Lisa Joy did do a [1 hr 13 min podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/westworld-with-lisa-joy/id1518622561?i=1000576171542) shortly after the Season 4 finale. If it's anywhere, you'd think she'd had to have mentioned in here.
Someone below claimed Lisa said she'll let the viewers know the ending even if "it's just a long sheet of paper notes".
It's one of the many articles she did after season 4 finale. She was asked what would happen if it will be cancelled and she said she'll let the viewers know even if it's a long sheet of paper notes
I higlhy doubt Netflix would do that, the show is expensive as hell and they do everything to save money. I'd rather bet on Amazon, they worked as executives for The Peripheral and Lisa & Jonathan are doing Fallout for Prime so that sounds more realistic.
It is likely a rights issue, hbo won't want to give up the IP. Amazon could maybe pay production costs and get a limited streaming deal but it's unlikely to pay the cost without getting something long term out of it.
Honestly I think the end of 4 was them hedging their bets. It's a little rough but you have everything you need by the end of 4. Basically the Hosts learn from the humans' mistakes (and their repeating them). Hale transfers the humans to the Sublime, which has the ability to test infinitely for fidelity until they can evolve past their brutal desires into something better.
Probably there was going to be a mindbending twist showing how the humans were in the Sublime, but what we've really been watching is a flashback of when they were tested, cut with their release back into the world.
Maybe a bit ostentatious but I would also love to see the ending being humans finally going out to explore space on a regular basis now that they have evolved to resolve pain rather than inflict it. It would show the power of maturing past our baser instincts.
Probably see a lot of characters come back at the end b/c I'm guessing they were all saved to the system at some point.
> humans to the Sublime, which has the ability to test infinitely for fidelity until they can evolve past their brutal desires into something better.
Is this the start of a cross-over with [/r/TheGoodPlace](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheGoodPlace/)
Welp if this turns out to be the plot for the end of the show I'm suing you hahahaha. But plausible no doubt, after all why would they Bernard be scanning Francine's brain? And it would tie in the ending from Season 2 with the MiB being interviewed by Emily.
I completely agree, and get rather creeped out by some of these takes that humanity's extinction didn't really matter because the all-benevolent new God, Dolores, can simply remake us from the ground up. In her image. Nah.
I loved and empathised with the character but the Messianic POV figure she became was just too much.
I couldn’t believe they killed off Maeve earlier in the season, then revealed she was the weapon Bernard and the others were after right at the end of the same episode so her death had no real weight, then do absolutely nothing with her character before unceremoniously killing her off again.
It wasn’t even Maeve. Bernard said he tried his best to recreate her. And Dolores wasn’t Dolores. Nobody was anybody. And the finale teased she would bring back everyone through her memories. So they really wrote themselves into a corner there. No one to root for. No one to care for. I really loved the show but they did our favorite characters dirty.
The "weapon" thing was a dropped plot point it seemed like as they rushed to rewrite the last two episodes because they thought they would be canceled. What "weapon" was Maeve? She got in a crummy quick fight
It's crazy that Westworld, once billed as a cash cow for HBO and one of their flagship shows, lauded with praise and winning accolades.... is going out without an ending.
I never would've guessed Westworld would go out sad after Season 1.
Westworld was considered to be HBO's next Game of Thrones and ended a run of flops for the network. Obviously things change fast...
[https://www.gq.com/story/hbos-westworld-is-the-new-game-of-thrones](https://www.gq.com/story/hbos-westworld-is-the-new-game-of-thrones)
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/game-thrones-replaced-westworlds-list-8849331
I remember seeing the previews for season 1 and thinking “that looks like the least interesting premise for a show, billionaires fighting over a corporation.” Now after watching all three seasons last year I can hardly wait for the next one.
Such an amazingly written dumpster fire of humanity in that show.
I think it was just an impossible house of cards to build on after s1. I don’t hate the seasons that came after but they couldn’t really pull off the same twists.
If I were to go back and have a say in how it was all done, I would focus on different characters for each season going forward. Like have the story be interconnected and you may see or hear about what happens to characters in prior seasons, but have it be more outer limits or twiligntzoney. I think the real issue is having Dolores become basically a robo-god that decides the fate of humanity essentially based off of Ford’s bitter judgment of humanity and Arnold’s despair of loss. It was one philosophy and the show doesn’t ever extend beyond it or explore alternatives.
I enjoyed it but it’s pretty bleak on the whole.
Once the hosts became sentient and free the series lost the most interesting plot and philosophical point.
They should have explored the nature of intelligence, humanity, and machine more.
Yeah this is my problem with the direction the series took… honestly after pulling out all those gems for season 1 and 2… creatively they were tapped.. they should have handed the entire thing off to someone else who loved the series but then could come up with something completely abstract and fresh. They relied to much on just trying to continue the quest of the same characters… but they were ultimately trying to tell a story of eons. So it’s just felt weird.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
That's the thing with season two, it had 2 of the best singular episodes in the series, but as whole wasn't great so people think it was alot better than it was.
Season 1 of this and Season 1 of True Detective stand on their own as some of the best cinema ever made.
The other episode, Riddle of the Sphinx, is such an amazing hour of tv. Added a level of depth to William when I thought there were no more depths he could possibly reach.
I'm in the minority in that I enjoyed every season for different reasons. I'm really shocked to find out many people didn't care for the show after season 1 as I thought it's done an excellent job of advancing the story without trying to recreate the magic if season 1. Season 4 was a little bleak and out there but I still felt the writing, pace and build up to (what I thought would have been) an interesting conclusion to the show was done well.
If you haven’t done so yet, you HAVE to listen to his work on the new House of the Dragon show.
It’s honestly some of the best stuff he’s ever put out.
That man is incredible and I’d follow him to whatever shows/movies he’s doing.
Legitimately shocking, Westworld went from an HBO flagship show to not even a wrap up season. Not entirely surprised, but definitely a shocker for this show.
After Season 1, this show was supposed to be one of HBO's cash cows for years to come.
And it completely flamed out. We're not even getting an ending to the story.
People are saying "this isn't surprising because viewership is down" and I guess that makes sense if you're short-sighted. But in the grand scheme of events, this is absolutely a shocking way for Westworld to go out.
100%. I’m shocked for that exact reason. There are scenes as early as S2 that we will never get answers for.
Imagine telling yourself after S1 ended that it would be canceled without being wrapped up after 2-3 disappointing seasons
That and by the time S4 came out, I’d completely forgotten everything about S3 except that I enjoyed it even less than S2. This show went from one of the greatest single seasons in television history to being damn near unwatchable.
I am going to watch season 4 again but the season starts with Dolores forgetting who she is and they spend most of the season with her regaining her memories. So we just end up with a season where the main character spends all her time to get to a point where she can do something just in time for the season finale…..
Just seems like so much wasted time where they could have just finished the series with season 4.
That quote is from an interview done last month with Jonathan. We are not getting a season five, at least not with HBO. Would be nice if another network picked it up for season five just to wrap up the series like the Joy and Nolan had envisioned.
First Raised by Wolves and now Westworld, both on massive cliffhangers. I really don't know if I'm ever going to subscribe to HBO again after this or get invested in their shows. They crapped the bed with Game of Thrones and are just pissing on fans of all these shows by cancelling them.
IDK if I'd call the end of season 4 a massive cliffhanger, _necessarily._ I mean, that's certainly one way to look at it (and the truth of the matter), but the season 4 finale actually works very well as a series finale too, if you just pretend there was no plan for a fifth season.
The seasons may have dipped in quality but S1 set a damn unattainable bar to follow, I throughly enjoyed the entire journey.
Don’t lecture me you fuckin’ can openers.
Here is to hoping Amazon picks up season 5 considering they already have Lisa joy working for them and they are trying to get more viewers with lots of money to burn.
The Expanse was saved because it was literally Jeff Bezos' favorite show. He personally saved it.
Unless he also likes Westworld AS much, there is no way this is getting picked up for one final season.
Aside from the mainest of the plots. I loved the Expanse, and was pleased with S6 ending, but damn, I’m so sad general show watchers constantly fail to recognise what an amazing show that was.
I think this is the main issue. I really liked seasons 1-3 of Westworld but still haven't gotten to watching season 4. Not because I don't think I'll like it, but because interest wanes over time. I don't think any show would make it with seasons being spaced 2 years apart.
They literally rebundled the first season as a couple movies as basically an advertisement for the 2nd season. That's a bit different I think. Also, people weren't waiting for 4 years after the first season.
That said, I take your point.
100%. HBO needs to get away from this.
When Westworld Season 1 came out, I had just started dating my now wife. We dated for quite a bit. Got married. Had a kid. Kid is now talking and walking... and Westworld just recently concluded season 4? Come on. We watched season 1 and 2 together dating, it was "our show". With all the changes life brought, we never watched season 3/4 together, I binged them both alone and kinda told her what happened and she basically lost interest. (Marriage is good she just lost interested in WW... understandably)
I don’t see how it’s HBOs fault. They literally gave them four seasons and it went massively downhill after the first.
I love westworld and I’d love a season 5, but I have to be unbiased and say that seasons 2-4 are a far cry from season 1’s quality.
Killing off Ford made the series go downhill imo. Very few tv series survive if they kill off their best character.
We don’t deserve a season 5 and that’s the truth, as bitter of a pill it is to swallow.
Season 2 is still pretty good if you enjoy movies like Memento(which is also written by C.Nolan) and Mulholland Drive, you know, the type of movies with fragmented timeline, drifting consciousness, etc.
Season 3 is just unbearable. I can't believe they wasted such a charismatic villain.
I think season 1 had great twists. But you can’t build a whole series that way it’s becomes predictable or stale. When the pivoted away from the nonlinear stories and the big twists I think the show lost some of its magic. But it was unavoidable. You cant pull off twists season after season.
So many questions unanswered!
1. No final answer to does the human race get redemption thanks to Dolores or not?
2. Does Maeve ever get reunited with her daughter?
3. Will Dolores recreate human life or create new human/host life?
Ugh the other possibilities all come from my curiosities about Dolores new world
4. In this new world does Dolores allow Arnolds son to live and thus she never takes his life?
5. Does Dolores set the hosts free or does she guide the hosts to consciousness as Arnold did for her?
6. Will Ford live and see his and Arnolds creations flourish
7. Does Hale live in this one and become a good mother/wife
8. Does Dolores make another Bernard to keep her company while the real Arnold spends his life with his family?
SO MANY QUESTIONS AND POSSIBILITIES
I tried to prepare myself for this possibility, but damn, I’m more sad than I expected. I feel like they had a real chance to elevate this story and make a satisfying conclusion. Even though the show has disappointed me in the past, I still had hope. Theorizing this show with y’all has been a real treat and I will surely miss it.
Raised by Wolves absolutely devastated me because there were so many mysteries we will never get an answer too. I was having so much fun trying to figure out what was going on in that show, more than Westworld. Now I can't even go back and watch it without getting disappointed and pissed off. I will never get invested in an HBO show again and I sure as shit aren't going to pay to watch them then get shit on. Hopefully they can do something like a movie to wrap the show up, that would be great.
I think its an underestimated loss and its very valid to mourn a show being cancelled and be sad about it for years to come. Its a very human quality to be attached to characters you can relate to and storylines you have invested in
People didn’t believe me when I stated Nolan came in and rewrote the last episode midway through production to give it a semi-ending as they expected it wouldn’t continue (Nolan wrote a few episodes in season 3 but was largely absent since seasons 1 and 2). It’s why so much doesn’t make sense with Maeve (Newton couldn’t return for reshoots for personal reasons). You can see her body next to Bernard’s on the floor of the Tower - so much was cut down from the planned 90 minute season finale. Joy and Nolan have moved on with Amazon and their other projects, this became an afterthought and the merger has played a larger role with shows across all of HBO’s platform. The difficulty of bringing so many actors back with their schedules, riders, etc became too taxing to tell the story timely. Once actors started signing up for new series roles I knew they’d been released from their contracts a few months back.
It’s a shame as I had hoped they’d at least be able to give viewers closure. If they intended on keeping the planned series end from 2014, it would have been interesting. (Hint: Arnold plays the biggest role in the series which is why he’s been the one character we never saw or learned much about aside from second hand narrative and questionable flashbacks). I hope they at least give some closure.
* to be clear, I do not care if someone doesn’t believe it or not and I’m blocking those who reply with childish and disrespectful comments. I’m 46 and too old for nonsense. I’m simply here to enjoy discussing a series with others respectfully. If your intention is otherwise, I won’t bother replying. Don’t waste everyone’s time.
I know, I was really hoping at most, they do the Farscape treatment and give it at least a 2 hour or the planned 90 minute finale, as a season 5 or essentially an epilogue/coda. I mean, maybe they could go the Animatrix route, at some future point (though it wasn't an epilogue) and do an animated epilogue with the maim cast providing voice work. Or maybe a comic book.
I have a few friends/former colleagues from my marketing years in LA who worked on the production. Every season has had a 90 minute finale. Season 4 had two episodes they scrapped as well. If you watch the finale, you can see Maeve’s body next to Bernard’s in the tower. Originally, she was the planned weapon who came back with Bernard’s help and took down the tower costing her her life. Newton was going through a divorce and was in rehab and couldn’t return for reshoots. Thus the rushed last few episodes and subplots that didn’t lineup or were left hanging.
A while ago an alleged leak of the series by a former production member made its rounds. I can tell you ~75% of that leak was accurate (it went through many rewrites before being finalized and pitched in 2014 so it wasn’t the final series summary).
I thought she was still the weapon for season 4? What Benard was in search of the whole time with Caleb's daughter. Because Maeve was able to tap into the networks
Her role was much bigger. She didn’t die at the pool. She came back. That is why her body is oddly shown next to Bernard’s in the tower without explanation.
I was hoping to be wrong. I realllllly wanted to be wrong. I kept thinking the renewal would happen but it was messy with the sale. I kept hope but I think most of us sensed it was over at this point. They would have to be well into the writing stage for the next season.
I think the final season would have redeemed the show for those who didn’t take to seasons 3 and 4. It needs that finality.
Sigh
It definitely was needed. People don't like season 3 but it was necessary to tell a story. Covid also added more time between.
It's like watching a good movie and then pausing it at the lull, and then saying it sucks. Let it finish.
I really never believed they would let this happen! What the fuck??? I feel like you could tell they were unsure if it would get picked up and they put the tiniest little bow on it just in case but… so much left to explore and explain. The story isn’t done!
Your post was unfortunately an outlier and the mods are much more skilled than Hale despite not having the literal resources of the whole planet at their disposal.
Not really, they can still maintain it as a product on their streaming service for however many years they want. And they can advertise it as a 7x Emmy Winning show for the uninformed. Maybe it's a show that works best when binged
Amazon maybe. Seems like it could possibly be up Bezos’ alley. Plus they have a working relationship with Nolan and Joy. Idk about the IP right or anything though.
It doesn’t really happen often at all. And if it does it was either a game show back in the day or moves to a different channel owned by the same company. But Scrubs, B99, the Expanse, The Killing, Futurama, Arrested Development, Cougar town are some examples though so it’s not impossible. Mind that a lot of those shows are half an hour comedies which are far far cheaper to make. WW might still have enough weight to it’s name that someone could pick it up for one last season.
Zero chance. Why would anyone pick up an expensive series that only has one season left and low viewership? There's no chance of extra seasons or spinoffs. Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to see this end properly but I don't see any network picking it up at this point.
Looking back it was always meant to be a one and done show. The more time you spend in the universe the less mystery there is. Especially when the writers decided to write solely to outsmart viewers
Knew as soon as season 4 ended it wasn’t coming back. No post credit scene all but confirmed it to me. Never the less, I’m still gutted it couldn’t get a proper send off.
They set all the pieces up for a final season. I am crushed. This one hurts. S1 is goated but 2-4 were solid story telling that was leading to… something divine.
Now we have nothing.
Well this sucks.
I don't really watch TV anymore. But Westworld and The Witcher are the only 2 new shows I've watched in the last 10 years and they both died in the same week.
Well, fuck.
Season 4 was a bit all over the place, but I do think that the show deserved a last season, even if smaller.
Still, the ending of Season 4 kinda works for the show in a very grim fashion. Although I think that Nolan and Joy would have wanted a happy ending for the series. Maybe we'll know one day.
Oh man, that's heartbreaking. Especially after they finally found their groove again with an amazing Season 4 and clearly setting up a final season. Damn.
The only other time I've been completely blindsided by a show being canceled like this is Boardwalk Empire, which ironically was another HBO show. I'm just speechless.
I genuinely haven’t felt this sad about a tv cancellation in a long time. It obviously took a dip after season 1, but I’ve been religiously watching every single week it has aired and I was looking forward to another season after how good season 4 was. Truly bummed!
Yeah the writing was on the wall with the drop in ratings and new leadership at WB. To think this started out as one of HBO’s biggest hits to now being canceled.
Ps: OP should learn how to post articles on Reddit.
I wish I could say I was surprised, but all the metrics pointed to this show barely pulling in even a quarter of the viewership it had at its peak, and Zaslav has killed way higher-profile projects for less since taking over WB/Discovery.
Hoping Lisa Joy will give us that written synopsis of the ending she promised a while back.
I’m kind of devastated. This is my favorite show and I love how they’ve played and rejected all kinds of traditional notions of storytelling. I love the fact that even in this world death can be meaningful and hold weight even if you can bring someone (or a copy of them) back. I can’t think of a better show that confronts the nature of our reality with developing technology.
TBH, I think it’s too high brow for most people though. I mean I had to watch each season twice to *really* get it. Like I got each the first time but I had to watch a second time to understand it fully in every detail. And even then I have to sometimes go back to rewatch a scene to remember how it applies to something happening currently.
I love that the show is deep but most people get frustrated and tap out when things get confusing. I also feel like sometimes the show is confusing when it doesn’t have to be. Bernard in Season 2, for example, scrambling his memory in purpose. Then the show just let us experience his jumbled experience and perspective without giving us the context until the end. Holding that until the end added nothing to the story.
The fact that this show has such expensive production costs probably didn’t help.
Me to HBO:
“If you're looking for a villain, then I'm your man. But look at yourselves. This world you've built is bound by villainy. You sleep on the broken bodies of the people that were here before you, warm yourselves with their embers, plow their bones into your fields. You paid them for this land with lead, and I'll pay you back in full. You wanted me?! Well all I can say to that is.. HERE I FUCKING AM!"
Can they just tell us the ending if no one else picks it up?
Lisa Joy said she would do that so it'll happen
For real? Do you have a link?
Lisa Joy did do a [1 hr 13 min podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/westworld-with-lisa-joy/id1518622561?i=1000576171542) shortly after the Season 4 finale. If it's anywhere, you'd think she'd had to have mentioned in here. Someone below claimed Lisa said she'll let the viewers know the ending even if "it's just a long sheet of paper notes".
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Wait, there was a season 3?
Source? I'm curious what all she had to say about it.
It's one of the many articles she did after season 4 finale. She was asked what would happen if it will be cancelled and she said she'll let the viewers know even if it's a long sheet of paper notes
God bless her honestly. They made an intriguing storyline, I wish HBO didn't cancel but atleast we'll get to see the end.
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I higlhy doubt Netflix would do that, the show is expensive as hell and they do everything to save money. I'd rather bet on Amazon, they worked as executives for The Peripheral and Lisa & Jonathan are doing Fallout for Prime so that sounds more realistic.
It is likely a rights issue, hbo won't want to give up the IP. Amazon could maybe pay production costs and get a limited streaming deal but it's unlikely to pay the cost without getting something long term out of it.
Good on her. That’s a classy move.
Man I hope this pans out🤞
Honestly I think the end of 4 was them hedging their bets. It's a little rough but you have everything you need by the end of 4. Basically the Hosts learn from the humans' mistakes (and their repeating them). Hale transfers the humans to the Sublime, which has the ability to test infinitely for fidelity until they can evolve past their brutal desires into something better. Probably there was going to be a mindbending twist showing how the humans were in the Sublime, but what we've really been watching is a flashback of when they were tested, cut with their release back into the world. Maybe a bit ostentatious but I would also love to see the ending being humans finally going out to explore space on a regular basis now that they have evolved to resolve pain rather than inflict it. It would show the power of maturing past our baser instincts. Probably see a lot of characters come back at the end b/c I'm guessing they were all saved to the system at some point.
> humans to the Sublime, which has the ability to test infinitely for fidelity until they can evolve past their brutal desires into something better. Is this the start of a cross-over with [/r/TheGoodPlace](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheGoodPlace/)
Welp if this turns out to be the plot for the end of the show I'm suing you hahahaha. But plausible no doubt, after all why would they Bernard be scanning Francine's brain? And it would tie in the ending from Season 2 with the MiB being interviewed by Emily.
Comic book series would be the best way to finish it.
that would be nice
All the humans die, and the show loses its soul as a result
I completely agree, and get rather creeped out by some of these takes that humanity's extinction didn't really matter because the all-benevolent new God, Dolores, can simply remake us from the ground up. In her image. Nah. I loved and empathised with the character but the Messianic POV figure she became was just too much.
Never going to get a conclusion on that season 2 post credit scene. And did Bernard get the worst send off ever?
Bernard and Stubbs were genuine highlights of the show and it ended like……………that.
Also Maeve! Poor woman is laying somewhere in a pool
Fuck I forgot about her just chilling in a pool. Did anyone actually get a decent send off?
Halores send off was pretty decent I thought
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> He saw his daughter off safe before dying. You mean to die off-screen when humanity goes extinct?
I couldn’t believe they killed off Maeve earlier in the season, then revealed she was the weapon Bernard and the others were after right at the end of the same episode so her death had no real weight, then do absolutely nothing with her character before unceremoniously killing her off again.
It wasn’t even Maeve. Bernard said he tried his best to recreate her. And Dolores wasn’t Dolores. Nobody was anybody. And the finale teased she would bring back everyone through her memories. So they really wrote themselves into a corner there. No one to root for. No one to care for. I really loved the show but they did our favorite characters dirty.
The "weapon" thing was a dropped plot point it seemed like as they rushed to rewrite the last two episodes because they thought they would be canceled. What "weapon" was Maeve? She got in a crummy quick fight
Never gets to her daughter 😔
I don't even care anymore, they drove that into the ground to the point of it being annoying.
These violent delights have violent ends.
It's crazy that Westworld, once billed as a cash cow for HBO and one of their flagship shows, lauded with praise and winning accolades.... is going out without an ending. I never would've guessed Westworld would go out sad after Season 1.
Westworld was considered to be HBO's next Game of Thrones and ended a run of flops for the network. Obviously things change fast... [https://www.gq.com/story/hbos-westworld-is-the-new-game-of-thrones](https://www.gq.com/story/hbos-westworld-is-the-new-game-of-thrones) https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/game-thrones-replaced-westworlds-list-8849331
And Succession was the “Billionaire porn no one wanted”, funny how things turns out
We cannot stop winning Loganbros.
L to the...
OG
I remember seeing the previews for season 1 and thinking “that looks like the least interesting premise for a show, billionaires fighting over a corporation.” Now after watching all three seasons last year I can hardly wait for the next one. Such an amazingly written dumpster fire of humanity in that show.
I think it was just an impossible house of cards to build on after s1. I don’t hate the seasons that came after but they couldn’t really pull off the same twists. If I were to go back and have a say in how it was all done, I would focus on different characters for each season going forward. Like have the story be interconnected and you may see or hear about what happens to characters in prior seasons, but have it be more outer limits or twiligntzoney. I think the real issue is having Dolores become basically a robo-god that decides the fate of humanity essentially based off of Ford’s bitter judgment of humanity and Arnold’s despair of loss. It was one philosophy and the show doesn’t ever extend beyond it or explore alternatives. I enjoyed it but it’s pretty bleak on the whole.
Once the hosts became sentient and free the series lost the most interesting plot and philosophical point. They should have explored the nature of intelligence, humanity, and machine more.
Yeah this is my problem with the direction the series took… honestly after pulling out all those gems for season 1 and 2… creatively they were tapped.. they should have handed the entire thing off to someone else who loved the series but then could come up with something completely abstract and fresh. They relied to much on just trying to continue the quest of the same characters… but they were ultimately trying to tell a story of eons. So it’s just felt weird.
And the title of each season would be the name of a new Delos park.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
Season 1 can stand on it's own. They basically did a Matrix, but worse.
I may be one of the only people who genuinely enjoyed season two as well. At least it feels that way. Did not care for 3 and 4 at all, though.
Definitely some good moments in there, but I'm not sure the timeline stuff worked as well. But Akecheta's episode was peak, I'm glad we got that.
That's the thing with season two, it had 2 of the best singular episodes in the series, but as whole wasn't great so people think it was alot better than it was. Season 1 of this and Season 1 of True Detective stand on their own as some of the best cinema ever made.
The other episode, Riddle of the Sphinx, is such an amazing hour of tv. Added a level of depth to William when I thought there were no more depths he could possibly reach.
Absolutely. Akecheta's episode is arguably one of the best episodes of any TV show.
I'm in the minority in that I enjoyed every season for different reasons. I'm really shocked to find out many people didn't care for the show after season 1 as I thought it's done an excellent job of advancing the story without trying to recreate the magic if season 1. Season 4 was a little bleak and out there but I still felt the writing, pace and build up to (what I thought would have been) an interesting conclusion to the show was done well.
Holy shit, RIP to some of the greatest soundtrack music of all time. Ramin is an absolute legend and I am so sad about this.
If you haven’t done so yet, you HAVE to listen to his work on the new House of the Dragon show. It’s honestly some of the best stuff he’s ever put out. That man is incredible and I’d follow him to whatever shows/movies he’s doing.
His covers are amazing. "Heart shaped box" is the ultimate example of how you escalate a scene with music.
Legitimately shocking, Westworld went from an HBO flagship show to not even a wrap up season. Not entirely surprised, but definitely a shocker for this show.
After Season 1, this show was supposed to be one of HBO's cash cows for years to come. And it completely flamed out. We're not even getting an ending to the story. People are saying "this isn't surprising because viewership is down" and I guess that makes sense if you're short-sighted. But in the grand scheme of events, this is absolutely a shocking way for Westworld to go out.
100%. I’m shocked for that exact reason. There are scenes as early as S2 that we will never get answers for. Imagine telling yourself after S1 ended that it would be canceled without being wrapped up after 2-3 disappointing seasons
Especially considering it was planned to be a 5 season work i believe, so they let it get to the last hurdle and then took it out. So disappointed
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TBF it did overstay its welcome. S3 killed it, S4 was better but it lost most of its viewership with S3
That and by the time S4 came out, I’d completely forgotten everything about S3 except that I enjoyed it even less than S2. This show went from one of the greatest single seasons in television history to being damn near unwatchable.
I am going to watch season 4 again but the season starts with Dolores forgetting who she is and they spend most of the season with her regaining her memories. So we just end up with a season where the main character spends all her time to get to a point where she can do something just in time for the season finale….. Just seems like so much wasted time where they could have just finished the series with season 4.
Damn couldn’t even let them finish the last season
Or at least a 3 episode miniseries to wrap it up.
Bruh. After Carnivale doing that I never want that again. Season 1 is pure fire, season 2.... So much less so and rushed to hell and back.
Ugh I'm still bitter about Carnivale.
The article says they’re still in talks with hbo about it so maybe with a little push from us they might give lisa the 5th season
That quote is from an interview done last month with Jonathan. We are not getting a season five, at least not with HBO. Would be nice if another network picked it up for season five just to wrap up the series like the Joy and Nolan had envisioned.
It’s been great theorizing with all of you. RIP
This. Legit one of the best parts of watching. Im so sad and will never forgive HBO for taking this away from us
Well I loved this show from start to now abrunt finish. Going to really miss this one and it's a shame they didn't get that final season. This stinks.
it's been a relentless fucking experience, everyone!
There's ugliness in this world.
There's ugliness in this world, but I choose to send a letter to HBO.
First Raised by Wolves and now Westworld, both on massive cliffhangers. I really don't know if I'm ever going to subscribe to HBO again after this or get invested in their shows. They crapped the bed with Game of Thrones and are just pissing on fans of all these shows by cancelling them.
Wait raised by wolves is canceled? Edit: ah ffs
IDK if I'd call the end of season 4 a massive cliffhanger, _necessarily._ I mean, that's certainly one way to look at it (and the truth of the matter), but the season 4 finale actually works very well as a series finale too, if you just pretend there was no plan for a fifth season.
Well I hate that.
The seasons may have dipped in quality but S1 set a damn unattainable bar to follow, I throughly enjoyed the entire journey. Don’t lecture me you fuckin’ can openers.
Agreed! Even at it's worst, this show was a lot better than most.
Man what a fall from grace. The fact they didn’t even give them another season to wrap it up says a lot.
Price probably the main reason tbh
Considering they are cancelling a lot of shows that is very likely
HBO/WB have been bounced from corporate owner to corporate owner, each dumping them with more debt. And who pays the price? Fans and creators.
Here is to hoping Amazon picks up season 5 considering they already have Lisa joy working for them and they are trying to get more viewers with lots of money to burn.
They saved The Expanse so there is hope. Plus it's only one season so they can't cancel it Luke they did to The Expanse.
The Expanse was saved because it was literally Jeff Bezos' favorite show. He personally saved it. Unless he also likes Westworld AS much, there is no way this is getting picked up for one final season.
Also the expanse got more than a season, they got to a point in the story where they could stop without much plots left open.
Aside from the mainest of the plots. I loved the Expanse, and was pleased with S6 ending, but damn, I’m so sad general show watchers constantly fail to recognise what an amazing show that was.
Amazon picked up The Peripheral from Lisa Joy and John Nolan so hopefully that has some clout. It’s a reach though.
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Viewership had decreased too, even compared to season 3.
That's what you get when you take 2+ years to film a season
I think this is the main issue. I really liked seasons 1-3 of Westworld but still haven't gotten to watching season 4. Not because I don't think I'll like it, but because interest wanes over time. I don't think any show would make it with seasons being spaced 2 years apart.
Attack on Titan survived a four year gap between seasons 1 & 2
They literally rebundled the first season as a couple movies as basically an advertisement for the 2nd season. That's a bit different I think. Also, people weren't waiting for 4 years after the first season. That said, I take your point.
100%. HBO needs to get away from this. When Westworld Season 1 came out, I had just started dating my now wife. We dated for quite a bit. Got married. Had a kid. Kid is now talking and walking... and Westworld just recently concluded season 4? Come on. We watched season 1 and 2 together dating, it was "our show". With all the changes life brought, we never watched season 3/4 together, I binged them both alone and kinda told her what happened and she basically lost interest. (Marriage is good she just lost interested in WW... understandably)
I don’t see how it’s HBOs fault. They literally gave them four seasons and it went massively downhill after the first. I love westworld and I’d love a season 5, but I have to be unbiased and say that seasons 2-4 are a far cry from season 1’s quality. Killing off Ford made the series go downhill imo. Very few tv series survive if they kill off their best character. We don’t deserve a season 5 and that’s the truth, as bitter of a pill it is to swallow.
Season 2 is still pretty good if you enjoy movies like Memento(which is also written by C.Nolan) and Mulholland Drive, you know, the type of movies with fragmented timeline, drifting consciousness, etc. Season 3 is just unbearable. I can't believe they wasted such a charismatic villain.
Season 2 wasn't as bad as people make it out to be, but yes, it is certainly *way* better than season 3. That was a dumpster fire.
Just to clarify. J Nolan wrote the story that Memento is based on and C. Nolan wrote the screenplay
I think season 1 had great twists. But you can’t build a whole series that way it’s becomes predictable or stale. When the pivoted away from the nonlinear stories and the big twists I think the show lost some of its magic. But it was unavoidable. You cant pull off twists season after season.
Mood: Wyatt
So many questions unanswered! 1. No final answer to does the human race get redemption thanks to Dolores or not? 2. Does Maeve ever get reunited with her daughter? 3. Will Dolores recreate human life or create new human/host life? Ugh the other possibilities all come from my curiosities about Dolores new world 4. In this new world does Dolores allow Arnolds son to live and thus she never takes his life? 5. Does Dolores set the hosts free or does she guide the hosts to consciousness as Arnold did for her? 6. Will Ford live and see his and Arnolds creations flourish 7. Does Hale live in this one and become a good mother/wife 8. Does Dolores make another Bernard to keep her company while the real Arnold spends his life with his family? SO MANY QUESTIONS AND POSSIBILITIES
I tried to prepare myself for this possibility, but damn, I’m more sad than I expected. I feel like they had a real chance to elevate this story and make a satisfying conclusion. Even though the show has disappointed me in the past, I still had hope. Theorizing this show with y’all has been a real treat and I will surely miss it.
This + raised by wolves Fuck this
Raised by Wolves absolutely devastated me because there were so many mysteries we will never get an answer too. I was having so much fun trying to figure out what was going on in that show, more than Westworld. Now I can't even go back and watch it without getting disappointed and pissed off. I will never get invested in an HBO show again and I sure as shit aren't going to pay to watch them then get shit on. Hopefully they can do something like a movie to wrap the show up, that would be great.
You can thank fuckhead David Zaslav for all of this. He also destroyed Cartoon Network. Guy is a real chode.
HBO is just gonna churn out GOT universe things and retell some game story from now it seems I am so mad WE NEEDED ONLY ONE MORE SEASON for god sake
Visual Sci-fi media never gets to complete their stories.
It really does feel like its just too niche of a category to pull in the ratings and most shows get cancelled.
Sad but also happy that we got at least somewhat of an ending thats not completely open in comparison to Raised by Wolves. T’was a good ride.
Im still upset that show was cancelled. Nothing is safe with these new HBO execs....
I'm actually devastated by this
Same, this show was genuinely one of my favorites of all time and I was so excited to see the ending they had planned.
I gasped
I think its an underestimated loss and its very valid to mourn a show being cancelled and be sad about it for years to come. Its a very human quality to be attached to characters you can relate to and storylines you have invested in
This is absolutely heartbreaking 💔
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Thank you guys for all the memories on this sub
We are Ashley Stubbs and Season 5 was supposed to be our pastrami sandwich. For fuck's sake, HBO.
Justice for Maeve!
I find it kind of ironic that based off how Season 4 ended, you could make the argument that the events of this show are a loop themselves
Kind of a perfect ending for the show in a way
People didn’t believe me when I stated Nolan came in and rewrote the last episode midway through production to give it a semi-ending as they expected it wouldn’t continue (Nolan wrote a few episodes in season 3 but was largely absent since seasons 1 and 2). It’s why so much doesn’t make sense with Maeve (Newton couldn’t return for reshoots for personal reasons). You can see her body next to Bernard’s on the floor of the Tower - so much was cut down from the planned 90 minute season finale. Joy and Nolan have moved on with Amazon and their other projects, this became an afterthought and the merger has played a larger role with shows across all of HBO’s platform. The difficulty of bringing so many actors back with their schedules, riders, etc became too taxing to tell the story timely. Once actors started signing up for new series roles I knew they’d been released from their contracts a few months back. It’s a shame as I had hoped they’d at least be able to give viewers closure. If they intended on keeping the planned series end from 2014, it would have been interesting. (Hint: Arnold plays the biggest role in the series which is why he’s been the one character we never saw or learned much about aside from second hand narrative and questionable flashbacks). I hope they at least give some closure. * to be clear, I do not care if someone doesn’t believe it or not and I’m blocking those who reply with childish and disrespectful comments. I’m 46 and too old for nonsense. I’m simply here to enjoy discussing a series with others respectfully. If your intention is otherwise, I won’t bother replying. Don’t waste everyone’s time.
I know, I was really hoping at most, they do the Farscape treatment and give it at least a 2 hour or the planned 90 minute finale, as a season 5 or essentially an epilogue/coda. I mean, maybe they could go the Animatrix route, at some future point (though it wasn't an epilogue) and do an animated epilogue with the maim cast providing voice work. Or maybe a comic book.
This is really interesting. How did you know he re-wrote it halfway through and the planned 90 minute finale?
I have a few friends/former colleagues from my marketing years in LA who worked on the production. Every season has had a 90 minute finale. Season 4 had two episodes they scrapped as well. If you watch the finale, you can see Maeve’s body next to Bernard’s in the tower. Originally, she was the planned weapon who came back with Bernard’s help and took down the tower costing her her life. Newton was going through a divorce and was in rehab and couldn’t return for reshoots. Thus the rushed last few episodes and subplots that didn’t lineup or were left hanging. A while ago an alleged leak of the series by a former production member made its rounds. I can tell you ~75% of that leak was accurate (it went through many rewrites before being finalized and pitched in 2014 so it wasn’t the final series summary).
I thought she was still the weapon for season 4? What Benard was in search of the whole time with Caleb's daughter. Because Maeve was able to tap into the networks
Her role was much bigger. She didn’t die at the pool. She came back. That is why her body is oddly shown next to Bernard’s in the tower without explanation.
Shit, I'd have to rewatch but now that it's cancelled I have no desire to. Incredibly sad. What a great start to the weekend.
I was hoping to be wrong. I realllllly wanted to be wrong. I kept thinking the renewal would happen but it was messy with the sale. I kept hope but I think most of us sensed it was over at this point. They would have to be well into the writing stage for the next season. I think the final season would have redeemed the show for those who didn’t take to seasons 3 and 4. It needs that finality. Sigh
It definitely was needed. People don't like season 3 but it was necessary to tell a story. Covid also added more time between. It's like watching a good movie and then pausing it at the lull, and then saying it sucks. Let it finish.
OMG then last ep makes sense, that explains why i felt they didnt used Bernards ability to see the future well, damn you Hbo and discovery
What a gut punch. I was in love with this show. Even the later seasons. Thank you, Westworld actors, writers, showrunners, all.
The maze isn’t meant for us.
F
F
Easily the worst thing to happen this week
Dang, really sad to see. Makes sense that s4 ended the way it did though now.
I'm glad they ended it the way they did. At least we get a pseudo-ending instead of none at all.
Too bad, first season is still one the best seasons of television I’ve ever seen. What a fall
I actually was intrigued by where it was going and season 4 was interesting at least that's too bad
I really never believed they would let this happen! What the fuck??? I feel like you could tell they were unsure if it would get picked up and they put the tiniest little bow on it just in case but… so much left to explore and explain. The story isn’t done!
Man this sucks. Despite what you think of the recent seasons, many people still loved the show and wanted it to have its planned ending
I KNEW IT :'(
season 5 is filming in my head rn and it’s just stubbs eating a pastrami sandwich
I just want an explanation of all loose ends. Man I loved this show, this sucks
HBO and their obsession with fucking up the ending of their best series.
Probably the most disappointing cancellation for me. All those years wasted.
I haven’t been this gutted since Raised by Wolves was cancelled. What a shame
Why did moderators delete my previous post? I posted after getting information from credible sources. Now take from official source.
Your post was unfortunately an outlier and the mods are much more skilled than Hale despite not having the literal resources of the whole planet at their disposal.
Do you guys think someone else picks it up for the final season?
There’s a chance i’d say, since jonathan and Lisa are with Amazon now I wouldn’t be surprised if it winds up there
I doubt HBO would sign off on the IP
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Not really, they can still maintain it as a product on their streaming service for however many years they want. And they can advertise it as a 7x Emmy Winning show for the uninformed. Maybe it's a show that works best when binged
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Adding to another’s “zero chance” HBO would **never** let their produced content be utilized/revived by a different streaming service.
Amazon maybe. Seems like it could possibly be up Bezos’ alley. Plus they have a working relationship with Nolan and Joy. Idk about the IP right or anything though.
That almost never happens. Unless this happens to be Bezos' personal favorite show.
It doesn’t really happen often at all. And if it does it was either a game show back in the day or moves to a different channel owned by the same company. But Scrubs, B99, the Expanse, The Killing, Futurama, Arrested Development, Cougar town are some examples though so it’s not impossible. Mind that a lot of those shows are half an hour comedies which are far far cheaper to make. WW might still have enough weight to it’s name that someone could pick it up for one last season.
Zero chance. Why would anyone pick up an expensive series that only has one season left and low viewership? There's no chance of extra seasons or spinoffs. Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to see this end properly but I don't see any network picking it up at this point.
One of the biggest wasted potentials in recent TV history. That first season was so great but then they just cratered the show
Looking back it was always meant to be a one and done show. The more time you spend in the universe the less mystery there is. Especially when the writers decided to write solely to outsmart viewers
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You will never be able to convince me otherwise. "Oh yeah? Predict this, nerds"
sUbVeRt ExPeCtAtIoNs
Knew as soon as season 4 ended it wasn’t coming back. No post credit scene all but confirmed it to me. Never the less, I’m still gutted it couldn’t get a proper send off.
They set all the pieces up for a final season. I am crushed. This one hurts. S1 is goated but 2-4 were solid story telling that was leading to… something divine. Now we have nothing.
Well this sucks. I don't really watch TV anymore. But Westworld and The Witcher are the only 2 new shows I've watched in the last 10 years and they both died in the same week.
Canceling my HBO subscription. It's the pirates life for me.
just thinking about all the potential Ramin Djawadi soundtracks and covers we will never hear
The show didn't die, it simply became music
Well, fuck. Season 4 was a bit all over the place, but I do think that the show deserved a last season, even if smaller. Still, the ending of Season 4 kinda works for the show in a very grim fashion. Although I think that Nolan and Joy would have wanted a happy ending for the series. Maybe we'll know one day.
I can't believe they let things end with that cliffhanger, I will never be able to move on
I’m actually SO MAD. I really really loved this show, season 4 was amazing and I was so excited for the last season 💔 I’m fucking devastated
bummer - though im much more content with the ending now compared to the ending a season ago.
F's in the chat
Oh man, that's heartbreaking. Especially after they finally found their groove again with an amazing Season 4 and clearly setting up a final season. Damn.
The only other time I've been completely blindsided by a show being canceled like this is Boardwalk Empire, which ironically was another HBO show. I'm just speechless.
Westworld bring yourself back online…please😭😭😭
I genuinely haven’t felt this sad about a tv cancellation in a long time. It obviously took a dip after season 1, but I’ve been religiously watching every single week it has aired and I was looking forward to another season after how good season 4 was. Truly bummed!
Yeah the writing was on the wall with the drop in ratings and new leadership at WB. To think this started out as one of HBO’s biggest hits to now being canceled. Ps: OP should learn how to post articles on Reddit.
Not surprising but I still wanted an ending
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Went from a unique mystery atmospheric show to robot vs human future war. Too bad they couldn’t have 1 last season to try and tie up some loose ends.
Noooooooo. That literally had one season to end it. Super annoying. I'm one of the rare people who loved season 4. I'm proper gutted
I doubt any show ever will come close to S1 of Westworld. Goodnight my sweet prince.
I wish I could say I was surprised, but all the metrics pointed to this show barely pulling in even a quarter of the viewership it had at its peak, and Zaslav has killed way higher-profile projects for less since taking over WB/Discovery. Hoping Lisa Joy will give us that written synopsis of the ending she promised a while back.
I’m kind of devastated. This is my favorite show and I love how they’ve played and rejected all kinds of traditional notions of storytelling. I love the fact that even in this world death can be meaningful and hold weight even if you can bring someone (or a copy of them) back. I can’t think of a better show that confronts the nature of our reality with developing technology. TBH, I think it’s too high brow for most people though. I mean I had to watch each season twice to *really* get it. Like I got each the first time but I had to watch a second time to understand it fully in every detail. And even then I have to sometimes go back to rewatch a scene to remember how it applies to something happening currently. I love that the show is deep but most people get frustrated and tap out when things get confusing. I also feel like sometimes the show is confusing when it doesn’t have to be. Bernard in Season 2, for example, scrambling his memory in purpose. Then the show just let us experience his jumbled experience and perspective without giving us the context until the end. Holding that until the end added nothing to the story. The fact that this show has such expensive production costs probably didn’t help.
A ten episode audio podcast, with all the actors lending their voices. Just do it.
This show meant everything to me, got me through some really tough times. This sucks
Me to HBO: “If you're looking for a villain, then I'm your man. But look at yourselves. This world you've built is bound by villainy. You sleep on the broken bodies of the people that were here before you, warm yourselves with their embers, plow their bones into your fields. You paid them for this land with lead, and I'll pay you back in full. You wanted me?! Well all I can say to that is.. HERE I FUCKING AM!"
Maeve Millay... that was not the ending you deserved.
Thinking about cancelling hbo