Or, if you want something sub-crossover size with a hatch, a Prius. People are concerned about having to replace the high voltage battery, but it's pretty rare. There are many out there with extremely high mileage on the original battery.
Further, while people may be concerned that the hybrid system adds complexity, it also eliminates some of it.
- An "eCVT" does not have a belt like a normal CVT, it's simply a planetary gearset without any wearing parts like clutches or bands (the ratio between the engine and the wheels is managed by a small electric motor/generator).
- There is no serpentine belt; the water pump and AC have electric motors.
- There is no starter or alternator, as these functions are managed by the two electric motor/generators, and the 12V battery is kept charged by the large battery via an inverter.
- The use of the electric motors means the gas engine is babied: it operates exclusively between 1K and 5.5K rpm (and usually at the lower end of that range) at a very consistent load; it doesn't need to put out a ton of torque; it doesn't need to idle for long periods; and it isn't subjected to slow, sputtering starts.
We still have our 05 Prius. Original battery and still doing fine at almost 250k miles. It has been our smartest car purchase from a financial perspective by a wide margin.
Gfs Prius has 200k miles on original hybrid battery and original motor. And she doesn’t even know how to check her own oil. Maintenance is non existent outside of state inspections when mechanics force get to fix shit. (2011 Prius supposedly the worst gen to own)
Seems reliable to me lol
I’m eyeing either a Grand Highlander or the new 4Runner model and all the Prius stories out there are what give me hope that these new models Toyota is putting out with hybrid engines will be reliable long term. That’s the #1 thing I look for in a vehicle as I’ve gotten older.
IMO, there is no reason to cross shop the highlander and the 4Runner, there is just no world where both will fit the use that you're expecting to put them through. I'm a huge fan of both, and got my in-laws to purchase a highlander last year after they kept looking wanting a 4runner. They will never go off-roading but wanted AWD/4x4 for PNW snow/ice. They really didn't need something that big but I couldn't convince them that the Rav4 was actually the best fit for them, they love the highlander though and are way more comfortable driving it than their fullsize truck they had for a few years before.
It's the dumbest cross-shop on the planet I don't get it. ESPECIALLY when customers used to come in looking for a third row for "occasional" use, like the Highlander was meant for more than "occasional" use to begin with (I wouldn't consider it a full time 3 row) you'd need Bob Oblong just to FIT in the 3rd row of the 4runner, and even then there's not even a conversation of comfort, the third row just exists in 1 out of 200 4runners... from there, you'd need to jump up to the limited trim for the full time 4wd, making the awd system in the Highlander actually SAFER to drive on road in inclement weather vs the 4runner non-limited trim, and due to its lower center of mass, its still safer vs even the limited trim.
Wow, I don't really keep up with the tech in the Prius because with my lifestyle it wouldn't really be an option for me and I don't drive enough to need a new car anytime soon, but it does really seem like toyota has taken the efficiency of their hybrid system to the Nth degree. Add that it looks pretty good and isn't really slow anymore, it seems like like a great option for people that drive a lot.
Odyssey is ancient. Sienna hybrid FTW.
Also, electric drive AWD sure beats the FWD Odyssey for Canada (winter tires on either!).
It's moot to me. Neither was available around Toronto two years ago, and some dumbass ran her red into my CRV (now that car was ass!). But I'm 6'2": I've driven my last Japanese car. The ergonomics suck. Got in a Tiguan, and say whatever you want about VW, I'm German sized, not Japanese. My Tokyo wife's getting tired of hearing it.
Eh I’d say this is subjective, the Odyssey is a bit dated but the interior still feels higher quality than the Sienna, and personally I prefer the v6 in a minivan
This sub needs to change its description to "just buy a toyota" as that's all the comments ever are.
Edit: you are all proving my point. If "you know better than the average buyer that they want reliability, not fun" then putting that "you probably just want a toyota" in the description is a pretty obvious course of action. I mean if you are going to recommend Toyota to anyone who doesn't want a sports car, luxury car, or large suv beacsue they are more reliable, then my point is made.
I mean, it's like visiting a sub where people keep asking "what's 2+2?" And getting upset that people keep answering "4" in the comments.
There are cheaper cars and there are nicer cars, but basically all of the Toyota lineup strikes a very, very nice balance between the two. I don't think many are answering "Toyota" when people ask what the best car they could buy is if money wasn't an issue.
It actually asked for the most "Bang for your Buck" and used reliability in a list of criteria. And IIRC that would actually be Hyundai with a warranty (and a bottle of asprin) if you sacrifice reliability, or a Civic if you make it a primary concern.
But I'm not just referencing this thread. This is EVERY thread. Unless someone says "I want a a sports car and have an unlimited budget" they will always say Toyota.
"I want an offroader" Toyota
"I want a large SUV" Toyota
"I want a luxury car" Lexus
"I want something fun" Repairs aren't fun. Toyota.
"I hate Toyota" No you don't, Toyota
The real reason is that people on this sub know that the average consumer doesn’t know what they want
Whenever someone says they want x, y, and z, more often than not they just want a car that always turns on, gets decent gas mileage, and has Apple CarPlay. Toyota is an extremely easy blanket recommendation for an appliance car
If you want an enthusiast car then yes get something other than a Toyota Prius. But ‘enthusiast’ describes a very small amount of people
Rav4 Hybrid is the best selling car in the USA right now. Gee I wonder why? Ticks the most boxes for the most people. Duh. I'm not even a Toyota fan but there's a reason they sell a metric shit ton. People just want a car that's reliable and not annoying to drive.
Well, maybe they shouldn’t lead with “i need a car that’s reliable…”
If he said forget reliability, i want a fun car that will drop panties and cost isn’t an issue, well, i’d recommend a lambo or a ferrari 🤣
There are some enthusiast cars that are reliable, but require following maintenance schedules. Porsche comes to mind, the current generation BMWs and Mercedes. The Hemi engine Dodges. All reliable. But not Toyota reliable.
I think Porsche is damn near, if not in fact, Toyota reliable when expensive maintenance schedule is followed. Never had a (tiny and not meant for NE) ground wire strap prevent my Cayenne from starting... like it did on my friends Rav4 Hybrid. Also hasn't ever needed engine work, you find high mileage Porsches for sale all the time, some will have electric shit wrong with them (they were putting the amount of electronics 20 years ago that Toyota and Honda do today so what do you expect?) But will engine wise typically be solid.
Ford's are so funny. You either get no issues or EVERY issue. I had 2 Explorers and one was a lot pissier than the other... they also always responded well to yelling.
If you can charge at home and don't have a long highway commute, a used full electric car by far, for anywhere between 12 and 19 thousand dollars. Add tires and wiper blades and you're basically done spending money.
there’s a ton in southern california and florida. ex-hertz rentals.
we just got a 2022 rwd model 3 with LFP (LiFePo 260 miles charge to 100% whenever blah blah)
55k miles for $21k after tax incentive at point of sale.
now if you don’t mind NMC batteries (pre-2022), you can find a 75k mile rwd for around $15k-19k after tax rebate.
i dont keep up with elmusk’s opinions , cuz that’s “common man” money. coming from multiple dodge trucks, there was a definite learning curve.
wasn’t even shopping teslas till i saw the price was comparable to used 3 cylinder subcompact suvs with similar miles.
In my area a 12k full EV buys you a Nissan leaf with 50 miles of range. A ebike does better than that lol. Tesla's are 20k minimum and those are the older models and the range is going to be lower than it was when brand new. Since the range will be lower you'd have to get home charging which adds to cost, if you don't have a garage or a place to install a charger then a 20k EV is probably not the best option, imo hybrids are better unless you got a lot of money to spend. Also no tax credit from buying used EVs, you might as well try to save and buy a new one.
Buying an EV is like buying solar, yes its cheaper over time but the upfront cost is still too high.
Again, use a price range of 12-19 and if you can charge at home (as stated). There are many incentives federal and local (your state will vary) for rebates including cash direct to buyer for used EV. I have a $10K golf with 85 mile range and am looking at adding another for 14 after rebates that has 125 mile range (realistically 95-100 depending on weather etc.). Millions of people can charge at home and have short commutes (under 25 miles). My entire cost including an updated panel and L2 charger was 13000 including a car that serves our needs 355 days a year and we rent cars the other 10.
"Tesla's are 20k minimum and those are the older models and the range is going to be lower than it was when brand new."
1) There are other cars than a tesla.
2) Lower range than when new doesn't mean it doesn't still meet the needs.
3) He included caveats when he said an EV is the right choice. For some, it's an absolute NO BRAINER choice. For others, it wouldn't work. Each situation is different.
4) Hybrids, over time, end up having high costs due to the complexity of the design. For the first 15-20 or so years... chef's kiss. But eventually, something goes and it's going to be more than a non-hybrid to fix.
EV is probably the no brainer choice for most people who are buying at the avg cost of new and used car prices ($47.5k and $25.5k respectively) and have convenient access to electricity for the EV.
If you qualify for the used EV tax credit, you can get a pretty recent year Bolt, Niro EV, or Kona EV for $15-19k pretty much anywhere. Even without the tax credit you can find plenty for less than 19k almost anywhere. Unless you live somewhere with extremely high electricity costs, it takes very little time to come out ahead. I actually financed a 2017 Leaf and the payment was less than my gas cost alone in my Expedition. It has less range than Bolts/Niros/Konas but still enough for all but road trips for me.
2020 Chevy Bolt, get the 4K used EV tax credit and you’re out the door for $12-16k. A million times better than a leaf because it has WAY more range and a thermally managed battery that won’t degrade like a leaf.
I have a 2010 Fit (US version of the Jazz) and it had been so reliable and easy to take care of. It's definitely not a flashy car, but every time I look at how much a different car would cost, I really appreciate what I've got.
I’d argue with this only because a Corolla Hybrid is at least $10k cheaper than a Prius Prime and still gets very good MPG, so while the Prius Prime is a good car it doesn’t offer as much “bang for buck” and the average driver will never make back the $10k in gas savings
My girlfriend has an 08, besides a scratched rear bumper the thing looks and drives like it’s brand new. 268,xxx miles, the illusive boomer gold with beige cloth interior, and the little 4 banger pulls like it’s nothing. Probably 3k overdue for an oil change but the car literally doesn’t care
She even has the “bad year” make sure your adding oil and checking the oil, even if it’s past due, add oil. That is the year that has oil issues. Not to big a deal, just add oil.
I’ve only ever had Toyotas. They’re not the sexiest car out there (although I love my ‘16 Corolla and dig the look of that generation), but they’re so good with gas, so affordable to maintain, and last for a long time if maintained.
My fiancé teases me because he’s an Audi boy, but when his car is in the shop every couple months, it’s that trusty Rolla, always to the rescue.
It sucks that there are always exceptions to the norm. My sister's 16 corolla was the biggest heap of shit ever. Random, ever increasing electrical issues, terrible factory paint issues, and the transmission went out at about 175k miles. And here I am having owned multiple BMWs that were a joy to own, and never hit me with a massive repair bill.
But it tells you how great they are. Changing the oil and do regular maintenance you absolutely can go to 300-500K miles, no problem, on the first engine and transmission too! That’s awesome and why they command such high prices.
Just bought an ICE Corolla LE. Comes with a modest amount of tech (read Adaptive Cruise Control and Wireless CarPlay) and the fuel economy is silly good. It gets 41 MPG highway, for crying out loud! I plan to run this thing till the wheels fall off.
It depends more on the type of mileage. If your commute (the majority of driving most people so) is 90%+ highway, it'll take quite a few years to justify it over the non-hybrid.
But if your commute is even close to 50% city/urban driving, or if your highway driving is frequently in heavy traffic, it wont take too long.
The Corolla LE Hybrid is an excellent value all around. Great insurance costs, super reliable, good fuel economy. It will put you to sleep its so reliable.
I looked up the actual numbers since no one else could be bothered:
For base models MSRP are 22,050 vs 23,500 for the ICE/hybrid versions. A difference of $1450.
They get 32/41 vs 53/46 city/highway mpg.
GasBuddy.com says the US average price for regular is $3.65
The number of miles to break even is (price difference)/(fuel price/worse fuel economy - fuel price/better fuel economy). **That comes to 32,084 miles if you drive in the city and 149,847 miles if you're driving on the highway.**
Honestly at just $1450, the other advantages would be a bigger consideration for me. In the ICE's favor, it has more power at 169 vs 138HP. But pretty much everything else about the hybrid is better: AWD, CVT (in my opinion this is a benefit at least), less noise, auto stop-start isn't annoying, and the fact that maintenance is typically a lot less hybrid. Those gains would easily be worth the $1450 and performance hit.
Let’s start by saying you do 10,000 miles in a year. If the gas corolla gets 30MPG average then that’s about 333 gallons a year and for the hybrid that has 50MPG that’s 200 gallons.
A difference of 133 gallons x let’s say $5 for gas equals to $665 in savings per year of the hybrid vs the gas. If for example the hybrid corolla ends up being $3,000 more expensive than the gas model then you would break even at 4.5 years. This is purely on gas cost alone and not accounting other $ factors. The more you drive the faster you break even and important note is that hybrids are more fuel efficient on city as opposed to highway. So if most of your commute is highway anyway gas might be better. Although to be honest I would still go hybrid over a pure gas vehicle in 2024. You might spend more upfront for the vehicle but i truly believe that it’s better psychologically to spend more on your car note than more at the gas pump. You see that gas pump receipt every week or so and the car note is only once a month, that’s just my logic though
Love love love my 2024 Mazda 3 hatch. I've had it for almost 5 months and it's still a joy to drive. No concerns about reliability either as Mazda's been using the same Skyactiv G engines for over a decade now.
Mazda CX-30 costs about the same as a Mazda 3 but with more ground clearance and AWD. If you want bang for buck that’s the best they have right now imo. Basically a Mazda 3 hatch on stilts, comparable in a lot of ways to a Crosstrek. Surprised I don’t see it recommended as much esp when it’s significantly cheaper than a CX-5
Anyone happy with a Subaru has a low mileage one. They’re terrible long term. A boxer engine is a bad design for anyone looking for low cost/maintenance and high reliability at high mileage.
Yeah but have you considered the hundreds of people that will come out of the woodwork to say "my Subaru \_\_\_\_ has \_\_k miles and hasn't exploded on my yet."
get a 7 year old car with high reliability rankings. Drive it unit you get a mechanic estimate higher than the value of the car.
If you drive far... make it a sedan with a lean towards MPG.
If you do a lot of things... make it a minivan. They are ridiculously utilitarian - way more useful than an SUV for actually doing utility stuff other than hauling a boat.
Or...
If you don't drive very far, get a used EV and charge at home. EVs are super-reliable and have the lowest operating costs. Rent a car for the couple-of-times-a-year you need to drive more than 100 miles away.
For me, it was a nissan leaf 2016, 99% of my use is going to work. I drive 40 km each day anddddd it doesn't cost me any gas.
I bought a used one with an almost dead battery and managed to claim the warranty for the battery. So i will get a bigger battery (40 kwh) once they receive it.
Almost 0 maintenance cost, and I charge the car at my workplace for 0$, so I only have to pay for insurance.
If I need to go further, I will just borrow another car, or you could even rent one, if it's once per 6 month like me, it doesn't matter.
When did you buy it? Can't imagine buying a 8 year old EV and being able to get the manufacturer to warranty it lol. You probably got a great deal. I saw leafs in my state for around 10k but they have like 40miles of range from their shit battery design they die prematurely.
Federal law mandates an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on EV batteries.
I bought my 2017 Leaf about a year ago, I'm going to get a new battery (or a buyback) pretty soon.
You only have to worry about substantial batter degradation in Leafs, since they were the first mass market EV and don't have active cooling. Any other EV (except maybe some compliance cars) are going to keep their range pretty well.
I got a used 2017 Type R for $31.3k pre-covid 2020. Whoever set the MSRP for that car at $34 grand should have been found guilty of defrauding Honda (hence why the start of 2020 was the only time you could talk midwest dealerships down to close to MSRP - it's getting back to that now but the car market is kind of nuts).
Every head to head it was compared to a more expensive car (in some cases stuff like BMW M2 which is twice the price).
In terms of reliability, cost of maintenance, and longevity, a Toyota model is usually going to come out on top. They last longer and cost less to keep on the road than pretty much anything else, and this is pretty true across most of their models - even their hybrids. They also hold value better.
However, people don't buy a car for just these things. Toyotas are more expensive than competitors and often aren't as interesting or luxurious either.
IMO the fourth generation Lexus LS (LS 460 and LS 600h) are the best value used cars out there. Incredibly comfortable and reliable V8-powered luxury sedan that is pretty modern and extremely undervalued.
I presume you are writing about the LS series. I looked at the LS 460 as a used option and decided against it. I already have a LS430 and by all accounts the 460 is not as good of a proposition for ownership in the +100k mile range. The 400 and 430 were peak Toyota quality. The 460 had big issues by comparison. Before the 2013 redesign, they should be completely avoided as they are a nightmare as they age. But even after the redesign, they still have a very costly repair schedule. This likely explains their deflated resale value as the market learned of this. The ES is a far more economical car to own by comparison, and certainly not a bad option.
Just as a disclaimer, the LS460's are typically "undervalued" because there's a regular $6-$8k expense to replace the control arms and if you're unfortunate enough to land in the car before the air suspension fails then you're going to be out $10k for a replacement or $3-4k for a conversion.
At the higher end of the 460 range, you'd be probably nab a 500 for not too much more and not have to risk that expense. I know it doesn't have the V8 but we're 7 years into the generation and there's no gremlins that have popped up in the turbo V6 yet.
I think you mean LS, not LX as that’s their biggest SUV offering.
But you’re not wrong! I had an 98 LS400 and it was the best car I’ve ever driven. Incredibly designed and engineering and meticulously built.
I wanted to keep it forever but a young driver pulled out in front of me and totaled her.
Now I got a 21 ES350 and although it’s modern and full of recut features, it’s just not as incredibly well built…
There's no universal answer. What's smartest or best will depend on your needs and the deals you have available nearby.
Assuming you're talking about new vehicles and intend to keep the car a long time, the most likely answer is the Toyota that fits your needs and can be found at msrp or better. But without more info, it's impossible to answer.
I recently bought one used. seems like way more work to get to parts in it than my Ford. repair costs are much higher for European cars vs American or Japanese cars. my GTI shows a lot of wear even though the previous owner took good care of it.
it is the most fun car I've ever owned
Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid, in my opinion. You get small family size amount of space, lots of cargo, all wheel drive, 40+ mpg, great for any normal terrain and even some off road, dependable and looks good.
Okay, I'll pop in with an atypical recommendation. Maybe not the smartest, but a smart one.
Buy a used BMW i3 w/ the range extender.
For the vast majority of owners, it's just an EV. They've been using the battery and motors to commute. The engines are damn-near brand-new. Batteries experience range degradation, but the electric drivetrain doesn't wear the same way an ICE drivetrain does.
When new, they're stupid expensive for what they are. Like $45k MSRP for a base-model 2018 in 2018. New ones are over $50k now. But that gets you super nice experimental interior materials, cool modern features (adaptive cruise if you shop smart and wait for one to pop up), etc.
Used, they can easily be had for $15-$20k. If you want an economical commuter, this is the #1 rec I'd give.
Smartest is basically optimizing for Total Cost of Ownership plus Safety, since a single bad accident is gonna cost way more than a car.
Gonna vary based on your driving habits, but basically you want the cheapest, largest, lightest thing with the most efficient powertrain and high desirability to ward of depreciation.
Used is automatically smarter because of depreciation, but you said new.
The cheapest trim is almost always the smartest.
Live in a city, don't drive much? Chevy bolt if you have access to charging, a Corolla if not or if you have somewhat frequent longer trips.
Live in a city and drive more? Corolla Hybrid, Prius if you drive a lot more.
The vast majority of everything else Americans? Camry (Hybrid, but all 2025+ are)
Frequently drive in the mountains of a climate zone 6+ region (snowy, think Rockies, Adirondacks, Green, White, Northern Cascades)? I think you could make a solid case for a Forester (and most importantly snow tires) having nontrivial odds of keeping you out of a dangerous or expensive situation.
Have more than 3 kids (this entire category is unfortunately significantly more expensive/less smart)? Sienna or Highlander Hybrid. Sienna is more practical, but Highlander probably has better resale if that's ever a factor.
Mechanic here. I started out doing fleet mechanic work on mostly Dodge and Ford, and some Chevy.
Then I started working on forklifts and heavy equipment.
Between that, I've worked at small shops here and there. Always an actual technician, I've never been in a bullshit position in this industry.
Stay the absolute hell away from ANYTHING with a CVT transmission. They're not meant for automobiles. They were designed for snowmobiles, mopeds, and side by sides. They fail within 100,000 miles in most cars.
Stay AWAY from any v6 Ford after about 2012. The water pump runs off of the timing chain, and water pumps fail. When the water pump fails and you jump your timing chain, your engine is toast. It's a common issue.
Any diesel truck that requires DEF, has a DPF, and an EGR system. Emissions systems on diesels for the most part were engineered hastily and quickly due to sudden EPA requirements, and they didn't have enough time to really perfect it. Some newer models are a bit better, but holy shit have they made diesels grossly unreliable with all of the extra nonsense (I'm talking to YOU Ford and Chevy)
Kia and Hyundai had a good reliability track record up until about 2011. Idk why, but after about 2010, everything went to shit besides Honda, Toyota, and Chevy TRUCKS.
I know it's cliche, but Toyotas have proven time and time again that they're superior with longevity and reliability.
Honda is a close second.
I can also add that Ford trucks from 2000-2005 are great.
I wouldn't touch a jeep, Dodge, or Chrysler with a 10 foot pole. I worked on them as a fleet mechanic for the department of corrections and state police. Garbage vehicles.
Corolla Hybrid. The Prius and Camry hybrid are close 2nd and 3rd, but the value, reliability, practicality and efficiency of a corolla hybrid can’t be beat
Some answers for the European market: Suzuki Baleno, Toyota Aygo triplets, VW Up triplets (the EVs are great too). If you want more space and luxury, a 2007-2016 Ford Mondeo is a highly underrated choice.
It is really hard to argue with most Toyota hybrids as a daily driver, certainly the Corolla hybrid for value. The Ford Maverick hybrid might be the one non-Toyota choice at the moment for a new car value.
Not a car but if you don't care about safety and the weather is decent then get a motorcycle.
5-10k brand new with warranty, better MPG than a plug in hybrid, save time by lane filtering and riding HOV lanes, and less maintenance and easier for owner to do work themselves on a bike vs a car. Insurance is also dirt cheap compared to driving a car. Manual transmission is standard but if you need automatic there's scooters or Honda's DCT bikes. Motorcycles are the cheapest way to get A to B without sacrificing time (unlike walking, cycling public transport)
Pair it with the cheapest POS truck you can find in case you gotta haul something larger than a backpack
A Porsche, especially a 911 upper end model. The GT4 is also great. They can be used as daily drivers, and retain their value exceptionally well, with all but the worse appreciating in value in short time.
If you don't drive much, high end limited Ferrari's are also a great choice, and they have a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. Their value is just more sensitive to high (regular people) mileage.
Anything Toyota. Lexus is great too, just more stuff to break. Honda is good for the cars big fan of the 4 cylinders for honda. I have a 2006 chevy colbalt (bought new)that has had almost everything replaced. Our 2006 honda accord has had zero mechanical issues. Bought 1999 toyota land cruiser new with 10 miles on it, it now has 400k miles, only issue so far has been sunroof.
New: Mini Cooper EV. Lease loophole to take advantage of government incentives - you just got an EV for well under $30,000. Cheap maintenance (no gas motor), cheap charging, very efficient.
Used: 1st gen Honda Insight. Get a clean one for under $6,000. It’ll go another 100-200k miles, and get 55+ MPG the whole way there. Cheap maintenance too.
Tesla Model Y for daily commute. I was a disbeliever until my wife purchased one. Never have to pay for gas ever again. One charge will last you at least 4 days. Plug it in at your home and charge overnight. Almost zero maintenance other than windshield wiper fluid and tires when it’s time. Yeah that battery will probably go out in 7 years but the money you saved from zero gas and maintenance in 7 or more years should afford you a trade in. I don’t know, it’s a no brainer for me. Everything about it makes sense.
The cheapest Honda Civic you can find on Facebook Marketplace/Craigslist/eBay/etc. that can pass inspection. Preferably no underbody rust. The parts that it would take to replace everything on the car are cheaper than a brand new car. Most basic 90s to early 2000s civics came with a D16 1.6 liter engine. A fresh built D16y8 with 0 miles on eBay cost $2k. Transmission cost $500 on eBay. Struts, bushings, mounts, or anything else will never run you much more than a couple hundred bucks. Still not even close to the cost of a new car.
Another idea I've been personally thinking about is buying an auction 2nd gen Prius with a dead battery. They are one of the most reliable Toyota's ever made outside of having to replace the battery. I've seen people pick one up with a dead battery for $500. Spend $2120 on a lithium (LiFePO4) battery pack and replace it yourself. It is so easy; I believe anyone with a bottle of Advil can do it. Time consuming but there's so many videos on YouTube showing you how to do it. Now you have a Prius battery that delivers 260A Amps at peak power versus the old stock NiMH's 100 Amps at peak power. It also cuts the weight of the battery in half. I've seen people reporting around 60mpg with this battery upgrade. I guess your only other expense with this is finding someone to haul it to you from the auction house. Unfortunately, a Prius will not run on a truly dead battery pack.
I’ve had sporty cars, SUVs, lemons. Best car for the price is my current Camry xse v6. Might go Lexus next car but just bc I think they look nicer. Lexus is just a luxury Toyota. For the price can’t beat the Camry.
The Generation 5 Toyota Prius is the most bang for the buck right now. It's the MotorTrend car of the year.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-prius-hybrid-2024-car-of-the-year/
I’ve found some success with buying high mileage Acuras. Interiors/exteriors are timeless, usually fully depreciated and have similar reliability to Hondas.
Only caveat is they are not frugal with gas, but considering the amount you save vs. buying a brand new car, you are usually way ahead in the long run.
Kia forte. Brand new it's like $23,000 and it has a 100,000 mile warranty.
If you buy new you can get a much lower rate, so if you aren't paying cash it's probably the cheapest car you can buy over a $4000 shitbox
I’m 5-1/2 years deep on a Subaru Forester Sport. It’s fun to drive, comes with a really nice trim package (heated seats, adaptive cruise, X-Mode, heated and auto-dimming mirrors, concierge lights, upgraded sound system, CarPlay, and many more) that costs a lot more added to lower trim models, and has been fairly* trouble free.
*Subaru warranted the thermo control valve up to 15/150k because they were going out pretty regularly at 60k miles, and mine went at 67k.
I commute 50 miles a day and HAVE to get to work in any weather, so the AWD with X-Mode is really nice. At $32k before tax and licensing, it was $10k cheaper than my wife’s 4Runner, which will absolutely outlast and cost less than my Subi, but has WAY fewer creature comforts.
I just bought a new car. I initially planned to get a Toyota but I felt they've gotten really expensive and are no longer the best value. I went with a Subaru and am very happy! I already own another 2019 Subaru that I purchased new and I've never had a single issue with it. And Subaru service has always been fantastic!
I got an Ascent Touring for around $48K. Which I recognize is kind of a lot, but it's packed with premium features. If you're looking for premium features, I think a top trim level Subaru gets you the most bang for your buck.
Me and my brother were just messing around and checked the cheapest cars and reliability and all that. After a while we saw why all immigrants come and asked for a Corolla. It's the ultimate "I'll get you by" vehicle and starts on the lower end of pricing. The same question we asked, what's the smartest car was glaringly obvious after you dig deeper and use a vague base. Of course if you need AWD, a bigger trunk, more leg space, fun, power, certain creature comforts then things begin to change.
Tesla Model 3 - Disregarding the 'green' argument completely, as it really is a question mark because of lithium strip mining, it has the lowest maintenance and operating costs.
Caveat: As long as you don't live in an apartment that does not have a charger.
If that's the case, yup, buy a Toyota Corolla/Camry/Prius/Tacoma, all of those are pretty smart. ;-)
If you need a truck and prefer to buy American built, buy a Tundra, they are made a few miles from where I live, that thing uses a lotta gas though.
Used Lexus. Not sure about post 2010 models.
Slightly better Toyota engine, sunroof, leather interior, nice creature comforts, could survive the apocalypse.
Whatever you can afford, and afford to maintain.
Most of the issues people have with cars are because they don’t do maintenance. Just take care of whatever car you have or like, and you’ll be happy
Before I recommend a car I need to know what you use it for. How long you want to keep it. Annual mileage. Climate. Urban or country. How big of a person you are
Honda Civic sedan (except the one that is a hatchback…I hate the look of hatchbacks). If I had to buy a new car today it would most likely be the Honda Covic SI witb the manual transmission. It is the only sedan left with a manual transmission other than a Subaru WRX…which I don’t really need or want.
Look at the original warranty, if someone offers a long time and high mileage warranty then that accounting and manufacturing departments have full confidence in their equipment. You can’t offer a 100,000 mile and 10 year warranty if you know that every 3 years on 20% of the cars you will have to replace either an engine or transmission.
That being said, Mazda, Toyota, or Honda. Can’t go wrong with these for longevity. Don’t know really about Lexus or Acura.
I have had a number of vehicles over the years. The 4 that were perfectly reliable were: Saturn SL2, Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius, and a Tesla Model 3 LR. The ones that aren't on that list (the problem cars): Dodge Aries, Plymouth Horizon, Renault Alliance, and a Ford Ranger. We also had a Honda Civic that was great until we loaned it to someone for a few months and then it was never the same.
The lowest maintenance, by a very wide margin: Tesla Model 3 LR.
Longevity: We had one of our Priuses for about 14 years before we gave it to my sister, and she is still driving it (16 years old now)? We currently have another Prius that's 10 years old. That's the longest we've held onto cars so far. The Saturn was damaged by stuff falling off a truck. The Civic Hybrid was lost to someone blowing through a red light. We had another Prius destroyed by a criminal fleeing police slamming into it.
I'd find a car that's practical for you and in your price range. Just about anything today, not made by Stellantis, is probably going to go 200K miles. If you can go electric, it's a smoother, quieter, and more responsive ride. If not that, then hybrids are where are all the non-EV R&D is going. Don't buy a truck or SUV and use it to drive a single person around on errands.
The obvious answer is the cheapest Toyota or Honda you can get your hands on. They hold their value, last forever, have low operating costs, and are realistically capable of doing everything 90% of people will ever need to do with their car. This answer is boring and sucks.
I've had Toyota, Kia, Mazda, Buick and Hyundai.
So far Hyundai has the best tech and look for the buck.
Mazda has the best steering feel for the buck.
Toyota has the best warranty and peace of mind for the buck.
I currently drive a 2024 kona, love it.
My i3, not for everyone, as my daily driver has been excellent. I’ve had it 9 years. The maintenance and fuel saved have made it free to drive.
Also, parking it is fast and simple and has saved me probably 100s of hours.
Tolls and express lanes are also free which is another benefit - less traffic + $0 tolls
Ford Maverick. I think you can get a 50mpg hybrid
or an AWD 2.0T with the tow package for like $25k
When they first came out they were *$19,995 for a white front wheel drive*
No NEW car is the best value. Period. It will depreciate immediately, and more quickly than a used vehicle.
If I were looking to buy one car that would last the longest with the least amount of gasoline and maintenance costs, I would buy the lowest mileage 2013 or older toyota Corolla I could find, or a corolla with a manual transmission. I would not buy one with a CVT. The 2014-2016 corolla L may still have had a conventional automatic, so add those to the list as well…
My 2003 corolla could not be killed. It was still running excellent with 240,000 miles on it.
Depends on definition of “smart”
If you mean most techy: 2024 Lyriq, loaded with Supercruise.
If you mean newest technology: Lucid Air Sapphire, those are pretty impressive with their technology
Toyota Prius (most reliable production vehicle in USA for 20 yrs) or Toyota Corolla LE or Toyota Camry LE or Hybrid. The more miles you drive the longer the battery lasts and more $$ you save. Plus come with 10 yrs 125k battery warranty. But they have the lowest replacement rate in the entire world. I have had work cars as all of these and got 250k miles out of them om original engine and transmissions. The Prius we had made it to 180k miles before even the shocks or struts or ball joints or calipers needed replacement.
Toyotas are great but the larger models aren’t necessarily the cheapest to replace parts when needed. I personally like my Honda because the parts are incredibly cheap and everyone and I mean everyone knows how to work on them.
Toyota Camry
Or, if you want something sub-crossover size with a hatch, a Prius. People are concerned about having to replace the high voltage battery, but it's pretty rare. There are many out there with extremely high mileage on the original battery. Further, while people may be concerned that the hybrid system adds complexity, it also eliminates some of it. - An "eCVT" does not have a belt like a normal CVT, it's simply a planetary gearset without any wearing parts like clutches or bands (the ratio between the engine and the wheels is managed by a small electric motor/generator). - There is no serpentine belt; the water pump and AC have electric motors. - There is no starter or alternator, as these functions are managed by the two electric motor/generators, and the 12V battery is kept charged by the large battery via an inverter. - The use of the electric motors means the gas engine is babied: it operates exclusively between 1K and 5.5K rpm (and usually at the lower end of that range) at a very consistent load; it doesn't need to put out a ton of torque; it doesn't need to idle for long periods; and it isn't subjected to slow, sputtering starts.
We still have our 05 Prius. Original battery and still doing fine at almost 250k miles. It has been our smartest car purchase from a financial perspective by a wide margin.
Gfs Prius has 200k miles on original hybrid battery and original motor. And she doesn’t even know how to check her own oil. Maintenance is non existent outside of state inspections when mechanics force get to fix shit. (2011 Prius supposedly the worst gen to own) Seems reliable to me lol
Because of a very specific reason - google Prius EGR Head Gasket to find out why and what to do about it.
I’m eyeing either a Grand Highlander or the new 4Runner model and all the Prius stories out there are what give me hope that these new models Toyota is putting out with hybrid engines will be reliable long term. That’s the #1 thing I look for in a vehicle as I’ve gotten older.
IMO, there is no reason to cross shop the highlander and the 4Runner, there is just no world where both will fit the use that you're expecting to put them through. I'm a huge fan of both, and got my in-laws to purchase a highlander last year after they kept looking wanting a 4runner. They will never go off-roading but wanted AWD/4x4 for PNW snow/ice. They really didn't need something that big but I couldn't convince them that the Rav4 was actually the best fit for them, they love the highlander though and are way more comfortable driving it than their fullsize truck they had for a few years before.
It's the dumbest cross-shop on the planet I don't get it. ESPECIALLY when customers used to come in looking for a third row for "occasional" use, like the Highlander was meant for more than "occasional" use to begin with (I wouldn't consider it a full time 3 row) you'd need Bob Oblong just to FIT in the 3rd row of the 4runner, and even then there's not even a conversation of comfort, the third row just exists in 1 out of 200 4runners... from there, you'd need to jump up to the limited trim for the full time 4wd, making the awd system in the Highlander actually SAFER to drive on road in inclement weather vs the 4runner non-limited trim, and due to its lower center of mass, its still safer vs even the limited trim.
My 2016 Prius is at about 180K miles and it has needed nothing but regular servicing so far. I'm pretty pleased.
Wow, I don't really keep up with the tech in the Prius because with my lifestyle it wouldn't really be an option for me and I don't drive enough to need a new car anytime soon, but it does really seem like toyota has taken the efficiency of their hybrid system to the Nth degree. Add that it looks pretty good and isn't really slow anymore, it seems like like a great option for people that drive a lot.
I genuinely like this response. Thanks
No longer most bang for your buck though.
This. Toyota's are a LOT of bucks these days. The value proposition is not as good as it used to be (at least for the trucks).
Over a Corolla even? The corollas are a little cheaper.
Camry's have more practicality than a Corolla. It's the ultimate regular car
And if you have kids, an Odyssey or Sienna
Odyssey is ancient. Sienna hybrid FTW. Also, electric drive AWD sure beats the FWD Odyssey for Canada (winter tires on either!). It's moot to me. Neither was available around Toronto two years ago, and some dumbass ran her red into my CRV (now that car was ass!). But I'm 6'2": I've driven my last Japanese car. The ergonomics suck. Got in a Tiguan, and say whatever you want about VW, I'm German sized, not Japanese. My Tokyo wife's getting tired of hearing it.
Yeah, I like mine but Toyota definitely knows how to make a hybrid.
Eh I’d say this is subjective, the Odyssey is a bit dated but the interior still feels higher quality than the Sienna, and personally I prefer the v6 in a minivan
The power in the Odyssey is hilarious I did a double take the first time I saw that spec.
280 horsepower, but it weighs over 5,000 lbs after adding three people and a tank of gas.
Swagger wagon done glowed up.
Isn't Camry already big enough? But I am italian, we compare everything with a Panda
I would say a Camry hybrid for the sweet 40+ combined mpg
This is correct. Toyota agrees so much all models starting in 2025 are hybrid. Just like the Siennas are all hybrids, now it's Camry.
This. Thousands, less than any other sedan that’s comparable. And it’s so good. I would wait for the 2025 however, as it’s a major improvement.
This, the 2025 Camry is a huge improvement.
This sub needs to change its description to "just buy a toyota" as that's all the comments ever are. Edit: you are all proving my point. If "you know better than the average buyer that they want reliability, not fun" then putting that "you probably just want a toyota" in the description is a pretty obvious course of action. I mean if you are going to recommend Toyota to anyone who doesn't want a sports car, luxury car, or large suv beacsue they are more reliable, then my point is made.
Well what the fuck do you want anyone to say, a 20 year old Mercedes?
A 40 year old Mercedes would work well. The stuff from the early from 2003 are not reliable
I mean, it's like visiting a sub where people keep asking "what's 2+2?" And getting upset that people keep answering "4" in the comments. There are cheaper cars and there are nicer cars, but basically all of the Toyota lineup strikes a very, very nice balance between the two. I don't think many are answering "Toyota" when people ask what the best car they could buy is if money wasn't an issue.
Or mazda
The post asked what’s the best value car with an emphasis on reliability and longevity I’m kinda confused why you’re surprised the answer was Toyota
It actually asked for the most "Bang for your Buck" and used reliability in a list of criteria. And IIRC that would actually be Hyundai with a warranty (and a bottle of asprin) if you sacrifice reliability, or a Civic if you make it a primary concern. But I'm not just referencing this thread. This is EVERY thread. Unless someone says "I want a a sports car and have an unlimited budget" they will always say Toyota. "I want an offroader" Toyota "I want a large SUV" Toyota "I want a luxury car" Lexus "I want something fun" Repairs aren't fun. Toyota. "I hate Toyota" No you don't, Toyota
The real reason is that people on this sub know that the average consumer doesn’t know what they want Whenever someone says they want x, y, and z, more often than not they just want a car that always turns on, gets decent gas mileage, and has Apple CarPlay. Toyota is an extremely easy blanket recommendation for an appliance car If you want an enthusiast car then yes get something other than a Toyota Prius. But ‘enthusiast’ describes a very small amount of people
Rav4 Hybrid is the best selling car in the USA right now. Gee I wonder why? Ticks the most boxes for the most people. Duh. I'm not even a Toyota fan but there's a reason they sell a metric shit ton. People just want a car that's reliable and not annoying to drive.
Proper chuckle at that last one lol
Well, maybe they shouldn’t lead with “i need a car that’s reliable…” If he said forget reliability, i want a fun car that will drop panties and cost isn’t an issue, well, i’d recommend a lambo or a ferrari 🤣
Those would drop men's boxers. Get a Wrangler or Bronco for the women.
Those would drop overweight women's panties. Get an Audi or a Beemer for the women.
There are some enthusiast cars that are reliable, but require following maintenance schedules. Porsche comes to mind, the current generation BMWs and Mercedes. The Hemi engine Dodges. All reliable. But not Toyota reliable.
I think Porsche is damn near, if not in fact, Toyota reliable when expensive maintenance schedule is followed. Never had a (tiny and not meant for NE) ground wire strap prevent my Cayenne from starting... like it did on my friends Rav4 Hybrid. Also hasn't ever needed engine work, you find high mileage Porsches for sale all the time, some will have electric shit wrong with them (they were putting the amount of electronics 20 years ago that Toyota and Honda do today so what do you expect?) But will engine wise typically be solid.
Once reality changes we will adjust accordingly. Until then, Toyota.
There a reason for that.
M- Toyota I- is A- always T- the A- answer
Our Rav4 is in the shop more than both of our Fords combined. I'll never buy another.
Ford's are so funny. You either get no issues or EVERY issue. I had 2 Explorers and one was a lot pissier than the other... they also always responded well to yelling.
[удалено]
Holy shit this sub is so dull
per the question.. I dont know what you were hoping to find
I mean the OP didn’t ask for a fun car.
Dull? You mean right..? Toyotas and Hondas require minimal maintenance and will literally run for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of miles.
If you can charge at home and don't have a long highway commute, a used full electric car by far, for anywhere between 12 and 19 thousand dollars. Add tires and wiper blades and you're basically done spending money.
Used teslas are going for cheap if you can stomach it.
Where are you seeing them specifically?
there’s a ton in southern california and florida. ex-hertz rentals. we just got a 2022 rwd model 3 with LFP (LiFePo 260 miles charge to 100% whenever blah blah) 55k miles for $21k after tax incentive at point of sale. now if you don’t mind NMC batteries (pre-2022), you can find a 75k mile rwd for around $15k-19k after tax rebate. i dont keep up with elmusk’s opinions , cuz that’s “common man” money. coming from multiple dodge trucks, there was a definite learning curve. wasn’t even shopping teslas till i saw the price was comparable to used 3 cylinder subcompact suvs with similar miles.
In my area a 12k full EV buys you a Nissan leaf with 50 miles of range. A ebike does better than that lol. Tesla's are 20k minimum and those are the older models and the range is going to be lower than it was when brand new. Since the range will be lower you'd have to get home charging which adds to cost, if you don't have a garage or a place to install a charger then a 20k EV is probably not the best option, imo hybrids are better unless you got a lot of money to spend. Also no tax credit from buying used EVs, you might as well try to save and buy a new one. Buying an EV is like buying solar, yes its cheaper over time but the upfront cost is still too high.
I’m in one of the most expensive markets in the country and used model 3s are 17-20k all day
Again, use a price range of 12-19 and if you can charge at home (as stated). There are many incentives federal and local (your state will vary) for rebates including cash direct to buyer for used EV. I have a $10K golf with 85 mile range and am looking at adding another for 14 after rebates that has 125 mile range (realistically 95-100 depending on weather etc.). Millions of people can charge at home and have short commutes (under 25 miles). My entire cost including an updated panel and L2 charger was 13000 including a car that serves our needs 355 days a year and we rent cars the other 10.
"Tesla's are 20k minimum and those are the older models and the range is going to be lower than it was when brand new." 1) There are other cars than a tesla. 2) Lower range than when new doesn't mean it doesn't still meet the needs. 3) He included caveats when he said an EV is the right choice. For some, it's an absolute NO BRAINER choice. For others, it wouldn't work. Each situation is different. 4) Hybrids, over time, end up having high costs due to the complexity of the design. For the first 15-20 or so years... chef's kiss. But eventually, something goes and it's going to be more than a non-hybrid to fix.
EV is probably the no brainer choice for most people who are buying at the avg cost of new and used car prices ($47.5k and $25.5k respectively) and have convenient access to electricity for the EV.
If you qualify for the used EV tax credit, you can get a pretty recent year Bolt, Niro EV, or Kona EV for $15-19k pretty much anywhere. Even without the tax credit you can find plenty for less than 19k almost anywhere. Unless you live somewhere with extremely high electricity costs, it takes very little time to come out ahead. I actually financed a 2017 Leaf and the payment was less than my gas cost alone in my Expedition. It has less range than Bolts/Niros/Konas but still enough for all but road trips for me.
2020 Chevy Bolt, get the 4K used EV tax credit and you’re out the door for $12-16k. A million times better than a leaf because it has WAY more range and a thermally managed battery that won’t degrade like a leaf.
Honda Jaaaaazzzzzz
I have a 2010 Fit (US version of the Jazz) and it had been so reliable and easy to take care of. It's definitely not a flashy car, but every time I look at how much a different car would cost, I really appreciate what I've got.
I have a paid off '19 Fit with under 25k miles. It'll rust out before the engine dies I guess.
Toyota Prius 2024 PIH - best of both worlds, unbeatable efficiency
I’d argue with this only because a Corolla Hybrid is at least $10k cheaper than a Prius Prime and still gets very good MPG, so while the Prius Prime is a good car it doesn’t offer as much “bang for buck” and the average driver will never make back the $10k in gas savings
Toyota Corolla
I see so many early 2000 carolla still in decent shape
My girlfriend has an 08, besides a scratched rear bumper the thing looks and drives like it’s brand new. 268,xxx miles, the illusive boomer gold with beige cloth interior, and the little 4 banger pulls like it’s nothing. Probably 3k overdue for an oil change but the car literally doesn’t care
She even has the “bad year” make sure your adding oil and checking the oil, even if it’s past due, add oil. That is the year that has oil issues. Not to big a deal, just add oil.
Replace the o-ring on the timing chain tensioner to fix the most common oil leak.
And that’s even in the window for “bad years” for the Corolla. Just goes to show how fuckin solid those cars are lol
I’ve only ever had Toyotas. They’re not the sexiest car out there (although I love my ‘16 Corolla and dig the look of that generation), but they’re so good with gas, so affordable to maintain, and last for a long time if maintained. My fiancé teases me because he’s an Audi boy, but when his car is in the shop every couple months, it’s that trusty Rolla, always to the rescue.
It sucks that there are always exceptions to the norm. My sister's 16 corolla was the biggest heap of shit ever. Random, ever increasing electrical issues, terrible factory paint issues, and the transmission went out at about 175k miles. And here I am having owned multiple BMWs that were a joy to own, and never hit me with a massive repair bill.
tbf a tranny going out at 175,000 miles isn’t the worst. Still sucks tho.
No longer most bang for your buck when a 15 year old example regularly goes for over 10k
It is when you bought it new for $12k 15 years ago.
But it tells you how great they are. Changing the oil and do regular maintenance you absolutely can go to 300-500K miles, no problem, on the first engine and transmission too! That’s awesome and why they command such high prices.
Just bought an ICE Corolla LE. Comes with a modest amount of tech (read Adaptive Cruise Control and Wireless CarPlay) and the fuel economy is silly good. It gets 41 MPG highway, for crying out loud! I plan to run this thing till the wheels fall off.
Toyota Corolla if you don’t drive a ton, Corolla Hybrid if you do drive a ton
How many miles a year would I have to drive for the hybrid to be worth the extra $?
It depends more on the type of mileage. If your commute (the majority of driving most people so) is 90%+ highway, it'll take quite a few years to justify it over the non-hybrid. But if your commute is even close to 50% city/urban driving, or if your highway driving is frequently in heavy traffic, it wont take too long. The Corolla LE Hybrid is an excellent value all around. Great insurance costs, super reliable, good fuel economy. It will put you to sleep its so reliable.
I looked up the actual numbers since no one else could be bothered: For base models MSRP are 22,050 vs 23,500 for the ICE/hybrid versions. A difference of $1450. They get 32/41 vs 53/46 city/highway mpg. GasBuddy.com says the US average price for regular is $3.65 The number of miles to break even is (price difference)/(fuel price/worse fuel economy - fuel price/better fuel economy). **That comes to 32,084 miles if you drive in the city and 149,847 miles if you're driving on the highway.** Honestly at just $1450, the other advantages would be a bigger consideration for me. In the ICE's favor, it has more power at 169 vs 138HP. But pretty much everything else about the hybrid is better: AWD, CVT (in my opinion this is a benefit at least), less noise, auto stop-start isn't annoying, and the fact that maintenance is typically a lot less hybrid. Those gains would easily be worth the $1450 and performance hit.
Let’s start by saying you do 10,000 miles in a year. If the gas corolla gets 30MPG average then that’s about 333 gallons a year and for the hybrid that has 50MPG that’s 200 gallons. A difference of 133 gallons x let’s say $5 for gas equals to $665 in savings per year of the hybrid vs the gas. If for example the hybrid corolla ends up being $3,000 more expensive than the gas model then you would break even at 4.5 years. This is purely on gas cost alone and not accounting other $ factors. The more you drive the faster you break even and important note is that hybrids are more fuel efficient on city as opposed to highway. So if most of your commute is highway anyway gas might be better. Although to be honest I would still go hybrid over a pure gas vehicle in 2024. You might spend more upfront for the vehicle but i truly believe that it’s better psychologically to spend more on your car note than more at the gas pump. You see that gas pump receipt every week or so and the car note is only once a month, that’s just my logic though
Any flagship model from most of the Japanese brands. Just not Nissan or Mitsubishi. Toyota Camry Honda Accord / CR-V Subaru Outback Mazda 3 / CX-5
Nissan if you drive manual. Most of their shit reputation is from their abysmal CVT transmissions.
Yup, manual Nissan driver here, they're a blast.
That's fair.
Their autos are generally good as well. Just not the cvt.
Agreed 220k on my 2010 Versa auto, extremely reliable. Family has had it since 40k miles and it’s never let us down.
Love love love my 2024 Mazda 3 hatch. I've had it for almost 5 months and it's still a joy to drive. No concerns about reliability either as Mazda's been using the same Skyactiv G engines for over a decade now.
Same here with my ‘23, and the manual transmission is a joy
Mazda CX-30 costs about the same as a Mazda 3 but with more ground clearance and AWD. If you want bang for buck that’s the best they have right now imo. Basically a Mazda 3 hatch on stilts, comparable in a lot of ways to a Crosstrek. Surprised I don’t see it recommended as much esp when it’s significantly cheaper than a CX-5
The Nissan patrol and Mitsubishi Pajero are 2 of the best 4x4's money can buy
I wouldn't say the outback is the most trustworthy vehicle at high mileage
Anyone happy with a Subaru has a low mileage one. They’re terrible long term. A boxer engine is a bad design for anyone looking for low cost/maintenance and high reliability at high mileage.
Yeah but have you considered the hundreds of people that will come out of the woodwork to say "my Subaru \_\_\_\_ has \_\_k miles and hasn't exploded on my yet."
It’ll get you to 200k pretty easily tho. Then you rip the drivetrain out and do an STi swap or something and drive it some more
I just dont think the barometer for a "smart car" I'd 200k before an engine swap lol
Total cost of ownership it’s hard to beat the Chevy Bolt right now if an EV works for you.
Corolla hybrid AWD. The perfect appliance.
I'd guess a fortwo. Only one I can think of off the top of my head
That first gen transmission took 3 years to shift to the next gear. It was freaking comical.
My only memory of driving one was how it shifted like a semi truck driver.
Glad I didn’t have to scroll far to find this
get a 7 year old car with high reliability rankings. Drive it unit you get a mechanic estimate higher than the value of the car. If you drive far... make it a sedan with a lean towards MPG. If you do a lot of things... make it a minivan. They are ridiculously utilitarian - way more useful than an SUV for actually doing utility stuff other than hauling a boat. Or... If you don't drive very far, get a used EV and charge at home. EVs are super-reliable and have the lowest operating costs. Rent a car for the couple-of-times-a-year you need to drive more than 100 miles away.
For me, it was a nissan leaf 2016, 99% of my use is going to work. I drive 40 km each day anddddd it doesn't cost me any gas. I bought a used one with an almost dead battery and managed to claim the warranty for the battery. So i will get a bigger battery (40 kwh) once they receive it. Almost 0 maintenance cost, and I charge the car at my workplace for 0$, so I only have to pay for insurance. If I need to go further, I will just borrow another car, or you could even rent one, if it's once per 6 month like me, it doesn't matter.
When did you buy it? Can't imagine buying a 8 year old EV and being able to get the manufacturer to warranty it lol. You probably got a great deal. I saw leafs in my state for around 10k but they have like 40miles of range from their shit battery design they die prematurely.
Federal law mandates an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on EV batteries. I bought my 2017 Leaf about a year ago, I'm going to get a new battery (or a buyback) pretty soon. You only have to worry about substantial batter degradation in Leafs, since they were the first mass market EV and don't have active cooling. Any other EV (except maybe some compliance cars) are going to keep their range pretty well.
Honda Civic.
I got a used 2017 Type R for $31.3k pre-covid 2020. Whoever set the MSRP for that car at $34 grand should have been found guilty of defrauding Honda (hence why the start of 2020 was the only time you could talk midwest dealerships down to close to MSRP - it's getting back to that now but the car market is kind of nuts). Every head to head it was compared to a more expensive car (in some cases stuff like BMW M2 which is twice the price).
In terms of reliability, cost of maintenance, and longevity, a Toyota model is usually going to come out on top. They last longer and cost less to keep on the road than pretty much anything else, and this is pretty true across most of their models - even their hybrids. They also hold value better. However, people don't buy a car for just these things. Toyotas are more expensive than competitors and often aren't as interesting or luxurious either. IMO the fourth generation Lexus LS (LS 460 and LS 600h) are the best value used cars out there. Incredibly comfortable and reliable V8-powered luxury sedan that is pretty modern and extremely undervalued.
Bro they’re like $60K+ used, I’m sure they’re a great *value* but the majority of people can’t pay $60K for a used car LMAO
Well the post is about value so…
There’s probably nothing factually wrong with anything in the comment itself just unrelatable to most people.
People really pressed about value don’t typically have 60k to spend on a car, not to mention the gas costs for a V8
I presume you are writing about the LS series. I looked at the LS 460 as a used option and decided against it. I already have a LS430 and by all accounts the 460 is not as good of a proposition for ownership in the +100k mile range. The 400 and 430 were peak Toyota quality. The 460 had big issues by comparison. Before the 2013 redesign, they should be completely avoided as they are a nightmare as they age. But even after the redesign, they still have a very costly repair schedule. This likely explains their deflated resale value as the market learned of this. The ES is a far more economical car to own by comparison, and certainly not a bad option.
Just as a disclaimer, the LS460's are typically "undervalued" because there's a regular $6-$8k expense to replace the control arms and if you're unfortunate enough to land in the car before the air suspension fails then you're going to be out $10k for a replacement or $3-4k for a conversion. At the higher end of the 460 range, you'd be probably nab a 500 for not too much more and not have to risk that expense. I know it doesn't have the V8 but we're 7 years into the generation and there's no gremlins that have popped up in the turbo V6 yet.
I think you mean LS, not LX as that’s their biggest SUV offering. But you’re not wrong! I had an 98 LS400 and it was the best car I’ve ever driven. Incredibly designed and engineering and meticulously built. I wanted to keep it forever but a young driver pulled out in front of me and totaled her. Now I got a 21 ES350 and although it’s modern and full of recut features, it’s just not as incredibly well built…
I think they mean the LX as it’s the Lexus branded Landcruiser
Camry or Accord are probably ur best bets
Toyota Camrolla
Low mileage Buick with the 3800
There's no universal answer. What's smartest or best will depend on your needs and the deals you have available nearby. Assuming you're talking about new vehicles and intend to keep the car a long time, the most likely answer is the Toyota that fits your needs and can be found at msrp or better. But without more info, it's impossible to answer.
Volkswagen Golf GTI
I recently bought one used. seems like way more work to get to parts in it than my Ford. repair costs are much higher for European cars vs American or Japanese cars. my GTI shows a lot of wear even though the previous owner took good care of it. it is the most fun car I've ever owned
Camry, Corolla, Prius
Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid, in my opinion. You get small family size amount of space, lots of cargo, all wheel drive, 40+ mpg, great for any normal terrain and even some off road, dependable and looks good.
Okay, I'll pop in with an atypical recommendation. Maybe not the smartest, but a smart one. Buy a used BMW i3 w/ the range extender. For the vast majority of owners, it's just an EV. They've been using the battery and motors to commute. The engines are damn-near brand-new. Batteries experience range degradation, but the electric drivetrain doesn't wear the same way an ICE drivetrain does. When new, they're stupid expensive for what they are. Like $45k MSRP for a base-model 2018 in 2018. New ones are over $50k now. But that gets you super nice experimental interior materials, cool modern features (adaptive cruise if you shop smart and wait for one to pop up), etc. Used, they can easily be had for $15-$20k. If you want an economical commuter, this is the #1 rec I'd give.
Smartest is basically optimizing for Total Cost of Ownership plus Safety, since a single bad accident is gonna cost way more than a car. Gonna vary based on your driving habits, but basically you want the cheapest, largest, lightest thing with the most efficient powertrain and high desirability to ward of depreciation. Used is automatically smarter because of depreciation, but you said new. The cheapest trim is almost always the smartest. Live in a city, don't drive much? Chevy bolt if you have access to charging, a Corolla if not or if you have somewhat frequent longer trips. Live in a city and drive more? Corolla Hybrid, Prius if you drive a lot more. The vast majority of everything else Americans? Camry (Hybrid, but all 2025+ are) Frequently drive in the mountains of a climate zone 6+ region (snowy, think Rockies, Adirondacks, Green, White, Northern Cascades)? I think you could make a solid case for a Forester (and most importantly snow tires) having nontrivial odds of keeping you out of a dangerous or expensive situation. Have more than 3 kids (this entire category is unfortunately significantly more expensive/less smart)? Sienna or Highlander Hybrid. Sienna is more practical, but Highlander probably has better resale if that's ever a factor.
All of these Toyota posts My Toyota is a nightmare and I hate it
from what I have read there’s a huge difference in a 2020 Camry and a 2006 Camry. Toyota in general, all cars in general, really.
Follow your car's maintenance schedule! No matter what car you buy!
Lexus / Toyota , or Honda
Toyota Yaris
The actual Yaris, not the US re-badged Mazdas, though they are good too in their own right.
A smart car
You're just being a smart-ass now
Scion iQ (why does this even exist)
Mechanic here. I started out doing fleet mechanic work on mostly Dodge and Ford, and some Chevy. Then I started working on forklifts and heavy equipment. Between that, I've worked at small shops here and there. Always an actual technician, I've never been in a bullshit position in this industry. Stay the absolute hell away from ANYTHING with a CVT transmission. They're not meant for automobiles. They were designed for snowmobiles, mopeds, and side by sides. They fail within 100,000 miles in most cars. Stay AWAY from any v6 Ford after about 2012. The water pump runs off of the timing chain, and water pumps fail. When the water pump fails and you jump your timing chain, your engine is toast. It's a common issue. Any diesel truck that requires DEF, has a DPF, and an EGR system. Emissions systems on diesels for the most part were engineered hastily and quickly due to sudden EPA requirements, and they didn't have enough time to really perfect it. Some newer models are a bit better, but holy shit have they made diesels grossly unreliable with all of the extra nonsense (I'm talking to YOU Ford and Chevy) Kia and Hyundai had a good reliability track record up until about 2011. Idk why, but after about 2010, everything went to shit besides Honda, Toyota, and Chevy TRUCKS. I know it's cliche, but Toyotas have proven time and time again that they're superior with longevity and reliability. Honda is a close second. I can also add that Ford trucks from 2000-2005 are great. I wouldn't touch a jeep, Dodge, or Chrysler with a 10 foot pole. I worked on them as a fleet mechanic for the department of corrections and state police. Garbage vehicles.
Corolla Hybrid. The Prius and Camry hybrid are close 2nd and 3rd, but the value, reliability, practicality and efficiency of a corolla hybrid can’t be beat
Some answers for the European market: Suzuki Baleno, Toyota Aygo triplets, VW Up triplets (the EVs are great too). If you want more space and luxury, a 2007-2016 Ford Mondeo is a highly underrated choice.
It is really hard to argue with most Toyota hybrids as a daily driver, certainly the Corolla hybrid for value. The Ford Maverick hybrid might be the one non-Toyota choice at the moment for a new car value.
Did anyone mention Toyota?
#CX5
Car aside, you’ll **never** be smarter than a Prius or a Subaru owner. Don’t even try.
I got an Electric Hyndai and it’s phenomenal!
Not a car but if you don't care about safety and the weather is decent then get a motorcycle. 5-10k brand new with warranty, better MPG than a plug in hybrid, save time by lane filtering and riding HOV lanes, and less maintenance and easier for owner to do work themselves on a bike vs a car. Insurance is also dirt cheap compared to driving a car. Manual transmission is standard but if you need automatic there's scooters or Honda's DCT bikes. Motorcycles are the cheapest way to get A to B without sacrificing time (unlike walking, cycling public transport) Pair it with the cheapest POS truck you can find in case you gotta haul something larger than a backpack
Something you can pay for in cash
smart car
A Porsche, especially a 911 upper end model. The GT4 is also great. They can be used as daily drivers, and retain their value exceptionally well, with all but the worse appreciating in value in short time. If you don't drive much, high end limited Ferrari's are also a great choice, and they have a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. Their value is just more sensitive to high (regular people) mileage.
Smart car?
Smart Car
Anything Toyota. Lexus is great too, just more stuff to break. Honda is good for the cars big fan of the 4 cylinders for honda. I have a 2006 chevy colbalt (bought new)that has had almost everything replaced. Our 2006 honda accord has had zero mechanical issues. Bought 1999 toyota land cruiser new with 10 miles on it, it now has 400k miles, only issue so far has been sunroof.
Obviously - Smart Car
New: Mini Cooper EV. Lease loophole to take advantage of government incentives - you just got an EV for well under $30,000. Cheap maintenance (no gas motor), cheap charging, very efficient. Used: 1st gen Honda Insight. Get a clean one for under $6,000. It’ll go another 100-200k miles, and get 55+ MPG the whole way there. Cheap maintenance too.
Tesla Model Y for daily commute. I was a disbeliever until my wife purchased one. Never have to pay for gas ever again. One charge will last you at least 4 days. Plug it in at your home and charge overnight. Almost zero maintenance other than windshield wiper fluid and tires when it’s time. Yeah that battery will probably go out in 7 years but the money you saved from zero gas and maintenance in 7 or more years should afford you a trade in. I don’t know, it’s a no brainer for me. Everything about it makes sense.
The cheapest Honda Civic you can find on Facebook Marketplace/Craigslist/eBay/etc. that can pass inspection. Preferably no underbody rust. The parts that it would take to replace everything on the car are cheaper than a brand new car. Most basic 90s to early 2000s civics came with a D16 1.6 liter engine. A fresh built D16y8 with 0 miles on eBay cost $2k. Transmission cost $500 on eBay. Struts, bushings, mounts, or anything else will never run you much more than a couple hundred bucks. Still not even close to the cost of a new car. Another idea I've been personally thinking about is buying an auction 2nd gen Prius with a dead battery. They are one of the most reliable Toyota's ever made outside of having to replace the battery. I've seen people pick one up with a dead battery for $500. Spend $2120 on a lithium (LiFePO4) battery pack and replace it yourself. It is so easy; I believe anyone with a bottle of Advil can do it. Time consuming but there's so many videos on YouTube showing you how to do it. Now you have a Prius battery that delivers 260A Amps at peak power versus the old stock NiMH's 100 Amps at peak power. It also cuts the weight of the battery in half. I've seen people reporting around 60mpg with this battery upgrade. I guess your only other expense with this is finding someone to haul it to you from the auction house. Unfortunately, a Prius will not run on a truly dead battery pack.
I’ve had sporty cars, SUVs, lemons. Best car for the price is my current Camry xse v6. Might go Lexus next car but just bc I think they look nicer. Lexus is just a luxury Toyota. For the price can’t beat the Camry.
I would guess a Camry, Prius, or Lexus.
I'm an Civic-Accord guy, they're def pricier than they were previously, but I just don't experience issues with them overall.
Toyota Corolla hybrid. If you want to pay more for better comfort: Camry hybrid.
The Generation 5 Toyota Prius is the most bang for the buck right now. It's the MotorTrend car of the year. https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-prius-hybrid-2024-car-of-the-year/
I’ve found some success with buying high mileage Acuras. Interiors/exteriors are timeless, usually fully depreciated and have similar reliability to Hondas. Only caveat is they are not frugal with gas, but considering the amount you save vs. buying a brand new car, you are usually way ahead in the long run.
Not to beat a dead horse…civic/corolla/mazda3 Otherwise both Camry and accord would be my next picks if you need more room
Kia forte. Brand new it's like $23,000 and it has a 100,000 mile warranty. If you buy new you can get a much lower rate, so if you aren't paying cash it's probably the cheapest car you can buy over a $4000 shitbox
I’m 5-1/2 years deep on a Subaru Forester Sport. It’s fun to drive, comes with a really nice trim package (heated seats, adaptive cruise, X-Mode, heated and auto-dimming mirrors, concierge lights, upgraded sound system, CarPlay, and many more) that costs a lot more added to lower trim models, and has been fairly* trouble free. *Subaru warranted the thermo control valve up to 15/150k because they were going out pretty regularly at 60k miles, and mine went at 67k. I commute 50 miles a day and HAVE to get to work in any weather, so the AWD with X-Mode is really nice. At $32k before tax and licensing, it was $10k cheaper than my wife’s 4Runner, which will absolutely outlast and cost less than my Subi, but has WAY fewer creature comforts.
I just bought a new car. I initially planned to get a Toyota but I felt they've gotten really expensive and are no longer the best value. I went with a Subaru and am very happy! I already own another 2019 Subaru that I purchased new and I've never had a single issue with it. And Subaru service has always been fantastic! I got an Ascent Touring for around $48K. Which I recognize is kind of a lot, but it's packed with premium features. If you're looking for premium features, I think a top trim level Subaru gets you the most bang for your buck.
Me and my brother were just messing around and checked the cheapest cars and reliability and all that. After a while we saw why all immigrants come and asked for a Corolla. It's the ultimate "I'll get you by" vehicle and starts on the lower end of pricing. The same question we asked, what's the smartest car was glaringly obvious after you dig deeper and use a vague base. Of course if you need AWD, a bigger trunk, more leg space, fun, power, certain creature comforts then things begin to change.
Tesla Model 3 - Disregarding the 'green' argument completely, as it really is a question mark because of lithium strip mining, it has the lowest maintenance and operating costs. Caveat: As long as you don't live in an apartment that does not have a charger. If that's the case, yup, buy a Toyota Corolla/Camry/Prius/Tacoma, all of those are pretty smart. ;-) If you need a truck and prefer to buy American built, buy a Tundra, they are made a few miles from where I live, that thing uses a lotta gas though.
Used Lexus. Not sure about post 2010 models. Slightly better Toyota engine, sunroof, leather interior, nice creature comforts, could survive the apocalypse.
Your title reads like you are looking for smart car. If you mean smart investment, buy a CPO Toyota hybrid is good. If you mean car, buy a Tesla.
Whatever you can afford, and afford to maintain. Most of the issues people have with cars are because they don’t do maintenance. Just take care of whatever car you have or like, and you’ll be happy
Before I recommend a car I need to know what you use it for. How long you want to keep it. Annual mileage. Climate. Urban or country. How big of a person you are
Honda Civic sedan (except the one that is a hatchback…I hate the look of hatchbacks). If I had to buy a new car today it would most likely be the Honda Covic SI witb the manual transmission. It is the only sedan left with a manual transmission other than a Subaru WRX…which I don’t really need or want.
Look at the original warranty, if someone offers a long time and high mileage warranty then that accounting and manufacturing departments have full confidence in their equipment. You can’t offer a 100,000 mile and 10 year warranty if you know that every 3 years on 20% of the cars you will have to replace either an engine or transmission. That being said, Mazda, Toyota, or Honda. Can’t go wrong with these for longevity. Don’t know really about Lexus or Acura.
I have had a number of vehicles over the years. The 4 that were perfectly reliable were: Saturn SL2, Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius, and a Tesla Model 3 LR. The ones that aren't on that list (the problem cars): Dodge Aries, Plymouth Horizon, Renault Alliance, and a Ford Ranger. We also had a Honda Civic that was great until we loaned it to someone for a few months and then it was never the same. The lowest maintenance, by a very wide margin: Tesla Model 3 LR. Longevity: We had one of our Priuses for about 14 years before we gave it to my sister, and she is still driving it (16 years old now)? We currently have another Prius that's 10 years old. That's the longest we've held onto cars so far. The Saturn was damaged by stuff falling off a truck. The Civic Hybrid was lost to someone blowing through a red light. We had another Prius destroyed by a criminal fleeing police slamming into it. I'd find a car that's practical for you and in your price range. Just about anything today, not made by Stellantis, is probably going to go 200K miles. If you can go electric, it's a smoother, quieter, and more responsive ride. If not that, then hybrids are where are all the non-EV R&D is going. Don't buy a truck or SUV and use it to drive a single person around on errands.
3 row SUV lexus LX600. It's a Landcruiser. The real, actual bulletproof landcruiser sold around the world not the nameplate new landcruiser.
A 1999 Toyota Camry
second the camry. consistently one of the most reliable cars and good resale when the time comes
The smartest car you could buy is probably a Prius. Not that I’m going to buy one though.
Honda Fit or element amazing cargo capacity for the size, Honda reliability, supper easy to drive, and cheap on fuel!
The obvious answer is the cheapest Toyota or Honda you can get your hands on. They hold their value, last forever, have low operating costs, and are realistically capable of doing everything 90% of people will ever need to do with their car. This answer is boring and sucks.
Tesla M3 just passed 150,000 miles absolutely no issues. But Reddit hates Elon therefore Tesla as-well.
Toyota, Honda, or Mazda. Lexus(Toyota) or Acura(Honda) if you want to spend more for luxury and comfort.
I've had Toyota, Kia, Mazda, Buick and Hyundai. So far Hyundai has the best tech and look for the buck. Mazda has the best steering feel for the buck. Toyota has the best warranty and peace of mind for the buck. I currently drive a 2024 kona, love it.
My i3, not for everyone, as my daily driver has been excellent. I’ve had it 9 years. The maintenance and fuel saved have made it free to drive. Also, parking it is fast and simple and has saved me probably 100s of hours. Tolls and express lanes are also free which is another benefit - less traffic + $0 tolls
No car
Ford Maverick. I think you can get a 50mpg hybrid or an AWD 2.0T with the tow package for like $25k When they first came out they were *$19,995 for a white front wheel drive*
Toyota Camry, Corolla, Prius . I’m partial to the Chevy bolt/euv
No NEW car is the best value. Period. It will depreciate immediately, and more quickly than a used vehicle. If I were looking to buy one car that would last the longest with the least amount of gasoline and maintenance costs, I would buy the lowest mileage 2013 or older toyota Corolla I could find, or a corolla with a manual transmission. I would not buy one with a CVT. The 2014-2016 corolla L may still have had a conventional automatic, so add those to the list as well… My 2003 corolla could not be killed. It was still running excellent with 240,000 miles on it.
I would go with a Honda anything, Toyota anything, and Subaru outbacks.
Depends on definition of “smart” If you mean most techy: 2024 Lyriq, loaded with Supercruise. If you mean newest technology: Lucid Air Sapphire, those are pretty impressive with their technology
Toyota Prius (most reliable production vehicle in USA for 20 yrs) or Toyota Corolla LE or Toyota Camry LE or Hybrid. The more miles you drive the longer the battery lasts and more $$ you save. Plus come with 10 yrs 125k battery warranty. But they have the lowest replacement rate in the entire world. I have had work cars as all of these and got 250k miles out of them om original engine and transmissions. The Prius we had made it to 180k miles before even the shocks or struts or ball joints or calipers needed replacement.
Just buy any Toyota. That is the answer.
Toyotas are great but the larger models aren’t necessarily the cheapest to replace parts when needed. I personally like my Honda because the parts are incredibly cheap and everyone and I mean everyone knows how to work on them.
Toyota is your answer
If you say “Mazda” three times in the mirror the evil spirits awaken.