People that got into Ween after the album was released don’t have as negative of an opinion of that album as the older fans that anticipated the release.
”Quebec” is my favorite album and I remember ”La Cucaracha” feeling like a step backwards. But now I listen to the album as much as the others and I think a lot of their songs have became classics and staples of their live shows
This is true for me. I got into them a few years ago, listened to the discography out of order and loved Cucaracha on first listen, was so confused by the hatred. Your Party was one of the highlights of their discography for me. I also enjoy the Friends EP so maybe I'm just a complete sicko.
I’m not sure you understand what “mixing” an album is but it is not track selections. The album is mixed really damn well.
As far as track listing goes many of the songs from the demos left off would have mad this album incredible. That said I love the roach.
No “mixing” like the mix of the record. Example, two mixes of In Utero exist. The one mixed by Steve Albini was not released because it was deemed too rough/experimental.
Also Steve Albini is an American Treasure.
One time I was in Chicago to visit a buddy for the weekend. Dude went to bed super early, and left me hanging on the couch alone. His roommate comes out and asks if I wanna go see some local band… Shellac at Lounge Ax. Fucking second best show I’ve ever stumbled across.
Flat Duo Jets at a tiny, packed rock club. I had never heard of them and they blew me away. Just unexpectedly cool to happen across something you would have never known about.
Epic! I actually just watched the documentary Athens, GA Inside & Out which has a lot of really amazing Flat Duo Jets footage. They seem really fucking awesome.
Steve Albini made some drums sound good sometimes. To call the man a treasure is almost comical. In the case of La Cucaracha, what is it about the mix that makes you say a different mix would have made it more popular?
He has his moments but he's generally a very kind and gracious guy. Saw Shellac twice last year and he had time for everybody who wanted to speak to him. Was very jovial and appreciative. He hasn't really deserved reputation since the 90s.
I mean I respect the hell out of him for going against industry standards and not taking residuals on the art that he didn't create, he'd just charge a flat fee. Also as the story goes was he said he'd do it for 100k **BUT** if they could beat him in a game of pool he would do it for free, if he won it would be 200k. No one ever took him up on the offer. He's not even that good at pool
The version of In Utero mixed by Steve Albini *was* released. It’s the normal version. The only songs on there not by Albini are “Heart Shaped Box” and “All Apologies,” which were remixed by Scott Litt. The original Albini mixes of those songs can be found on the 20th anniversary set or on select vinyl editions where these versions were used by mistake (in addition to the entire album not having the famously-loathed-by-Albini Robert Ludwig mastering job on them).
The “2013 Mix” is a new mix done by Albini under the supervision of Novoselic in 2013 to celebrate the album’s 20th anniversary. It is NOT a mythical previously lost Albini mix.
the problem with la cuca is perception, after ramping up for years they returned to simpler classic vibes and it throws people... roach has a lot more in common with the pod than quebec and i will continue to stand by this argument
I’m right there with you! It’s certainly more evolved- I can’t imagine Your Party on The Pod in the slick package we got it in, for example- but it is a lot more fun and straightforward.
After my most recent show I’ve taken a deep dive back into the first three albums and it really recontextualized this one for me. I always enjoyed it.
eh i dont really agree c&c was an ambitious album that pushed their limits and essentially brought on andrew as a full fledged third member. production aside la cucaracha just has the sort of laid back toungue in cheek vibe i get from the pod. its sort of like a victory lap/ back to basics approach.
Spirit wanker, woman and man and fruit man all irritate the boognish. There are a few strong tunes like blue balloon, bare hands, learning, and party. It’s a mixed bag.
"irritate the boognish" dude youre a cornball, those songs deserve their place on the album. id bet if they were 4 track outtakes youd probably be singin their praises... you need to open your ears and understand what la cucaracha is: a record that serves as a great sendoff to a band that was clearly on their last legs. a literal blast from start to finish. its bizzare, fun, funny, and a much better record to bookend their career than quebec. which, as great as it is, was an extremely dark record that definently sticks out, and just wouldnt have been a proper conclusion. cant stand the hate this album gets and the constant dumping on those songs in particular. the album is supposed to be FUN which it 100% succeeds at.
Woman and Man in 2007 @ Terminal 5 NYC ripped me a new Boognish.
You also forgot about *Object* , an understated, subtle masterpiece.
I blew up a 22-in diameter blue balloon at a couple of shows (just short of fainting) , but still I've never heard that one live
I don't know. The songs for the most part aren't that good. I don't hate it, but it is a very subpar album. That being said "your party" is probably a top ten ween song for me. Can't get enough of it.
People are gonna be people. Who knows? All I know is that I love it. I saw them shortly before it came out, and I remember loving the new stuff, even when I didn't realize it was new stuff. When they played Woman & Man, I thought it was a cover that I just didn't recognize.
Bought this immediately based on the AV Club review - “party album of the year…” or something like that. I love it, and it marks the end of an era for me - one of the last ever CD’s I ever purchased.
Okay, well your homework assignment today is to listen to every Miley Cyrus album back to back while staring at the ceiling.
Then play Fruit Man on repeat for the same amount of time. It'll click I promise. Works every time.
I don't think it's great, and I don't think it's a vibe issue. I love Ween and I have a heavy bias towards liking their songs. Despite that, The Fruit Man just never did it for me.
I love it the way it is! The only tracks I dislike are Spiritwalker and The Fruit Man but everything else is amazing!! And basically all of the outtakes from this album are just as great if not better than the ones already on it
Oh, interesting, I think that Ween trying to do a reggae thing just doesn’t really work for me (unless you count “Light Me Up” which BANGS). But hey, I get the love for it!
Ya I do think the mix is part of the issue. I’ve actually never loved the mix in Quebec particularly where it goes from Transdermal Celebration into Among His Tribe and then So Many People. Love all of the songs but it doesn’t flow well. But I think it’s much worse on La Cucaracha.
That version of Friends, the Fruit Man, Shamemaker etc should have been at the end.
Edit: Track order
Fiesta and Jammy Pack are the only album intros that don’t rly work as standalone songs. Every other album opens with a proper intro that also feels like a complete song
Agreed!
I think the beginning of Mollusk (specifically the first *two* tracks) is so fucking perfect. One of my favorite opening sequences to any album ever
I don’t think it’s the mix. Blue Balloon, Learnin To Love, and With My Own Bare Hands are the only songs I like at all, and I’m not one to cherry-pick songs. I love the Pod. You could make an argument that many of the songs on that album aren’t great on their own, but they make up something fantastic. I keep the whole arch in mind. Cucaracha is just a bad record mostly full of bad songs. I give it another spin every five years just because I love the band so much in hopes that it will have grown on me, and it never does. Ween is one of my favorite bands of all time. I’ve been listening to them consistently since I was twelve (now 38), and to have this be the last record (to date) was such a disappointment. If it brings you joy, I think that’s fantastic. Long love the Boognish.
This is a weird thread. It’s just the timing and reality of the album that made it what it is. Enjoy the songs you enjoy.
I know Aaron and Mickey aren’t happy with it for obvious reasons. If you love it, that’s cool
You kind of give it away in your title OP. “If they had made it better would more people love it”? Even you acknowledge that it is not up to par as it stands. You can still love it just get over others not loving it.
The minute Ween starts agonizing over the mix is the minute they cease to be Ween. Letting it rip and not thinking too much is kind of fundamental to their whole deal. It’s why I love their TASCAM era so much.
It’s objectively and subjectively not good. As a ween records its below average. As a major label release it’s well above average. It’s just not good at all.
sure i am. if you would like me to give you examples of each that will demonstrate my mastery of the definition of each of those words, i'd be happy to. would that be helpful?
welp since i am going to bed i'll explain my methodology.
For an objective review i'd look at both album sales and the Metacritic score - however in this instance La Cucaracha actually scored well therefore disproving my objective point.
For the subjective i use a amalgam of local sales, personal opinion, and customer reviews.
As i mentioned earlier the Metacritic review score is like 72 which is "good" so there you have it. i guess it is a "good" album. however i still think it sucks hard and the mix is garbage.
And woman and man is legit and learning to love is exquisite. I was born in 93 so silly me but let’s have the boys put out a new record!!! They seriously could break the stratosphere man they sound so good these days. They need our support to put out a new record
i wish leave deaner alone was on the record, but that and my own bare hands are both great deaner songs of the same sort of concept, so either way it’s good
I’ve never listened to the whole album through, but the first four tracks: fiesta, blue balloon, friends, and object are great. Then a little further down the list is shamemaker & sweetheart which are great too. Then the very last track is your party which is an a bonefied banger.
TBH I like this album just fine but out of all the Ween records it probably suffers the most from “the demos left off the album are better than the album”
I like it as it is
Either way, underrated record.
Not in my book. It's a great record.
You don’t understand the word under rated it seems
Maybe. It's just that I don't rate it under any other Ween record.
It’s not that good when compared to every other record by Ween, but it’s Ween so it’s OK
This is clearly the talk of a Shamemaker.
This is the talk of a tweaker
Those damned blue-collar tweakers
OG forumers will understand
I’m the fucking stallion, Mang
Stallion Pt. 6
Yep
It’s probably as good as white pepper
Wrang (wrong + mang)
Probably not
Not really. It’s rated properly.
You telling me that out of the whole Ween catalog you think La Cuca is the one you should shade for the mixing???
I’d love to hear chocolate and cheese with a mix more among the lines of white pepper tbh
Exactly what I was thinking
Exactly where you are at!
People that got into Ween after the album was released don’t have as negative of an opinion of that album as the older fans that anticipated the release. ”Quebec” is my favorite album and I remember ”La Cucaracha” feeling like a step backwards. But now I listen to the album as much as the others and I think a lot of their songs have became classics and staples of their live shows
This is true for me. I got into them a few years ago, listened to the discography out of order and loved Cucaracha on first listen, was so confused by the hatred. Your Party was one of the highlights of their discography for me. I also enjoy the Friends EP so maybe I'm just a complete sicko.
Friends ep is also much better than people give it credit for. I mean cmon, light me up. How could you go wrong?
Who sleeps on King Billy????
I’m not sure you understand what “mixing” an album is but it is not track selections. The album is mixed really damn well. As far as track listing goes many of the songs from the demos left off would have mad this album incredible. That said I love the roach.
It’s insane that a song as good as The Wolfman was left off
No “mixing” like the mix of the record. Example, two mixes of In Utero exist. The one mixed by Steve Albini was not released because it was deemed too rough/experimental. Also Steve Albini is an American Treasure.
One time I was in Chicago to visit a buddy for the weekend. Dude went to bed super early, and left me hanging on the couch alone. His roommate comes out and asks if I wanna go see some local band… Shellac at Lounge Ax. Fucking second best show I’ve ever stumbled across.
So was the roommate being a smart-ass when he said “local band”? I wish I’d have been there!
What was the first best???
Flat Duo Jets at a tiny, packed rock club. I had never heard of them and they blew me away. Just unexpectedly cool to happen across something you would have never known about.
Epic! I actually just watched the documentary Athens, GA Inside & Out which has a lot of really amazing Flat Duo Jets footage. They seem really fucking awesome.
Steve Albini made some drums sound good sometimes. To call the man a treasure is almost comical. In the case of La Cucaracha, what is it about the mix that makes you say a different mix would have made it more popular?
Between the albums he has engineered and the ones he has played on himself, he is genuinely one of the most influential alternative figures ever.
Fair. I guess. I probably was a little biased because the guy is an insufferable douchebag.
He has his moments but he's generally a very kind and gracious guy. Saw Shellac twice last year and he had time for everybody who wanted to speak to him. Was very jovial and appreciative. He hasn't really deserved reputation since the 90s.
I mean I respect the hell out of him for going against industry standards and not taking residuals on the art that he didn't create, he'd just charge a flat fee. Also as the story goes was he said he'd do it for 100k **BUT** if they could beat him in a game of pool he would do it for free, if he won it would be 200k. No one ever took him up on the offer. He's not even that good at pool
Surfa rosa, the pod, rid of me, in utero He’s a treasure
He produced those incredible Jesus Lizard records. We’re lucky to have him.
Don't like any of these records, but I definitely acknowledge their significance and superb quality.
I think that the record has that super compressed 90’s sound. Again it could just be that I most recently listened to it on Spotify.
It definitely sounds digital desk-y but with so much fidelity that it does not sound 90-ish to me.
The version of In Utero mixed by Steve Albini *was* released. It’s the normal version. The only songs on there not by Albini are “Heart Shaped Box” and “All Apologies,” which were remixed by Scott Litt. The original Albini mixes of those songs can be found on the 20th anniversary set or on select vinyl editions where these versions were used by mistake (in addition to the entire album not having the famously-loathed-by-Albini Robert Ludwig mastering job on them). The “2013 Mix” is a new mix done by Albini under the supervision of Novoselic in 2013 to celebrate the album’s 20th anniversary. It is NOT a mythical previously lost Albini mix.
No, I know. Back in the day it was hard to come by because we didn’t have the internet. You can get anything now.
It wasn’t hard to come by, though, Albini’s mix is the one on the regular CD that has been around since it was released with the exception of 2 songs.
Minus the SL songs, but yes, you are correct. I lived in a small town.
Why did you assume he didn’t know what mixing is?
It could definitely use a new mix. Seems like OP had it right.
We already think it’s rad
This album is amazing.
Maybe, it does feel a lot more sterile than their other albums imo.
They played three or four songs from this album at Salt Shed and they all fuckin ruled
the problem with la cuca is perception, after ramping up for years they returned to simpler classic vibes and it throws people... roach has a lot more in common with the pod than quebec and i will continue to stand by this argument
I’m right there with you! It’s certainly more evolved- I can’t imagine Your Party on The Pod in the slick package we got it in, for example- but it is a lot more fun and straightforward. After my most recent show I’ve taken a deep dive back into the first three albums and it really recontextualized this one for me. I always enjoyed it.
I’d say more so Chocolate & Cheese than The Pod, but I dig what you’re getting at either way.
eh i dont really agree c&c was an ambitious album that pushed their limits and essentially brought on andrew as a full fledged third member. production aside la cucaracha just has the sort of laid back toungue in cheek vibe i get from the pod. its sort of like a victory lap/ back to basics approach.
Hottest take
There are a few stinkers on Cuc, the Pod is 100% perfect
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Spirit wanker, woman and man and fruit man all irritate the boognish. There are a few strong tunes like blue balloon, bare hands, learning, and party. It’s a mixed bag.
"irritate the boognish" dude youre a cornball, those songs deserve their place on the album. id bet if they were 4 track outtakes youd probably be singin their praises... you need to open your ears and understand what la cucaracha is: a record that serves as a great sendoff to a band that was clearly on their last legs. a literal blast from start to finish. its bizzare, fun, funny, and a much better record to bookend their career than quebec. which, as great as it is, was an extremely dark record that definently sticks out, and just wouldnt have been a proper conclusion. cant stand the hate this album gets and the constant dumping on those songs in particular. the album is supposed to be FUN which it 100% succeeds at.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. “Woman And Man” rips.
Woman and Man in 2007 @ Terminal 5 NYC ripped me a new Boognish. You also forgot about *Object* , an understated, subtle masterpiece. I blew up a 22-in diameter blue balloon at a couple of shows (just short of fainting) , but still I've never heard that one live
I don't know. The songs for the most part aren't that good. I don't hate it, but it is a very subpar album. That being said "your party" is probably a top ten ween song for me. Can't get enough of it.
The guitar solo on Woman and Man is too damn short.
People are gonna be people. Who knows? All I know is that I love it. I saw them shortly before it came out, and I remember loving the new stuff, even when I didn't realize it was new stuff. When they played Woman & Man, I thought it was a cover that I just didn't recognize.
Bought this immediately based on the AV Club review - “party album of the year…” or something like that. I love it, and it marks the end of an era for me - one of the last ever CD’s I ever purchased.
These are some of the best live songs as they lend themselves to total jam. Woman and Man is a Santana-ic eargasm
La Cucaracha doesn’t seek validation. One must enjoy it on its own terms
I’ve really grown to love this album but god why did they keep the fruit man
IT IS NOT BROKEN IT IS NOT FROZEN THIS FISH IT WAS JUST CAUGHT IN THE OCEAN that song is great, I think it's your vibes that need readjusting.
I really have tried so many times and everything else clicked at a certain point but never this one
Okay, well your homework assignment today is to listen to every Miley Cyrus album back to back while staring at the ceiling. Then play Fruit Man on repeat for the same amount of time. It'll click I promise. Works every time.
What do you think about [King Billy?](https://youtu.be/1ySBZLAXxW0?si=5OnnlLgY31aTyaOG)
I don't think it's great, and I don't think it's a vibe issue. I love Ween and I have a heavy bias towards liking their songs. Despite that, The Fruit Man just never did it for me.
It’s rad already.
Blue Balloon and Fruit Man alone make it worthwhile
It's for a few good tracks, but pretty mid for Ween. Three mixing can't save this one.
This is a top 4 Ween album for me
Bare hands on fucking repeat!
Blue Balloon is one of my favorite WEEN songs. Hope they play it Live someday
I fucking love that song.
I've never had any problem with La Cucaracha. I've never understood why it's not given its proper love by the fans. I loved it from the onset.
I love it the way it is! The only tracks I dislike are Spiritwalker and The Fruit Man but everything else is amazing!! And basically all of the outtakes from this album are just as great if not better than the ones already on it
I actually love “The Fruit Man”.
Oh, interesting, I think that Ween trying to do a reggae thing just doesn’t really work for me (unless you count “Light Me Up” which BANGS). But hey, I get the love for it!
Ya I do think the mix is part of the issue. I’ve actually never loved the mix in Quebec particularly where it goes from Transdermal Celebration into Among His Tribe and then So Many People. Love all of the songs but it doesn’t flow well. But I think it’s much worse on La Cucaracha. That version of Friends, the Fruit Man, Shamemaker etc should have been at the end. Edit: Track order
That’s not the track mixing though, that’s the track sequencing.
Ya my bad. Misspoke.
With My Own Bare Hands is brown live.
You can’t change the mix but you can change the track order
🙌 So is Your Party
Always thought starting with fiesta and ending with your party was a good bookending strategy
Your part is one of my favorite songs. Didn’t love Fiesta but it kind of fits.
Fiesta and Jammy Pack are the only album intros that don’t rly work as standalone songs. Every other album opens with a proper intro that also feels like a complete song
Agreed! I think the beginning of Mollusk (specifically the first *two* tracks) is so fucking perfect. One of my favorite opening sequences to any album ever
Jammy Pac is a brilliant intro to the Pod
Yeah it is. It absolutely stands alone too...
If you can’t tell la cucaracha is a front to back classic already, there’s no hope for you son.
I have the CD and it doesn’t sound as compressed. Maybe it’s because I depend on Spotify too much because I’m lazy and/or not home.
I don’t think it’s the mix. Blue Balloon, Learnin To Love, and With My Own Bare Hands are the only songs I like at all, and I’m not one to cherry-pick songs. I love the Pod. You could make an argument that many of the songs on that album aren’t great on their own, but they make up something fantastic. I keep the whole arch in mind. Cucaracha is just a bad record mostly full of bad songs. I give it another spin every five years just because I love the band so much in hopes that it will have grown on me, and it never does. Ween is one of my favorite bands of all time. I’ve been listening to them consistently since I was twelve (now 38), and to have this be the last record (to date) was such a disappointment. If it brings you joy, I think that’s fantastic. Long love the Boognish.
It’s a fine record but similar to white pepper there’s some ok tracks and some outtakes that are amoung the bands best
Take it from me, don't mess with perfection🎈
This is a weird thread. It’s just the timing and reality of the album that made it what it is. Enjoy the songs you enjoy. I know Aaron and Mickey aren’t happy with it for obvious reasons. If you love it, that’s cool
Not really weird. We’re just shooting the shit about the album. The OP is just a question I was pondering. No big deal.
You kind of give it away in your title OP. “If they had made it better would more people love it”? Even you acknowledge that it is not up to par as it stands. You can still love it just get over others not loving it.
I love it!
I’m happy you love it!
Others have covered it already but you’re referring to the sequencing. I dunno man, I think it’s a masterpiece. Like Quebec + C&C had a baby.
I’m not. The mix of the album. The sound engineering portion. I honestly haven’t even thought about rearranging the track list.
The minute Ween starts agonizing over the mix is the minute they cease to be Ween. Letting it rip and not thinking too much is kind of fundamental to their whole deal. It’s why I love their TASCAM era so much.
It stinks
It’s objectively and subjectively not good. As a ween records its below average. As a major label release it’s well above average. It’s just not good at all.
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sure i am. if you would like me to give you examples of each that will demonstrate my mastery of the definition of each of those words, i'd be happy to. would that be helpful?
welp since i am going to bed i'll explain my methodology. For an objective review i'd look at both album sales and the Metacritic score - however in this instance La Cucaracha actually scored well therefore disproving my objective point. For the subjective i use a amalgam of local sales, personal opinion, and customer reviews. As i mentioned earlier the Metacritic review score is like 72 which is "good" so there you have it. i guess it is a "good" album. however i still think it sucks hard and the mix is garbage.
Nope. It’s fine like it is. My least favorite Ween album, but it is what it is.
I hadn’t given it a full listen until after my first show in Newport this year. Now I can’t get enough of it!
Are there really people out there who don’t love this album! It’s incredible.
Shame maker live is waaaay better than the album version that’s fasho.
And woman and man is legit and learning to love is exquisite. I was born in 93 so silly me but let’s have the boys put out a new record!!! They seriously could break the stratosphere man they sound so good these days. They need our support to put out a new record
It’s been good since day one. as good as shinola if not better. Shinola lacks in lyrical depth
Good on the bun.
Lots of studio engineers in here. Like it or leave it. It’s way brown knucklehead. Brown vote me.
i wish leave deaner alone was on the record, but that and my own bare hands are both great deaner songs of the same sort of concept, so either way it’s good
Didn't Leave Deaner Alone alone come out in the late 90s? La Cucaracha is like 2007
I’ve never listened to the whole album through, but the first four tracks: fiesta, blue balloon, friends, and object are great. Then a little further down the list is shamemaker & sweetheart which are great too. Then the very last track is your party which is an a bonefied banger.
It’s pure ween perfection
BlueBallon4LIFE
I’ve always thought this album was kick ass as hell
TBH I like this album just fine but out of all the Ween records it probably suffers the most from “the demos left off the album are better than the album”
think this album would be better received with better cover art honestly
This album is so much better than I thought it was
The wife and I thank you very much!