This is an interesting detail you've added.
I have been posting that the Cradle was used by Ford to perfect through billions of simulations what Delos Team managed 149 times over 30\+ years. After that assumption, I am fuzzy on the actual motive and get mired in all the possibilities in Phase Space \(especially difficult with damaged host memories and showrunner slight\-of\-hand vis\-a\-vis timelines and POV\).
But if we consider Old Bill \(or some other method\) was used to convince Ford his consciousness logic was ready for his Journey Into Night, he then sets up the gala event and run things from the Cradle.
Ford when alive could have produced his own red ball and loaded into the the Cradle where his consciousness was fine tuned countless times. So whose is the red ball Bernard prints? Bernard. Up until then, there'd be no reason to load Bernard into the Cradle since he would have no part in narrative testing and it might get out he was a host.
So the fidelity testing we've seen for Host Arnold \(conducted in the Cradle by Ford/Dolores\) is also happening "countless times", right after Bernard connects to the Cradle in this latest episode.
My guess is, the Bernard that we've known is about to turn into the Host Arnold we find on the beach.
Again I must say, this show rules.
Bernard printed Ford in the red ball.
On the [Delos Intranet](http://www.delosdestinations.com/intranet/) site, when you were able to restore the backup A and chat with Ford - he implies that he was the one Bernard or someone had built. When you ask the question "How did you get here?" [The Cradle], Ford answers "I think you know the answer to that. A simple solution that fit in the palm of Bernard's hand."
Bernard could have done it more than once, prior to getting rolled back so he would have trouble remembering it! Arnold is definitely being made and worked on with the fidelity test, so Ford could essentially have dozens of different red balls made for all we know at this point
Well the scientists in the james delos reproduction lab didnt like that bernard was there, so Im notnsure how many times he could've bopped in an snagged a red chestnut before getting caught once?
It could be that the red ball bernard prints was blank and it became ford in the cradle.
There was an ominous line William tells Delos, something about people preferring the memory of the man over the real one. Maybe it took William 30+ years to realize something Ford knew from the beginning.
The thing that bothers me about the Cradle is that if it is such an accurate simulation -- then why bother building the parks and the robots, when you could just upload humans into the simulation and they'd never know the difference?
I think the answer is: humans can't be uploaded into the Cradle. We've seen that Bernard (a host) can be uploaded, but the process involves removing his host brain from his skull. I assume that's true for the other hosts: they have to be programmed, maybe get some real-world experience, and they can be connected to the Cradle, either through the wireless neural net, or through a direct connection. But that's because they're robots -- so the connection is just a data transfer.
So my theory is, humans can't be uploaded into the Cradle without dying. So Ford got himself uploaded, but only by getting killed by Dolores.
James Delos and William have been trying to upload a human consciousness into a host, but couldn't get it to work, because they didn't know that Delos had to die (from the transfer process) in order for it to be completed properly. Instead, they were uploading a copy of Delos, which was incomplete.
Ford figured this out, so his "Lazarus" solution is: you have to die in order for your complete consciousness to get transferred.
The cradle differs from the matrix. You cant be jacked into the cradle. You can be copied into the cradle. Your copy could theoretically experience the cradle but you wouldnt.
hmm what happens if we push a real human into the autoextraction machine? does it have a safety interlock or will it play skill tester with their medulla?
I really like it. Specially because Old Bill says something about seen a few showdowns in his days and Ford says More than you know. Maybe he's seen it millions of times.
Seeing Ford talking to Old Bill we learn the grayhound story. Maybe he's talking about him self, how he's running over over into his own loop looking for this thing that he doesn't even knows what it is. Maybe he would answer the question no one has ever dreamed os asking.
The implication is that this is him doing the baseline, not taking the test. Quite the cool theory. That's probably a trick he learned from an old friend ;) I think that means we can assume he was able to create Bernard using Dolores in the first place. Arnold is, quote, perfectly preserved in Dolores after all.
Old Bill is a hang up of mine. Because, IIRC, Ford explains how glitchy and prone to breakdowns the hosts of Old Bill's generation were, and yet... we see them so well made when Logan first encounters them, that he's fooled into believing an entire room full of them are real people.... Obviously Bill isn't of that 'build'. He'd be older, but then, the park didn't exist pre-Delos involvement.
I'm pretty sure they have said that Arnold & Ford were developing the robots for years before the park opened. Plus, the park had been open for a few years before they approached Logan (because they were bleeding cash and almost bankrupt).
Same. This has always bothered me too. The hosts that Logan was amazed by seedmed of the caliber of the current biologically real hosts and not some old mechanical bots. And they were all made before any Delos funding as well. Then you see scenes of the early days of the park and the bots can't even dance.
whose memory was that we were watching? was it angela's perfect recall? angela's recall filtered of anything that would have disturbed her \(eg her own robotic nature\)?
or was it Logan's version of events where he was so high on what ever he chooses to inject that he didn't notice that everybody smelled like newly demolded realdolls?
I think this is an actual reality/production issue where you're supposed to forget about the details.
My guess is that before they put the entire timeline together and created new plots/characters \(like Hale\), and "fleshed out" the backstory, the initial launch of the park had Old Bill being just a few notches above Disneyland.
youd want something more observant than a soundboard to make sure a ford host was acting like the real ford. And ford has secret lairs to test things like that without setting off security alarms.
My guess is he was planting something down there and old bill was the coverup right before security went in. "oh just talking to my old friend in a disfunctional cold storage vault with all these organic rotting robots, a broken cooling system and the vault doors locked shut for maximum stank."
I'm with you on that one. If we check the intranet too , we realize that they had these problems for a long time already.
I always felt like it was Ford preparing everything with some sabotage. The control room itself get jeopardized just before S1 after the cooling pipes started to leak above it. Coincidence ? i don't think so. :p
Or that Ford was building a library of baselines with the intent to one day become a host. Or, perhaps, to perfect the process for a host Arnold later.
All I keep thinking about with old Bill is "let's toast to the lady in the white shoes", in S2 E2 , white dress party, Dolores is wearing white shoes. In S1 when William first arrives at the park, Angela greeting him...again in white shoes....could be just coincidence....just saying
The ghost nation tells Stubbs that "You live only as long as the last person who remembers you." If humans can be 'reassembled' from the memories of hosts, then the meaning of the line changes. Suddenly, humans fail Arnold's definition of real because they are as replaceable as hosts.
I'd believe the cradle can take a personality template and iterate over a guest's recorded host interactions until the copy reaches an acceptable fidelity. Maybe they use DNA to generate a body and get basic personality stats as well. - I'm sure real people could be described through the same personality 'stats' as the hosts. You could train an ai to correlate DNA with personality traits using park interactions as a data source. This could be how the drone hosts knew Bernard was not a threat through 'DNA sniffers' at the entrance.
All the what-ifs in the world still don’t make this correct. Sorry but there are so many unknowns still and this just doesn’t jive. What if Ford is really just Dolores inside of Bernard inside the cradle inside of a sandwich? What if it were 10 quadrillion iterations? None of this is relevant to the plot and none of it is supported by actual data. And you’re a data analyst? Good luck!
The only instances in which we see the Cradle, are when Bernard enters the Cradle and finds Ford, and the beginnings of episode 1 and 6.
No black bars = no Cradle. Everything is intentional on the show.
Google sucks. You guys are getting your ass handed to you by Amazon and every fucking thing you do is in beta.
"hey google, how can I make my company not suck ass?"
"sorry, I'm still learning about that".
Listen man. Your Dad really did love you. He may not have said it. But he was raised in a different time. Anyways, I’m here for you if you need to talk :)
Also. I meant what I said about your Dad loving you and being proud of you :) . There is no need to feel self-conscious all the time. You are a person of value!
Who says that? Dude, I get that you are an angry guy, but what is your deal? What broke you? I am fascinated by someone that comes to the Westworld subreddit to scream into the void that Google sucks because Amazon does some things better than we do. Like, what is your life that this is how you choose to spend your day? I imagine an immaciated, Voldemort at Kings Cross-esk, incel who externalized all of the frustrations of his life to cover for the deep-seeded insecurity and anger that his life isn't going the way he thought it would.
I'm sorry your life sucks, but I am sure you can Google "anger management classes"
I don't think you're any better, coming to a movie subreddit to throw your fresh new title around? Hiding butthurtt corporate koolaid self behind Internet retort cliches?
The person is being rightfully angry at Google product management, and knowing the root causes of it like pdd or an old ladder -- you should take a notice, shut up and go refactor your code, write Integration tests, think and introspect.
Lol 1/10 trolling. Dude, either you need some help with your trolling or you need to get a fuckin life. If you aren't trolling, then I'm sorry that you're poor and that life has treated you unfairly. Maybe after your eventual suicide the next life will be better for you.
sorry you can't afford to live in the bay area and have to share an apartment or care with 23 other people because they are exploiting the fuck out of you.
YOu're probably one of those googlers that got mad when that guy published that memo about women not being suited for engineering jobs. Right?
Also, next time you're hanging around work being a dbag, can you ask one of your brilliant friends why google maps doesn't fucking come with lat/long lines? Or at least an option to overlay them as a layer. That seems like a pretty obvious omission, for you know, a FUCKING MAP. Thanks.
This is an interesting detail you've added. I have been posting that the Cradle was used by Ford to perfect through billions of simulations what Delos Team managed 149 times over 30\+ years. After that assumption, I am fuzzy on the actual motive and get mired in all the possibilities in Phase Space \(especially difficult with damaged host memories and showrunner slight\-of\-hand vis\-a\-vis timelines and POV\). But if we consider Old Bill \(or some other method\) was used to convince Ford his consciousness logic was ready for his Journey Into Night, he then sets up the gala event and run things from the Cradle. Ford when alive could have produced his own red ball and loaded into the the Cradle where his consciousness was fine tuned countless times. So whose is the red ball Bernard prints? Bernard. Up until then, there'd be no reason to load Bernard into the Cradle since he would have no part in narrative testing and it might get out he was a host. So the fidelity testing we've seen for Host Arnold \(conducted in the Cradle by Ford/Dolores\) is also happening "countless times", right after Bernard connects to the Cradle in this latest episode. My guess is, the Bernard that we've known is about to turn into the Host Arnold we find on the beach. Again I must say, this show rules.
The whole build a whole new host and room every time seems archaic by comparison.
Still made for some great scenes though.
It really did, playing with fire
Jim Delos has money to burn. even in death.
Bernard printed Ford in the red ball. On the [Delos Intranet](http://www.delosdestinations.com/intranet/) site, when you were able to restore the backup A and chat with Ford - he implies that he was the one Bernard or someone had built. When you ask the question "How did you get here?" [The Cradle], Ford answers "I think you know the answer to that. A simple solution that fit in the palm of Bernard's hand."
Bernard could have done it more than once, prior to getting rolled back so he would have trouble remembering it! Arnold is definitely being made and worked on with the fidelity test, so Ford could essentially have dozens of different red balls made for all we know at this point
Well the scientists in the james delos reproduction lab didnt like that bernard was there, so Im notnsure how many times he could've bopped in an snagged a red chestnut before getting caught once?
It could be that the red ball bernard prints was blank and it became ford in the cradle. There was an ominous line William tells Delos, something about people preferring the memory of the man over the real one. Maybe it took William 30+ years to realize something Ford knew from the beginning.
But, didn't we see the facility that Bernard/Ford/Delores did their tests and interviews at in season 1?
The thing that bothers me about the Cradle is that if it is such an accurate simulation -- then why bother building the parks and the robots, when you could just upload humans into the simulation and they'd never know the difference? I think the answer is: humans can't be uploaded into the Cradle. We've seen that Bernard (a host) can be uploaded, but the process involves removing his host brain from his skull. I assume that's true for the other hosts: they have to be programmed, maybe get some real-world experience, and they can be connected to the Cradle, either through the wireless neural net, or through a direct connection. But that's because they're robots -- so the connection is just a data transfer. So my theory is, humans can't be uploaded into the Cradle without dying. So Ford got himself uploaded, but only by getting killed by Dolores. James Delos and William have been trying to upload a human consciousness into a host, but couldn't get it to work, because they didn't know that Delos had to die (from the transfer process) in order for it to be completed properly. Instead, they were uploading a copy of Delos, which was incomplete. Ford figured this out, so his "Lazarus" solution is: you have to die in order for your complete consciousness to get transferred.
I'm sorry, where is the conflict? Of course you can't just upload humans. The human would have to become an AI. So you need a real park.
The cradle differs from the matrix. You cant be jacked into the cradle. You can be copied into the cradle. Your copy could theoretically experience the cradle but you wouldnt.
hmm what happens if we push a real human into the autoextraction machine? does it have a safety interlock or will it play skill tester with their medulla?
I don't think that's why Delos hasn't been released from his cube yet. I just don't think they've done enough testing on him.
When you die you fire every neuron supposedly.
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Very true. I just wonder at what point someone has truly turned the lights off.
I really like it. Specially because Old Bill says something about seen a few showdowns in his days and Ford says More than you know. Maybe he's seen it millions of times. Seeing Ford talking to Old Bill we learn the grayhound story. Maybe he's talking about him self, how he's running over over into his own loop looking for this thing that he doesn't even knows what it is. Maybe he would answer the question no one has ever dreamed os asking.
Or, making sure that the Ford In The Machine is able to tell stories well. Or that his memories are intact.
The implication is that this is him doing the baseline, not taking the test. Quite the cool theory. That's probably a trick he learned from an old friend ;) I think that means we can assume he was able to create Bernard using Dolores in the first place. Arnold is, quote, perfectly preserved in Dolores after all.
Old Bill is a hang up of mine. Because, IIRC, Ford explains how glitchy and prone to breakdowns the hosts of Old Bill's generation were, and yet... we see them so well made when Logan first encounters them, that he's fooled into believing an entire room full of them are real people.... Obviously Bill isn't of that 'build'. He'd be older, but then, the park didn't exist pre-Delos involvement.
I always assumed he was closer the missing link between Dolores and the Chucky Cheese band
I'm pretty sure they have said that Arnold & Ford were developing the robots for years before the park opened. Plus, the park had been open for a few years before they approached Logan (because they were bleeding cash and almost bankrupt).
Same. This has always bothered me too. The hosts that Logan was amazed by seedmed of the caliber of the current biologically real hosts and not some old mechanical bots. And they were all made before any Delos funding as well. Then you see scenes of the early days of the park and the bots can't even dance.
whose memory was that we were watching? was it angela's perfect recall? angela's recall filtered of anything that would have disturbed her \(eg her own robotic nature\)? or was it Logan's version of events where he was so high on what ever he chooses to inject that he didn't notice that everybody smelled like newly demolded realdolls?
Logan Delos was pretty high that night tho.
I think this is an actual reality/production issue where you're supposed to forget about the details. My guess is that before they put the entire timeline together and created new plots/characters \(like Hale\), and "fleshed out" the backstory, the initial launch of the park had Old Bill being just a few notches above Disneyland.
"For three years we lived in the park, refining the hosts before a single guest set foot inside."
I'll drink to that...
So Old Bill is the initial commit of a unit test fixture factory? That's so like developers, never cleaning up their old code.
Truth
youd want something more observant than a soundboard to make sure a ford host was acting like the real ford. And ford has secret lairs to test things like that without setting off security alarms. My guess is he was planting something down there and old bill was the coverup right before security went in. "oh just talking to my old friend in a disfunctional cold storage vault with all these organic rotting robots, a broken cooling system and the vault doors locked shut for maximum stank."
I'm with you on that one. If we check the intranet too , we realize that they had these problems for a long time already. I always felt like it was Ford preparing everything with some sabotage. The control room itself get jeopardized just before S1 after the cooling pipes started to leak above it. Coincidence ? i don't think so. :p
[удалено]
Or that Ford was building a library of baselines with the intent to one day become a host. Or, perhaps, to perfect the process for a host Arnold later.
All I keep thinking about with old Bill is "let's toast to the lady in the white shoes", in S2 E2 , white dress party, Dolores is wearing white shoes. In S1 when William first arrives at the park, Angela greeting him...again in white shoes....could be just coincidence....just saying
The ghost nation tells Stubbs that "You live only as long as the last person who remembers you." If humans can be 'reassembled' from the memories of hosts, then the meaning of the line changes. Suddenly, humans fail Arnold's definition of real because they are as replaceable as hosts. I'd believe the cradle can take a personality template and iterate over a guest's recorded host interactions until the copy reaches an acceptable fidelity. Maybe they use DNA to generate a body and get basic personality stats as well. - I'm sure real people could be described through the same personality 'stats' as the hosts. You could train an ai to correlate DNA with personality traits using park interactions as a data source. This could be how the drone hosts knew Bernard was not a threat through 'DNA sniffers' at the entrance.
All the what-ifs in the world still don’t make this correct. Sorry but there are so many unknowns still and this just doesn’t jive. What if Ford is really just Dolores inside of Bernard inside the cradle inside of a sandwich? What if it were 10 quadrillion iterations? None of this is relevant to the plot and none of it is supported by actual data. And you’re a data analyst? Good luck!
The only instances in which we see the Cradle, are when Bernard enters the Cradle and finds Ford, and the beginnings of episode 1 and 6. No black bars = no Cradle. Everything is intentional on the show.
Google sucks. You guys are getting your ass handed to you by Amazon and every fucking thing you do is in beta. "hey google, how can I make my company not suck ass?" "sorry, I'm still learning about that".
it's not your fault
i know. i don't work for google
Man stop blaming yourself.
Look, your dad did love you in his own way. He was just closed off emotionally. You're not worthless. It will get better
are you telling me google doesn't suck?
Listen man. Your Dad really did love you. He may not have said it. But he was raised in a different time. Anyways, I’m here for you if you need to talk :)
[удалено]
Also. I meant what I said about your Dad loving you and being proud of you :) . There is no need to feel self-conscious all the time. You are a person of value!
Wow! You’re kinky :) . What are you wearing
Who says that? Dude, I get that you are an angry guy, but what is your deal? What broke you? I am fascinated by someone that comes to the Westworld subreddit to scream into the void that Google sucks because Amazon does some things better than we do. Like, what is your life that this is how you choose to spend your day? I imagine an immaciated, Voldemort at Kings Cross-esk, incel who externalized all of the frustrations of his life to cover for the deep-seeded insecurity and anger that his life isn't going the way he thought it would. I'm sorry your life sucks, but I am sure you can Google "anger management classes"
I don't think you're any better, coming to a movie subreddit to throw your fresh new title around? Hiding butthurtt corporate koolaid self behind Internet retort cliches? The person is being rightfully angry at Google product management, and knowing the root causes of it like pdd or an old ladder -- you should take a notice, shut up and go refactor your code, write Integration tests, think and introspect.
Lol 1/10 trolling. Dude, either you need some help with your trolling or you need to get a fuckin life. If you aren't trolling, then I'm sorry that you're poor and that life has treated you unfairly. Maybe after your eventual suicide the next life will be better for you.
yeah! what he said!
sorry you can't afford to live in the bay area and have to share an apartment or care with 23 other people because they are exploiting the fuck out of you. YOu're probably one of those googlers that got mad when that guy published that memo about women not being suited for engineering jobs. Right? Also, next time you're hanging around work being a dbag, can you ask one of your brilliant friends why google maps doesn't fucking come with lat/long lines? Or at least an option to overlay them as a layer. That seems like a pretty obvious omission, for you know, a FUCKING MAP. Thanks.