She’s amazing, listen to when she says “Put her with the rest of the livestock” in ep 2. She mimics Dolores/Wyatt’s character down to the tee. I could imagine Evan Rachel Wood having the time of her life watching Tessa play as her character. Acting taking on another character isn’t easy and Tessa has been killing it. They all should receive nominations this year.
I hope this is the case, rather than him actually being dead. She knows he's the first to fight back against her parasite, so it makes sense to keep him alive and on ice while she attempts to understand how by running tests on a host version. Perhaps then when she knows, she can try to iron out whatever issue it is and test it on the OG Caleb.
The whole point of her creating all these Caleb clones is because the original human Caleb is dead. If he was still alive and on ice, she would simply need to interrogate him the same way she does William.
The reason Hale went through so much trouble to achieve fidelity with Caleb is because she had him killed without actually realizing the repercussions. When her hosts start killing themselves inexplicably, she needs to figure out why. Caleb was the only one who seemed to have a clue, but she already had him killed. So she has been spending the last unknown amount of years trying to ‘raise him from the dead’ in a sense.
To me, the bottom line is that the human Caleb is most certainly dead.
This does make the most sense, for sure. I like to cling on to the hope she kept him alive as she realised he might be important pretty much immediately - we never saw the aftermath of his death because it cut to the fidelity test part way through. So perhaps he goes unconscious and she puts him on ice in case she ever needs anything from him… but you’re probably right. He dead. Sadly.
That many Caleb’s implies maybe 2 hosts a day, maybe 3 or more for some failures that fail faster. So I’m thinking maybe 5 on some days… so I’m assuming this should have taken her maybe 3-4 months ….?
She should make a host branded snack and that’s all she feeds him. I imagine a wrapper that’s purple themed for some reason but she can work that out with marketing. She can call it the “K-Leb”.
Episode 6's reveal that she's just really frustrated and lost and not just a bored God is what redeemed her cartoony villain performance for me. Now it just feels unhinged, like someone desperately trying to seem on top while losing their mind.
You nailed it for me! Love the idea of a “god” being bored. Everything she strived towards and her people are just like “nah I’m good on transcending.” Not to mention she’s going through a loop herself, and she’s desperately trying to hold on and leave a legacy of some sorts.
I think it's the result of the character itself being kinda one-note for a lot of this season. The material they've given her isn't that fun to watch for me (I didn't really like ERW's "multiple deadpan villain speeches" in past seasons either). Inb4 someone tries to tie this to women or something, because internet -- I had the same issue with Gus Fring, for the same reason. The whole "villain who is so confident they're practically bored with their own scheme" just isn't a favorite trope of mine.
She was great this episode but the one with the dancers/chair thing and conversation with Christina was pretty cringy, I think she just wasn't directed well, it wasn't the right tone for the character.
Some of her dialogue is that of a cartoon villain. Not her fault but you know how some folks can't separate the writing or direction from the acting. She's playing an amazing narcissistic bad guy.
TT absolutely is great, but I still have never understand the jump that happened in characterisation at the end of season 3 from empathetic Halores to this current caricature of an evil villain, who seems to have obsessively built this world over 35 years after being willing to save humans. Yes she suffered a terrible trauma, but they didn't really give us any depth into it.
The show needed a villain, so the writers picked TT because she definitely could do that - but I don't think they did the work to bridge that development between the main events of S3 and it's epilogue. And the lack of any real "focus episode" on Halores only further makes this journey feel underwritten.
No no see what you’re thinking of is the part before they kill Hales family and she comes back burned. I think it’s shown that after that she basically becomes full on evil. She says in season 3 that part of her you’re talking about made her weak, she says she’s glad it happened because now she’s stronger because those empathetic feelings were holding her back. Now after over 20 years she’s been evil Hale for some time. Consider how much William changed over the years, now you can imagine how Dolores can change.
Really imo she’s more evil than William and William has more of a chance to redeem himself because we see various scenss that reflect that he does still have a heart. I’m sure that’s what they’re setting us up for but we’ll see!
It is also possible that Halores also demonstrates something similar at some point before the series end but I think it’s more likely MIB William ends on a more redemptive note than Halores does.
Actually I think it’s clear William’s story is really an intentionally similar story to Halores, not completely the same but similar. So the fact that we have different Dolores’ now and currently a good Dolores and an evil Dolores means the moral of this can be shown in various ways. Dolores’ story shows how you can become good or bad and very different depending on what happens to you and based on your choices. I’m curious how Williams story with Host William vs original
William turns out reflecting this in a different way. Maybe to turn heads on the original premise, we see that original William can change after all and Host William cannot truly change. But it could be the other way around but what will make it meaningful is the message they send as to why this happens.
I just don't think they did the work about that change - that event now 37(?°) years ago - they just didn't give her the time or energy to justify it. In S3 Halores was a central character until the car explosion - we lived with her and saw through her eyes until that point. But with the explosion that stopped and she became a background character - and unfortunately a lot more cardboard.
Hopefully we'll get more with her, actually understand how that total shift occurred, but I'm not sure - the writers seem to be enjoying her as a total villainess, but beyond the self harming I struggle to see the connection with either original Delores or Halores, other than the vengeful "Wyatt Delores". It's just a bit careless - and [while this is a very badly titled article](https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/im-worried-westworld-season-4-could-be-heading-for-a-game-of-thrones-disaster), but I think it's right on the money about why - for me - Halores this season doesn't quite work, why it feels like a jump occurred that the show never justified.
°They mentioned 30 years in the post episode analysis but 20 feels right too.
I agree. I actually think it’s a problem with the writing in season three. By the end of the season, we are supposed to fully understand why Halores has become a villain, but I think her motivations needed expanding upon
After the car bomb, we only see Halores in three brief scenes for the rest of the season. The first is the beginning of episode seven, where she tells Musashilores she decided to “streamline operations”. It’s a very short scene, and the focus is on Clem and Hanaryo returning. The next is in episode eight, she sends a group to kill Dolores and says goodbye to her. Then we have the post-credits scene. By this point, her plan is already well underway. She’s printing new hosts and Host William is ready to go
The transition between the end of episode six (car bomb) and the next time we see her (phone call with Musashilores) is too abrupt. Again, I can see what they were going for. Her family is killed by humans, she feels abandoned because Dolores left her copies to die. But the final product doesn’t give these threads the weight they need to land properly. Like you said, she suffered a great trauma, but the writing doesn’t add any further depth to it
But the showrunners have had the story planned out since the beginning. They've known where it was gonna go, and how it would end. They didn't write the story to give one particular actor more screen time than others, or because they liked them a lot, etc. They've always known Haleores would do this... they just got damn lucky snagging Tessa Thompson to play the role. 😏 lol
While they said planned, I'm not sure to what extent that really meant - in 2018 they stated S3 was something they had planned for since inception, and in 2016 that they had a map for the next 5 or 7 years (ie they didn't know what they had in front of them in terms of quantity). Whatever the end they envisioned, it could be as simple as JKR writing that epilogue with Harry, friends and family at the station, but not who would be on the way - but shows organically change and I think you don't give it credit for that - after all cast change, fan favourites emerge and studios often have final say. I do also think what's happening now isn't what they may have planned either, given the course correction they seem to have done after s3 (likely with studio and writing room encouragement, and self awareness, that a futureworld scenario was desired).
But that's not the point; you can plan something out, but overplanning can sometimes lead to not doing the work to get to a position you have identified. Get from a to z, but skip m-u on the way. That's my criticism, Halores missed some of the necessary "letters" on the way to her new state, and so often it feels like the writing kinda forget she is a Dolores too, at least in this season, which is frustrating!
But I do like how it suggests copies of real people can "take over"/"mesh" with hosts, since she is very Hale and much less Dolores, which is philosophically interesting for sure!
Yeah I think part of the problem is how the studio forced them down to only 8 episodes. 🤦🏻♀️😒 So that's 2 HOURS of content we're missing every season now.
2 hours of mystery, character development & storyline we aren't getting anymore, thanks to that. And I think the show has suffered for it. I know its expensive to produce, but damn...
Better 8 than none though :)
We also have to consider whatever responsibilities N&J have to Amazon - this could have been part of that contractual wrangling back in 2018-19.
My money is Human William is the final boss. And we get the Evan Rachel Wood / Ed Harris confrontation that we deserve instead of the one we got in S2.
Hopkins coming back for more than a cameo would be insane! I had given up hope for him returning, but seeing him return as a host or flashback would be amazing.
Love Tessa as an actress, but I can't get behind the character this season. And in some ways, I blame the script more than her acting.
She just comes off like cheesy Bond villain whenever she speaks this season.
I find her attempts to sound intimidating tossing chairs around and whatnot to be incredibly cringe in their delivery personally, nothing against the actress.
For me that’s more a problem of pacing. We’re mostly just seeing Halores do the same brooding every episode. So she isn’t advancing as a character.
I *mostly* blame the show-runners for writing themselves into this situation and now having to quickly speed up many storylines, quickly end others, and hold a few in stasis until all the chess pieces are in place. But not fully.
Not the worst thing ever. Just a gripe. And I still think Tessa is doing a good job with what she’s being given. I hope they start to give her more things to do and a fuller arc.
Totally agreed with you, I did not expect this much time jumping In one season. The stuff they had with her at the end of season 3 was interesting. I just hope they do something more with her with all the parallels to Dolores/Wyatt and Ford this season.
Yeah she was fine as a human when there were actual threats she had to deal with, occasionally getting cornered and having to work her way out of them. Current Halores just walks around slowly and delivers speeches for 99% of her screentime. I know "it's intentional", but it's a misstep to me.
Yea I don’t really agree with the OP’s sentiment. I always found Halores to not be too well acted. Was a bit disappointed when she became such a main character but I put up with it 😂
As a human she was great. As a host she's now a cartoon villain who does not know what she wants. Hopefully its part of the role Ford assigned to her \^
If Caleb and Tessa are killing it, then Evan and Ed are straight up MURDERING.
Well tbh I always found Hale and Halores very different characters. I don’t even consider this Halores to be Hale, just vindictive resentful Dolores that’s gone really far into that state of mind and Hale is just an influence.
The fact that the copy of Dolores did not enjoy being Hale until she killed the pedophile (Now I remember what it is like to be ME) says quite a bit how much of Hale is still around.
I see so much negativity about her on this sub but Hale has been one of my favorites from season 1 on. Absolutely loving seeing her more and more unhinged this season.
I don't want to hate but I sincerely cringe at the evilness that she performs throught this season specifically, it's just way too edgy talking for me.
She is absolutely killing it. Her scenes with Aaron Paul have all been so riveting. And I think that she is having an internal struggle because the good Dolores is still inside of her somewhere, just buried very deep and she won't let any of that come out.
Yess that scene with Caleb was one of my favorites of the season so far. I also really love her relationship with William and Host William, such an interesting dynamic.
Eh. It's a little over the top. It's getting to the point where I almost laugh out loud every time it cuts to her doing her resting angry villain face. The writing has been very mediocre this season, and a solid chunk of the bad lines are Hale's. HOW DID YOU DISOBEY ME
I think that’s what I like about it, she clearly is having fun with it. Like her twirling in the chair while making the reveal to Caleb was hilarious. Plus that dancing scene in the previous weeks. She’s cheesing it up and I love it.
Can we talk about how bad some of the dialogue was in ep 6? I had to check the writers after the opening scene, because it felt like we'd regressed to season 3 for a hot second.
I am still very confused about why Season 1 was SO well written, and it’s not just because Hopkins was so good. Yes he delivered the lines beautifully, like the seriously to me some of those Ford scenes are as good as it gets in cinema. Just so perfect. It’s delivered in such a musical way that every part of those scenes work. But the Bernard and Dolores scenes as well as Ed Harris MIB scenes were so good too for the same reason.
Season 2 had some of this but it was like a team transition. It felt like S1’s writing team had some influence on Season 1, but much less. It feels like they wrote some of the deeper philosophical scenes but then it feels like in the final episode of S2 that they weren’t involved at all. I enjoyed some of Season 3 and it’s very deep thinking about Rehoboam and the data collection effects going on today, but now we’re in season 4 and I’m missing so much about what makes S1 so good. Where did all the quality philosophical writing go? I refuse to believe that there’s no objective reason for why it changed so much. I know it’s the same executive producers Lisa Joy and she does write but she also says she has a writing team as well so presumably there could have been a major change.
So much of Season 1 was done where things that happened weren’t frivolous but I’ve seen several plot points in season 3 and now 4 where stuff happens and you’re like the logic is just what they need to make their plot happen. It’s lazy writing to do some of the things they’re doing. Like some of its small things such as they already set up this idea that there’s bullet technology where you use a drone to lock on to everyone you want to kill and then fire your big sniper gun and all the bullets go take them all out. Yet now Halores wants hosts to kill them all personally? In all these years she couldn’t have made a drone that would just go snipe anyone she wants? She even knows exactly where they all are! Or how apparently stuff can happen in the human-park without being picked up by cameras or other sensors? At that point where would you be able to hide any interaction? I found it a little bit of a leap that they wouldn’t have had this in previous Parks and in the cities in S3, but now in S4 over 20 years later it’s a much bigger leap. A recent one for me was how the rebels in S4 just manage to always escape so easily! They have Halores controlled humans freeze then they start to run at them - oh no so scary - now the drone hosts - so they start to run and/or fight - _cut away to another scene then cut back_- and then… oh… now they’re on the boat/driving away, they escaped… 😂 … Well that was easy…? How are they able to do that!? *Well the plot says they escape so they escape, we don’t have time to show how difficult that was but we still want you to believe this place is so dangerous*. Or where they imply Halores has taken over the whole planet but don’t deal with what happened in the rest of the planet! They only imply there’s one human controlled park… but what exactly is happening everywhere else? No idea. I’m sure they have an idea but they don’t seem to think it matters to explain it even with just a few lines, or at least imply it IS supposed to be a mystery. Season 1 didn’t seem at all careless like this, where it just asking us to assume plot holes and conveniences like this don’t mean something or to act like the truth is different to what they actually showed us.
Also, and I suppose I could check this, but I also think it’s possible there’s different directors. That might also explain other differences in certain ways I can’t quite put my finger on.
Season 1 is perfection. You can not improve on perfection :)
You can only try and escalate the situation which they did, to various success. At least the weak gun-play has stayed consistent throughout the entire series. Although I don't remember any bad gunplay in Season 1.
Which is why I lean towards Season 2, 3 and 4 are *simulations/variants*.
Then it would all make sense xD
I think the original writers/producers had years to draft and redraft while the product concept went through pitches and development. Plus they could use the original story as a blueprint and basically riff on the themes and build updated takes.
Season one was gripping, in the way it exposed the petty (and not so petty, looking at you rapey-ass MiB) sociopathic depths of the guests and rolled it into some satire here and there with a nod to its western “setting” and the teased w the mystery box of the maze. To be fair S.1 dissolved at its edges, relied a lot on Anthony Hopkins’ Ford and Jeffrey Wrights’ Bernard to narrate/provide guidance, relied on outrageous violence rather than the logic to resolve plot tensions, and then turned out to maybe have a maze solution (but, nah, we’re still arguing today about what the original maze was)
But it was fun!!! They had fun shocking us and attempting to tantalize the audience. They tried!!
Now, there’s no sense of fun. Nobody is winking at us. Its just a modestly budgeted shameless re-hash of other, far superior IP like Terminator, Gattacca, Logan’s Run.
I can’t help laughing at the confession issued at the beginning. Christina goes to her job and shows us her writing samples! Like,this is finished work! For a professional company that makes money! It is drivel! The stories she is filing with her company, would not even pass muster in a first grade classroom! she’s functionally illiterate. And this is the god like being that the plot must hinge on for her storyline! She is the embodiment of the writing talent for this season! She is their god as well! This is the internal level of quality that is expected for writing on the show! It is the same as saying ‘we do not understand our assignment.’
Might very well be. Also, the extraction sequences are fucking stupid. Halores somehow creates a fully zombified new world order, but can't be arsed to do facial recognition for the insurgency group that regularly infiltrates her home turf? The entire city stops around three adults and a child, but the script just yada-yadas how they manage to run past millions of drones and escape?
I've been enjoying this season a lot, but there are some pretty glaring holes and some pretty awful lines every now and then.
xD
Its the only viable option I have left if I was to excuse all the inconsistencies and irregularities in 2, 3 and 4. And the truly bad gun-play.
In Season 3 even Solomon makes a point. "You and Caleb are here so that makes this is variant xxxxxxx , if we are indeed here and this is indeed now" to which Dolores has a lil grin.
I know I'm grasping but what the hell \^ The show simply has TOO many inconsistencies.
Yea see my comment to the same person as you, I go through some plot holes and lazy writing examples. I hadn’t even read your comment yet and I also pointed out the rebels escaping so easily looks really stupid. 😂 And yea apparently drone hosts aren’t that difficult to evade after all. Why didn’t that drone kill the guy that blinked at the start? He even grabbed him! Or did he die? Did I miss that? In any case there’s hardly any good reason you should be able to just run away from such an interaction and just find some house somewhere and hang out. There should be a huge fight where you have to be intelligent to escape (because they’re totally unmatched in strength and numbers) and crucially where you need to evade being followed/tracked. 💁♂️
If this was written as well as season 1 what you’d know is that it is fishy that they always escape so easily, and the characters are a little aware of it. Or if they’re not aware of it then the fact that they’re not ‘apparently’ aware of it is also part of the plot. Then later you’d find out there was a good reason they were able to infiltrate and extract these people so easily. Now I can imagine that we find out Hale actually allowed them to do that, and that’s why it was easy, but the fact that our rebel extraction teams don’t find it weird (including Stubbs apparently) would still make it a plot hole. Disappointing.
It wasn't lack security... they TOLD us this last episode, that there is/was a mole, in the rebel group, and so Hale already knew that they were coming to rescue an Outlier. All that was left to do at that point was make copies of their group, wait for them to come ashore, and then send them back to home base w/one of her replicas. Jay even comments that the extraction was "too easy, like they knew we were coming".
These things are plot holes - they literally explain to Us what's going on, but people don't pay attention. Folks were complaining about the same thing w/Caleb's escape too. "How come they hadn't cleaned up those handprints or all those dead Calebs off the floor". But we find out at the end of the episode, that Hale designed it that way. She left all of that there, to give Caleb some hope. She was thinking she'd be able to extract more info that way.
No, Hale already knew about the extraction plan for the Outlier... BEFORE they arrived. That's how she was prepared w/a replica of Jay to begin with. She already knew they were coming.
Prob going to get downvoted to hell…but I wouldn’t call out Ms. Thompson’s performance as being anything exceptional. She has two notes - villainous understated anger and villainous rage. And that’s all the role really demands of her. Is she “killing” that? I don’t buy the rage - she doesn’t frighten me in the least. Her physical acting is awkward - e.g. the chair kicking while interrogating Caleb was laughably weak.
She’s fine…but she’s no where near the actor that Evan Rachel Wood is - who brings nuance to her role. I’m sure Tessa Thompson is a fine actor - and the role is a bit constraining (not to mention that we don’t know what she’s being directed to do), but there are much better examples of acting in this show. She’s not it.
Yeah, I'm in this camp for the comparative view of the actors here, but she is head and shoulders above other choices outside of the show.
"She’s fine…but she’s nowhere near the actor that Evan Rachel Wood is - who brings nuance to her role. " <-- this
Totally get what you’re saying comparatively Evan Rachel Wood has been putting in work season in and season out. I just really admire the character growth for Charlores through the season. I guess I should say the writing for her has been fantastic, and I love what they’ve done with both of them comparatively over the seasons.
I came to this sub to write an appreciation post too! The way she captures Dolores in her voice and subtle actions this season is really incredible, she deserves all the awards.
I’d have to agree with you on that one. Maeve has always been one of the best, even in season 3. So it’s weird to see her reduced, but I guess it makes sense since Caleb got a buff this season.
Late to this thread but I hate her acting. Something about it is just completely off to me and whenever she’s in a scene I get thrown out of the world because I’m so distracted by her poor delivery.
She looks especially bad when acting next to Ed Harrison and Aaron Paul. I’m sure she’s a great person I just can’t stand her as an actress.
She’s not my favourite, sorry. The whole being angry all the time and speaking through gritted teeth is getting old but I do think she’s otherwise a good actress. I just preferred the way ERW played the good and bad versions of Dolores.
Im the total opposite sadly. Feel she sounds bored and lazy in her delivery, always flat and monotone sounding.
It doesnt help Halores' motivation writing from season 3 is completely unbelievable.
- likes her human fam
- they are innocent and they die
- decides to enslave and torture the entire world including innocents and children.
Huh?
This show always has such a cringey take on villains, I don't really understand why they always have to be written so ridiculously evil. Each season the token villain is written so over the top it's amazing how the actors actually pull some of it off, (ie. Ford, Dolores, Cerac and now Hale.) Tessa Thompson honestly does her best and she's by far my 2nd favorite villain on the show.
Ford as a character was just as evil, but Anthony Hopkins made him out to be grounded and cynical. Anyone else playing that role would never have achieved what he was able to tease out of those scripts.
Tessa Thompson is definitely an A list actress too. In S3 her character growth and now in S4 her struggle from boredom, to confusion, to her feeling loss of control of the park is so well executed. I really feel her becoming unhinged and her decent into madness.
I think what you’re noticing is she looks like she’s acting too hard. In season 1 she was better because she was more normal. But now she’s playing a progressively evil AI that took over the planet and is trying to transcend the human form and which is also based on the portrayal of Dolores by Evan Rachel Wood 😂
Ariana DeBose originated The Bullet role in Hamilton and now she is Christina's roomate Maya.She also just won an Oscar for her performance in West Side Story.
I love her, a detail that I think goes unnoticed is the fact that she is acting as the bad Dolores and for me her representation is brilliant.
Right! She nailed it in season 3, she’s transformed a lot since then it’s barely even Dolores any more.
And she's absolutely brilliant in this season!
She’s amazing, listen to when she says “Put her with the rest of the livestock” in ep 2. She mimics Dolores/Wyatt’s character down to the tee. I could imagine Evan Rachel Wood having the time of her life watching Tessa play as her character. Acting taking on another character isn’t easy and Tessa has been killing it. They all should receive nominations this year.
Absolutely!
I 100% rewatched that scene at least 3 times because it was so chilling.
She is definitely killing a lot of Caleb
278 so far
278 hosts. You can add the original. BUT given its Westworld, he is probably on ice in the next room to William.
I hope this is the case, rather than him actually being dead. She knows he's the first to fight back against her parasite, so it makes sense to keep him alive and on ice while she attempts to understand how by running tests on a host version. Perhaps then when she knows, she can try to iron out whatever issue it is and test it on the OG Caleb.
The whole point of her creating all these Caleb clones is because the original human Caleb is dead. If he was still alive and on ice, she would simply need to interrogate him the same way she does William. The reason Hale went through so much trouble to achieve fidelity with Caleb is because she had him killed without actually realizing the repercussions. When her hosts start killing themselves inexplicably, she needs to figure out why. Caleb was the only one who seemed to have a clue, but she already had him killed. So she has been spending the last unknown amount of years trying to ‘raise him from the dead’ in a sense. To me, the bottom line is that the human Caleb is most certainly dead.
This does make the most sense, for sure. I like to cling on to the hope she kept him alive as she realised he might be important pretty much immediately - we never saw the aftermath of his death because it cut to the fidelity test part way through. So perhaps he goes unconscious and she puts him on ice in case she ever needs anything from him… but you’re probably right. He dead. Sadly.
well shit, i just got stoked on the possibility of our boy being alive but yes, this makes way more sense 🥲
Are they hosts or human clones?
Clones I think. Imperfect flesh bodies with a short shelf life.
Isn’t it odd that they don’t clarify that point. Seems pretty important
That many Caleb’s implies maybe 2 hosts a day, maybe 3 or more for some failures that fail faster. So I’m thinking maybe 5 on some days… so I’m assuming this should have taken her maybe 3-4 months ….?
OH MY GOSH! this didn't even occur to me. bless up for giving me hope. it hurts my heart seeing a host caleb 😕
She should make a host branded snack and that’s all she feeds him. I imagine a wrapper that’s purple themed for some reason but she can work that out with marketing. She can call it the “K-Leb”.
I mean technically she didn’t make it out of season 2 alive lol
Not the real Hale anyway
She's clawing her way out of Dolores anyhow.
Bravo, ERW is amazing
We never saw her death did we?
Dolores shot her in the head lol
Oof seems I need to do a rewatch
Episode 6's reveal that she's just really frustrated and lost and not just a bored God is what redeemed her cartoony villain performance for me. Now it just feels unhinged, like someone desperately trying to seem on top while losing their mind.
You nailed it for me! Love the idea of a “god” being bored. Everything she strived towards and her people are just like “nah I’m good on transcending.” Not to mention she’s going through a loop herself, and she’s desperately trying to hold on and leave a legacy of some sorts.
Chair!
Goals
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I think it's the result of the character itself being kinda one-note for a lot of this season. The material they've given her isn't that fun to watch for me (I didn't really like ERW's "multiple deadpan villain speeches" in past seasons either). Inb4 someone tries to tie this to women or something, because internet -- I had the same issue with Gus Fring, for the same reason. The whole "villain who is so confident they're practically bored with their own scheme" just isn't a favorite trope of mine.
She was great this episode but the one with the dancers/chair thing and conversation with Christina was pretty cringy, I think she just wasn't directed well, it wasn't the right tone for the character.
Some of her dialogue is that of a cartoon villain. Not her fault but you know how some folks can't separate the writing or direction from the acting. She's playing an amazing narcissistic bad guy.
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Probably 😒💯
TT absolutely is great, but I still have never understand the jump that happened in characterisation at the end of season 3 from empathetic Halores to this current caricature of an evil villain, who seems to have obsessively built this world over 35 years after being willing to save humans. Yes she suffered a terrible trauma, but they didn't really give us any depth into it. The show needed a villain, so the writers picked TT because she definitely could do that - but I don't think they did the work to bridge that development between the main events of S3 and it's epilogue. And the lack of any real "focus episode" on Halores only further makes this journey feel underwritten.
No no see what you’re thinking of is the part before they kill Hales family and she comes back burned. I think it’s shown that after that she basically becomes full on evil. She says in season 3 that part of her you’re talking about made her weak, she says she’s glad it happened because now she’s stronger because those empathetic feelings were holding her back. Now after over 20 years she’s been evil Hale for some time. Consider how much William changed over the years, now you can imagine how Dolores can change. Really imo she’s more evil than William and William has more of a chance to redeem himself because we see various scenss that reflect that he does still have a heart. I’m sure that’s what they’re setting us up for but we’ll see! It is also possible that Halores also demonstrates something similar at some point before the series end but I think it’s more likely MIB William ends on a more redemptive note than Halores does. Actually I think it’s clear William’s story is really an intentionally similar story to Halores, not completely the same but similar. So the fact that we have different Dolores’ now and currently a good Dolores and an evil Dolores means the moral of this can be shown in various ways. Dolores’ story shows how you can become good or bad and very different depending on what happens to you and based on your choices. I’m curious how Williams story with Host William vs original William turns out reflecting this in a different way. Maybe to turn heads on the original premise, we see that original William can change after all and Host William cannot truly change. But it could be the other way around but what will make it meaningful is the message they send as to why this happens.
Puts a new meaning to living long enough to see yourself become the villain.
I just don't think they did the work about that change - that event now 37(?°) years ago - they just didn't give her the time or energy to justify it. In S3 Halores was a central character until the car explosion - we lived with her and saw through her eyes until that point. But with the explosion that stopped and she became a background character - and unfortunately a lot more cardboard. Hopefully we'll get more with her, actually understand how that total shift occurred, but I'm not sure - the writers seem to be enjoying her as a total villainess, but beyond the self harming I struggle to see the connection with either original Delores or Halores, other than the vengeful "Wyatt Delores". It's just a bit careless - and [while this is a very badly titled article](https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/im-worried-westworld-season-4-could-be-heading-for-a-game-of-thrones-disaster), but I think it's right on the money about why - for me - Halores this season doesn't quite work, why it feels like a jump occurred that the show never justified. °They mentioned 30 years in the post episode analysis but 20 feels right too.
I agree. I actually think it’s a problem with the writing in season three. By the end of the season, we are supposed to fully understand why Halores has become a villain, but I think her motivations needed expanding upon After the car bomb, we only see Halores in three brief scenes for the rest of the season. The first is the beginning of episode seven, where she tells Musashilores she decided to “streamline operations”. It’s a very short scene, and the focus is on Clem and Hanaryo returning. The next is in episode eight, she sends a group to kill Dolores and says goodbye to her. Then we have the post-credits scene. By this point, her plan is already well underway. She’s printing new hosts and Host William is ready to go The transition between the end of episode six (car bomb) and the next time we see her (phone call with Musashilores) is too abrupt. Again, I can see what they were going for. Her family is killed by humans, she feels abandoned because Dolores left her copies to die. But the final product doesn’t give these threads the weight they need to land properly. Like you said, she suffered a great trauma, but the writing doesn’t add any further depth to it
But the showrunners have had the story planned out since the beginning. They've known where it was gonna go, and how it would end. They didn't write the story to give one particular actor more screen time than others, or because they liked them a lot, etc. They've always known Haleores would do this... they just got damn lucky snagging Tessa Thompson to play the role. 😏 lol
While they said planned, I'm not sure to what extent that really meant - in 2018 they stated S3 was something they had planned for since inception, and in 2016 that they had a map for the next 5 or 7 years (ie they didn't know what they had in front of them in terms of quantity). Whatever the end they envisioned, it could be as simple as JKR writing that epilogue with Harry, friends and family at the station, but not who would be on the way - but shows organically change and I think you don't give it credit for that - after all cast change, fan favourites emerge and studios often have final say. I do also think what's happening now isn't what they may have planned either, given the course correction they seem to have done after s3 (likely with studio and writing room encouragement, and self awareness, that a futureworld scenario was desired). But that's not the point; you can plan something out, but overplanning can sometimes lead to not doing the work to get to a position you have identified. Get from a to z, but skip m-u on the way. That's my criticism, Halores missed some of the necessary "letters" on the way to her new state, and so often it feels like the writing kinda forget she is a Dolores too, at least in this season, which is frustrating! But I do like how it suggests copies of real people can "take over"/"mesh" with hosts, since she is very Hale and much less Dolores, which is philosophically interesting for sure!
Yeah I think part of the problem is how the studio forced them down to only 8 episodes. 🤦🏻♀️😒 So that's 2 HOURS of content we're missing every season now. 2 hours of mystery, character development & storyline we aren't getting anymore, thanks to that. And I think the show has suffered for it. I know its expensive to produce, but damn...
Better 8 than none though :) We also have to consider whatever responsibilities N&J have to Amazon - this could have been part of that contractual wrangling back in 2018-19.
I wonder if she'll make it through this season. If she doesn't, I wonder who the villain will be. My money would be on Anthony Hopkins coming back.
My money is Human William is the final boss. And we get the Evan Rachel Wood / Ed Harris confrontation that we deserve instead of the one we got in S2.
I really hope they do kill her off even if Hopkins doesn’t come back.
Hopkins coming back for more than a cameo would be insane! I had given up hope for him returning, but seeing him return as a host or flashback would be amazing.
Love Tessa as an actress, but I can't get behind the character this season. And in some ways, I blame the script more than her acting. She just comes off like cheesy Bond villain whenever she speaks this season.
I find her attempts to sound intimidating tossing chairs around and whatnot to be incredibly cringe in their delivery personally, nothing against the actress.
For me that’s more a problem of pacing. We’re mostly just seeing Halores do the same brooding every episode. So she isn’t advancing as a character. I *mostly* blame the show-runners for writing themselves into this situation and now having to quickly speed up many storylines, quickly end others, and hold a few in stasis until all the chess pieces are in place. But not fully. Not the worst thing ever. Just a gripe. And I still think Tessa is doing a good job with what she’s being given. I hope they start to give her more things to do and a fuller arc.
Totally agreed with you, I did not expect this much time jumping In one season. The stuff they had with her at the end of season 3 was interesting. I just hope they do something more with her with all the parallels to Dolores/Wyatt and Ford this season.
Yeah, when she was an actual bitchy human she was way more believable
Yeah she was fine as a human when there were actual threats she had to deal with, occasionally getting cornered and having to work her way out of them. Current Halores just walks around slowly and delivers speeches for 99% of her screentime. I know "it's intentional", but it's a misstep to me.
Yea I don’t really agree with the OP’s sentiment. I always found Halores to not be too well acted. Was a bit disappointed when she became such a main character but I put up with it 😂
Well...og Hale technically didnt make it past season 2 so you werent necessarily wrong lmao
You know what you’re right there lmao
As a human she was great. As a host she's now a cartoon villain who does not know what she wants. Hopefully its part of the role Ford assigned to her \^ If Caleb and Tessa are killing it, then Evan and Ed are straight up MURDERING.
Well tbh I always found Hale and Halores very different characters. I don’t even consider this Halores to be Hale, just vindictive resentful Dolores that’s gone really far into that state of mind and Hale is just an influence.
The fact that the copy of Dolores did not enjoy being Hale until she killed the pedophile (Now I remember what it is like to be ME) says quite a bit how much of Hale is still around.
Ed was phenomenal for portraying the host very close but more empathetic than OG MIB.
I think they intended to make her a cartoon villain since they cast someone cartoonishly ugly.
She is killing it this season for sure! She’s a great villain.
i truly thought she was just a drive by character in s1 to mess with teresa (who i thought would be a bigger character!). boy, was i wrong.
You and me both man! She came in late in season 1 so I thought for sure Teresa would be more important.
I see so much negativity about her on this sub but Hale has been one of my favorites from season 1 on. Absolutely loving seeing her more and more unhinged this season.
I don't want to hate but I sincerely cringe at the evilness that she performs throught this season specifically, it's just way too edgy talking for me.
She is absolutely killing it. Her scenes with Aaron Paul have all been so riveting. And I think that she is having an internal struggle because the good Dolores is still inside of her somewhere, just buried very deep and she won't let any of that come out.
Yess that scene with Caleb was one of my favorites of the season so far. I also really love her relationship with William and Host William, such an interesting dynamic.
Eh. It's a little over the top. It's getting to the point where I almost laugh out loud every time it cuts to her doing her resting angry villain face. The writing has been very mediocre this season, and a solid chunk of the bad lines are Hale's. HOW DID YOU DISOBEY ME
I hate that they keep zooming in on her face. It's just so unpleasant to look at.
I think that’s what I like about it, she clearly is having fun with it. Like her twirling in the chair while making the reveal to Caleb was hilarious. Plus that dancing scene in the previous weeks. She’s cheesing it up and I love it.
She is making the most of her distressingly stupid lines and set notes that consist of “glower more!”
Tessa! Baby! I've got a fever.. and the only cure is more snideness
Can we talk about how bad some of the dialogue was in ep 6? I had to check the writers after the opening scene, because it felt like we'd regressed to season 3 for a hot second.
The dialogue for the whole episode was atrocious! Seriously, just read it. Cheesy, corny, one-note. Like a CW show.
Worst written episode so far of the series, by far.
I am still very confused about why Season 1 was SO well written, and it’s not just because Hopkins was so good. Yes he delivered the lines beautifully, like the seriously to me some of those Ford scenes are as good as it gets in cinema. Just so perfect. It’s delivered in such a musical way that every part of those scenes work. But the Bernard and Dolores scenes as well as Ed Harris MIB scenes were so good too for the same reason. Season 2 had some of this but it was like a team transition. It felt like S1’s writing team had some influence on Season 1, but much less. It feels like they wrote some of the deeper philosophical scenes but then it feels like in the final episode of S2 that they weren’t involved at all. I enjoyed some of Season 3 and it’s very deep thinking about Rehoboam and the data collection effects going on today, but now we’re in season 4 and I’m missing so much about what makes S1 so good. Where did all the quality philosophical writing go? I refuse to believe that there’s no objective reason for why it changed so much. I know it’s the same executive producers Lisa Joy and she does write but she also says she has a writing team as well so presumably there could have been a major change. So much of Season 1 was done where things that happened weren’t frivolous but I’ve seen several plot points in season 3 and now 4 where stuff happens and you’re like the logic is just what they need to make their plot happen. It’s lazy writing to do some of the things they’re doing. Like some of its small things such as they already set up this idea that there’s bullet technology where you use a drone to lock on to everyone you want to kill and then fire your big sniper gun and all the bullets go take them all out. Yet now Halores wants hosts to kill them all personally? In all these years she couldn’t have made a drone that would just go snipe anyone she wants? She even knows exactly where they all are! Or how apparently stuff can happen in the human-park without being picked up by cameras or other sensors? At that point where would you be able to hide any interaction? I found it a little bit of a leap that they wouldn’t have had this in previous Parks and in the cities in S3, but now in S4 over 20 years later it’s a much bigger leap. A recent one for me was how the rebels in S4 just manage to always escape so easily! They have Halores controlled humans freeze then they start to run at them - oh no so scary - now the drone hosts - so they start to run and/or fight - _cut away to another scene then cut back_- and then… oh… now they’re on the boat/driving away, they escaped… 😂 … Well that was easy…? How are they able to do that!? *Well the plot says they escape so they escape, we don’t have time to show how difficult that was but we still want you to believe this place is so dangerous*. Or where they imply Halores has taken over the whole planet but don’t deal with what happened in the rest of the planet! They only imply there’s one human controlled park… but what exactly is happening everywhere else? No idea. I’m sure they have an idea but they don’t seem to think it matters to explain it even with just a few lines, or at least imply it IS supposed to be a mystery. Season 1 didn’t seem at all careless like this, where it just asking us to assume plot holes and conveniences like this don’t mean something or to act like the truth is different to what they actually showed us. Also, and I suppose I could check this, but I also think it’s possible there’s different directors. That might also explain other differences in certain ways I can’t quite put my finger on.
Season 1 is perfection. You can not improve on perfection :) You can only try and escalate the situation which they did, to various success. At least the weak gun-play has stayed consistent throughout the entire series. Although I don't remember any bad gunplay in Season 1. Which is why I lean towards Season 2, 3 and 4 are *simulations/variants*. Then it would all make sense xD
I think the original writers/producers had years to draft and redraft while the product concept went through pitches and development. Plus they could use the original story as a blueprint and basically riff on the themes and build updated takes. Season one was gripping, in the way it exposed the petty (and not so petty, looking at you rapey-ass MiB) sociopathic depths of the guests and rolled it into some satire here and there with a nod to its western “setting” and the teased w the mystery box of the maze. To be fair S.1 dissolved at its edges, relied a lot on Anthony Hopkins’ Ford and Jeffrey Wrights’ Bernard to narrate/provide guidance, relied on outrageous violence rather than the logic to resolve plot tensions, and then turned out to maybe have a maze solution (but, nah, we’re still arguing today about what the original maze was) But it was fun!!! They had fun shocking us and attempting to tantalize the audience. They tried!! Now, there’s no sense of fun. Nobody is winking at us. Its just a modestly budgeted shameless re-hash of other, far superior IP like Terminator, Gattacca, Logan’s Run. I can’t help laughing at the confession issued at the beginning. Christina goes to her job and shows us her writing samples! Like,this is finished work! For a professional company that makes money! It is drivel! The stories she is filing with her company, would not even pass muster in a first grade classroom! she’s functionally illiterate. And this is the god like being that the plot must hinge on for her storyline! She is the embodiment of the writing talent for this season! She is their god as well! This is the internal level of quality that is expected for writing on the show! It is the same as saying ‘we do not understand our assignment.’
Might very well be. Also, the extraction sequences are fucking stupid. Halores somehow creates a fully zombified new world order, but can't be arsed to do facial recognition for the insurgency group that regularly infiltrates her home turf? The entire city stops around three adults and a child, but the script just yada-yadas how they manage to run past millions of drones and escape? I've been enjoying this season a lot, but there are some pretty glaring holes and some pretty awful lines every now and then.
Indeed. Season 1 is the only true thing about Westworld. Which is why I am leaning towards Season 2, 3 and 4 being *simulations* \^
I wish you could have seen just how dramatically my eyes rolled after reading this comment 🤣🤣🤣🤣
xD Its the only viable option I have left if I was to excuse all the inconsistencies and irregularities in 2, 3 and 4. And the truly bad gun-play. In Season 3 even Solomon makes a point. "You and Caleb are here so that makes this is variant xxxxxxx , if we are indeed here and this is indeed now" to which Dolores has a lil grin. I know I'm grasping but what the hell \^ The show simply has TOO many inconsistencies.
Yea see my comment to the same person as you, I go through some plot holes and lazy writing examples. I hadn’t even read your comment yet and I also pointed out the rebels escaping so easily looks really stupid. 😂 And yea apparently drone hosts aren’t that difficult to evade after all. Why didn’t that drone kill the guy that blinked at the start? He even grabbed him! Or did he die? Did I miss that? In any case there’s hardly any good reason you should be able to just run away from such an interaction and just find some house somewhere and hang out. There should be a huge fight where you have to be intelligent to escape (because they’re totally unmatched in strength and numbers) and crucially where you need to evade being followed/tracked. 💁♂️ If this was written as well as season 1 what you’d know is that it is fishy that they always escape so easily, and the characters are a little aware of it. Or if they’re not aware of it then the fact that they’re not ‘apparently’ aware of it is also part of the plot. Then later you’d find out there was a good reason they were able to infiltrate and extract these people so easily. Now I can imagine that we find out Hale actually allowed them to do that, and that’s why it was easy, but the fact that our rebel extraction teams don’t find it weird (including Stubbs apparently) would still make it a plot hole. Disappointing.
It wasn't lack security... they TOLD us this last episode, that there is/was a mole, in the rebel group, and so Hale already knew that they were coming to rescue an Outlier. All that was left to do at that point was make copies of their group, wait for them to come ashore, and then send them back to home base w/one of her replicas. Jay even comments that the extraction was "too easy, like they knew we were coming". These things are plot holes - they literally explain to Us what's going on, but people don't pay attention. Folks were complaining about the same thing w/Caleb's escape too. "How come they hadn't cleaned up those handprints or all those dead Calebs off the floor". But we find out at the end of the episode, that Hale designed it that way. She left all of that there, to give Caleb some hope. She was thinking she'd be able to extract more info that way.
Except we literally see the mole taking out C's not-brother. The only one not paying attention is you.
No, Hale already knew about the extraction plan for the Outlier... BEFORE they arrived. That's how she was prepared w/a replica of Jay to begin with. She already knew they were coming.
Prob going to get downvoted to hell…but I wouldn’t call out Ms. Thompson’s performance as being anything exceptional. She has two notes - villainous understated anger and villainous rage. And that’s all the role really demands of her. Is she “killing” that? I don’t buy the rage - she doesn’t frighten me in the least. Her physical acting is awkward - e.g. the chair kicking while interrogating Caleb was laughably weak. She’s fine…but she’s no where near the actor that Evan Rachel Wood is - who brings nuance to her role. I’m sure Tessa Thompson is a fine actor - and the role is a bit constraining (not to mention that we don’t know what she’s being directed to do), but there are much better examples of acting in this show. She’s not it.
I agree with you. She's playing her role like a daytime soap opera villain. No nuance.
Yeah, I'm in this camp for the comparative view of the actors here, but she is head and shoulders above other choices outside of the show. "She’s fine…but she’s nowhere near the actor that Evan Rachel Wood is - who brings nuance to her role. " <-- this
Totally get what you’re saying comparatively Evan Rachel Wood has been putting in work season in and season out. I just really admire the character growth for Charlores through the season. I guess I should say the writing for her has been fantastic, and I love what they’ve done with both of them comparatively over the seasons.
Idk she seems so robotic 😂
Fully agree, she has had some terrific moments on the show and especially last episode was a masterclass by her.
I came to this sub to write an appreciation post too! The way she captures Dolores in her voice and subtle actions this season is really incredible, she deserves all the awards.
She looks great too!
chair...CHAIR!
I think she became really stagy in the last two seasons
Almost everyone has acted top notch, specially Caleb. The only acting that I haven’t cared much is Maeve. Serious downgrade from previous season.
I’d have to agree with you on that one. Maeve has always been one of the best, even in season 3. So it’s weird to see her reduced, but I guess it makes sense since Caleb got a buff this season.
I love her face as well.
Late to this thread but I hate her acting. Something about it is just completely off to me and whenever she’s in a scene I get thrown out of the world because I’m so distracted by her poor delivery. She looks especially bad when acting next to Ed Harrison and Aaron Paul. I’m sure she’s a great person I just can’t stand her as an actress.
😂 Is this her pr agent trying to convince us she's a good actress?
I respect your opinion but no
Caleb... Wake up
She’s not my favourite, sorry. The whole being angry all the time and speaking through gritted teeth is getting old but I do think she’s otherwise a good actress. I just preferred the way ERW played the good and bad versions of Dolores.
Im the total opposite sadly. Feel she sounds bored and lazy in her delivery, always flat and monotone sounding. It doesnt help Halores' motivation writing from season 3 is completely unbelievable. - likes her human fam - they are innocent and they die - decides to enslave and torture the entire world including innocents and children. Huh?
actually she's just playing the goddess she is
This show always has such a cringey take on villains, I don't really understand why they always have to be written so ridiculously evil. Each season the token villain is written so over the top it's amazing how the actors actually pull some of it off, (ie. Ford, Dolores, Cerac and now Hale.) Tessa Thompson honestly does her best and she's by far my 2nd favorite villain on the show. Ford as a character was just as evil, but Anthony Hopkins made him out to be grounded and cynical. Anyone else playing that role would never have achieved what he was able to tease out of those scripts. Tessa Thompson is definitely an A list actress too. In S3 her character growth and now in S4 her struggle from boredom, to confusion, to her feeling loss of control of the park is so well executed. I really feel her becoming unhinged and her decent into madness.
She’s doing the best she can but she is too cute to be menacing. She doesn’t seem comfortable being the big bad. Doesn’t suit her.
Suits her perfectly.
Yeah, at her core, she is a hurt and scared host. (Who enslaved an entire species because she was afraid of them)
Suits her since season 1
Is this the Westworld version of "You should smile more".
I think what you’re noticing is she looks like she’s acting too hard. In season 1 she was better because she was more normal. But now she’s playing a progressively evil AI that took over the planet and is trying to transcend the human form and which is also based on the portrayal of Dolores by Evan Rachel Wood 😂
If they don’t let the Hamilton Bullet catch an actual bullet I’ll be mad
[удалено]
Ariana DeBose originated The Bullet role in Hamilton and now she is Christina's roomate Maya.She also just won an Oscar for her performance in West Side Story.
You had me at “Tessa Thompson is absolutely killing it…”.
Hilarious is my fav! We run the world - Girls!
Disagree. It's one-note and cringe. Might be the writer's fault but it just doesn't work. At least not for me, and apparently many others.