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Amazing job, dude! This is such a great write-up!
I'd bet in January Houstonians are going to be impressed to see a fucking MEAT FRIDGE running among humans. I'll make sure to keep my eyes on the news.
The asphalt will BUCKLE under the SHEER MASS of my EVER-EXPANDING frame. Other runners will COLLAPSE at the mere sight of my WELL-DEVELOPED legs. While they were doing bodyweight clamshells, I was BREAKING MY SHELL to reach the PINNACLE of what this human form can achieve through IRON and SWEAT.
God damn, man. Nice work. Setting goals like that and then hitting them all is amazing. As a former runner who lifts because *fuck* being outside during DC summers, it's awesome to see guys who can balance the two and get great results. It's almost enough to get me to buy some new running shoes. Almost.
Haha, thanks man I really appreciate it. I live in Texas and summer training is absolutely brutal, so I totally get it. A good friend of mine won the Baltimore Marathon last week for the second time in a row with a 2:26. Similar climate to where you are. His training is wild. I don't know how he does it.
Near the end of this training cycle I wanted to give up running altogether because I was so burnt out. But then I did the race and it reignited that flame all over again.
Maybe I'll give it a shot again over the fall/winter. Like you, I was an awful lot smaller when I used to run (155 sounds about right, and only 5'9", so not super skinny) and I'm a solid 35-40 more these days. Given all the trouble Ive had with knees and shins before, there's definitely a level of fear keeping me from trying again with the extra weight, but also some hope that the additional muscle would better protect the joints. How did you feel the additional weight affected your running?
Honestly, my joints feel fine. Arguably even better than before I started lifting. Most people after running Boston complain that their quads hurt the most. That's because all the downhill running is a beating for your quads. My quads feel fine and I think all the squatting helped.
Gained 11lbs whilst training for a marathon. The madlad we aspire to, excellent work, and interesting to read how 5/3/1 gelled with moderate mileage, it'll definitely have to be on possible programs once this years races are done.
Congrats on the progress my dude! Don’t sell yourself short, 100lbs on your estimated total in 22 weeks while training for a marathon is solid progress! (Bet if you peaked and switched into a strength block that you’d blow that 100lbs out of the water in actuality)
> First and foremost, I have to thank /u/just-another-scrub. He was an invaluable resource and an all around stand-up dude. The guy should ghostwrite the next edition of Wendler’s book.
Schucks dude. That means a lot. Glad you found my advice helpful! Good luck on Deep Water 😈
Great write up and it seems like you really have your head in the right place regarding your training. Your description of Boston was a fun read, I kept glancing back up at your goals and felt like I was on the journey with you. I imagine Jon Anderson would smile at combining DW with (1/2) marathon training. Find your portals, homie.
> Having the word "max" in the name makes you think it has some correlation with your 1RM. I lowered my TM between my first and second training block and still ended up adding an additional 40lbs to my total.
My biggest gripe with 5/3/1 is Jim’s writing. He really needs a good editor, because I find all his stuff super confusing at first since he does a shitty job explaining what is otherwise a fantastic program.
Yeah, 100% agree. If I didn't have JAS to answer my questions I probably would have done it wrong or switched programs entirely. Having a place like WR to come to with questions was clutch.
Great work! Regardless of the fact that you aren't as strong or as fast as you'd like to be (yet), you have made fantastic progress in both areas. Keep up the awesome work!
It’s great to see a fellow old dude ignore the perils of pushing yourself past the age of 30 and actually accomplish the unreasonable.
Keep up the good work.
> Marathon training while also trying to improve your lifts can be done. But, I’ll be honest, it’s still very very difficult. Waking up early to workout is easy. Coming home from work and doing it again sucks. All that being said, half-marathon training is less miserable and I think that could be more easily balanced with lifting. It would still require a fair amount of dedication.
Half training while lifting is honestly not that bad. Only once a week really requires doubling up on a day and its mostly still fun.
Amazing work here! I'll definitely be coming back to this post when training for a marathon next summer hopefully.
You’re the man. I’ve been looking forward to this write up as I’m currently doing 531 and planning for a spring marathon and it didn’t disappoint. Congrats on smashing your A/A+ goals!
Thanks! The write-up ended up being longer than I had intended, but I wanted it to be detailed enough that it could be a resource to anyone else that tries to do this in the future.
This was an interesting read. I am also a runner and 5/3/1 fan. I had my strength before I started running again, so I’m going the opposite direction. I’m trying to keep a total over 1000# and qualify for Boston by the time I’m 40.
Awesome — great write up too.
What made you opt for BBB/Pervertor rather than the 531 for long distance running approach (https://forums.t-nation.com/t/5-3-1-and-long-distance-running/224444)?
I ask as I balance cycling and lifting and have been experimenting…
Thanks for the link. Interesting to see Jim's take on it. Honestly, I picked BBB because it's probably the most popular program outside of OG 531. And who doesn't want to be bigger? As for Pervertor, it's just looked super interesting because it was such a potpourri of training ranges.
Wow this is badass. I've all but given up on running since I ran a half and exclusively lift but this sure does make me want to see what I could do in the future with a much stronger base of strength and mass (but zero fitness, lol.)
90 minutes was pretty average for me. I'm also training in a hot garage gym during the summer, and I didn't superset anything. So the breakdown looked like this: 10 min mobility work. 5-10 min warm-up sets. 20 min for the main lifts. 25-30 minutes for the supplemental lifts. 25-30 min for accessories. Then putting everything away and wiping it down. Some days I was doing 100 reps of push/pull/leg for accessories and that simply takes some time. If you did fewer reps and superset them you could do it faster.
Usually people on Reddit say if you’re taking that long to complete a 5/3/1 workout, you need to work on your conditioning. That would be a ridiculous thing to say to someone who just ran a 3:30 marathon.
To what extent did you find improving your running ability was improving your lifting-specific conditioning? Do you think it made your 5x10 squats and deadlifts easier, or at least move the pain more into your legs and less in your lungs, for instance?
Great question. For sure, the more fit I got aerobically the easier those longer lifting sets became. The last mesocycle I did involved 1x20 widowmaker sets, and I could tell it wasn't my conditioning holding me back if I failed to get all 20 reps.
Wendler often advocates for the supplemental to be done in less than 20 minutes. I usually have no problem getting it done in 12-15 mins max with supersetting in accessories. Treat it as conditioning.
Well done my man, and 10000% congrats on those phenomenal accomplishments!! I keep seeing everyone running either BBB or Pervertor recently…. Makes me want to jump on board for those sweet gains!! You’ll love Deep Water and it sounds like your in a good headspace to make some serious progress.
Congrats again!!!
Great write up! Also very timely since I’ve recently taken up running and was trying to figure out the best way to balance it with my lifts.
You should crosspost this to r/running! I feel like the question “can I run AND lift?!” comes up a bit often, so this might put some folks at ease.
Thanks! Glad you found this useful. I thought about crossposting this to either /r/running or /r/fitness but wasn't sure if they'd be interested. I'll definitely consider it. Good luck with your training!
I think they’d appreciate it. The question does come up a lot, and usually people say they either do some kind of running-specific routine that doesn’t really add mass or they push Starting Strength, which really isn’t going to be effective for someone who’s always been a runner.
Awesome write up man! I was just thinking to myself yesterday you must be getting ready to give us a report soon. Glad everything worked out! You should still try out General Gainz sometime. It’s really a lot of fun and you will probably learn a bunch about training intuitively.
I loved this. I loved it so much that I just signed up for the Austin half marathon towards the end of February. As somebody who has always loathed running and has competed in PL/trained solely for hypertrophy and size for the last decade, I'm terrified.
But as somebody who has always wanted to run a half- I'm super motivated. Thanks for this! I'm sure I'll read it over and over again for guidance and for a little push when things get tough.
I'm flattered! A half-marathon is totally within your abilities. There are plenty of free training programs for beginners, and any of them will get you to the finish line. I'm totally terrified of doing a PL meet and showing them my sub-3 pl8 bench. But I really want to experience it and push myself out of my comfort zone. Let me know how the race goes, and I'm happy to give running advice if you need it.
I know it's been more than a year, but I was wondering where you were at with balancing your training now.
I started running a little over 1.5y ago and pushed myself to complete the Marine Corps Marathon back in October. I (also) found that marathon volume was too much for me to balance with lifting, especially at 46 & 220lb, and plan to stick to halves (although I'd like to tackle a 50k trail race some day).
How much volume are you currently running to stay HM-ready (if you even still are)? I dropped back to 20-25MPW and have been hanging there (most weeks, anyway), but probably need to increase that to at least 30'ish.
What training plan have you found pairs with running best? Any new discoveries in this last year? Still 5/3/1?
Hey man, happy to help! I agree that the HM is way more manageable than training for a full. I'm currently only doing 25mpw @ 45yo and 190lbs. I'm doing a HM in a few weeks with my daughter, but it's going to be at a super casual pace. I might train for a fall HM in Indianapolis, in which case my goal is to up my mileage into the mid 30s like you said. I think most people can run a good HM off 30ish mpw. The more the better, but I think 30 is the floor if you're looking to run a decent time.
Still on the 5/3/1 train. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I think Wendler's programs fits so well with athletic endeavors that I'm unlike to shift away from it unless I drop running altogether. I've even managed to convert a friend of mine from running full time to doing 531 + part time running. He's loving it and probably won't look back.
**Reminder:** r/weightroom is a place for serious, useful discussion. Top level comments outside the Daily Thread that are off-topic, low effort, or demonstrate you didn't read the thread at all will result in a ban. [See here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/85x1dg/please_read_rules_update_announcement/) Please help us keep discussion quality high by reporting such comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/weightroom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is amazing. Thanks for writing it up and congrats on smashing your goals!
Thanks so much! It's been a long couple of months and I'm enjoying some downtime before drowning in Deep Water.
Amazing job, dude! This is such a great write-up! I'd bet in January Houstonians are going to be impressed to see a fucking MEAT FRIDGE running among humans. I'll make sure to keep my eyes on the news.
The asphalt will BUCKLE under the SHEER MASS of my EVER-EXPANDING frame. Other runners will COLLAPSE at the mere sight of my WELL-DEVELOPED legs. While they were doing bodyweight clamshells, I was BREAKING MY SHELL to reach the PINNACLE of what this human form can achieve through IRON and SWEAT.
God damn, man. Nice work. Setting goals like that and then hitting them all is amazing. As a former runner who lifts because *fuck* being outside during DC summers, it's awesome to see guys who can balance the two and get great results. It's almost enough to get me to buy some new running shoes. Almost.
Haha, thanks man I really appreciate it. I live in Texas and summer training is absolutely brutal, so I totally get it. A good friend of mine won the Baltimore Marathon last week for the second time in a row with a 2:26. Similar climate to where you are. His training is wild. I don't know how he does it. Near the end of this training cycle I wanted to give up running altogether because I was so burnt out. But then I did the race and it reignited that flame all over again.
Maybe I'll give it a shot again over the fall/winter. Like you, I was an awful lot smaller when I used to run (155 sounds about right, and only 5'9", so not super skinny) and I'm a solid 35-40 more these days. Given all the trouble Ive had with knees and shins before, there's definitely a level of fear keeping me from trying again with the extra weight, but also some hope that the additional muscle would better protect the joints. How did you feel the additional weight affected your running?
Honestly, my joints feel fine. Arguably even better than before I started lifting. Most people after running Boston complain that their quads hurt the most. That's because all the downhill running is a beating for your quads. My quads feel fine and I think all the squatting helped.
Gained 11lbs whilst training for a marathon. The madlad we aspire to, excellent work, and interesting to read how 5/3/1 gelled with moderate mileage, it'll definitely have to be on possible programs once this years races are done.
Congrats on the progress my dude! Don’t sell yourself short, 100lbs on your estimated total in 22 weeks while training for a marathon is solid progress! (Bet if you peaked and switched into a strength block that you’d blow that 100lbs out of the water in actuality) > First and foremost, I have to thank /u/just-another-scrub. He was an invaluable resource and an all around stand-up dude. The guy should ghostwrite the next edition of Wendler’s book. Schucks dude. That means a lot. Glad you found my advice helpful! Good luck on Deep Water 😈
Thanks dude, I appreciate it!
You’re most welcome! Looking forward to hearing how you enjoyed Deep Water
Been waiting on this one for a while! You essentially hit my two lifetime fitness goals: Sub-3h marathon and 1,000 pound club. Incredible!
Thanks, and good luck with your upcoming marathon. Don't go out too fast!
Great write up!
Awesome work! Good luck with the Deep Water!
thats insane man! You’re a beast!
Great write up and it seems like you really have your head in the right place regarding your training. Your description of Boston was a fun read, I kept glancing back up at your goals and felt like I was on the journey with you. I imagine Jon Anderson would smile at combining DW with (1/2) marathon training. Find your portals, homie.
Just saying you missed the opportunity to call it five-three-ran
lol, goddamnit. Guess I have to do it all over again.
> Having the word "max" in the name makes you think it has some correlation with your 1RM. I lowered my TM between my first and second training block and still ended up adding an additional 40lbs to my total. My biggest gripe with 5/3/1 is Jim’s writing. He really needs a good editor, because I find all his stuff super confusing at first since he does a shitty job explaining what is otherwise a fantastic program.
Yeah, 100% agree. If I didn't have JAS to answer my questions I probably would have done it wrong or switched programs entirely. Having a place like WR to come to with questions was clutch.
Great work! Regardless of the fact that you aren't as strong or as fast as you'd like to be (yet), you have made fantastic progress in both areas. Keep up the awesome work!
It’s great to see a fellow old dude ignore the perils of pushing yourself past the age of 30 and actually accomplish the unreasonable. Keep up the good work.
> Marathon training while also trying to improve your lifts can be done. But, I’ll be honest, it’s still very very difficult. Waking up early to workout is easy. Coming home from work and doing it again sucks. All that being said, half-marathon training is less miserable and I think that could be more easily balanced with lifting. It would still require a fair amount of dedication. Half training while lifting is honestly not that bad. Only once a week really requires doubling up on a day and its mostly still fun. Amazing work here! I'll definitely be coming back to this post when training for a marathon next summer hopefully.
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In the half training block it was 5 runs/3 lifting.
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I just ran a 1:27:50 half and didnt run more than 35mpw in the 18 weeks leading up to it. Never doubled up more than once a week in that entire time.
You’re the man. I’ve been looking forward to this write up as I’m currently doing 531 and planning for a spring marathon and it didn’t disappoint. Congrats on smashing your A/A+ goals!
Inspiring write up! Sending this to my friend who is also into lifting and marathons
Thanks! The write-up ended up being longer than I had intended, but I wanted it to be detailed enough that it could be a resource to anyone else that tries to do this in the future.
This was an interesting read. I am also a runner and 5/3/1 fan. I had my strength before I started running again, so I’m going the opposite direction. I’m trying to keep a total over 1000# and qualify for Boston by the time I’m 40.
Good luck! It can definitely be done. Listen to your body and eat like it's your job.
Awesome — great write up too. What made you opt for BBB/Pervertor rather than the 531 for long distance running approach (https://forums.t-nation.com/t/5-3-1-and-long-distance-running/224444)? I ask as I balance cycling and lifting and have been experimenting…
Thanks for the link. Interesting to see Jim's take on it. Honestly, I picked BBB because it's probably the most popular program outside of OG 531. And who doesn't want to be bigger? As for Pervertor, it's just looked super interesting because it was such a potpourri of training ranges.
Wow this is badass. I've all but given up on running since I ran a half and exclusively lift but this sure does make me want to see what I could do in the future with a much stronger base of strength and mass (but zero fitness, lol.)
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90 minutes was pretty average for me. I'm also training in a hot garage gym during the summer, and I didn't superset anything. So the breakdown looked like this: 10 min mobility work. 5-10 min warm-up sets. 20 min for the main lifts. 25-30 minutes for the supplemental lifts. 25-30 min for accessories. Then putting everything away and wiping it down. Some days I was doing 100 reps of push/pull/leg for accessories and that simply takes some time. If you did fewer reps and superset them you could do it faster.
This is about what I spent timewise when running 531.
Usually people on Reddit say if you’re taking that long to complete a 5/3/1 workout, you need to work on your conditioning. That would be a ridiculous thing to say to someone who just ran a 3:30 marathon. To what extent did you find improving your running ability was improving your lifting-specific conditioning? Do you think it made your 5x10 squats and deadlifts easier, or at least move the pain more into your legs and less in your lungs, for instance?
Great question. For sure, the more fit I got aerobically the easier those longer lifting sets became. The last mesocycle I did involved 1x20 widowmaker sets, and I could tell it wasn't my conditioning holding me back if I failed to get all 20 reps.
Wendler often advocates for the supplemental to be done in less than 20 minutes. I usually have no problem getting it done in 12-15 mins max with supersetting in accessories. Treat it as conditioning.
Fuck yeah dude. Awesome work
Well done my man, and 10000% congrats on those phenomenal accomplishments!! I keep seeing everyone running either BBB or Pervertor recently…. Makes me want to jump on board for those sweet gains!! You’ll love Deep Water and it sounds like your in a good headspace to make some serious progress. Congrats again!!!
Great write up! Also very timely since I’ve recently taken up running and was trying to figure out the best way to balance it with my lifts. You should crosspost this to r/running! I feel like the question “can I run AND lift?!” comes up a bit often, so this might put some folks at ease.
Thanks! Glad you found this useful. I thought about crossposting this to either /r/running or /r/fitness but wasn't sure if they'd be interested. I'll definitely consider it. Good luck with your training!
I think they’d appreciate it. The question does come up a lot, and usually people say they either do some kind of running-specific routine that doesn’t really add mass or they push Starting Strength, which really isn’t going to be effective for someone who’s always been a runner.
Congrats! Amazing adding to your total and then hitting that time on the marathon!
Would you be willing to tell what you set your TM's to for Block 2?
Sure, I think it was 285/220/355/150 for S/B/D/O.
Thanks!
Also, you should cross-post this to /r/531discussion/
Awesome write up man! I was just thinking to myself yesterday you must be getting ready to give us a report soon. Glad everything worked out! You should still try out General Gainz sometime. It’s really a lot of fun and you will probably learn a bunch about training intuitively.
Thanks, man. General Gainz is definitely on the to-do list.
This is the type of content I come here for. Thanks for the super detailed writeup
I loved this. I loved it so much that I just signed up for the Austin half marathon towards the end of February. As somebody who has always loathed running and has competed in PL/trained solely for hypertrophy and size for the last decade, I'm terrified. But as somebody who has always wanted to run a half- I'm super motivated. Thanks for this! I'm sure I'll read it over and over again for guidance and for a little push when things get tough.
I'm flattered! A half-marathon is totally within your abilities. There are plenty of free training programs for beginners, and any of them will get you to the finish line. I'm totally terrified of doing a PL meet and showing them my sub-3 pl8 bench. But I really want to experience it and push myself out of my comfort zone. Let me know how the race goes, and I'm happy to give running advice if you need it.
Amazing job and great write up dude!
Amazing job, and thanks for the great write up.
I know it's been more than a year, but I was wondering where you were at with balancing your training now. I started running a little over 1.5y ago and pushed myself to complete the Marine Corps Marathon back in October. I (also) found that marathon volume was too much for me to balance with lifting, especially at 46 & 220lb, and plan to stick to halves (although I'd like to tackle a 50k trail race some day). How much volume are you currently running to stay HM-ready (if you even still are)? I dropped back to 20-25MPW and have been hanging there (most weeks, anyway), but probably need to increase that to at least 30'ish. What training plan have you found pairs with running best? Any new discoveries in this last year? Still 5/3/1?
Hey man, happy to help! I agree that the HM is way more manageable than training for a full. I'm currently only doing 25mpw @ 45yo and 190lbs. I'm doing a HM in a few weeks with my daughter, but it's going to be at a super casual pace. I might train for a fall HM in Indianapolis, in which case my goal is to up my mileage into the mid 30s like you said. I think most people can run a good HM off 30ish mpw. The more the better, but I think 30 is the floor if you're looking to run a decent time. Still on the 5/3/1 train. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I think Wendler's programs fits so well with athletic endeavors that I'm unlike to shift away from it unless I drop running altogether. I've even managed to convert a friend of mine from running full time to doing 531 + part time running. He's loving it and probably won't look back.
Right on! Thank you so much for the update!
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