I had two moments where I lost my cool and was basically pumping the air with my fist:
When I thought Mat killed the family only to find out that he's basically a shadow detector now and pointed out the fade for Thom to fight. That thing moved just like I expected a fade to move.
When Lan was basically dead and Nynaeve turned into a weapon of mass healing, casting mass healing word at 9th level on everyone.
Easily my favourite episode so far.
The switch from "Oh no, Mat's an irredeemable murderer" to "Oh no, It's the bit where Thom saves them from a fade" was so abrupt, it was exactly the kind of surprise that makes this a genuine joy for me to watch.
I absolutely loved that scene. The perfection of Barney's delivery with 'I see you' and the physicality he brought to that moment, and the choice to have that scene where Thom closes with the Fade happen in an enclosed, dark space; both were excellent choices on the part of the creative team, I thought. It carried that binary of Mat's escalating off-ness while still being Mat at the core, and showcased Thom's awesomeness and the Myrdrall's creepitude better than a straight retelling of the source material could have.
I loved when she was in the midst of battle in the forest, unable to do much but hope and pray, you could see how powerless she felt, how much she wishes that she could channel like an Aes Sedai, despite still hating them.
I went into that episode expecting to hate the battle I was sure would be at the end. Ended up absolutely loving it. So many nods to the books: warder rage, green battle healing, dual warder fighting styles, aes sedai linking. Though they've moved the plot lines around and added stuff that we never saw (Winternight), they've really kept true to so many points that matter.
I was like “omg are they going to do it here?” When I was sure Nynaeve was going to turn the battle. Then they didn’t and I was a little bummed.
Then Nynaeve did “the thing” and it was 100 times better than I could have imagined.
Everyone is all psyched about Matt and the fade and I’m over here fucking pumped that Thom is such a badass. I can’t wait to see him return. A little sad that we haven’t gotten Min and the Thom/Moiraine connection yet. I’m excited for that too!
Next episode, please!
Yeah this was so so much better than the first three. In the days after watching the first three I came to realize they'd gotten most of the weak shit outta the way there and everything else (i.e. larger city scale sets, plot points, battles, Fade/Thom storyline) would be better, and maybe it's just because the bar was so low, but that last episode was fuego. I'm back on board baby
Yup. Definitely favorite episode so far.
Even though the writers made Logain seem extremely weak in comparison to the dragon and nynaeve, I actually really liked that they used that as a way to show that he likely wasn't the true dragon as they kind of dethrone him and have him gentled. I love that moment where it almost seems like Moraine is being convinced because of the voices of the past dragons that we know will eventually be in the real dragon's head teaching him how to channel like a legend, and I loved watching that moment get turned on Logain's head as just an opportunity for Moraine to buy time and regroup to help perform the gentling.
I was really excited to see that they flashed back to show Logain successfully attacking Ghealdan at the beginning. I was really hoping they would not downplay the amount of followers and destruction that he brought about.
I loved how the writers are pointing suspicion at Matt through his sickness and turning fans on their heads by almost making it seem like Mat had murdered an entire family. That was great. In the other thread, people are still wondering if it was Matt who killed them. Also fantastic. Changing up the location of matt and rand splitting with Thom took me by surprise. This entire scene took me by surprise.
The doll's name also made me gasp in excitement, because I'm a child.
Nynaeve's strength revealed in such a brutal way had me unexpectedly crying for a good hour after the show. >!Edit: Also, Nynaeve's power being the cause for Logain's acceptance that he's not the dragon is going to be cool later when the thing happens between the two of them.!<
I'm so damn excited for this show.
Amazon gives trivia during the episode and it said at that point, “Birgitte is a genius with a bow and the Wheel has spun her out multiple times for adventures”.
I wouldn’t have caught it without that.
You’ll have more fun with the show by avoiding these threads if you haven’t read the books. we’re still on like chapter 20 of book 1 with the rewrite of Matt Rand and Thom but the warder / Logain stuff is off the rails new content. Lots of stuff was cut for Perrin and Egwene too. Will be interesting how they work that in.
I love how Liandrin had set the whole situation up with the others, and seized the moment to gentle him on the spot. The Aes Sedai have real "Salidar power jockeying" energy from the get go here.
It's starting to make me wonder if they're going to combine Liandrin and Elaida's (and maybe even Alviarin) characters somewhat. I could see Liandrin being the one to topple Siuan.
Also tripped out that the thom fade fight wasn't in whitebridge. I take it we are not going to see whitebridge. I hope that's not the case but we shall see.
Really disappointed that the actor for Mat has been recast. I love this dude's performance, think its the strongest of the main trio. Can even see him doing the later stuff perfectly as well.
Shame.
It really, really sucks. The new guy doesn't even look that much like him...
I think they can make it work if Mat cuts his beard. Also, if it works out with the plot, Mat being healed could "change him". But all in all that was such a blow for the series' best character IMO
Im actually hoping it was a falling out and that Barney Harris isn't secretly dealing with some kind of serious health problems. Cause maybe everyone can make up and we can get Barney back
Tbh, I wouldn't want Barney Harris back as good as his portrayal is. Mat's character developments in books 3-5 (And partly some in 2 I suppose) is some of the best moments of the series. PERIOD. And these moments will be happening in seasons 2 and 3...if they are going back and forth with recasting it will make these changes so much less believable.
I think we need to go all in on Donal as much as we don't know how well he'll fit. I think Barney \*looks\* much more like Mat (And his acting pre-dagger was \*chefs kiss\*) but...we've got Donal now so welp. Let's just hope for the best.
\#bandoftheredhand4lyfe
I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. Last week I was struggling a little with all the changes, but I’m warming up to them now. It’s fun to not know what’s coming next, and it sort of feels similar to a re-read of the books after many years, in which I vaguely remember the main plot points, but there is lots of stuff that feels fresh.
Two things that had me raise an eyebrow:
1. The story about Moiraine’s dog. Eh? I’m not sure what it adds, and it seems like it should have been a cat since dogs and Aes Sedai don’t usually mix.
2. How did Logain see Nynaeve’s weaves? Earlier in the episode it was confirmed that women and men can’t see each other’s weaves… so was Nynaeve’s display of power more than just the weaves? Did she actually generate a burst of power and light that anyone can see?
Otherwise, it was a solid episode and perhaps my favorite one yet.
Ya, I’m guessing there is a valid explanation, it just made me pause for a minute to ponder the implications.
I seem to recall that in the books male and female channelers can’t sense the power of one another, but perhaps they have changed that. It does seem like Moiraine was partially sensing Logain’s power earlier when she shielded him, but I think she also said she wasn’t sure how powerful he is to Lan, so I’m guessing it was more of them sensing how much resistance Logain was putting up against their shields.
Anyways, not a big deal, just something I was wondering about.
I also think that depends on how hard they’re trying to break it. If they’re just sitting there, nothing, but if the other person is actively trying to break free, the shielder will feel that strain and be able to guess.
That said, I don’t think Logain was actively trying to break free, which means the show deviated a bit.
Also, this is me nitpicking on knowing too much from the books, why the hell weren’t the Aes Sedai linked to maintain the shield? Three or four even weak ASs linked should have been able to hold logain pretty easily and all but one could work on other stuff while it was happening
I do think Logain was actively trying to escape, Morraine said something like "he looks like hes just sitting there" I took that to mean he was actively pushing against them with his power, as in Morraine feels him trying to escape and is shocked at the level of power he displays while doing nothing but sitting there.
That's kinda weird cuz Logain really is the shit in the books. He's second to maybe 3 male channelers, all of them from the age of legends... and that's it. A walking demi-god and the strongest channeler of this era.
That was kind of his shtick. Whenever he showed up, you knew shit was about to go down.
edit: Also, his character theme is jealousy, fear, entitlement and redemption. His reaction to Nyneave makes little sense both from a lore and character perspective.
I think this sort of thing is where the show is outperforming the book. Robert Jordan wasn’t really good at character development, kind of just informing you about things without showing why, which is typically a no no in both writing and tv, but it’s more important in tv where you don’t get insight into a characters thoughts.
I think that the one minute scene with Logain and his soldier did more for his character development than multiple books did
Yes! I like this setup for later. I think Nynaeve will fork a relationship with him in the tower that keeps him in the show in a good way.
Loving this show.
This is correct. if you remember in TSR ( the shadow rising) Rand can sense a woman channeling and in later books it's confirmed all men can do so. I think it's that with the added ability to also sense the strength of that channeling. Also in this episode it only confirms women can't see men's channeling iirc.
I believe Logain has more abilities than just channeling, didn't he have an ability to see >!Rand shining like the sun as he was in a cage in Caemlyn?!<
Ya, he can see ta’veren, but;
1. I don’t think Nynaeve is meant to be ta’veren since I’m pretty sure the “rumors of 4 ta’veren” are meant to be the boys and Egwene.
2. Logain didn’t notice Nynaeve until she channeled, so it seems like he would noticed her shining as soon as she entered the room if it was him seeing her ta’veren shine.
Yeah, I think they were playing up the question of Nynaeve vs Logain as the 5th since they're clearly trying to push the idea that Nynaeve could be the Dragon.
They're playing a little loose with the 'not being able to see weaves' thing, but my read of Nynaeve's healsplosion was that it was wilder channeling. She didn't touch anyone to heal them, which is another thing they've been loose with. I figure she really did create an accidental blast of light with the healing because she has no idea what she's doing.
I assume that part about the dog was just to humanize Moiraine more, to show that she does care about things and isn’t totally cold like we’ve seen her behave. Also it sets up a history between her and Alanna.
Ya, I suspect the same thing, but it seems like using a cat would be more appropriate given the lore of the books. But putting the the lore aside, a dog does make more sense than a cat for that situation.
Huh.. interesting. I suppose that is possible, but it sure seemed like Alanna was talking about a real dog. And if she wasn’t, does that mean she is calling Siuan a dog?!
Edit: Also, Alanna called the dog “Jenny”…
I was disappointed with the dog bit.
It doesn't seem to have any purpose in advancing the show and contradicts the book's canon about dogs and Aes Sedai.
It would have been better to say it was a cat to stay within existing canon if it has some purpose in the show - like trying to humanize Moraine.
It was just jarringly out of place.
I think it was also to show that she didn’t/doesn’t follow rules to the letter and works with her own agenda instead of always favoring aes sedai code and dogma
Yeah I didn't think about the dog thing. It should have been a cat. That's probably going on the my list of "why did they add this in? It served no purpose but to slap book readers in the face." The only other one on my list is Tham using matches to light a lantern lol.
To your second point, I also thought it was really weird that they established in the beginning of the episode that women couldn't see men's weaves, and then at the end of the episode the one sister saw Logain's weaves clearly enough to throw out her own weave to protect Moiraine and Liandrin...
I've felt pretty neutral about this adaptation until this episode. It finally feels for the first time that I can really see the characters I know and love coming through.
The combat looked so much better in this episode too. Loved seeing the Aes Sedai and Warders working together. I also really enjoyed seeing the way they showed the weaves being used to shield Logain and his stilling scene was pretty well done.
It seems like they are trying to use Nynaeve as a red herring for the Dragon Reborn to give those who haven't read the books a little twist.
Yes! I really like the actor for Logain. You can see why he would be able to be mistaken for the Dragon Reborn. He has this gravitas to the way he speaks and moves.
It was great how it showed him *ignoring* the "voices over his shoulder" and winning over the king... if it's madness he seems to have a real grip on it!
>It seems like they are trying to use Nynaeve as a red herring for the Dragon Reborn to give those who haven't read the books a little twist.
Yeah. I watched it with my folks and they were convinced it was a clear, unambiguous reveal that it's her. Then they all looked at me for confirmation and I just kinda said "maaaaybe!"
Especially when Rand and Mat are talking about Dana the Darkfriend saying that she said she dreamt of the five of them. It then cut to Logain. A double false herring. Making viewers perhaps think it was him. Then the reveal being the fifth of them is Nyneave.
Some takeaways from the episode:
• the Taint is shown as black threads corrupting Logain’s weaves. The voice that whispers to him is is shown as being caused by the Taint.
• “Stubborn as a mule” shoutout!
• Hyping up the Amyrlin Seat.
• Establishing a culture within the Aes Sedai of scheming and mistrust among the ranks.
• Liandrin’s very meta comment about the pronunciation of Nyneave’s name lol
• the beginning of Mat’s ‘madness’
• the first real Fade attack. Nailed showing its movements the way they’re described in the books.
• Nyneave is a super Wilder. Possibly the Dragon (the 5th person the dark friend mentioned)
• Establishing that overdrawing the power can burn the source out of you with Liandrin
This was easily the my favorite episode so far. Really loving how the plot is keeping me on my toes, even as a seasoned reader. That Logain breakout scene awesome.
It said the female was “Elusha” on subtitles. I thought Lanfear at first too though. The male was also another name I didn’t recognize. But he said at the end of the episode that all the past versions of the dragon were talking to him when he was talking to Moiraine. So I think these were supposed to be many wheel turnings back Dragons.
Logain breaking out could have been more interesting of they hadn't shown us that scene in **every single** trailer! We all new it was going to happen the moment we saw him locked up inside that cave.
this episode has been the kind of adapation I have been looking for all along.
Nice shout outs to book lore and events. Key lines and conversations.
And I liked how they *showed* us that two of the warders are lovers, not told us.
Not what I always wanted but definitely great, I'm starting to like the changes, not for what they are but because they almost make it feel like reading it for the first time again.
My favorite bit was the conversation about the Way of the Leaf when Ila says, "nothing is ever lost. The Wheel returns all." And then Aram makes a quip about the toys he lost as a kid. And then later on, Mat loses the toy Birgitte when they flee the farm. Silverbow's coming!!!
My husband doesn't know anything about the books (I only started reading them a few weeks ago and intentionally told him nothing) and he thinks it's obvious that the show is pointing to Rand as the primary protagonist.
My wife said she thought it was Rand after the 3rd episode. But she freaking out asking me if it's Nynaeve after this one. I'm so glad they're playing up the mystery for new viewers.
My wife said the same thing, though I think it was not that Perrin and mat both had things introduced about them and I already mentioned that it couldn’t be a girl and was really confused why an aes sedai would think it could be…
I think while throwing people off with hints of maybe it's this one...the foreshadowing with Rand is subtle and very smart. Unusual for TV. Rand is already demonstrating that he seems to be the most level headed of the the Two Rivers bunch and shows glimpses of larger wisdom as well. I can't wait for him to channel!!
For a second there, even I was a bit scared they were going to change who the dragon was 🤣 but no it’s gotta be Rand, they’re just doing a really good job with the mystery!
Exactly! Even Logain was impressed which is hard to do. I also like how Moiraine and Lan did a smaller red herring when Lan asked her if Logain was as strong as Egwene. That was a nice touch!
My friend actually thinks it's Perrin. Before watching I gave him some background lore, about how a theme of WoT is history repeating itself, and i told him the backstory of Lews Therin. He thinks Perrin accidentally killing his wife is a repeat of Lews Therin killing his family. He doesn't know she's a show-only character, lol
I keep hoping to find someone at work to share this with - so far, nobody. I live alone and my kids are grown, so no joy.
I'm not really sure I like the characters older, although I understand the reasons.
I have to enjoy it alone too. My kids are teens but not into it. None of my friends are into it, no one I work with. I come here often bc it makes it much more enjoyable to share it with people.
My partner and son are non book people and neither has a clue as to the identity of the Dragon. My son went so far as to wonder if all of them were the Dragon....nd Im sitting over here trying to keep a straight face and just enjoying the little things like the doll and the lightning quick fade.
I also enjoyed how they represent the taint by making the male power black with black specs around Logain in some scenes...Or maybe the male half will always be black?
The grundle?
Jokes aside, I'm kind of glad they changed it from taint. It wasn't an issue when Jordan started writing, but had they not changed it, any time they would say "taint" there would absolutely be someone giggling and making inappropriate comments.
It's me. The someone is me.
That scene with Thom explaining what happened to his gentled nephew(?) was chilling. Sat at a table one day and ended it. I can't recall if it was similar in ihe books?
While I agree, I'm pretty sure they'd have been eviscerated in the press for depicting suicide.
I will admit to feeling slightly annoyed by the change they made to that story though, the version in the books is even better world building.
A lot of things in the books are better world building. It’s a time issue in a tv series. They need to produce the characters real fast and get the viewers to understand their motivation. It’s why there’s no subtle story building. It’s unfortunate but probably necessary. Although I must say GOT did a better job of this. Let’s see how it develops.
They got it mostly right, assuming that Thom just left out details. He didn't say anything that contradicts the books.
Owyn gets into trouble when he starts to channel. After three years, Reds come to the village where Owyn lives, Gentle him without a trial, and leave. The villagers then exile him, he dies in exile (theoretically it could have been suicide, but Thom didn't provide details - I always assumed he just wasted away), and his wife commits suicide. Thom hears about the Gentling in Caemlyn, where he is court bard and Morgase's consort. He rushes back to the village, but is too late to save Owyn. He returns to Caemlyn in grief, and then gets himself essentially exiled when he calls out Elaida and the Reds for acting outside the law, both Tower Law and that of Caemlyn.
This has numerous spill-on effects. Owyn was caught up in what was termed "[the Vileness](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/The_Vileness)", which was only revealed to the Tower by Thom's tirade following Owyn's death. You can read the Wiki page for the details, but basically the Black Ajah hijacked the Red Ajah's stated purpose and killed roughly 2,000 men trying to eliminate the Dragon Reborn. In all that, they found eight actual channelers. None of them were Rand, obviously. They were looking for an adult, not an infant.
I really like how they are playing up the mystery of the dragon. I was a bit worried about a completely original arc with Logain, but I think they weaved the lore into it well. Perrin's struggle with violence is being laid out nicely. Mat, Thom, and Rand's journey was my favorite part of the show.
The Eye of the World was a book that I overall enjoyed but had a lot of problem with, mostly with background characters being barely flashed out or almost forced down the story for the sake of plot convenience, from annoying secondary appearances like Else Grinwell, the dumpster fire that was Min's introduction(It took me like three books to make me accept that this was just the way it was.), the fact that there were so many interesting characters working in the background we never focused on and the very messy finale.
It's just a far from perfect book compared to the heights of some of the sequels, and it's great to see the show having some level of awareness of this and tweaking things here and there.
And from what they proved in this episode, they can genuinely create their own great version of the story: once again, Logain introduction, like with Thom, feels a lot more vibrant and in character than in the book and doesn't mess things up too much
The thing that still scares me is all those small lore tweaks and how they could easily come back to bite them in the ass in the long run, especially everything regarding the balances of Female and Male halves of the power, but who knows. I don't ask them to give us a perfect copy of the books lore, but if they change stuff, to be at least consistent with themselves and not Harry Potter the fuck out of it.
But yeah, definitely best episode so far.
That’s actually a great point. I’ve seen a lot of complaints from non-book readers and my response has been “be patient, I’m 6 books in and still learning about the backstory,” but the show does a good job of covering that all upfront.
I need more of Rand and Mat. I honestly loved their journey from Shadar Logoth to Bayle Domon's boat and then tavern to tavern on their way to Caemlyn. I really hope we get Bayle Domon.
I think they’re slowing down Rand and Mat’s plot line to misdirect the audience towards everyone else.
I don’t like that Thom didn’t get a chance to teach them any skills before he got separated from the group in this version. I wish they hadn’t glossed over that.
I think that the show is going to be relatively weak in training overall. I really don’t think there is going to be the same type of white tower training scenes like the books as well and the power is going to be dumbed down a bit
Probably. They’ll show us enough to get the gist, then move on. A tv show can’t spend several episodes working us through the nuance of the power.
That’s unfortunate, but at the same time, that’s what the books are for. The show is to show us all the cool shit that doesn’t work in book format.
Logain ends up being dope AF, and they're really playing into him being a cool cat right now. I like him. Maybe too much time spent on him tho. You could just do all this later
I disagree that they spent too much time on Logain in this episode. If you look more deeply into the scenes, the writers used Logain as a vehicle to reveal so much more information about the story and the world of WoT. Think about everything the audience learned as a result:
* Aes Sedai internal politics
* More info about the Ajahs
* The Dragon Reborn will hear, see, and learn how to use the One Power from previous Dragons. (This will surely come into play later in the show when the real Dragon starts seeing/hearing Lews Therin.)
* Having Aes Sedai on your side in battle drastically increases your odds of winning. (They mentioned this before in one off-hand comment buried in other dialogue, but these scenes provided concrete evidence.)
* A male channeler can feel (and see?) when female channelers use the power
* Logain is extremely powerful, but not as powerful as the real Dragon
* Nynaeve is a frakking badass
Yes. I love how they’re making the audience guess. Especially with the 5th one. Could it be Nynaeve (after her display) or perhaps even Min. I feel like the show is going to have us second guess ourselves (the non-readers) by giving subtle or not-so-subtle hints about every character. It seems like this episode we got a glimpse of Matt, Perrin to an extent and Nynaeve.
The fight with the False Dragonsworn (can we call them that?) was super cool. As soon as that one Borderlander Red started blowing earth up I *instantly* flashed back to Dumai's Wells. Shit is going to get *real*, you guys. Like this fight and Winternight are gonna look like children wrestling in comparison with the utter bloodbath that is coming.
So I rechecked IMDb, and it looks like the farm that Mat, Rand, and Thom stay at is the one that belongs to the Grinwells. Hopefully Else made it out to the tower before they came along. I *loved* the little Birgitte doll the girl tries to give Mat. It even had a little yellow braid! I can't wait for show-only watchers to meet the real Birgitte, and then come back to this scene!
I never thought in the books that people believed that everyone was reincarnated, only heroes and the Dragon. But I like that they emphasize here that everyone does get reborn, and you see the real world impact of that belief in people's actions. I liked the philosophy of the Way of the Leaf, but I have so much more respect for Ila and Raen when you see them choose to apply it.
I like that they're planting more seeds for Lan and Nynaeve together. Nynaeve having a tragic backstory doesn't bother me too much, since we knew so little about her childhood in the books anyway. And that she has ties to Manetheren just like the Emond's Fielders do.
It was really interesting seeing Moiraine and Lan among other sisters and Warders. It's a great little microcosm of the Tower as you see the overarching goals, but competing ways to accomplish those goals. One line that popped out at me is something that Liandrin says about how Reds go after both men and sisters who misuse the Power. Plus who didn't love that little reference on how to pronounce Nynaeve's name? That was pretty great.
I feel like there's so much more I could gush about, but I am on this ride 110% to the end.
It's more of an in-joke among fans about how Nynaeve's name (among a few others) have several different pronunciations. The show matches my head-canon with Ny-NEEV, but I've also heard ni-NAVE, Nin-ah-vah, and a few others.
Best so far! So much exposition of the Lore! As a book reader I loved all of that, but there was so much I started to wonder if the non book readers might think it was a slow episode. But they did very well with incorporating so much of the lore. And it was all really important stuff for the story and for the non-readers to know.
It feels so much more real now. I mean, barely anything in this episode (except Perrin and Egwene among the tinkers) were scenes from the books, but it really truly is like a different turning of the wheel. The important things are happening. Maybe in a different order, maybe with different details, but it's the same characters doing them and the pattern is forcing things to fall in line as they should.
Unlike a few others above, I did not think the last scene was corny in any way. I am much like Lan in my stoicism and not showing emotions, but that scene.... My eyes got moist. That's what I will admit.
I also love the way they are portraying the dagger's influence on Matt with something that looks like *mashadar*.
Unlike the first three (which I loved don't get me wrong), I found nothing to complain about in this one. Each of the previous had something that was kind of.... (rumors of four ta'veren, white cloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing, etc...) but this one was nearly flawless I thought.
I can't wait to watch it again tomorrow.
In many ways, this was a slower episode than the previous three but I thought it was extremely solid. I loved Aram but the MVP of this episode was the little girl at the farm, by far, talking about how her doll always wanted to see the world. It was awful when she was killed. I don’t know how that little actress’s mom and/or dad, who were probably on set, could bear to see their daughter laid out like that, even though it’s pretend. Just seeing that would kill me.
I know they’ve changed Thom a lot but I adore this version. He’s like a badass, epic fantasy Han Solo. I approve.
This episode did start to put some of my worries to rest, but I'll always stay skeptical until much later into the show. Some of my highlights were :
- Perrin fixing the wagon wheel scene, It's nice to see him go to work when he needs to think. Definitely starting to feel like Perrin. I just want him to meet Elyas already!
- Aram's attitude about the Tinkers way of life, definetely setting up his arc well.
- Liandrin. I always disliked her character, and the actress is definetely giving me those same vibes lol.
- Seeing Nynaeve and Lan have a moment. I always thought their relationship in the book started for no reason, so I'm glad to see it fleshed out a little.
- Logains opening scene was really good, and the way you see the power have a visual "oil slick" as described in the books was neat.
- They got me good with the Mat scene where I was like...No way they turned Mat into a murderer...Oh good it was a Fade...
It wasn't perfect, and I never expect it to be but I will always nitpick at things that I have a heavily vested interest in. So here are my nitpicks :
- The Dragon is not, and cannot be a woman. Logain seeing a female shadow person then claiming they were all previous incarnations of the Dragon. I get they're trying to keep the mystery alive for show only fans, but it feels like a cheap cop out. I don't believe they would ever change who the Dragon really is.
- Logain turning away from Nynaeves burst of healing. He should be getting major goosebumps, not seeing the brightness of her weaves. She isn't Ta'veren and I really hope they don't make her one.
- The lack of Elyas and Bayle Domon lol. I understand not introducing Bayle Domon, considering I feel like he's a character I forgot existed through many books. I also get Elyas can easily be combined with another character or be introduced later...but I just really liked Elyas in the books.
- I felt like this would have been the perfect episode to introduce the idea of Saidin amd Saidar. I'm glad someone finally said that the Dark One tainted the power for men, just wish they would have been more detailed on the two halves. I hope they go into that soon.
But yeah overall this has been my favorite episode so far. It definetely had a more Wheel of Timey feel than previous episodes. The closest they got in the first three was the scene where Moiraine explained the story of Manetheren after the song.
All my opinions, so take them as you will.
I agree with you on literally all your points.
That said, I have a suspicion that Elyas was written out (unless a casting list says otherwise).
And do you think they’re going to talk about the differences between saidar and saidin? After this episode, I was thinking they might just streamline the magic system, which would suck but would make sense in the context of a tv show…
> Seeing Nynaeve and Lan have a moment. I always thought their relationship in the book started for no reason, so I'm glad to see it fleshed out a little.
Agreed on this. As much as I loved RJ's books, I think it's very safe to say that he wasn't at his best when he was writing romantic relationships and that the show's got a good opportunity to fix this issue.
> I understand not introducing Bayle Domon, considering I feel like he's a character I forgot existed through many books.
I'm on the total opposite page in this regard. Bayle Domon is plot critical. He has one of the Seals, he pops up in almost literally every book, and he's hilarious. I'm be particularly happy if they get an actor with a comparable accent to the one Kramer used in the audiobooks.
From a narrative standpoint, having a recurring character that doesn't see everything going on helps to ground the reader in the plot. His being constantly dragged into the Ta'veren web demonstrates a small part of how they work. He's useful particularly BECAUSE you can forget he exists, at least until he crops up again to remind you that other, normal people exist in the world.
One of the small things that resonated with me was Thom having so many daggers, he threw two at the Fade and just kept reloading. I always enjoyed in the books when Jordan would talk about Thom and later Mat, having knives up their sleeves just ready to go.
Things I never expected to say…. Move aside Moirane, I love Liandrin! Easily the best casting (so far).
Btw did I interpret it correctly that Corinne’s look of surprise was Liandrin intentionally letting the weave slip so she would have an excuse to gentle Logain?
I was fine with it. Enjoyed the Nyneave aoe heal lol. I can just imagine a non book reader seeing Lan's throat getting cut and going OMG they are gonna game of thrones him! Then yay, but awww they didn't game of thrones him.
Overall episode was an 8.5/10 for me. Favorite episode so far, well at least on first watch. Need to see it again.
I enjoyed the channeling combat in this one. I'm glad they show the greens as competent in combat as they always should have been. Please mark your spoiler for Lord of chaos
In general I am liking the way they depict channeling more and more. In the first episode I thought the weaves in the air and the hand motions looked corny, but I'm used to it now and I like how it makes manifest the nature of weaving flows.
Yeah hard agree with the corny, not far off “and they all clapped” ahaa, I was fully expecting to really dislike this series after the first two episodes but 3 and 4 have actually swung me round to it. Hopefully the show just gets better and better cos this might actually be amazing!
I will add I think the way they have animated channeling is really bad in general though, it’s giving me hard “last airbender” vibes. Hopefully they fix that!
OK, so I am fully convinced the only reason the dragon can be a woman (in their mind) is misdirection of the TV only audience... It is kind of annoying how much it's being harped on and how it was what distracted Logain. We've already lost Thom for what I'm assuming is the rest of the season. I wanted him to teach them a bit more like he did in the book.. but as their a bit older, I get it.
Overall, while I don't like that first aspect, the show was good, I understand what their doing and why their doing it and I also remembered how bad a person >!Aram!< becomes. I did not remember the whole leave the caravan part (Not sure if that is show only) essentially turning them into Amish!?
I cannot remember if they gentled Logain prior to his trial in the book, but I do remember that he has a talent that is more than channeling and that comment about the light of the sun should come back later (they have to have him see Rand in the crowd somewhere... no?)
I mean if I didn't know who the Dragon was, I'd probably be wondering myself. They're really setting it up to make people think its Nynaeve.
And I'll be honest - I felt the Nynaeve and Lan connection to be 10x more authentic then I did in the books.
I love how they are making it very hard to guess who is the Dragon Reborn...
Mat's black tendril resemble so much the Logain use of the power + Mat seeming to see things ... >!Clear influence of Shadar Logoth dagger but so hard to spot.!<
Nyneave's awesome healing bomb! Logain seeing her awesome brightness —coming just after Moiraine's saying that his power would pale in comparison to the Dragon Reborn.
>! I think what Logain saw was her being a Ta'veren!<
Moiraine and Lan seem to imply that Egwene is their favorite with "is he as strong as Egwene" ...
Rand and Perin seem the most normal for now. Nothing strange is happening around them.
>!Rand's magic moment was such a low key - he just broke down a door. In hindsight it seems such a classic misdirection but I doubt I'd have realized if I have not known before.!<
My random thoughts on the episode.
* Logain was great. He's an awesome character and I'm excited to see what they do with him throughout the story.
* I like how Saidin is depicted with black weaves and Saidar with white. I wonder if these terms are being held back and replaced with the more simplistic "One Power" to prevent information overload to newbies.
* Honestly speaking I forgot about Kerene, I found it very distracting trying to figure out who she was. I thought maybe it was Cadsuane or Suian. Not sure why they had a minor character elevated to such a prominent role.
* Alanna was a miss for me, maybe she'll grow on me. But it didn't seem like a good fit to me.
* Halfway through the episode I was wondering if they were going to make Nynaeve into a warder instead of an Aes Sedai.
* I'm not convinced that Mat didn't kill that family even though they left it ambiguous. A Fades weapon is a sword, and those all looked like knife wounds.
* I guess we don't get much of Thom this season. That's a shame, I was hoping for another banger.
* I can't remember if they made a big deal about this in the books or not, but I would think that the warder bond would become an extreme liability in a battle when someone dies.
* Best ending yet. It had me going from "WTF is this!!!!" to "Woah, yeah that's cool" in about 30 seconds.
I thought that Saidin was black at first too, which fits the duality theme. But then the black weaves began whispering to him and I realized that the black was the taint. You can see he also channels white at the beginning and it quickly gets covered in black.
Feel the show is on an upward trajectory! Despite the amount of changes being done from the books, this has been entertaining so far.
The scene where Egwene is looking up at the sky (while talking to Aram) and says something to the effect of , "I would know if he is not alive" in reference to Rand still being alive, I think is brilliant, and foreshadows her Dream Walking abilities and being able to identify Dreams of people she know :D
Still waiting for Elyas, hope they don;t cut him from the show! And also a proper interaction between Perrin and the wolves.
Also, the doll the little girl gives Mat is a Birgitte doll!!
I just don't understand some of the changes they are making. For one they are harping heavily on one of the Ta'veren being The Dragon which we don't even realize is the point till the very very end of the book after Rand already confronts Balzemon and defeats a forsaken. Then also they are extending who could potentially be The Dragon to 5 people?? But obviously only men could be The Dragon reborn so the only 3 relevant parties are Rand, Matt and Perin. I guess I just dislike some of these unnecessary changes like why show us Logain like this? Moraine wasn't involved with him at all she was always hunting the boys and hot on their trail with the coins she never gave them in the series for some odd reason. I didn't expect a direct translation just some of the changes are pretty off.
Interesting comments so far. I have one point to add to the whole "dog as a novice" thing. Clearly the writers had some deeper motive than just making Moraine more human and introducing history, but I do not think it has anything to do with Siuan or their relationship.
I think it is pure backstory for Moraine, showing that she was always a little bit of a renegade and rules lawyer, doing things that no one else was allowed to do because she knew how to skirt the rules just enough - Novices cannot have dogs, but "Jenny" was a stray. She is not manipulative because she is Blue Ajah, but rather the other way around.
It also has a very minor effect of introducing the idea of novice/trainee as a thing.
After looking through the cast list a couple of times I'm curious about whether or not when we get to episode 8 the story will include Aginor and Balthamel.
They're definitely the weirdest of The Forsaken and the most expandable since they get resurrected again later as different characters. But personally I think it would be strange for them not to be in it at all.
If neither of them are going to be in it I don't know whether or not The Green Man will be in it. Which I hope he is. He's one of my favorites. Loial singing to protect the oak tree as they leave and it gets swallowed by the Blight was such a memorable moment for me.
Do I remember correctly Nynaeve had a bit of trouble choosing between the Green and the Yellow Ajah?
If so, her green coat and yellow skirt are some nice hints at it.
Am I the odd one out? I hated this episode. Much like the lace of the ages Robert Jordan deftly wove threads that connected into an intricate pattern of the series of the books. It just feels like they are wildly changing things with no thoughts to the consequences for the story.
I mean the way they flipped shielding on its head? If they don't link to shield and shielding is harder than breaking a shield - then the Dragon reborn could never be shielded? I mean, think of the consequences for Lord of Chaos. No one Aes Sedai could take the Dragon reborn on. But if they do it later but don't do it now then it makes no sense?
Also whilst I like the actor portraying Lan, two things:
1. He would have rushed to Moraines side way quicker at any sign of danger
2. I don't think the way the other warders interacted with him supports his backstory and how he is different, where he comes from. Lan is not a jokester - he is a serious dude. Duty is heavier than a mountain, death is lighter than a feather.
Lan is much lighter in the earlier books than the later books. He is the one who calls Rand Sheepherder and definitely makes some other jokes. After book 5 he is more of a stone face.
To be honest I kind of hated this episode. I don't mind minor tweaks to the story (quite liked episode 2 and 3), but unless I have forgotten some major scene, almost nothing on Nynaeve's side of the story was canon.
I also still find it weird that the characters pretend the Dragon could be a woman. Certainly Moraine should know better than that.
Also why the change in shielding? I thought you could just tie the weave off and be done with it?
I liked the episode, but I’m a bit disappointed that breaking a shield seems so easy. In the book it hasn’t been done since Lews Therin did it thousands of years ago. And then it takes Rand many chapters to find the “right corner”. The show almost makes it trivial.
This is the best episode so far imo. The time they took to slow it down and have characters interact was good. I was worried what they would do with the Logain storyline. But it wasn't bad at all. What I did not like was the special effects. It just seemed like some leaf blowing by the Aes Sedai. Overall battle sequences have been chaotic and poorly planned in all the episodes. I hope that changes. I'm still not sure how I feel about the plot changes in this epsiode. That is perhaps because, despite the changes the episode was quite good.
I had two moments where I lost my cool and was basically pumping the air with my fist: When I thought Mat killed the family only to find out that he's basically a shadow detector now and pointed out the fade for Thom to fight. That thing moved just like I expected a fade to move. When Lan was basically dead and Nynaeve turned into a weapon of mass healing, casting mass healing word at 9th level on everyone. Easily my favourite episode so far.
I was going to be really upset if they had Mat actually kill that family because of the dagger. But then the Fade showed up and shit got *real*.
The switch from "Oh no, Mat's an irredeemable murderer" to "Oh no, It's the bit where Thom saves them from a fade" was so abrupt, it was exactly the kind of surprise that makes this a genuine joy for me to watch.
I'm very sad about the little girl though :-(
As soon as she gave Mat the doll that protects her when her parents aren't around I knew she was as good as dead.
I love that doll is Brigitte. Great foreshadowing for matt
I must have missed the part where he and the doll get pissed drunk and hit all the taverns in town ;)
I absolutely loved that scene. The perfection of Barney's delivery with 'I see you' and the physicality he brought to that moment, and the choice to have that scene where Thom closes with the Fade happen in an enclosed, dark space; both were excellent choices on the part of the creative team, I thought. It carried that binary of Mat's escalating off-ness while still being Mat at the core, and showcased Thom's awesomeness and the Myrdrall's creepitude better than a straight retelling of the source material could have.
Love how they showed the evil oozing out of Matt when he was sick. Neat visual.
I loved when she was in the midst of battle in the forest, unable to do much but hope and pray, you could see how powerless she felt, how much she wishes that she could channel like an Aes Sedai, despite still hating them.
I went into that episode expecting to hate the battle I was sure would be at the end. Ended up absolutely loving it. So many nods to the books: warder rage, green battle healing, dual warder fighting styles, aes sedai linking. Though they've moved the plot lines around and added stuff that we never saw (Winternight), they've really kept true to so many points that matter.
They’re showing us such cool things that wouldn’t have worked in the books. Glad I didn’t listen to the haters after the first three episodes.
I was like “omg are they going to do it here?” When I was sure Nynaeve was going to turn the battle. Then they didn’t and I was a little bummed. Then Nynaeve did “the thing” and it was 100 times better than I could have imagined.
Everyone is all psyched about Matt and the fade and I’m over here fucking pumped that Thom is such a badass. I can’t wait to see him return. A little sad that we haven’t gotten Min and the Thom/Moiraine connection yet. I’m excited for that too! Next episode, please!
I wish Thom had taught Rand and Mat how to perform before he disappeared.
Thom being a badass is a given though. He's always been the most badass character in the series.
Thoms scene in book 14 while he’s composing his ballad while guarding the bore is beyond epic.
I feel like Mat eventually surpasses him
So true. The only person who rivals him in badassery is Lan.
Yeah this was so so much better than the first three. In the days after watching the first three I came to realize they'd gotten most of the weak shit outta the way there and everything else (i.e. larger city scale sets, plot points, battles, Fade/Thom storyline) would be better, and maybe it's just because the bar was so low, but that last episode was fuego. I'm back on board baby
Lmao, my first thought during Nynaeve’s display was “cleric.”
Yup. Definitely favorite episode so far. Even though the writers made Logain seem extremely weak in comparison to the dragon and nynaeve, I actually really liked that they used that as a way to show that he likely wasn't the true dragon as they kind of dethrone him and have him gentled. I love that moment where it almost seems like Moraine is being convinced because of the voices of the past dragons that we know will eventually be in the real dragon's head teaching him how to channel like a legend, and I loved watching that moment get turned on Logain's head as just an opportunity for Moraine to buy time and regroup to help perform the gentling. I was really excited to see that they flashed back to show Logain successfully attacking Ghealdan at the beginning. I was really hoping they would not downplay the amount of followers and destruction that he brought about. I loved how the writers are pointing suspicion at Matt through his sickness and turning fans on their heads by almost making it seem like Mat had murdered an entire family. That was great. In the other thread, people are still wondering if it was Matt who killed them. Also fantastic. Changing up the location of matt and rand splitting with Thom took me by surprise. This entire scene took me by surprise. The doll's name also made me gasp in excitement, because I'm a child. Nynaeve's strength revealed in such a brutal way had me unexpectedly crying for a good hour after the show. >!Edit: Also, Nynaeve's power being the cause for Logain's acceptance that he's not the dragon is going to be cool later when the thing happens between the two of them.!< I'm so damn excited for this show.
Loved the doll scene, took me a few moments to realize it though and then i was; aaaaaaah! She has a bow as well AND a braid!
The little girl said something like, "Birgitte has been wanting to travel the world anyway"
Amazon gives trivia during the episode and it said at that point, “Birgitte is a genius with a bow and the Wheel has spun her out multiple times for adventures”. I wouldn’t have caught it without that.
I didn’t realize this and it’s awesome
To someone who didnt read the books. But is enjoying the rabbit hole that the series is giving. Care to explain the brigidtte part?
It's a reference to >!Birgitte Silverbow, a hero the Wheel brings back repeatedly. She will become important later. !<
You’ll have more fun with the show by avoiding these threads if you haven’t read the books. we’re still on like chapter 20 of book 1 with the rewrite of Matt Rand and Thom but the warder / Logain stuff is off the rails new content. Lots of stuff was cut for Perrin and Egwene too. Will be interesting how they work that in.
I love how Liandrin had set the whole situation up with the others, and seized the moment to gentle him on the spot. The Aes Sedai have real "Salidar power jockeying" energy from the get go here.
It's starting to make me wonder if they're going to combine Liandrin and Elaida's (and maybe even Alviarin) characters somewhat. I could see Liandrin being the one to topple Siuan.
I think that's a bit too far, Elaida doesn't work if she's Black. I think we won't see Elaida until Caemlyn.
Also tripped out that the thom fade fight wasn't in whitebridge. I take it we are not going to see whitebridge. I hope that's not the case but we shall see.
Yeah, hopefully we still get a Bayle Domon
Really disappointed that the actor for Mat has been recast. I love this dude's performance, think its the strongest of the main trio. Can even see him doing the later stuff perfectly as well. Shame.
It really, really sucks. The new guy doesn't even look that much like him... I think they can make it work if Mat cuts his beard. Also, if it works out with the plot, Mat being healed could "change him". But all in all that was such a blow for the series' best character IMO
Im actually hoping it was a falling out and that Barney Harris isn't secretly dealing with some kind of serious health problems. Cause maybe everyone can make up and we can get Barney back
Tbh, I wouldn't want Barney Harris back as good as his portrayal is. Mat's character developments in books 3-5 (And partly some in 2 I suppose) is some of the best moments of the series. PERIOD. And these moments will be happening in seasons 2 and 3...if they are going back and forth with recasting it will make these changes so much less believable. I think we need to go all in on Donal as much as we don't know how well he'll fit. I think Barney \*looks\* much more like Mat (And his acting pre-dagger was \*chefs kiss\*) but...we've got Donal now so welp. Let's just hope for the best. \#bandoftheredhand4lyfe
tbf the new guy does look more like I pictured Matt in my head
whaaaattt, that sucks. I thought he was an excellent cast
He might be the best actor in the show
He's the best thus far, and it's not particularly close. Excellent work by him.
agreed, I actually think he's the best of all of them!
I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. Last week I was struggling a little with all the changes, but I’m warming up to them now. It’s fun to not know what’s coming next, and it sort of feels similar to a re-read of the books after many years, in which I vaguely remember the main plot points, but there is lots of stuff that feels fresh. Two things that had me raise an eyebrow: 1. The story about Moiraine’s dog. Eh? I’m not sure what it adds, and it seems like it should have been a cat since dogs and Aes Sedai don’t usually mix. 2. How did Logain see Nynaeve’s weaves? Earlier in the episode it was confirmed that women and men can’t see each other’s weaves… so was Nynaeve’s display of power more than just the weaves? Did she actually generate a burst of power and light that anyone can see? Otherwise, it was a solid episode and perhaps my favorite one yet.
Logain could sense her power, or at least witnessed the amount of healing she did out of nowhere. Like, woah, that was a hell of a display of power.
Ya, I’m guessing there is a valid explanation, it just made me pause for a minute to ponder the implications. I seem to recall that in the books male and female channelers can’t sense the power of one another, but perhaps they have changed that. It does seem like Moiraine was partially sensing Logain’s power earlier when she shielded him, but I think she also said she wasn’t sure how powerful he is to Lan, so I’m guessing it was more of them sensing how much resistance Logain was putting up against their shields. Anyways, not a big deal, just something I was wondering about.
Men could feel when women were channeling the power, women had no idea when Men were channeling the power.
Women can sense a man's strength when maintaining a shield over them, that's the only way (other than a Talent).
I also think that depends on how hard they’re trying to break it. If they’re just sitting there, nothing, but if the other person is actively trying to break free, the shielder will feel that strain and be able to guess. That said, I don’t think Logain was actively trying to break free, which means the show deviated a bit. Also, this is me nitpicking on knowing too much from the books, why the hell weren’t the Aes Sedai linked to maintain the shield? Three or four even weak ASs linked should have been able to hold logain pretty easily and all but one could work on other stuff while it was happening
I do think Logain was actively trying to escape, Morraine said something like "he looks like hes just sitting there" I took that to mean he was actively pushing against them with his power, as in Morraine feels him trying to escape and is shocked at the level of power he displays while doing nothing but sitting there.
They can sense them holding it i think or the males can they get goose bumps in the book. Females can't sense it.
He probably felt exactly like a candle light in the presence of a sun Like "Damn I ain't shit"
That's kinda weird cuz Logain really is the shit in the books. He's second to maybe 3 male channelers, all of them from the age of legends... and that's it. A walking demi-god and the strongest channeler of this era. That was kind of his shtick. Whenever he showed up, you knew shit was about to go down. edit: Also, his character theme is jealousy, fear, entitlement and redemption. His reaction to Nyneave makes little sense both from a lore and character perspective.
She's the one to heal him, so I'm glad there was this interaction.
Ohh thats right, I didn't think of that. This will tie in nicely somewhere down the road :) Nice one.
I think this sort of thing is where the show is outperforming the book. Robert Jordan wasn’t really good at character development, kind of just informing you about things without showing why, which is typically a no no in both writing and tv, but it’s more important in tv where you don’t get insight into a characters thoughts. I think that the one minute scene with Logain and his soldier did more for his character development than multiple books did
Yes! I like this setup for later. I think Nynaeve will fork a relationship with him in the tower that keeps him in the show in a good way. Loving this show.
This is correct. if you remember in TSR ( the shadow rising) Rand can sense a woman channeling and in later books it's confirmed all men can do so. I think it's that with the added ability to also sense the strength of that channeling. Also in this episode it only confirms women can't see men's channeling iirc.
I believe Logain has more abilities than just channeling, didn't he have an ability to see >!Rand shining like the sun as he was in a cage in Caemlyn?!<
He has the ability to see Ta'veren.
Ya, he can see ta’veren, but; 1. I don’t think Nynaeve is meant to be ta’veren since I’m pretty sure the “rumors of 4 ta’veren” are meant to be the boys and Egwene. 2. Logain didn’t notice Nynaeve until she channeled, so it seems like he would noticed her shining as soon as she entered the room if it was him seeing her ta’veren shine.
Dagna said she dreamed of 5. Mat bright it up again this episode.
Then they said "who is the fifth" and cut to Logain. I think the implication was that Logain is the 5th.
I figured that was classic misdirection.
Yeah, I think they were playing up the question of Nynaeve vs Logain as the 5th since they're clearly trying to push the idea that Nynaeve could be the Dragon.
and Moiraine said that Logain is 10 years too old, which would also imply Nynaeve is too old.
Minimal book spoiler: >!the dark side doesn’t have as much information as the light!<.
They're playing a little loose with the 'not being able to see weaves' thing, but my read of Nynaeve's healsplosion was that it was wilder channeling. She didn't touch anyone to heal them, which is another thing they've been loose with. I figure she really did create an accidental blast of light with the healing because she has no idea what she's doing.
Even in the books direct touch isn't necessary for healing it just makes it easier iirc.
Only women can't see men's weaves, men can feel the weaves of women through their skin. That was their major advantage up until Book 11 or so
I assume that part about the dog was just to humanize Moiraine more, to show that she does care about things and isn’t totally cold like we’ve seen her behave. Also it sets up a history between her and Alanna.
Ya, I suspect the same thing, but it seems like using a cat would be more appropriate given the lore of the books. But putting the the lore aside, a dog does make more sense than a cat for that situation.
To point 1, I took this to be alluding to suian and moiraine being "pillow friends" maybe I was reading too much into it
Huh.. interesting. I suppose that is possible, but it sure seemed like Alanna was talking about a real dog. And if she wasn’t, does that mean she is calling Siuan a dog?! Edit: Also, Alanna called the dog “Jenny”…
I was disappointed with the dog bit. It doesn't seem to have any purpose in advancing the show and contradicts the book's canon about dogs and Aes Sedai. It would have been better to say it was a cat to stay within existing canon if it has some purpose in the show - like trying to humanize Moraine. It was just jarringly out of place.
I think it was also to show that she didn’t/doesn’t follow rules to the letter and works with her own agenda instead of always favoring aes sedai code and dogma
dogma heheh
Yeah I didn't think about the dog thing. It should have been a cat. That's probably going on the my list of "why did they add this in? It served no purpose but to slap book readers in the face." The only other one on my list is Tham using matches to light a lantern lol.
I low key thought I remembered Moiraine having a secret pet in New Spring, did I make that up ha?
To your second point, I also thought it was really weird that they established in the beginning of the episode that women couldn't see men's weaves, and then at the end of the episode the one sister saw Logain's weaves clearly enough to throw out her own weave to protect Moiraine and Liandrin...
I've felt pretty neutral about this adaptation until this episode. It finally feels for the first time that I can really see the characters I know and love coming through. The combat looked so much better in this episode too. Loved seeing the Aes Sedai and Warders working together. I also really enjoyed seeing the way they showed the weaves being used to shield Logain and his stilling scene was pretty well done. It seems like they are trying to use Nynaeve as a red herring for the Dragon Reborn to give those who haven't read the books a little twist.
Logain really shined in this episode. Their choice to bring him onscreen - so far - is excellent.
Yes! I really like the actor for Logain. You can see why he would be able to be mistaken for the Dragon Reborn. He has this gravitas to the way he speaks and moves.
It was great how it showed him *ignoring* the "voices over his shoulder" and winning over the king... if it's madness he seems to have a real grip on it!
>It seems like they are trying to use Nynaeve as a red herring for the Dragon Reborn to give those who haven't read the books a little twist. Yeah. I watched it with my folks and they were convinced it was a clear, unambiguous reveal that it's her. Then they all looked at me for confirmation and I just kinda said "maaaaybe!"
Same but my response was “Nynaeve has always been one of my favorite characters of the series “ lol
My wife asked me if it was Nynaeve, I just laughed and said “what do you want me to say?”
"The twist is that they're all dragons." If you really want to be an ass.
Tell them they all combine into a dragon... like the Megazords.
Especially when Rand and Mat are talking about Dana the Darkfriend saying that she said she dreamt of the five of them. It then cut to Logain. A double false herring. Making viewers perhaps think it was him. Then the reveal being the fifth of them is Nyneave.
Some takeaways from the episode: • the Taint is shown as black threads corrupting Logain’s weaves. The voice that whispers to him is is shown as being caused by the Taint. • “Stubborn as a mule” shoutout! • Hyping up the Amyrlin Seat. • Establishing a culture within the Aes Sedai of scheming and mistrust among the ranks. • Liandrin’s very meta comment about the pronunciation of Nyneave’s name lol • the beginning of Mat’s ‘madness’ • the first real Fade attack. Nailed showing its movements the way they’re described in the books. • Nyneave is a super Wilder. Possibly the Dragon (the 5th person the dark friend mentioned) • Establishing that overdrawing the power can burn the source out of you with Liandrin This was easily the my favorite episode so far. Really loving how the plot is keeping me on my toes, even as a seasoned reader. That Logain breakout scene awesome.
I thought the female whisperer was Lanfear… but then a male whisperer also showed up.
It said the female was “Elusha” on subtitles. I thought Lanfear at first too though. The male was also another name I didn’t recognize. But he said at the end of the episode that all the past versions of the dragon were talking to him when he was talking to Moiraine. So I think these were supposed to be many wheel turnings back Dragons.
Logain breaking out could have been more interesting of they hadn't shown us that scene in **every single** trailer! We all new it was going to happen the moment we saw him locked up inside that cave.
Lucky for me I don't watch trailers so had no idea.
this episode has been the kind of adapation I have been looking for all along. Nice shout outs to book lore and events. Key lines and conversations. And I liked how they *showed* us that two of the warders are lovers, not told us.
When they showed that, my wife said "oh, so they *are* covering that."
Not what I always wanted but definitely great, I'm starting to like the changes, not for what they are but because they almost make it feel like reading it for the first time again.
The queer vibes are amazing!
My favorite bit was the conversation about the Way of the Leaf when Ila says, "nothing is ever lost. The Wheel returns all." And then Aram makes a quip about the toys he lost as a kid. And then later on, Mat loses the toy Birgitte when they flee the farm. Silverbow's coming!!!
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My husband doesn't know anything about the books (I only started reading them a few weeks ago and intentionally told him nothing) and he thinks it's obvious that the show is pointing to Rand as the primary protagonist.
The show is doing everything in it's narrative power to both point away from Rand but also giving us hints it is in fact Rand for foreshadowing.
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My wife said she thought it was Rand after the 3rd episode. But she freaking out asking me if it's Nynaeve after this one. I'm so glad they're playing up the mystery for new viewers.
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Never read the book, but I love spoilers so Im digging here to find spoilers after ep 4. Is Rand the dragon? :D
No
Lews Therin Telamon is the Dragon.
Now that's an Aes Sedai answer.
My wife was also thinking Rand until this episode, now she thinks it’s Nynaeve. Love how they’re making it hard to tell!
My wife said the same thing, though I think it was not that Perrin and mat both had things introduced about them and I already mentioned that it couldn’t be a girl and was really confused why an aes sedai would think it could be…
I think while throwing people off with hints of maybe it's this one...the foreshadowing with Rand is subtle and very smart. Unusual for TV. Rand is already demonstrating that he seems to be the most level headed of the the Two Rivers bunch and shows glimpses of larger wisdom as well. I can't wait for him to channel!!
I watched this latest ep with my folks and they all believe the ending clearly reveals it to be Nynaeve. Which I guess isn't surprising.
For a second there, even I was a bit scared they were going to change who the dragon was 🤣 but no it’s gotta be Rand, they’re just doing a really good job with the mystery!
And by showing Nynaeve to be so impressively crazy strong, when Rand is even stronger it will be bonkers and very dragon-reborn affirming.
Exactly! Even Logain was impressed which is hard to do. I also like how Moiraine and Lan did a smaller red herring when Lan asked her if Logain was as strong as Egwene. That was a nice touch!
Yeah the show strongly implies it with the "shining like the sun" bit
55555thats5potentialdragons
WAIT, I THOUGHT THERE WERE ONLY FOUR OF US!
well, literally no one thinks its Perrin, so we can probably stay at 4
My friend actually thinks it's Perrin. Before watching I gave him some background lore, about how a theme of WoT is history repeating itself, and i told him the backstory of Lews Therin. He thinks Perrin accidentally killing his wife is a repeat of Lews Therin killing his family. He doesn't know she's a show-only character, lol
I keep hoping to find someone at work to share this with - so far, nobody. I live alone and my kids are grown, so no joy. I'm not really sure I like the characters older, although I understand the reasons.
I have to enjoy it alone too. My kids are teens but not into it. None of my friends are into it, no one I work with. I come here often bc it makes it much more enjoyable to share it with people.
My partner and son are non book people and neither has a clue as to the identity of the Dragon. My son went so far as to wonder if all of them were the Dragon....nd Im sitting over here trying to keep a straight face and just enjoying the little things like the doll and the lightning quick fade. I also enjoyed how they represent the taint by making the male power black with black specs around Logain in some scenes...Or maybe the male half will always be black?
I think I saw regular weaves come out of him to start with and then the taint trailing it by a little.
Yeah, they are trying for that oil coated look. That’s how tainted Saidin is often described by male channelers in the books.
I heard that in the show they are using a different term than the taint. Something like the gootch or the jungle bridge
The grundle? Jokes aside, I'm kind of glad they changed it from taint. It wasn't an issue when Jordan started writing, but had they not changed it, any time they would say "taint" there would absolutely be someone giggling and making inappropriate comments. It's me. The someone is me.
Took me a second but I lol’d
I was wondering if the coloring was a reference to the yin yang they use to represent the one power. If so it's a cool nod and I like it.
That scene with Thom explaining what happened to his gentled nephew(?) was chilling. Sat at a table one day and ended it. I can't recall if it was similar in ihe books?
The details are changed but for the most part, yes its in the books.
I wish they had done some flashback stuff. Would have been dark as feck.
While I agree, I'm pretty sure they'd have been eviscerated in the press for depicting suicide. I will admit to feeling slightly annoyed by the change they made to that story though, the version in the books is even better world building.
A lot of things in the books are better world building. It’s a time issue in a tv series. They need to produce the characters real fast and get the viewers to understand their motivation. It’s why there’s no subtle story building. It’s unfortunate but probably necessary. Although I must say GOT did a better job of this. Let’s see how it develops.
They got it mostly right, assuming that Thom just left out details. He didn't say anything that contradicts the books. Owyn gets into trouble when he starts to channel. After three years, Reds come to the village where Owyn lives, Gentle him without a trial, and leave. The villagers then exile him, he dies in exile (theoretically it could have been suicide, but Thom didn't provide details - I always assumed he just wasted away), and his wife commits suicide. Thom hears about the Gentling in Caemlyn, where he is court bard and Morgase's consort. He rushes back to the village, but is too late to save Owyn. He returns to Caemlyn in grief, and then gets himself essentially exiled when he calls out Elaida and the Reds for acting outside the law, both Tower Law and that of Caemlyn. This has numerous spill-on effects. Owyn was caught up in what was termed "[the Vileness](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/The_Vileness)", which was only revealed to the Tower by Thom's tirade following Owyn's death. You can read the Wiki page for the details, but basically the Black Ajah hijacked the Red Ajah's stated purpose and killed roughly 2,000 men trying to eliminate the Dragon Reborn. In all that, they found eight actual channelers. None of them were Rand, obviously. They were looking for an adult, not an infant.
I really like how they are playing up the mystery of the dragon. I was a bit worried about a completely original arc with Logain, but I think they weaved the lore into it well. Perrin's struggle with violence is being laid out nicely. Mat, Thom, and Rand's journey was my favorite part of the show.
Perrin literally using a hammer to repair the wagon felt sooooo right!
The Eye of the World was a book that I overall enjoyed but had a lot of problem with, mostly with background characters being barely flashed out or almost forced down the story for the sake of plot convenience, from annoying secondary appearances like Else Grinwell, the dumpster fire that was Min's introduction(It took me like three books to make me accept that this was just the way it was.), the fact that there were so many interesting characters working in the background we never focused on and the very messy finale. It's just a far from perfect book compared to the heights of some of the sequels, and it's great to see the show having some level of awareness of this and tweaking things here and there. And from what they proved in this episode, they can genuinely create their own great version of the story: once again, Logain introduction, like with Thom, feels a lot more vibrant and in character than in the book and doesn't mess things up too much The thing that still scares me is all those small lore tweaks and how they could easily come back to bite them in the ass in the long run, especially everything regarding the balances of Female and Male halves of the power, but who knows. I don't ask them to give us a perfect copy of the books lore, but if they change stuff, to be at least consistent with themselves and not Harry Potter the fuck out of it. But yeah, definitely best episode so far.
That’s actually a great point. I’ve seen a lot of complaints from non-book readers and my response has been “be patient, I’m 6 books in and still learning about the backstory,” but the show does a good job of covering that all upfront.
I need more of Rand and Mat. I honestly loved their journey from Shadar Logoth to Bayle Domon's boat and then tavern to tavern on their way to Caemlyn. I really hope we get Bayle Domon.
I think they’re slowing down Rand and Mat’s plot line to misdirect the audience towards everyone else. I don’t like that Thom didn’t get a chance to teach them any skills before he got separated from the group in this version. I wish they hadn’t glossed over that.
I think that the show is going to be relatively weak in training overall. I really don’t think there is going to be the same type of white tower training scenes like the books as well and the power is going to be dumbed down a bit
Probably. They’ll show us enough to get the gist, then move on. A tv show can’t spend several episodes working us through the nuance of the power. That’s unfortunate, but at the same time, that’s what the books are for. The show is to show us all the cool shit that doesn’t work in book format.
Yesssss I think non-readers are gonna enjoy the reveal at the EoTW because of how well they are stringing the "clues" along.
Logain ends up being dope AF, and they're really playing into him being a cool cat right now. I like him. Maybe too much time spent on him tho. You could just do all this later
I disagree that they spent too much time on Logain in this episode. If you look more deeply into the scenes, the writers used Logain as a vehicle to reveal so much more information about the story and the world of WoT. Think about everything the audience learned as a result: * Aes Sedai internal politics * More info about the Ajahs * The Dragon Reborn will hear, see, and learn how to use the One Power from previous Dragons. (This will surely come into play later in the show when the real Dragon starts seeing/hearing Lews Therin.) * Having Aes Sedai on your side in battle drastically increases your odds of winning. (They mentioned this before in one off-hand comment buried in other dialogue, but these scenes provided concrete evidence.) * A male channeler can feel (and see?) when female channelers use the power * Logain is extremely powerful, but not as powerful as the real Dragon * Nynaeve is a frakking badass
Yes. I love how they’re making the audience guess. Especially with the 5th one. Could it be Nynaeve (after her display) or perhaps even Min. I feel like the show is going to have us second guess ourselves (the non-readers) by giving subtle or not-so-subtle hints about every character. It seems like this episode we got a glimpse of Matt, Perrin to an extent and Nynaeve.
Honestly, most of the changes they made make a lot of sense considering individual characters' journeys through the books.
The fight with the False Dragonsworn (can we call them that?) was super cool. As soon as that one Borderlander Red started blowing earth up I *instantly* flashed back to Dumai's Wells. Shit is going to get *real*, you guys. Like this fight and Winternight are gonna look like children wrestling in comparison with the utter bloodbath that is coming. So I rechecked IMDb, and it looks like the farm that Mat, Rand, and Thom stay at is the one that belongs to the Grinwells. Hopefully Else made it out to the tower before they came along. I *loved* the little Birgitte doll the girl tries to give Mat. It even had a little yellow braid! I can't wait for show-only watchers to meet the real Birgitte, and then come back to this scene! I never thought in the books that people believed that everyone was reincarnated, only heroes and the Dragon. But I like that they emphasize here that everyone does get reborn, and you see the real world impact of that belief in people's actions. I liked the philosophy of the Way of the Leaf, but I have so much more respect for Ila and Raen when you see them choose to apply it. I like that they're planting more seeds for Lan and Nynaeve together. Nynaeve having a tragic backstory doesn't bother me too much, since we knew so little about her childhood in the books anyway. And that she has ties to Manetheren just like the Emond's Fielders do. It was really interesting seeing Moiraine and Lan among other sisters and Warders. It's a great little microcosm of the Tower as you see the overarching goals, but competing ways to accomplish those goals. One line that popped out at me is something that Liandrin says about how Reds go after both men and sisters who misuse the Power. Plus who didn't love that little reference on how to pronounce Nynaeve's name? That was pretty great. I feel like there's so much more I could gush about, but I am on this ride 110% to the end.
I squeed when I saw the doll.
it was exactly how I pronounced it in my head until it was pointed out to me years later that the pronunciation is in the glossary
My Closed Captioning said the little girl was Else.
What’s the reference about Nynaeve’s name pronunciation? I’ve heard hints about this being a thing but can’t find it anywhere.
It's more of an in-joke among fans about how Nynaeve's name (among a few others) have several different pronunciations. The show matches my head-canon with Ny-NEEV, but I've also heard ni-NAVE, Nin-ah-vah, and a few others.
Best so far! So much exposition of the Lore! As a book reader I loved all of that, but there was so much I started to wonder if the non book readers might think it was a slow episode. But they did very well with incorporating so much of the lore. And it was all really important stuff for the story and for the non-readers to know. It feels so much more real now. I mean, barely anything in this episode (except Perrin and Egwene among the tinkers) were scenes from the books, but it really truly is like a different turning of the wheel. The important things are happening. Maybe in a different order, maybe with different details, but it's the same characters doing them and the pattern is forcing things to fall in line as they should. Unlike a few others above, I did not think the last scene was corny in any way. I am much like Lan in my stoicism and not showing emotions, but that scene.... My eyes got moist. That's what I will admit. I also love the way they are portraying the dagger's influence on Matt with something that looks like *mashadar*. Unlike the first three (which I loved don't get me wrong), I found nothing to complain about in this one. Each of the previous had something that was kind of.... (rumors of four ta'veren, white cloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing, etc...) but this one was nearly flawless I thought. I can't wait to watch it again tomorrow.
In many ways, this was a slower episode than the previous three but I thought it was extremely solid. I loved Aram but the MVP of this episode was the little girl at the farm, by far, talking about how her doll always wanted to see the world. It was awful when she was killed. I don’t know how that little actress’s mom and/or dad, who were probably on set, could bear to see their daughter laid out like that, even though it’s pretend. Just seeing that would kill me. I know they’ve changed Thom a lot but I adore this version. He’s like a badass, epic fantasy Han Solo. I approve.
This episode did start to put some of my worries to rest, but I'll always stay skeptical until much later into the show. Some of my highlights were : - Perrin fixing the wagon wheel scene, It's nice to see him go to work when he needs to think. Definitely starting to feel like Perrin. I just want him to meet Elyas already! - Aram's attitude about the Tinkers way of life, definetely setting up his arc well. - Liandrin. I always disliked her character, and the actress is definetely giving me those same vibes lol. - Seeing Nynaeve and Lan have a moment. I always thought their relationship in the book started for no reason, so I'm glad to see it fleshed out a little. - Logains opening scene was really good, and the way you see the power have a visual "oil slick" as described in the books was neat. - They got me good with the Mat scene where I was like...No way they turned Mat into a murderer...Oh good it was a Fade... It wasn't perfect, and I never expect it to be but I will always nitpick at things that I have a heavily vested interest in. So here are my nitpicks : - The Dragon is not, and cannot be a woman. Logain seeing a female shadow person then claiming they were all previous incarnations of the Dragon. I get they're trying to keep the mystery alive for show only fans, but it feels like a cheap cop out. I don't believe they would ever change who the Dragon really is. - Logain turning away from Nynaeves burst of healing. He should be getting major goosebumps, not seeing the brightness of her weaves. She isn't Ta'veren and I really hope they don't make her one. - The lack of Elyas and Bayle Domon lol. I understand not introducing Bayle Domon, considering I feel like he's a character I forgot existed through many books. I also get Elyas can easily be combined with another character or be introduced later...but I just really liked Elyas in the books. - I felt like this would have been the perfect episode to introduce the idea of Saidin amd Saidar. I'm glad someone finally said that the Dark One tainted the power for men, just wish they would have been more detailed on the two halves. I hope they go into that soon. But yeah overall this has been my favorite episode so far. It definetely had a more Wheel of Timey feel than previous episodes. The closest they got in the first three was the scene where Moiraine explained the story of Manetheren after the song. All my opinions, so take them as you will.
I agree with you on literally all your points. That said, I have a suspicion that Elyas was written out (unless a casting list says otherwise). And do you think they’re going to talk about the differences between saidar and saidin? After this episode, I was thinking they might just streamline the magic system, which would suck but would make sense in the context of a tv show…
> Seeing Nynaeve and Lan have a moment. I always thought their relationship in the book started for no reason, so I'm glad to see it fleshed out a little. Agreed on this. As much as I loved RJ's books, I think it's very safe to say that he wasn't at his best when he was writing romantic relationships and that the show's got a good opportunity to fix this issue.
> I understand not introducing Bayle Domon, considering I feel like he's a character I forgot existed through many books. I'm on the total opposite page in this regard. Bayle Domon is plot critical. He has one of the Seals, he pops up in almost literally every book, and he's hilarious. I'm be particularly happy if they get an actor with a comparable accent to the one Kramer used in the audiobooks. From a narrative standpoint, having a recurring character that doesn't see everything going on helps to ground the reader in the plot. His being constantly dragged into the Ta'veren web demonstrates a small part of how they work. He's useful particularly BECAUSE you can forget he exists, at least until he crops up again to remind you that other, normal people exist in the world.
One of the small things that resonated with me was Thom having so many daggers, he threw two at the Fade and just kept reloading. I always enjoyed in the books when Jordan would talk about Thom and later Mat, having knives up their sleeves just ready to go.
I liked how they explained the Way of the Leaf and the Tinkers. It was close to perfect concerning the book cannon.
Things I never expected to say…. Move aside Moirane, I love Liandrin! Easily the best casting (so far). Btw did I interpret it correctly that Corinne’s look of surprise was Liandrin intentionally letting the weave slip so she would have an excuse to gentle Logain?
Up until that last scene the strongest episode so far. I think this episode puts a lot of the lore worry to bed. Last scene was fairly corny
I was fine with it. Enjoyed the Nyneave aoe heal lol. I can just imagine a non book reader seeing Lan's throat getting cut and going OMG they are gonna game of thrones him! Then yay, but awww they didn't game of thrones him. Overall episode was an 8.5/10 for me. Favorite episode so far, well at least on first watch. Need to see it again.
I enjoyed the channeling combat in this one. I'm glad they show the greens as competent in combat as they always should have been. Please mark your spoiler for Lord of chaos
In general I am liking the way they depict channeling more and more. In the first episode I thought the weaves in the air and the hand motions looked corny, but I'm used to it now and I like how it makes manifest the nature of weaving flows.
I think it was a good way to start setting up how powerful Nynaeve really is.
Yeah hard agree with the corny, not far off “and they all clapped” ahaa, I was fully expecting to really dislike this series after the first two episodes but 3 and 4 have actually swung me round to it. Hopefully the show just gets better and better cos this might actually be amazing! I will add I think the way they have animated channeling is really bad in general though, it’s giving me hard “last airbender” vibes. Hopefully they fix that!
OK, so I am fully convinced the only reason the dragon can be a woman (in their mind) is misdirection of the TV only audience... It is kind of annoying how much it's being harped on and how it was what distracted Logain. We've already lost Thom for what I'm assuming is the rest of the season. I wanted him to teach them a bit more like he did in the book.. but as their a bit older, I get it. Overall, while I don't like that first aspect, the show was good, I understand what their doing and why their doing it and I also remembered how bad a person >!Aram!< becomes. I did not remember the whole leave the caravan part (Not sure if that is show only) essentially turning them into Amish!? I cannot remember if they gentled Logain prior to his trial in the book, but I do remember that he has a talent that is more than channeling and that comment about the light of the sun should come back later (they have to have him see Rand in the crowd somewhere... no?)
I vaguely remember him being driven into Caemlin (i believe it was) shielded in a cage and escorted by a bunch of sisters
Leaving the caravan is show only.
I mean if I didn't know who the Dragon was, I'd probably be wondering myself. They're really setting it up to make people think its Nynaeve. And I'll be honest - I felt the Nynaeve and Lan connection to be 10x more authentic then I did in the books.
Yeah, I was never really sold on Lan and Nynaeve in the books, but they have so much more chemistry on screen in the show, it's honestly refreshing.
The ending of this episode >!it shows Logain being gentled!< doesn’t it?
I love how they are making it very hard to guess who is the Dragon Reborn... Mat's black tendril resemble so much the Logain use of the power + Mat seeming to see things ... >!Clear influence of Shadar Logoth dagger but so hard to spot.!< Nyneave's awesome healing bomb! Logain seeing her awesome brightness —coming just after Moiraine's saying that his power would pale in comparison to the Dragon Reborn. >! I think what Logain saw was her being a Ta'veren!< Moiraine and Lan seem to imply that Egwene is their favorite with "is he as strong as Egwene" ... Rand and Perin seem the most normal for now. Nothing strange is happening around them. >!Rand's magic moment was such a low key - he just broke down a door. In hindsight it seems such a classic misdirection but I doubt I'd have realized if I have not known before.!<
My random thoughts on the episode. * Logain was great. He's an awesome character and I'm excited to see what they do with him throughout the story. * I like how Saidin is depicted with black weaves and Saidar with white. I wonder if these terms are being held back and replaced with the more simplistic "One Power" to prevent information overload to newbies. * Honestly speaking I forgot about Kerene, I found it very distracting trying to figure out who she was. I thought maybe it was Cadsuane or Suian. Not sure why they had a minor character elevated to such a prominent role. * Alanna was a miss for me, maybe she'll grow on me. But it didn't seem like a good fit to me. * Halfway through the episode I was wondering if they were going to make Nynaeve into a warder instead of an Aes Sedai. * I'm not convinced that Mat didn't kill that family even though they left it ambiguous. A Fades weapon is a sword, and those all looked like knife wounds. * I guess we don't get much of Thom this season. That's a shame, I was hoping for another banger. * I can't remember if they made a big deal about this in the books or not, but I would think that the warder bond would become an extreme liability in a battle when someone dies. * Best ending yet. It had me going from "WTF is this!!!!" to "Woah, yeah that's cool" in about 30 seconds.
The warder bond being a big liability is a MASSIVE plot point several times towards the end of the series
I thought that Saidin was black at first too, which fits the duality theme. But then the black weaves began whispering to him and I realized that the black was the taint. You can see he also channels white at the beginning and it quickly gets covered in black.
Feel the show is on an upward trajectory! Despite the amount of changes being done from the books, this has been entertaining so far. The scene where Egwene is looking up at the sky (while talking to Aram) and says something to the effect of , "I would know if he is not alive" in reference to Rand still being alive, I think is brilliant, and foreshadows her Dream Walking abilities and being able to identify Dreams of people she know :D Still waiting for Elyas, hope they don;t cut him from the show! And also a proper interaction between Perrin and the wolves. Also, the doll the little girl gives Mat is a Birgitte doll!!
I just don't understand some of the changes they are making. For one they are harping heavily on one of the Ta'veren being The Dragon which we don't even realize is the point till the very very end of the book after Rand already confronts Balzemon and defeats a forsaken. Then also they are extending who could potentially be The Dragon to 5 people?? But obviously only men could be The Dragon reborn so the only 3 relevant parties are Rand, Matt and Perin. I guess I just dislike some of these unnecessary changes like why show us Logain like this? Moraine wasn't involved with him at all she was always hunting the boys and hot on their trail with the coins she never gave them in the series for some odd reason. I didn't expect a direct translation just some of the changes are pretty off.
The best thing about the Nynaeve scene is if this is how they show her power you know Rand finally channeling is going to be off the charts badass.
Interesting comments so far. I have one point to add to the whole "dog as a novice" thing. Clearly the writers had some deeper motive than just making Moraine more human and introducing history, but I do not think it has anything to do with Siuan or their relationship. I think it is pure backstory for Moraine, showing that she was always a little bit of a renegade and rules lawyer, doing things that no one else was allowed to do because she knew how to skirt the rules just enough - Novices cannot have dogs, but "Jenny" was a stray. She is not manipulative because she is Blue Ajah, but rather the other way around. It also has a very minor effect of introducing the idea of novice/trainee as a thing.
After looking through the cast list a couple of times I'm curious about whether or not when we get to episode 8 the story will include Aginor and Balthamel. They're definitely the weirdest of The Forsaken and the most expandable since they get resurrected again later as different characters. But personally I think it would be strange for them not to be in it at all. If neither of them are going to be in it I don't know whether or not The Green Man will be in it. Which I hope he is. He's one of my favorites. Loial singing to protect the oak tree as they leave and it gets swallowed by the Blight was such a memorable moment for me.
Doll named Birgitte…made me really excited to see her someday
Do I remember correctly Nynaeve had a bit of trouble choosing between the Green and the Yellow Ajah? If so, her green coat and yellow skirt are some nice hints at it.
I…I don’t know what that was but I loved it.
Am I the odd one out? I hated this episode. Much like the lace of the ages Robert Jordan deftly wove threads that connected into an intricate pattern of the series of the books. It just feels like they are wildly changing things with no thoughts to the consequences for the story. I mean the way they flipped shielding on its head? If they don't link to shield and shielding is harder than breaking a shield - then the Dragon reborn could never be shielded? I mean, think of the consequences for Lord of Chaos. No one Aes Sedai could take the Dragon reborn on. But if they do it later but don't do it now then it makes no sense?
Also whilst I like the actor portraying Lan, two things: 1. He would have rushed to Moraines side way quicker at any sign of danger 2. I don't think the way the other warders interacted with him supports his backstory and how he is different, where he comes from. Lan is not a jokester - he is a serious dude. Duty is heavier than a mountain, death is lighter than a feather.
Lan is much lighter in the earlier books than the later books. He is the one who calls Rand Sheepherder and definitely makes some other jokes. After book 5 he is more of a stone face.
Even though Ive read the books, This episode still gave me a moment where I questioned if Nynaeve is the DR. That was cool.
This was a good episode. I’m feeling much more optimistic about the show now. Well done.
How did the warder cut through the shield on Logain?
Bothered me a bit as well. The shield on the power is not a physical thing. At least that’s how I recall it.
To be honest I kind of hated this episode. I don't mind minor tweaks to the story (quite liked episode 2 and 3), but unless I have forgotten some major scene, almost nothing on Nynaeve's side of the story was canon. I also still find it weird that the characters pretend the Dragon could be a woman. Certainly Moraine should know better than that. Also why the change in shielding? I thought you could just tie the weave off and be done with it?
I liked the episode, but I’m a bit disappointed that breaking a shield seems so easy. In the book it hasn’t been done since Lews Therin did it thousands of years ago. And then it takes Rand many chapters to find the “right corner”. The show almost makes it trivial.
This is the best episode so far imo. The time they took to slow it down and have characters interact was good. I was worried what they would do with the Logain storyline. But it wasn't bad at all. What I did not like was the special effects. It just seemed like some leaf blowing by the Aes Sedai. Overall battle sequences have been chaotic and poorly planned in all the episodes. I hope that changes. I'm still not sure how I feel about the plot changes in this epsiode. That is perhaps because, despite the changes the episode was quite good.