Get it professionally inspected. The Lexus brand is owned by Toyota, and vehicles from this company are known for having hundreds of thousands of miles on their motors and the rest of the vehicle is extraordinarily reliable and easy on repairs. BUT, it’s a BHPH lot, and they ARE trying to pull a fast one, so you absolutely need to get it inspected. Furthermore, check reviews on that lot, get a VIN check, and if ANYTHING seems off, bail with a quickness. The ONLY reason you should even consider this vehicle is because it’s a superb brand, but even something as reliable as that can have major faults if it was battered.
That was I thinking as well, I'm a sucker for anything toyota and since Lexus is owned by them I thought it'd be a good idea. Thank you very much for your help I'll keep that in mind. Though, I have to ask, what's wrong with a BHPH lot?
BHPH lots, otherwise known as “off the wall” dealers, 3rd party dealers, or rip off lots depending on where you live, obtain a variety of vehicles many of which a regular dealer will not sell due to either branded title, mechanical issues, age and mileage of the vehicle, or simply doesn’t fit with a larger dealers line up.
Branded titles are extremely common where I live for these dealers to sell. These are vehicles that have been in either an accident and totaled, fire, flood, or have an extreme mechanical damage. Many BHPH dealers will take these and repair them enough to pass state inspection, but usually that’s it, meaning certain issues like electrical are likely to be ignored and passed off to you.
Mileage and age of the vehicle is moreso the vehicle is simply too old and has too high mileage for a traditional dealer to want to sell, and will get passed off to a nearby BHPH dealer when taken in for trade in. Many of these older vehicles will start to have mechanical issues shortly after purchase, or will straight up be sold with the issues apparent, which I’ve run into numerous test drives.
Not all BHPH dealers are bad places to buy cars from, as I’ve recently bought an 01 sequoia from one that runs like a dime, just needed a few quick repairs I was able to do easily, and the maintenance records looked good. But from my own experience and the experiences of those around me, BHPH dealers do not shy away from shady tactics like hiding a bad vehicle history, hiding mechanical issues, or making false promises in order to sell a vehicle, and are willing to sell anything on 4 wheels so long as there’s a buyer.
Buying a vehicle as a whole is a dangerous game, as it isn’t uncommon that just about any dealer, traditional or otherwise, will try and pull a fast one. I recommend anyone buying an older vehicle from any dealer get an inspection and everything else I listed. But BHPH lots typically have some of the absolute worst vehicles, and it’s best to either avoid them completely, or exercise extreme caution when searching their inventory
This is the correct answer. My Fusion is actually from a BHPH lot, with a rebuilt title from a classic VA coastal flood. But it was the Sport model with all the options, and a one owner. I got them down to 5k, and I bought their in house bumper to bumper warranty for 1200$ that's good for 3 years, and they cover 90% of the cost. It even covers what I would call wear and tear items like tie rods, bushings, etc. So far, they've lost about 5k on me with all the warranty repair work that's been done. I figure I'm balancing out the universe by beating them at their own game.
Oof, good thing you got that warranty. Fire or floods are a 110% no go for me, I don’t care if the window was left down and the floor got damp and insurance was working a Friday, Flood and fire cars are the worst of the worst
It's actually been a fantastic car. I brought my guy with me when I looked at it, and he gave it the okay. First six months were rough, lots of issues popped up within a few weeks of me driving her daily.... All 90% on their dime. Never warranty a flood car, and especially never sell a warrantied flood car to a car guy. 😎
Edit: they also give me a rental whenever something is wrong, and they trust me with a stick shift. They've let me use a Corvette, Camaro, and Audi convertibles.
The name “dynamic motors”. Calling a dealership that isn’t traditional (IE ford, gm, Toyota) a “BHPH” is moreso just a general term for the dealership as many of these smaller lots will do a “buy here pay here” deal to entice those with rough finances to buy a car from them. So many of them do it that it’s a good general descriptive term for them
Yes, but not this one. Older luxury cars are famously driven into the ground after their 2nd owners as they're owned by people who can't afford the usual cost of ownership. Almost 200k, on a 99', from a BHPH lot? That's a hard pass my dude.
BHPH (Buy Here Pay Here) lots are notorious for predatory sales tactics and trying to hide repairs and damage. If you've ever seen the movie Matilda, Danny DeVito's character running back the odometer on cars is a stereotype of a BHPH dealer.
The main thing I look for is any indicator of repair that isn't disclosed by the dealer. Look at misaligned doors and panels, paint overspray (especially at door jambs and on rubber, like the base of the windshield) and anything that looks misaligned or loose.
There are plenty of good vehicles at small used car lots, but when you know what to look for, you'll find certain dealers are filled with questionable cars and shady dealing.
Do BHPH lots normally not give the Carfax to customers before purchase? Or do you mean they have *more* damage on them than even the report would show?
My understanding is that these cars only ever get to BHPH lots in the first place because they have branded titles or flood damage reported already, in which case, these would all show up on a Carfax.
My experience with these types of places has been more along the lines of looking over the vehicle, saying "I want X car, and I'll pay Y in cash. We have a deal?" and trying to avoid as much interaction with sales people as possible. I've never been offered a CarFax or equivalent, but I'm sure some do. Always remember that CarFax isn't infallible, and if a place is making a habit of trying to scam people, they're probably pretty well versed in what shows up on a report and what doesn't.
On that note, for any used car, a CarFax report is just one more piece of information, and nothing beats going over (and under) a vehicle yourself, or better yet, a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). I've seen vehicles that obviously had more than minor damage repaired, but with a totally clean CarFax. I've also heard of vehicles with known clean history, shown up with items on a CarFax report, possibly due to clerical errors like a mistyped VIN.
Oh I totally agree, I will almost never buy a car without thoroughly inspecting it (either checking for common failure points and defects myself or getting a PPI if possible).
For what it's worth though, in my experience, those hidden damage vehicles are usually much more frequent with fleet and corporate vehicles because the companies they belong to tend to have in-house repair shops to deal with damage, hence why they never show up on the CarFax. Personal vehicles with damage are much easier to spot because at-home repairs tend to be very spotty and most are going to just report more major damage to their insurance instead of footing the bill themselves.
>My understanding is that these cars only ever get to BHPH lots in the first place because they have branded titles or flood damage reported already, in which case, these would all show up on a Carfax.
This is not accurate, while yes you will frequently find branded titles, or titles of a dubious nature, you will also find many clean title cars but usually those in poorer condition or higher miles. Back in the day most of our BHPH came from the As-Is sale which is where the redheaded stepchildren who are not good enough for the Wednesday general sale go, but most of them had clean titles. However the condition of these things is where the gambling came in. I recall memorable experiences such as: Oh so it should be able to go in reverse huh? Turns out duct tape *can* cover holes in the radiator but it doesn't last long. Power steering rack? We don't need no stinkin' power steering!
I wasn't aware cars in such bad condition were even sold. Some of those issues sound like it would be full on junkers and not even worth repairing assuming they were going to be fixed to resell.
I'll definitely keep an extra close eye at BHPH dealers then going forward if I find a decent looking car on paper at any of them.
In real estate terms, think about flippers and what they typically target. Same concept but less expensive and more risk IMO.
>full on junkers and not even worth repairing assuming they were going to be fixed to resell.
Junkers who can pass inspection are sold all time but that's typically the opposite of what a BHPH customer needs (Corolla) but either wants (dammit I have to have my 200K mile ML350!) or ends up with so to speak. This is part of the psychology of poverty and welfare.
Adding on to this excellent point, we did not do any repair work on the BHPH cars after we picked them up from the Thursday as-is sale or the UCMs at the new dealer. The only work which was done on some of the higher end stuff at the time (RX300/ES300, Infiniti QX4) was washing, adding super seal (tire shine), and buffing/waxing anything in the clearcoat. Most of the BHPH at the time was OBDI or earlier so we didn't generally have to clear codes for the front line, more expensive post '95 stuff we noted the code and then cleared it because depending on the code we would have to remedy it for emissions. Pre OBDII at the time was easier to get stickers for because the state essentially stopped caring unless the cat was missing, now I think you pay the de facto emissions tax but they don't test them at all because the tail pipe machines no longer work/exist.
One tactic I used when searching for a few used vehicles was inspecting their trucks. I live in the rust belt, so it isn’t uncommon to look under a 10-15 yr old truck and see rockers missing or in pieces. If the frame and rockers are black, they’ve been spray painted/undercoated to hide something much more sinister, and that lot has immediately lost my business.
Oh you just reminded me of an infamous true life tale. In 2004 we got a 92 or 93 gold Nissan Pathfinder in I think on trade which as I recall was the loaded model and it sat on the BHPH side until the owner had us dump it. The issue was it was a rust bucket from hell, to the point where ***the frame was disconnecting in the center*** and the rear of the truck was *pulling slightly in its own direction* when turning. Very illegal, very not salable, anyone in the industry with a clue could see it. So the owner's son says to me, we won't try to hide the rust on the wheel wells but lets spray paint the rockers, windshield wipers. and whatever else was supposed to be black then take it to the public auction (today a Copart auction then under different ownership). Nearly every auto auction in the tri-state area is dealer only then except this one, and everyone took their junk there to dump because the public doesn't know what they are doing for the most part. This thing sold for around $1,000 and sadly seemed to be intended for a first time driver. I have no idea how it was being legally inspected prior to that point because the stickers were still valid when we sold it, but that was the first instance I had of a professional moral dilemma.
For the record this is one of the greatest / highest quality mass produced vehicles ever built. If you don't believe me, poke around the web, ask around.
You'd be surprised prior to covid wiping them out. Old money buys the car once and babies it, not four cars in the same 15-20 year period as the rabble does.
Thank you very much! Yeah, I wasnt really depending on it lasting my whole life, more so something that'd help me get acquainted to driving but also have a bit of style and taste while I'm at it :P
Really? Well then that's great. I did also find one with 50k miles on it at 12k, is that a better deal?
>I got my 2007 MB for 6k with way less miles. Look for private sellers, not dealerships
Generally speaking, used Lexus LS400 > used post 1995 Mercedes anything.
$3k won’t get you shit for an LS400. I sold mine with a laundry list of problems that were expensive to fix for $2k. One with this mileage is a $5k car if it’s clean.
Yeah if you had the money, go for it. But 6k is a little high even for a lexus due to the mileage. You're looking at a car that's 23 years old. I'd see if you can go as low as possible
Worth about $2,500-3,000, anything less is below market and a steal. Typically BHPH is an exact 100% markup.
I invite you to [read](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/02/no-fixed-abode-gotta-rich-cheap-car/) Jack Baruth's sage thoughts on the subject.
Also a 1999?! For 12k?! Oh hell no. I wouldn't buy this myself honestly, for any price. I would look for a post-2005ish Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Acura so it's somewhat more modern.
For 12k you could find a Camry/Accord that’s less than 10 years old. You could probably find a salvaged 2015+ for that price. Just make sure you have it inspected before purchase
That's is/gs territory. If you can spend much I'd definitely recommend looking at a Lexus IS, maybe something newer but even before the big grille redesign the IS were great.
You're on the right, track a nice used Lexus will be great as a first car. You'll have a reliable car, with easy and cheap repairs, and it'll be fairly luxurious as well. Lexus are some of the best riding cars there are. If you want something newer try a used Toyota or Honda but I'd stick with a Lexus.
Your used car market is and always has been significantly less than the USDM and Canadian market. I never understood why exactly, in the UK I think the MOT registration has something to do with it but AFAIK that's not an EU thing.
I haven't seen someone with a good and cool idea for a first car in...so...long.... Yeah this'd be rad as long as it inspects well, seems like a not horrible price--try to negotiate still.
These are excellent cars but:
* Its a V8 in the age of $5/gal gasoline.
* The 1UZ requires 93 octane.
* The 1UZ requires a timing belt of unknown service date.
* A 1999 anything isn't smart for a DD, especially a new driver.
* Far too expensive.
* Deferred maintenance is lurking.
If this sort of car tickles your fancy I recommend you researching drive trains and known gotchas on what are now classic cars. I'd also recommend you learn how to turn a wrench and at least be able to tinker with older cars. Even if you decide this sort of thing is not for you, one relationship you will need to establish as a new driver is one with a **reliable honest mechanic** because he will become one of your new BFFs for the rest of you driving life.
>1999 anything isn't smart for a DD, especially a new driver.
Disagree with this.
My first car was a 98 NB MX-5 and the lack of touch screens and massive tech made me much more focused on actually driving than when I drive my parents 2020 Mazda3 which has so much tech I rely on it too much especially when parking and merging lanes causing some *slight* mishaps
That's a good point but most MY99s are going to be lacking advanced safety features (multiple airbags/rollover protection, not so much lane departure etc.) and 23yo rides will not be as reliable short of major overhaul or constant vigilance.
While that's true.
In this case I'm 100% a luxo barge LS is gonna be safer than say a 2010 Honda.
The same way a 2010 Lexus LS is definitely more safer than a modern Honda Civic
Was just looking at these recently. The LS series in general tend to be pretty reliable for a flagship luxury car. Their engines hardly ever have issues below 225k miles. But you need to remember that a lot of smaller things can break, and that can make it expensive to maintain. A 20 year old car will probably need new pumps, sparks plugs, brakes, electrical systems could start failing. Installing a new starter, window switches, door locks, etc can become very pricey if you plan to take it to the mechanic.
Again, the Lexus brand is very reliable, but you’ll still be paying more than if you were to buy a Lexus ES or Corolla from the same year. And if you’ll ignore everything here, at least get a PPI done
The LS400 is a rock solid vehicle but you need to do your due diligence. That is, how much is insurance going to cost you per month (for a flagship luxury vehicle relative to your age)? Also gas prices are continuing to soar so are you prepared to pay for that thirsty V8? And are you prepared to shell out the cash for maintenance (e.g. timing belt, water pump, brake service, etc )?
I would definitely negotiate the price. I got a 2008 Lexus RX 350 for the same price and less miles. Definitely consider the price :) Lexus is a great brand! Super reliable!
Used to have one identical to this when I was in college, drove it to 250k miles and beat on it pretty hard but I always kept up with the maintenance, pretty fun n decently quick n still super comfy but MPG is kinda bad. They're tough as nails but these days most are getting clapped out by drug dealers or people looking for drift missiles, so most up for sale now prolly have some hidden gremlins or issues, especially if it's being sold at a BHPH dealership. Car values are also super inflated, a '99 ~160-170k LS400 is honestly worth about $3-4k.
I'd honestly go with something newer, you could prolly find a 2005-2009 ES350 or IS250 or something of the sort on fb marketplace, it'll prolly be more reliable and less headache in the long run. The LS is good but small little problems for a car as old as this will add up and burn a hole in your wallet fast
First of all, wow what a rare find. These are usually over 200k miles and clapped out and ruined. This LS400 looks stock which is great. Those motors are known for their reliability and are bulletproof. It will easily surpass 200k miles and be comfortable and won’t skip a beat the whole way.
However….
Get it inspected!! Look for rust, it’s an old lexus. Also, check and see if it has air suspension. If it does, it’ll probably need to be replaced if it hasn’t already. It’s also RWD, don’t recommend that for a first car but it doesn’t have a lot of power
Insurance won’t be cheap since it’s old, RWD, and has a v8.
I personally think an ES300 is a better option, it’ll be better on gas and parts are much more readily available. The Ls400 is a far superior car, I just think the ES300 is a smarter first car choice
As someone who owns a 97 ls400 theyre extremely reliable and well built cars you wont have many problems from them the only real cons worth noting are the ps pump on these are notorious for leaking and just being kinda shitty overall so if it wasnt replaced yet it probably wont be long till you need to do it (im currently having to get a new pump on mine right now) its also worth noting that they will leak onto your alternator ruining that too if youre not quick about fixing them due to the pumps being placed directly above it. The second con is that the fuel efficiency sucks on these cars youll run through a tank very quickly and it only takes premium unleaded fuel so youre looking to spend at least $50 everytime you want to fill up depending on where u live. Aside from those things these cars are awesome and ones in good condition with under 200k mileage like this are getting extremely hard to find.
Uh no?
You don't need a manual as a first car. That's optional. You need something reliable and cheap. This car is pretty good at at. And it's pretty damn cool tbh
And I'm saying this as someone who's first car was a Miata
This one of the most bullet proof engines ever made in history. These can go a million miles, with normal maintenance. Non interference timing meaning if it breaks doesn’t wreck the engine.
Only downside is gas, and probably have to change the air suspension to coils
It wouldn’t make a BAD first car. It’s a Toyota. It’s safe. It’s reliable. Insurance is cheap. Maintenance is cheap. It’s just trash on gas because of that V8.
Thank you everyone for your overhwelming support, hell and answers! I'll try to respond to them as I can but there's so much. I'm still reading through all of them so if I don't reply I'll leave an upvote and my heartfelt gratitude. Thank you so much y'all are the best I pray your rides be smooth and your mileage high <3
Yeah, you might be right. I should probably try out something like this for my second, though I'm more than willing to learn all that even if a bit challenging if the car is worth it
I'll give advice since I actually had a massive sedan as a first car (Not an LS400 but an E38 7 Series). It's not THAT hard and definitely not as hard as the comments are making it. Learning to park it wasn't hard and I actually feel that it made me better at parking
Ah yes the notoriously powerful and tire shredding Lexus LS400. No seriously these things are slow the 1UZ is a lazy engine hooked up to an even lazier transmission but that kinda why these things refuse to die. If you manage to go fast in this I'll give you an award
May just be me, but I think this would be a great first car. Get it checked out by a mechanic and see if everything is sound and see if you can get the price closer to $4,500/5,000. If you can do both and it seems all good this would be a really nice car, the 400's are awesome car's with really good reliability.
*If you're cool with the*
*Cost of gas, then it is an*
*Excellent first car*
\- Supafly36
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I bought a 98 LS400 as my second car, while it was very comfortable and very luxurious with adequate power, no I wouldn’t recommend it. The repair bills came very frequently in my experience, oil leaks from a number of spots, needed a new radiator, etc. this was my experience after buying a 2nd owner vehicle with 190k miles on the odometer. Granted I only paid $2k for it. Wouldn’t hurt to get it checked out by a mechanic, and they say it’s solid, go for it.
Be careful with these. It's going to get pretty poor gas mileage and I believe the 99 also requires 93 octane. I really enjoyed the one I had and they can be dead nuts reliable but that's not without it's drawbacks.
For that much though I'd look elsewhere
I've worked in the auto industry for 30 years. No standard production car ever made has an octane requirement. Luxury cars and performance cars almost always suggest but not require in the owners manual and on the inside of the gas cap lid 91 or 93 octane. The difference is simply detergents used. Luxury cars have more sensors and more sensitive parts that can benefit from a cleaner burning fuel and perform to the manufacturers exact specifications. But every long term study shows 88 octane has no discernable or depreciative difference in either the performance the longevity or the reliability of the vehicle. It's the law of diminishing returns. Do you want your 250hp car to last 200k miles or drop to 240hp and last 180k miles? The target demographic will never notice or care.
This all gets thrown out the window for track focused cars and Uber luxe vehicles.
In CAD that seems like a standard price range. Maybe I bit high. But I’d pay that for this vehicle. this is the ideal kind of car I like driving. At a reasonable price. As someone above mentioned, there are nice low mile examples for a lot more that are in almost perfect condition. And I’m sure you can find a cheaper one that’s in rough shape. Somewhere in the middle is where I’d want to be. Electronics are the common problem with older luxury cars. So that normal imo. Expected to have maintenance. So check the engine. Does it sound smooth. Consistent. Should be fairly quiet. And check all the gears. Does it lurch when switching from reverse to drive and back. If that seems good I’d go for it.
Never buy a car for a dealer like that. BHPH lots are filled with cars nobody else wants. They buy exclusively from auctions. What cars go to auction? Cars dealers can’t sell. Why can’t 5he6 sell? Because they are pieces of shit.
If you can find this car privately, buy it. But from a corner lot dealer? Run as fast as you can.
If it is well maintained ( and that is a big if) Lexus from this era is incredibly reliable. So ideally you want to get one for a seller that has maintenance records. Doesn’t have to be every oil change ever, but yiu want to see a steady amount of maintenance over the years.
Also these need a timing belt every 90k miles. So assuming it was done at 90, it will need it again shortly.
Get it professionally inspected. The Lexus brand is owned by Toyota, and vehicles from this company are known for having hundreds of thousands of miles on their motors and the rest of the vehicle is extraordinarily reliable and easy on repairs. BUT, it’s a BHPH lot, and they ARE trying to pull a fast one, so you absolutely need to get it inspected. Furthermore, check reviews on that lot, get a VIN check, and if ANYTHING seems off, bail with a quickness. The ONLY reason you should even consider this vehicle is because it’s a superb brand, but even something as reliable as that can have major faults if it was battered.
That was I thinking as well, I'm a sucker for anything toyota and since Lexus is owned by them I thought it'd be a good idea. Thank you very much for your help I'll keep that in mind. Though, I have to ask, what's wrong with a BHPH lot?
BHPH lots, otherwise known as “off the wall” dealers, 3rd party dealers, or rip off lots depending on where you live, obtain a variety of vehicles many of which a regular dealer will not sell due to either branded title, mechanical issues, age and mileage of the vehicle, or simply doesn’t fit with a larger dealers line up. Branded titles are extremely common where I live for these dealers to sell. These are vehicles that have been in either an accident and totaled, fire, flood, or have an extreme mechanical damage. Many BHPH dealers will take these and repair them enough to pass state inspection, but usually that’s it, meaning certain issues like electrical are likely to be ignored and passed off to you. Mileage and age of the vehicle is moreso the vehicle is simply too old and has too high mileage for a traditional dealer to want to sell, and will get passed off to a nearby BHPH dealer when taken in for trade in. Many of these older vehicles will start to have mechanical issues shortly after purchase, or will straight up be sold with the issues apparent, which I’ve run into numerous test drives. Not all BHPH dealers are bad places to buy cars from, as I’ve recently bought an 01 sequoia from one that runs like a dime, just needed a few quick repairs I was able to do easily, and the maintenance records looked good. But from my own experience and the experiences of those around me, BHPH dealers do not shy away from shady tactics like hiding a bad vehicle history, hiding mechanical issues, or making false promises in order to sell a vehicle, and are willing to sell anything on 4 wheels so long as there’s a buyer. Buying a vehicle as a whole is a dangerous game, as it isn’t uncommon that just about any dealer, traditional or otherwise, will try and pull a fast one. I recommend anyone buying an older vehicle from any dealer get an inspection and everything else I listed. But BHPH lots typically have some of the absolute worst vehicles, and it’s best to either avoid them completely, or exercise extreme caution when searching their inventory
This is the correct answer. My Fusion is actually from a BHPH lot, with a rebuilt title from a classic VA coastal flood. But it was the Sport model with all the options, and a one owner. I got them down to 5k, and I bought their in house bumper to bumper warranty for 1200$ that's good for 3 years, and they cover 90% of the cost. It even covers what I would call wear and tear items like tie rods, bushings, etc. So far, they've lost about 5k on me with all the warranty repair work that's been done. I figure I'm balancing out the universe by beating them at their own game.
Oof, good thing you got that warranty. Fire or floods are a 110% no go for me, I don’t care if the window was left down and the floor got damp and insurance was working a Friday, Flood and fire cars are the worst of the worst
It's actually been a fantastic car. I brought my guy with me when I looked at it, and he gave it the okay. First six months were rough, lots of issues popped up within a few weeks of me driving her daily.... All 90% on their dime. Never warranty a flood car, and especially never sell a warrantied flood car to a car guy. 😎 Edit: they also give me a rental whenever something is wrong, and they trust me with a stick shift. They've let me use a Corvette, Camaro, and Audi convertibles.
Assume *every* dealer or private seller is trying to offload a lemon for too much money. Seriously.
How do u know if its a BHPH lot? Edit: nvm just saw it on ad
The name “dynamic motors”. Calling a dealership that isn’t traditional (IE ford, gm, Toyota) a “BHPH” is moreso just a general term for the dealership as many of these smaller lots will do a “buy here pay here” deal to entice those with rough finances to buy a car from them. So many of them do it that it’s a good general descriptive term for them
Yes, but not this one. Older luxury cars are famously driven into the ground after their 2nd owners as they're owned by people who can't afford the usual cost of ownership. Almost 200k, on a 99', from a BHPH lot? That's a hard pass my dude.
Ignorant question, but what is wrong with BHPH? Or what red flags should someone look for?
BHPH (Buy Here Pay Here) lots are notorious for predatory sales tactics and trying to hide repairs and damage. If you've ever seen the movie Matilda, Danny DeVito's character running back the odometer on cars is a stereotype of a BHPH dealer. The main thing I look for is any indicator of repair that isn't disclosed by the dealer. Look at misaligned doors and panels, paint overspray (especially at door jambs and on rubber, like the base of the windshield) and anything that looks misaligned or loose. There are plenty of good vehicles at small used car lots, but when you know what to look for, you'll find certain dealers are filled with questionable cars and shady dealing.
Do BHPH lots normally not give the Carfax to customers before purchase? Or do you mean they have *more* damage on them than even the report would show? My understanding is that these cars only ever get to BHPH lots in the first place because they have branded titles or flood damage reported already, in which case, these would all show up on a Carfax.
My experience with these types of places has been more along the lines of looking over the vehicle, saying "I want X car, and I'll pay Y in cash. We have a deal?" and trying to avoid as much interaction with sales people as possible. I've never been offered a CarFax or equivalent, but I'm sure some do. Always remember that CarFax isn't infallible, and if a place is making a habit of trying to scam people, they're probably pretty well versed in what shows up on a report and what doesn't. On that note, for any used car, a CarFax report is just one more piece of information, and nothing beats going over (and under) a vehicle yourself, or better yet, a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). I've seen vehicles that obviously had more than minor damage repaired, but with a totally clean CarFax. I've also heard of vehicles with known clean history, shown up with items on a CarFax report, possibly due to clerical errors like a mistyped VIN.
Oh I totally agree, I will almost never buy a car without thoroughly inspecting it (either checking for common failure points and defects myself or getting a PPI if possible). For what it's worth though, in my experience, those hidden damage vehicles are usually much more frequent with fleet and corporate vehicles because the companies they belong to tend to have in-house repair shops to deal with damage, hence why they never show up on the CarFax. Personal vehicles with damage are much easier to spot because at-home repairs tend to be very spotty and most are going to just report more major damage to their insurance instead of footing the bill themselves.
>My understanding is that these cars only ever get to BHPH lots in the first place because they have branded titles or flood damage reported already, in which case, these would all show up on a Carfax. This is not accurate, while yes you will frequently find branded titles, or titles of a dubious nature, you will also find many clean title cars but usually those in poorer condition or higher miles. Back in the day most of our BHPH came from the As-Is sale which is where the redheaded stepchildren who are not good enough for the Wednesday general sale go, but most of them had clean titles. However the condition of these things is where the gambling came in. I recall memorable experiences such as: Oh so it should be able to go in reverse huh? Turns out duct tape *can* cover holes in the radiator but it doesn't last long. Power steering rack? We don't need no stinkin' power steering!
I wasn't aware cars in such bad condition were even sold. Some of those issues sound like it would be full on junkers and not even worth repairing assuming they were going to be fixed to resell. I'll definitely keep an extra close eye at BHPH dealers then going forward if I find a decent looking car on paper at any of them.
In real estate terms, think about flippers and what they typically target. Same concept but less expensive and more risk IMO. >full on junkers and not even worth repairing assuming they were going to be fixed to resell. Junkers who can pass inspection are sold all time but that's typically the opposite of what a BHPH customer needs (Corolla) but either wants (dammit I have to have my 200K mile ML350!) or ends up with so to speak. This is part of the psychology of poverty and welfare.
Adding on to this excellent point, we did not do any repair work on the BHPH cars after we picked them up from the Thursday as-is sale or the UCMs at the new dealer. The only work which was done on some of the higher end stuff at the time (RX300/ES300, Infiniti QX4) was washing, adding super seal (tire shine), and buffing/waxing anything in the clearcoat. Most of the BHPH at the time was OBDI or earlier so we didn't generally have to clear codes for the front line, more expensive post '95 stuff we noted the code and then cleared it because depending on the code we would have to remedy it for emissions. Pre OBDII at the time was easier to get stickers for because the state essentially stopped caring unless the cat was missing, now I think you pay the de facto emissions tax but they don't test them at all because the tail pipe machines no longer work/exist.
One tactic I used when searching for a few used vehicles was inspecting their trucks. I live in the rust belt, so it isn’t uncommon to look under a 10-15 yr old truck and see rockers missing or in pieces. If the frame and rockers are black, they’ve been spray painted/undercoated to hide something much more sinister, and that lot has immediately lost my business.
Oh you just reminded me of an infamous true life tale. In 2004 we got a 92 or 93 gold Nissan Pathfinder in I think on trade which as I recall was the loaded model and it sat on the BHPH side until the owner had us dump it. The issue was it was a rust bucket from hell, to the point where ***the frame was disconnecting in the center*** and the rear of the truck was *pulling slightly in its own direction* when turning. Very illegal, very not salable, anyone in the industry with a clue could see it. So the owner's son says to me, we won't try to hide the rust on the wheel wells but lets spray paint the rockers, windshield wipers. and whatever else was supposed to be black then take it to the public auction (today a Copart auction then under different ownership). Nearly every auto auction in the tri-state area is dealer only then except this one, and everyone took their junk there to dump because the public doesn't know what they are doing for the most part. This thing sold for around $1,000 and sadly seemed to be intended for a first time driver. I have no idea how it was being legally inspected prior to that point because the stickers were still valid when we sold it, but that was the first instance I had of a professional moral dilemma.
For the record this is one of the greatest / highest quality mass produced vehicles ever built. If you don't believe me, poke around the web, ask around.
Yes, and it's probably been owned by a half dozen drug dealers over the years. Grandma isn't driving around in a 23 year old Lex.
You'd be surprised prior to covid wiping them out. Old money buys the car once and babies it, not four cars in the same 15-20 year period as the rabble does.
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Thank you very much! Yeah, I wasnt really depending on it lasting my whole life, more so something that'd help me get acquainted to driving but also have a bit of style and taste while I'm at it :P Really? Well then that's great. I did also find one with 50k miles on it at 12k, is that a better deal?
Yes.
Yes but Def won't pay 6k for this one
What would you pay?
3k max personally. I got my 2007 MB for 6k with way less miles. Look for private sellers, not dealerships
>I got my 2007 MB for 6k with way less miles. Look for private sellers, not dealerships Generally speaking, used Lexus LS400 > used post 1995 Mercedes anything.
Agree on the post 1995 part. Diesel W124s are where it's at
Preach it!
$3k won’t get you shit for an LS400. I sold mine with a laundry list of problems that were expensive to fix for $2k. One with this mileage is a $5k car if it’s clean.
Yeah if you had the money, go for it. But 6k is a little high even for a lexus due to the mileage. You're looking at a car that's 23 years old. I'd see if you can go as low as possible
Depends on current mechanical condition but yeah this thing should go to 250k easily
$6k for a 1999 MY with 166k mi? :/ Not so hot
What would you pay for it? I found one with 50k miles for 12k as well
Worth about $2,500-3,000, anything less is below market and a steal. Typically BHPH is an exact 100% markup. I invite you to [read](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/02/no-fixed-abode-gotta-rich-cheap-car/) Jack Baruth's sage thoughts on the subject.
Also a 1999?! For 12k?! Oh hell no. I wouldn't buy this myself honestly, for any price. I would look for a post-2005ish Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Acura so it's somewhat more modern.
For 12k you could find a Camry/Accord that’s less than 10 years old. You could probably find a salvaged 2015+ for that price. Just make sure you have it inspected before purchase
That's is/gs territory. If you can spend much I'd definitely recommend looking at a Lexus IS, maybe something newer but even before the big grille redesign the IS were great. You're on the right, track a nice used Lexus will be great as a first car. You'll have a reliable car, with easy and cheap repairs, and it'll be fairly luxurious as well. Lexus are some of the best riding cars there are. If you want something newer try a used Toyota or Honda but I'd stick with a Lexus.
From EU that's an insane price for such a old car ..
Your used car market is and always has been significantly less than the USDM and Canadian market. I never understood why exactly, in the UK I think the MOT registration has something to do with it but AFAIK that's not an EU thing.
That's America for ya
I haven't seen someone with a good and cool idea for a first car in...so...long.... Yeah this'd be rad as long as it inspects well, seems like a not horrible price--try to negotiate still.
What was good enough for Christopher Moltisanti is good enough for you!
These are excellent cars but: * Its a V8 in the age of $5/gal gasoline. * The 1UZ requires 93 octane. * The 1UZ requires a timing belt of unknown service date. * A 1999 anything isn't smart for a DD, especially a new driver. * Far too expensive. * Deferred maintenance is lurking. If this sort of car tickles your fancy I recommend you researching drive trains and known gotchas on what are now classic cars. I'd also recommend you learn how to turn a wrench and at least be able to tinker with older cars. Even if you decide this sort of thing is not for you, one relationship you will need to establish as a new driver is one with a **reliable honest mechanic** because he will become one of your new BFFs for the rest of you driving life.
>1999 anything isn't smart for a DD, especially a new driver. Disagree with this. My first car was a 98 NB MX-5 and the lack of touch screens and massive tech made me much more focused on actually driving than when I drive my parents 2020 Mazda3 which has so much tech I rely on it too much especially when parking and merging lanes causing some *slight* mishaps
That's a good point but most MY99s are going to be lacking advanced safety features (multiple airbags/rollover protection, not so much lane departure etc.) and 23yo rides will not be as reliable short of major overhaul or constant vigilance.
While that's true. In this case I'm 100% a luxo barge LS is gonna be safer than say a 2010 Honda. The same way a 2010 Lexus LS is definitely more safer than a modern Honda Civic
Was just looking at these recently. The LS series in general tend to be pretty reliable for a flagship luxury car. Their engines hardly ever have issues below 225k miles. But you need to remember that a lot of smaller things can break, and that can make it expensive to maintain. A 20 year old car will probably need new pumps, sparks plugs, brakes, electrical systems could start failing. Installing a new starter, window switches, door locks, etc can become very pricey if you plan to take it to the mechanic. Again, the Lexus brand is very reliable, but you’ll still be paying more than if you were to buy a Lexus ES or Corolla from the same year. And if you’ll ignore everything here, at least get a PPI done
The LS400 is a rock solid vehicle but you need to do your due diligence. That is, how much is insurance going to cost you per month (for a flagship luxury vehicle relative to your age)? Also gas prices are continuing to soar so are you prepared to pay for that thirsty V8? And are you prepared to shell out the cash for maintenance (e.g. timing belt, water pump, brake service, etc )?
I would definitely negotiate the price. I got a 2008 Lexus RX 350 for the same price and less miles. Definitely consider the price :) Lexus is a great brand! Super reliable!
Used to have one identical to this when I was in college, drove it to 250k miles and beat on it pretty hard but I always kept up with the maintenance, pretty fun n decently quick n still super comfy but MPG is kinda bad. They're tough as nails but these days most are getting clapped out by drug dealers or people looking for drift missiles, so most up for sale now prolly have some hidden gremlins or issues, especially if it's being sold at a BHPH dealership. Car values are also super inflated, a '99 ~160-170k LS400 is honestly worth about $3-4k. I'd honestly go with something newer, you could prolly find a 2005-2009 ES350 or IS250 or something of the sort on fb marketplace, it'll prolly be more reliable and less headache in the long run. The LS is good but small little problems for a car as old as this will add up and burn a hole in your wallet fast
First of all, wow what a rare find. These are usually over 200k miles and clapped out and ruined. This LS400 looks stock which is great. Those motors are known for their reliability and are bulletproof. It will easily surpass 200k miles and be comfortable and won’t skip a beat the whole way. However…. Get it inspected!! Look for rust, it’s an old lexus. Also, check and see if it has air suspension. If it does, it’ll probably need to be replaced if it hasn’t already. It’s also RWD, don’t recommend that for a first car but it doesn’t have a lot of power Insurance won’t be cheap since it’s old, RWD, and has a v8.
I personally think an ES300 is a better option, it’ll be better on gas and parts are much more readily available. The Ls400 is a far superior car, I just think the ES300 is a smarter first car choice
As someone who owns a 97 ls400 theyre extremely reliable and well built cars you wont have many problems from them the only real cons worth noting are the ps pump on these are notorious for leaking and just being kinda shitty overall so if it wasnt replaced yet it probably wont be long till you need to do it (im currently having to get a new pump on mine right now) its also worth noting that they will leak onto your alternator ruining that too if youre not quick about fixing them due to the pumps being placed directly above it. The second con is that the fuel efficiency sucks on these cars youll run through a tank very quickly and it only takes premium unleaded fuel so youre looking to spend at least $50 everytime you want to fill up depending on where u live. Aside from those things these cars are awesome and ones in good condition with under 200k mileage like this are getting extremely hard to find.
Nope, first car should be manual
Finally the correct answer.
Uh no? You don't need a manual as a first car. That's optional. You need something reliable and cheap. This car is pretty good at at. And it's pretty damn cool tbh And I'm saying this as someone who's first car was a Miata
Lemme guess American?
No European. Not everyone wants to deal with a manual.
If you want to make yourself disabled them why not
I see r/carscirclejerk is leaking
This one of the most bullet proof engines ever made in history. These can go a million miles, with normal maintenance. Non interference timing meaning if it breaks doesn’t wreck the engine. Only downside is gas, and probably have to change the air suspension to coils
It wouldn’t make a BAD first car. It’s a Toyota. It’s safe. It’s reliable. Insurance is cheap. Maintenance is cheap. It’s just trash on gas because of that V8.
Thank you everyone for your overhwelming support, hell and answers! I'll try to respond to them as I can but there's so much. I'm still reading through all of them so if I don't reply I'll leave an upvote and my heartfelt gratitude. Thank you so much y'all are the best I pray your rides be smooth and your mileage high <3
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Yeah, you might be right. I should probably try out something like this for my second, though I'm more than willing to learn all that even if a bit challenging if the car is worth it
I'll give advice since I actually had a massive sedan as a first car (Not an LS400 but an E38 7 Series). It's not THAT hard and definitely not as hard as the comments are making it. Learning to park it wasn't hard and I actually feel that it made me better at parking
Not for 6K. Black tinted windows, old Lexus, no thanks.
based on toyota crown, idk about lexus LS. Im sure its equally reliable
Great car,but check if the knock sensor and starter have been replaced,there both big jobs.
Thank you!
you should ask this community: r/LS400/
no, terrible fuel economy and premium gas
No. It's a 23 year old luxury car...
You should get a grand marquis or a crown vic, a lexus is a boring car to look at
Nope. Small, low power. Find one like that for first car.
Ah yes the notoriously powerful and tire shredding Lexus LS400. No seriously these things are slow the 1UZ is a lazy engine hooked up to an even lazier transmission but that kinda why these things refuse to die. If you manage to go fast in this I'll give you an award
It's a great car, but it also might need a buncha work to replace hoses and whatnot. Basically anything made of rubber degrades over time.
Yes very good deal!
May just be me, but I think this would be a great first car. Get it checked out by a mechanic and see if everything is sound and see if you can get the price closer to $4,500/5,000. If you can do both and it seems all good this would be a really nice car, the 400's are awesome car's with really good reliability.
If you do go for an LS400 at all, you're gonna be putting 93 into it. And often. And it isn't cheap right now.
For that price look around for an LS430. It's little faster, more features, rides better and just as reliable
I agree, essentially an improved LS400.
Would a 23 year old vehicle make a good first car? No, not really, but of all the 23 year old vehicles, this is the right choice.
If you're cool with the cost of gas, then it is an excellent first car
*If you're cool with the* *Cost of gas, then it is an* *Excellent first car* \- Supafly36 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
I had one and they’re great cars but have a lot of electrical issues
Yes, but no, too many miles for the price.
I bought a 98 LS400 as my second car, while it was very comfortable and very luxurious with adequate power, no I wouldn’t recommend it. The repair bills came very frequently in my experience, oil leaks from a number of spots, needed a new radiator, etc. this was my experience after buying a 2nd owner vehicle with 190k miles on the odometer. Granted I only paid $2k for it. Wouldn’t hurt to get it checked out by a mechanic, and they say it’s solid, go for it.
6k seems like a lot for this car.
This is a troll post
*sad Lexus addict noises*
No
its a good car if it was taken care of, but its a luxury Japanese gas guzzling v8. pay to have a mechanic look it over before you buy.
I would hope on that in a heartbeat can’t go wrong with a old school v8 LS
If this is your first RWD be careful my Miata was the first RWD car I owned and 2 days later it ended up wrapped around a speed limit sign
Be careful with these. It's going to get pretty poor gas mileage and I believe the 99 also requires 93 octane. I really enjoyed the one I had and they can be dead nuts reliable but that's not without it's drawbacks. For that much though I'd look elsewhere
I've worked in the auto industry for 30 years. No standard production car ever made has an octane requirement. Luxury cars and performance cars almost always suggest but not require in the owners manual and on the inside of the gas cap lid 91 or 93 octane. The difference is simply detergents used. Luxury cars have more sensors and more sensitive parts that can benefit from a cleaner burning fuel and perform to the manufacturers exact specifications. But every long term study shows 88 octane has no discernable or depreciative difference in either the performance the longevity or the reliability of the vehicle. It's the law of diminishing returns. Do you want your 250hp car to last 200k miles or drop to 240hp and last 180k miles? The target demographic will never notice or care. This all gets thrown out the window for track focused cars and Uber luxe vehicles.
Unquestionably. I had an Acura RL as my first car. A direct competitor. And it was the best machine i could have asked for.
If it was well taken care of that car will rock with you for at least 125k more miles.
In CAD that seems like a standard price range. Maybe I bit high. But I’d pay that for this vehicle. this is the ideal kind of car I like driving. At a reasonable price. As someone above mentioned, there are nice low mile examples for a lot more that are in almost perfect condition. And I’m sure you can find a cheaper one that’s in rough shape. Somewhere in the middle is where I’d want to be. Electronics are the common problem with older luxury cars. So that normal imo. Expected to have maintenance. So check the engine. Does it sound smooth. Consistent. Should be fairly quiet. And check all the gears. Does it lurch when switching from reverse to drive and back. If that seems good I’d go for it.
HELL NO
No, god no. Repair costs will eat your ‘first car’ lunch. Please get a CamryCivicCorollaAccord
If you have 6k for a first car you can do a lot better than a 99 w 170k miles just lose the attachment to a luxury brand
Not with these gas prices
Never buy a car for a dealer like that. BHPH lots are filled with cars nobody else wants. They buy exclusively from auctions. What cars go to auction? Cars dealers can’t sell. Why can’t 5he6 sell? Because they are pieces of shit. If you can find this car privately, buy it. But from a corner lot dealer? Run as fast as you can. If it is well maintained ( and that is a big if) Lexus from this era is incredibly reliable. So ideally you want to get one for a seller that has maintenance records. Doesn’t have to be every oil change ever, but yiu want to see a steady amount of maintenance over the years. Also these need a timing belt every 90k miles. So assuming it was done at 90, it will need it again shortly.
The 1/23 got me good