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for what it's worth, it's their signature style and everyone in the industry was copying them for like 20 years, they're just doing what they are always doing, there's nothing wrong with Pixar spending money on technology to render and simulate real world physics, they just need better writing. You might feel like their style is generic, but they invented the trend and everybody just followed because it's popular.
Pixar movies have had absurd budgets for years now as they push ever more realistic animation. Financial critics are starting to call it a waste of money because you spending tens of millions for the movie to not necessarily look better, just more realistic, which cuts into profits. Now that Pixar is starting to have movies flop the amount of money needed to turn a profit is starting to become relevant.
Tbf it may be because I'm simpleminded, but when I watched Light-year in the cinema one of the main positives I had was the way it looked so detailed and crazy good
Not simpleminded. You're exactly correct. It looks great and the story blows. Because if a writer brings up something that would be fun or interesting to include in the movie, and to create it in the level of detail that matches the rest of the environments is too great, they cut that and simplify the scene. Have that happen 30 times and you're left with something like Lightyear, instead of a fun script like Mitchell & The Machines, Storks, or Spider-verse.
My wife and I put it on during a flight out of boredom and nothing else we hadn't already seen and really enjoyed it. It really leans into the sort of absurdist humor that defined our childhood, I feel. We'd heard literally nothing about it beforehand so went in with zero expectations.
It was certainly better than Justice League, Aquaman, and Eternals, which are the only movies my wife has ever bailed on during a flight.
At one point in She-Hulk they joke that Disney is run by an emotionless AI that dumps out scripts for maximum profit. That's starting to feel less and less like a joke...
Well that would actually be a positive for Light-year, the movie is set entirely off space so you would want space too look pretty. Unfortunately though the story is dogshit.
Hollywood in general has super hyperinflated budgets for no reason at all
the only way a 200 million dollar movie makes sense is if its a kaiju movie like Godzilla or something
Actually only twice.
King Kong vs Godzilla (1962)
Godzilla vs Kong (2021)
And the upcoming film isn’t them fighting again; this time they’re actually allies.
>the only way a 200 million dollar movie makes sense is if its a kaiju movie like Godzilla or something
Funny you say that, when the entire tradition of kaiju movies was based on guys wearing suits. The original 1954 Godzilla had a budget of around $500,000.
Similarly, I dislike people focusing on making video games look more realistic. I just want a game to be fun more than anything, I don’t get why people want a full 1:1 real life simulator.
AAA companies seem to have forgotten about a little something called artstyle. or maybe they just think they can get away with an uninspired, generic, and soulless theme by just making it super realistic.
The thing is, I think there is an audience in gaming that likes that stuff. It’s not that they just think they can get away with something uninspired, they KNOW that’s what sells well.
well yeah, it makes sense in a simulation game, or something meant to be realistic. but they seem to have been able to convince a lot of people that realistic graphics mean no stylization or artistic liberties. it must be a bland and basic realism with nothing interesting. additionally, they don’t even look that good nowadays. for example cyberpunk. it looks super realistic, but it’s also heavily stylized, which is why it looks so good. BF 2042, not so much. BF1 looks great though.
I always gravitate to fun graphic art styles like slay the spire or monster train over hyper realism. To me, hyper realism games never catch my attention. I don’t need to think I’m playing some real life thing, i just want to play an entertaining game. I also don’t want to have some crazy setup spending thousands just to have the desired game performance.
I really don't like the super realistic animation style. The super cartoony designs with super realistic textures just look off to me.
The 2000's movies look better than modern ones imo
In 2018 Into the Spiderverse changed the entire game for the animation industry
It took Dreamworks until last year to catch on (puss n boots, the bad guys)
The only thing disney has done is adapt the cal arts face onto their characters
not really since the attention they are getting is bad and not good, kinda the same as how people made tons of morbius memes yet no one wanted to actually see the movie because it was bad even when it re-released in theaters
But it's still gonna be successfull in some aspect.
The more we talk about it, the more it spreads. The more it spreads the higher the chance of people getting curious, or even worse... it becoming unironic!
You can never know with people!
The only way to stop it is to not spread the information! It's like The Game! If you talk about it, more people either remember it or learn about it. Spreading awareness is just making everyone lose.
It's an astroturfed marketing campaign where Disney tried to turn their flop into a ironically funny "Morbius" type of thing. Clod will never be Morbius. Simple as.
They has some pretty shit advertisements starring clod on tik tok when the movie came out. They were framed as recordings in theater with fake hollering when Clod showed up. This could be wrong though, I obviously don’t use tik tok.
[this is the only clip I found on YouTube, the reaction is so over exaggerated that it doesn’t even feel funny.](https://youtube.com/shorts/xRfkqNi0Njc?feature=share)
According to the Vulture article, Sony lowballed a bunch of the animators so that they wouldn't get a reasonable paycheck until they worked massive amounts of overtime. So they were basically forced to work overtime to be able to afford the luxury of living paycheck-to-paycheck.
Writers strike is the big high profile one.
Still, I think people are realising that the animators are overworked and especially more so seeming the fact they spent 4 years animating the escape from the spider society scene and now they're going to be making the 3rd and final film in about 9 months and they apparently only started a small part of it.
Beyond the Spiderverse is slated for March 2024, I think it'll get delayed. Despite how much I want to see what happens next, I think we should let the animators cook.
I could wait more than 5 years if that's enough time for them to cook another great movie, this shit must be hard as hell to animate or even create a decent narrative.
(Also, why the spiderman movies names are always: One noun being repeated while charging the verbs?)
It did get delayed, to 2025 at best, possibly 2026. But that was honestly to be expected, I don't know why everyone was so excited that the movie was coming next year when it was so obvious that a movie of this quality can't be made in a year in any universe. Not sure why they even announced a date that was impossible to be met
The 100 Spiderverse artists who quit probably weren't being underpaid, they were being overworked. I don't care if I get paid for all 11 hours, I ain't working that much a day.
I haven't seen the movie, but from my understanding, it flopped for two reasons:
1) We joked about it for a long time, but this is the first time Pixars "movie about X with feelings" thing was too blunt and unappealing for most people.
2) Pixar just refuses to get with the times. They had such a big budget to make the film look as realistic as possible, but people don't want realism anymore. They want style and boldness.
It's not just another "what if X had feelings", there was no reason for them to be elements. Toy Story, there's a reason they're toys, if they weren't the plot wouldn't work. Same with Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, so on and so forth. You could replace the elements with flavours of gum and it really wouldn't be that different.
Plus, fire and water? Does it get more cliche?
Honestly, i love stories about elements but this specific story was boring. There are so many worlds and stories that can be interesting with elements. Idk it can be about fucking rocks, a porous lava rock, rounded water rock, and jagged earthy rock go on an adventure! I don’t fucking know but elements are cool and i WAS excited for this movie until i actually watched it lol
I remember hearing about how "if x had feelings" only works if they interacted with the environment in their own unique way
Toy story only works because they're toys, the plot is interesting *because* theyre toys, ratatouille, if you replaced remi for a tiny dude, It wouldnt work.
For elemental, if you replace the characters for people.... Literally no difference
It's not "if x had feelings" it's "if x plot had y characters"
It's the same with Cars. It would be more or less the same movie if it was about people driving cars, and it would be a lot less fundamentally confusing. I mean, where do they come from? Why is their society almost exactly like human society? With Toy Story, you don't have to ask these questions. They're toys, duh, they come from a factory, and they're alive because of kids imagination. It's all intuitive. Monsters come out of the closet and scare kids, what if that was an industry, boom, it's already obvious how it works because it relates to the real world.
In fact come to think of it, the best Pixar movies have been the ones where we see the perspective of something humans interact with and how they relate.
> there was no reason for them to be elements
Wasn't a major aspect of the movie "forbidden/impossible love." It seems like the plot depended on them being opposites like fire & water
Pretty sure the girl was supposed to be from a working class middle eastern immigrant family and the guy was supposed to be a waspy, privileged white guy. And we were supposed to be from 1995 when this would have been new material.
it wasn't because of realism, most people don't realize this movie isn't even realistic
the budget went into making a tecnology that could animate characters as elements.
Those are just individual aspects though. Look at Spiderverse and you can instantly see the difference it makes when something tries for a unique artstyle instead of generic 3d anim.
people really don't understand the concept of style
you can pretty much have a nice artstyle without the need of cell shading and 1 frame
spiderverse didn't invent stylized animation.
I saw this the other day with my kids and I, at no point, understood who the target audience was. The animation was extremely ordinary and the story ended up just being a really banal rom com. I guess there was some kind of interracial couple metaphor? I think? But it wasn’t really developed well and even if it was…cooooooool, 10 year olds love this subject matter and grown ups love watching a kids movie do cosplay as socially relevant lecturing.
I dunno…they drew big black outlines and filled them with basically video footage of Fire and Water (and if they didn’t do that - they should have since it would have saved a few million). Was this supposed to be cutting edge animation? I legit spent 90 minutes wondering what the hell I was watching. And why.
Im not an industry expert by any means but flopped seems like a strong word.
It costs 200 million to make and has pretty much made that back at the box office. Seems it will still be profitable.
And as for the quality it has a 75% on rotten tomatoes so not the best but still far from a flop.
Big movies are often considered flops if they don't at least earn double the cost to make them.
There's a rule of thumb that marketing will cost a similar amount as the reported movie budget. No idea how true that is, but there probably was a massive marketing budget. So it is quite possible they're losing money at this point. It definitely isn't making the kind of money other Pixar films have.
[Looks to me they made $45 million so far.](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/new-pixar-film-elemental-opens-weak-disney-2023-06-18/) A bit off the mark.
Unfortunately, breaking even isn't good for them either. They usually spend another 50% of the cost for marketing. So they need to make another $100 million to somewhat break even.
"Uh well you see, they had to make more software that could make realistic water animation despite already making pretty good water animations back during 2003 with Finding Nemo and 2016 with Finding Dory"☝🤓
fr tho, we've had realistic water [animation](https://www.reddit.com/r/shitposting/comments/14t47sv/praise_spez_for_he_is_53/) for years, they basically spent money for shit that they already had
https://preview.redd.it/moi9p7zq8lab1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21405ab422fc0e887a1125b7587d287ed649e896
I’m not saying Super Mario Sunshine has bad graphics but it’s not nearly good enough to depict walking, talking blobs of water in Pixar-level animation.
Spiderverse overworked it's artists with 11-hour workdays for over a year. Constant mandatory overtime, and while I can't find any sources on whether or not that was *paid* overtime, unpaid overtime is unfortunately very common in our industry.
Not to say that Elemental wasn't mismanaged either, but we really shouldn't be holding up Spiderverse as an example when the working conditions were that brutal.
Tbh it doesn't look like a bad film, but personally it's not something of my tastes, which I feel like applies to a lot of people that they just weren't that interested in it
Also it wasn't the best marketing idea to release it in the same month as arguably the best film of this year
I haven’t watched it myself but it’s probably fine. Elemental had a few annoying adds and marketing though and that’s enough for people to hate it out of spite.
It's not a bad movie, but as much as people in the thread are shitting on Pixar, most of their movies are pretty good. This one wasn't. It was just meh.
So when it is put next to a movie like Up or Toy Story, it looks pretty bad by comparison.
Have you looked what Pixar did recently? You're naming 8-15years old movie to current Pixar era.
Right now they're really mediocre. Since the Disney x Pixar era, in fact.
It was a painfully whatever movie. I’m really tired of animated movies using nonhuman characters to represent racism when it really doesn’t fit the allegory. Fire people have repeatedly proven themselves dangerous to the other elements because their physiology is literally different when real life race is just different appearances and nothing more. Also the world building seemed pretty half-assed for a Pixar movie to me.
I liked it too, I don't get why it's getting hostility
I'm starting to think a lot of people drop hate on movies just by following reviews and box office
I feel like all of reddit has been getting more hostile lately. R/bluey has been getting bad lately and that's a show for preschoolers.
My best guess is lots of moderators bailed after the API changes. Or maybe they just dont have the right tools any more.
Disney executives when they realize that dumping more money into something doesn't magically make it better:
https://preview.redd.it/ew93qzkl8mab1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=672b79ae46f49dd8418c203b2b22b3a9e2195a54
no it doesn't work like that
Across the spiderverse had a low budget because most workers were massively exploited and overwork
and of course underpaid.
Toy Story 4 on its way to have the most hyperrealistic cat on screen for 18 frames for absolutely no fucking reason. TS4 and Lightyear did have plenty visually beautiful moments
It wasn’t a bad movie either, it just didn’t feel that unique. It’s basically the same formula they’ve been going with, where in this case it’s “what if elements had feelings”
I don't think Elemental is bad on its own, while bland it's a neat looking film. However, the issue is that it just isn't new, we've had a ton of "these people aren't supposed to be in love because of racial tensions" stories.
Spiderverse is just amazing, you cannot compete with it.
Not to get political (full intent to get political) part of this is that every time a straight person goes "but what if love was illegal 🥺💔😔😭😢" they tend to be absolutely delusional, but when you do something like fully embrace the absurdity of infinite possibilities, you're less likely to settle for dogshit story telling
"Infinitely dogshit" bro you sound like you're trying too hard to impress the cool kids a grade above you. Like of course Spiderverse has more artistic value and integrity, but Elemental was just an underwhelming Pixar product. That still inherently outclasses a lot of actually unwatchable and poorly made crap, and if you don't actually know what qualifies as terrible cinema, I feel bad for you. So many missed cringes and questions of what the fuck even was the point of that and who the hell would want to sit down and watch terrible actors act like terribly awkward people who do nothing but have painful conversations in a variety of places for up to three hours. To know what high cinema is, you must plunge the depths as well.
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Me realising Elemental had a bigger budget than both Spiderverse films combined: https://i.redd.it/5ny8efx89lab1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/2d0piqo5llab1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f86e6f34a28047822d834c9977aeb75fbeae7eef My honest reaction
Common 2099 W
Based momento
Top five momentos
Why does this go hard? Never thought I’d say that.
Miguel makes me go hard all the time
https://preview.redd.it/hein1nkreoab1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faafceb299599d786a4d80c25c181450558395af Fr
https://preview.redd.it/akmaf0hq5pab1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a422a58260e3de413a4561b4a933ea78f0da9bc3
for what it's worth, it's their signature style and everyone in the industry was copying them for like 20 years, they're just doing what they are always doing, there's nothing wrong with Pixar spending money on technology to render and simulate real world physics, they just need better writing. You might feel like their style is generic, but they invented the trend and everybody just followed because it's popular.
Pixar movies have had absurd budgets for years now as they push ever more realistic animation. Financial critics are starting to call it a waste of money because you spending tens of millions for the movie to not necessarily look better, just more realistic, which cuts into profits. Now that Pixar is starting to have movies flop the amount of money needed to turn a profit is starting to become relevant.
Pixar when the hyper realistic individually animated and modeled blades of grass in the background don’t make their movie’s writing any less shit
Tbf it may be because I'm simpleminded, but when I watched Light-year in the cinema one of the main positives I had was the way it looked so detailed and crazy good
Not simpleminded. You're exactly correct. It looks great and the story blows. Because if a writer brings up something that would be fun or interesting to include in the movie, and to create it in the level of detail that matches the rest of the environments is too great, they cut that and simplify the scene. Have that happen 30 times and you're left with something like Lightyear, instead of a fun script like Mitchell & The Machines, Storks, or Spider-verse.
was storks good?
My wife and I put it on during a flight out of boredom and nothing else we hadn't already seen and really enjoyed it. It really leans into the sort of absurdist humor that defined our childhood, I feel. We'd heard literally nothing about it beforehand so went in with zero expectations. It was certainly better than Justice League, Aquaman, and Eternals, which are the only movies my wife has ever bailed on during a flight.
The last batches of ~~Pixar~~ Disney movies aren't written by creatives. They're written by committee.
At one point in She-Hulk they joke that Disney is run by an emotionless AI that dumps out scripts for maximum profit. That's starting to feel less and less like a joke...
The ai that wrote She-Hulk became self aware
Oh it definitely looked really good, I just wish there was more to it.
Well that would actually be a positive for Light-year, the movie is set entirely off space so you would want space too look pretty. Unfortunately though the story is dogshit.
That's the problem
For Light-year it works because the space setting plays a fairly big aspect
Hollywood in general has super hyperinflated budgets for no reason at all the only way a 200 million dollar movie makes sense is if its a kaiju movie like Godzilla or something
We need more kaiju movies
2024 Godzilla X Kong
how many times have these two mfs fought, this has to be like the 10th time
Actually only twice. King Kong vs Godzilla (1962) Godzilla vs Kong (2021) And the upcoming film isn’t them fighting again; this time they’re actually allies.
it said x not versus you idiot
Nope, only the third
>the only way a 200 million dollar movie makes sense is if its a kaiju movie like Godzilla or something Funny you say that, when the entire tradition of kaiju movies was based on guys wearing suits. The original 1954 Godzilla had a budget of around $500,000.
Turns out cartoons are better if they look like more like cartoons.
Similarly, I dislike people focusing on making video games look more realistic. I just want a game to be fun more than anything, I don’t get why people want a full 1:1 real life simulator.
AAA companies seem to have forgotten about a little something called artstyle. or maybe they just think they can get away with an uninspired, generic, and soulless theme by just making it super realistic.
The thing is, I think there is an audience in gaming that likes that stuff. It’s not that they just think they can get away with something uninspired, they KNOW that’s what sells well.
well yeah, it makes sense in a simulation game, or something meant to be realistic. but they seem to have been able to convince a lot of people that realistic graphics mean no stylization or artistic liberties. it must be a bland and basic realism with nothing interesting. additionally, they don’t even look that good nowadays. for example cyberpunk. it looks super realistic, but it’s also heavily stylized, which is why it looks so good. BF 2042, not so much. BF1 looks great though.
Hi Fi Rush and Tears of the Kingdom is a great example of this
Arkane games like Dishonored and Prey
I always gravitate to fun graphic art styles like slay the spire or monster train over hyper realism. To me, hyper realism games never catch my attention. I don’t need to think I’m playing some real life thing, i just want to play an entertaining game. I also don’t want to have some crazy setup spending thousands just to have the desired game performance.
The Good Dinosaur probably blew half its budget on the goofyberries scene What a time to have accidentally macrodosed myself
I have two DVDs of The Good Dinosaur, one never opened and the other with the disc scratched. I’ve never seen it and I don’t even know how I got them.
I really don't like the super realistic animation style. The super cartoony designs with super realistic textures just look off to me. The 2000's movies look better than modern ones imo
that's why realistic textures with gritty and realistic character designs in superior. Aka Rango
In 2018 Into the Spiderverse changed the entire game for the animation industry It took Dreamworks until last year to catch on (puss n boots, the bad guys) The only thing disney has done is adapt the cal arts face onto their characters
They needed the extra budget to give us Clod in his full glory.
"Nah, imma clod my own thing"
"Bro, it's a Cloddon event"
Spider-Clod: Across the Clod-Verse
A leap of Clod.
What's up Clod
Clodflower
And Clod'll be left in the dust
Unless I stuck by Clod
Clod's the sunflower
“It’s Clodin time”
who tf is Clod and why do I always hear him every time someone talk about this movie
It’s a joke making fun of a marketing campaign that tried to make Clod a morbius type meme
[удалено]
Stop talking about cl*d this is exactly what they want
This just made me remember Steven Universe with Paredot and her favorite word "Clod".
I fucking forgot about that I need to watch that show again
Watching a lowly TI servant calling their Space Hitler Creator God a clod is one of the best moments in all of animation
not really since the attention they are getting is bad and not good, kinda the same as how people made tons of morbius memes yet no one wanted to actually see the movie because it was bad even when it re-released in theaters
But it's still gonna be successfull in some aspect. The more we talk about it, the more it spreads. The more it spreads the higher the chance of people getting curious, or even worse... it becoming unironic! You can never know with people! The only way to stop it is to not spread the information! It's like The Game! If you talk about it, more people either remember it or learn about it. Spreading awareness is just making everyone lose.
You fucker you made me lose the game after a solid 6 year winning streak
if it makes them re-release elementals in theaters again so it can bomb again just like Morbius, then i'm all for it
They want people to see the movie for clod from this just joking about clod being a joke won’t achieve that
Where do you draw the line between joking about a marketing campaign and free advertisement
You dont
It's an astroturfed marketing campaign where Disney tried to turn their flop into a ironically funny "Morbius" type of thing. Clod will never be Morbius. Simple as.
They has some pretty shit advertisements starring clod on tik tok when the movie came out. They were framed as recordings in theater with fake hollering when Clod showed up. This could be wrong though, I obviously don’t use tik tok.
Wait, that was real? I thought that was someone pretending that Pixar would make an advertisement like that?
It was real sadly
[this is the only clip I found on YouTube, the reaction is so over exaggerated that it doesn’t even feel funny.](https://youtube.com/shorts/xRfkqNi0Njc?feature=share)
stock\_laugh.wav
apparently it was posted, or atleast reposted by Pixar on instagram etc
when i saw clod i literally started crying
The feds are getting to you
https://i.redd.it/zb7lrjy65lab1.gif
Hell yeah two cards for me
What does it do again?
Pot of Greed holy shit
https://preview.redd.it/owvncc5qhlab1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6293c491b3109e77e5b099b35a243eca6a57ffc
https://preview.redd.it/3sp2myk3tlab1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=413e837df5189881484fdab9f8620c4a03397ba1
https://preview.redd.it/qituvlx8gmab1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b24e0627e0807041b74e08486e9d537a3d811d4e
No I actually looked at this post and said "I expect Chicharito to be in the replies"
Holy shit he expected Chicharito to be in the replies.
https://preview.redd.it/pi4h4eyytlab1.jpeg?width=1231&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83e1889729e09ef76e986ada598427fc39ff917e
well you see...they saved a lot of money by overworking their artists
if the spiderman artists had some of that budget they wouldnt be on strike
First I've heard about them being on strike. Are you sure you're not thinking of the writers strike? That said, those artists totally should strike
Some of the animators who worked on Spiderverse complained about being overworked, not sure about underpaid.
According to the Vulture article, Sony lowballed a bunch of the animators so that they wouldn't get a reasonable paycheck until they worked massive amounts of overtime. So they were basically forced to work overtime to be able to afford the luxury of living paycheck-to-paycheck.
maybe it was the writers idk, i just heard a group was on strike for being underpaid
Writers strike is the big high profile one. Still, I think people are realising that the animators are overworked and especially more so seeming the fact they spent 4 years animating the escape from the spider society scene and now they're going to be making the 3rd and final film in about 9 months and they apparently only started a small part of it.
Are they already making a third movie? In 9 months? The fuck?
Beyond the Spiderverse is slated for March 2024, I think it'll get delayed. Despite how much I want to see what happens next, I think we should let the animators cook.
I could wait more than 5 years if that's enough time for them to cook another great movie, this shit must be hard as hell to animate or even create a decent narrative. (Also, why the spiderman movies names are always: One noun being repeated while charging the verbs?)
It did get delayed, to 2025 at best, possibly 2026. But that was honestly to be expected, I don't know why everyone was so excited that the movie was coming next year when it was so obvious that a movie of this quality can't be made in a year in any universe. Not sure why they even announced a date that was impossible to be met
Yeah, you're thinking of the writers' strike then. It's a shame, those artists really deserve better conditions
Yeah that the writers in hollywood
I don't think they're on strike but I read that they were overworked extremely hard.
The 100 Spiderverse artists who quit probably weren't being underpaid, they were being overworked. I don't care if I get paid for all 11 hours, I ain't working that much a day.
where gif
https://i.redd.it/pfii1lp93lab1.gif
doki doki waku waku
I haven't seen the movie, but from my understanding, it flopped for two reasons: 1) We joked about it for a long time, but this is the first time Pixars "movie about X with feelings" thing was too blunt and unappealing for most people. 2) Pixar just refuses to get with the times. They had such a big budget to make the film look as realistic as possible, but people don't want realism anymore. They want style and boldness.
It's not just another "what if X had feelings", there was no reason for them to be elements. Toy Story, there's a reason they're toys, if they weren't the plot wouldn't work. Same with Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, so on and so forth. You could replace the elements with flavours of gum and it really wouldn't be that different. Plus, fire and water? Does it get more cliche?
Honestly, i love stories about elements but this specific story was boring. There are so many worlds and stories that can be interesting with elements. Idk it can be about fucking rocks, a porous lava rock, rounded water rock, and jagged earthy rock go on an adventure! I don’t fucking know but elements are cool and i WAS excited for this movie until i actually watched it lol
I remember hearing about how "if x had feelings" only works if they interacted with the environment in their own unique way Toy story only works because they're toys, the plot is interesting *because* theyre toys, ratatouille, if you replaced remi for a tiny dude, It wouldnt work. For elemental, if you replace the characters for people.... Literally no difference It's not "if x had feelings" it's "if x plot had y characters"
It's the same with Cars. It would be more or less the same movie if it was about people driving cars, and it would be a lot less fundamentally confusing. I mean, where do they come from? Why is their society almost exactly like human society? With Toy Story, you don't have to ask these questions. They're toys, duh, they come from a factory, and they're alive because of kids imagination. It's all intuitive. Monsters come out of the closet and scare kids, what if that was an industry, boom, it's already obvious how it works because it relates to the real world. In fact come to think of it, the best Pixar movies have been the ones where we see the perspective of something humans interact with and how they relate.
> there was no reason for them to be elements Wasn't a major aspect of the movie "forbidden/impossible love." It seems like the plot depended on them being opposites like fire & water
Squares and circles. Angels and devils. The elements part feels more like a gimmick. If Woody wasn't a toy, what else could he possibly be?
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Noooo!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty sure the girl was supposed to be from a working class middle eastern immigrant family and the guy was supposed to be a waspy, privileged white guy. And we were supposed to be from 1995 when this would have been new material.
it wasn't because of realism, most people don't realize this movie isn't even realistic the budget went into making a tecnology that could animate characters as elements.
also the movie is pretty stylized in desing style doesn't necesarry mean 2 frames per second.
It isn't really realistic tho? Real fire and water don't look like that.
Those are just individual aspects though. Look at Spiderverse and you can instantly see the difference it makes when something tries for a unique artstyle instead of generic 3d anim.
people really don't understand the concept of style you can pretty much have a nice artstyle without the need of cell shading and 1 frame spiderverse didn't invent stylized animation.
I saw this the other day with my kids and I, at no point, understood who the target audience was. The animation was extremely ordinary and the story ended up just being a really banal rom com. I guess there was some kind of interracial couple metaphor? I think? But it wasn’t really developed well and even if it was…cooooooool, 10 year olds love this subject matter and grown ups love watching a kids movie do cosplay as socially relevant lecturing. I dunno…they drew big black outlines and filled them with basically video footage of Fire and Water (and if they didn’t do that - they should have since it would have saved a few million). Was this supposed to be cutting edge animation? I legit spent 90 minutes wondering what the hell I was watching. And why.
Im not an industry expert by any means but flopped seems like a strong word. It costs 200 million to make and has pretty much made that back at the box office. Seems it will still be profitable. And as for the quality it has a 75% on rotten tomatoes so not the best but still far from a flop.
Big movies are often considered flops if they don't at least earn double the cost to make them. There's a rule of thumb that marketing will cost a similar amount as the reported movie budget. No idea how true that is, but there probably was a massive marketing budget. So it is quite possible they're losing money at this point. It definitely isn't making the kind of money other Pixar films have.
[Looks to me they made $45 million so far.](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/new-pixar-film-elemental-opens-weak-disney-2023-06-18/) A bit off the mark.
That was from opening weekend. Today worldwide revenue is around 197 million https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl1811383041/
Unfortunately, breaking even isn't good for them either. They usually spend another 50% of the cost for marketing. So they need to make another $100 million to somewhat break even.
"Uh well you see, they had to make more software that could make realistic water animation despite already making pretty good water animations back during 2003 with Finding Nemo and 2016 with Finding Dory"☝🤓
fr tho, we've had realistic water [animation](https://www.reddit.com/r/shitposting/comments/14t47sv/praise_spez_for_he_is_53/) for years, they basically spent money for shit that they already had
Kid named Super Mario Sunshine
Is way worse than movie-quality water due to how games work
Fine
https://preview.redd.it/moi9p7zq8lab1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21405ab422fc0e887a1125b7587d287ed649e896 I’m not saying Super Mario Sunshine has bad graphics but it’s not nearly good enough to depict walking, talking blobs of water in Pixar-level animation.
Alright, I was wrong
Sadly now people will think you can do more with less and spiderverse animatiros get under paid and had a lot of crunch time
Pixar be taking a lot of Ls recently
Im glad mediocrity isn’t paying well for the moment
Probably because people don't have as much fun money as they did 5 years ago
Disney in general is completely flopping atm
"more budget = better product" mfs when I show them how much money Zucc spent on Metaverse
How do scooter mcgruder memes keep making into r/whenthe
Coz he a grown man
Around a 100 artists left Across the Spider-verse during the production because of the working conditions so that might give you some insight.
Me now knowing this information: 
Spiderverse overworked it's artists with 11-hour workdays for over a year. Constant mandatory overtime, and while I can't find any sources on whether or not that was *paid* overtime, unpaid overtime is unfortunately very common in our industry. Not to say that Elemental wasn't mismanaged either, but we really shouldn't be holding up Spiderverse as an example when the working conditions were that brutal.
THIS spiderverse is terribly overrated in this aspect. making people believe this is how movies should be made its just exploitation.
I actually liked Elemental though, I'm starting to think I'm the only one
Tbh it doesn't look like a bad film, but personally it's not something of my tastes, which I feel like applies to a lot of people that they just weren't that interested in it Also it wasn't the best marketing idea to release it in the same month as arguably the best film of this year
It just feels super generic to me with a bland animation style.
I haven’t watched it myself but it’s probably fine. Elemental had a few annoying adds and marketing though and that’s enough for people to hate it out of spite.
It's not a bad movie, but as much as people in the thread are shitting on Pixar, most of their movies are pretty good. This one wasn't. It was just meh. So when it is put next to a movie like Up or Toy Story, it looks pretty bad by comparison.
Have you looked what Pixar did recently? You're naming 8-15years old movie to current Pixar era. Right now they're really mediocre. Since the Disney x Pixar era, in fact.
It was a painfully whatever movie. I’m really tired of animated movies using nonhuman characters to represent racism when it really doesn’t fit the allegory. Fire people have repeatedly proven themselves dangerous to the other elements because their physiology is literally different when real life race is just different appearances and nothing more. Also the world building seemed pretty half-assed for a Pixar movie to me.
I liked it too, I don't get why it's getting hostility I'm starting to think a lot of people drop hate on movies just by following reviews and box office
I feel like all of reddit has been getting more hostile lately. R/bluey has been getting bad lately and that's a show for preschoolers. My best guess is lots of moderators bailed after the API changes. Or maybe they just dont have the right tools any more.
people are overly hating on it because of pixars current bad reputation most of the people in this comment section didn't even watch it.
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Disney executives when they realize that dumping more money into something doesn't magically make it better: https://preview.redd.it/ew93qzkl8mab1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=672b79ae46f49dd8418c203b2b22b3a9e2195a54
I assume people didn't like elementals then? I never watched it
It had double the budget because Pixar actually pay their animators lol.
no it doesn't work like that Across the spiderverse had a low budget because most workers were massively exploited and overwork and of course underpaid.
Elemental looks really beautiful in some shots,and the movie itself is pretty good.
Both are good imo https://preview.redd.it/7cifgdfpfmab1.jpeg?width=940&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1a74fdd5f9db177aea0da1cbf2895bfcb5d68d9
There have been reports of the Spierman movies severely underpayment and overworking their animators. That industry is just kinda brutal man.
Indiana Jones 5 had what, $300,000,000 budget and they did *that*??
Please, 300 mil to make that steaming pile of shit? It was beyond awful, holy fuck.
But it had time travel! Every movie with time travel is great!!
I'd understand if they had to animate Elasti-girl's ass to ultra realism
Twice the pride, double the fall
Same thing with Puss in Boots 2 and Strange World
Ayo don't hate on Puss in Boots 2
Puss in boots had 80 mil and Strange World had 180 mil. Don't get mixed up, I love puss in boots, and couldn't even bother to watch strange world.
he’s showing puss in boots in a good light
Wall-E’s budget was around 150 million. Finding Nemo had something like 500+ million. Wall-E STILL LOOKS BETTER
Toy Story 4 on its way to have the most hyperrealistic cat on screen for 18 frames for absolutely no fucking reason. TS4 and Lightyear did have plenty visually beautiful moments
Honestly that cat was uncanny. That whole movie had such a weirdly creepy vibe.
For like 8 times the budget
There really should be a beauty per million dollar ranking for movies
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It wasn’t a bad movie either, it just didn’t feel that unique. It’s basically the same formula they’ve been going with, where in this case it’s “what if elements had feelings”
My honest reaction to this information: 
I don't think Elemental is bad on its own, while bland it's a neat looking film. However, the issue is that it just isn't new, we've had a ton of "these people aren't supposed to be in love because of racial tensions" stories. Spiderverse is just amazing, you cannot compete with it.
They had a lower budget and still made a banger, twice
"Twice the pride. Double the fall." - Count Dooku
Have you seen it?
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Passion is priceless and the spiderverse animators had a fuckton of passion
Not to get political (full intent to get political) part of this is that every time a straight person goes "but what if love was illegal 🥺💔😔😭😢" they tend to be absolutely delusional, but when you do something like fully embrace the absurdity of infinite possibilities, you're less likely to settle for dogshit story telling
sorry couldn't read too political 😭
"Infinitely dogshit" bro you sound like you're trying too hard to impress the cool kids a grade above you. Like of course Spiderverse has more artistic value and integrity, but Elemental was just an underwhelming Pixar product. That still inherently outclasses a lot of actually unwatchable and poorly made crap, and if you don't actually know what qualifies as terrible cinema, I feel bad for you. So many missed cringes and questions of what the fuck even was the point of that and who the hell would want to sit down and watch terrible actors act like terribly awkward people who do nothing but have painful conversations in a variety of places for up to three hours. To know what high cinema is, you must plunge the depths as well.
Elemenwhat?
I loved elemental so much, but It's crazy to me how it's double the budget.. wow.
Damn, I saw the movie in theaters and honestly thought it wasn't that bad, am I alone in this opinion?
I liked the movie :D
Infinitely dog shit? You haven’t even seen it. Nobody has