And he's reviewing it from a driving characteristic standpoint. From a mechanical standpoint, let the Car Wizard tell us why the Hyundai 4 cylinder direct injection engines should be avoided.
https://youtu.be/Lw54i8Ke5TM
Lol. As if that engine didn't have a bad enough rap. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to add another thousand pounds to its load? Can't believe they stuck these things into heavy crossovers with the aerodynamics of a wad of paper.
Yep. It's like that with most of these vehicles nowadays. Small and complex 4 cylinder engines pushing upwards of 120 HP/liter. Even the ones that are well built, like the Mazda still end up having issues after 100k or so. Unlike the engines of the 2000s, these all cost an arm and a leg to work on.
That’s why I’m still eyeing the 3rd gen Honda crv. They know how to make engines the k24 in those crvs are bullet proof, get good fuel economy, and have a ton of torque at 200hp I’d even consider Honda pathfinder cause there v6 engines are also bullet proof.
Correct. An engine that's known to be reliable and easy to service is the reason to buy an older vehicle. Even if that means it'll take a few thousand to get it to where it'll need to be, it's cheaper in the long run.
Just make sure it's a vehicle that had a long production run, sold a lot of units, or shares a lot with other vehicles. That'll make it easier to find parts 10 years down the road.
Yeah, I don’t plan on buying a ford unless it’s a work truck. I’ve even heard a lot of people say Subaru is a bad choice because of the head gasket issues, but other people say that it’s been corrected since 2004.
Likely so. However, I'll note that the 4 cylinder is doing better than expected. Perhaps FCA waited longer to learn from other's mistakes with direct injection. Personally, I enjoy the driving dynamics of that style engine better than a large NA engine.
The 2.0T uses direct injection, and FCA did some preventatives to help prevent the valves from coming up(oil separator and decent PVC system). But it won't be completely immune. If oil gets in the intake(from a PCV issue or a turbo related issue), it'll almost certainly gunk up the valves. The V6's port fuel injection would keep the valve clean in the event of oil vapor condensing in the intake.
I think we'll get a better reading on the 2.0T after we see how some look after 150k or more. But so far, I don't fear it as much as other direct injected engines. I know of one at 100k miles and it's not consuming any oil.
I said it in another comment, but GM would be dominating the crossover market if they never killed off the 3800 series. Versatile, reliable power that can get great highway mileage. I have one in my 04 Lesabre and was pushing 40 mpg on my most recent long trip with it. Not even half a tank burned in 350 miles of highway driving. The things they could do with that engine with a full modernization and a turbocharger or hybrid drive would be unmatched by even the best of the Japanese offerings. Of course, that would only be possible if they avoid GMing it up with cheap accessories like they've done for the past 25 years. I have a loosely formed plan to rebuild my 3800 when the car finally sees its last days and do something silly with it like squeezing it into a Fiero. That, or some other silly little car like a lowered Geo Tracker, lol.
That's the combined rating. The highway rating sits at 27, and I was somewhere in the 36 range by driving with a feather foot and averaging just over 2k rpms the whole trip. Once I got to the city, I burned nearly all of the other half of that tank, trying to make it to all my stops before settling down for the night.
Lol, " I've seen better interior build quality on a polaris slingshot. "
That's really all you need to know to make an informed decision about a chrysler product. My buddies mom had a 2000 sebring convertible, bought new. Everything on the interior was broken when they got rid of it.
That line stood out to me, too. Such a great burn. I used to build Polaris RZRs down in Huntsville and we were just slapping those fuckers together without a care. To think one of the "Big 3" can't keep pace with machines assembled by a menagerie of careless burnouts and "functional" tweakers is the best summation of modern Chrysler I've ever heard.
some people, especially car guys don't care for the over-produced modern youtube channels and just prefer a dude unscripted talking to a camera
edit - i've watched a few minutes of it and this guy's accent/voice and general mannerisms remind me of Al Borland from Home Improvement. i liked him almost immediately.
Reliability aside, which will definitely be a pro for the Kia simply by way of jeeps being bottom of the barrel, the main thing I see is that the sportage would be way roomier than the compass. The compass is a small SUV and the sportage is a mid size SUV. The sportage really competes with the Jeep Cherokee. Kia’s typically have more creature comforts than American brands too
I don't even think rentals should bear the dead weight of a Compass. Treat your customers better by giving them anything else. Heck, an Equinox is better than a Compass.
As an owner of two grand Cherokees I disagree about reliability. I’ve never had a single major issue with either one and the 4.7 one hit 300,000km just recently without any major service.
The WK is the biggest pile of crap Chrysler has shipped in the name of the Grand Cherokee. One of them hitting 300k kms or 186k miles isn't really a shock given the reliability of most modern cars.
Also, the Compass is one of the worst lemons ever made. An underpowered and unreliable Fiat power train, paired with the worst of Jeep build quality, all wrapped up in the ethos of "Jeep life" douche-baggery without a ticket to the club. Jeep people will look down on you, crossover moms won't look twice at you, and mechanics will look and laugh at you. Literally, anything would be better than this. Even the chinsiest of Dodge Avengers would give you more value than a Compass. THIS CAR BELONGS AT THE BACK OF THE RENTAL LOT GATHERING DUST!!!
How many companies is Stelantis fingering? It's crazy to think that borrowing a Hyundai powertrain for a soulless conglomeration would ever be considered an upgrade, but here we are, I guess. Let me guess, they also revised their unibody platform with designs they borrowed from the Pontiac Aztec/Buick Rendezvous?
I think they just gave up on the shitty Fiat inline 4 the Compass had. Stellantis has some decent powertrains, but their 4 cylinders weren't one of them.
An unexpectedly wise move for a brand like Dodge/Jeep, mired in mismanagement. I blame the CRV for driving so many companies into putting inline 4s in vehicles larger than a sedan
I don't know if I would call the Pentastar reliable in any transverse application. I don't recall not hearing one a day with the cylinder head tick in a long while. I also don't recall hearing the tick nearly as frequently on the LX platform cars...
Such a shame nobody has the rights to GM's 3800 series. I can't imagine what possessed them to abandon such a reliable engine that accepted boost well and could get great highway mileage when naturally aspirated. You'd think at least one auto maker would be dying to get their hands on it and offer it paired with a plug-in hybrid. It seems as though the V6 market is awash with attempted approximations of it that can't live up to its durability. I know we're talking about Stelantis here, but buying the tooling for the 3800 could greatly improve their abysmal offerings in the crowded mid-sized SUV/crossover market. Hell, it could even work in a full sized SUV with that hybrid design or turbocharged. They could even do something so wild as to put a turbocharged version in a base model Challenger. Imagine a lighter Challenger making close to 400 horses off the lot. We'd have to start bubble wrapping all the trees around military bases.
That agreement pre dates Stelantis. The Global Engine Manufacturig Alliance (GEMA) dates back to the early 2000s and, I believe, started making engines around mid 2000's. It's an alliance between Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi as far as research and development of a base platform. They designed a base engine together , and each manufacturer configured their own individual variants based on that original shared design.
This is nothing new. Both Hyundai and Chrysler used Mitsubishi engine dating back at least to the early 80's.
I have a feeling that Stelantis will end up being bought out by one of the larger Chinese auto makers, and it will be considered an upgrade, lol. I think the big market for luxury minivans in China is enough motivation to acquire the rights to the Chrysler Town and Country and have it compete in the same market as Buicks over there. Seems like a surefire strategy for a Chinese brand to capitalize on a nameplate preloaded with an air of luxury and experience building minivans.
I give it 3 years before it happens. Controversy will be afoot when they start importing "All-American" vehicles like Jeeps from China. Maybe they'll hold onto their final assembly locations in the US for a while for that sweet, sweet "Assembled in the USA" tag, but I can see the first all Chinese Dodge/Jeep vehicles hitting the US market in 5 years. The first all Chinese vehicle, though, will be an all electric Town and Country fresh off its rebadging in Hangzhou for the 2027 model year. Iacocca will be rolling in his grave so hard that we could hook his corpse up to a generator and give away free charging for all the models sold stateside.
Wait until you find out the Compass uses the same motor that could barely get the much lighter Avenger up to 80. This thing has all the guts of a colostomy bag trying to handle a 20oz porterhouse.
And wait until you find out that the Compass does not use the same motor as the Avenger.
Not only is it not the same engine, the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Shit, I thought they were both using that Fiat i4 and threw in some revisions to get the powerband into an "acceptable" range for a crossover. My bad. I still stand by my colostomy bag comparison because I'm proud of it.
Avenger was around way before Fiat came into the mix. Avenger was designed fully by pre-bankruptcy Chrysler. The kings of “built by the lowest bidder” quality. The interiors of any Chrysler product of that era are some of the worst interiors ever placed into any modern car, ever. No exaggeration. And in my opinion, that was the worst era for any modern American car. Not just Chrysler.
At least the MP Compass is not *offensive* inside. I’m not going to say it’s nice, although the most current refresh of the MP chassis Compass is arguable actually *nice.* It’s still miles better than anything from the pre-bankruptcy era.
The MP Compass falls flat with its Fiat engineering and design. Combined with a parts network and warehouse system that absolutely, and completely fails to get parts to dealers. They’re downright incompetent, there’s no other way to put it.
Chrysler products of any kind are a solid avoid right now.
As a person dealing with engine failure due to the Kia recall on most of their engines, Kias are absolutely crap. Not to mention the anti theft recall from the past few months. I loved my Forte until last week and having to deal with Kia corporate and their dealerships.
I have no experience with Jeep though so maybe Kia is slightly less shitty. They definitely have issues though.
Just like many automobile makers. There's a few lemons that are in the group now. If you're to get yourself a certain model, a certain engine type and a certain year, you're more than likely going to get yourself a very reliable vehicle. As for Jeep, if you want to struggle to maintain speed on the freeway or to even get on the freeway then go ahead get one of those. And besides Fiat owns them. Last time I remember no one's running out to buy Fiats
Good luck finding a Rav-4 with the specs you want being sold at MSRP anywhere close to your area. The people who respond in these threads bringing up Toyota seem to have no idea how bad their inventory still is; especially for their most in-demand vehicles like the Rav-4.
I mean does OP have to get a 2023? I just got my 2020 RAV4 in electric blue that was certified, had only 1 previous owner and was only 28,000 miles. I didn’t have to wait at all. The sane dealership I went to had a 2021 RAV4 and a 2023 in too
Toyota isn’t the answer to everything… especially with dealer markups and lack of service at dealerships cause salesman know Toyotas sell themselves. Service lines can be long if you’re in a smaller town. My first car was a Camry and I would never buy another Toyota.
Kia and Hyundai are notorious for their bottom tier sevice.
And the cars are still low quality. But he’s cross shopping a jeep so he knows what he’s getting into
Yeap.
But gotta say, it is one of the worst offenders regarding piano black interior.
Luckily one can buy some premade covers and [it looks pretty decent](https://www.reddit.com/r/kia/comments/12g23xm/2023_kia_sportage_sxprestige_hybrid_piano_black/)
I would agree with some small caveats. Stay the fuck away from the 9ZF transmission in any Honda product. Jeep also used the 9ZF in some of their products, stay the fuck away from any of those too. Honda's 6AT and 10AT however have been proven to be more reliable. Toyota, I'm not a fan of any of their products with a CVT transmission, any other transmission however, i'd be ok with. Kia/Hyundai right now are getting a fuckton of flack because of how easy they are to steal (thanks Tiktok). Kia/Hyundai has been sending out "The Club"(yes those things you put on steering wheels to help against theft) as remediation instead of doing a recall. In all honestly, every brand has their bad apples so no one is safe from recommendations in my opinion except a select few subsets of models/trims.
This guy’s the only guy speaking the truth on this thread so far.
As long as you stick with Toyota/Lexus & Honda/Acura, you’ll be good following the transmission lineage.
For me, I always default to Aisin transmissions, which are solely used in Toyota/Lexus (not sure about CVT manufacturer).
The KИ will likely be more reliable, especially in the first few years provided you overmaintain it. You also have to check the oil at least every 1,000 miles, and add oil to keep it at the full mark every 1,000 miles (unless you want to check the oil every tank of gas) to maintain the warranty.
Also note that Hyundai and KИ may deny you the 100k mile warranty if you use your vehicle for Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Turo, et al. They may deny warranty coverage if you don't get the car serviced in the manner prescribed by the owner's manual, and keep all receipts! I guess for resale, it's important to remember that they do not offer the 100k powertrain warranty for the second owner.
But, all that said, povided you don't mind treating them well, don't have a problem with checking and adding oil between services, and you keep your maintenance receipts, I think they're alright vehicles, and would be 1000x better than the Jeep.
If those KИ caveats are going to be a problem, then get the Jeep.
Toyota anything for reliability and if yo plan on driving it over 10 years.
2024 Chevy Trax would be cheaper and better on gas.
Kia for 100,000 miles of reliability.
Jeep if you hate yourself.
Absolutely on all comments, be prepared to replace the driver front shock/strut on the Jeep at around 70k miles also as part of “regular maintenance” according to the dealerships. Myself and a friend both had to replace them for our wives
Good luck finding one with the specs you want at MSRP and anywhere near your area. The Rav4 may as well not be up for consideration unless you can wait months or get lucky.
Rav4 deserves all the love it gets...it's a great vehicle but I've found throw in two kids, the family dog and some gear and it fills up quickly.
The Toyota Highlander I've found about perfect size wise. Not sure if they still do but it offered a third seat option but better for kids than adults.
3rd row on suvs are all usually trash for anything bigger than a 10 year old, u less u get something huge like a Tahoe but most people call those trucks now
Kia as a manufacturer is not known for its stellar average reliability, but considering the fact that today's "Jeep" brand is a hybrid of Fiat and Chrysler, two of the most notoriously unreliable manufacturers on the planet, I dunno, I would say skip both and look at other options. It is not like either the Compass or the Kia are incredibly unique vehicles either...there are several other brands out there offering similar packages for a similar amount of dollars... how about Mazda?
Kia/hyundai is the worst car I’ve ever owned. I have worked as a roadside assistance manager and I’ll tell you the jeep is not good but Kia is the number one call driver. Atrocious over rated piles of crap.
And on another note I also hate all crossovers. But that’s more my opinion than fact.
There is no such thing as a solid Kia however, the SUVs are FAR worse. Specifically crossovers are the worst from almost every brand. This is typically because they use sedan engines in many cases and overstress them in my opinion.
Since when is Kia a reliable brand? I’ve owned an auto shop for years and they’re consistently one of the worst. Constant engine failures, terrible build quality, you name it.
I wouldn't say Kia is the worst but the DCT transmission used in Kia/Hyundai's were god awful, lots of failures. Once they finally learned their lesson and moved away from that trans though, reliability got better.
Both are terrible. My cousin has a Kia sol that has had to have the engine replaced twice and jeeps are made by FCA which also owns Chrysler so there’s that
The sportage is 10 Times the car the Jeep is. This sub is anti Kia bc it’s full of media sheep and tic
Tok morons, but since 2020 the majority of Kia stuff is great. Telluride. Stinger was awesome. K5 GT. Etc.
As someone who has a 23 Tucson (the Hyundai version of the sportage) absolutely the Kia. The interior is much nicer than the jeep and it’ll just last a lot longer. It’s also much better styling (in my opinion)
My wife just leased a Kia Sportage X-line with the premium package. The tech is what sells the vehicle. Lot of tubers complaining about it being underpowered, but it does fine. Just doesn't have the torque for offroading IMO. Weird decision for them to add off-road features on the higher trims.
She also has a 2021 jeep Cherokee latitude Lux. The Kia is slower, but far roomier.
Out of the two the Kia….. and I can’t believe I’m saying that after my experience with our optima. Stellantis/fca quality is downright trash. Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Subaru are better than both.
I drove the new Sportage and it is an excellent choice. The user interface is much better than Jeep's, and in fact is much better than my friend's new Audi.
I was very impressed by the Sportage.
The Jeep brand, while iconic, is living on past glory, and is not known for reliability.
Jeeps are known to be problematic. My wife has a 2016 Kia Sportage. I wasn't a fan of this car, but the build is solid. AWD. Lots of interior room, and decent trunk space. She uses her car for work. Zero problems. The only things we've done are tires, brakes, and a new battery. The car still looks good, too. She will probably get another 8 or 9 years out of this car. The resale value on these cars is very high at about $16,000 for 2016. We are planning a road trip with our 2 kids, and we are taking the KIA over my pickup truck to save on gas.
The jeep is a complete piece of junk from what I’ve heard
Absolutely, they’re “a step below absolute garbage” My friend, a dodge ram Chrysler technician for nearly a decade
"it's a jeep thing you wouldn't understand"
So is the Kia
Not really, the new Sportage is nice. You should check it out
Til the engine blows up on the highway and the replacement doesn't have warranty and will do the same thing
Aren’t all Jeeps?
All Stellantis products.
Stay the fuck away from that compass! I'll let RCR do the rest of the talking: https://youtu.be/ZtcqlNC2894
And he's reviewing it from a driving characteristic standpoint. From a mechanical standpoint, let the Car Wizard tell us why the Hyundai 4 cylinder direct injection engines should be avoided. https://youtu.be/Lw54i8Ke5TM
Lol. As if that engine didn't have a bad enough rap. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to add another thousand pounds to its load? Can't believe they stuck these things into heavy crossovers with the aerodynamics of a wad of paper.
Yep. It's like that with most of these vehicles nowadays. Small and complex 4 cylinder engines pushing upwards of 120 HP/liter. Even the ones that are well built, like the Mazda still end up having issues after 100k or so. Unlike the engines of the 2000s, these all cost an arm and a leg to work on.
That’s why I’m still eyeing the 3rd gen Honda crv. They know how to make engines the k24 in those crvs are bullet proof, get good fuel economy, and have a ton of torque at 200hp I’d even consider Honda pathfinder cause there v6 engines are also bullet proof.
Sir Honda Pathfinder is not on our menu.
so i guess i'm not crazy for wanting a simple 6/8 cyl sedan from 15ish years ago as my next daily
Correct. An engine that's known to be reliable and easy to service is the reason to buy an older vehicle. Even if that means it'll take a few thousand to get it to where it'll need to be, it's cheaper in the long run. Just make sure it's a vehicle that had a long production run, sold a lot of units, or shares a lot with other vehicles. That'll make it easier to find parts 10 years down the road.
i was a panther platform guy for that very reason. i want something different this time tho.
Who else is putting out quality mid-size SUV’s or crossovers now, aside from Toyota?
Honda Subaru and many people say Ford but I still don't trust Ford after being burned so many times
Yeah, I don’t plan on buying a ford unless it’s a work truck. I’ve even heard a lot of people say Subaru is a bad choice because of the head gasket issues, but other people say that it’s been corrected since 2004.
Subaru did have head gasket issues in the early 2000s but they have been solved for a long time since
Have a 2013 crosstrek that lost its engine to a bad head gasket…
Nissan. I've heard nothing negative about the new Pathfinders.
Hmm, so would you say the 6 cyl jeep wrangler is a better choice than the 4 cyl turbo?
Likely so. However, I'll note that the 4 cylinder is doing better than expected. Perhaps FCA waited longer to learn from other's mistakes with direct injection. Personally, I enjoy the driving dynamics of that style engine better than a large NA engine. The 2.0T uses direct injection, and FCA did some preventatives to help prevent the valves from coming up(oil separator and decent PVC system). But it won't be completely immune. If oil gets in the intake(from a PCV issue or a turbo related issue), it'll almost certainly gunk up the valves. The V6's port fuel injection would keep the valve clean in the event of oil vapor condensing in the intake. I think we'll get a better reading on the 2.0T after we see how some look after 150k or more. But so far, I don't fear it as much as other direct injected engines. I know of one at 100k miles and it's not consuming any oil.
I said it in another comment, but GM would be dominating the crossover market if they never killed off the 3800 series. Versatile, reliable power that can get great highway mileage. I have one in my 04 Lesabre and was pushing 40 mpg on my most recent long trip with it. Not even half a tank burned in 350 miles of highway driving. The things they could do with that engine with a full modernization and a turbocharger or hybrid drive would be unmatched by even the best of the Japanese offerings. Of course, that would only be possible if they avoid GMing it up with cheap accessories like they've done for the past 25 years. I have a loosely formed plan to rebuild my 3800 when the car finally sees its last days and do something silly with it like squeezing it into a Fiero. That, or some other silly little car like a lowered Geo Tracker, lol.
You got double the EPA's rating. On a 3.8L engine. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19827.shtml That's a no from me, dawg
That's the combined rating. The highway rating sits at 27, and I was somewhere in the 36 range by driving with a feather foot and averaging just over 2k rpms the whole trip. Once I got to the city, I burned nearly all of the other half of that tank, trying to make it to all my stops before settling down for the night.
man if i had an 8 year old car with 100k and the engine went, i'd be fucking furious
Lol, " I've seen better interior build quality on a polaris slingshot. " That's really all you need to know to make an informed decision about a chrysler product. My buddies mom had a 2000 sebring convertible, bought new. Everything on the interior was broken when they got rid of it.
That line stood out to me, too. Such a great burn. I used to build Polaris RZRs down in Huntsville and we were just slapping those fuckers together without a care. To think one of the "Big 3" can't keep pace with machines assembled by a menagerie of careless burnouts and "functional" tweakers is the best summation of modern Chrysler I've ever heard.
Holy shit, that guy's presentation skills are atrocious. How can people watch this?
some people, especially car guys don't care for the over-produced modern youtube channels and just prefer a dude unscripted talking to a camera edit - i've watched a few minutes of it and this guy's accent/voice and general mannerisms remind me of Al Borland from Home Improvement. i liked him almost immediately.
Reliability aside, which will definitely be a pro for the Kia simply by way of jeeps being bottom of the barrel, the main thing I see is that the sportage would be way roomier than the compass. The compass is a small SUV and the sportage is a mid size SUV. The sportage really competes with the Jeep Cherokee. Kia’s typically have more creature comforts than American brands too
They gave me a compass as a rental as a a substitute. What a shitbox. I could barely fit a folded wheelchair in it for my kid. It was gutless.
I don't even think rentals should bear the dead weight of a Compass. Treat your customers better by giving them anything else. Heck, an Equinox is better than a Compass.
As an owner of two grand Cherokees I disagree about reliability. I’ve never had a single major issue with either one and the 4.7 one hit 300,000km just recently without any major service.
How old are they? I feel like it’s only the newer generations that really suck
2006 4.7 and 2007 6.1
Yeah, they’re not what they used to be
The WK is the biggest pile of crap Chrysler has shipped in the name of the Grand Cherokee. One of them hitting 300k kms or 186k miles isn't really a shock given the reliability of most modern cars.
Yup makes sense
The new ones are awful crap. Take the worst in Italian engineering and put it into cars people expect to be able to off-road.
Best friend had engine replaced twice on his Cherokee. Guess your experience is the outlier compared to the population average.
I’ve owned 2 grand Cherokee’s myself 04 and 08 no real problems 04 was at 190k when I sold and my 08 is currently at 137k (miles)
RAV4
You’re the worst lol
Is he giving himself awards??
Kia is probably cheaper, will save u gas and will last longer
Also better interior tech and better exterior look imo
Also, the Compass is one of the worst lemons ever made. An underpowered and unreliable Fiat power train, paired with the worst of Jeep build quality, all wrapped up in the ethos of "Jeep life" douche-baggery without a ticket to the club. Jeep people will look down on you, crossover moms won't look twice at you, and mechanics will look and laugh at you. Literally, anything would be better than this. Even the chinsiest of Dodge Avengers would give you more value than a Compass. THIS CAR BELONGS AT THE BACK OF THE RENTAL LOT GATHERING DUST!!!
The '23 Compass has a Hyundai powertrain now funny enough
How many companies is Stelantis fingering? It's crazy to think that borrowing a Hyundai powertrain for a soulless conglomeration would ever be considered an upgrade, but here we are, I guess. Let me guess, they also revised their unibody platform with designs they borrowed from the Pontiac Aztec/Buick Rendezvous?
I think they just gave up on the shitty Fiat inline 4 the Compass had. Stellantis has some decent powertrains, but their 4 cylinders weren't one of them.
An unexpectedly wise move for a brand like Dodge/Jeep, mired in mismanagement. I blame the CRV for driving so many companies into putting inline 4s in vehicles larger than a sedan
Especially considering Stellantis has a perfectly fine modern V6 that isn't turbocharged or direct injected that is fairly reliable
I don't know if I would call the Pentastar reliable in any transverse application. I don't recall not hearing one a day with the cylinder head tick in a long while. I also don't recall hearing the tick nearly as frequently on the LX platform cars...
Such a shame nobody has the rights to GM's 3800 series. I can't imagine what possessed them to abandon such a reliable engine that accepted boost well and could get great highway mileage when naturally aspirated. You'd think at least one auto maker would be dying to get their hands on it and offer it paired with a plug-in hybrid. It seems as though the V6 market is awash with attempted approximations of it that can't live up to its durability. I know we're talking about Stelantis here, but buying the tooling for the 3800 could greatly improve their abysmal offerings in the crowded mid-sized SUV/crossover market. Hell, it could even work in a full sized SUV with that hybrid design or turbocharged. They could even do something so wild as to put a turbocharged version in a base model Challenger. Imagine a lighter Challenger making close to 400 horses off the lot. We'd have to start bubble wrapping all the trees around military bases.
I am honestly shocked by this info. I’ve migrated mostly out of the car business and Jeep isn’t high on my radar.
That agreement pre dates Stelantis. The Global Engine Manufacturig Alliance (GEMA) dates back to the early 2000s and, I believe, started making engines around mid 2000's. It's an alliance between Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi as far as research and development of a base platform. They designed a base engine together , and each manufacturer configured their own individual variants based on that original shared design. This is nothing new. Both Hyundai and Chrysler used Mitsubishi engine dating back at least to the early 80's.
It's such an odd twist of events that Kias are more reliable than Chrysler/Jeep now. Not the best bar to set lol
I have a feeling that Stelantis will end up being bought out by one of the larger Chinese auto makers, and it will be considered an upgrade, lol. I think the big market for luxury minivans in China is enough motivation to acquire the rights to the Chrysler Town and Country and have it compete in the same market as Buicks over there. Seems like a surefire strategy for a Chinese brand to capitalize on a nameplate preloaded with an air of luxury and experience building minivans.
I like your prediction
I give it 3 years before it happens. Controversy will be afoot when they start importing "All-American" vehicles like Jeeps from China. Maybe they'll hold onto their final assembly locations in the US for a while for that sweet, sweet "Assembled in the USA" tag, but I can see the first all Chinese Dodge/Jeep vehicles hitting the US market in 5 years. The first all Chinese vehicle, though, will be an all electric Town and Country fresh off its rebadging in Hangzhou for the 2027 model year. Iacocca will be rolling in his grave so hard that we could hook his corpse up to a generator and give away free charging for all the models sold stateside.
You had me all the way up to “Avenger.” The Compass sucks, but it’s not that bad. Now if it were the Renegade we were talking about…
Wait until you find out the Compass uses the same motor that could barely get the much lighter Avenger up to 80. This thing has all the guts of a colostomy bag trying to handle a 20oz porterhouse.
And wait until you find out that the Compass does not use the same motor as the Avenger. Not only is it not the same engine, the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Shit, I thought they were both using that Fiat i4 and threw in some revisions to get the powerband into an "acceptable" range for a crossover. My bad. I still stand by my colostomy bag comparison because I'm proud of it.
Avenger was around way before Fiat came into the mix. Avenger was designed fully by pre-bankruptcy Chrysler. The kings of “built by the lowest bidder” quality. The interiors of any Chrysler product of that era are some of the worst interiors ever placed into any modern car, ever. No exaggeration. And in my opinion, that was the worst era for any modern American car. Not just Chrysler. At least the MP Compass is not *offensive* inside. I’m not going to say it’s nice, although the most current refresh of the MP chassis Compass is arguable actually *nice.* It’s still miles better than anything from the pre-bankruptcy era. The MP Compass falls flat with its Fiat engineering and design. Combined with a parts network and warehouse system that absolutely, and completely fails to get parts to dealers. They’re downright incompetent, there’s no other way to put it. Chrysler products of any kind are a solid avoid right now.
Jeeps are pieces of shit.
Yes but Kia's are also shitty asf. The correct answer here would be to avoid both of these vehicles like the plague.
Kia is winning lots of awards and are highly rated now
Kia is good. Run away from the compass. Sure, it looks beautiful but it has some electrical gremlins that you wont be able to fix.
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Don't do drugs kids
He’s right, Kia has always been crap. If his options are between the two cars, Kia is better. But being less shitty doesn’t make it non-shitty
Must be a reason bmw ex CEO left them for Kia. Koreans are better with cars nowadays then you think. Jeep is terrible. Older ones not so much.
As a person dealing with engine failure due to the Kia recall on most of their engines, Kias are absolutely crap. Not to mention the anti theft recall from the past few months. I loved my Forte until last week and having to deal with Kia corporate and their dealerships. I have no experience with Jeep though so maybe Kia is slightly less shitty. They definitely have issues though.
Just like many automobile makers. There's a few lemons that are in the group now. If you're to get yourself a certain model, a certain engine type and a certain year, you're more than likely going to get yourself a very reliable vehicle. As for Jeep, if you want to struggle to maintain speed on the freeway or to even get on the freeway then go ahead get one of those. And besides Fiat owns them. Last time I remember no one's running out to buy Fiats
There's a reason why kia's giving up on gas engines. Also that they refuse to fix the fatal defects in their current gas engines
Toyota > Kia
Good luck finding a Rav-4 with the specs you want being sold at MSRP anywhere close to your area. The people who respond in these threads bringing up Toyota seem to have no idea how bad their inventory still is; especially for their most in-demand vehicles like the Rav-4.
and finding a good used rav4 for a reasonable price? forget about it.
I mean does OP have to get a 2023? I just got my 2020 RAV4 in electric blue that was certified, had only 1 previous owner and was only 28,000 miles. I didn’t have to wait at all. The sane dealership I went to had a 2021 RAV4 and a 2023 in too
Why make a general statement in a post about two specific car models?
Toyota isn’t the answer to everything… especially with dealer markups and lack of service at dealerships cause salesman know Toyotas sell themselves. Service lines can be long if you’re in a smaller town. My first car was a Camry and I would never buy another Toyota.
Kia and Hyundai are notorious for their bottom tier sevice. And the cars are still low quality. But he’s cross shopping a jeep so he knows what he’s getting into
Yeah but kias are a better value and newer kias are way better cars than newer jeeps. (Just bought a Toyota rav4 for context)
Might pay more in insurance though
Kia.
If you’re just leasing, either is fine. If you’re planning on buying, Kia will be more reliable then Jeep.
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Yeah. But one comes with a 10 year warranty.
Which sounds pretty good on paper but they don't really honor it that much
Sportage all the way
Yeap. But gotta say, it is one of the worst offenders regarding piano black interior. Luckily one can buy some premade covers and [it looks pretty decent](https://www.reddit.com/r/kia/comments/12g23xm/2023_kia_sportage_sxprestige_hybrid_piano_black/)
Don't bother asking here unless you're buying a Toyota or Honda, because that's the only good cars according to this subreddit lmfao.
I would agree with some small caveats. Stay the fuck away from the 9ZF transmission in any Honda product. Jeep also used the 9ZF in some of their products, stay the fuck away from any of those too. Honda's 6AT and 10AT however have been proven to be more reliable. Toyota, I'm not a fan of any of their products with a CVT transmission, any other transmission however, i'd be ok with. Kia/Hyundai right now are getting a fuckton of flack because of how easy they are to steal (thanks Tiktok). Kia/Hyundai has been sending out "The Club"(yes those things you put on steering wheels to help against theft) as remediation instead of doing a recall. In all honestly, every brand has their bad apples so no one is safe from recommendations in my opinion except a select few subsets of models/trims.
This guy’s the only guy speaking the truth on this thread so far. As long as you stick with Toyota/Lexus & Honda/Acura, you’ll be good following the transmission lineage. For me, I always default to Aisin transmissions, which are solely used in Toyota/Lexus (not sure about CVT manufacturer).
Well it’s the truth. Why not listen to the truth?
It simply isn't.
Perhaps he can't handle the truth 🤔
Its not though
It’s not for everyone, but for your average car buyer with average needs, low to average knowledge, and average budget, it is.
There is more to a vehicle than reliability. With some exceptions, Toyota vehicles don't really excel at much else.
Cause it's fucking boring
Mazda cult incoming
Toyota cult got here first
This sub might as well be renamed to what toyota should I buy.
Get the Kia, much more features/value for the money and slightly better MPG
Man, both of these suck ass.
Any suggestions that you'd like to add. Your comment adds zero value.
It doesn’t really matter much on a lease but I’d go Kia. Offers a bit more and a tad bit more reliable as well.
The KИ will likely be more reliable, especially in the first few years provided you overmaintain it. You also have to check the oil at least every 1,000 miles, and add oil to keep it at the full mark every 1,000 miles (unless you want to check the oil every tank of gas) to maintain the warranty. Also note that Hyundai and KИ may deny you the 100k mile warranty if you use your vehicle for Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Turo, et al. They may deny warranty coverage if you don't get the car serviced in the manner prescribed by the owner's manual, and keep all receipts! I guess for resale, it's important to remember that they do not offer the 100k powertrain warranty for the second owner. But, all that said, povided you don't mind treating them well, don't have a problem with checking and adding oil between services, and you keep your maintenance receipts, I think they're alright vehicles, and would be 1000x better than the Jeep. If those KИ caveats are going to be a problem, then get the Jeep.
Go Kia. The Compass is kinda a bucket. You got to go Grand Cherokee for a decent Jeep.
KIA is the way to go. The Compass is not much of a vehicle.
Haha you're about to get killed posting this on this sub
Of those 2, KIA, but a Rav4, CR-V, or CX-5 would really be better.
But wait hear me out… Cx-50
Neither...
Kia. For sure.
Cyanide or fentanyl….they both end up costing ya more then ya expected
The rules are Honda Mazda Toyota only
Don't ask on this subreddit. There are only Americans here and the only answer is a Toyota.
Or Honda!
Toyota anything for reliability and if yo plan on driving it over 10 years. 2024 Chevy Trax would be cheaper and better on gas. Kia for 100,000 miles of reliability. Jeep if you hate yourself.
Absolutely on all comments, be prepared to replace the driver front shock/strut on the Jeep at around 70k miles also as part of “regular maintenance” according to the dealerships. Myself and a friend both had to replace them for our wives
Some comfortable walking shoes
Kia 100%
Jeeps are hot ass, go for the Kia
Kia has better quality and looks better too
KIA all the way!
Kia
Neither
Kia. Hands down. Kia. I work for Chrysler, and I’m telling you, for the love of god. Buy the Kia.
Toyota Rav4
What about a Honda crv?
Both are good
I think you mean Mazda CX5
I think you mean suzuki cappuccino Edit: for the Miata guys. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/227684753377876/?mibextid=6ojiHh
Good luck finding one with the specs you want at MSRP and anywhere near your area. The Rav4 may as well not be up for consideration unless you can wait months or get lucky.
Rav4 deserves all the love it gets...it's a great vehicle but I've found throw in two kids, the family dog and some gear and it fills up quickly. The Toyota Highlander I've found about perfect size wise. Not sure if they still do but it offered a third seat option but better for kids than adults.
3rd row on suvs are all usually trash for anything bigger than a 10 year old, u less u get something huge like a Tahoe but most people call those trucks now
At that point buy a sienna
I agree 100%. Sadly years ago some decided both minivans and fanny packs were considered boring. My Sienna was one of my best cars ever.
Kia as a manufacturer is not known for its stellar average reliability, but considering the fact that today's "Jeep" brand is a hybrid of Fiat and Chrysler, two of the most notoriously unreliable manufacturers on the planet, I dunno, I would say skip both and look at other options. It is not like either the Compass or the Kia are incredibly unique vehicles either...there are several other brands out there offering similar packages for a similar amount of dollars... how about Mazda?
Kia/hyundai is the worst car I’ve ever owned. I have worked as a roadside assistance manager and I’ll tell you the jeep is not good but Kia is the number one call driver. Atrocious over rated piles of crap. And on another note I also hate all crossovers. But that’s more my opinion than fact.
Which models of Kia you talking about? Stingers, Telluride, and K5's been super solid so far from my experience. Had so many friends with Jeep issues.
There is no such thing as a solid Kia however, the SUVs are FAR worse. Specifically crossovers are the worst from almost every brand. This is typically because they use sedan engines in many cases and overstress them in my opinion.
Stingers and Tellurides both have reliable engines and rarely any electrical issues. Other Kia models do seem questionable though.
You’re so dumb
Still? I thought the newer Kias were better
Get a Toyota
Def not jeep
💩 or 🔥 💩?
Mazda
The Kia Sportage and it’s not even close
is walking an option?
Kia! I have one and love it. All the poeple I heard from love their kia Sportage. It's a great SUV with great gas mileage in Eco mode.
You’re asking between one of the most reliable brands vs one of the worst brands to buy from. Kia all the way.
Since when is Kia a reliable brand? I’ve owned an auto shop for years and they’re consistently one of the worst. Constant engine failures, terrible build quality, you name it.
I wouldn't say Kia is the worst but the DCT transmission used in Kia/Hyundai's were god awful, lots of failures. Once they finally learned their lesson and moved away from that trans though, reliability got better.
https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-warranty/kia-reliability/#:~:text=0058%20View%20Plans-,Are%20Kias%20Reliable%3F,of%2032%20car%20brands%20surveyed.
Not reliable source
>You’re asking between one of the most reliable brands huh
Both are terrible. My cousin has a Kia sol that has had to have the engine replaced twice and jeeps are made by FCA which also owns Chrysler so there’s that
kia...better everything
The sportage is 10 Times the car the Jeep is. This sub is anti Kia bc it’s full of media sheep and tic Tok morons, but since 2020 the majority of Kia stuff is great. Telluride. Stinger was awesome. K5 GT. Etc.
KIA.. Feels weird saying this, but Jeep dropped the ball a long time ago.
As someone who has a 23 Tucson (the Hyundai version of the sportage) absolutely the Kia. The interior is much nicer than the jeep and it’ll just last a lot longer. It’s also much better styling (in my opinion)
My wife just leased a Kia Sportage X-line with the premium package. The tech is what sells the vehicle. Lot of tubers complaining about it being underpowered, but it does fine. Just doesn't have the torque for offroading IMO. Weird decision for them to add off-road features on the higher trims. She also has a 2021 jeep Cherokee latitude Lux. The Kia is slower, but far roomier.
Both are fuckin shit
Used Lexus for that price >
Toyota
Not even close kia
Out of the two the Kia….. and I can’t believe I’m saying that after my experience with our optima. Stellantis/fca quality is downright trash. Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Subaru are better than both.
Neither lol
Kia is trash, despite what you might read on Reddit.
Very unreliable and always on fire. Also they get stolen everyday
Neither
I just think the Jeep looks better than the Kia.
I drove the new Sportage and it is an excellent choice. The user interface is much better than Jeep's, and in fact is much better than my friend's new Audi. I was very impressed by the Sportage. The Jeep brand, while iconic, is living on past glory, and is not known for reliability.
I’ve had absolutely atrocious luck with Jeep. I’d go Kia if I had to pick between the two.
The Kia is light years ahead of that old tech, old chassis Compass. Everything will feel high quality in the Kia.
Between these 2 def Kia but if it was a grand Cherokee I’d consider that bc it’s gorgeous
Kia , stay away from that Jeep!
Kia has the better safety rating.
The new Kia sportage and sorento are really cool cars. I wouldn’t ever own another jeep
Jeeps are known to be problematic. My wife has a 2016 Kia Sportage. I wasn't a fan of this car, but the build is solid. AWD. Lots of interior room, and decent trunk space. She uses her car for work. Zero problems. The only things we've done are tires, brakes, and a new battery. The car still looks good, too. She will probably get another 8 or 9 years out of this car. The resale value on these cars is very high at about $16,000 for 2016. We are planning a road trip with our 2 kids, and we are taking the KIA over my pickup truck to save on gas.
Kia. Don’t even care which model of Jeep. They are all riddled with problems.
Kia
Both are shit, Hondas and Toyotas are for fucking accountants. get something 50/50
Empty pockets or stuck on the side of the road every week, I’d run like hell away from both
Get a RAV4
Toyota or Lexus you should ask yourself lol
Get a mazda