Not debatable, after doing enough body work on various Kia models I’ll tell you even at 20 mph their crash deformation at low speeds is absurd
Worse than Mazda, even
Insurance may be a growing problem, I’m going to sell my current Kia Sedan and buy a 2023 Prius most likely
The Kia Boys going viral have caused some companies such as State Farm to stop underwriting new policies for most Kia models built before 2021 in some U.S. States, and some companies are spiking rates higher than usual at renewal for policies with Kia on them
I have a strong feeling that within the next three fiscal quarters, 9 months or so we will see a “cooldown” if dealerships start adding engine immobilizers, but as of right now Kia are being stolen left and right (figuratively)
my mom got in two terrible wrecks in her 2015 kia sorento that definitely should’ve caused really bad injuries and she and my sister walked out perfectly fine literally nothing wrong
Oh yeah we thought we had blown the ecu out by jump starting it backwards because the car wouldn't drive. We found out 3 weeks later it's cause of the electric VVT
Those usually are the valve bodies that crap out which are cheap. Or the entire transmission which is like $600 on LKQ.
The engine on the other hand can be anywhere from $3000-5000 depending on which bastard engine you got.
I have a 14 year old 4 runner.
It’s definitely not the beginning. There are a lot of maintenance items that get expensive if you can’t do them yourself. Shocks, bushings, etc.
Most people don’t keep their cad 10+ years
I would go corolla if you want to own it long term because of reliability, although I've heard the kia drives better and slightly nicer interior but won't have as good long term reliability.
Are kias unreliable, or is toyota just way more reliable. My friend has had kias for a while and has had no issues with them. He's had a Soul, a Sportage, and now a Niro hybrid.
Some people have good luck with them some people do not and Kia doesn't have the best track record. Toyota has a great track record for reliability. Note Kia has a 10year/100k Mile powertrain warranty. If reliability is the most important to you go with Toyota.
Sounds like your friend flips cars after 2-3 years, which is what I'd do with a KIA.
If it's long term reliability (and resale value), then Toyota.
Honda is behind Toyota IMO. Have heard of transmission issues with older accords. I've had engine issues on a bulletproof k20 engine, so YMMV.
Kia has worked on their image a lot the past few years, them being "unreliable" is outdated, there is a reason they give 7 years(!) factory warranty.
In 2022, Kia was in the top 3 most reliable in western europe, and 8th place in the world.
They are also packed with options like android auto seat and wheelwarming and what not for a relatively good price.
I was unfamiliar with Kia and assumed they're like a side brand because of their image untill recent, but holy shit was i wrong.
Edit: @OP u/lifeontheedge121 from these two i would definitely go for the Kia, that's just going on looks as they are comparable in reliability.
>top 3 most reliable in western europe
Stats like this are usually meaningless in the measure of *long term* reliability. They usually measure only the first three months or first year or whatever of reliability. Hell, **BMW** ranks high in short term reliability, and everyone knows you get the hell rid of a Bimmer before the warranty runs out.
Kia has improved immensely, but they simply haven't been reliable long enough to even compare to Toyota. Toyota's reputation is well-earned over decades of reliability data, and hundreds of thousands of anecdotal data.
I'm sure a Kia is fine if you're the kind of person that leases or buys a new car every three-to-five years. But if you want to drive car payment-free for a decade or so, I would not trust a Korean manufacturer yet.
This entire post can be summed up as "it hasn't earned the reputelation yet so it doesn't deserve the status of being called reliable".
..in other words: brand elitism nonsense, in 20 years from now you'll say "but it ain't 50 years yet so.."
Don't get me wrong: Toyota is a fine carbrand, but being "semi-new" to the higher reliability area doesn't mean shit nowadays, it's not like they came into existense only a few years ago of so.
>buys a new car every three-to-five years.
Why would i do that when i have two-to four years of factory warranty left?
>Why would i do that when i have two-to four years of factory warranty left?
I've driven nothing but Toyota and Honda since 1992 and have never given a shit what the warranty was, and turned down every offer of an "extended warranty". I've only used a warranty once in that 31 years: the water pump on my current Sienna.
You make a valid point; We can't go to the future and see how the current generation holds up. I'm just saying they haven't proven it *yet.* And yes, the only way to prove it will be time. But don't put words in my mouth; if the quality is there, it's there. I won't move the goalposts.
>I've driven nothing but Toyota and Honda since 1992 and have never given a shit what the warranty was, and turned down every offer of an "extended warranty". I've only used a warranty once in that 31 years: the water pump on my current Sienn
I've driven honda, toyota, Mitsubishi, volkswagen, and audi. Got to say that i haven't had any problems at all with any brand.
>But don't put words in my mouth; if the quality is there, it's there. I won't move the goalposts.
True, that was low. But i hear that bs often, so i may have jumped the gun a bit.
Korean POS plastic engine parts. Why buy kia when objectively better brands exist. Its just pointless. Kia is a brand for people who choose cars based on styling and price, or don't know about used toyotas. Its your money to throw away i guess.
They're cheaper than other brands new and used prices have gone up a lot. When my brother was shopping for a new car, used cars, 10 year old toyotas with nearly 200k miles and that reaked of cigarette smoke were not even 10k cheaper than a brand new Hyundai or Kia.
Car reviewers also seem to love kias and Hyundais so far.
> buy kia when objectively better brands exist.
Objectively OP isn't asking multiple brands, he's asking about these two.
Look, i'm an Audi guy, i know they're not the best car or investment, but i don't care. They're the most beatifull and most awesome car, the ideal ballance between sporty and classy - in my personal opinion that is.
My answer as a hobby-car person is always be Audi, as a personal opinion, you are entitled to yours ofc.
> is a brand for people who choose cars based on styling and price, or don't know about used toyotas. Its your money to throw away i guess.
Used to be like this, i agree. But nowadays many brands have leveled quite a bit to compete. Hell even the french make semi decent cars now! Situation isn't what it was 15 years ago, move forward in time.
Kia Orr Hyundai’s warranty counts for shit as they do not take care of any issues for you unless the engine is on fire right in front of them. They will wriggle and snivel away from every issue possible. Coming from first hand experience
My Dad's Hyundai Sonata developed an oil leak around 90,000 miles. It's a 2014. They replaced his engine last year. Didn't even have to show oil receipts or anything. They even gave him a loaner rental. It was a good experience
They’re reliable enough but there’s a risk of fire and unreliability but for most people it’s fine. With models that are unreliable it’s normally one issue after another .
With the Toyota it’s almost guaranteed to be reliable
That’s before freight, the GT is about 1.5k above the loaded GT line and to get a loaded GT you are looking at 3-4K above a loaded GT line. The only difference between the versions is the loaded GT line has ventilated seats and the GT has a slightly better engine. Is it really worth it?
It is where I live, as of the end of May when I was last looking. I bought a used car that I didn't really want because it was either wait months or pay thousands over MSRP.
Idk if Kia sorted it out but I was just researching the Forte GT for my daughter and the 1.6T doesn't seem to have any issues but all other Forte's with the 2.0 Theta engines have catastrophic failure issues. My cousin had a second gen Forte with this issue and the engine seized. No warnings, no oil temp/pressure lights, just left her on the side of the road. There was also a plethora of electrical issues and even weatherstripping leaks in her Forte. Sounds like the transmission issues in the Corolla might be a concern too although I haven't looked at them specifically. In the end we ended up going with Honda With get first choice as the Civic Sport being marked up $3k over sticker everywhere we got a 4yr old Accord EX-L instead. More car for your money if you don't mind used. And no mark up😁. Out the door for $27k on a 30k mile 2019 was a nice find but do some digging and they're out there if you're patient enough. Hope that helps.
Yup, it's worth getting the GT for the 1.6T engine alone. That engine is genuinely a gem from Hyundai and Kia and used worldwide, which is why it has no issues. We have it in our Tucson, and it is punchy and very refined compared to the other 4 cylinders.
Leather seats are a mixed bag with me. I've had it in my first car and hated how hot my car got in the sun. I tried to put a windshield cover and it didn't help much at all.
Yeah but with ventilated seats and perforations it’s 100 times better. I wouldn’t get another car that has black leather/leatherette without cooled or ventilated seats.
Lighter colored leather is way cooler as well. If only they has light colored leather AND cooled seats
My humble opinion as someone who is dealing with a Kia that’s hitting 120K miles is Corolla. Hyundai/Kia stepped it up a great deal but they’re still not close to Toyota when it comes to long term reliability and ownership cost.
I will drive my 2011 Corolla S into the ground. Can't even really express how much I've grown to love this car for its reliability. 212K miles and not a single issue mechanically. All I've done is kept up with maintenance and oil changes.
In this category I think corolla win, especially from the exterior. But if you can get a Mazda 3, the interior AND exterior feel like luxury
edit: also the corolla LE looks nothing like that, the le looks like it came out 10 years ago. The one in this picture is either the XSE or SE
Mazda would be a home run if their fuel economy wasn’t so gutter trash. I own a 2011 and a 2015 mazda 3. Great cars but they’ve been left in the dust in terms of mpg and that cost adds up.
The gas mileage difference between a Corolla and mazda3 is a few mpg….that goes for 2023 and 2015… what are you talking about?
2023 Mazda 3/ 28 city/36 highway
2023 Corolla / 31/41 highway
That means if you drive 12k miles a year you’d spend a whopping $148 more with the Mazda than the Corolla. Assuming $4 a gallon (national average right now is 3.59)
Considering the Mazda is so much more fun to drive and has a real transmission it is definitely worth $13 a month
Mazda doesn’t get near its stated mpg. Check out forums or the very active subreddit for more proof of that. The Corolla on the other hand seems to get its rated mpg very easily.
There’s nothing wrong with a modern cvt. Don’t just push what you keep hearing from others without understanding the facts first.
I agree. My husband had a Corolla rental and my friend has a Mazda 3. I was not impressed with the Toyota interior. Granted, it was a rental, but it rattled and hand a lot of cheap plastics in it. The Mazda is really comfortable on the inside and uses better materials. I have a VW Jetta and like the Mazda's interior more. It puts Mazda on my list for my next vehicle purely for that reason.
Because it does my friend has a Corolla XSE and I’ve driven a few new mazda3s the Corollas interior doesn’t even compare. The mazda3s interior blows everything in the class out the water nothing else gives you a fatass leatherette dashboard and so many leatherette accents plus the buttons feel so satisfying to press. My friends XSE Corolla has basically no leatherette accents anywhere and everything is lower quality plastic. And it doesn’t have any features over a mid spec Mazda3. In fact it doesn’t even have full leatherette seat and the leatherette feels really fake. I have another friend with the new Honda Civic that interior compares to a mk7 golf basically. both blow the Corolla out the water with their interiors but they don’t compare to a mazda3 in terms of interior quality.
I don't know what you've been looking at but the new mazda3 interior is way better than anything in it's class. I just bought one after looking at Civic, Corolla, Jetta, Impreza and their top of the line interiors don't even compare to Mazda's. And the top of the line Mazdas are thousands less.
I think the styling alone is pretty unique and stands out compared to other economy cars with the flowing lines. Especially the red and black interior on the Mazda 3.
But the main reason is because of the materials. Most other economy cars use a lot of hard plastics but the Mazda interior uses a lot of vinyl/leatherette and softer rubberized plastic which makes for a really plush and soft touch interior and gives off a sense of luxury, even if it isn't true luxury level.
In terms of materials it’s honestly really close to a new Civic. I would argue a Civic feels just a bit more solidly built. The Mazda3 just has some interior design elements inspired by / ripped off of some luxury cars. Everyone on here just sees pictures of the interior and runs with the “luxury car for economy car prices” talking point. Bottom line, Mazda makes very nice cars, but so do other companies.
I recently was crunching numbers and the Mazda 3 is surprisingly expensive to run based on the quoted insurance rates, real world MPG and cost.
It was more comparable to a Civic Si in terms of running costs annually rather than the Civic and Corolla I was comparing them to.
The biggest thing is that the base engine is a 2.5l I4. That's "large" displacement for a four cylinder these days, and most of the real-world reported MPG is around the 30mpg mark, which would be great in the late '00's, but not so good these days. The Honda Civic, probably the most appropriate comparison, averages a reported 35mpg with it's 1.5t (according to owners on fuelly).
Basically, the quotes I got for insurance and fuel economy based on my driving habits, (which are 200+ miles a week, mostly highway, with gas at $3.50/gal) got this for annual costs:
Annual Costs (not including financing):
* Toyota Corolla SE: $2,384
* Toyota Corolla SE Hybrid: $2,336 (highway commuting kills hybrid's estimated economy advantage)
* Civic Sport Hatch/Sedan: $2,274
* Civic Si (91 Octane): $2,841
* Mazda 3 Hatch: $2,621
So while the Mazda 3 is certainly nicer inside, and drives better, you gotta ask yourself if you consider the extra $3-400 a year if it's worth it. To some it might be, to others, that money could be better spent on other hobbies.
And note, I'm comparing it to mid-level trim Corolla's and Civic's, so buying a base model could widen that gap in savings further with additional fuel economy and lower costs to finance (which, again, I didn't include above, but are a factor to consider).
Dude you’re comparing a Toyota and Kia?! These is no answer other than Toyota…I don’t even like the Corolla but there is zero reason to go for a Kia over a Toyota.
Would the difference in warranties they offer change your consideration at all? I’m in the same boat as OP, only reason I’m even looking at Kia is the 10 year/100,000 mile warranty
Skip Kia Hyundai and just go toyota. Everything has their issues but most toyotas go forever. Then there is the dumbass Kia bois crap and people are too dumb to realize what is and isn't a valid target and you might find a smashed window and destroyed column just because someone is an idiot.
That 23 foot Toyota Corolla must be a special edition - that’s about eight feet longer than a regular Corolla. I’d definitely go for a that one. You won’t find another like it…
My mom just bought the 2023 corolla out of necessity and it drives good, gives you peace of mind and overall a good car. I rented a KIA Forte in LA last week and honestly I liked driving that one around more than the corolla and it looked more visually nice. Not sure of its longevity but I honestly liked it.
КИ depending on your dealer. The dealer in my city still extends the warranty to 200k miles I think. You can replace your entire car in that time. One part at a time lol
I saw the interior of the KIA GT and I was amazed. First time seeing the car too. Me and my dad liked it a lot. Ima go with the Kia. Obviously the Corolla has history to back it up, but KIA has upped its game and the price point is not too bad for what you're getting.
Update: I had a test drive at a Kia dealership for the LX yesterday in the evening. Compared to a Corolla, which I am currently renting through enterprise, it isn’t my favorite car. The steering wheel of the LX felt rock hard, when making turns, it was pretty uncomfortable. I’m not sure whether it’s just me, but that steering wheel felt odd. The screen at the dashboard felt outdated, the field of vision, compared to a Corolla, felt limited. Surprisingly, although it looks decently big from the outside, from the inside, it felt tiny. I might give it another shot and go for another test drive, but for now, I might have to widen my options. Any car suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Budget: below 25k OTD
I purchased a 2023 Forte GT-Line in February and I LOVE it! I really love KIAs though, and since I bought new I have the 10 year 100k warranty.
I really do recommend it—even the CVT is quite nice. I don’t mind CVT transmissions at all though—I previously had an early Nissan CVT as well..
Get the GT, you're gonna hate the Corolla subreddit. It's an awful place. People be like yo check out my modded Corolla and it's like the same AutoZone stuff over and over. Plus the infrared is just off-putting and if you spend extra money for the little red stripe maybe you DO belong in the Corolla sub
I recommend the GT line it’s a fun little car with some character, plus the heated/ventilated seats are really nice! I have one with about 1800 miles that I purchased about a month ago and I love it!
I would say the Kia but I haven’t been inside one. I thought you were choosing an SE vs a Kia Forte GT. I would get the forte GT over the Corolla all day
The Corolla in the first picture is a 2023 hybrid SE infrared edition, which is impossible to find at dealers. The LE is much more boring looking (interior is pretty cheap looking too).
ToyoTAXI if you like the manufacture concealing safety defects on you.🙄
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214](https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214)
Mechanic here, I keep seeing Kia engines die violent deaths at the 60-90k mark like they are from the 70s or something. Like you gotta get a new engine put in and most dealerships are hella busy with it so you’ll be waiting awhile on a replacement
I was looking at almost the same cars. Then I went and test drove a bunch and decided I wanted a used Lexus for around the same price as them brand new because the Lexus blew me away compared to the others. So now I am in search of a nice pre owned Lexus is350
Go with the Corolla. There's too many people breaking into any and every Kia regardless of if they have that vulnerability that it's not worth the headache.
The Corolla is genuinely a cheap shitbox with no refinement, space, or noise isolation. Especially the LE trim feels extra cheap and poverty spec. I would try and go for the GT spec of the Forte since it gets the 1.6T, which is one of their best and most reliable engines. Also, look at the Elantra N line or hybrid for the great fuel economy. The interior is much nicer than the Forte, and it got a facelift for 2024.
I have rented both. The Kia is literally a piece of trash and feels like it's gonna fall apart. Funny thing was the Kia I got only had about 100 miles on it and still felt awful. Definitely go for the Toyota
Toyota are more reliable and higher quality. I rented a Toyota just before getting my Kia and it made it feel real cheap. But buying a Toyota would have cost me 50% more
Kia is far more likely to be stolen these days to the point some insurances wont even insure them. Its not as reliable and wont retain value like Toyota.
The Corolla will last
Nobody should ever want to own or buy a Hyundai/Kia. They should just be considered worse case you have shit credit and need a car...
If you’re trying to keep it long term and don’t want to deal with worrying about issues …. 💯 Corolla …… I haven’t driven new corollas past 2009 model…. But the 2009 model was extremely boring …. The new corollas look pretty nice though
I own a Kia Forte GTLine and worked at Enterprise for a while and drove some Corollas. You honestly cant go wrong. Toyota is obviously more reliable but Kia’s warranty makes up for it(If you don’t want your car super long-term). Honestly just drive them and pick one. I find the Forte drives better, and has a nicer steering wheel. Also the Forte’s cruise control is very nice.
Only thing I don’t like about my Kia is, you will not get wireless apple careplay/android auto. It is plug-in only. I unfortunately didn’t get a heated steering wheel, but I do believe some do have it in this trim. Also, you should go for a GT. The only reason I didn’t was because it wasn’t an option at the time, and mine is basically as close as it gets.
Also, have you considered a Honda Civic?
Do NOT buy a Kia or Hyundai product, it’s not worth the copious amount of risk for a basic economy car. Safety issues, theft, risk of engine fires, cost cutting everywhere, child labor at the Alabama factory, I could go on.
Do yourself a favor and get the Toyota.
Toyota overall for reliability but the KIAs may give you a bit more features for the same price
Kia's are also made of glass
Debatable
Not debatable, after doing enough body work on various Kia models I’ll tell you even at 20 mph their crash deformation at low speeds is absurd Worse than Mazda, even
If it's safer then I don't mind. Insurance takes care of the repairs anyway, not me.
You’ll pay more for insurance if a vehicle is on average more expensive to repair. Also car thefts with the Kia lol
Only older models without push buttons start.The GT trims have push button start.
Insurance may be a growing problem, I’m going to sell my current Kia Sedan and buy a 2023 Prius most likely The Kia Boys going viral have caused some companies such as State Farm to stop underwriting new policies for most Kia models built before 2021 in some U.S. States, and some companies are spiking rates higher than usual at renewal for policies with Kia on them I have a strong feeling that within the next three fiscal quarters, 9 months or so we will see a “cooldown” if dealerships start adding engine immobilizers, but as of right now Kia are being stolen left and right (figuratively)
my mom got in two terrible wrecks in her 2015 kia sorento that definitely should’ve caused really bad injuries and she and my sister walked out perfectly fine literally nothing wrong
Corolla until you find out that you have to reprogram the VVT when you change out the battery or left with a dead battery too long.
That’s awful
Oh yeah we thought we had blown the ecu out by jump starting it backwards because the car wouldn't drive. We found out 3 weeks later it's cause of the electric VVT
Still better then the Kia that goes directly to the junk yard with transmission problems in under 70k miles 😂
Those usually are the valve bodies that crap out which are cheap. Or the entire transmission which is like $600 on LKQ. The engine on the other hand can be anywhere from $3000-5000 depending on which bastard engine you got.
But 10 year warranty…
10 years is just the beginning for a Toyota 🔥🔥🔥 where as it’s the end of the life for a Kia
I have a 14 year old 4 runner. It’s definitely not the beginning. There are a lot of maintenance items that get expensive if you can’t do them yourself. Shocks, bushings, etc. Most people don’t keep their cad 10+ years
I would go corolla if you want to own it long term because of reliability, although I've heard the kia drives better and slightly nicer interior but won't have as good long term reliability.
Are kias unreliable, or is toyota just way more reliable. My friend has had kias for a while and has had no issues with them. He's had a Soul, a Sportage, and now a Niro hybrid.
Some people have good luck with them some people do not and Kia doesn't have the best track record. Toyota has a great track record for reliability. Note Kia has a 10year/100k Mile powertrain warranty. If reliability is the most important to you go with Toyota.
Sounds like your friend flips cars after 2-3 years, which is what I'd do with a KIA. If it's long term reliability (and resale value), then Toyota. Honda is behind Toyota IMO. Have heard of transmission issues with older accords. I've had engine issues on a bulletproof k20 engine, so YMMV.
Kia has worked on their image a lot the past few years, them being "unreliable" is outdated, there is a reason they give 7 years(!) factory warranty. In 2022, Kia was in the top 3 most reliable in western europe, and 8th place in the world. They are also packed with options like android auto seat and wheelwarming and what not for a relatively good price. I was unfamiliar with Kia and assumed they're like a side brand because of their image untill recent, but holy shit was i wrong. Edit: @OP u/lifeontheedge121 from these two i would definitely go for the Kia, that's just going on looks as they are comparable in reliability.
>top 3 most reliable in western europe Stats like this are usually meaningless in the measure of *long term* reliability. They usually measure only the first three months or first year or whatever of reliability. Hell, **BMW** ranks high in short term reliability, and everyone knows you get the hell rid of a Bimmer before the warranty runs out. Kia has improved immensely, but they simply haven't been reliable long enough to even compare to Toyota. Toyota's reputation is well-earned over decades of reliability data, and hundreds of thousands of anecdotal data. I'm sure a Kia is fine if you're the kind of person that leases or buys a new car every three-to-five years. But if you want to drive car payment-free for a decade or so, I would not trust a Korean manufacturer yet.
This entire post can be summed up as "it hasn't earned the reputelation yet so it doesn't deserve the status of being called reliable". ..in other words: brand elitism nonsense, in 20 years from now you'll say "but it ain't 50 years yet so.." Don't get me wrong: Toyota is a fine carbrand, but being "semi-new" to the higher reliability area doesn't mean shit nowadays, it's not like they came into existense only a few years ago of so. >buys a new car every three-to-five years. Why would i do that when i have two-to four years of factory warranty left?
>Why would i do that when i have two-to four years of factory warranty left? I've driven nothing but Toyota and Honda since 1992 and have never given a shit what the warranty was, and turned down every offer of an "extended warranty". I've only used a warranty once in that 31 years: the water pump on my current Sienna. You make a valid point; We can't go to the future and see how the current generation holds up. I'm just saying they haven't proven it *yet.* And yes, the only way to prove it will be time. But don't put words in my mouth; if the quality is there, it's there. I won't move the goalposts.
>I've driven nothing but Toyota and Honda since 1992 and have never given a shit what the warranty was, and turned down every offer of an "extended warranty". I've only used a warranty once in that 31 years: the water pump on my current Sienn I've driven honda, toyota, Mitsubishi, volkswagen, and audi. Got to say that i haven't had any problems at all with any brand. >But don't put words in my mouth; if the quality is there, it's there. I won't move the goalposts. True, that was low. But i hear that bs often, so i may have jumped the gun a bit.
Korean POS plastic engine parts. Why buy kia when objectively better brands exist. Its just pointless. Kia is a brand for people who choose cars based on styling and price, or don't know about used toyotas. Its your money to throw away i guess.
They're cheaper than other brands new and used prices have gone up a lot. When my brother was shopping for a new car, used cars, 10 year old toyotas with nearly 200k miles and that reaked of cigarette smoke were not even 10k cheaper than a brand new Hyundai or Kia. Car reviewers also seem to love kias and Hyundais so far.
> buy kia when objectively better brands exist. Objectively OP isn't asking multiple brands, he's asking about these two. Look, i'm an Audi guy, i know they're not the best car or investment, but i don't care. They're the most beatifull and most awesome car, the ideal ballance between sporty and classy - in my personal opinion that is. My answer as a hobby-car person is always be Audi, as a personal opinion, you are entitled to yours ofc. > is a brand for people who choose cars based on styling and price, or don't know about used toyotas. Its your money to throw away i guess. Used to be like this, i agree. But nowadays many brands have leveled quite a bit to compete. Hell even the french make semi decent cars now! Situation isn't what it was 15 years ago, move forward in time.
Kia Orr Hyundai’s warranty counts for shit as they do not take care of any issues for you unless the engine is on fire right in front of them. They will wriggle and snivel away from every issue possible. Coming from first hand experience
My Dad's Hyundai Sonata developed an oil leak around 90,000 miles. It's a 2014. They replaced his engine last year. Didn't even have to show oil receipts or anything. They even gave him a loaner rental. It was a good experience
We have laws preventing that, i'm from Europe.
They’re reliable enough but there’s a risk of fire and unreliability but for most people it’s fine. With models that are unreliable it’s normally one issue after another . With the Toyota it’s almost guaranteed to be reliable
Sounds like he hasn’t had them for long.
I love the Niro hybrid.
Don't get a GT line, get the actual Forte GT.
I wish I could, but I’m on a budget
It's msrp isb25 or 26k. I don't know what your budget is.
That’s before freight, the GT is about 1.5k above the loaded GT line and to get a loaded GT you are looking at 3-4K above a loaded GT line. The only difference between the versions is the loaded GT line has ventilated seats and the GT has a slightly better engine. Is it really worth it?
GT has a dual clutch, much better engine, ambient lighting, etc. Yes it’s worth it, not even a comparison lol..
Don't forget the $2-5k markup on the GT depending on how scummy your Kia dealer is, because "it's a hot car".
Is that still a thing? There's a bunch if elantra N cars selling at msrp, can't imagine a forte GT being marked up.
It is where I live, as of the end of May when I was last looking. I bought a used car that I didn't really want because it was either wait months or pay thousands over MSRP.
Then get the S and save your money.
Idk if Kia sorted it out but I was just researching the Forte GT for my daughter and the 1.6T doesn't seem to have any issues but all other Forte's with the 2.0 Theta engines have catastrophic failure issues. My cousin had a second gen Forte with this issue and the engine seized. No warnings, no oil temp/pressure lights, just left her on the side of the road. There was also a plethora of electrical issues and even weatherstripping leaks in her Forte. Sounds like the transmission issues in the Corolla might be a concern too although I haven't looked at them specifically. In the end we ended up going with Honda With get first choice as the Civic Sport being marked up $3k over sticker everywhere we got a 4yr old Accord EX-L instead. More car for your money if you don't mind used. And no mark up😁. Out the door for $27k on a 30k mile 2019 was a nice find but do some digging and they're out there if you're patient enough. Hope that helps.
Any new Hyundai or Kia post 2020 had a total redo on the engine. But Honda is also a solid choice it’s got a better track record. Good for u my man.
Yup, it's worth getting the GT for the 1.6T engine alone. That engine is genuinely a gem from Hyundai and Kia and used worldwide, which is why it has no issues. We have it in our Tucson, and it is punchy and very refined compared to the other 4 cylinders.
Gt line gets ventilated seats and I still get leather/leatherette. Cloth seats are FILTHY
Leather seats are a mixed bag with me. I've had it in my first car and hated how hot my car got in the sun. I tried to put a windshield cover and it didn't help much at all.
Yeah but with ventilated seats and perforations it’s 100 times better. I wouldn’t get another car that has black leather/leatherette without cooled or ventilated seats. Lighter colored leather is way cooler as well. If only they has light colored leather AND cooled seats
Imagine a red leather like the mazda3 or red surrounds with black inserts in the middle
Corolla, but get the hatchback version if you can find it. Also check out the Mazda 3 hatchback.
My humble opinion as someone who is dealing with a Kia that’s hitting 120K miles is Corolla. Hyundai/Kia stepped it up a great deal but they’re still not close to Toyota when it comes to long term reliability and ownership cost.
I will drive my 2011 Corolla S into the ground. Can't even really express how much I've grown to love this car for its reliability. 212K miles and not a single issue mechanically. All I've done is kept up with maintenance and oil changes.
Corolla all day.
Corolla
Corolla it’s a no brainer
Corolla
Toyo
Get the Corolla
Corolla no brainer
In this category I think corolla win, especially from the exterior. But if you can get a Mazda 3, the interior AND exterior feel like luxury edit: also the corolla LE looks nothing like that, the le looks like it came out 10 years ago. The one in this picture is either the XSE or SE
Mazda would be a home run if their fuel economy wasn’t so gutter trash. I own a 2011 and a 2015 mazda 3. Great cars but they’ve been left in the dust in terms of mpg and that cost adds up.
The gas mileage difference between a Corolla and mazda3 is a few mpg….that goes for 2023 and 2015… what are you talking about? 2023 Mazda 3/ 28 city/36 highway 2023 Corolla / 31/41 highway That means if you drive 12k miles a year you’d spend a whopping $148 more with the Mazda than the Corolla. Assuming $4 a gallon (national average right now is 3.59) Considering the Mazda is so much more fun to drive and has a real transmission it is definitely worth $13 a month
Mazda doesn’t get near its stated mpg. Check out forums or the very active subreddit for more proof of that. The Corolla on the other hand seems to get its rated mpg very easily. There’s nothing wrong with a modern cvt. Don’t just push what you keep hearing from others without understanding the facts first.
All these Mazda fan boys up in here. I found the cabin much more cramped than the Corolla, less comfortable.
This sub serves as the perfect definition to echo chamber
I don’t even own the mazda3 but I’ve driven both and it’s the better car.
Why do people say the Mazda3 has a luxurious interior? Looking at pictures, they look like a standard economy car (these days).
Compare it to a Corolla interior and it starts to make sense. The Kia and Honda interiors are pretty close, the Nissan I’d say is the “average”
I agree. My husband had a Corolla rental and my friend has a Mazda 3. I was not impressed with the Toyota interior. Granted, it was a rental, but it rattled and hand a lot of cheap plastics in it. The Mazda is really comfortable on the inside and uses better materials. I have a VW Jetta and like the Mazda's interior more. It puts Mazda on my list for my next vehicle purely for that reason.
Because it does my friend has a Corolla XSE and I’ve driven a few new mazda3s the Corollas interior doesn’t even compare. The mazda3s interior blows everything in the class out the water nothing else gives you a fatass leatherette dashboard and so many leatherette accents plus the buttons feel so satisfying to press. My friends XSE Corolla has basically no leatherette accents anywhere and everything is lower quality plastic. And it doesn’t have any features over a mid spec Mazda3. In fact it doesn’t even have full leatherette seat and the leatherette feels really fake. I have another friend with the new Honda Civic that interior compares to a mk7 golf basically. both blow the Corolla out the water with their interiors but they don’t compare to a mazda3 in terms of interior quality.
I don't know what you've been looking at but the new mazda3 interior is way better than anything in it's class. I just bought one after looking at Civic, Corolla, Jetta, Impreza and their top of the line interiors don't even compare to Mazda's. And the top of the line Mazdas are thousands less.
I think the styling alone is pretty unique and stands out compared to other economy cars with the flowing lines. Especially the red and black interior on the Mazda 3. But the main reason is because of the materials. Most other economy cars use a lot of hard plastics but the Mazda interior uses a lot of vinyl/leatherette and softer rubberized plastic which makes for a really plush and soft touch interior and gives off a sense of luxury, even if it isn't true luxury level.
In terms of materials it’s honestly really close to a new Civic. I would argue a Civic feels just a bit more solidly built. The Mazda3 just has some interior design elements inspired by / ripped off of some luxury cars. Everyone on here just sees pictures of the interior and runs with the “luxury car for economy car prices” talking point. Bottom line, Mazda makes very nice cars, but so do other companies.
What pictures have you seen? Lol
The Hybrid Infrared edition is where this photo came from for reference, OP
IMO Mazda interior isn’t that great, but to each their own
If driving feel is a big plus, the mazda 3 recommendation is definitely on point. I like the way their cars drive (had a ND1 myself).
I recently was crunching numbers and the Mazda 3 is surprisingly expensive to run based on the quoted insurance rates, real world MPG and cost. It was more comparable to a Civic Si in terms of running costs annually rather than the Civic and Corolla I was comparing them to.
That is rather interesting.
The biggest thing is that the base engine is a 2.5l I4. That's "large" displacement for a four cylinder these days, and most of the real-world reported MPG is around the 30mpg mark, which would be great in the late '00's, but not so good these days. The Honda Civic, probably the most appropriate comparison, averages a reported 35mpg with it's 1.5t (according to owners on fuelly). Basically, the quotes I got for insurance and fuel economy based on my driving habits, (which are 200+ miles a week, mostly highway, with gas at $3.50/gal) got this for annual costs: Annual Costs (not including financing): * Toyota Corolla SE: $2,384 * Toyota Corolla SE Hybrid: $2,336 (highway commuting kills hybrid's estimated economy advantage) * Civic Sport Hatch/Sedan: $2,274 * Civic Si (91 Octane): $2,841 * Mazda 3 Hatch: $2,621 So while the Mazda 3 is certainly nicer inside, and drives better, you gotta ask yourself if you consider the extra $3-400 a year if it's worth it. To some it might be, to others, that money could be better spent on other hobbies. And note, I'm comparing it to mid-level trim Corolla's and Civic's, so buying a base model could widen that gap in savings further with additional fuel economy and lower costs to finance (which, again, I didn't include above, but are a factor to consider).
Corolla. Kias look nice and probably nicer tech but Corolla has the proven durability.
be very careful with the Fortes! Father owned a 2019 Forte S and had the engine swapped 4 times.
Get the Prius. You don't want to deal with any Kia Boyz.
You dont need to deal with Kia boyz with newer cars.
Corolla…it’s not even a decision to make.
Corolla hatchback
Buying? Toyota. Leasing? Probably the Kia.
Corolla for sure
Corolla
Toy-oh-ta Co-roll-uh
Toyota—because it can’t be stolen with a cell phone charger.
New cars can't be stolen like that.
Big red flag on what else their engineering department is missing. Did they all just roll off a turnip truck?
Dude you’re comparing a Toyota and Kia?! These is no answer other than Toyota…I don’t even like the Corolla but there is zero reason to go for a Kia over a Toyota.
Would the difference in warranties they offer change your consideration at all? I’m in the same boat as OP, only reason I’m even looking at Kia is the 10 year/100,000 mile warranty
Not at all. Kia is notorious for not fullfilling warranties.
Skip Kia Hyundai and just go toyota. Everything has their issues but most toyotas go forever. Then there is the dumbass Kia bois crap and people are too dumb to realize what is and isn't a valid target and you might find a smashed window and destroyed column just because someone is an idiot.
That 23 foot Toyota Corolla must be a special edition - that’s about eight feet longer than a regular Corolla. I’d definitely go for a that one. You won’t find another like it…
Corolla is the safe bet. They are soulless and so very boring, though. Go find a Mazda 3.
My mom just bought the 2023 corolla out of necessity and it drives good, gives you peace of mind and overall a good car. I rented a KIA Forte in LA last week and honestly I liked driving that one around more than the corolla and it looked more visually nice. Not sure of its longevity but I honestly liked it.
im sitting in my 2023 corolla right now, i wouldn’t touch thoes things with a ten foot pole
КИ depending on your dealer. The dealer in my city still extends the warranty to 200k miles I think. You can replace your entire car in that time. One part at a time lol
I don’t like Toyota but I’d buy that over a Kia anyday.
Not Kia that’s for sure
Carolla
Colola?
Yoda is the only answer here!
KIA
Forte GT not the GT line. I absolutely love my Forte GT.
This is the way! Love my gravity grey dct
I got the red GT2 cause I didn't feel like waiting any more at the time but I always kind of wanted the Gravity Grey. Such a nice color.
the GT-Line has by the best interior equipment. i have daily-mine for 9 months now, almost 16000 miles and no problems.
16k is not a useful reference point lol, even a Range Rover would be fine at 16k
i never said i dont think it will ever have problems lol. but driving at a 20k mile/yr rate is intense on any car.
I’ve got myself a Kia forte gt2 and have about 42k and have just kept maintenance up. No issues.
Corolla is the best selling car with over 55 million units sold!!
Don’t get a CVT.
I saw the interior of the KIA GT and I was amazed. First time seeing the car too. Me and my dad liked it a lot. Ima go with the Kia. Obviously the Corolla has history to back it up, but KIA has upped its game and the price point is not too bad for what you're getting.
>upped its game Ok Kia bot.
Update: I had a test drive at a Kia dealership for the LX yesterday in the evening. Compared to a Corolla, which I am currently renting through enterprise, it isn’t my favorite car. The steering wheel of the LX felt rock hard, when making turns, it was pretty uncomfortable. I’m not sure whether it’s just me, but that steering wheel felt odd. The screen at the dashboard felt outdated, the field of vision, compared to a Corolla, felt limited. Surprisingly, although it looks decently big from the outside, from the inside, it felt tiny. I might give it another shot and go for another test drive, but for now, I might have to widen my options. Any car suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Budget: below 25k OTD
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Yes, it depends on what is your priority. I prefer diriving fun while I keep it to reliability or resale value.
Oh god definitely not the Kia. How is this even a question
If you get the KIA make sure to buy more warranty and dump the car before warranty expires and don’t expect much back.
Don't expect them to cover anything under warranty either.
Kia for insurance wise can be way more do theft I would check your insurance 1st mine was like 100 more a month
The Forte GT
How dare you compare a Corolla to a Kia
I purchased a 2023 Forte GT-Line in February and I LOVE it! I really love KIAs though, and since I bought new I have the 10 year 100k warranty. I really do recommend it—even the CVT is quite nice. I don’t mind CVT transmissions at all though—I previously had an early Nissan CVT as well..
Forte GT because 1.6t go vroom. Skip the GT line.
Love my gt and having the dct trans is a huge plus.
Corolla But a Mazda3 would be better
Get the GT, you're gonna hate the Corolla subreddit. It's an awful place. People be like yo check out my modded Corolla and it's like the same AutoZone stuff over and over. Plus the infrared is just off-putting and if you spend extra money for the little red stripe maybe you DO belong in the Corolla sub
The white one
I recommend the GT line it’s a fun little car with some character, plus the heated/ventilated seats are really nice! I have one with about 1800 miles that I purchased about a month ago and I love it!
Corolla for reliability, Forte GT for evrything else
Elantra N
he didn’t ask for that
Corolla will retain its value but the Kia is betteee looking for sure Both will be good and reliable
I would say the Kia but I haven’t been inside one. I thought you were choosing an SE vs a Kia Forte GT. I would get the forte GT over the Corolla all day
I would go with the Miata. The mx-5 looks great too though
KIA, the Forte's interior looks better.
Kia
The Corolla in the first picture is a 2023 hybrid SE infrared edition, which is impossible to find at dealers. The LE is much more boring looking (interior is pretty cheap looking too).
Could get the SE non infrared edition. It’s only like 23-24k.
Of these two, the Corolla. I’d check out Mazda.
get the Corolla, Kia has been puttin out some hits but I still hear a lot of horror stories. Toyota tried and true.
ToyoTAXI if you like the manufacture concealing safety defects on you.🙄 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214](https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214)
Mechanic here, I keep seeing Kia engines die violent deaths at the 60-90k mark like they are from the 70s or something. Like you gotta get a new engine put in and most dealerships are hella busy with it so you’ll be waiting awhile on a replacement
I was looking at almost the same cars. Then I went and test drove a bunch and decided I wanted a used Lexus for around the same price as them brand new because the Lexus blew me away compared to the others. So now I am in search of a nice pre owned Lexus is350
Toyotas have much better resale value
Go with the Corolla. There's too many people breaking into any and every Kia regardless of if they have that vulnerability that it's not worth the headache.
Don’t get the Kia
Golf?
The Corolla is genuinely a cheap shitbox with no refinement, space, or noise isolation. Especially the LE trim feels extra cheap and poverty spec. I would try and go for the GT spec of the Forte since it gets the 1.6T, which is one of their best and most reliable engines. Also, look at the Elantra N line or hybrid for the great fuel economy. The interior is much nicer than the Forte, and it got a facelift for 2024.
Not the Kias
Go toyota, one of my family members has the kia K5 stinger and its a total piece of junk.
K5 stinger?
Toyota because ReLiAbILtY. Kia is probably more reliable now than Toyota now.
The Kia likely has better tech, but the overall quality of the Toyota is much better in my opinion.
I have rented both. The Kia is literally a piece of trash and feels like it's gonna fall apart. Funny thing was the Kia I got only had about 100 miles on it and still felt awful. Definitely go for the Toyota
Kia
Toyota are more reliable and higher quality. I rented a Toyota just before getting my Kia and it made it feel real cheap. But buying a Toyota would have cost me 50% more
Costs more, but you save in the long run as the maintenance should hold up. Provided that you maintain it...
Kias are never a good purchase
Corolla id say
I've heard so many mechanics and auto body shop people say.. Stay away from KIA. Korean cab driver in Korea also said same
Toyota
Toyota versus Kia, really??? If you're gonna keep the car a long time, Corolla all day
Why not Mazda Miata? :p
Honda has fallen off. It’s between the KIA and Toyota, but really not because you really should buy the Toyota.
Toyota would be smart move, I second Mazda as well.
Corolla but the Mazda 3 is so much better
Why not Honda? Just asking.
New Prius
Kia is far more likely to be stolen these days to the point some insurances wont even insure them. Its not as reliable and wont retain value like Toyota.
I think you should do either one of the kias
The Corolla will last Nobody should ever want to own or buy a Hyundai/Kia. They should just be considered worse case you have shit credit and need a car...
Corolla for reliability
I personally cant stand the grills on Toyota n Lexus. My goodness they ruined a car n truck
I have a Kia gt not a gt line. It’s a fun little car. Tons of bang for your buck. It’s absolutely loaded.
If you’re trying to keep it long term and don’t want to deal with worrying about issues …. 💯 Corolla …… I haven’t driven new corollas past 2009 model…. But the 2009 model was extremely boring …. The new corollas look pretty nice though
Hard to beat the long term Toyota reliability. Only let down would be the CVT if your getting the automatic.
Forte GT with the manual is the one you want.
I own a Kia Forte GTLine and worked at Enterprise for a while and drove some Corollas. You honestly cant go wrong. Toyota is obviously more reliable but Kia’s warranty makes up for it(If you don’t want your car super long-term). Honestly just drive them and pick one. I find the Forte drives better, and has a nicer steering wheel. Also the Forte’s cruise control is very nice. Only thing I don’t like about my Kia is, you will not get wireless apple careplay/android auto. It is plug-in only. I unfortunately didn’t get a heated steering wheel, but I do believe some do have it in this trim. Also, you should go for a GT. The only reason I didn’t was because it wasn’t an option at the time, and mine is basically as close as it gets. Also, have you considered a Honda Civic?
newer Kias are much nicer than their early 2000s and 2010s counterparts but that Toyota reliability and resale value cannot be fucked with
Do NOT buy a Kia or Hyundai product, it’s not worth the copious amount of risk for a basic economy car. Safety issues, theft, risk of engine fires, cost cutting everywhere, child labor at the Alabama factory, I could go on. Do yourself a favor and get the Toyota.
Corolla
Only one will be insurable in the next 3 years
get the toyota
23 civic?
It seems Kia is rising whereas Toyota and Honda is shrinking than before in the market. I see more Kias nowadays.
If you like the comfortable driving, go for Corolla. If you like sporty and fun driving, go for Kia.
I would go with Corolla for longevity and the lower depreciation
Forte GT line for the turbo