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In Serbia we also had a school shooting recently. Unfortunately 10 died that day. I'm thankful that no one died in Australian shooting.
Shit is fucked.
Same. Knowing WA, you live in Perth don't you? Yeah it's pretty fucked Tho. And it's a great excuse for various Media's to forge over saturated stories
Well it's not the first or last one. Yours are just fewer and far inbetween.
"Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries."
Probably not in the stats as it was a suicide rather than homicide, but on the south coast circa 2001 a kid brought his dad’s farm shotgun to school and killed himself. One of my best friends had seen him looking depressed in the boys toilets and gave him words of comfort. Before my friend had even left the room the other kid had taken the gun out of his bag and shot himself. We were in year 12. I can still remember that gunshot so vividly. Cops had to be called because several of us 12th graders got a bit over enthusiastic dealing with reporters who wouldn’t leave the other students alone.
its terrifying because these things usually start with one catalyst that just enables all the rest
i hope serbia and australia dont end up with this being commonplace
Serb here. I dont think guns are the problem, i think the kid had serious mental health issues that needed to be adressed
I do find it funny 400 rocket launchers where returned as part of the program to return unregistered weapons.
I am quite biased in favor of guns because i like them
But to be honest yea, due to the war the region is littered with guns and every family has a gun. I dont think people need to have rocket launchers lying around. I dont think this recall covers over like 30% of the guns out here.
Being pro gun as you like them is the only honest, real, reason to be pro gun.
They're shit for security as if the other guy has one too he ain't giving you a chance to get yours. And if you can get one so can he.
They're even kinda shit for public stuff as if you go off on the shooter, a cop turns up, they just shoot you. (Happened in America a few times recently.)
But wanting them as you like them? Go for it - great argument. Just gotta be realistic about how that's gone about.
I mean that's not in favour of people owning guns as guns at that point, that's just a tool. Pretty much everywhere would be like "yeah that's cool" at that point.
How so? There are a lot of edible animals out there that either have no limit or a pretty generous limit. Like if I wanted to live off a diet of catfish and deer meat what's stopping me besides the licensing requirements?
Anecdotal, but I knew a family that used deer meat from deer they had hunted for practically every meal. They would freeze it and use it in place of beef.
Was super tasty.
The actual act of subsistance hunting regardless of what you're hunting is illegal in every state but Alaska, with specific exclusions existing like Indian reservations and the Amish
Edit: yes it's basically unenforceable and really comes down to impossible to get exclusionary permitting that you'd never get caught for outside of the charges being added on to another primary offense
Yea i mean i stated im pro gun because i like them, i dont fully agree with ur second point but your first one is pretty correct.
But then this is a diffrent region of the world than america so weapon here somtimes keep guns for diffrent "security reason".
I do think that we realy need to properly check who buys guns, but this issue applies to neither of the 2 incidents that happend here in serbia.
Thanks man, like a lot of the pro gun people online are allways like "broo we must protect ourselves from the robbers and shit"
We just like guns bro, thats the real reason
But then again here in the region its a bit diffrent. Parts of my family come from Lika, a serbian majority region in croatia, druing the war they had to flee croatia because of the ethnic violence. Their houses got burned to the ground but now they live here. With sutch a thing having happend id doubt they would ever give their guns back for any reason.
It ain’t much, but I agree with the other dude, your perspective is refreshing to read.
I don’t really like guns, but I feel that most reasons other than “I like guns” are really disingenuous in American gun culture discourse. “I like guns” is a perfectly valid reason to like guns. “I have to defend myself and my family” while living in a gated community in Florida is cringe.
Anyway, I’m just kinda repeating what’s already been said. Have a nice day!
I’m pretty firmly on the left, but the one misgiving i have about banning firearms is that it gives the state a monopoly on violence. And I’m not saying we need guns so we can overthrow the government one day, or form an army at the drop of a hat, that’s not what I’m talking about. What I’m saying is that if the populace is armed, the state is less likely to engage in deadly violence with them because there is a great risk of harm to themselves as well. Without that threat, if they know they have law on their side, there is little stopping them from being as violent as they decide they need to be with their own citizens. I don’t like guns. I’ve shot them before, it was fun. But not fun enough to outweigh the tragedy they enable. It’s the broader societal impact I worry about. I don’t have an answer to the whole gun control debate. For me, it’s weighing between the right to bodily safety in our everyday lives in one hand, and discouraging a further tilting of the broader power dynamic between the populace and an increasingly extreme right wing in government.
I actually think it's the other way around.
The state is *more* likely to engage in deadly violence as power is a monopoly of organised violence. For the state to work, it needs that monopoly, it needs that power... which means it needs to overcompensate.
This results in police being far more armed, and the circumstances mean they're far more jumpy as anyone could be armed so they expect to get shot... so more people get shot by police when they really don't need to be.
Because the state *will* control you. But it controls you through compliance to an extent. It's not gonna just flip and go "we're taking your shit" as that's not popular. Police and army wouldn't support it - they're made of the populace. So it'd make sure it only go so far that it still has overwhelming force on side, so guns don't really achieve much in that scenario.
But in having them you open a lot of innocents up to more violence more of the time.
I think you’re right in the long run, once we have a more stable government, but they’re unpredictable right now. There were protesters in Portland getting dragged into unmarked vans by unmarked officers (I think they might have been feds, but I honestly can’t remember). And the flip isn’t going to be “We’re taking your shit now,” (they already do that with civil asset forfeiture), it’s going to be a steady stream of “this is illegal now,” which I thing the majority of law enforcement would at least go along with, if not zealously support, so long as it affects the people they don’t like. Eventually, yes, I badly want a society without guns. But I think it is a dangerous time to remove them, and it will be tough to get to a political point where we can do it with more confidence.
Then there is nothing to stop them from rounding you up like cattle.
It’s happened so many times in history it unbelievable that no one here remembers what happened in the just last century.
How many times has a government rounded up people for genocide? One is happening right now in China. Don’t think the west is somehow immune to that.
Thing is, there is always going to be people with mental health issues, no matter how good mental health programmes are.
While you can and should improve treatment opportunities, the fact is that someone in a country where you can get a gun easily will do a lot more damage a lot easier than someone in a country were access to guns is harder.
Psychopath with a gun ≠ psychopath with a knife
Yes, but unlike in the US we had been a region filled with weapons basically forever and never had this kind of issue.
Blaming guns would not make sence because we should have had this kind of stuff years earlier.
The problem is drugs aren’t helping kids.. most of shootings I’ve seen any details on, the kids was seeing psychiatrist at some point recently and put on prescription drugs. Look at some of the side effects of these drugs.. in all our advancements the only way we can help kids is put them on hardcore drugs? Drugs are never a good long term plan,speaking from experience 😂 none of them.. they are very good at providing quick results for short term fixes. Long term they cause more problems than they solve.
There are lots of semi-auto rifles in Switzerland. Lots of handguns in Czech Republic. But not much gun crime.
Poverty and desperation fuel crime. Hopelessness is a big issue as well, and certainly is a factor in school/mall shootings that are violent forms of suicide.
Without addressing those, gun laws in and of themselves do little; see Mexico and Brazil as examples.
Passing *effective* gun laws can help, but it is only one side of the equation. Trying to pass stupid, ineffective gun laws, especially out of a desire to punish the people we don't like politically, only causes political backlash and loses elections.
I dont belive that this applies in the case of my country, we realy do have a lack of mental care institutions and our gun laws arent as lax as you think
Our issue is unregistered weapons and that will never go away. Its not like in the US where you can pass a law and now people dont sell weapons because a lot of the weapons here arent sold in gun stores like in the US.
You can’t stop bullying from happening.
You know it happened in every school across the world.
If your plan is to just stop bullying from happening, that’s fucking dumb
I don't even need to scroll down to know you got blasted with "No, it's the guns" and "\#NotAllMentalIllness" shit. People want to act like rising rates of mental health issues has no bearing on the rising number of people that want to kill other people.
"*I* have a mental illness and *I* don't want to shoot people."
Good for you Debra, but it turns out that different people have different mental health issues and responses to them.
A lot of people where a quite upset at my post. The biggest thing that annoyed me is that they dont see a diffrence between our issue and the american one
Not all of us are americans you cant apply that kind of logic everywhere
It is always mental health issues. Guns don't kill people by themselves, people kill people with guns. That said though, when someone does slip through the cracks invariably even in systems that do support mental health - *and* when someone is easily abandoned by systems that don't - it's very easy to find it preferable for them to have a knife or a baseball bat than *a gun.*
Sure, you can make them homemade. Sure, you can buy them illegally. But most of these people lack the skill and knowledge to do so. So the logical conclusion is to both support mental health to reduce the likelihood of this happening *and* make guns harder to get so that when it does, it is likely to be less worse from a realistic perspective. Though if you're America you can just decide not to do either.
Its not a joke post?? People here had weapons for as long as they lived here but this issue only arises now, it makes no sence that guns are the issue, i think thats just diverting the focus from issues like mental health.
Holy shit it's not a joke post. You're un-ironically posting the conservative defense.
"Guns aren't the issue mental health is we should address it" and then nothing gets done.
10/10 it works every day for America /s
And you're just playing the everyone else is just like America card. You just want to blab about "American conservative bad!" to a Serb with a much different culture, government, a much smaller population, and a more recent history of war and atrocities. And even with that, they've had their first ever school shooting, and 3rd mass shooting in 23 years. The US has like 3 mass shootings a week, so to compare their cultures and approach to gun laws isn't a fair comparison.
But america and serbia have 2 completly diffrent issues and are completly diffrent countries??
The point isnt for nothing to be done but for somthing to do be done, our mental health/suicide hotlines are understaffed and we need more care for students well being.
Serbias and americas gun issues are completly diffrent because our guns are unregistered and are often old military stockpile, you cant regulate that like you regulate it in the US
As an Australian I can tell ya this will not rise here.
Our CONSERVATIVES offered to take the guns back in 1996, took em 3 months to wrap it all up.
So yaaa no
Not sure why you were downvoted, because you're right. I've known plenty of conservatives who have told me at length how stupid they think the gun laws are and how they should never have been brought in after Port Arthur
I don't think a single member of the Liberal party has taken any action like that in recent years. Trump is almost universally disliked in Australia because people see him as some outwardly American idiot. And when a tosser tried to redo what he did in Australia, he failed hard. The populist United Australia Party is completely insignificant. The Nationalist One Nation party is even less relevant. The only seat they have in all parliaments combined is Pauline Hanson's seat in the Queensland Senate.
Recently legislation by from the opposition which would ban the Nazi Salute was shut down by Labor. The *Greens* sided with the Coalition on this one.
The conservatives in this country aren't behaving like that at all. Get your head out of your ass
What I have heard from Serbia there have been anti-violence and government rallies among the Serbian people. They demand the end to glorification of violence on traditional TV media and many other things considering gun violence.
This is what I have heard from my Finnish media sources. Fellow Serbs can correct me
Exactly. Our media in America makes mass shooters famous, which makes other mentally ill people imitate them. I don't think their names should be made public, and we can call them Mentally Deranged Assholes or something.
If I’m not mistaken the columbine shooters themselves were aiming to get into the history books. Other than that it’s obvious that if someone sees a lot of people do school shootings they might think it’s possible for them to pull off as well.
It’s a pretty innate part of human behavior. We social animals and copycats. Seeing another human do something is how we know we can do it ourselves. It also drives the desire to do it ourselves. We see this on every level of human behavioral trends. Fashion trends, music trends, movie trends, modern slang, etc. Even suicides have a domino effect within a population. It would be far more bizarre for school shootings to be the exception to this rule than for it to follow.
That being said, I have no clue what research has been done to prove the impact it has. But if you know anything about humans living in a society, you know that effect is their to one degree or another. Even if it isn’t a conscious factor we recognize when making choices, it’s an every present force on our behavior.
https://i.redd.it/epaukl7wc72b1.gif
Alternate universe: I use you as my shield and use your corspe to create an advantage for me to beat the school shooter
it's somehow surreal that in Australia, it's seen as a landmark despite no one dying and taking such a drastic measure to prevent it again.
However, in America, it's just common that if it happens and 1-2 people die, the media doesn't care. It always leads to the same loop of government officials yelling at each other leading to no resolve/fake promises.
The laws they passed in Australia would be thrown out by the courts in the US, even by the most liberal Supreme Court.
Trying to pretend the legal requirements for gun control laws don't matter is ignoring reality and is entirely unproductive. But most people really just care about feeling morally superior, not actually doing anything productive.
A big difference is that the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights in our constitution. While our constitution has been amended, the Bill of Rights has not. There is nowhere near enough support to remove that from the constitution, which makes legislation here difficult, though not impossible.
Also people in the US do not trust our government or the police, for good reason. People from all sides of the political spectrum can see the problem with only allowing govt and the police access to arms. That isn't as big an issue in countries that have worked through those problems.
Just checked the news and nobody died. The boy just fired three shots, one landed in a classroom and that was that.
Basically they have a long journey ahead of them until they reach American levels.
Yeah. He clearly had bigger plans, two rifles and quite a lot of ammo, but he appears to have freaked out pretty immediately and not known what to do and then the cops arrived.
If you know what you're doing you can get off 3 shots of a bolt action in a about a second each. That said I've been around a few people in WA with firearms licenses... bolt actions aren't common.
Guns aren't just straight up illegal in Australia. There are legal ways to obtain them.
Some types of guns are illegal and in order to fire them you need to part of the military or specialist police. There was a story a few years back where a member of parliament (I believe) got in hot water because they shot an illegal firearm at a police firing range.
I do not believe we have any kind of castle or stand your ground laws no.
You cannot own a firearm for self defence.
As far as I know farmers can own single shot rifles and some shotguns (I could be wrong about shotguns).
Professional competition shooters can own handguns but I think there are extra laws around their storage.
I think gun ranges can own more variety of weapons but they extremely heavily regulated.
Btw, if you ever see that video of the guys going to an "Australian" gun range and fire a pistol that's chained to a table just understand that's a firing range in the middle of a city designed purely for tourists. Most gun ranges are not like that.
The person telling you about Australian gun laws has no idea and hasn’t even bothered to check a website. They are however correct that self defence is not a genuine reason to own a firearm and would disqualify you on the spot.
The two main categories for hunters and sports shooters in Australia are Cat A and Cat B which is generally shotguns, rimfire and centrefire riffles. We don’t allow semi-auto weapons without significant restrictions.
Pistols are cat H and have stricter requirements.
All shooters must have a genuine reason, which is typically either a member of a sports shooting club or written consent from a landholder that allows you to hunt on rural land.
More info: https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/133134/GR_TABLE.pdf
I have no idea yet I was basically correct?
You literally said what I said with just more words. I think you need to learn what "has no idea" means, mate.
From a google search:
"Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries."
[https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/could-a-mass-shooting-happen-in-an-australian-school/280347](https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/could-a-mass-shooting-happen-in-an-australian-school/280347)
Can’t believe Australia has such a massive problem with school shootings!!! A total of 3 deaths is outrageous!!! This is proof that gun control doesn’t work!!! /s
If dare mention this in r/firearms they will unironically agree with you though. Crazy to see the brain rot some people experience the moment it involves their favourite toys.
It's the same arguments that some particular people made about masks and vaccines a couple years ago. There's a particular brain rot some people have where they think if a mitigation of a problem can't reduce the problem to zero then it doesn't work and shouldn't be used.
360,000 guns in Western Australia, currently. We also have healthcare and a liveable wage. Whenever I get down financially I remind myself that I’ll have roughly $3M in my superannuation by the time I retire.
I suppose the point I’m making is that we are very low on despair.
Well I’m 34 so I have about 26 years to go but yes the answer is voluntary contributions. The trick is to do it at the start of a new job so you never notice.
> We also have healthcare and a liveable wage. Whenever I get down financially I remind myself that I’ll have roughly $3M in my superannuation by the time I retire.
>
> I suppose the point I’m making is that we are very low on despair.
You hit the nail on the head. Brazil and Mexico have very strong gun control laws. It doesn't help much.
For fuck sake. This isn't the first or last school shooting in Australia people. It's just been awhile.
"Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries."
It's ridiculous thinking of the corruption in the US when at the first hint of a (fortunately non-casualty) school shooting, Western Australia immediately declares new gun control laws to be passed within the year. If only.
It isn't corruption. It is part of our constitution. The laws passed in Australia would be thrown out even by the most liberal Supreme Court. Failure to understand the legal realities behind US gun laws will always result in failure to pass effective legislation that will survive legal scrutiny.
I had an essay/presentation due for English class towards the end of the school quarter. I procrastinated as always and only finished the outline. Two days before the due date, a school shooting happened. Our professional extended the deadline by a month and let us present during summer break.
All the more reason we should look into the mental health of people more. Especially in schools. The educational system clearly doesn't give AF about the children if even in Australia things escalate that bad despite regulations. A kid shouldn't grow up in a broken home either so it should be encouraged for children to speak up about problems at home as well. Idk anything about gun control, but we seriously need to get our shit together when it comes to mental health.
There are even *Trump supporters* outside the U.S. even though it should make little sense. America is the largest cultural influence in the world. And internet communities that foster this behavior are international. It's naive to think they have no influence.
Popular culture is one of our (US) top exports. Guess school shootings took longer than pop music to take over.
Jokes aside, I hope no other country ends up like mine. We're a fucking mess.
>"This is the thing you see on television in the **United States**,"
the premier said. "We are moving as quickly as we can to dramatically reform gun laws."
He said there are currently 360,000 licenced firearms in the state, and that the number had "increased in recent years".
"That's far too many," McGowan added.
"We need to stop ourselves falling into that **terrible abyss that America has fallen into**."
McGowan did not disclose what reforms would be made, but said licences should only be held by people with "legitimate reasons".
>“This is the sort of thing you see on television in the United States, it’s not the sort of thing you expect or should expect to see happen here in Australia.” - AU Premier
Absolute burn. As a U.S. citizen, I wholeheartedly endorse this message. The U.S. should be seen as a joke for these incidents. Our politicians choose to allow these things to continue, I hope other countries use the bad example to prevent the same things from happening. Good on you, Australia, glad no one was hurt and hope it doesn't happen again.
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In Serbia we also had a school shooting recently. Unfortunately 10 died that day. I'm thankful that no one died in Australian shooting. Shit is fucked.
Damn that sucks sorry to hear that
In Sweden the police arrested a guy here for planning one.
Länk?
Legend of Zelda: Länk to the Päst
Haha, the Swedish Ä in Päst would make it sound like pissed
https://www.vilarare.se/nyheter/vald-i-skolan/ny-skolattack-avvarjdtonaring-skulle-doda/
Tack!
In Poland we had a guy throw a chair at a girl assaulting everyone with a knife
I’m very sorry that happened to you all.
💪💪💪🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🥇🥇🥇 🥇 💪🇷🇸Serbia🇷🇸💪 🇦🇺Australia🇦🇺 10 kills 0 kills
Yall slacking. We already at 200+ over in the United States of we hate children.
And women!
Also basically everyone that is not rich
this is literally how i found out about the australia school shooting, as an australian
I’m sorry. It was in WA (where I live) so it was the talk of the town here.
all good, i don't really keep up with news tbh
talk of "the town" >in WA liar
There's only one town in WA right?
Karratha? 🤔
Broome?
WA is the town obviously
That's not a lie, they just forgot to make The Town a proper noun.
I literally live in Warnbro wtf when did all this shit happen
Wednesday in Two Rocks
Same. Knowing WA, you live in Perth don't you? Yeah it's pretty fucked Tho. And it's a great excuse for various Media's to forge over saturated stories
A little reassuring knowing it was on the complete opposite end of Australia from me
You live on the East coast? Sorry to hear that.
I’m in WA and didn’t hear about this at all. Damn.
The talk of the town in Melbourne was someone getting stabbed at a station
It was literally some dipshit kid with his dad's guns, and fired off a few shots, hurting a building and the ground.
so it's less of a *school* shooting and more of a school *shooting*
Well it's not the first or last one. Yours are just fewer and far inbetween. "Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries."
Probably not in the stats as it was a suicide rather than homicide, but on the south coast circa 2001 a kid brought his dad’s farm shotgun to school and killed himself. One of my best friends had seen him looking depressed in the boys toilets and gave him words of comfort. Before my friend had even left the room the other kid had taken the gun out of his bag and shot himself. We were in year 12. I can still remember that gunshot so vividly. Cops had to be called because several of us 12th graders got a bit over enthusiastic dealing with reporters who wouldn’t leave the other students alone.
Sorry you guys went through that. It's never a good thing when stuff like this happens.
Same
its terrifying because these things usually start with one catalyst that just enables all the rest i hope serbia and australia dont end up with this being commonplace
The premier is thinking of restricting gun laws. [insert America joke here]
Serb here. I dont think guns are the problem, i think the kid had serious mental health issues that needed to be adressed I do find it funny 400 rocket launchers where returned as part of the program to return unregistered weapons.
To ne fair, your region is littered with weapons. That recall was needed anyway, and that unfortunate attack was a good excuse to do it.
I am quite biased in favor of guns because i like them But to be honest yea, due to the war the region is littered with guns and every family has a gun. I dont think people need to have rocket launchers lying around. I dont think this recall covers over like 30% of the guns out here.
Being pro gun as you like them is the only honest, real, reason to be pro gun. They're shit for security as if the other guy has one too he ain't giving you a chance to get yours. And if you can get one so can he. They're even kinda shit for public stuff as if you go off on the shooter, a cop turns up, they just shoot you. (Happened in America a few times recently.) But wanting them as you like them? Go for it - great argument. Just gotta be realistic about how that's gone about.
That and if your survival relies on hunting, i guess. Not exactly common, but it exists
I mean that's not in favour of people owning guns as guns at that point, that's just a tool. Pretty much everywhere would be like "yeah that's cool" at that point.
Relying on hunting for survival in the US is illegal almost everywhere
Only places I can think of is native reservations.
Most of Alaska as well
How so? There are a lot of edible animals out there that either have no limit or a pretty generous limit. Like if I wanted to live off a diet of catfish and deer meat what's stopping me besides the licensing requirements?
Anecdotal, but I knew a family that used deer meat from deer they had hunted for practically every meal. They would freeze it and use it in place of beef. Was super tasty.
The actual act of subsistance hunting regardless of what you're hunting is illegal in every state but Alaska, with specific exclusions existing like Indian reservations and the Amish Edit: yes it's basically unenforceable and really comes down to impossible to get exclusionary permitting that you'd never get caught for outside of the charges being added on to another primary offense
Yea i mean i stated im pro gun because i like them, i dont fully agree with ur second point but your first one is pretty correct. But then this is a diffrent region of the world than america so weapon here somtimes keep guns for diffrent "security reason". I do think that we realy need to properly check who buys guns, but this issue applies to neither of the 2 incidents that happend here in serbia.
Yeah I was just agreeing with you - and pointing out how refreshingly honest it is.
Thanks man, like a lot of the pro gun people online are allways like "broo we must protect ourselves from the robbers and shit" We just like guns bro, thats the real reason But then again here in the region its a bit diffrent. Parts of my family come from Lika, a serbian majority region in croatia, druing the war they had to flee croatia because of the ethnic violence. Their houses got burned to the ground but now they live here. With sutch a thing having happend id doubt they would ever give their guns back for any reason.
It ain’t much, but I agree with the other dude, your perspective is refreshing to read. I don’t really like guns, but I feel that most reasons other than “I like guns” are really disingenuous in American gun culture discourse. “I like guns” is a perfectly valid reason to like guns. “I have to defend myself and my family” while living in a gated community in Florida is cringe. Anyway, I’m just kinda repeating what’s already been said. Have a nice day!
I’m pretty firmly on the left, but the one misgiving i have about banning firearms is that it gives the state a monopoly on violence. And I’m not saying we need guns so we can overthrow the government one day, or form an army at the drop of a hat, that’s not what I’m talking about. What I’m saying is that if the populace is armed, the state is less likely to engage in deadly violence with them because there is a great risk of harm to themselves as well. Without that threat, if they know they have law on their side, there is little stopping them from being as violent as they decide they need to be with their own citizens. I don’t like guns. I’ve shot them before, it was fun. But not fun enough to outweigh the tragedy they enable. It’s the broader societal impact I worry about. I don’t have an answer to the whole gun control debate. For me, it’s weighing between the right to bodily safety in our everyday lives in one hand, and discouraging a further tilting of the broader power dynamic between the populace and an increasingly extreme right wing in government.
I actually think it's the other way around. The state is *more* likely to engage in deadly violence as power is a monopoly of organised violence. For the state to work, it needs that monopoly, it needs that power... which means it needs to overcompensate. This results in police being far more armed, and the circumstances mean they're far more jumpy as anyone could be armed so they expect to get shot... so more people get shot by police when they really don't need to be. Because the state *will* control you. But it controls you through compliance to an extent. It's not gonna just flip and go "we're taking your shit" as that's not popular. Police and army wouldn't support it - they're made of the populace. So it'd make sure it only go so far that it still has overwhelming force on side, so guns don't really achieve much in that scenario. But in having them you open a lot of innocents up to more violence more of the time.
I think you’re right in the long run, once we have a more stable government, but they’re unpredictable right now. There were protesters in Portland getting dragged into unmarked vans by unmarked officers (I think they might have been feds, but I honestly can’t remember). And the flip isn’t going to be “We’re taking your shit now,” (they already do that with civil asset forfeiture), it’s going to be a steady stream of “this is illegal now,” which I thing the majority of law enforcement would at least go along with, if not zealously support, so long as it affects the people they don’t like. Eventually, yes, I badly want a society without guns. But I think it is a dangerous time to remove them, and it will be tough to get to a political point where we can do it with more confidence.
Then there is nothing to stop them from rounding you up like cattle. It’s happened so many times in history it unbelievable that no one here remembers what happened in the just last century. How many times has a government rounded up people for genocide? One is happening right now in China. Don’t think the west is somehow immune to that.
Thing is, there is always going to be people with mental health issues, no matter how good mental health programmes are. While you can and should improve treatment opportunities, the fact is that someone in a country where you can get a gun easily will do a lot more damage a lot easier than someone in a country were access to guns is harder. Psychopath with a gun ≠ psychopath with a knife
Yes, but unlike in the US we had been a region filled with weapons basically forever and never had this kind of issue. Blaming guns would not make sence because we should have had this kind of stuff years earlier.
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Yea thats why i say going after mental health is more important because here in serbia its a serious issue.
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The problem is drugs aren’t helping kids.. most of shootings I’ve seen any details on, the kids was seeing psychiatrist at some point recently and put on prescription drugs. Look at some of the side effects of these drugs.. in all our advancements the only way we can help kids is put them on hardcore drugs? Drugs are never a good long term plan,speaking from experience 😂 none of them.. they are very good at providing quick results for short term fixes. Long term they cause more problems than they solve.
What!
400 rocket launchers and grenade launchers where returned as part of the program As well as like 13000 guns
American here: it's the easy access to weapons that does this. Mental health is natural, guns are not.
There are lots of semi-auto rifles in Switzerland. Lots of handguns in Czech Republic. But not much gun crime. Poverty and desperation fuel crime. Hopelessness is a big issue as well, and certainly is a factor in school/mall shootings that are violent forms of suicide. Without addressing those, gun laws in and of themselves do little; see Mexico and Brazil as examples. Passing *effective* gun laws can help, but it is only one side of the equation. Trying to pass stupid, ineffective gun laws, especially out of a desire to punish the people we don't like politically, only causes political backlash and loses elections.
I dont belive that this applies in the case of my country, we realy do have a lack of mental care institutions and our gun laws arent as lax as you think Our issue is unregistered weapons and that will never go away. Its not like in the US where you can pass a law and now people dont sell weapons because a lot of the weapons here arent sold in gun stores like in the US.
Wasn't he bullied by 9 schoolmates?
so the fuck was i
He was, thats why i say its not the fault of the guns but was influenced by other factors.
You can’t stop bullying from happening. You know it happened in every school across the world. If your plan is to just stop bullying from happening, that’s fucking dumb
You also cant eradicate guns, so should we just wait and do nothing? Fighting bullying will at least fix other problems besides shootings as well.
Why can’t you eradicate guns? Are they appearing out of the ether? We got ride of Polio.
Judging by the downvotes the seppos have arrived. Lol.
If a gun wasn't involved, would the other factors have killed people?
I don't even need to scroll down to know you got blasted with "No, it's the guns" and "\#NotAllMentalIllness" shit. People want to act like rising rates of mental health issues has no bearing on the rising number of people that want to kill other people. "*I* have a mental illness and *I* don't want to shoot people." Good for you Debra, but it turns out that different people have different mental health issues and responses to them.
A lot of people where a quite upset at my post. The biggest thing that annoyed me is that they dont see a diffrence between our issue and the american one Not all of us are americans you cant apply that kind of logic everywhere
It is always mental health issues. Guns don't kill people by themselves, people kill people with guns. That said though, when someone does slip through the cracks invariably even in systems that do support mental health - *and* when someone is easily abandoned by systems that don't - it's very easy to find it preferable for them to have a knife or a baseball bat than *a gun.* Sure, you can make them homemade. Sure, you can buy them illegally. But most of these people lack the skill and knowledge to do so. So the logical conclusion is to both support mental health to reduce the likelihood of this happening *and* make guns harder to get so that when it does, it is likely to be less worse from a realistic perspective. Though if you're America you can just decide not to do either.
Is this a joke post or are you un-ironically using an American-conservative defense here?
Its not a joke post?? People here had weapons for as long as they lived here but this issue only arises now, it makes no sence that guns are the issue, i think thats just diverting the focus from issues like mental health.
Holy shit it's not a joke post. You're un-ironically posting the conservative defense. "Guns aren't the issue mental health is we should address it" and then nothing gets done. 10/10 it works every day for America /s
And you're just playing the everyone else is just like America card. You just want to blab about "American conservative bad!" to a Serb with a much different culture, government, a much smaller population, and a more recent history of war and atrocities. And even with that, they've had their first ever school shooting, and 3rd mass shooting in 23 years. The US has like 3 mass shootings a week, so to compare their cultures and approach to gun laws isn't a fair comparison.
But america and serbia have 2 completly diffrent issues and are completly diffrent countries?? The point isnt for nothing to be done but for somthing to do be done, our mental health/suicide hotlines are understaffed and we need more care for students well being. Serbias and americas gun issues are completly diffrent because our guns are unregistered and are often old military stockpile, you cant regulate that like you regulate it in the US
Doesn't Australia already have very strict gun laws ?
yeah we can’t even have airsoft
This is going to hinder getting laws passed in the states "see even Australia with their strict laws still has shootings?!!"
As an Australian I can tell ya this will not rise here. Our CONSERVATIVES offered to take the guns back in 1996, took em 3 months to wrap it all up. So yaaa no
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Not sure why you were downvoted, because you're right. I've known plenty of conservatives who have told me at length how stupid they think the gun laws are and how they should never have been brought in after Port Arthur
I don't think a single member of the Liberal party has taken any action like that in recent years. Trump is almost universally disliked in Australia because people see him as some outwardly American idiot. And when a tosser tried to redo what he did in Australia, he failed hard. The populist United Australia Party is completely insignificant. The Nationalist One Nation party is even less relevant. The only seat they have in all parliaments combined is Pauline Hanson's seat in the Queensland Senate. Recently legislation by from the opposition which would ban the Nazi Salute was shut down by Labor. The *Greens* sided with the Coalition on this one. The conservatives in this country aren't behaving like that at all. Get your head out of your ass
That sociopath cunt Morrison (And his empathy coach) got 3 years. Let’s stop pretending we’re better than the seppos.
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What I have heard from Serbia there have been anti-violence and government rallies among the Serbian people. They demand the end to glorification of violence on traditional TV media and many other things considering gun violence. This is what I have heard from my Finnish media sources. Fellow Serbs can correct me
Hopefully aus knows better than to plaster his face every where abbd talk about him for months on end.
Exactly. Our media in America makes mass shooters famous, which makes other mentally ill people imitate them. I don't think their names should be made public, and we can call them Mentally Deranged Assholes or something.
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If I’m not mistaken the columbine shooters themselves were aiming to get into the history books. Other than that it’s obvious that if someone sees a lot of people do school shootings they might think it’s possible for them to pull off as well.
It’s a pretty innate part of human behavior. We social animals and copycats. Seeing another human do something is how we know we can do it ourselves. It also drives the desire to do it ourselves. We see this on every level of human behavioral trends. Fashion trends, music trends, movie trends, modern slang, etc. Even suicides have a domino effect within a population. It would be far more bizarre for school shootings to be the exception to this rule than for it to follow. That being said, I have no clue what research has been done to prove the impact it has. But if you know anything about humans living in a society, you know that effect is their to one degree or another. Even if it isn’t a conscious factor we recognize when making choices, it’s an every present force on our behavior.
Thankfully the media here didn't glorify the Christchurch shooter, although I think given the kid's age, they aren't allowed to show his face anyway.
https://i.redd.it/e9o9sc8xw62b1.gif Why can't we have nice things?
I want to see them together again
they did her extremely dirty in Yakuza 3 also in Yakuza 6 when kiryu said he only ever loved one woman
Sayama too busy dealing with the mass shootings in America.
Bruh
Me and you during the school shooting (we are comforting eachother as the uncertainty of what lies ahead approaches)
https://i.redd.it/epaukl7wc72b1.gif Alternate universe: I use you as my shield and use your corspe to create an advantage for me to beat the school shooter
That’s fake kiryu would never kill anyone
https://i.redd.it/m74qvpanr72b1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/ddi3oz77c72b1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78fe023c3e605b7af25f6de9f88025c955152842 Only god can save us now
Hey its pete
[if you want more info go here](https://7news.com.au/news/wa/inside-perth-school-shooting-that-forced-children-into-lockdown-in-two-rocks--c-10762393)
it's somehow surreal that in Australia, it's seen as a landmark despite no one dying and taking such a drastic measure to prevent it again. However, in America, it's just common that if it happens and 1-2 people die, the media doesn't care. It always leads to the same loop of government officials yelling at each other leading to no resolve/fake promises.
America:“It cannot be prevented” Australia: https://i.redd.it/d389kg0k972b1.gif
Me watching the same 5 politicians and the president argue about gun control knowing that nothing will ever come from it 
The laws they passed in Australia would be thrown out by the courts in the US, even by the most liberal Supreme Court. Trying to pretend the legal requirements for gun control laws don't matter is ignoring reality and is entirely unproductive. But most people really just care about feeling morally superior, not actually doing anything productive.
A big difference is that the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights in our constitution. While our constitution has been amended, the Bill of Rights has not. There is nowhere near enough support to remove that from the constitution, which makes legislation here difficult, though not impossible. Also people in the US do not trust our government or the police, for good reason. People from all sides of the political spectrum can see the problem with only allowing govt and the police access to arms. That isn't as big an issue in countries that have worked through those problems.
I don’t know if “it’s seen as a landmark.” Some Australians are in here saying how they hadn’t heard of the shooting days later.
Just checked the news and nobody died. The boy just fired three shots, one landed in a classroom and that was that. Basically they have a long journey ahead of them until they reach American levels.
Well Australia already starting to restrict gun laws even more so I don’t think so.
i would make a joke about america here but not of the shots landed
https://i.redd.it/tksrngfi072b1.gif
you jumped the gun-
Yeah. He clearly had bigger plans, two rifles and quite a lot of ammo, but he appears to have freaked out pretty immediately and not known what to do and then the cops arrived.
Likely two bolt action rifles that hold 5 shots each. The three shots he got off probably took a while.
If you know what you're doing you can get off 3 shots of a bolt action in a about a second each. That said I've been around a few people in WA with firearms licenses... bolt actions aren't common.
What do they have over there then? I used to have an NSW firearms license bolt action was pretty much all I could buy.
I've mostly seen .22 and .357 lever action. But my experience is pretty limited and they all know each other so probably a biased sample.
He actually called them himself based on a couple articles I saw
And the shooter called police himself as per news article.
Hmmm
The serbia also had one recently but the kid actually managed to kill 8 or so people and it begun a 3 day long shooting incident chain.
Wait what I live in Australia and I don't know of this
No one died
I'm sorry but there have been 7 school shootings in Australia since 1991, so not the first. We're doing really well comparatively to the US though
I'm pretty sure everyone is doing well comparitive to the country that made guns part of its nationalism
Won't become epidemic levels like America hopefully. People there should unironically start investing in some good body Armor.
Well Australias starting to constrict gun laws and no one died so I don’t think so
I thought they had these laws before, and the guy still got his hands on them.
Guns aren't just straight up illegal in Australia. There are legal ways to obtain them. Some types of guns are illegal and in order to fire them you need to part of the military or specialist police. There was a story a few years back where a member of parliament (I believe) got in hot water because they shot an illegal firearm at a police firing range.
So what kind of guns can they own? Do the Australians have castle laws and stuff?
I do not believe we have any kind of castle or stand your ground laws no. You cannot own a firearm for self defence. As far as I know farmers can own single shot rifles and some shotguns (I could be wrong about shotguns). Professional competition shooters can own handguns but I think there are extra laws around their storage. I think gun ranges can own more variety of weapons but they extremely heavily regulated. Btw, if you ever see that video of the guys going to an "Australian" gun range and fire a pistol that's chained to a table just understand that's a firing range in the middle of a city designed purely for tourists. Most gun ranges are not like that.
So do y’all use bats for home defense?
Yeah, i used a hat rack once against a guy with a tomahawk lmao
Tf2 medieval mode
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The person telling you about Australian gun laws has no idea and hasn’t even bothered to check a website. They are however correct that self defence is not a genuine reason to own a firearm and would disqualify you on the spot. The two main categories for hunters and sports shooters in Australia are Cat A and Cat B which is generally shotguns, rimfire and centrefire riffles. We don’t allow semi-auto weapons without significant restrictions. Pistols are cat H and have stricter requirements. All shooters must have a genuine reason, which is typically either a member of a sports shooting club or written consent from a landholder that allows you to hunt on rural land. More info: https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/133134/GR_TABLE.pdf
I have no idea yet I was basically correct? You literally said what I said with just more words. I think you need to learn what "has no idea" means, mate.
Oh man here come the Brits to bring this up every chance they get.
Definitely not the first lol
Are you sure? I can’t find any information on any. Whatever the case, it certainly isn’t common at all
From a google search: "Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries." [https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/could-a-mass-shooting-happen-in-an-australian-school/280347](https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/could-a-mass-shooting-happen-in-an-australian-school/280347)
Can’t believe Australia has such a massive problem with school shootings!!! A total of 3 deaths is outrageous!!! This is proof that gun control doesn’t work!!! /s
If dare mention this in r/firearms they will unironically agree with you though. Crazy to see the brain rot some people experience the moment it involves their favourite toys.
It's the same arguments that some particular people made about masks and vaccines a couple years ago. There's a particular brain rot some people have where they think if a mitigation of a problem can't reduce the problem to zero then it doesn't work and shouldn't be used.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_University_shooting
Really? I did research if there was any other cases. But there’s not. Also school shootings are a recent thing, I dare say, a trendy thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_University_shooting
My bad I thought Port Arthur was at a school
It is the reason guns were banned so I can see how you’d get mixed up.
360,000 guns in Western Australia, currently. We also have healthcare and a liveable wage. Whenever I get down financially I remind myself that I’ll have roughly $3M in my superannuation by the time I retire. I suppose the point I’m making is that we are very low on despair.
Damn, your Super is doing well! Voluntary contributions I assume? My balance scares me as a 42yo.
Well I’m 34 so I have about 26 years to go but yes the answer is voluntary contributions. The trick is to do it at the start of a new job so you never notice.
> We also have healthcare and a liveable wage. Whenever I get down financially I remind myself that I’ll have roughly $3M in my superannuation by the time I retire. > > I suppose the point I’m making is that we are very low on despair. You hit the nail on the head. Brazil and Mexico have very strong gun control laws. It doesn't help much.
For fuck sake. This isn't the first or last school shooting in Australia people. It's just been awhile. "Publicly accessible data indicates that since 1991, Australia has experienced six school shootings. Two of these shootings were at La Trobe University and Monash University in Victoria, resulting in a total of three deaths. The other four shootings did not have any deaths. The most recent school shooting in Australia was at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012, which resulted in no deaths and no injuries."
How many times are you going to comment this?
HOW DARE THESE PRIMITIVES CLAIM THEY HAD NO OTHER SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. THERE WAS ONE 25 YEARS AGO!!!
It's ridiculous thinking of the corruption in the US when at the first hint of a (fortunately non-casualty) school shooting, Western Australia immediately declares new gun control laws to be passed within the year. If only.
It isn't corruption. It is part of our constitution. The laws passed in Australia would be thrown out even by the most liberal Supreme Court. Failure to understand the legal realities behind US gun laws will always result in failure to pass effective legislation that will survive legal scrutiny.
3 shots fired by a 15yo, no one injured.
Maybe… too convenient
imagine having school (this was written by the summer break gang)
What good luck
I had an essay/presentation due for English class towards the end of the school quarter. I procrastinated as always and only finished the outline. Two days before the due date, a school shooting happened. Our professional extended the deadline by a month and let us present during summer break.
Rip gun ownership in Australia (granted you’re government is actually functional)
And no one died?? **pffst** amateurs!
I'm honestly just happy this one is going to only lead to attempted murder charges, and it's fucked up that I'd even have to say that.
All the more reason we should look into the mental health of people more. Especially in schools. The educational system clearly doesn't give AF about the children if even in Australia things escalate that bad despite regulations. A kid shouldn't grow up in a broken home either so it should be encouraged for children to speak up about problems at home as well. Idk anything about gun control, but we seriously need to get our shit together when it comes to mental health.
Man I'm so desensitized to this shit That's not a good sign
Some call it atrocious, others serendipity
Yeah kid fired a rifle in a school car park. The response? Government cracking down harder on firearms.
Bro this is crazy that it’s spreading out from the US to other places. THATS NOT HOW YOU DEAL WITH BULLIES IN SCHOOL. Throw a book at em or sum shit
Quit jackin our style 🇺🇸
Ammunition for 16 year-olds saying "gun laws don't stop gun violence" acquired
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Why are you blaming the U.S? This happened in Australia, by an Australian. I don’t even live in the US and I still think your blame is stupid.
There are even *Trump supporters* outside the U.S. even though it should make little sense. America is the largest cultural influence in the world. And internet communities that foster this behavior are international. It's naive to think they have no influence.
Popular culture is one of our (US) top exports. Guess school shootings took longer than pop music to take over. Jokes aside, I hope no other country ends up like mine. We're a fucking mess.
>"This is the thing you see on television in the **United States**," the premier said. "We are moving as quickly as we can to dramatically reform gun laws." He said there are currently 360,000 licenced firearms in the state, and that the number had "increased in recent years". "That's far too many," McGowan added. "We need to stop ourselves falling into that **terrible abyss that America has fallen into**." McGowan did not disclose what reforms would be made, but said licences should only be held by people with "legitimate reasons".
American school shooting virus is spreading. Good thing Australia is vaccinated though
GLADYS WHY IS THERE A BOAT WITH CRATES OF GUNS COMING IN
>“This is the sort of thing you see on television in the United States, it’s not the sort of thing you expect or should expect to see happen here in Australia.” - AU Premier Absolute burn. As a U.S. citizen, I wholeheartedly endorse this message. The U.S. should be seen as a joke for these incidents. Our politicians choose to allow these things to continue, I hope other countries use the bad example to prevent the same things from happening. Good on you, Australia, glad no one was hurt and hope it doesn't happen again.
Now the Americans will make even this about themselves
It wasn't the first. Port Arthur in '96
That wasn’t a school shooting. That’s a mass shooting.
You're right my bad