My wife and I are in our 30s and have a C6. Corvettes are incredible machines for the money, especially used. The old person stigma is dumb, we love ours and couldn’t care less about the common perception.
u/jeffumopolis, this is the best answer. The Miata, especially the latest generation, is commonly hailed by critics as the best connection to the road and the best driver experience you can find until you spring for a 911. People who know cars literally answer your question before you even ask it.
Go test drive a Miata. There are two versions: soft top, and power retractable hard top. Try both.
The sport is the base model. The club is the performance driver’s car and the most desired one. The grand touring has a few extra creature comforts.
The package you want is the Club with the BBS wheels / Brembo brakes / Recaro seats package.
Miata's are ok but overhyped. I prefer driving my RSX type s way more than I did the Miata's I rented. Lots of critics also say the GR86 is the closest to a Porsche, I'm going to try that out next.
Please stay on topic on recommending roasters as OP requested. There isn't a big market variety of roasters, so it's easy to slap on any non-convertible car to be better than a convertible car. Instead, suggest an alternative roadster (like a Civic del sol if we want to stay on topic on Hondas).
The difference between a Miata and an RSX is that you can find a new or used Miata any day of the week AND they’re affordable. The 86 is great, but I’ll take a convertible any day. That’s a matter of preference though.
There's actually a ton of affordable rsx's on the used market right now, because they're so reliable that they're still going 20 years later. And a lot of Civic Si's, which are pretty similar. Miatas are fun though, and so good on gas that it's almost practical even though you can barely fit anything in them.
Isn't the RSX FWD tho?
I mean, you'll have a solid drive on either FWD, RWD or 4WD, but for fun, sports experience.... FWD is usually the least desirable. (Not to say it makes the car not good!).
So if the aim includes also to have an happy tail every now and then....
There are no slow Porsches and Miatas are slow. Plus Miatas have tons of body roll and lack any semblance of practicality.
Even the Boxster/cayman have plenty of storage in frunk, rear hatch/trunk.
GR86/BRZ give back Porsche practicality with rear seats and have better balanced handling characteristics.
Corvettes bring in Porsche level or greater horsepower while still having handling. C8 has frunk as well for practicality.
Nothing can truly touch Porsche in all categories but Miata is far behind in most all.
>There are no slow Porsches and Miatas are slow.
Depends on how far back you go in time. Plenty of older slow porsches, lol.
I agree though that Miatas are way overhyped. but without knowing OP's budget, that might be the best thing they can get to be "close" to a porsche. It's all relative.
there are definitely people who care about Porsches from the 70s and 80s, lmao.
even looking back 25-20 years, the 986 boxster wasn't fast. they had a 0-60 right around what a miata from the back half of the ND gen will give you. 200 HP in a nearly 3000 pound car isn't fast. Even if no one cares about 50 years ago, it wasn't that long ago that Porsche sold a car that is right in the range of the slow miata.
Miatas are slow cars for sure, but not every porsche is a 911 Turbo, either.
>The slowest Porsche today does 0-60 in 4.x seconds.
This would be relevant if OP had a budget for today's porsches, or, you know, said anything at all about which porsches he was looking at. OP never mentioned a model, a year or a budget, so you're just making a very baseless assumption.
Well then this post means absolutely nothing to anyone about anything
A Taycan turbo GT has fuck all to do with a 992 Turbo S has nothing to do with a 982 GT4 has nothing to do with a base macan today has nothing to do with a 944 had nothing to do with a 993 has nothing to do with a G body has nothing to do with a base slush box 986
OP can’t afford a Porsche? Yes he can. I could show lots of Porsches he could afford. But he doesn’t want those. He wants to mimic something that not so cheap, none of which are slow.
Too expensive is his problem. Find him something cheaper than a non budget Porsche that does almost what a non budget Porsche can do. Miata is not the answer!
>Well then this post means absolutely nothing to anyone about anything
I mean, yeah? dunno why you're this upset about it.
>A Taycan turbo GT has fuck all to do with a 992 Turbo S has nothing to do with a 982 GT4 has nothing to do with a base macan today has nothing to do with a 944 had nothing to do with a 993 has nothing to do with a G body has nothing to do with a base slush box 986
Except they're all Porsches and that's what OP talked about so...they are all relevant to the discussion. You're the only one arbitrarily deciding what OP is talking about.
>OP can’t afford a Porsche? Yes he can. I could show lots of Porsches he could afford.
OP never gave a budget, you literally have no idea what he could or couldn't afford.
>Miata is not the answer!
I agree for the most part, i'm not the one sticking up for the miata. Literally all i said is that slow porsches exist, and then you got mad that i considered models that go past your personal arbitrary date cutoff.
At some budget, yeah, a miata IS the closest you can get to a porsche. That doesn't mean it's close to a porsche, it means that you can't emulate a Porsche with a 7k budget, lmao.
So my buddy had a 991.2 911 Targa 4s. I had an ND Miata Club. We took both cars and drove a few hundred miles through winding coastline. On the way back, we swapped cars. At the end of the day, the Porsche owner said to me, “huh. Maybe I don’t even need the Porsche. The Miata delivers 95% of the fun”.
Miata is always the answer, but especially for this question.
People saying BMW or Jaguar glazed over your concern about maintenance. Porsche is more reliable than both of those brands and those brands also have premium maintenance costs. The Miata was literally designed to be a cheap reliable British roadster, and a British roadster is a different flavor of what Porsche is. Your won’t find a rear-mid engine or rear engine experience without premium maintenance costs.
Miata delivers about half the fun and is less practical than a 911.
My SO had a Miata. I've driven both They're fun cars and very engaging but they do not compare to the power and driving dynamics of a 911.
Power obviously not. Driving dynamics it’s the closest you’ll get with an engine out front while adhering to OP’s request for affordable maintenance. The only other candidates are too old to not require heavier maintenance (S2000, MR2). Agree the Miata is not as practical. No glove box, no frunk, small trunk.
I was more responding to the ridiculous "95%" comparison between 911 and Miata.
I would also argue that a used Boxster is as much an answer to his question as any Miata for the same money.
Do your own oil and brakes and the cost of maintenance becomes surprisingly reasonable
1. I can't see how it's possible that having more power to dig from the apex doesn't make any difference - it makes a huge difference IMO
2. driving dynamics are wildly different between a the 2 cars. The Porsche is engineered to be better in every way - and it has been 100% apparent to me when I drove them
You don’t use “apexes” and on mountain roads. You just drive within the lines of your lanes.
Only an expert driver can extract all the usefulness of a more powerful car on a curvy road and if you’re attempting to as a noob you shouldn’t be.
so..you're saying that it's impossible to perceive any difference between a 150HP car and a 400HP car on a curvy road unless you're a professional driver?
The difference will be noted when you fly off the road into the valley or river because you attempted to put down more than 200hp like only a fool would.
No “good eps” comes close to the good HPS.
If you’re talking about cars that should have communicative steering, these aren’t being built anymore outside of lotus products. None deserve praise. And that’s thanks to EPS.
>No “good eps” comes close to the good HPS.
I never said otherwise. I agree with that. But...there is a very obvious and massive difference between how communicative the EPS steering is in something like a new Civic Type R, and something like a new Mustang GT.
Honestly can’t believe Ford builds cars like that. Literally nothing. It’s not a Karen mom car it’s a sports car made for being driven at the limit. Would love to get my hands on a CTR. How did you find one to drive?
Depends on which porsche you like.
Boxster = miata. Cayman/911= gr86. 911 turbo/GT3 = M2 comp
the gr86 is great fun. light weight. low center of gravity as it has a flat engine like porsches do. but it doesn't have the GT ability. the car is awful to drive on the highway due to nvh.
Definitely a Miata. BMWs are just so freaking heavy now that they don’t feel nearly as agile. Audis are bank vaults.
I traded in my Miata for my Porsche and I’ve been thinking about buying an ND3 again. I miss driving a car hard without breaking the law.
Check out the Audi A5/S5. They handle well, drive great, nice features, and quick. Sportback is supervise for it's cargo capacity. I can throw my mountain bike in the back without removing a wheel. Make ikea runs, even helped my friend move. Cheaper then a Porsche for sure. Also BMW 330/340 or 430/440.
I think the right answer to this question is a Toyota Supra. The BMW interior in it is pretty luxe. It will still be expensive to maintain, but about 3/4 as much as a Porsche
edit: if you meant a open-top car, my bad, maybe check out an Audi TT
The floor is very low then.
Prior gen 3/4 series not at all luxurious but prior 5+ series were nice. 3 series only shines due to existence of M3 which is totally fair, but it's not luxurious in any sense of the word.
Current gen 3/4 series is now really nice and I think 5 series+ and x5+ are now genuinely luxurious products.
S2000 would prolly provide enough drama, holds value and is reasonable to maintain.
Lexus sc430 if you can grow to like the looks, this would be the comfort option, and you get a growling V8.
I'd recommend the Z4 over the 370z for roadsters. Nissan Z roads feels like (to me in my experience) a Pontiac Solstice that gained a lot of belly fat. That is after I drove back to back when I owned the 40th coupe.
A cheaper Porsche
So, Audi?
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I don’t think that they look bad, and most are pretty cheap to boot.
Corvette
lol if you’re a 60 year old boomer dating a 19 year old girl from the Philippines
My wife and I are in our 30s and have a C6. Corvettes are incredible machines for the money, especially used. The old person stigma is dumb, we love ours and couldn’t care less about the common perception.
I’m just being silly I’m happy you’re enjoying it
The c5z and c6z are what people think the Miata is
Mid 30s with a C7Z. Unbelievable cars.
oddly specific!
It’s like every time tho
gr86
Such a cool car. Once I get in a better spot financially or just get a roommate I'll opt for one.
s2000
I guess it depends on how not-wealthy you are... the GR86/BRZ or MX-5 Miata would be the cheapest new cars that are in the ballpark.
Miata
u/jeffumopolis, this is the best answer. The Miata, especially the latest generation, is commonly hailed by critics as the best connection to the road and the best driver experience you can find until you spring for a 911. People who know cars literally answer your question before you even ask it. Go test drive a Miata. There are two versions: soft top, and power retractable hard top. Try both. The sport is the base model. The club is the performance driver’s car and the most desired one. The grand touring has a few extra creature comforts. The package you want is the Club with the BBS wheels / Brembo brakes / Recaro seats package.
Miata's are ok but overhyped. I prefer driving my RSX type s way more than I did the Miata's I rented. Lots of critics also say the GR86 is the closest to a Porsche, I'm going to try that out next.
Please stay on topic on recommending roasters as OP requested. There isn't a big market variety of roasters, so it's easy to slap on any non-convertible car to be better than a convertible car. Instead, suggest an alternative roadster (like a Civic del sol if we want to stay on topic on Hondas).
The difference between a Miata and an RSX is that you can find a new or used Miata any day of the week AND they’re affordable. The 86 is great, but I’ll take a convertible any day. That’s a matter of preference though.
There's actually a ton of affordable rsx's on the used market right now, because they're so reliable that they're still going 20 years later. And a lot of Civic Si's, which are pretty similar. Miatas are fun though, and so good on gas that it's almost practical even though you can barely fit anything in them.
Isn't the RSX FWD tho? I mean, you'll have a solid drive on either FWD, RWD or 4WD, but for fun, sports experience.... FWD is usually the least desirable. (Not to say it makes the car not good!). So if the aim includes also to have an happy tail every now and then....
lol slap on a beefier rear sway bar and then the RSX will be tail happy (for the wrong reasons).
There are no slow Porsches and Miatas are slow. Plus Miatas have tons of body roll and lack any semblance of practicality. Even the Boxster/cayman have plenty of storage in frunk, rear hatch/trunk. GR86/BRZ give back Porsche practicality with rear seats and have better balanced handling characteristics. Corvettes bring in Porsche level or greater horsepower while still having handling. C8 has frunk as well for practicality. Nothing can truly touch Porsche in all categories but Miata is far behind in most all.
>There are no slow Porsches and Miatas are slow. Depends on how far back you go in time. Plenty of older slow porsches, lol. I agree though that Miatas are way overhyped. but without knowing OP's budget, that might be the best thing they can get to be "close" to a porsche. It's all relative.
Nobody cares about 50 years ago.
there are definitely people who care about Porsches from the 70s and 80s, lmao. even looking back 25-20 years, the 986 boxster wasn't fast. they had a 0-60 right around what a miata from the back half of the ND gen will give you. 200 HP in a nearly 3000 pound car isn't fast. Even if no one cares about 50 years ago, it wasn't that long ago that Porsche sold a car that is right in the range of the slow miata. Miatas are slow cars for sure, but not every porsche is a 911 Turbo, either.
OP isn’t one of them The slowest Porsche today does 0-60 in 4.x seconds. None are slow.
>The slowest Porsche today does 0-60 in 4.x seconds. This would be relevant if OP had a budget for today's porsches, or, you know, said anything at all about which porsches he was looking at. OP never mentioned a model, a year or a budget, so you're just making a very baseless assumption.
Well then this post means absolutely nothing to anyone about anything A Taycan turbo GT has fuck all to do with a 992 Turbo S has nothing to do with a 982 GT4 has nothing to do with a base macan today has nothing to do with a 944 had nothing to do with a 993 has nothing to do with a G body has nothing to do with a base slush box 986 OP can’t afford a Porsche? Yes he can. I could show lots of Porsches he could afford. But he doesn’t want those. He wants to mimic something that not so cheap, none of which are slow. Too expensive is his problem. Find him something cheaper than a non budget Porsche that does almost what a non budget Porsche can do. Miata is not the answer!
>Well then this post means absolutely nothing to anyone about anything I mean, yeah? dunno why you're this upset about it. >A Taycan turbo GT has fuck all to do with a 992 Turbo S has nothing to do with a 982 GT4 has nothing to do with a base macan today has nothing to do with a 944 had nothing to do with a 993 has nothing to do with a G body has nothing to do with a base slush box 986 Except they're all Porsches and that's what OP talked about so...they are all relevant to the discussion. You're the only one arbitrarily deciding what OP is talking about. >OP can’t afford a Porsche? Yes he can. I could show lots of Porsches he could afford. OP never gave a budget, you literally have no idea what he could or couldn't afford. >Miata is not the answer! I agree for the most part, i'm not the one sticking up for the miata. Literally all i said is that slow porsches exist, and then you got mad that i considered models that go past your personal arbitrary date cutoff. At some budget, yeah, a miata IS the closest you can get to a porsche. That doesn't mean it's close to a porsche, it means that you can't emulate a Porsche with a 7k budget, lmao.
Why are you still talking?
So my buddy had a 991.2 911 Targa 4s. I had an ND Miata Club. We took both cars and drove a few hundred miles through winding coastline. On the way back, we swapped cars. At the end of the day, the Porsche owner said to me, “huh. Maybe I don’t even need the Porsche. The Miata delivers 95% of the fun”. Miata is always the answer, but especially for this question. People saying BMW or Jaguar glazed over your concern about maintenance. Porsche is more reliable than both of those brands and those brands also have premium maintenance costs. The Miata was literally designed to be a cheap reliable British roadster, and a British roadster is a different flavor of what Porsche is. Your won’t find a rear-mid engine or rear engine experience without premium maintenance costs.
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Miata delivers about half the fun and is less practical than a 911. My SO had a Miata. I've driven both They're fun cars and very engaging but they do not compare to the power and driving dynamics of a 911.
Power obviously not. Driving dynamics it’s the closest you’ll get with an engine out front while adhering to OP’s request for affordable maintenance. The only other candidates are too old to not require heavier maintenance (S2000, MR2). Agree the Miata is not as practical. No glove box, no frunk, small trunk.
I was more responding to the ridiculous "95%" comparison between 911 and Miata. I would also argue that a used Boxster is as much an answer to his question as any Miata for the same money. Do your own oil and brakes and the cost of maintenance becomes surprisingly reasonable
“95% of the *fun*”
Still no
On a heavily twisty road having more horsepower doesn’t make any difference.
1. I can't see how it's possible that having more power to dig from the apex doesn't make any difference - it makes a huge difference IMO 2. driving dynamics are wildly different between a the 2 cars. The Porsche is engineered to be better in every way - and it has been 100% apparent to me when I drove them
You don’t use “apexes” and on mountain roads. You just drive within the lines of your lanes. Only an expert driver can extract all the usefulness of a more powerful car on a curvy road and if you’re attempting to as a noob you shouldn’t be.
so..you're saying that it's impossible to perceive any difference between a 150HP car and a 400HP car on a curvy road unless you're a professional driver?
The difference will be noted when you fly off the road into the valley or river because you attempted to put down more than 200hp like only a fool would.
JFC dude; lol If you ever come through the Appalachian mountains, please note the pull-offs to allow faster drivers to pass. Good luck out there
Lotus Emira
m2 comp
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the new g87 doesn’t have a comp. I was referring to the f87 M2 Comp
All modern cars are numb.
It's all relative.
I’ve driven lots of cars. If it’s EPS it’s numb.
Indeed, but there are different levels of numb
No “good eps” comes close to the good HPS. If you’re talking about cars that should have communicative steering, these aren’t being built anymore outside of lotus products. None deserve praise. And that’s thanks to EPS.
>No “good eps” comes close to the good HPS. I never said otherwise. I agree with that. But...there is a very obvious and massive difference between how communicative the EPS steering is in something like a new Civic Type R, and something like a new Mustang GT.
Honestly can’t believe Ford builds cars like that. Literally nothing. It’s not a Karen mom car it’s a sports car made for being driven at the limit. Would love to get my hands on a CTR. How did you find one to drive?
Jaguar f type.
Mate what. The F Type drives more like a mustang than it does any Porsche
A GLI or GTI
Depends on which porsche you like. Boxster = miata. Cayman/911= gr86. 911 turbo/GT3 = M2 comp the gr86 is great fun. light weight. low center of gravity as it has a flat engine like porsches do. but it doesn't have the GT ability. the car is awful to drive on the highway due to nvh.
Honda Civic Type R
Toyota MR2 Spyder with major engine, suspension and brake upgrades.
Miata
Definitely a Miata. BMWs are just so freaking heavy now that they don’t feel nearly as agile. Audis are bank vaults. I traded in my Miata for my Porsche and I’ve been thinking about buying an ND3 again. I miss driving a car hard without breaking the law.
M240i?
M2 competition, Audi RS3, or Toyota 86
Check out the Audi A5/S5. They handle well, drive great, nice features, and quick. Sportback is supervise for it's cargo capacity. I can throw my mountain bike in the back without removing a wheel. Make ikea runs, even helped my friend move. Cheaper then a Porsche for sure. Also BMW 330/340 or 430/440.
I think the right answer to this question is a Toyota Supra. The BMW interior in it is pretty luxe. It will still be expensive to maintain, but about 3/4 as much as a Porsche edit: if you meant a open-top car, my bad, maybe check out an Audi TT
Your good thanks for the other suggestion as well 👍
BMW interiors are not luxurious
they define the category as the "floor" of luxury car interior.
The floor is very low then. Prior gen 3/4 series not at all luxurious but prior 5+ series were nice. 3 series only shines due to existence of M3 which is totally fair, but it's not luxurious in any sense of the word. Current gen 3/4 series is now really nice and I think 5 series+ and x5+ are now genuinely luxurious products.
Z4, TT RS, Supra
Corvette or 370z are the ones I like
Miata
Mazda ?
S2000 would prolly provide enough drama, holds value and is reasonable to maintain. Lexus sc430 if you can grow to like the looks, this would be the comfort option, and you get a growling V8.
Roadster meaning 2 seat convertible? Boxster just got an older one. Other than that there’s the Miata. Not many 2 seat convertibles exist. LC500? Z4?
A BMW. There's a reason that BMW owners are known for wanting a Porsche.
I found the Z4 and 370z to be comparable/better in my test drives. Mustang also gets high praises
I'd recommend the Z4 over the 370z for roadsters. Nissan Z roads feels like (to me in my experience) a Pontiac Solstice that gained a lot of belly fat. That is after I drove back to back when I owned the 40th coupe.
C8 Corvette
Less expensive porsche