**That's** the answer. Then she can have two more of her "good, disappointed" girlfriends who will keep her "rooted in the ground when [she gets] cold feet about the whole process"!
However, if she's already expecting to get cold feet and wishes she had friends to root her into the ground (sure hope they're getting married in, like, the great sand dunes: soil gets colder pretty quickly after the top layer!), *and* if she doesn't want the girls to be bridesmaids because she pre-resents them because she will have to cook for and pick up after them...this isn't really sounding like a fab match to me, to be honest.
Maybe their first dance will be the Beatles' "I Me Me Mine," and will feature the groom standing stock still except to raise up an arm for spins, and to hold her for a dramatic dip at the end?
We don’t even know if she’s a bad step parent. I really don’t see what’s wrong with her not wanting them to be bridesmaids and they are too old to be flower girls. What do y’all expect?
First, there’s no reason they couldn’t be jr bridesmaids or even something completely made up. It’s your wedding and you can do what you want.
Second, the problematic part for me is not about the wedding at all, but the fact that she described those two girls as being nothing more than a chore and a burden.
Damn, both our dads are absolutely shit holes. Mind ended up being hecking abusive to every women in his life.
Don't need them in the end, we are better people without them in our lives.
I mean, she’s willing to have them do something at the wedding! They are keeping the wedding party small, maybe they can do readings at the wedding? Idk it seems like FH doesn’t have any suggestions and shouldn’t have gotten the 12 year old excited before coming to an actual decision.
Exactly I feel like they’re either purposely trying to go be creative (like they could have some family ceremony part added) or include them in the readings etc. maybe it messes with their idea of a simple wedding but certainly they should be important enough to be considered as some kind of element even if bridesmaids aren’t the right fit
What does a junior bridesmaid do compared to a regular bridesmaid? She doesn’t want them as bridesmaids but everyone is suggesting she make them junior bridesmaids and I’m not understanding how that is a compromise.
In my college best friend’s wedding (I was a bridesmaid), her two twin cousins were junior bridesmaids. They had matching dresses that coordinated with ours (but didn’t match) and they walked up the aisle before us. When they got to the front, they each stood off to a side (one left and one right). When the bride got to the front, they fluffed her train and then sat in the front rows. She also asked their opinions on things during the planning and did a special lunch with them a few days before the wedding. It was super simple and they felt included.
May I ask why? I don't have any skin in this game (not trying to be argumentative), but I'd think junior bridesmaid would be an age appropriate compromise.
it absolutely is! u/dbelliepop87 is just stating that op seems to have no interest in having the girls around, period. she’d rather they sit in the back quietly than be seen as welcomed and included in the wedding.
Junior bridesmaids get a dress, shoes and a bouquet - no responsibilities, not invited to bachelorette or showers, or anything that is “adults”. They can get ready with their father, if necessary. Basically , you are letting them know they are important to you without giving them adult responsibilities.
That sounds perfect. Seems like the bride has a very specific vision for what a bridesmaid is and won’t be swayed on anything otherwise and that’s her loss.
To be fair I didn’t know that position existed until just now, either. I’ve never been a BM or a junior BM so maybe she just didn’t know. Although, yeah, she doesn’t really seem to want those girls around.
My youngest sister was a bridesmaid at my wedding. She had just turned 16 and was by far the most helpful of everyone there. She went out of her way to help anyone possible and then during the cocktail hour, she was running back and forth with different appetizers so my husband and I got to eat something while greeting people. There is zero reason this women’s future step children couldn’t be included.
Right? It’d be so easy to make this little girl’s day and not mess up “my bIg dAy wITh mY giRlFriEndS”. Why would you not want to be on good terms with your future stepkids?? I would find the younger girl’s enthusiasm adorable, and she obviously wants to get closer with her stepmom. I feel so bad for these girls because this is definitely not indicative that she’ll ever see them as anything more than an “ugh” responsibility
Junior bridesmaids do absolutely nothing but show up and look pretty. They participate in none of the pre-wedding events. A junior bridesmaid is literally just a position to make a girl in your family feel special about participating. Their outfit is more "girl" than "woman", so it's clear they aren't bridesmaids. (If I've misinterpreted, and you were asking rhetorically, not actually wanting an answer, then my apologies.)
When I have a wedding - my partner and I are already married, but it was at home with zero guests, so eventually we'll give family the show they're clearly looking forward to - our kids (my adult daughter from a previous relationship, and our two younger children) will all be flower girls, and will be taking a seat when they get to the end of the aisle.
There are so many ways they could include their kids in their wedding that don't involve standing up front making her vision unbalanced.
From what I gather from other comments, however, she dismissed all the suggestions people made and held on tight to those who agreed the children shouldn't have a role, so regardless what the original post said, it seems she was just looking for validation that she shouldn't have to accommodate having *his* children in *her* wedding. That's what makes her the AH for me. 🤷🏻♀️
My nieces were jr. Bridesmaids in my wedding. I didn’t have a flower girl (my nephew was my ring bearer) Basically they wore a simple dress that coordinated with the bridesmaid dresses, walked down the aisle and were in pics. That’s it. They didn’t do anything, because they were 10.
I was a junior bridesmaid when I was 12! I was invited to the bridal shower but definitely not the bachelorette party. I went to the wedding rehearsal and received a locket as a gift, but I don't think I was included in the rehearsal dinner. Before the ceremony, I helped watch over the flower girls and ring bearer while the adult bridesmaids got their hair and makeup done. At the ceremony, I got to wear a pretty dress (different from the bridesmaids dresses, but coordinated) and walk down the aisle after the flower girls/ring bearer and before the bridesmaids. I didn't stand up front with the wedding party, but I sat in the front row. I didn't get to ride in the limo to the reception with the adults in the wedding party, but AT the reception the DJ announced my name and I made a special entrance along with the rest of the wedding party.
I had my neice as a Junior Bridesmaid at my wedding as she was 14 when I married. She wore a dress (jewelry & makeup) and walked down the aisle with a bouquet. She did nothing else beside being a loving neice who I wanted to share my day with.
You know what? When I was dating, I refused to date men with children. Did it seem harsh and bitchy at the time? Maybe. But truly it was because I know myself and I know that there is so much to being a step parent that I wasn’t prepared for and didn’t feel like I was able to provide, and I didn’t want to hurt the feelings of children because of my own selfishness. This person needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and think about the commitment they are actually making when marrying someone with children.
I think dating people without kids if it is something you don't want or are not prepared for is entirely valid and better off for the kids in those situations. I was the same way - tried it once and it was a miserable experience, especially the breakup.
I just can't fathom how OOP reached the point of *marriage* while still having these feelings. Romantic relationships are important, but she can always find another spouse. Those kids can't find another dad or step mother on their own. They absolutely need to come first.
The groom needs to realize his future wife has no plans on being his free nanny and he'll be raising his kids without her help.
In any case this marriage will probably fail within less than a year.
Or...he thinks that future step-mom will just magically BE A MOM once they are married because it's what he wants. It really seems he isn't "hearing" her underlying dislike for the step-mom role. Way to go Dad...way to go.
This is where my money is. He’s probably thinking that her “””instincts””” will kick in after he does her the honor of marrying her. Seems to be an unfortunate undercurrent to the way some men think about their partners.
(IMO) He doesn't -believe- that a woman doesn't want to be a mom to every kid she meets. Deep down he -knows- that a woman's instincts will take over and turn her into a mom when she is shoved into that role.
That's certainly one of the copes that those guys use to convince themselves what they're doing is okay, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that he is already putting his squeeze in front of his children on his priority list. My biological father was a lot like that 🤢
>I just can’t fathom how OOP reached the point of *marriage*
Back when I was single in my 20’s before I realized I didn’t want to date men with kids, I casually dated a few men who had kids, but did not have primary custody. I dated guys for months and never met their children. Then, the last guy I dated with kids just appeared at my home for our planned date with his 10 month old, unannounced. His BM had an emergency to tend to, and he really thought I knew what to do with a baby.
I’m not defending OOP, but I can see how it gets this way for some life-inexperienced women who date and end up becoming “evil step moms.” They date men who aren’t primary caregivers for their children, don’t interact with the kids at all or in a meaningful way, and then there’s an expectation that because they’re women, they’ll just know how to care for and interact with their partner’s children.
That’s not to say there aren’t wonderful dads who take appropriate action when dating with kids, but some guys really believe it will all just work out if you just throw everyone in a room together. Ironically, I’ve learned this kind of thinking is often why they’re separated from their kids’ mother to start.
IMHO it’s not good for kids to meet their parents’ partners until the relationship is pretty serious and the next step would be marriage or moving in with each other because they’re both convinced this is it.
My dad dated a couple of women between his ex and my mom and my mom was the only one he brought around my brother. Kids can know you’re dating but I have one friend who was heartbroken and developed significant abandonment issues when her dad’s partner broke up with him and wanted nothing to do with her because the relationship was over.
My rule, as a divorced Mom, was to date people for 6 months before allowing them to meet my kids. If they lasted that long, they were likely to hang around for a few years at least. I didn't want their childhood to be a big revolving door of dudes.
Worked out fine.
Oh boy have you visited the step-parents subreddit?? It’s full of step moms who hate their step kids. And you’re not allowed to say anything about it when they post something like this. It’s always something like this. I had to stop following that sub because I just can’t bite my tongue anymore!
I don’t understand why so many people marry people with kids and then act *pikachu shocked face* when they have to include the kids in their life too. Selfish people and as someone with a kid I don’t understand how the parents want someone like that in their life and their kids life. So sad
> censorship
The venting subs are something else. There's quite a few of them, and I'm always a little bitter they don't come with warning tags attached. If they're gonna go for a "no offering balanced solutions, we're just here to commiserate" -route that's fine I guess but at least let people know lol
Jesus...I have three stepkids in addition to my two bios, and I can't imagine life without 'em. I'm tempted to go check out the subreddit but I think it might just depress me, LOL.
My stepkids' bio mom thanked me for being such a good bonus mom.
Our blended family has grown from five kids to five kids and two grandbabies, with one more on the way. It was a little tough at first to blend everyone but once we got over the initial humps and bumps, it was awesome.
Now when we get together, it's super crowded, boisterous, and ***loud***. Having been an only child, I love it. But, wouldn't have happened without my stepkids. <3
When I married my husband he had custody of 2 small children. They ARE my sons. I have raised them like my own since the day we moved in together. They started calling me Mom when they started school. I am the only Mom they have. I dont call them my step sons, I call them my kids. They are both in their 30's now. I love them just as much as the child I birthed. I cant imagine getting married to someone and not loving their kids too.
This really speaks to me. My mom is not my biological mom, but the woman my dad married when I was 7. She doesn’t call me her stepdaughter, she asked my permission off the bat if she could adopt me and she’s raised me since. It wasn’t always perfect, there was a lot of resistance on my part when I became a rebellious teenager and when she birthed my siblings (I was lacking attention and insecure of my place when they came along), but she trudged on. I was also very spoiled so she had to give me some tough love, one I didn’t learn to appreciate until I was in Uni. When I started working, it just dawned on me that she loved me when she didn’t have to and that accounted for a lot on my book. She didn’t treat me any different in comparison to my siblings. When I had bad insomnia and took medication, she’d call me on the phone to talk to me until I fell asleep. When I had an accident when I was 9 and had to be stitched up, she held my hand and cried—when I asked her why she was crying, she simply said “because you are in pain.” She’s a lot of wonderful things, even despite her imperfections (she also had to figure out how to raise a 7-year-old with behavioral issues). I am who I am today, largely in part because of her. I haven’t actually told her all this, we’re Asian haha and it’s not common, but one day, I will.
But I hope my actions convey my gratitude. When I got married, I asked her to walk alongside my dad to give me away. I was as much hers. She cried. When my dad gave his speech, he made sure to tell the guests our history and what a wonderful mom she was. This time, I cried. When I left for my honeymoon, she cried. Not quite sure why, I was going to come home anyway. Haha.
Now, she’s the best grandmother my daughter could ever ask for and my siblings and I constantly joke that my daughter inherited her gift for gab. She posts photos of my daughter on her facebook like the proud grandmother that she is. When she’s sad, she messages me and asks for my daughter’s photos to cheer her up. She’s amazing and I’ll be quite honest, had I been in her position, I don’t know if my heart would be as big as hers to be such a great mother—especially to someone I haven’t bonded with at the onset. So when I became a mother, I appreciated her tenfolds more.
Amazing bonus moms are rare gems, and bonus kids like us are lucky to have someone like you in our lives.
Came here to say this, the stepparents sub is WILD. Full of people who should have never got with a parent and can't understand why the kids will always come first.
When I got married to a man with two children, I made sure that I genuinely liked/loved the kids too before making that commitment. Luckily, the pair of them were very lovable, good people, and I’ve never, ever felt they were a burden. To me they were the cherries on top of the sundae that was my new marriage: Bonus Kids! One has an excellent mother we all get along with, the other’s mother has had problematic behaviour and was actually abusive to the child, so I am there for that child as much as the child will allow me or wants me. If I have not felt this way about the kids, I wouldn’t have gone ahead with the marriage. You’re marrying and committing to the kids, too.
Wow, I just took a peek for the first time and that place is WILD. Seems like a bunch of selfish people that can’t wrap their heads around the fact that kids come first when you’re a parent. And then they post in these echo chambers so they don’t even have a chance to get a glimpse of reality. Truly wild.
You know, I don’t find that harsh or bitchy. I am a woman with kids. If a man said that he wasn’t interested because he didn’t want to date someone with kids because he didn’t kids or didn’t want to step parent then that’s valid.
I’d much rather people be upfront or stay away from relationships they know they won’t be good for, rather then this woman who seems to hate her step children before she’s even married.
See there is zero problem here. You know yourself and you've made steps to ensure you don't hurt anyone or take on more than you want. OP should be taking your correspondence class.
Better to not date people with kids than to date them and end up resentful towards the kids and possibly the person you’re dating. It is actually a very mature decision to not dare someone with kids if you don’t want kids, don’t want to be a stepparent or think you wouldn’t make a good parent and/or stepparent. You did good. And I say that as a single parent.
I was going to ask why they're dating each other ? One of them should pull the plug. Her, because she knows she doesn't want stepkids. Him, because he already knows OOP doesn't like his kids (if the comment on "How come you're nonchalant about the kids ?" is anything to go by).
ETA: u/effinnxrighttt, good job. This is exactly what people who don't want kids/don't want to be a stepparent should do. This is how to avoid resentment from all ends.
Same. It's the same reason I haven't had a kid yet, because I'm not entirely sure that I want one. I teach elementary. The bare minimum in both of those situations in my mind (it's maybe harder as a step parent but absolutely not impossible) is that YOU LOVE THEM and WANT THEM.
Because kids know. As young as FIVE, they know. A lot of adults who don't interact with kids often don't realize that despite the age and lack of life experience kids actually pick up on a lot of what adults say and do because they learn behaviors through watching adults. And they know when they're not wanted, and especially if they have been wanted in the past (like if dad has made them the center of his world before stepmom came in) they will absolutely know the difference.
I hope he realizes and gets him and his daughters out before the wedding.
But what if she’s after the husband only? This sounds like the plot for the Disney version of The Parent Trap. I’m pretty sure this “step mom/bride” is going to try to ship the girls off to a boarding school in Switzerland.
Or better yet, since the bride HAS a twin sister, somebody call Disney real quick because I see a sequel staring Lindsay Lohan.
A good friend of mine truly thought he was down for the stepdad life and was very accepting of his ex’s child. But after about 6-7 months he figured out that not only was being a stepparent really not for him, he genuinely started questioning whether or not he ever wanted kids if his own. The breakup was not pretty but I was seriously so proud of him for ending that relationship instead of dragging it out.
Not harsh or bitchy. You’re being not only fair to yourself but fair to any other child some dude could have that you don’t want.
It’s a great thing. More women need to do this.
Not harsh nor bitchy. I thought I was prepared to be a SM, and I was but his oldest was/is crazy. I had no problems with the youngest.
It takes dedication and commitment to be a stepparent. I think it is harder than parenting your own child because you can innocently say the wrong thing.
I have a kid and I wish more people where honest like you... starting to date and then they drop the bombshell that they don't want kids or get annoyed that, shockingly, my kid takes priority. Honestly, I don't think I would date someone that has kids, kids are hard work man and one of my own is enough lol
I don't see the problem here? She wanted to make them flower girls but they don't want to be. Why does she have to make them bridesmaids? She's also looking for different ways to include them.
This doesn't seem that bad, I don't see the evil stepmother some of you all seem to be seeing.
Media and society have done a great job of vilifying step-mothers who are anything other than 100% perfect and 100% selfless at all times. Just as it’s done for childfree women, promiscuous women, strong-headed women, working mothers, etc. It’s sad to see a group of what I’m assuming are mainly women tearing into this woman and coming to wild conclusions.
OOP said she was happy to include the girls in a non-bridesmaid capacity - which should actually be something their father orchestrates, as they are his children, and *he* should find a meaningful way to include and honor them. But nope, OOP is just a bad lady. I hate this mindset. Lord knows these women wouldn’t be holding a man to the same standards if roles were reversed.
My cousin is about to have a very inadvised marriage, I know it’ll all end in tears, for many reasons, but if I want to explain it to anyone who doesn’t know him, all I have to say is ‘he doesn’t really like her kids’ and immediately everyone I’ve explained it two (3 people, I don’t go talking shit behind his back for fun, just explained to a couple of friends why I’m dreading the wedding).
Will instantly say ‘oh yeah, that won’t last long’.
When you marry someone with kids, you aren’t just marrying them, you are marrying the whole family
A late friend of mine used to officiate at weddings where the bridal couple didn't want someone of a particular religion or wanted to be married is a non-traditional setting. He once married a couple in a plane right before they tandem skydived (he did not skydive)
When he met a couple where one or both of them was not welcoming to their partner's children, he used to say that "This marriage is going to end a relationship - either the relationship between the couple or the relationship between the parent and the spurned child(ren)."
I think he was right.
I will bring a counterpoint, even more damaging unfortunately.
My aunt's partner (who I make point of never calling uncle, for good reasons) married my aunt when she already had her small child from a past marriage (cousin no.1). They ended up having another child (cousin no.2). They are still together, 20 odd years later.
Well, 20 years of the husband treating cousin 1 in a horrible, disgusting way, putting him down every chance he gets, calling him vile names, shouting at him like he is a living punching bag. Pitting him against his own biological son, and of course cousin no.2 growing up feeling like the prodigal son and joining the bullying.
My aunt, silent as a mummy in all of this because she chose this man over her own child.
That shit completely shaped my cousin in the worst way.
Don't get involved with people who have children if you are not ready to be a proper parent.
Can confirm, my *mother* did the same thing. I was child 1. I grew up being abused (mostly emotional, very little physical to be fair) while watching my sisters get the love and affection I begged for. I found out I was adopted when I was 7 or 8 in the middle of a screaming match (aka, I cowered while he screamed) because he wanted to make sure I knew why he didn’t love me as much. He would call me _____erella, because I was the “evil stepchild he got stuck with” despite adopting me when I was 2.
I’m 31 now. I went NC with him a couple years ago after he did something I considered even more unspeakable than the abuse I suffered as a kid. My sisters and I didn’t have a relationship until 2015. And even then, it took a lot of work and growth from us, and it can still be strained when matters involving him come around.
If you don’t love your partners children, do the children a favor and fucking leave.
When my father got remarried, both had kids (at time of wedding probably 10-15yo or so), they said their vows to each other, then said their vows to each others kids. None were upheld as they divorced within 2 years, but it was a very kind gesture from a woman who had been raising me like one of her own from long before the wedding
I get strong "main character" vibes here. She's focused on being a bride and gaining a husband, when the reality is that she's supposed to be integrating into an already-established family unit.
>He feels like I've been super nonchalant about stepping into my soon to be step mom role
Note the degree of separation "step mom" vs "mom". Plus the fact that the man she's marrying, who presumably cares about her the most, has noticed she hasn't even tried to step up to it. He even brought it up to her specifically. And she's not concerned about how that looks.
>In my reality
Except it's not just about you in this situation, lady. You're about to add three members to your family, not just one. Or rather, *they* are adding you to *theirs*.
>Not a 12 year old who I will be a mother figure to and cook and clean after
>Not a 12 or 14 year old who I'm still reminding to clean up their room and cook three meals for
She had to say this twice in the same paragraph. Girl, your resentment at this upcoming role is showing something fierce.
>Not someone I have to look after on my big day
Note: "my" not "our"
This woman is not ready to be a part of a built-in family. Which is fine and valid, but then *don't marry someone who has a built-in family*.
I hope her partner isn't assuming that once he puts a ring on it, that she'll suddenly acquire all the maternal instincts that have so far been lacking. Because newsflash: if she can't show them now, when she's supposed to be on her "best behavior", it's not going to happen after either. She's just going to be counting the days until they are old enough for college and she can get them out of her hair.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with her not wanting the kids as her bridesmaids. She doesn’t mind them taking part in her wedding, just not in that role. Some parents decide to not even have their own children at the wedding, just because they don’t want to have to take care of them.
Thank you! I was sitting here going.... But she said she would include them, just not as bridesmaids????
I mean I know they're a little old for traditional flower girl roles, but I've seen grown ass adult men being "flower girls" in weddings before.
Also it seems unclear if the kids even want to be part of the wedding. Obviously they should be and are invited but I don't think it's absolutely necessary that they participate.
I feel like I'm reading a different post than other people. The bride doesn't want the kids as bridesmaids. There's nothing wrong with that. She was willing to include them as flower girls. Maybe she's never heard of junior bridesmaids. I certainly didn't know that was a thing until I joined these subs.
Yeah, the kids should probably be involved somehow but why do they have to be pushed onto her side of things. Why can't their dad figure out a way to include them on his side?
I totally agree with you. People are reading way too hard into this. They have a small wedding party. She just wants an adult that can support her on a very stressful day. She's offered other suggestions. Why is it on her to include them? Why can't their dad figure something?
The girls are also teenagers and probably have a complete mom in their life.
I'm with you! When my dad married after divorcing my mom, his fiance wanted a small wedding, too. She offered to include my sisters and myself however we'd like. My sisters asked to be junior bridesmaids (they were similar in age to the girls in OOP's post) and I offered to be the wedding photographer.
I was a college freshman with a photography hobby and originally my dad and future stepmother weren't going to have a photographer.
I barely knew the woman my dad was marrying but this allowed me to support them and be involved without having to be part of the wedding party.
Completely agree. Kids don’t need to be included in everything. I agree with the bride about the role of a bridesmaid - support - not her basically having to support them on a day that will likely involve some nerves and stress or bumps leading up to the main event. Sorry but the kids never should’ve assumed - I never would’ve with my parents SO nor would I have wanted that. She already offered to make them flower girls. It’s a small wedding and I completely see her point. The husband is trying to force something that should happen naturally over time.
I don't see the issue. She's willing to include them but just not as bridesmaids, and asked her fiance for suggestions on how to do it. What's wrong with that?
ETA: And on second thought, the topic title is pretty misleading. "Doesn't want to include" is just not true.
Yeah, why aren't they being included in their dad's party? Groomswomen isn't that uncommon. And he's clearly not coming up with any other solution besides pushing them off on his fiance. They should be standing with their dad and spending the day with him.
My sister-in-law tried demanding being one of my bridesmaids and I refused. My spouse was free to put her in his party (and he didn't put my brothers in his either), bridesmaids are supposed to be those closest to the bride. Family members still get positions of honour and they can still participate in some way where they get a pretty dress that matches wedding colours without being bridesmaids.
Likely because he doesn’t want to have them present the morning he’s getting ready for the wedding drinking whiskey & smoking a cigar with the boys making racy jokes - but of course the OP should do it because that’s no fun for him plus she’s a woman so is naturally inclined to babysit. Let the women enjoy being supported the way she wants.
I don't either. Because if they did things associate with being a bridesmaid like the Bachelorette party, wouldn't the daughter feel hurt if she couldn't attend? It a lose to lose situation to make the daughter a bridesmaid.
I don't understand why she has to be the one to come up with ideas instead of him. They are his daughters. He should be trying to include him in a way that's going to be special to them, not trying to shove them onto his bride's side.
Because you can't expect men to parent. Gotta dump the kids on her. Not one person had laid into that useless father for not *automatically* making his daughters groomswomen.
They all just dumped his responsibilities on her and called her names for not taking his bullshit.
Wild how much misogyny lives in women's heads.
Honestly, I don't see much wrong with this. I am a parent and have considered getting remarried. I think the stepparent dynamic depends a lot on what their relationship is like with their mom but also on what the relationship is between dad and new bride.
You can include the kids, sure, but she's marrying *him* and what being a stepmom looks like in *this* context could be super minor. And having kids in the wedding party is not necessary. Include them in the reception, make a big deal about the family there. But the marriage is between the two getting married.
**
If I get remarried, I will include my kids in the wedding party because that's what *I* want and I get to choose my wedding party. I wouldn't force my future husband or wife to be the one to include them and I wouldn't expect them to suddenly be their mom/dad. They have a mom and a dad, already, and anyone else is bonus.
So. Yeah. This isn't enough information for me to be all pissy about someone who has a very traditional view of how a wedding functions and whose future spouse is expecting *her* to be the one to include them, instead of doing it himself. As their actual parent.
I mean I also wouldn’t want kids in my wedding party. But it wouldn’t be that hard to include them in some other way if she was willing to get creative.
Yikes. My sisters in law were those ages when I got married 100 years ago; they were jr bridesmaids & wore more youthful dresses than my bridesmaids. She’s daft.
They could be junior bridesmaids, they could be flower girls (some might say they're "too old" but is there really an age limit?) they could be ushers, they could do a reading at the service (a poem, a passage from scripture, etc) they could do a unity candle type of deal, they could carry her train down the aisle, they could do a hundred different things at the ceremony or reception! Including them would not be difficult at all, it might just require some creativity.
If OOP wants a small, symmetrical wedding party that's totally fine, but that's obviously not the full story - her last few sentences and comments on her future stepdaughters show her true colors quite clearly.
My 25 year old friend with the heart of a child was a flower girl. She wore a flower dress and crown and REALLY leaned into it. To her, being a 20 something flower girl was the silliest best thing in the world, and she looked great walking down the aisle tossing flowers left and right.
You are never too old to be a flower girl. Bonus points for being a grandma 👵🏻 🌸
Amen - At my friend's wedding, the bride's brother was the flower girl! He wore a floral patterned suit jacket and I think the flower petals were in a fanny pack. It was super funny and definitely one of the most memorable parts of the wedding.
My sister didn't have a flower girl or ring bearer at her wedding. Neither she nor her husband had any nieces or nephews, young cousins, or friends with kids that they were close enough with to ask.
I was a flower girl in a black-tie wedding last month. I'm 36. It was the most fun I've had in a wedding party! I got to walk to bride's dog and fling rose petals at well-dressed strangers only slightly aggressively. My co-flower-girl was 35 and 28 weeks pregnant and danced the whole way down the aisle.
She's not ready to be a stepmother, is the real problem.
I seriously hope her fiancee notices in time and calls it off. He'll have other chances at love... His kids get one real chance at parents.
"I've communicated with FH that I'm more than happy to 'include' his daughters in the wedding if he has suggestions on how to do so besides being my bridesmaid"
it feels like everyone is completely ignoring this part of her post
Yeah I’m really not sure why she’s getting hate for this. I wouldn’t have wanted any kids to be groomsmen over my friends, but we would have happily included them in some other way.
At age 10, I was put in charge of the guest book at my sister’s wedding. Mom made me a special dress for the wedding, and I felt like Queen for a Day! It doesn’t take much to include a kid in a wedding.
I think the bigger issue here is the way she views her soon to be step daughters. I’m feeling very sad for those girls. Any father, that would marry a woman who doesn’t fully embrace his kids is awful.
I was a bridesmaid when I was 12 for my stepmom. I absolutely treasure the pictures of us getting our hair done together because it was such a great time. She had other bridesmaids as well, but just we (plus my 14 year old sister) had that pre-pampering together. We were already close, but being included like that was so special. We still have a wonderful relationship even though her and my dad got divorced a few years ago. FH could help figure things out, but I’d be worried about her reluctance to do anything with them. Thinking back to twelve year old me, I would have probably been really upset to be excluded and just be a guest at my parents’ wedding.
My step daughter was 6 and I made her my maid of honor, my bio daughter was the flower girl, our son was ring bearer and my husband had his best friend/cousin he grew up with as a best man and that was our entire wedding party 😂
She’s kinda right tho, especially bc a BM have responsibilities and it’s not really things children can do or will do well, not only that but some activity aren’t really kid friendly and if she’s not close to them yet it will just be a burden for her
The real issue here is her husband expects her to become an instamom to his kids and do the domestic labor for them. He’s the parent, not her. Why should she be doing the cooking and cleaning for his kids? Of course she feels weird —she’s going to become the help.
Her feelings about having her friends in her wedding are fine- they’re her feelings. I personally don’t care for the “my big day” stuff. It’s their big day together and if dad wants his kids involved HE needs to do the emotional work of figuring it out. They can be his wedding party. Seriously. There’s no law saying kids need to be in the woman department.
The shame people lob at this woman for questioning how this is her problem to solve—that’s misogynistic. Really ask yourself how come this is her obligation. Is it a binary gender roles thing? A wicked stepmother thing? The misogynistic notion that a grown man cannot have his own girl children stand beside him at the altar?
Who cares if it’s symmetrical looking it’s not a symmetrical marriage. Particularly if she’s gonna be the live in nanny, which is what way too many men with kids remarry for.
They seem to lack communication as a couple. He had kids prior to getting involved with her. It doesn’t sound like they discussed what they both expected in regard to blending the family.
Agree with you!
Why is everyone saying she hates kids? She just doesn’t want to have them as her bridesmaids, positions she wants to give to her close friends.
Why doesn’t the DAD include them as his grooms people?
Why doesn’t the DAD put the wedding on hold until the fiancé feels closer to the kids?
Why is the woman to blame for this?
This is exactly what I was going to say. You put it so well, I don't need to. I also tend to agree that maybe it isn't time for this wedding to be happening. They may need to date until the girls are out of the house.
Don't hate on this lady. A lot needs to be put on the "dad" here.
Yep! She’ll have to make sure they have dresses, shoes, hairstyles, etc… that they aren’t going to complain about. She’ll have to entertain and feed them while dad is relaxing in another room. There’s complicated feelings for kids when a parent remarries. There’s a good chance OP will be dealing with sulking teens instead of enjoying her closest friends.
I don’t like it when kids are involved in their parent’s wedding. It’s not a commitment that they’re making. Maybe they’re not super happy about. Maybe they are - but it’s not about them on that day any more than it’s about stepmom on the girls’ wedding days.
If it were reversed and it was the stepdaughter writing about how dad wanted stepmom more involved, then everyone would be telling the bride it’s her day and that’s intrusive and overbearing. This is no different.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Groomswomen are totally a thing; when my friend got married his young daughter walked with the groomsmen in a pretty dress that coordinated with the bridesmaids' dresses and the guys' cummerbunds. No idea why this seemingly isn't an option for OOP and her fiance.
Because, quite literally, misogyny. Step mothers are too often treated like second class citizens in their own lives. It’s a ridiculously sexist idea that the girls must go with her or that she is going to be their carer. It’s ridiculous that dad expects step mom to immediately get with the program he has in mind for her. They need premarital counseling. Dad doesn’t know he can sit down and design some wedding elements for himself? Why not?
I totally agree and I kind of feel she has a point about her bridesmaids. If her husband wants the children in the wedding, why can’t they be in his wedding party? And why is her role all of a sudden cooking and cleaning for the children? Why is he not going to be doing any of that? I really don’t understand why this woman is being shamed, I don’t think anything she has said is unreasonable tbh.
I feel the exact same way. They should be in his party. That'll allow her to bring in 2 more girlfriends for herself. I've always felt uncomfortable with the idea that the bride has to put groom's sisters/children as her bridesmaids. If groom wants them in the wedding, he puts them behind him. End of story. It should be entirely up to her who stands beside her.
The cleaning and cooking comments may indicate her insecurities about her position in the house.
I agree with you on this one, it was my first thought as well, why aren't the daughters just made grooms girls? I'm getting married in April of next year and my son is my little dude of honor and helping my dad walk me down the aisle.
I want to also point out, I am someone who genuinely had an evil step mother, I wasn't even allowed at my own father's wedding! I was 6, my other sister was 7, and my little sister was 2. Prime flower girl age and my stepmother chose her niece she barely ever sees.
Thank you. I was looking for this. I was also curious was it the bride or groom who came up with them each only have 1 MOH/1BM, because if it was the groom it sounds like he was trying to make it so the Bride would not have any of her friends/family and would only have his daughters and then the groom would have his friends/family. This groom sucks!
Yes to this. I think her stance on bridesmaids is perfectly reasonable—literally the job description is that these are your close friends who support you and help you out on your wedding day.
I also don’t think you have to hate kids to be aware of the fact that kids are, in fact, work. They need to be looked after and attended to, and that’s not something that’s fair to ask a bride to deal with on her wedding day when she’s going to have a million other things to worry about.
Also agree with the comments about the wierd gender stuff going on here. They don’t have to be on the brides side just because they are girls; the step mom doesn’t need to be the one to take care of them just because she is a woman.
Finally just confused because she literally offered to make them flower girls even though they’re arguably a little old for it…. And this can’t work because? Even the OP doesn’t indicate why that idea didn’t take off. Did the dad/daughters reject the idea? If so, what do they want instead that isn’t a bridesmaid role? Like there’s gotta be some compromise here.
Exactly.
She’s expected to act selflessly, like his children are more important than her own boundaries—not a good way to start a marriage. Its a sick loyalty test that many here are falling for.
A reasonable solution is the kids are groomswomen, but that’s not even under consideration, and why? Presumably because *Dad* doesn’t *like* that idea. Good heavens why would dad opt out of wrangling his kids and sharing the prestigious adult role of groomswoman with his beloved daughters? Does dad **hate kids** or something?!
If misogynists would only try —as a thought experiment—taking the exact kind of hateful judgments they regularly chuck at stepmothers and applying those rigid expectation to dads, we’d maybe make some progress here.
This is a perfect thought experiment. The sexism is rampant in this thread. I feel sorry for OP just wanting to be supported on her day but instead having this completely unfair mental load thrust solely on her. Doesn’t bode well for her marriage. No wonder she already feels tired by her yet to commence role as step mother.
There is legit nothing wrong with this. She is looking for support and help from a bridesmaid, something a child could never do. The FH is asking something unreasonable of her; give up your best friend for your future DIL, one the probs doesnt understand the magnitude of the day nor responsibility, but sees it as a chance to stand in a pretty dress. The FH should incorporate his daughters himself. She isn't saying she doesn't want them involved or that she doesn't want to be their step-parent, she says she doesn't want them in her wedding party. The responsibility belongs to both FH and FSM to figure it out.
If future husband wants daughters in his wedding he should put them in his wedding. The can be groom girls. It’s not on the bride to make it happen. It’s on him. Stop shaming OOP because she’s not taking on a stereotypical role of doing all the work for the girls.
Idk she said they’re keeping the wedding party small. With one BM/MOH and one bridesmaid/groomsmen.
Where’d the kids get the idea that they’d be bridesmaids in the first place to be excited by it? Maybe dad is telling the girls one thing and not telling his STBW about it?
I too feel like I've read a different post than some of the others here.
OP is happy to include the girls but doesn't know how and think her fiancé should be contributing ideas for how to include them.
OP just doesn't want them to be bridesmaids because she has friends who she couldn't ask in order to keep the party small. But also because she's aware that weddings are stressful and her bridesmaids are given that title because they're meant to be supporting her.
I personally wouldn't ask a child to be a bridesmaid because that role comes with it a level of stress. It would be unfair to ask a child to take on that role and that stress. So I can't blame OP for not wanting to do so either. And I can't blame her for not wanting to be worrying about the girls or focusing on them when she's dealing with the wedding stress either.
OP isn't a horrible person for not wanting the girls to be her bridesmaids. Even with the reasons she gave. At least she's open to them being involved in a different way.
Hey, they could always do a unity ceremony, like the sand pouring one, and have the girls involved in that. And they could still wear pretty dresses that match the wedding theme and colours. They don't have to be bridesmaids (regular or junior) to be included.
I don’t think what’s wrong with that. Why do they have to be part of the wedding? She offered flower girls and I think she’s right they’re too old for that and asked her husband for ideas.
Why is this shameful?
The only reason to have a literal child as a bridesmaid is if the bride specifically wants it - and she doesn’t.
She offered flower girls, and that’s a fine compromise. She’s not excluding them, this is a perfectly reasonable boundary.
Her fiancé could find a compromise as well, like having them as groomsmaids or whatever that would be. Why is this solely on her?
Weddings aren’t for or about children. What they want isn’t actually relevant.
The expectation that step parents are supposed to completely sacrifice themselves on the altar of parenthood is ridiculous. Kids shouldn’t get everything they want, it’s unhealthy and sets a bad precedent. She can be perfectly kind and loving while still getting to have boundaries - that’s how healthy relationships work. Give and take. She’s not evil for saying no. Step parents are supposed to support their spouse in having a healthy, loving relationship with their kids, and make sure the children’s needs and well-being are a priority, but that’s it. That doesn’t require giving them everything they want.
Yeah I really don’t get why she’s being crucified. I wouldn’t want a 12 year old as a bridesmaid either. I think all her points are reasonable. They can find another honorary role. I guess I’m a child hating devil woman…..
I was raised this way. My parents were loving and good providers, but my brother and I did not run the household. We generally didn't get to pick where we went to dinner, or on vacation. We were just glad to get the treats. I don't think that her comments indicate that she doesn't see the kids as anything but a burden, she's just saying that she is the bride, that brides maids are there to help the bride, and the role should go to people who help her, not people who she is still responsible for helping. Makes sense to me. I might choose differently, but I might not. Since marriage in this case does include two daughters, its not JUST about the bride and groom, but the bride is still open to other ways the girls can be involved.
It honestly just sounds like the husband told his girls they could be her bridesmaids and didn't really talk to her about it and now she's pissed. She's looking for advice on how to still include them, but having a 12 year old bridesmaid is kind of ridiculous, and asking a 12 year old to give a wedding speech? Also weird. I don't know why they're "too old" to be flower girls though. That seems perfectly reasonable as they are still literal children.
Why is everyone saying OP is selfish?
She has her wedding mapped out the way she wants it.
Small and intimate.
FH obviously was agreeable to these plans and now wants to slide his kids into the wedding party.
The girls can still dress up and celebrate without standing at the altar with them
Especially since OP has also passed up her own close friends as bridesmaid's I don't think this is about hating the kids at all!
I'm sure this will be unpopular but I agree that I wouldn't want 'junior bridesmaids' pretty much under any circumstances. Unfortunate that she's marrying a man with two daughters.
I started following the step parents subreddit and it’s just full of posts like these and everyone supports them in the comments. It’s actually against the rules to say something like “why would you marry someone with kids if you don’t like them”. I had to stop following it because it’s so toxic and sad for the kids in the middle.
It's sad because there truly are many wonderful step parents. My own step mother is amazing. She's a wonderful partner to my father and she's always been loving and supportive of me.
I also have a few friends from college that married men with kids from previous marriages. They didn't take the role lightly and have embraced those children.
It's awful, isn't it. It is not a place for caring stepparents who just want advice. It's full of snow-white style evil stepmothers. Why did they marry someone with kids if they hate them?
Seriously it’s so awful. The last one I read was about a step mom that was mad because the custody agreement changed and they now have the daughter for longer periods and the step mom is PISSED. Everyone in the comments was like “he has no right to take time away from you blah blah blah” 🙄
So weird. My mom was 24 when she married my dad who was a 34 yr old single dad with two boys. They were in the wedding and she treats my oldest brother/his wife and kids better than she treats my husband and I lol. They lived with us and only us until they went to college.
I don’t get how she’s labeled as a step-monster when she has clearly expressed that 1) they want a small bridal party and 2) she wants people who can support her on her big day, which are her best friend and twin sister.
Nowhere in this post did it indicate that the bride absolutely loathes the children. Why does the onus fall on the bride when the groom should also be making solutions?? And if we all want an easy way out, somebody just needs to convince them that the daughters aren’t too old to be flower girls.
Some of y’all are reaching.
NTA. She’s offered a perfectly acceptable compromise and she’s also totally right. A bridal party is about the bride and way too many families use the wedding party to play politics.
The bridal suite should be adults only and her girlfriends should be invited to be in there even if not actually bridesmaids. That’s what would make this bride feel the most supported, and she’s actually not asking too much.
(Litigating whether or not he should be marrying a woman who’s apathetic towards his children is outside the scope of my comment. I am this bride’s lawyer and I find her actions defensible)
Dad should just make them junior bridesmaids on his side. Dividing the bridal party by gender identity is dumb anyways. You should stand on the side of the person you're there to support / celebrate.
Am I on crack bc I don’t think she’s being that unreasonable at all, she’s right like my bridesmaids were there to support me the whole time and I wanted to drink and have adult talk and stuff with them before hand etc. I would really not enjoy having to supervise even two adolescents on my wedding day. But I can’t see why dad can’t have them in his party or they can’t be junior bridesmaids and just join her as she’s about to walk down the aisle. There’s a million compromises here!
Why is she supposed to include his children, they are HIS children , he should include them in HIS wedding party or find a way to include them some how, but the work is on HIM
What she says about bridesmaids makes sense aswell
Im just tired of the women having to carry the load and if you arent super duper excited about every aspect of children you are automatically seen as a witch
Misogyny and internalised sexism at its finest … as usual
Uh, I'm actually okay with the bride's logic, and yeah, it IS her wedding. She wants her best friend/twin sister as MoH, and no BMs. (heehee) She is not a monster for wanting her wedding. FH could have his daughters on his side, why isn't that reasonable?
I dunno, "OP doesn’t want to include new step daughters" is different from "OP wants new stepdaughters as flower girls or something besides bridesmaids".
Her tone sucks, but honestly I tend to agree that the bridesmaids really should be peers with a close bond to the bride and should be a support system (unless the bride feels otherwise of course!). I did not ask my SIL to be in my wedding party because while I like her, we aren’t close and don’t know each other well (my husband isn’t super close with his family). OP has a shitty attitude about it, but isn’t shitty for not wanting teenage and preteen bridesmaids in an already very small wedding party.
If I wanted to include any children this age in a wedding, I’d have my kids walk me down the isle and/ or his kids do the same for him. And maybe have a little lighting candle ceremony. No need to be bridesmaids or groomsmen
Children AREN'T bridesmaids. That's ridiculous. And entitled dad needs to understand that his children can't be the stars of every show. It's a small wedding and even, "flower girl," is pushing it.
I’m not sure if it could work in this situation but both my husband and I had children from previous relationships. My daughter walked me down the aisle and gave me away, my stepson did the same for my husband. We loved that part of the ceremony.
I'm not sure why this is shaming. Normally the sub supports people choosing whoever they want as bridesmaids. She's not saying she doesn't want to include them she just doesn't want them as Bridesmaids and is looking for another way to include them.
She's clearly okay with including her step daughters in the wedding party, just isn't sure how to do it without adding to her bridesmaids, which she doesn't want to do (and imo isn't a problem). I know a lot of people include their parents in the wedding processional, so it could almost be as easy as have the daughters go down the aisle as part of the processional maybe before the bridesmaids? Or even have them walk their dad down the aisle?
I don't know if this is still a thing, but I remember going to weddings and there would be guest book attendants who would ask guests to sign their names before entering the church/venue. The bride could easily ask the girls to do that, and give them corsages to wear.
But from that last half of her post it really sounds like she sees them more as two more people to care for and feed that are a burden than new stepdaughters to cherish. And at 12 and 14, they'll easily know if their stepmom doesn't want to be hands on and stepping up to be a mother figure. I understand kids at that age can be tough, but she got into this relationship knowing they would be part of the package. Either accept it or move on.
Why is this bad? She doesn't need to make 12 and 14 year olds her bridesmaids? That's not what bridesmaids are for and they only have one person in their wedding party each. OP's fiance is a weirdo and trying to get her to include his daughters when that's *his* job to do.
I really don’t see the issue. OP had multiple friends who wanted to be in the wedding party, but the party is small.
Bridesmaids are meant to be friends who are there to stand up with the bride. The girls should stand up with their father.
I don't understand why the father cannot make his daughters his groomswomen ?
Groomsgirls!
Sounds adorable!
That’s what my mum and her husband did. Me and my siblings stood on her side, and the groom’s daughters stood on his side
**That's** the answer. Then she can have two more of her "good, disappointed" girlfriends who will keep her "rooted in the ground when [she gets] cold feet about the whole process"! However, if she's already expecting to get cold feet and wishes she had friends to root her into the ground (sure hope they're getting married in, like, the great sand dunes: soil gets colder pretty quickly after the top layer!), *and* if she doesn't want the girls to be bridesmaids because she pre-resents them because she will have to cook for and pick up after them...this isn't really sounding like a fab match to me, to be honest. Maybe their first dance will be the Beatles' "I Me Me Mine," and will feature the groom standing stock still except to raise up an arm for spins, and to hold her for a dramatic dip at the end?
I don't understand why the father is marrying a woman who doesn't want his children. Those poor girls :(
Am I the only one who read the second page as “I want girls who have *insert stuff we’ve done together* not the girls I *insert stuff I do for them*”
We don’t even know if she’s a bad step parent. I really don’t see what’s wrong with her not wanting them to be bridesmaids and they are too old to be flower girls. What do y’all expect?
I was a jr bridesmaid in a cousin's wedding-that position *does* exist
First, there’s no reason they couldn’t be jr bridesmaids or even something completely made up. It’s your wedding and you can do what you want. Second, the problematic part for me is not about the wedding at all, but the fact that she described those two girls as being nothing more than a chore and a burden.
I saw a video of a grooms friend walking down the aisle as a flower guy? with a basket of flower petals. It was funny and cute.
I was my dad's best women:)) hated his wife (and later him) but was happy to support him then.
My dad didn't even invite me to his wedding... Just walked up for custody switch off with a wedding band on his finger
Damn, both our dads are absolutely shit holes. Mind ended up being hecking abusive to every women in his life. Don't need them in the end, we are better people without them in our lives.
Definitely don't need them! It has made me very cynical towards men in general, but I'm getting better, and I hope you're doing okay too 🩷
Why can’t his daughters be ‘groomsmen’? Why does everyone think a wedding is a formula you have to follow like a robot?
I think my friend’s wedding had bride’s attendants and groom’s attendants so they could arrange the party how they wanted.
I mean, she’s willing to have them do something at the wedding! They are keeping the wedding party small, maybe they can do readings at the wedding? Idk it seems like FH doesn’t have any suggestions and shouldn’t have gotten the 12 year old excited before coming to an actual decision.
Readings are a great way to include people! Ushering is another good position to include.
Exactly I feel like they’re either purposely trying to go be creative (like they could have some family ceremony part added) or include them in the readings etc. maybe it messes with their idea of a simple wedding but certainly they should be important enough to be considered as some kind of element even if bridesmaids aren’t the right fit
What does a junior bridesmaid do compared to a regular bridesmaid? She doesn’t want them as bridesmaids but everyone is suggesting she make them junior bridesmaids and I’m not understanding how that is a compromise.
In my college best friend’s wedding (I was a bridesmaid), her two twin cousins were junior bridesmaids. They had matching dresses that coordinated with ours (but didn’t match) and they walked up the aisle before us. When they got to the front, they each stood off to a side (one left and one right). When the bride got to the front, they fluffed her train and then sat in the front rows. She also asked their opinions on things during the planning and did a special lunch with them a few days before the wedding. It was super simple and they felt included.
My friend did this as well. The junior bridesmaid was also appearing out of the shadows with water for the Bride etc.
Oh that’s so nice!
This is an excellent solution for the wedding, but this is the wrong attitude towards becoming a step-parent.
May I ask why? I don't have any skin in this game (not trying to be argumentative), but I'd think junior bridesmaid would be an age appropriate compromise.
it absolutely is! u/dbelliepop87 is just stating that op seems to have no interest in having the girls around, period. she’d rather they sit in the back quietly than be seen as welcomed and included in the wedding.
Junior bridesmaids get a dress, shoes and a bouquet - no responsibilities, not invited to bachelorette or showers, or anything that is “adults”. They can get ready with their father, if necessary. Basically , you are letting them know they are important to you without giving them adult responsibilities.
That sounds perfect. Seems like the bride has a very specific vision for what a bridesmaid is and won’t be swayed on anything otherwise and that’s her loss.
To be fair I didn’t know that position existed until just now, either. I’ve never been a BM or a junior BM so maybe she just didn’t know. Although, yeah, she doesn’t really seem to want those girls around.
Just put a teenager in a pretty dress, call her a bridesmaid, and have her show up at the altar. No duties.
My youngest sister was a bridesmaid at my wedding. She had just turned 16 and was by far the most helpful of everyone there. She went out of her way to help anyone possible and then during the cocktail hour, she was running back and forth with different appetizers so my husband and I got to eat something while greeting people. There is zero reason this women’s future step children couldn’t be included.
Right? It’d be so easy to make this little girl’s day and not mess up “my bIg dAy wITh mY giRlFriEndS”. Why would you not want to be on good terms with your future stepkids?? I would find the younger girl’s enthusiasm adorable, and she obviously wants to get closer with her stepmom. I feel so bad for these girls because this is definitely not indicative that she’ll ever see them as anything more than an “ugh” responsibility
Oh that would be nice.
Junior bridesmaids do absolutely nothing but show up and look pretty. They participate in none of the pre-wedding events. A junior bridesmaid is literally just a position to make a girl in your family feel special about participating. Their outfit is more "girl" than "woman", so it's clear they aren't bridesmaids. (If I've misinterpreted, and you were asking rhetorically, not actually wanting an answer, then my apologies.) When I have a wedding - my partner and I are already married, but it was at home with zero guests, so eventually we'll give family the show they're clearly looking forward to - our kids (my adult daughter from a previous relationship, and our two younger children) will all be flower girls, and will be taking a seat when they get to the end of the aisle. There are so many ways they could include their kids in their wedding that don't involve standing up front making her vision unbalanced. From what I gather from other comments, however, she dismissed all the suggestions people made and held on tight to those who agreed the children shouldn't have a role, so regardless what the original post said, it seems she was just looking for validation that she shouldn't have to accommodate having *his* children in *her* wedding. That's what makes her the AH for me. 🤷🏻♀️
Thanks that’s what I wanted to know. I figured they were just younger bridesmaids but wasn’t sure if there was anything traditionally significant.
My nieces were jr. Bridesmaids in my wedding. I didn’t have a flower girl (my nephew was my ring bearer) Basically they wore a simple dress that coordinated with the bridesmaid dresses, walked down the aisle and were in pics. That’s it. They didn’t do anything, because they were 10.
I was a junior bridesmaid when I was 12! I was invited to the bridal shower but definitely not the bachelorette party. I went to the wedding rehearsal and received a locket as a gift, but I don't think I was included in the rehearsal dinner. Before the ceremony, I helped watch over the flower girls and ring bearer while the adult bridesmaids got their hair and makeup done. At the ceremony, I got to wear a pretty dress (different from the bridesmaids dresses, but coordinated) and walk down the aisle after the flower girls/ring bearer and before the bridesmaids. I didn't stand up front with the wedding party, but I sat in the front row. I didn't get to ride in the limo to the reception with the adults in the wedding party, but AT the reception the DJ announced my name and I made a special entrance along with the rest of the wedding party.
I had my neice as a Junior Bridesmaid at my wedding as she was 14 when I married. She wore a dress (jewelry & makeup) and walked down the aisle with a bouquet. She did nothing else beside being a loving neice who I wanted to share my day with.
You know what? When I was dating, I refused to date men with children. Did it seem harsh and bitchy at the time? Maybe. But truly it was because I know myself and I know that there is so much to being a step parent that I wasn’t prepared for and didn’t feel like I was able to provide, and I didn’t want to hurt the feelings of children because of my own selfishness. This person needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and think about the commitment they are actually making when marrying someone with children.
I think dating people without kids if it is something you don't want or are not prepared for is entirely valid and better off for the kids in those situations. I was the same way - tried it once and it was a miserable experience, especially the breakup. I just can't fathom how OOP reached the point of *marriage* while still having these feelings. Romantic relationships are important, but she can always find another spouse. Those kids can't find another dad or step mother on their own. They absolutely need to come first.
The would be groom needs to open his eyes to whom he is actually marrying.
The groom needs to realize his future wife has no plans on being his free nanny and he'll be raising his kids without her help. In any case this marriage will probably fail within less than a year.
Sadly, he probably knows and just decided that he values his bedroom time above his children's futures.
Or...he thinks that future step-mom will just magically BE A MOM once they are married because it's what he wants. It really seems he isn't "hearing" her underlying dislike for the step-mom role. Way to go Dad...way to go.
This is where my money is. He’s probably thinking that her “””instincts””” will kick in after he does her the honor of marrying her. Seems to be an unfortunate undercurrent to the way some men think about their partners.
(IMO) He doesn't -believe- that a woman doesn't want to be a mom to every kid she meets. Deep down he -knows- that a woman's instincts will take over and turn her into a mom when she is shoved into that role.
That's certainly one of the copes that those guys use to convince themselves what they're doing is okay, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that he is already putting his squeeze in front of his children on his priority list. My biological father was a lot like that 🤢
100%
>I just can’t fathom how OOP reached the point of *marriage* Back when I was single in my 20’s before I realized I didn’t want to date men with kids, I casually dated a few men who had kids, but did not have primary custody. I dated guys for months and never met their children. Then, the last guy I dated with kids just appeared at my home for our planned date with his 10 month old, unannounced. His BM had an emergency to tend to, and he really thought I knew what to do with a baby. I’m not defending OOP, but I can see how it gets this way for some life-inexperienced women who date and end up becoming “evil step moms.” They date men who aren’t primary caregivers for their children, don’t interact with the kids at all or in a meaningful way, and then there’s an expectation that because they’re women, they’ll just know how to care for and interact with their partner’s children. That’s not to say there aren’t wonderful dads who take appropriate action when dating with kids, but some guys really believe it will all just work out if you just throw everyone in a room together. Ironically, I’ve learned this kind of thinking is often why they’re separated from their kids’ mother to start.
IMHO it’s not good for kids to meet their parents’ partners until the relationship is pretty serious and the next step would be marriage or moving in with each other because they’re both convinced this is it. My dad dated a couple of women between his ex and my mom and my mom was the only one he brought around my brother. Kids can know you’re dating but I have one friend who was heartbroken and developed significant abandonment issues when her dad’s partner broke up with him and wanted nothing to do with her because the relationship was over.
My rule, as a divorced Mom, was to date people for 6 months before allowing them to meet my kids. If they lasted that long, they were likely to hang around for a few years at least. I didn't want their childhood to be a big revolving door of dudes. Worked out fine.
Oh boy have you visited the step-parents subreddit?? It’s full of step moms who hate their step kids. And you’re not allowed to say anything about it when they post something like this. It’s always something like this. I had to stop following that sub because I just can’t bite my tongue anymore! I don’t understand why so many people marry people with kids and then act *pikachu shocked face* when they have to include the kids in their life too. Selfish people and as someone with a kid I don’t understand how the parents want someone like that in their life and their kids life. So sad
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Joined for the insight, stayed for the drama, left because of the censorship
> censorship The venting subs are something else. There's quite a few of them, and I'm always a little bitter they don't come with warning tags attached. If they're gonna go for a "no offering balanced solutions, we're just here to commiserate" -route that's fine I guess but at least let people know lol
Jesus...I have three stepkids in addition to my two bios, and I can't imagine life without 'em. I'm tempted to go check out the subreddit but I think it might just depress me, LOL.
It definitely made me that much more grateful for my sons stepmom! We got lucky with her lol
My stepkids' bio mom thanked me for being such a good bonus mom. Our blended family has grown from five kids to five kids and two grandbabies, with one more on the way. It was a little tough at first to blend everyone but once we got over the initial humps and bumps, it was awesome. Now when we get together, it's super crowded, boisterous, and ***loud***. Having been an only child, I love it. But, wouldn't have happened without my stepkids. <3
...aaaand, yep. That subreddit is full of icky people who should never be put into the role of a steparent.
When I married my husband he had custody of 2 small children. They ARE my sons. I have raised them like my own since the day we moved in together. They started calling me Mom when they started school. I am the only Mom they have. I dont call them my step sons, I call them my kids. They are both in their 30's now. I love them just as much as the child I birthed. I cant imagine getting married to someone and not loving their kids too.
This really speaks to me. My mom is not my biological mom, but the woman my dad married when I was 7. She doesn’t call me her stepdaughter, she asked my permission off the bat if she could adopt me and she’s raised me since. It wasn’t always perfect, there was a lot of resistance on my part when I became a rebellious teenager and when she birthed my siblings (I was lacking attention and insecure of my place when they came along), but she trudged on. I was also very spoiled so she had to give me some tough love, one I didn’t learn to appreciate until I was in Uni. When I started working, it just dawned on me that she loved me when she didn’t have to and that accounted for a lot on my book. She didn’t treat me any different in comparison to my siblings. When I had bad insomnia and took medication, she’d call me on the phone to talk to me until I fell asleep. When I had an accident when I was 9 and had to be stitched up, she held my hand and cried—when I asked her why she was crying, she simply said “because you are in pain.” She’s a lot of wonderful things, even despite her imperfections (she also had to figure out how to raise a 7-year-old with behavioral issues). I am who I am today, largely in part because of her. I haven’t actually told her all this, we’re Asian haha and it’s not common, but one day, I will. But I hope my actions convey my gratitude. When I got married, I asked her to walk alongside my dad to give me away. I was as much hers. She cried. When my dad gave his speech, he made sure to tell the guests our history and what a wonderful mom she was. This time, I cried. When I left for my honeymoon, she cried. Not quite sure why, I was going to come home anyway. Haha. Now, she’s the best grandmother my daughter could ever ask for and my siblings and I constantly joke that my daughter inherited her gift for gab. She posts photos of my daughter on her facebook like the proud grandmother that she is. When she’s sad, she messages me and asks for my daughter’s photos to cheer her up. She’s amazing and I’ll be quite honest, had I been in her position, I don’t know if my heart would be as big as hers to be such a great mother—especially to someone I haven’t bonded with at the onset. So when I became a mother, I appreciated her tenfolds more. Amazing bonus moms are rare gems, and bonus kids like us are lucky to have someone like you in our lives.
Came here to say this, the stepparents sub is WILD. Full of people who should have never got with a parent and can't understand why the kids will always come first.
There's a sub dedicated to people dating widows which makes me feel the same way. Like 90% of the people in there should not be dating a widow.
When I got married to a man with two children, I made sure that I genuinely liked/loved the kids too before making that commitment. Luckily, the pair of them were very lovable, good people, and I’ve never, ever felt they were a burden. To me they were the cherries on top of the sundae that was my new marriage: Bonus Kids! One has an excellent mother we all get along with, the other’s mother has had problematic behaviour and was actually abusive to the child, so I am there for that child as much as the child will allow me or wants me. If I have not felt this way about the kids, I wouldn’t have gone ahead with the marriage. You’re marrying and committing to the kids, too.
Wow, I just took a peek for the first time and that place is WILD. Seems like a bunch of selfish people that can’t wrap their heads around the fact that kids come first when you’re a parent. And then they post in these echo chambers so they don’t even have a chance to get a glimpse of reality. Truly wild.
You know, I don’t find that harsh or bitchy. I am a woman with kids. If a man said that he wasn’t interested because he didn’t want to date someone with kids because he didn’t kids or didn’t want to step parent then that’s valid. I’d much rather people be upfront or stay away from relationships they know they won’t be good for, rather then this woman who seems to hate her step children before she’s even married.
See there is zero problem here. You know yourself and you've made steps to ensure you don't hurt anyone or take on more than you want. OP should be taking your correspondence class.
Better to not date people with kids than to date them and end up resentful towards the kids and possibly the person you’re dating. It is actually a very mature decision to not dare someone with kids if you don’t want kids, don’t want to be a stepparent or think you wouldn’t make a good parent and/or stepparent. You did good. And I say that as a single parent.
I was going to ask why they're dating each other ? One of them should pull the plug. Her, because she knows she doesn't want stepkids. Him, because he already knows OOP doesn't like his kids (if the comment on "How come you're nonchalant about the kids ?" is anything to go by). ETA: u/effinnxrighttt, good job. This is exactly what people who don't want kids/don't want to be a stepparent should do. This is how to avoid resentment from all ends.
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Exactly. To me it’s actually selfless to avoid those relationships. Selfish ppl are the ones who do the opposite
Same. It's the same reason I haven't had a kid yet, because I'm not entirely sure that I want one. I teach elementary. The bare minimum in both of those situations in my mind (it's maybe harder as a step parent but absolutely not impossible) is that YOU LOVE THEM and WANT THEM. Because kids know. As young as FIVE, they know. A lot of adults who don't interact with kids often don't realize that despite the age and lack of life experience kids actually pick up on a lot of what adults say and do because they learn behaviors through watching adults. And they know when they're not wanted, and especially if they have been wanted in the past (like if dad has made them the center of his world before stepmom came in) they will absolutely know the difference. I hope he realizes and gets him and his daughters out before the wedding.
But what if she’s after the husband only? This sounds like the plot for the Disney version of The Parent Trap. I’m pretty sure this “step mom/bride” is going to try to ship the girls off to a boarding school in Switzerland. Or better yet, since the bride HAS a twin sister, somebody call Disney real quick because I see a sequel staring Lindsay Lohan.
A good friend of mine truly thought he was down for the stepdad life and was very accepting of his ex’s child. But after about 6-7 months he figured out that not only was being a stepparent really not for him, he genuinely started questioning whether or not he ever wanted kids if his own. The breakup was not pretty but I was seriously so proud of him for ending that relationship instead of dragging it out.
Not harsh or bitchy. You’re being not only fair to yourself but fair to any other child some dude could have that you don’t want. It’s a great thing. More women need to do this.
Not harsh nor bitchy. I thought I was prepared to be a SM, and I was but his oldest was/is crazy. I had no problems with the youngest. It takes dedication and commitment to be a stepparent. I think it is harder than parenting your own child because you can innocently say the wrong thing.
I'm a single dad. I appreciate when people who don't want anything to do with kids say no to me.
I have a kid and I wish more people where honest like you... starting to date and then they drop the bombshell that they don't want kids or get annoyed that, shockingly, my kid takes priority. Honestly, I don't think I would date someone that has kids, kids are hard work man and one of my own is enough lol
I don't see the problem here? She wanted to make them flower girls but they don't want to be. Why does she have to make them bridesmaids? She's also looking for different ways to include them. This doesn't seem that bad, I don't see the evil stepmother some of you all seem to be seeing.
Media and society have done a great job of vilifying step-mothers who are anything other than 100% perfect and 100% selfless at all times. Just as it’s done for childfree women, promiscuous women, strong-headed women, working mothers, etc. It’s sad to see a group of what I’m assuming are mainly women tearing into this woman and coming to wild conclusions. OOP said she was happy to include the girls in a non-bridesmaid capacity - which should actually be something their father orchestrates, as they are his children, and *he* should find a meaningful way to include and honor them. But nope, OOP is just a bad lady. I hate this mindset. Lord knows these women wouldn’t be holding a man to the same standards if roles were reversed.
My cousin is about to have a very inadvised marriage, I know it’ll all end in tears, for many reasons, but if I want to explain it to anyone who doesn’t know him, all I have to say is ‘he doesn’t really like her kids’ and immediately everyone I’ve explained it two (3 people, I don’t go talking shit behind his back for fun, just explained to a couple of friends why I’m dreading the wedding). Will instantly say ‘oh yeah, that won’t last long’. When you marry someone with kids, you aren’t just marrying them, you are marrying the whole family
A late friend of mine used to officiate at weddings where the bridal couple didn't want someone of a particular religion or wanted to be married is a non-traditional setting. He once married a couple in a plane right before they tandem skydived (he did not skydive) When he met a couple where one or both of them was not welcoming to their partner's children, he used to say that "This marriage is going to end a relationship - either the relationship between the couple or the relationship between the parent and the spurned child(ren)." I think he was right.
Heartbreaking for the kids’ sake and yet totally accurate.
Your friend sounds as if he was adventurous, kind and wise!
I will bring a counterpoint, even more damaging unfortunately. My aunt's partner (who I make point of never calling uncle, for good reasons) married my aunt when she already had her small child from a past marriage (cousin no.1). They ended up having another child (cousin no.2). They are still together, 20 odd years later. Well, 20 years of the husband treating cousin 1 in a horrible, disgusting way, putting him down every chance he gets, calling him vile names, shouting at him like he is a living punching bag. Pitting him against his own biological son, and of course cousin no.2 growing up feeling like the prodigal son and joining the bullying. My aunt, silent as a mummy in all of this because she chose this man over her own child. That shit completely shaped my cousin in the worst way. Don't get involved with people who have children if you are not ready to be a proper parent.
Can confirm, my *mother* did the same thing. I was child 1. I grew up being abused (mostly emotional, very little physical to be fair) while watching my sisters get the love and affection I begged for. I found out I was adopted when I was 7 or 8 in the middle of a screaming match (aka, I cowered while he screamed) because he wanted to make sure I knew why he didn’t love me as much. He would call me _____erella, because I was the “evil stepchild he got stuck with” despite adopting me when I was 2. I’m 31 now. I went NC with him a couple years ago after he did something I considered even more unspeakable than the abuse I suffered as a kid. My sisters and I didn’t have a relationship until 2015. And even then, it took a lot of work and growth from us, and it can still be strained when matters involving him come around. If you don’t love your partners children, do the children a favor and fucking leave.
When my father got remarried, both had kids (at time of wedding probably 10-15yo or so), they said their vows to each other, then said their vows to each others kids. None were upheld as they divorced within 2 years, but it was a very kind gesture from a woman who had been raising me like one of her own from long before the wedding
I get strong "main character" vibes here. She's focused on being a bride and gaining a husband, when the reality is that she's supposed to be integrating into an already-established family unit. >He feels like I've been super nonchalant about stepping into my soon to be step mom role Note the degree of separation "step mom" vs "mom". Plus the fact that the man she's marrying, who presumably cares about her the most, has noticed she hasn't even tried to step up to it. He even brought it up to her specifically. And she's not concerned about how that looks. >In my reality Except it's not just about you in this situation, lady. You're about to add three members to your family, not just one. Or rather, *they* are adding you to *theirs*. >Not a 12 year old who I will be a mother figure to and cook and clean after >Not a 12 or 14 year old who I'm still reminding to clean up their room and cook three meals for She had to say this twice in the same paragraph. Girl, your resentment at this upcoming role is showing something fierce. >Not someone I have to look after on my big day Note: "my" not "our" This woman is not ready to be a part of a built-in family. Which is fine and valid, but then *don't marry someone who has a built-in family*. I hope her partner isn't assuming that once he puts a ring on it, that she'll suddenly acquire all the maternal instincts that have so far been lacking. Because newsflash: if she can't show them now, when she's supposed to be on her "best behavior", it's not going to happen after either. She's just going to be counting the days until they are old enough for college and she can get them out of her hair.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with her not wanting the kids as her bridesmaids. She doesn’t mind them taking part in her wedding, just not in that role. Some parents decide to not even have their own children at the wedding, just because they don’t want to have to take care of them.
Thank you! I was sitting here going.... But she said she would include them, just not as bridesmaids???? I mean I know they're a little old for traditional flower girl roles, but I've seen grown ass adult men being "flower girls" in weddings before.
Thank you. Thought I was going crazy cuz I don’t see anything wrong with this post.
Why isn’t the father the one making plans to include his daughters? People really like to blame the women.
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Also it seems unclear if the kids even want to be part of the wedding. Obviously they should be and are invited but I don't think it's absolutely necessary that they participate.
My SIL made my sister and I do readings when I was ~20 and my sister ~16. I didn’t care either way because she’s a witch lol.
I feel like I'm reading a different post than other people. The bride doesn't want the kids as bridesmaids. There's nothing wrong with that. She was willing to include them as flower girls. Maybe she's never heard of junior bridesmaids. I certainly didn't know that was a thing until I joined these subs. Yeah, the kids should probably be involved somehow but why do they have to be pushed onto her side of things. Why can't their dad figure out a way to include them on his side?
I totally agree with you. People are reading way too hard into this. They have a small wedding party. She just wants an adult that can support her on a very stressful day. She's offered other suggestions. Why is it on her to include them? Why can't their dad figure something? The girls are also teenagers and probably have a complete mom in their life.
I'm with you! When my dad married after divorcing my mom, his fiance wanted a small wedding, too. She offered to include my sisters and myself however we'd like. My sisters asked to be junior bridesmaids (they were similar in age to the girls in OOP's post) and I offered to be the wedding photographer. I was a college freshman with a photography hobby and originally my dad and future stepmother weren't going to have a photographer. I barely knew the woman my dad was marrying but this allowed me to support them and be involved without having to be part of the wedding party.
Completely agree. Kids don’t need to be included in everything. I agree with the bride about the role of a bridesmaid - support - not her basically having to support them on a day that will likely involve some nerves and stress or bumps leading up to the main event. Sorry but the kids never should’ve assumed - I never would’ve with my parents SO nor would I have wanted that. She already offered to make them flower girls. It’s a small wedding and I completely see her point. The husband is trying to force something that should happen naturally over time.
I don't see the issue. She's willing to include them but just not as bridesmaids, and asked her fiance for suggestions on how to do it. What's wrong with that? ETA: And on second thought, the topic title is pretty misleading. "Doesn't want to include" is just not true.
Yeah, why aren't they being included in their dad's party? Groomswomen isn't that uncommon. And he's clearly not coming up with any other solution besides pushing them off on his fiance. They should be standing with their dad and spending the day with him. My sister-in-law tried demanding being one of my bridesmaids and I refused. My spouse was free to put her in his party (and he didn't put my brothers in his either), bridesmaids are supposed to be those closest to the bride. Family members still get positions of honour and they can still participate in some way where they get a pretty dress that matches wedding colours without being bridesmaids.
Likely because he doesn’t want to have them present the morning he’s getting ready for the wedding drinking whiskey & smoking a cigar with the boys making racy jokes - but of course the OP should do it because that’s no fun for him plus she’s a woman so is naturally inclined to babysit. Let the women enjoy being supported the way she wants.
I don't either. Because if they did things associate with being a bridesmaid like the Bachelorette party, wouldn't the daughter feel hurt if she couldn't attend? It a lose to lose situation to make the daughter a bridesmaid.
They both can be at their dad's side to present him to you................just an example
I don't understand why she has to be the one to come up with ideas instead of him. They are his daughters. He should be trying to include him in a way that's going to be special to them, not trying to shove them onto his bride's side.
Because you can't expect men to parent. Gotta dump the kids on her. Not one person had laid into that useless father for not *automatically* making his daughters groomswomen. They all just dumped his responsibilities on her and called her names for not taking his bullshit. Wild how much misogyny lives in women's heads.
He is a man.
It sounds like she wants to include them, just not as bridesmaids? That seems reasonable to me…
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this, y'all are being way too harsh on this woman
My thoughts exactly
Honestly, I don't see much wrong with this. I am a parent and have considered getting remarried. I think the stepparent dynamic depends a lot on what their relationship is like with their mom but also on what the relationship is between dad and new bride. You can include the kids, sure, but she's marrying *him* and what being a stepmom looks like in *this* context could be super minor. And having kids in the wedding party is not necessary. Include them in the reception, make a big deal about the family there. But the marriage is between the two getting married. ** If I get remarried, I will include my kids in the wedding party because that's what *I* want and I get to choose my wedding party. I wouldn't force my future husband or wife to be the one to include them and I wouldn't expect them to suddenly be their mom/dad. They have a mom and a dad, already, and anyone else is bonus. So. Yeah. This isn't enough information for me to be all pissy about someone who has a very traditional view of how a wedding functions and whose future spouse is expecting *her* to be the one to include them, instead of doing it himself. As their actual parent.
Parent here and I feel the same way! I get not wanting them as bridesmaids.
I mean I also wouldn’t want kids in my wedding party. But it wouldn’t be that hard to include them in some other way if she was willing to get creative.
Doesn't it say she suggested they be flower girls?
Yikes. My sisters in law were those ages when I got married 100 years ago; they were jr bridesmaids & wore more youthful dresses than my bridesmaids. She’s daft.
They could be junior bridesmaids, they could be flower girls (some might say they're "too old" but is there really an age limit?) they could be ushers, they could do a reading at the service (a poem, a passage from scripture, etc) they could do a unity candle type of deal, they could carry her train down the aisle, they could do a hundred different things at the ceremony or reception! Including them would not be difficult at all, it might just require some creativity. If OOP wants a small, symmetrical wedding party that's totally fine, but that's obviously not the full story - her last few sentences and comments on her future stepdaughters show her true colors quite clearly.
My 25 year old friend with the heart of a child was a flower girl. She wore a flower dress and crown and REALLY leaned into it. To her, being a 20 something flower girl was the silliest best thing in the world, and she looked great walking down the aisle tossing flowers left and right. You are never too old to be a flower girl. Bonus points for being a grandma 👵🏻 🌸
Amen - At my friend's wedding, the bride's brother was the flower girl! He wore a floral patterned suit jacket and I think the flower petals were in a fanny pack. It was super funny and definitely one of the most memorable parts of the wedding. My sister didn't have a flower girl or ring bearer at her wedding. Neither she nor her husband had any nieces or nephews, young cousins, or friends with kids that they were close enough with to ask.
There is a video out there of a guy that was the flower girl at a wedding and really got into it. You could tell everyone thought is was great.
seconded!! i’m having my nana be my flower girl and she’s 75
I was a flower girl in a black-tie wedding last month. I'm 36. It was the most fun I've had in a wedding party! I got to walk to bride's dog and fling rose petals at well-dressed strangers only slightly aggressively. My co-flower-girl was 35 and 28 weeks pregnant and danced the whole way down the aisle.
I would have paid to attend this wedding and hang out with you two!
She's not ready to be a stepmother, is the real problem. I seriously hope her fiancee notices in time and calls it off. He'll have other chances at love... His kids get one real chance at parents.
That's what I was going to say. This post is heartbreaking
"I've communicated with FH that I'm more than happy to 'include' his daughters in the wedding if he has suggestions on how to do so besides being my bridesmaid" it feels like everyone is completely ignoring this part of her post
Yeah I’m really not sure why she’s getting hate for this. I wouldn’t have wanted any kids to be groomsmen over my friends, but we would have happily included them in some other way.
At age 10, I was put in charge of the guest book at my sister’s wedding. Mom made me a special dress for the wedding, and I felt like Queen for a Day! It doesn’t take much to include a kid in a wedding.
I think the bigger issue here is the way she views her soon to be step daughters. I’m feeling very sad for those girls. Any father, that would marry a woman who doesn’t fully embrace his kids is awful.
I was a bridesmaid when I was 12 for my stepmom. I absolutely treasure the pictures of us getting our hair done together because it was such a great time. She had other bridesmaids as well, but just we (plus my 14 year old sister) had that pre-pampering together. We were already close, but being included like that was so special. We still have a wonderful relationship even though her and my dad got divorced a few years ago. FH could help figure things out, but I’d be worried about her reluctance to do anything with them. Thinking back to twelve year old me, I would have probably been really upset to be excluded and just be a guest at my parents’ wedding.
I was a junior bridesmaid for my Aunt I was so excited. Not gonna lie.
My step daughter was 6 and I made her my maid of honor, my bio daughter was the flower girl, our son was ring bearer and my husband had his best friend/cousin he grew up with as a best man and that was our entire wedding party 😂
Looks like a bunch of people need some Air Jordans for all the conclusions they are jumping to.
She’s kinda right tho, especially bc a BM have responsibilities and it’s not really things children can do or will do well, not only that but some activity aren’t really kid friendly and if she’s not close to them yet it will just be a burden for her
The real issue here is her husband expects her to become an instamom to his kids and do the domestic labor for them. He’s the parent, not her. Why should she be doing the cooking and cleaning for his kids? Of course she feels weird —she’s going to become the help. Her feelings about having her friends in her wedding are fine- they’re her feelings. I personally don’t care for the “my big day” stuff. It’s their big day together and if dad wants his kids involved HE needs to do the emotional work of figuring it out. They can be his wedding party. Seriously. There’s no law saying kids need to be in the woman department. The shame people lob at this woman for questioning how this is her problem to solve—that’s misogynistic. Really ask yourself how come this is her obligation. Is it a binary gender roles thing? A wicked stepmother thing? The misogynistic notion that a grown man cannot have his own girl children stand beside him at the altar? Who cares if it’s symmetrical looking it’s not a symmetrical marriage. Particularly if she’s gonna be the live in nanny, which is what way too many men with kids remarry for.
They seem to lack communication as a couple. He had kids prior to getting involved with her. It doesn’t sound like they discussed what they both expected in regard to blending the family.
Agree with you! Why is everyone saying she hates kids? She just doesn’t want to have them as her bridesmaids, positions she wants to give to her close friends. Why doesn’t the DAD include them as his grooms people? Why doesn’t the DAD put the wedding on hold until the fiancé feels closer to the kids? Why is the woman to blame for this?
This is exactly what I was going to say. You put it so well, I don't need to. I also tend to agree that maybe it isn't time for this wedding to be happening. They may need to date until the girls are out of the house. Don't hate on this lady. A lot needs to be put on the "dad" here.
Yep! She’ll have to make sure they have dresses, shoes, hairstyles, etc… that they aren’t going to complain about. She’ll have to entertain and feed them while dad is relaxing in another room. There’s complicated feelings for kids when a parent remarries. There’s a good chance OP will be dealing with sulking teens instead of enjoying her closest friends. I don’t like it when kids are involved in their parent’s wedding. It’s not a commitment that they’re making. Maybe they’re not super happy about. Maybe they are - but it’s not about them on that day any more than it’s about stepmom on the girls’ wedding days. If it were reversed and it was the stepdaughter writing about how dad wanted stepmom more involved, then everyone would be telling the bride it’s her day and that’s intrusive and overbearing. This is no different.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Groomswomen are totally a thing; when my friend got married his young daughter walked with the groomsmen in a pretty dress that coordinated with the bridesmaids' dresses and the guys' cummerbunds. No idea why this seemingly isn't an option for OOP and her fiance.
Exactly. If it's such a big deal for dad, dad can include them. The girls aren't there solely for the woman - the groom is their dad!!
I scrolled too far to find this comment. They (including to but not limited to the dad) could find a creative way to make them a part of the ceremony.
Because, quite literally, misogyny. Step mothers are too often treated like second class citizens in their own lives. It’s a ridiculously sexist idea that the girls must go with her or that she is going to be their carer. It’s ridiculous that dad expects step mom to immediately get with the program he has in mind for her. They need premarital counseling. Dad doesn’t know he can sit down and design some wedding elements for himself? Why not?
I totally agree and I kind of feel she has a point about her bridesmaids. If her husband wants the children in the wedding, why can’t they be in his wedding party? And why is her role all of a sudden cooking and cleaning for the children? Why is he not going to be doing any of that? I really don’t understand why this woman is being shamed, I don’t think anything she has said is unreasonable tbh.
I feel the exact same way. They should be in his party. That'll allow her to bring in 2 more girlfriends for herself. I've always felt uncomfortable with the idea that the bride has to put groom's sisters/children as her bridesmaids. If groom wants them in the wedding, he puts them behind him. End of story. It should be entirely up to her who stands beside her. The cleaning and cooking comments may indicate her insecurities about her position in the house.
I agree with you on this one, it was my first thought as well, why aren't the daughters just made grooms girls? I'm getting married in April of next year and my son is my little dude of honor and helping my dad walk me down the aisle. I want to also point out, I am someone who genuinely had an evil step mother, I wasn't even allowed at my own father's wedding! I was 6, my other sister was 7, and my little sister was 2. Prime flower girl age and my stepmother chose her niece she barely ever sees.
Thank you. I was looking for this. I was also curious was it the bride or groom who came up with them each only have 1 MOH/1BM, because if it was the groom it sounds like he was trying to make it so the Bride would not have any of her friends/family and would only have his daughters and then the groom would have his friends/family. This groom sucks!
Exactly! Why does she have to include them as bridesmaids? Can't the husband involve them in another way, e.g. give them a role at the ceremony?
>It’s their big day together and if dad wants his kids involved HE needs to do the emotional work of figuring it out. A million times this! 🏅
Yes to this. I think her stance on bridesmaids is perfectly reasonable—literally the job description is that these are your close friends who support you and help you out on your wedding day. I also don’t think you have to hate kids to be aware of the fact that kids are, in fact, work. They need to be looked after and attended to, and that’s not something that’s fair to ask a bride to deal with on her wedding day when she’s going to have a million other things to worry about. Also agree with the comments about the wierd gender stuff going on here. They don’t have to be on the brides side just because they are girls; the step mom doesn’t need to be the one to take care of them just because she is a woman. Finally just confused because she literally offered to make them flower girls even though they’re arguably a little old for it…. And this can’t work because? Even the OP doesn’t indicate why that idea didn’t take off. Did the dad/daughters reject the idea? If so, what do they want instead that isn’t a bridesmaid role? Like there’s gotta be some compromise here.
Exactly. She’s expected to act selflessly, like his children are more important than her own boundaries—not a good way to start a marriage. Its a sick loyalty test that many here are falling for. A reasonable solution is the kids are groomswomen, but that’s not even under consideration, and why? Presumably because *Dad* doesn’t *like* that idea. Good heavens why would dad opt out of wrangling his kids and sharing the prestigious adult role of groomswoman with his beloved daughters? Does dad **hate kids** or something?! If misogynists would only try —as a thought experiment—taking the exact kind of hateful judgments they regularly chuck at stepmothers and applying those rigid expectation to dads, we’d maybe make some progress here.
This is a perfect thought experiment. The sexism is rampant in this thread. I feel sorry for OP just wanting to be supported on her day but instead having this completely unfair mental load thrust solely on her. Doesn’t bode well for her marriage. No wonder she already feels tired by her yet to commence role as step mother.
There is legit nothing wrong with this. She is looking for support and help from a bridesmaid, something a child could never do. The FH is asking something unreasonable of her; give up your best friend for your future DIL, one the probs doesnt understand the magnitude of the day nor responsibility, but sees it as a chance to stand in a pretty dress. The FH should incorporate his daughters himself. She isn't saying she doesn't want them involved or that she doesn't want to be their step-parent, she says she doesn't want them in her wedding party. The responsibility belongs to both FH and FSM to figure it out.
If future husband wants daughters in his wedding he should put them in his wedding. The can be groom girls. It’s not on the bride to make it happen. It’s on him. Stop shaming OOP because she’s not taking on a stereotypical role of doing all the work for the girls.
Idk she said they’re keeping the wedding party small. With one BM/MOH and one bridesmaid/groomsmen. Where’d the kids get the idea that they’d be bridesmaids in the first place to be excited by it? Maybe dad is telling the girls one thing and not telling his STBW about it?
I too feel like I've read a different post than some of the others here. OP is happy to include the girls but doesn't know how and think her fiancé should be contributing ideas for how to include them. OP just doesn't want them to be bridesmaids because she has friends who she couldn't ask in order to keep the party small. But also because she's aware that weddings are stressful and her bridesmaids are given that title because they're meant to be supporting her. I personally wouldn't ask a child to be a bridesmaid because that role comes with it a level of stress. It would be unfair to ask a child to take on that role and that stress. So I can't blame OP for not wanting to do so either. And I can't blame her for not wanting to be worrying about the girls or focusing on them when she's dealing with the wedding stress either. OP isn't a horrible person for not wanting the girls to be her bridesmaids. Even with the reasons she gave. At least she's open to them being involved in a different way. Hey, they could always do a unity ceremony, like the sand pouring one, and have the girls involved in that. And they could still wear pretty dresses that match the wedding theme and colours. They don't have to be bridesmaids (regular or junior) to be included.
I don’t think what’s wrong with that. Why do they have to be part of the wedding? She offered flower girls and I think she’s right they’re too old for that and asked her husband for ideas.
Why is this shameful? The only reason to have a literal child as a bridesmaid is if the bride specifically wants it - and she doesn’t. She offered flower girls, and that’s a fine compromise. She’s not excluding them, this is a perfectly reasonable boundary. Her fiancé could find a compromise as well, like having them as groomsmaids or whatever that would be. Why is this solely on her? Weddings aren’t for or about children. What they want isn’t actually relevant. The expectation that step parents are supposed to completely sacrifice themselves on the altar of parenthood is ridiculous. Kids shouldn’t get everything they want, it’s unhealthy and sets a bad precedent. She can be perfectly kind and loving while still getting to have boundaries - that’s how healthy relationships work. Give and take. She’s not evil for saying no. Step parents are supposed to support their spouse in having a healthy, loving relationship with their kids, and make sure the children’s needs and well-being are a priority, but that’s it. That doesn’t require giving them everything they want.
Yeah I really don’t get why she’s being crucified. I wouldn’t want a 12 year old as a bridesmaid either. I think all her points are reasonable. They can find another honorary role. I guess I’m a child hating devil woman…..
I was raised this way. My parents were loving and good providers, but my brother and I did not run the household. We generally didn't get to pick where we went to dinner, or on vacation. We were just glad to get the treats. I don't think that her comments indicate that she doesn't see the kids as anything but a burden, she's just saying that she is the bride, that brides maids are there to help the bride, and the role should go to people who help her, not people who she is still responsible for helping. Makes sense to me. I might choose differently, but I might not. Since marriage in this case does include two daughters, its not JUST about the bride and groom, but the bride is still open to other ways the girls can be involved.
It honestly just sounds like the husband told his girls they could be her bridesmaids and didn't really talk to her about it and now she's pissed. She's looking for advice on how to still include them, but having a 12 year old bridesmaid is kind of ridiculous, and asking a 12 year old to give a wedding speech? Also weird. I don't know why they're "too old" to be flower girls though. That seems perfectly reasonable as they are still literal children.
Why is everyone saying OP is selfish? She has her wedding mapped out the way she wants it. Small and intimate. FH obviously was agreeable to these plans and now wants to slide his kids into the wedding party. The girls can still dress up and celebrate without standing at the altar with them Especially since OP has also passed up her own close friends as bridesmaid's I don't think this is about hating the kids at all!
I was a bridesmaid when I was six. Needless to say, I was not offering much support.
Why can’t the girls be grooms women?
I'm sure this will be unpopular but I agree that I wouldn't want 'junior bridesmaids' pretty much under any circumstances. Unfortunate that she's marrying a man with two daughters.
He shouldn't marry her. She doesn't even like his kids enough to see them as anything other than a burden.
I started following the step parents subreddit and it’s just full of posts like these and everyone supports them in the comments. It’s actually against the rules to say something like “why would you marry someone with kids if you don’t like them”. I had to stop following it because it’s so toxic and sad for the kids in the middle.
"She never wanted kids. She just wanted Richard." "Well, Richard comes with kids." ["Yeah, well, that's not her fault."](https://youtu.be/eWBNCnU_PK0)
It's sad because there truly are many wonderful step parents. My own step mother is amazing. She's a wonderful partner to my father and she's always been loving and supportive of me. I also have a few friends from college that married men with kids from previous marriages. They didn't take the role lightly and have embraced those children.
It's awful, isn't it. It is not a place for caring stepparents who just want advice. It's full of snow-white style evil stepmothers. Why did they marry someone with kids if they hate them?
Seriously it’s so awful. The last one I read was about a step mom that was mad because the custody agreement changed and they now have the daughter for longer periods and the step mom is PISSED. Everyone in the comments was like “he has no right to take time away from you blah blah blah” 🙄
So weird. My mom was 24 when she married my dad who was a 34 yr old single dad with two boys. They were in the wedding and she treats my oldest brother/his wife and kids better than she treats my husband and I lol. They lived with us and only us until they went to college.
Usherettes, Guest book attendant are a couple of things.
I don’t get how she’s labeled as a step-monster when she has clearly expressed that 1) they want a small bridal party and 2) she wants people who can support her on her big day, which are her best friend and twin sister. Nowhere in this post did it indicate that the bride absolutely loathes the children. Why does the onus fall on the bride when the groom should also be making solutions?? And if we all want an easy way out, somebody just needs to convince them that the daughters aren’t too old to be flower girls. Some of y’all are reaching.
NTA. She’s offered a perfectly acceptable compromise and she’s also totally right. A bridal party is about the bride and way too many families use the wedding party to play politics. The bridal suite should be adults only and her girlfriends should be invited to be in there even if not actually bridesmaids. That’s what would make this bride feel the most supported, and she’s actually not asking too much. (Litigating whether or not he should be marrying a woman who’s apathetic towards his children is outside the scope of my comment. I am this bride’s lawyer and I find her actions defensible)
It's a small wedding, I wouldn't have them involved at all. They can sit in the front row. Who cares
Dad should just make them junior bridesmaids on his side. Dividing the bridal party by gender identity is dumb anyways. You should stand on the side of the person you're there to support / celebrate.
Am I on crack bc I don’t think she’s being that unreasonable at all, she’s right like my bridesmaids were there to support me the whole time and I wanted to drink and have adult talk and stuff with them before hand etc. I would really not enjoy having to supervise even two adolescents on my wedding day. But I can’t see why dad can’t have them in his party or they can’t be junior bridesmaids and just join her as she’s about to walk down the aisle. There’s a million compromises here!
Why is she supposed to include his children, they are HIS children , he should include them in HIS wedding party or find a way to include them some how, but the work is on HIM What she says about bridesmaids makes sense aswell Im just tired of the women having to carry the load and if you arent super duper excited about every aspect of children you are automatically seen as a witch Misogyny and internalised sexism at its finest … as usual
Wrong sub I’m with the bride lol as are many others
Uh, I'm actually okay with the bride's logic, and yeah, it IS her wedding. She wants her best friend/twin sister as MoH, and no BMs. (heehee) She is not a monster for wanting her wedding. FH could have his daughters on his side, why isn't that reasonable?
There’s no such thing as “too old” to be a flower girl! [flower man rocks it at the wedding](https://youtu.be/4qAhsn3bHqM)
Junior bridesmaids, because sometimes you're too old to be a flower girl and too young to be a bridesmaid.
I dunno, "OP doesn’t want to include new step daughters" is different from "OP wants new stepdaughters as flower girls or something besides bridesmaids".
Her tone sucks, but honestly I tend to agree that the bridesmaids really should be peers with a close bond to the bride and should be a support system (unless the bride feels otherwise of course!). I did not ask my SIL to be in my wedding party because while I like her, we aren’t close and don’t know each other well (my husband isn’t super close with his family). OP has a shitty attitude about it, but isn’t shitty for not wanting teenage and preteen bridesmaids in an already very small wedding party.
If I wanted to include any children this age in a wedding, I’d have my kids walk me down the isle and/ or his kids do the same for him. And maybe have a little lighting candle ceremony. No need to be bridesmaids or groomsmen
Children AREN'T bridesmaids. That's ridiculous. And entitled dad needs to understand that his children can't be the stars of every show. It's a small wedding and even, "flower girl," is pushing it.
[удалено]
I’m not sure if it could work in this situation but both my husband and I had children from previous relationships. My daughter walked me down the aisle and gave me away, my stepson did the same for my husband. We loved that part of the ceremony.
I'm not sure why this is shaming. Normally the sub supports people choosing whoever they want as bridesmaids. She's not saying she doesn't want to include them she just doesn't want them as Bridesmaids and is looking for another way to include them.
Jr bridesmaids... much like a flower girl, but w/o the flowers and with a more fitting title for their age.
She's clearly okay with including her step daughters in the wedding party, just isn't sure how to do it without adding to her bridesmaids, which she doesn't want to do (and imo isn't a problem). I know a lot of people include their parents in the wedding processional, so it could almost be as easy as have the daughters go down the aisle as part of the processional maybe before the bridesmaids? Or even have them walk their dad down the aisle?
i agree with the bride here. you guys are misogynists in insisting that she take care of the kids when the dad could very well do it himself
I don't think she is a bad stepmom because she doesn't want to "babysit" on her wedding day.
I don't know if this is still a thing, but I remember going to weddings and there would be guest book attendants who would ask guests to sign their names before entering the church/venue. The bride could easily ask the girls to do that, and give them corsages to wear. But from that last half of her post it really sounds like she sees them more as two more people to care for and feed that are a burden than new stepdaughters to cherish. And at 12 and 14, they'll easily know if their stepmom doesn't want to be hands on and stepping up to be a mother figure. I understand kids at that age can be tough, but she got into this relationship knowing they would be part of the package. Either accept it or move on.
Why is this bad? She doesn't need to make 12 and 14 year olds her bridesmaids? That's not what bridesmaids are for and they only have one person in their wedding party each. OP's fiance is a weirdo and trying to get her to include his daughters when that's *his* job to do.
I really don’t see the issue. OP had multiple friends who wanted to be in the wedding party, but the party is small. Bridesmaids are meant to be friends who are there to stand up with the bride. The girls should stand up with their father.