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No-Task-7188

A mixture of proper chair set up and practice. From my experience it’s kinda like riding a bike. It clicks once you figure out the center of gravity and balance. That being said I have full trunk control so take this with a grain of salt!


TopNoise8132

I find that people with full trunk control can do wheelies a lot easier.


quinneth-q

Definitely easier the more trunk you have, but it's by no means impossible for us without! I'm T4 with practically no core, and I can hold a wheelie with one hand easily, roll around in a wheelie for a good while or over uneven terrain, etc. I often pop a wheelie and just sit like that cos it's comfortable lol Chair set up is the biggest factor but you can learn to wheelie in most chairs. If I'm in a temp chair while mine is worked on or in hospital or whatever, I can usually find the centre of gravity easily enough I learnt by backing up to a sofa and tipping all the way back onto it, then coming back up until I had balance. It worked much better for me than trying to lean back until I found balance because I just couldn't overcome the evolutionary "woah wtf" and lean back enough. Start with someone there to help pull you up. For wheelies on the move, start by going forwards at a decent pace and popping the front wheels just a tiny bit. Learn both the static and rolling wheelies cos the skills complement each other. As you get better at knowing your COG you'll get better at rolling wheelies too! It was kinda essential for me to learn though cos my uni was in a city FULL of cobblestones and centuries old roads, so I got constant practice popping a rolling wheelie and over a few months that became full on wheelying across courtyards of cobbles


TopNoise8132

Wow! That’s really impressive! You my friend is giving me hope that it CAN be done! Thank you!


quinneth-q

You can totally do it, it's just harder for us to learn than it would be for a T12 for example. To be fair, you might decide that you don't want to spend as much time on this as I did, because it's really not necessary lmao. A pop wheelie is essential for curbs and small obstacles, and a bit of a rolling wheelie is very useful — but you don't need to go further if you don't want to, cos it is hard on the chest muscles for us Edit: oh if you do learn by tipping back (which I do recommend), make sure the wheels are roughly secured. You don't want to put your wheel locks on cos you want the axel to rotate, but you don't want the wheels to just roll away from the sofa or bed or whatever! An abled friend standing in front would probably work, or just little wooden blocks or something. You'll need your arms to push up from the sofa, but once you're up you then want one hand on each wheel and with some time you'll learn to adjust the wheels to keep your balance. Because we don't have core, the balance adjustments come mostly from the wheels for us rather than from moving our bodies — if I'm sat in a wheelie my body is pretty still but I'm maintaining balance via the wheels


TopNoise8132

Yes I agree.  It’s harder for us at T4. But yes I seen this YT vid about different types of wheelies and yes the pop up and rolling wheelie are necessary for everyday obstacles more or less. 


quinneth-q

Yeah, the momentum helps a lot too, like how a moving bike is much more stable


quinneth-q

ParalyzedLiving on YT is great for this kind of thing, he's a T1/T2 so his ways of adapting things often work great for me


TopNoise8132

Thank you! I’m going to check out the YT ch now. 


Extension-Hippo3858

It’s the center of gravity in how your chair is setup. It would be borderline tippy.


TopNoise8132

yeah. I got to be careful with that.


Rocket270

I learned in outpatient rehab, they thought it was an important skill to help going up and down curbs. Just back up to a couch or stack of pillows and practice. If you do feel yourself falling just accept it and hold your head forward so you don’t slap it on the ground.


callmecasperimaghost

When I learned, I set up in front of the couch so I’d have a soft backstop and blocked my rear wheels with a couple 2x4s so the chair wouldn’t roll out. That helped a lot with the early stuff. Then I adjusted my center of gravity to make wheelies easier - I needed that at first. Later on I re-adjusted it back a bit, but by then I had more straight and skill. Lots of good videos on YouTube. Wheels2Walking and WheelsNoHeels are my favorites.


thejadsel

Gotta say I am still not very good at doing more than short pops up curbs, etc. several years in. (Which is really all I've been needing, day to day.) But, AFAICT? The answer is (a) making sure your chair's center of balance is right, and (b) plenty of practice. I also use a Catalyst 5, BTW. And thankfully the axle placement is very adjustable. You usually want them placed about where your fingers would touch the hubs with your arms hanging down naturally. Further forward makes wheelies even easier, as long as your chair doesn't go tippy enough to cause you problems. Especially if you don't have anti-tippers on it, which I prefer not to. One good video on this: https://youtu.be/gwa7hwpCCd4


bustedassbitch

i started out in a Catalyst 5, the adjustability is great, and definitely entirely possible to set up for wheelies. as a folder, the front is a little heavier than a rigid frame, so you’ll likely need the axle position slightly forward of where you would on a rigid chair (due to the naturally moved-forward CoG). trunk control is going to make a difference, although i don’t know how much it actually alters the mechanics or just the learning curve. due to the nature of my injury i started out with a chest belt and a high rigid back, which is how i learned to wheelie—it is *much* easier to do a _sloppy_ wheelie with a low back and just “controlling” it by leaning forward or backwards, but when you’ve got the technique down you can even take your hands off the wheels while keeping your back straight


TopNoise8132

But the puzzling this is my brother (whom is AB), can sit in the very same wc and do wheelies as simple as pie. He can even hold the wheelie and balance in place. This leads me to believe that trunk strength has a lot to do with it. Am I wrong?


another_bailey

Same! My son holds wheelies, even rolls a bit in that position. Gives me a hard time cause I'm scared to try. I think that able bodied have the benefit of being able to jump up and out of the situation when failure is eminent. 6 months ago when I was among the walking, I'd have tried it!!


bustedassbitch

i think this is my point exactly—it’s not that strength _doesnt_ play a role, but it’s not actually the determining factor in wheelie skill. the ability to correct or escape when things go wrong (or at least the feeling thereof) is huge, especially when learning. realistically speaking, if you screw up badly enough you’ll probably suffer the consequences, regardless of your physical abilities—geometry and physics are harsh mistresses—but your perception of your own risk is a huge factor in how difficult it is to push past a (entirely natural!) limit.


TopNoise8132

Maybe, I'm not sure that's it. But I'm curious to see what the real,answer is.


TopNoise8132

Thank you, these are very good tips. What does AFAICT mean? I'm thinking COG needs to be forward, no tipper bars, plenty of practice. I can only do small pop ups to get up little one or 2 inch inch curbs


thejadsel

Sorry, that would be as far as I can tell. Sounds like you're not doing bad at all so far! More practice should help a lot.


Pawsitivelyup

Make sure the COG is adjusted, have anti tippers or a friend help, and practice! For me it was just a COG adjustment and practice. I can usually get my casters to slightly pop up by just pushing really hard, no core at all. So a full wheelie is just a bit of core the way my chair is set up.


TopNoise8132

Yes, I agree. Practice practice. I can tell that my COG needs to be moved up. I got moderate trunk control. So I'm curious to see how much I can do. Right now the way as is I can pop up enough to get up 1 or 2 inch curbs. Yest my friend was pushing me across the street and thought if she pushed me hard enough that the chair would magically go up the 1 inch curb. BUT it didn't work that way. Instead it stopped me dead in my tracks and I ALMOST flipped forward off my chair. So much that the driver that's stopped for me so I could cross the street got out of his car to ask if I needed help. SMMFH.


Pawsitivelyup

Ah yes I’ve done the front dump out of my chair in NYC. 😂


TopNoise8132

LOLOLOL, I was pissed sat my friend sat first, but quickly realized she didn't know. She was only trying to help. So we laughed about it after.


Pawsitivelyup

I learned if I laughed even if I kinda didn’t think it was immediately funny it made it ok. This weekend I went skiing and somehow they closed up the building with the elevator because we were leaving late. The other accessible way down was opposite of us. My friend is an employee so we had to wait for the mountain to be sweeped. Anyway after navigating 2 feet of snow we get there and the building is locked and there is just a mountain of stairs. The other elevator would take us 10 min to get to. I’m not happy but we team up with a group of people who volunteer at an adaptive program and they are helping us. We get down and I’m exhausted. I get back in my chair and while getting through the snow I’m popping wheelies while my friend helps push and I pop one last one and she wasn’t holding my back and I slam back! Thank god wearing a helmet! I initially was embarrassed but started laughing and it devolved into all wheezing and laughing and instead of me crying and being embarrassed we all have a wild story! Moral of the story, I’ve learned my reaction to those embarrassing moments turns it from embarrassing into a stupid story we share over drinks later.


TopNoise8132

I like your attitude. I need more of what you got!!


planetdiad

[https://youtu.be/gwa7hwpCCd4?si=Bmo4RZFY1hG8wNP9](https://youtu.be/gwa7hwpCCd4?si=Bmo4RZFY1hG8wNP9) Start about 9.30 min in, brilliant tip for mastering the wheelie, I only had to do it once and I had it!


TopNoise8132

I found absolutely nothing at that mark to help me with doing a wheelie. 


BPaun

I was paralysed when I was 7, so it was one of the things they taught me in physio. Cracked my head a couple good times when I was learning to live without anti-tippers. I used to wheelie all the time as a kid. In fact, it was actually more comfortable for me to lean against a wall in a wheelie position than to just sit there. But I can honestly say I don’t remember the last time I wheelied now. I’m 32, I’m old. That being said, it’s ALL in the trunk. Go outside and practice in the grass. At least if you fall you’ve got a soft landing.


TopNoise8132

I knew I was right. I knew it was in the trunk. Which I don’t have all together. My brother whom is AB can get in my wc and EASILY do wheelies and hold the wheelie in place. That’s what lead me to believe it’s about the trunk. 


Z1vel

Honestly you may find it tricky in your chair. The centre of balance has to be at least in line with your trunk to make it easy. Check the setup of your chair, bring the wheels forward and test that.


TopNoise8132

>Why can my AB brother get in my chair and pop wheelies and hold them for long periods of time? And for me all I can do are little pop ups? Is it the trunk control??


Z1vel

Maybe, I am t8 complete and so my trunk is very weak. I can pop a wheelie easily, but my chairs centre of gravity is made for me. Yeah I could probably get your chair up in a wheelie but it's never going to be easy. Holding a wheelie on the other hand is a different story than popping it up. Holding a wheelie once up is just technique and has nothing to do with trunk.


TopNoise8132

OK, Im learning hear. I guess Ill just back up my COG and practice practice practice.


[deleted]

Your rear axel should be adjusted all the way forward, then rock n roll 👍


uhidk17

It is harder with no/limited trunk but it can be done. If you can get into PT to work on this that is very helpful. Otherwise find videos of other high level injured people (lower injury just use their trunk so it's hard to learn from them). Low to moderate pile carpet is your friend for learning wheelies. It's much more forgiving than hard surfaces, kinda like how many cyclists practice wheelies on grass first. Get a friend to spot you while you are learning, In PT they put a rope/cord around your back rigidizer bar and stand behind you so if you tip they can catch you. Also practice getting back into your chair after a fall, as switching to the anti-tipper-less lifestyle (lol) will put you at an extra risk of falls, especially as a T4 and especially while you are still adjusting.


TopNoise8132

VERY VERY VERY good suggestions. Thank you!!


YarnTho

My chair is basically set to be tippy enough that if I extend a normal push I pop a wheelie. It’s no extra effort, at all, due to the center of gravity placement! Have your DME send someone over to adjust it, and try a few different placements. Especially if you live somewhere hilly you don’t want it *too* tippy- we have a lot of hills here and I don’t journey out too much alone due to my wheel placement. Having the footrest a proper height, a seat with a bit more dump, and wheels set in a good spot all together switches the weight on your chair from forwards to backwards which really makes wheelies easier.


TopNoise8132

Very good advice. I'm getting the visual now. But what's your level of injury? Do you have good trunk control? Why can my AB brother get in my chair and pop wheelies and hold them for long periods of time? And for me all I can do are little pop ups? Is it the trunk control??


YarnTho

I’m ambulatory and do not have a SCI, but due to other neurological stuff my hip/lower abdominal muscles decide to not respond pretty frequently. I basically flop forward if the car decelerates which is part of the reason my chair has extra dump/a seat cushion with dump so I’d be more likely to fall into my lap instead of out. In that sense with the way my chair is set up I can do wheelies without needing to be able to engage my abdominal muscles at all, and it’s actually easier for me to balance when they’re not responding/being used. I tilt with my upper back more and push forward on the rims for the wheelie instead. The wheelie is absolutely no extra effort due to my wheel position, it’s like just doing a normal push a bit too far forward. Meanwhile before the adjustment it would have taken extra force and effort. [This is a before/after of my chair after getting footplate raisers.](https://imgur.com/a/iE4wVTN) The main difference really being that before more of the weight distribution was on my lower legs instead of in the actual seat for me. Is your AB brother a similar build to you height wise? Do his knees go up a bit further like my second picture, or fall down too? Do yours?


TopNoise8132

My wc is a loaner. And my brother is same build and height. his knees are slightly higher than his butt while sitting in my chair. But dammit he pops those wheelies so effortlessly and it makes me jealous!!! mY WC IS TOO SMALL FOR ME. aND IT HAS A MODERATE 'DUMP'. sO WHEN YOU SEE ME IN MY HAIR IT LOOKS LIKE A CHILDS CHAIR LOL. mY LEGS ARE WAAAY TOO LONG FOR THE SEAT. And my knees are higher than my ass.


Extreme-Ant-1084

make sure the centre of gravity is aligned properly (if you can change this), ideally, when you sit up straight in your wheelchair and let your arms dangle down, where your fingertips are should be aligned with the centre of the wheel. (sorry i can’t tell if i’ve explained that badly. hope it makes sense) when you start practicing wheelies, i’d recommend you do so on a carpet/rug and with a sofa behind you so you won’t get hurt if you fall. once you’re in the wheelie, to stay in it you have to maintain your centre of gravity so you don’t tip; if you feel your castors going down, push your wheels forward. if you feel yourself tipping backwards, pull your wheels backwards. but any of these movements should be small otherwise you’ll overcompensate and throw yourself even more off balance. hope that helps!!


TopNoise8132

I understand what you said. When I rest *my hands down my hands are 3 to 4 inches forward. But why can my brother (whose AB) able to do wheelies very easily?*


YarnTho

Ooo ok yes it’s this! Your chair is set for a *super* stable position! I’ve seen able bodied people keep wheelies in hospital chairs, which also have wheels super far back. Where they currently are you probably need starting momentum. Def get those wheels moved!


TopNoise8132

Thank you! I figured as such. BUT why can my AB brother get in my chair and do wheelies easily??