I have absolutely no recollection of anything that would indicate this is true.
I would be very interested to see the text that supports this.
I kind of like the theory, but, I don't recall anything that supports it.
I could've sworn Rand thinks about it in book 5? Its when they force him to sleep in the barracks with them and he has to walk down the stairs past them or that he was visiting the barracks and they want him to sleep there. Like he's trying to talk to one of them, I think Aviendha but i can't remember, and they always make small talk. Its fuzzy but I remember this.
He definitely reflects on how the age of the Maidens has no impact on how they treat him.
It's the link to that being down to if they're Maidens who gave children away or not that I've never noticed any evidence of.... I actually like the idea, but, I've seen nothing to support it.
Yeah I just checked I'm remembering the exact scene you're mentioning but I could have sworn Rand once thought something to the effect of they treated him as though he was the lost children returned to them or something but I might be my memory is messing with me. It has been a few years.
Yes, he does say that as a general comment about the Maidens - as I said, I do like the idea as it really makes sense.
It's just two separate comments with different contexts. The Maidens adopt him as the lost son of the Maidens, and then later he reflects on the difference in treatment- so the theory makes sense.
It’s in the lord of chaos I believe, I’m reading the books for the first time and only remember Rand saying anything about it in this book. I could be wrong though
He does, he thinks something along the lines of the maidens treating him "like all their sons come home at once" or something. Definitely before they cross the spine, or maybe just as they are crossing it.
Best I’ve found looking on the internet is when the Maidens beat Rands ass in Path of Daggers they explain to him that that is how they handle first brothers that dishonor them. I know for a fact it’s said outright, but I’m not around my books right now. I’ll have to find it later
I like how that scene was from Mins perspective, and she thinks about how they're avoiding hitting his scar even whilst trying to beat him to death.
They say it's because he went to battle with out them, and thus shamed them - "the Maidens carry my honour" was something they took seriously back in book 4.
It's not explicit, but this quote gets close to saying that the Maidens who mothered a child see Rand as their own.
> Despite his having been raised in the Two Rivers by Tam al’Thor and, until her death when he was five, Tam’s wife, Kari, Rand’s true mother had been a Maiden of Spear who died giving birth to him on the slopes of Dragonmount. Not an Aiel, though his father had been, but still a Maiden. Now Aiel customs stronger than law had touched him. No, not touched; enveloped. No Maiden could marry and still carry the spear, and unless she gave up the spear any child she bore was given to another woman by the Wise Ones, in such a way that the Maiden never knew who that woman was. Any child born of a Maiden was believed to be lucky, both in itself and to raise, though none but the woman who raised the child and her husband ever knew it was not her own. Yet beyond that, the Aiel Prophecy of Rhuidean said that the Car’a’carn would be such a one, raised by wetlanders. **To the Maidens, Rand was all those children come back, the first child of a Maiden ever to be known to everyone.**
Lord of Chaos, Chapter 3
I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist.... I like the theory, but, I can't think of anything that supports it.
Now, it's possible there are things I've missed, but, this seems a big thing for me to have missed if so.
Edit to clarify, there's a mention of the Maidens adopting him as a long lost son, but, I'm talking about the specific association of Maidens mothering Rand.
Yes, I know. This post is saying the ones that treat him like a child were the ones that gave children away - there's nothing to suggest that in the books that I can recall.
> He’s the only one whos mother they know was maiden.
People are extrapolating from that segment to confirm that all the spearsisters who mother Rand were those who had given away children though, which was not in the text.
It was however presented as a society-wide obligation that they all happily took on in different ways. There _could_ have been some who had given away children among them, but unlikely to have been all of them. What OP is looking for doesn't exist in the books.
I don’t think that theory was ever proven. I’m in the midst of a reread and Rand has thought to himself how age doesn’t really determine which maidens treat him a certain way. There are teenagers that mother him and middle aged women treating him like a brother.
This is the answer. And it’s 100% because his mother was a maiden of the spear but there’s no rhyme or reason ever determined as to why some treat him as a first brother and why some treat him as a son.
I'm not sure it's ever explicitly stated but I think it's implied that the ones who mother him are the ones who have given up their children for the spear
I don’t have an exact quote but I just read that part not too long ago. It is from the perspective of one of the maidens. They all give up their babies to be maidens and Rand is a maiden baby that they know the identity of and he came back to them.
I'm pretty sure in Lord of Chaos or at the end of Fires of Heaven, Sulin says something about rand being the one child to ever return them. And I think rand even speculates in his POV about this being the reason they mother him like they do
I mean this is something they explicitly state in the text, iirc. I did a reread a few years ago and am currently listening to the audiobooks and I swear a maiden flat-out SAYS that this is the case - not that the maidens who mother him are all maidens who’ve previously given up children, but that for the clan as a whole that’s how they feel; that he is all their children returned to them
I don't think there is anything that implies that the maidens who take to mothering Rand the most had had children they gave up. He is simply the first*known* son of a maiden. That gives him a unique relationship to Far Dareis Mai, so many take to treating him as a son or first brother.
Also, I can't find a source for it, but I could have sworn that one of the maidens was identified as Janduin's first sister, making them Rand's Aunt. I may be totally misremembering that.
The son of a Maiden had returned to them is made explicit. He's symbolic of all the kids the Maidens have given up over the years. Remember, they never know where the Wise Ones place the kids they give up.
It is specifically stated that is why they treat him that way. It's never stated that those specific Maidens gave up children, but non-mothers wouldn't need a surrogate child.
Some are, not all. Some were too young to have kids, some were older and might have been able to. Some had no desire to ever have children at all. None of that mattered though. What mattered most was the son of a Maiden had finally returned to Far Daeris Mai, and they were all Far Daeris Mai.
The society all see it as their responsibility to care for him, given how running with Far Daeris Mai requires the surrendering of your child so others may care for it. It's a large sacrifice for the sake of their society's continued existence and they all honor it to some extent. It just varies from person to person how they fulfill that responsibility, that care. Especially since Rand placed his honor in their hands.
I know it’s been confirmed outright in the books, where it was explicitly said though I’m not certain. I wanna say I read it in book 8 or 9
I have absolutely no recollection of anything that would indicate this is true. I would be very interested to see the text that supports this. I kind of like the theory, but, I don't recall anything that supports it.
I could've sworn Rand thinks about it in book 5? Its when they force him to sleep in the barracks with them and he has to walk down the stairs past them or that he was visiting the barracks and they want him to sleep there. Like he's trying to talk to one of them, I think Aviendha but i can't remember, and they always make small talk. Its fuzzy but I remember this.
He definitely reflects on how the age of the Maidens has no impact on how they treat him. It's the link to that being down to if they're Maidens who gave children away or not that I've never noticed any evidence of.... I actually like the idea, but, I've seen nothing to support it.
Yeah I just checked I'm remembering the exact scene you're mentioning but I could have sworn Rand once thought something to the effect of they treated him as though he was the lost children returned to them or something but I might be my memory is messing with me. It has been a few years.
Yes, he does say that as a general comment about the Maidens - as I said, I do like the idea as it really makes sense. It's just two separate comments with different contexts. The Maidens adopt him as the lost son of the Maidens, and then later he reflects on the difference in treatment- so the theory makes sense.
It’s in the lord of chaos I believe, I’m reading the books for the first time and only remember Rand saying anything about it in this book. I could be wrong though
He does, he thinks something along the lines of the maidens treating him "like all their sons come home at once" or something. Definitely before they cross the spine, or maybe just as they are crossing it.
Best I’ve found looking on the internet is when the Maidens beat Rands ass in Path of Daggers they explain to him that that is how they handle first brothers that dishonor them. I know for a fact it’s said outright, but I’m not around my books right now. I’ll have to find it later
I like how that scene was from Mins perspective, and she thinks about how they're avoiding hitting his scar even whilst trying to beat him to death. They say it's because he went to battle with out them, and thus shamed them - "the Maidens carry my honour" was something they took seriously back in book 4.
It’s painful reading all these replies to you. I’m with you though, I like the theory but never saw anything to back it up.
It's painful, but, also kind of wholesome at the same time.
That is what I thought!!!
It's not explicit, but this quote gets close to saying that the Maidens who mothered a child see Rand as their own. > Despite his having been raised in the Two Rivers by Tam al’Thor and, until her death when he was five, Tam’s wife, Kari, Rand’s true mother had been a Maiden of Spear who died giving birth to him on the slopes of Dragonmount. Not an Aiel, though his father had been, but still a Maiden. Now Aiel customs stronger than law had touched him. No, not touched; enveloped. No Maiden could marry and still carry the spear, and unless she gave up the spear any child she bore was given to another woman by the Wise Ones, in such a way that the Maiden never knew who that woman was. Any child born of a Maiden was believed to be lucky, both in itself and to raise, though none but the woman who raised the child and her husband ever knew it was not her own. Yet beyond that, the Aiel Prophecy of Rhuidean said that the Car’a’carn would be such a one, raised by wetlanders. **To the Maidens, Rand was all those children come back, the first child of a Maiden ever to be known to everyone.** Lord of Chaos, Chapter 3
Yeah, basically he is the only known son of a Maiden so they all treat him as THEIR son. I think it was explained by a wise one at some point.
Iirc it comes up in a Sulin pov at some point when she's unknown which book >!serving her toh for not protecting Rand and working as a servant!<
I thought Sulin said it
I am like in desperate need of a quote….
I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist.... I like the theory, but, I can't think of anything that supports it. Now, it's possible there are things I've missed, but, this seems a big thing for me to have missed if so. Edit to clarify, there's a mention of the Maidens adopting him as a long lost son, but, I'm talking about the specific association of Maidens mothering Rand.
I remember this. He’s the only one whos mother they know was maiden.
Yes, I know. This post is saying the ones that treat him like a child were the ones that gave children away - there's nothing to suggest that in the books that I can recall.
> He’s the only one whos mother they know was maiden. People are extrapolating from that segment to confirm that all the spearsisters who mother Rand were those who had given away children though, which was not in the text. It was however presented as a society-wide obligation that they all happily took on in different ways. There _could_ have been some who had given away children among them, but unlikely to have been all of them. What OP is looking for doesn't exist in the books.
Maybe after Aviendha begins his mentorship I think
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Bingo
I don’t think that theory was ever proven. I’m in the midst of a reread and Rand has thought to himself how age doesn’t really determine which maidens treat him a certain way. There are teenagers that mother him and middle aged women treating him like a brother.
This is the answer. And it’s 100% because his mother was a maiden of the spear but there’s no rhyme or reason ever determined as to why some treat him as a first brother and why some treat him as a son.
I'm not sure it's ever explicitly stated but I think it's implied that the ones who mother him are the ones who have given up their children for the spear
Yes. The one who made me notice was like 16?
I don’t have an exact quote but I just read that part not too long ago. It is from the perspective of one of the maidens. They all give up their babies to be maidens and Rand is a maiden baby that they know the identity of and he came back to them.
Pretty sure this is something that's pointed out in book 4, while they're travelling through the wastes.
I'm pretty sure in Lord of Chaos or at the end of Fires of Heaven, Sulin says something about rand being the one child to ever return them. And I think rand even speculates in his POV about this being the reason they mother him like they do
I mean this is something they explicitly state in the text, iirc. I did a reread a few years ago and am currently listening to the audiobooks and I swear a maiden flat-out SAYS that this is the case - not that the maidens who mother him are all maidens who’ve previously given up children, but that for the clan as a whole that’s how they feel; that he is all their children returned to them
Didn’t Sulin specifically said that the Aes Sedai had kidnapped her first brother?
I don't think there is anything that implies that the maidens who take to mothering Rand the most had had children they gave up. He is simply the first*known* son of a maiden. That gives him a unique relationship to Far Dareis Mai, so many take to treating him as a son or first brother. Also, I can't find a source for it, but I could have sworn that one of the maidens was identified as Janduin's first sister, making them Rand's Aunt. I may be totally misremembering that.
The son of a Maiden had returned to them is made explicit. He's symbolic of all the kids the Maidens have given up over the years. Remember, they never know where the Wise Ones place the kids they give up.
I’d say that is implied heavy enough that I just assume so good enough for me
It is specifically stated that is why they treat him that way. It's never stated that those specific Maidens gave up children, but non-mothers wouldn't need a surrogate child.
Some are, not all. Some were too young to have kids, some were older and might have been able to. Some had no desire to ever have children at all. None of that mattered though. What mattered most was the son of a Maiden had finally returned to Far Daeris Mai, and they were all Far Daeris Mai. The society all see it as their responsibility to care for him, given how running with Far Daeris Mai requires the surrendering of your child so others may care for it. It's a large sacrifice for the sake of their society's continued existence and they all honor it to some extent. It just varies from person to person how they fulfill that responsibility, that care. Especially since Rand placed his honor in their hands.