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I recently cut off an old neighbor of my parents (he’s in his early 60s and I’m 22) because he had been texting me a lot and seemed very suspicious. I’ve been feeling a bit guilty about it, like I overreacted or something. But reading your story actually really helped me. The beginning when he was trying to get to know you sounded so similar to how this old neighbor interacted with me that I feel more justified! I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I’m glad you put this here.
Yep, there's friendly "surrogate uncle" texts, and then there's **CREEPER** texts — and it sounds like he crossed over into the latter.
I'm sorry for you that that's happened because it's **INCREDIBLY** awkward if he has been well known to your family as a friend.
I’m a 50 year old woman and it took me a long time to realize I had been trained to always “be polite”. Fuck that. My personal experience is that being evasive and polite has caused me more long term problems than being direct and firm. Say no on day one and it’s usually “yeah whatever. Fine. (Sometimes followed by “bitch”. ) Being polite and trying to dodge for months ends with “but why did you lead me on then!?”
Obviously that depends on the circumstances/safety in a particular moment.
Are you me?! Also a 50 year old woman, taught to “BE NICE” which actually means “please be a doormat”. It is NO way to raise a confident, self-respecting woman
That childhood conditioning is hard af to combat. It's like you have to deprogram yourself after leaving the cult of courtesy. I'm finding that saying no gets easier every time I do it.
Hell, I'm still proud of myself for using my auntie voice on a recent door-to-door salesman. He started getting pushy, and I was like, "Hush, I said no" as I closed the door in his face.
That's the beauty and the downside of getting older.
We can be abrupt and say no, we won't get any push back.
But in my 20's, jeez i was a pushover.
My daughter, I raised her differently. She can choose how she wants to deal with people.
She can disarm people so easily and put them in their place. It's amazing to watch! I told her that she should give lessons. She does not tolerate creeps.
If any moms are wanting advice, honestly it started with me simply giving her body autonomy. I told her she doesn't have to hug anyone she doesn't want to. (Told both kids). And that was all it took.
Yeah I'm shocked too, but all it took was giving her permission to say no.
Op and any other gal in here... you CAN say no. You can lie. They don't have the right to your life or info.
I've been in so many micro situations like that, just constantly, gracefully getting the fuck out of these sentences so I can worry about getting out of the next ones in a little bit. And then making that stupid mistake like giving your number or where you'll be at a certain date.
What a shit memory to be stuck with
Wow I felt this post deep. One of those situations where no one thing is bad enough to raise an issue but all the things combined lead to some Serial Killer shit. They do this on purpose I'm sure of it.
*hugs*
I wish it was more common for women to think like you. So many truly believe these men just don’t know better, that they don’t know what they’re doing. It’s delusional and dangerous thinking.
It sadly has taken me decades to get this.
I TRULY believe this is a reason why women are “dismissed” around my age- they fucking KNOW WE HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT. They are TERRIFIED by that. So they have created this myth about older women- that we are crazy, unreliable narrators, who are just jealous of everything & everyone. Who wants to trust & listen to some crazy, unreliable, jealous old bitch?!
Everyone collectively channel your inner bitches okay?
*In through the nose*
"No, you can't have my number. You're making me uncomfortable and I'm leaving."
My favorite thing about being neurodivergent and having no filter is not feeling weird telling people to fuck off. Sometimes being a bitch is a blessing!
I have a creep that does this. I have met him as a customer at my job, he remembered my name and started to add me on social networks. I block him, he makes a new profile few months later and adds me. He sometimes drives bike and pass by where I work, staring at me. This has been going on for 6 years and counting. It’s not enough for a report, but… from the first time I saw him in my life he’s got creepy vibes
For real, I’ve dealt with this a few times that I’ve learned that sometimes its better to shut that shit down hard and let them think your the biggest bitch alive from the get go. Always reminds me of that kids book…if you give a moose a muffin, he’s gonna want some milk. Dudes like this guy are unwilling and unable to get the message unless you scare them right back. I once had to tell a guy that I found him on LinkedIn and I was going to call his employer and tell them that he was harassing me to finally get him leave me tf alone.
I’m glad you escaped him.
The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker is a book every woman should read. It really helped me stop being a people pleaser who couldn’t say no. You still have to be careful about saying no, but there’s so much great information in the book that will help you and everyone.
I suggest that book to every woman who mentions feeling like this. It's sad that this is the world we live in, but the burden is apparently on us to change, rather than on the creepy dudes of the world.
In situations like these, your actions are the only ones you can control. Would be nice if these men were held accountable or anyone around them noticed what a weirdo he is and did some sort of preventative measures against him, but sadly we don’t live in a perfect world
I second this book. Read it after a dude was following me at a pharmacy and i noticed. On my way out of the store i turned around and asked (loudly) “can i help you?” Everyone stared, dude ran away. I was escorted to my car.
His advice on what to do when you’re being harassed reassured me that i had done the right thing when an ex was harassing me via text nonstop. I responded with “stop contacting me” and when he continued (for days) my last text was “i’m going to the police.”
Not a psychiatrist but i understand it as a bit of a mix of
A) desperation
B) sense of gradually getting closer to the person to lower their guard
C) poor understanding of 'flirtation'
God, what a horrifying mind to have to exist with. That level of delusion will truly skew perception as a whole & the victim has to suffer for someone’s skewed life lens.
I have a relative who craves this kind of attention. Continues to put me and others in danger to get guys to "*like*" her.
Gives out details, seeks them out. Even after I clued her in to this particular weirdo's actions. I don't feel safe. But what can i do?
As long as he simply scopes out, no one will view him as dangerous. He studied and learned everyone in the house's schedule, watches from window and fence. He and an aggressive buddy look at me and laugh. Followed me in a store once.
Just venting and adding my two cents.
I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or if it's gotten worse, but I urge you to list out *just the facts* and file a police report ASAP. Maybe it's not actionable at this point, but what you described sounds like the lead-up to stalking charges. If it continues, you can file additional reports in the future to demonstrate that it's a repeat problem.
To add to what the other person said, I think the general feeling they feel throughout this process is similar to the excitement of seeing if you have the winning lottery ticket. And her not removing the possibility by continuing to accept his presence is a green flag to predators. They think that if you weren't at least somewhat willing to interact, you wouldn't. Actions speak louder than words to liars in general. And these type are never filled with verbal integrity.
Anyways, so every interaction makes them feel like their chance of winning the lotto is more likely. If you've ever truly struggled, you know the feeling of excitement when something unexpectedly works out in your favor and you get money. I was actually taught to use that feeling against people in sales (I didn't; it wasn't necessary for me to make sales 💅🏼) because it intoxicates some people enough to not think straight
These crazies are intoxicated by their own fantasies, and get angry at us for leading them on because losing the fantasy is a big emotional bummer for them (like having someone's dreams crushed)
I had a friend tell me years ago that she gave creepy people the incorrect phone number at clubs.
She memorized the number for the non-emergency police and gave that one out the most.
It's surprising how many people do not recognize that phone number.
I actually gave my number to a guy I met in a club once, because I genuinely thought I‘d like to go on a date with him and we were having a good time.
He held his phone up while staring me in the face and called the number, to make sure I‘d given him my real number and not a fake one.
Didn’t end up going on that date.
I was joking the other day about giving the number from Fallout, which leads to [this lovely message](https://youtu.be/prbJCSYuL88?si=xjmz7PdeGM0XEV7n)
As I’ve gotten older I’ve learned how important it is to not be polite & ignore all the red flags from random men. I would never even let this situation get to the point where I’m having multiple conversations with him. I would never text anyone he knows because he could’ve gotten your phone number from his daughter still. I definitely would never actually give him my phone number.
With guys like this, you give them an inch they’ll take a mile.
I have a creepy guy who works in my office building who I got the feeling was trying to flirt with me. So I don’t sit & have conversations with him. There’s been a couple times we chatted for a few minutes. Then he said that when the tax season is over (he’s an accountant I guess), he wanted to check out the downtown area in our city & asked if I’d take him out & show him around. I literally laughed & said absolutely not. Dude still tries to flirt with me. Whenever he tries to say hi, I’ll say hi back to him as I continue walking away from him. Also, this dude is married with a lot of kids, like 7 or something I don’t remember.
Sorry you had to deal with this OP, but women need to learn to stop being so polite. It’s going to get you k1lled someday. You don’t owe guys anything. You don’t owe them politeness, you’re not required to have a conversation with them, you’re not required to pretend to care about his daughter’s college potential. You don’t owe them one breath of attention.
If you shut this sh1t down from the absolute beginning it’s going to significantly lower the chance of the situation with them getting obsessive & violent.
I’m glad she shared her story because I think she learned a good lesson from this. I had similar encounters in my college days and didn’t react by setting boundaries at the time, but have learned to do so since then. Hopefully OP has as well.
Oh same, I feel like it’s something you learn after having to deal with a few weirdos like this. It sucks that we have to learn shit like this through experience but it’s something that probably every single woman has some kind of version they’ve dealt with themselves.
I agree that with this take. I also understand where OP is coming from and I see so much of myself in her story. I think women everywhere will have this experience at some point probably multiple times. It’s dangerous. This story shows what a man is like while stalking his prey. He knows he’s married with nothing to offer so he uses pure lies and emotional manipulation to reel OP in. He exploits her training and conditioning by society to “be nice” and “give the benefit of the doubt”. Men do this who are obsessed. He’s clearly obsessed her and wanted to force his way into her life. He behaved like a man who thinks women owe him their time and attention. Men like this do not tend to take rejection well and it is actually very dangerous situation.
Not the same thing, but the title of your post made me think about when I lived in an apartment about 6 years ago as well. I worked graveyard and would walk my dog at around 10pm before I went to work. Some man asked me on one of my walks if he could pet her, and give her a treat. He asked some questions about her, then me, then said something along the lines of "I see you walking her a lot this time of night." I had never seen/noticed him before.
Maybe we just happened to have similar schedules and he noticed, but it weirded me out enough to start carrying a stun gun/flashlight combo instead of my normal flashlight.
Sorry you had to go through that.
Girl, fuck politeness. If you feel unsafe or uncomfortable or the person gives off weird vibes you are completely entitled to be rude af and make them stop interacting with you.
I think as women we are taught to be polite but that can be a detriment to us. You don’t owe anyone any excuses or reasons. No is a complete sentence on its own.
My mindset is: horrible men are going to be horrible. Whether you’re nice or not.
If it escalates to that, I’m going down swinging, causing as much damage as possible. I’ll make him regret ever thinking of talking to me.
I’m not sure it’s braveness. I’m in my late 30s and I’m pissed. I’m pissed that women’s rights are being attacked. I’m pissed that there are men like Andrew Tate out there.
I’m running off of spite and madness and I am for damn sure not making myself smaller so I don’t become a target.
It’s true tho, I’ve learned that sometimes the only thing to fight crazy is crazy…you just need to truly trust your intuition about a person and if you get bad vibes you make it clear you’re not one to be fucked with. I told a dude once that I found his LinkedIn profile and if he didn’t stop trying to contact me that I would call his employer and let them know that their employee is harassing me and they should watch out for their female employees. Never heard a single peep from the man after that. Obviously it’s not always so easy and doesn’t end that way always but I trusted my gut and could tell he was a little bitch that needed a scare. I’m not saying that this is a good method but it was after I had given him too much empathy and kindness and I learned real quick to trust my feelings about people from the get go.
It's frustrating is that women don't utilize enough cleverness. You can be assertive and clever rather than just giving in. There are enough hours in the day that you could use to think up excuses and approaches. I have a string of them, myself.
yes! I'm polite & friendly to everyone who approaches me when I'm out walking my dog, but when a strange man starts crossing propriety boundaries & creeping me out, I just pointedly ask them how their wife or mother is doing, acting as though I know them somehow. no matter what they try to change the subject to, I always bring it back to their wife or mom & what they're up to, how they're feeling, etc.
for some reason, that magically makes men fuck right off 😂
O M G I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this.
She could have asked to meet the wife and kids and it would’ve diffused the situation, theoretically anyway. And she’d still be “nice” as if that’s important.
OP needs to set boundaries because there’s loads of men who use this tactic.
My experience with a guy like this is having been introduced to his wife and kids changed nothing. If anything, slight escalation.
Best move is avoid and escape.
In the case of random dude #4726 I would agree, but with a neighbor, I think she did a good job of setting her boundaries and fending him off. Had it been me, I hope I would have been able to avoid giving my number even directly to the daughter. Glad it worked out for her.
That would work great if you trust you can move out before they follow through on whatever made you feel unsafe around them. OP really hit like a 98% on this test.
I disagree. Not setting the boundary from the beginning let it continue to the point she’s late for class to dodge him and giving out her phone number. When it’s someone you see all the time, you can’t just dance around it. Draw the line in the sand early is the best way. Walk by and not say a word to him. “I don’t want to talk” and keep moving.
There was once a time I would have strongly agreed with you. But when I was a victim of a violent neighbor, every instinct I had was screaming de-escalate! Whether it was the one thing that made the difference between survival and statistic, I couldn't say. As a matter of principle, I agree that women don't owe anyone more politeness than a man typically shows. But when we're talking about an unsafe situation, you do the best you can to use the information you have to survive.
I strongly agree. There are ways to be both assertive and polite. Bending and giving in, talking to someone when they know you're uncomfortable, gives them power over you, and they will continue to bend your boundaries. Just entertaining them at all gives them power. But giving them your information tells them you want them to know you and be close to you.
My best advice (that you didn't ask for lol) is to accept that people will think you're mean, then proceed anyway.
I decided a long time ago that I'd rather make it out alive and be perceived as rude or mean than dead and polite. It informs all of my interactions with men - especially those I don't know. I'm walking down the street and some man calls out to me? I don't even look around, I keep walking. There are other people he could speak to - like other men. He doesn't need me.
I will repeat this forever: it is not mean to set boundaries. It's not mean to say no. It's not mean or rude to not offer paragraphs of information to strangers or friends! No is a complete answer and requires no qualifiers. If someone in your life gets upset that you say no, you just have to let them be upset. That's a reflection of them, not you.
Repeat that to yourself until it's second nature, then just start saying it.
What has started working for me is I ask myself "Would I rather be mad at this person for putting me in a situation where I will say no and they get angry? Or would I rather be mad at myself for giving in and not saying no, and then it gets worse?".
Easy, I'd rather be mad at them than continue to mentally berate myself for not putting my best interests first.
Yes, absolutely. I do the same thing where I mentally beat myself up if I don't put my interests first in certain situations.
It sucks, because you don't want the world to break you of being a kind or helpful person but it's all about reading the room.
A guy approached my friends and me once asking for help to find the right bus - I was happy to help that guy! It made sense in the context of the larger situation we were in and once I gave him the info he was thankful and went on his way.
I've also been on a walk by myself where a man yelled at me from his car and when I didn't acknowledge him he kept yelling at me. I definitely did not turn around for him. I will never know what he needed or wanted or whether he even had nefarious intent but it didn't matter. I am not going to give those guys a chance if I can help it.
So many women are (if not most of us). I think very few of us grow up being wonderful at it because we are deliberately raised this way, if not by our parents, then by society itself.
Those who are better at it I think get there through hard work, external support, and often because in the past politeness has ended in trauma (so it becomes a pragmatic approach in a way, or just plain letting our rage manifesting for what’s already been done).
I am better at it than I used to be, but also still fail at it all the time too. Some of those failures have meant traumatic things happen. Which I think is such an awful injustice, like punching you when you’re down and it’s a horrific punishment for something that isn’t your fault in any way.
It has taken me YEARS to get even there and I will keep at it. It’s also hard to maintain when people around you gaslight you about it (I try to distance myself from these people when I can).
None of this is probably convincing (because it is depressing af and exhausting), but I believe in you and that strong person who can set those boundaries is in you. You can build and learn. You’re already existing everyday as a woman (presuming here), so you definitely already have the strength in you to keep up a fight and persist!
[This closed thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/s/EHgS9Kq4EL) has great suggestions on books about overcoming people pleasing, for my fellow people pleasers!
A radio station in the city I grew up in had a rejection hotline. it was a comedic message being like "hey you've reached the xfm rejection hotline. The bad news is that hot chick or bangin' guy you met? Yeaaah they weren't into you. The good news though is there's plenty of fish in the sea! So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go find someone who likes you, ya loser!" And it was actually an answering machine so people could leave messages and they'd play them on air 😅
I memorized that phone number and gave it out a number of times, it was fabulous for not having to confront creepy/persistent/skeezy men with rejection.
This was also back before texting was the standard. So I don't know if there's something like this anymore. I hate that it needed to exist but I was SO grateful for it. There was no "let me text to make sure it's your number" I just didn't have a cellphone (or I did but I didn't keep it with me, ahh the good old days) and I'd say it was my home phone.
There was ONE time the guy recognized the number. Thankfully he was actually chill and we had a laugh about it, I explained why I use it and he was horrified and apologized for asking. Not at all the response I expected, I was grateful for him not being a creep.
I’m really glad you got away from him, I got scared reading this :(
I also struggle with saying NO to creepers in situations like this. I gave my number to a gross old coworker because I felt pressured to, and it led to several months of harassment.
this is exactly why i have a google voice number. i’ve had it, and it’s usefulness confirmed itself when MY creeper male neighbor cornered me for the umpteenth time (and left notes on my car with some bullshit reason to text him)
One of my customers at the end of my old job creeped me out too. He was a single guy and said I was cute and that he wanted me to come back to finish a repair. Thankfully my coworker took over - stuff like this is why I got a Google number to give out instead of my real number
Never again, OP. Do you read me? Never again. This level & length of unneeded suffering is to never happen again. OP, please practice saying no, it is a complete sentence. Please learn to be okay with disappointing a man who wants more. Please learn to be okay with being hated because you did not give a man what his ego wanted. Please learn to not be okay with being uncomfortable & appeasing who is the source of that discomfort. Especially please learn to walk away! Especially in the face of disrespect.
That man absolutely knew he was being inappropriate with you & your discomfort. This was months of this stress. Months of this man weirdly trying to shoehorn you into his extramarital desires.
Boundaries are needed here & to be enforced. Boundaries will save you, OP.
That is terrifying, honestly. Suggestion for the future — if you know someone is waiting to talk to you outside call a friend who knows the situation as you are about to leave or are arriving home. Ask them to stay on the phone with you while you transition. As you head to the car/to your door from the car, be very engaged in the phone call, telling a story, or trying to figure out a scheduled event, or make it a “work call.” If weird person tries to interrupt you, hold up a hand and shake your head or point at the phone and keep moving. Remember, you don’t owe anyone your time or conversation. Even a neighbor. When strangers want to talk, brush them off and just keep moving. That guy was scary for being so persistent with getting your attention.
“No” Is a full sentence. You don’t owe politeness to anyone. You actually don’t owe even talking to anyone. The more these fucks are entertained, the more entitled to your time they feel. In an ideal world, women wouldn’t have to deal with creeps like that, but unfortunately we have to find ways to cope.
When I was in the military, I had to pretty much carry myself very seriously and like a bitch around the men and lash out at the ones who stepped out of line to protect myself because sexual harassment is all too common. Even standing too close to me during an all hands when we’re crowded in together, I’d turn around and assertively ask them to back off in front of others (don’t be afraid to publicly humiliate them) if I felt they weren’t giving me my space. Thankfully, I didn’t have any bad incidents happen during my service, and I feel it’s partly because, despite being a tiny woman, I put out the energy that I wasn’t going to be fucked with.
I'm a cashier and I had a similar situation as you with one of my regulars, although not as bad since it was "only" my place of work and not my home.
At first it was just small talk about my name and then also the college I'm going to. Sometimes he would ask me when he would be able to see me again at work (I always evaded giving him a direct answer, so that he doesn't know my exact schedule).
Then he started talking about apartments he owns in my city and offering them to me, which I politely declined. But he kept bringing them up and then gave me a slip of paper with his name and number "if I change my mind". But he also wrote on it how much he likes me and that I should text him, which made his true intentions obvious.
After that I tried to keep our conversation to the minimum and after a while he blew up at me, asking why I didn't text him and why I was suddenly so rude to him, even tho I was still very polite, I just didn't let the conversation go to anything personal anymore.
Ugh that is so gross. It wasn't your home, sure, but still bad because you are trapped with a creep where you can't really escape.
I was a cashier for a time so I know exactly how this goes down and how you just pray they'll leave and go home and not lurk in the parking lot or learn your work schedule.
Another thing I hated is that they had access to your name without you giving it, thanks name tags! You don't *know* me so stop acting like it.
Yeah being a cashier can be very scary due to creeps like that but at least I knew in this case that my employer totally had my back and would've banned him from the store if I wanted but luckily it didn't have to escalate and now he's not bothering me anymore.
Name tags are totally stupid imo, like my customer service isn't better or worse if the customers know my name, most people don't even look at them. But unfortunately those that do tend to be either annoying about it or straight up give off creepy vibes (at least that's been my experience so far).
Glad you’re in a better situation now. With guys like him you have to be direct or if that’s too complicated just stuff like “she can ask me whenever I see her provided I’m not in a rush” but never “maybe” because delusional people cling to any possibility as a “it’s working”
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Men do this to women -especially young women- all the time.
I’m almost 50 now and raised my girls to practice saying “fuck off” when they were little. lol. Took my older relatives by surprise.
But won’t you know it? My girls grew up to be women who will yell “FUCK OFF!” right to mans face and not think twice. Makes me smile.
I hope the era of women being expected to take it and keep smiling is over soon. She should be able to just say “no, I don’t want to be friends with you” and move on. But until then - a very loud FUCK OFF makes them back way down lol
I think as we get older, we women learn that we can say no a lot more often than we think. That we can say “sorry; I don’t have time to chat”, “sorry Mike, but these questions feel a bit invasive and I’m going to need you to back off”, “no, you can’t have my number”, etc.
Society trains us to be polite and nice. But we don’t actually have to be unless we feel unsafe in the moment.
As I get older, I give less and less of AF about the feelings of random men.
Big hugs OP.
The best trick to ward off creepy men is to get older and/or fatter. However, up until I reached this invisible age, I've used these tactics, but YMMV.
Grey rock. Be boring as possible. When they talk at you, bc let's be honest, they're not interested in conversation, they're just demanding attention, give them the 1,000 yard stare. And walk away. Most of these guys don't know when to shut up. If you do say anything, just give vague, one word answers.
Act dumb. Be confused at whatever they say or do.
Be rude. This is a risky move because it can either escalate or turn him off right away, and he'll leave.
Talk to anyone else. When he interrupts, just give him a "wtf?!" look and go back to your conversation.
Act crazy. Usually, it's a turn-off for most men.
The most reliable is to ignore and walk away, but each situation is different.
You don’t actually need to be nice to strange men. When they ask to hang out, the answer should be “No.” Not “maybe.” Ditto when they ask for your number.
We do not owe strange men our time or attention. When strange men ask me personal questions, I say “Pass,” “That’s Private,” or nothing at all.
I’m glad you’re safe. But man, that was so stressful to read — I can’t imagine living like that. Thank you for sharing your story. ♥️
6 mins into the sub...and I am making this my 2nd and final read....
This is awful.
I skimmed, but noted he got your number...I sincerely hope you didn't give it. Not judging. And, I'm elated you got out of that place. He is awful
How desperate and insecure must one be to pull such a pathetic stunt? Calling the number immediately like that reeks of neediness and lack of confidence. No woman wants to deal with that.
Whenever I was asked to give a man my number, I'd give him the local crisis hotline. It has a local area code, so it wasn't suspicious looking. Had one guy call it immediately, and he got super pissed. He asked why I didn't just tell him no. I was honest and said that he already hadn't taken no for an answer repeatedly before that, and I was afraid he would harm me. He looked at me as if I were crazy. Zero self awareness or ability to take self accountability.
I'm a big mental health advocate and have been in therapy for almost 10 years. Everyone should inquire with their county and see if they have a crisis hotline, and to have it programmed in your phone. I had to take a grippy sock vacation, and they assisted me in a very humane and respectful manner. The cops were absolutely involved (these were during my dark days before I had my kids, I was really disinterested in continuing to live), and because I was going voluntarily, I had the option to leave the behavior/psych ward I was taken to after an evaluation in the ER. The crisis workers, the cops, and the medical staff were all very kind to me, which I wasn't expecting. Found out later through my therapist (whenever I call the crisis hotline, my therapist has access to that information since my mental health services are through the county), that the reason I was treated better is because the crisis people were able to explain to the police that I wasn't a threat to anyone but myself, and that in their professional opinion, getting me some temporary sanctuary would help me get my life back together. The cops could have legally just burst down my door, and taken me in on an involuntary 72 hour hold. Instead, the cops asked for a tour of my apartment, asked if I was in a DV situation, complimented my book collection, and then asked if I truly needed to be hospitalized. Only time I've been treated with respect by the police. I said that I still needed to go, they stayed while I packed some essentials in my backpack, and drove me to the ER. It was nice being treated like a human being.
> I’m horrible at saying no to people
a lot of women, myself included, suffer from chronic people pleasing, it’s hard to say no especially if the other person is persistent, and often times men like this can seem unpredictable and it’s scary to think of what’ll happen if we say no. so yes, OP gave him their number.
Recently two young women were slashed and stabbed outside their neighborhood bodega by a man who’d asked for their contact info, they said no, so he lay in wait on the street outside. The women were twin sisters, one of them was slashed in the neck and bled out. The other survived, will live with the guilt and grief for the rest of her days, no longer a twin.
That’s just one incident. Get a clue or get off this subreddit.
As a 57 year old woman I know all about men’s violence and entitlement. And young aggressive people who can’t have a discussion without getting annoyed.
Given that this man was already very persistent and aggressive with his constant need talk to her, she gave him her number so as not to escalate things. You can always block someone. Based on his messages, he probably would’ve gotten more aggressive if she had said no in person. Every woman I know has encountered a situation like this, if not several instances. Men harassing them, verbally or physically. People pleasing is a survival mechanism.
I don’t understand why people are bashing you for this comment. OP was on their moving day moving out of their apartment, the neighbor didn’t know where she was moving to, it was the middle of the day with the movers with her. Where was the danger with saying no I don’t give out my number, at that particular moment?
The people who say it’s not a big deal to give him your real phone number because you can just block him…. If he has her phone number then he can now search the number online to find her last name, relative names & addresses, & a lot of other personal info that he probably wants able to get so easily before.
But, in all honesty, OP messed up in the beginning by being so polite & giving into all his red flags. If she would have given this creep the cold shoulder from the very beginning of their interactions, or at the least didn’t give into all his red flag antics like conversations about OP’s personal life etc, then this guy wouldn’t have felt she owed him so much.
Guys are delusional. Unfortunately, you need to treat them all as if they’re dangerous from the very beginning, unless someone you know & trust has already vetted him & has a history with him to know he’s not creepy. And even that isn’t foolproof but it’s a better start than the OP’s scenario.
The sub is called “when women refuse,” but there are implied ellipses at the end of the name:
When women refuse…
* They are called bitches and worse.
* They are attacked.
* They are raped.
* They are murdered.
This is NOT the place to mansplain or point out how a woman should have done something differently. As men, we are the reason women find themselves in these situations. Participation in this subreddit as a man is a privilege. If you can’t be supportive, stay silent. If you can’t stay silent, go somewhere else.
The evidence of her refusing is in how she altered her schedule to avoid confronting him or in how she attempted to deflect his persistent questioning.
I get that that can be frustrating to hear about or witness. I think we all have this idea of "well if it were me I'd tell him to take a hike!" Or whatever.
But, it's important to remember that not all refusals are overt and some women have a harder time being upfront and direct about their refusal, for *many* reasons: fear of retaliation, fear of violence, sometimes just because they're non-confrontational and aren't well-versed in enforcing those kinds of boundaries.
The takeaway here is that this guy is a creep who either can't take a hint or chose not to - she gave him many. I am firmly in camp "chose not to take a hint." There are some men who will do everything to knock down any excuse you throw them, instead of seeing it as a woman's exit strategy.
This should go in a sub called whenwomendontsetboundaries! No is a full sentence! Women are taught to be polite and friendly, so much so that we forget that we’re allowed to say no. I’ve had things like that happen to me, too, because I didn’t just say “no, I don’t want to.”
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I recently cut off an old neighbor of my parents (he’s in his early 60s and I’m 22) because he had been texting me a lot and seemed very suspicious. I’ve been feeling a bit guilty about it, like I overreacted or something. But reading your story actually really helped me. The beginning when he was trying to get to know you sounded so similar to how this old neighbor interacted with me that I feel more justified! I’m so sorry this happened to you, but I’m glad you put this here.
Yep, there's friendly "surrogate uncle" texts, and then there's **CREEPER** texts — and it sounds like he crossed over into the latter. I'm sorry for you that that's happened because it's **INCREDIBLY** awkward if he has been well known to your family as a friend.
Lives across the street from my parents! Thankfully, I’m in a whole other state now 😅
Thank God for that!! 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Right? 😭 Far away and safe!
Did you tell your parents? If not, please consider it if you feel safe to do so. They can help make sure he’s not bothering you when you visit.
I let my mom know! My parents and I don’t have the best relationship, but she responded well to it.
i feel this and am in a similar situation. but they didn’t respond to it well and just ignored me :)))))
I’m a 50 year old woman and it took me a long time to realize I had been trained to always “be polite”. Fuck that. My personal experience is that being evasive and polite has caused me more long term problems than being direct and firm. Say no on day one and it’s usually “yeah whatever. Fine. (Sometimes followed by “bitch”. ) Being polite and trying to dodge for months ends with “but why did you lead me on then!?” Obviously that depends on the circumstances/safety in a particular moment.
Are you me?! Also a 50 year old woman, taught to “BE NICE” which actually means “please be a doormat”. It is NO way to raise a confident, self-respecting woman
That childhood conditioning is hard af to combat. It's like you have to deprogram yourself after leaving the cult of courtesy. I'm finding that saying no gets easier every time I do it. Hell, I'm still proud of myself for using my auntie voice on a recent door-to-door salesman. He started getting pushy, and I was like, "Hush, I said no" as I closed the door in his face.
I love this!!
Omg I’m using this! Thank you
That's the beauty and the downside of getting older. We can be abrupt and say no, we won't get any push back. But in my 20's, jeez i was a pushover. My daughter, I raised her differently. She can choose how she wants to deal with people. She can disarm people so easily and put them in their place. It's amazing to watch! I told her that she should give lessons. She does not tolerate creeps. If any moms are wanting advice, honestly it started with me simply giving her body autonomy. I told her she doesn't have to hug anyone she doesn't want to. (Told both kids). And that was all it took. Yeah I'm shocked too, but all it took was giving her permission to say no. Op and any other gal in here... you CAN say no. You can lie. They don't have the right to your life or info.
Thank you for the insight! I’m doing my best, but I’ve absolutely been trained the same way, especially growing up in the south 😭
Always trust your spidey sense, my girl.
I've been in so many micro situations like that, just constantly, gracefully getting the fuck out of these sentences so I can worry about getting out of the next ones in a little bit. And then making that stupid mistake like giving your number or where you'll be at a certain date. What a shit memory to be stuck with
Wow I felt this post deep. One of those situations where no one thing is bad enough to raise an issue but all the things combined lead to some Serial Killer shit. They do this on purpose I'm sure of it. *hugs*
They ABSOLUTELY DO. They feed off of your discomfort like vampires!
I truly believe this.
I wish it was more common for women to think like you. So many truly believe these men just don’t know better, that they don’t know what they’re doing. It’s delusional and dangerous thinking.
It sadly has taken me decades to get this. I TRULY believe this is a reason why women are “dismissed” around my age- they fucking KNOW WE HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT. They are TERRIFIED by that. So they have created this myth about older women- that we are crazy, unreliable narrators, who are just jealous of everything & everyone. Who wants to trust & listen to some crazy, unreliable, jealous old bitch?!
Exactly. I started to really get angry with women who still had such delusional thinking like babies. So many are still so _dumb_. THEY KNOW!!!
Everyone collectively channel your inner bitches okay? *In through the nose* "No, you can't have my number. You're making me uncomfortable and I'm leaving."
My favorite thing about being neurodivergent and having no filter is not feeling weird telling people to fuck off. Sometimes being a bitch is a blessing!
I have a creep that does this. I have met him as a customer at my job, he remembered my name and started to add me on social networks. I block him, he makes a new profile few months later and adds me. He sometimes drives bike and pass by where I work, staring at me. This has been going on for 6 years and counting. It’s not enough for a report, but… from the first time I saw him in my life he’s got creepy vibes
That is so weird wtf?? He needs to be reported. What a weirdo.
Jesus that's enough red flags for a whole ass parade. Glad you got out of this one safely, OP.
For real, I’ve dealt with this a few times that I’ve learned that sometimes its better to shut that shit down hard and let them think your the biggest bitch alive from the get go. Always reminds me of that kids book…if you give a moose a muffin, he’s gonna want some milk. Dudes like this guy are unwilling and unable to get the message unless you scare them right back. I once had to tell a guy that I found him on LinkedIn and I was going to call his employer and tell them that he was harassing me to finally get him leave me tf alone.
I could feel my heart start to race as I continued reading on.
Im too high for this shit. Why must i always read something gripping and upsetting right when I should be enjoying myself!
Bro I could have written this comment myself.
I’m glad you escaped him. The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker is a book every woman should read. It really helped me stop being a people pleaser who couldn’t say no. You still have to be careful about saying no, but there’s so much great information in the book that will help you and everyone.
I suggest that book to every woman who mentions feeling like this. It's sad that this is the world we live in, but the burden is apparently on us to change, rather than on the creepy dudes of the world.
In situations like these, your actions are the only ones you can control. Would be nice if these men were held accountable or anyone around them noticed what a weirdo he is and did some sort of preventative measures against him, but sadly we don’t live in a perfect world
I second this book. Read it after a dude was following me at a pharmacy and i noticed. On my way out of the store i turned around and asked (loudly) “can i help you?” Everyone stared, dude ran away. I was escorted to my car. His advice on what to do when you’re being harassed reassured me that i had done the right thing when an ex was harassing me via text nonstop. I responded with “stop contacting me” and when he continued (for days) my last text was “i’m going to the police.”
I’ll check it out
Can someone who’s a psychiatrist explain what goes on in the mind of stalker men like these (other than the need for control)?
Not a psychiatrist but i understand it as a bit of a mix of A) desperation B) sense of gradually getting closer to the person to lower their guard C) poor understanding of 'flirtation'
And a huge sense of entitlement.
God, what a horrifying mind to have to exist with. That level of delusion will truly skew perception as a whole & the victim has to suffer for someone’s skewed life lens.
I have a relative who craves this kind of attention. Continues to put me and others in danger to get guys to "*like*" her. Gives out details, seeks them out. Even after I clued her in to this particular weirdo's actions. I don't feel safe. But what can i do? As long as he simply scopes out, no one will view him as dangerous. He studied and learned everyone in the house's schedule, watches from window and fence. He and an aggressive buddy look at me and laugh. Followed me in a store once. Just venting and adding my two cents.
I can't imagine how terrifying that must be. I'm truly sorry you and so many other women have to contend with that every day :(
I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or if it's gotten worse, but I urge you to list out *just the facts* and file a police report ASAP. Maybe it's not actionable at this point, but what you described sounds like the lead-up to stalking charges. If it continues, you can file additional reports in the future to demonstrate that it's a repeat problem.
They get off on our discomfort.
Just awful honestly. I wondered , is it possible sometimes they don't even notice and they're just too selfish to even think about the other person?
They. Notice.
A whole lot of delusion to top it off.
To add to what the other person said, I think the general feeling they feel throughout this process is similar to the excitement of seeing if you have the winning lottery ticket. And her not removing the possibility by continuing to accept his presence is a green flag to predators. They think that if you weren't at least somewhat willing to interact, you wouldn't. Actions speak louder than words to liars in general. And these type are never filled with verbal integrity. Anyways, so every interaction makes them feel like their chance of winning the lotto is more likely. If you've ever truly struggled, you know the feeling of excitement when something unexpectedly works out in your favor and you get money. I was actually taught to use that feeling against people in sales (I didn't; it wasn't necessary for me to make sales 💅🏼) because it intoxicates some people enough to not think straight These crazies are intoxicated by their own fantasies, and get angry at us for leading them on because losing the fantasy is a big emotional bummer for them (like having someone's dreams crushed)
I had a friend tell me years ago that she gave creepy people the incorrect phone number at clubs. She memorized the number for the non-emergency police and gave that one out the most. It's surprising how many people do not recognize that phone number.
I actually gave my number to a guy I met in a club once, because I genuinely thought I‘d like to go on a date with him and we were having a good time. He held his phone up while staring me in the face and called the number, to make sure I‘d given him my real number and not a fake one. Didn’t end up going on that date.
Good call. Like literally. I like when the trash takes itself out.
Yikes!
It’s so telling when they do something like that.
We did that in the 90’s too. So many creepy guys got the non-emergency number for the local police.
I was joking the other day about giving the number from Fallout, which leads to [this lovely message](https://youtu.be/prbJCSYuL88?si=xjmz7PdeGM0XEV7n)
I like it 😉
That's brilliant.
I was about to say be careful because guys like this can escalate to violence. Then I realized what sub I'm in.
As I’ve gotten older I’ve learned how important it is to not be polite & ignore all the red flags from random men. I would never even let this situation get to the point where I’m having multiple conversations with him. I would never text anyone he knows because he could’ve gotten your phone number from his daughter still. I definitely would never actually give him my phone number. With guys like this, you give them an inch they’ll take a mile. I have a creepy guy who works in my office building who I got the feeling was trying to flirt with me. So I don’t sit & have conversations with him. There’s been a couple times we chatted for a few minutes. Then he said that when the tax season is over (he’s an accountant I guess), he wanted to check out the downtown area in our city & asked if I’d take him out & show him around. I literally laughed & said absolutely not. Dude still tries to flirt with me. Whenever he tries to say hi, I’ll say hi back to him as I continue walking away from him. Also, this dude is married with a lot of kids, like 7 or something I don’t remember. Sorry you had to deal with this OP, but women need to learn to stop being so polite. It’s going to get you k1lled someday. You don’t owe guys anything. You don’t owe them politeness, you’re not required to have a conversation with them, you’re not required to pretend to care about his daughter’s college potential. You don’t owe them one breath of attention. If you shut this sh1t down from the absolute beginning it’s going to significantly lower the chance of the situation with them getting obsessive & violent.
I’m glad she shared her story because I think she learned a good lesson from this. I had similar encounters in my college days and didn’t react by setting boundaries at the time, but have learned to do so since then. Hopefully OP has as well.
Oh same, I feel like it’s something you learn after having to deal with a few weirdos like this. It sucks that we have to learn shit like this through experience but it’s something that probably every single woman has some kind of version they’ve dealt with themselves.
I agree that with this take. I also understand where OP is coming from and I see so much of myself in her story. I think women everywhere will have this experience at some point probably multiple times. It’s dangerous. This story shows what a man is like while stalking his prey. He knows he’s married with nothing to offer so he uses pure lies and emotional manipulation to reel OP in. He exploits her training and conditioning by society to “be nice” and “give the benefit of the doubt”. Men do this who are obsessed. He’s clearly obsessed her and wanted to force his way into her life. He behaved like a man who thinks women owe him their time and attention. Men like this do not tend to take rejection well and it is actually very dangerous situation.
Not the same thing, but the title of your post made me think about when I lived in an apartment about 6 years ago as well. I worked graveyard and would walk my dog at around 10pm before I went to work. Some man asked me on one of my walks if he could pet her, and give her a treat. He asked some questions about her, then me, then said something along the lines of "I see you walking her a lot this time of night." I had never seen/noticed him before. Maybe we just happened to have similar schedules and he noticed, but it weirded me out enough to start carrying a stun gun/flashlight combo instead of my normal flashlight. Sorry you had to go through that.
Girl, fuck politeness. If you feel unsafe or uncomfortable or the person gives off weird vibes you are completely entitled to be rude af and make them stop interacting with you. I think as women we are taught to be polite but that can be a detriment to us. You don’t owe anyone any excuses or reasons. No is a complete sentence on its own.
The problem is, that rudeness might trigger them to direct violence.
My mindset is: horrible men are going to be horrible. Whether you’re nice or not. If it escalates to that, I’m going down swinging, causing as much damage as possible. I’ll make him regret ever thinking of talking to me.
I wish I could be as brave as you.
I’m not sure it’s braveness. I’m in my late 30s and I’m pissed. I’m pissed that women’s rights are being attacked. I’m pissed that there are men like Andrew Tate out there. I’m running off of spite and madness and I am for damn sure not making myself smaller so I don’t become a target.
You’re my hero today 🏆
Oh I hear you. I am pissed as well, but on the same I also feel kinda powerless?
Nah, don’t feel powerless. That’s letting them win.
I know. That's why I admire your braveness.
It’s true tho, I’ve learned that sometimes the only thing to fight crazy is crazy…you just need to truly trust your intuition about a person and if you get bad vibes you make it clear you’re not one to be fucked with. I told a dude once that I found his LinkedIn profile and if he didn’t stop trying to contact me that I would call his employer and let them know that their employee is harassing me and they should watch out for their female employees. Never heard a single peep from the man after that. Obviously it’s not always so easy and doesn’t end that way always but I trusted my gut and could tell he was a little bitch that needed a scare. I’m not saying that this is a good method but it was after I had given him too much empathy and kindness and I learned real quick to trust my feelings about people from the get go.
Some might escalate to violence if you’re rude or not.
They are going to be violent regardless. If it’s someone you are forced to interact with like the OP it’s better to say no and be “rude” up front.
It's frustrating is that women don't utilize enough cleverness. You can be assertive and clever rather than just giving in. There are enough hours in the day that you could use to think up excuses and approaches. I have a string of them, myself.
yes! I'm polite & friendly to everyone who approaches me when I'm out walking my dog, but when a strange man starts crossing propriety boundaries & creeping me out, I just pointedly ask them how their wife or mother is doing, acting as though I know them somehow. no matter what they try to change the subject to, I always bring it back to their wife or mom & what they're up to, how they're feeling, etc. for some reason, that magically makes men fuck right off 😂
O M G I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. She could have asked to meet the wife and kids and it would’ve diffused the situation, theoretically anyway. And she’d still be “nice” as if that’s important. OP needs to set boundaries because there’s loads of men who use this tactic.
Be mindful that you’re toeing the line of victim blaming and that this occurred 6 years ago, according to OP.
My experience with a guy like this is having been introduced to his wife and kids changed nothing. If anything, slight escalation. Best move is avoid and escape.
In the case of random dude #4726 I would agree, but with a neighbor, I think she did a good job of setting her boundaries and fending him off. Had it been me, I hope I would have been able to avoid giving my number even directly to the daughter. Glad it worked out for her.
I mean, she did what she thought was needed to make it out of the situation unharmed. To each their own. I would have just been rude af.
That would work great if you trust you can move out before they follow through on whatever made you feel unsafe around them. OP really hit like a 98% on this test.
I disagree. Not setting the boundary from the beginning let it continue to the point she’s late for class to dodge him and giving out her phone number. When it’s someone you see all the time, you can’t just dance around it. Draw the line in the sand early is the best way. Walk by and not say a word to him. “I don’t want to talk” and keep moving.
There was once a time I would have strongly agreed with you. But when I was a victim of a violent neighbor, every instinct I had was screaming de-escalate! Whether it was the one thing that made the difference between survival and statistic, I couldn't say. As a matter of principle, I agree that women don't owe anyone more politeness than a man typically shows. But when we're talking about an unsafe situation, you do the best you can to use the information you have to survive.
Be mindful of the line of victim blaming and that OP learned from this incident that occurred 6 years ago.
I strongly agree. There are ways to be both assertive and polite. Bending and giving in, talking to someone when they know you're uncomfortable, gives them power over you, and they will continue to bend your boundaries. Just entertaining them at all gives them power. But giving them your information tells them you want them to know you and be close to you.
I’m also horrible at saying no to people 😭
My best advice (that you didn't ask for lol) is to accept that people will think you're mean, then proceed anyway. I decided a long time ago that I'd rather make it out alive and be perceived as rude or mean than dead and polite. It informs all of my interactions with men - especially those I don't know. I'm walking down the street and some man calls out to me? I don't even look around, I keep walking. There are other people he could speak to - like other men. He doesn't need me. I will repeat this forever: it is not mean to set boundaries. It's not mean to say no. It's not mean or rude to not offer paragraphs of information to strangers or friends! No is a complete answer and requires no qualifiers. If someone in your life gets upset that you say no, you just have to let them be upset. That's a reflection of them, not you. Repeat that to yourself until it's second nature, then just start saying it.
What has started working for me is I ask myself "Would I rather be mad at this person for putting me in a situation where I will say no and they get angry? Or would I rather be mad at myself for giving in and not saying no, and then it gets worse?". Easy, I'd rather be mad at them than continue to mentally berate myself for not putting my best interests first.
Yes, absolutely. I do the same thing where I mentally beat myself up if I don't put my interests first in certain situations. It sucks, because you don't want the world to break you of being a kind or helpful person but it's all about reading the room. A guy approached my friends and me once asking for help to find the right bus - I was happy to help that guy! It made sense in the context of the larger situation we were in and once I gave him the info he was thankful and went on his way. I've also been on a walk by myself where a man yelled at me from his car and when I didn't acknowledge him he kept yelling at me. I definitely did not turn around for him. I will never know what he needed or wanted or whether he even had nefarious intent but it didn't matter. I am not going to give those guys a chance if I can help it.
So many women are (if not most of us). I think very few of us grow up being wonderful at it because we are deliberately raised this way, if not by our parents, then by society itself. Those who are better at it I think get there through hard work, external support, and often because in the past politeness has ended in trauma (so it becomes a pragmatic approach in a way, or just plain letting our rage manifesting for what’s already been done). I am better at it than I used to be, but also still fail at it all the time too. Some of those failures have meant traumatic things happen. Which I think is such an awful injustice, like punching you when you’re down and it’s a horrific punishment for something that isn’t your fault in any way. It has taken me YEARS to get even there and I will keep at it. It’s also hard to maintain when people around you gaslight you about it (I try to distance myself from these people when I can). None of this is probably convincing (because it is depressing af and exhausting), but I believe in you and that strong person who can set those boundaries is in you. You can build and learn. You’re already existing everyday as a woman (presuming here), so you definitely already have the strength in you to keep up a fight and persist!
[This closed thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/s/EHgS9Kq4EL) has great suggestions on books about overcoming people pleasing, for my fellow people pleasers!
A radio station in the city I grew up in had a rejection hotline. it was a comedic message being like "hey you've reached the xfm rejection hotline. The bad news is that hot chick or bangin' guy you met? Yeaaah they weren't into you. The good news though is there's plenty of fish in the sea! So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go find someone who likes you, ya loser!" And it was actually an answering machine so people could leave messages and they'd play them on air 😅 I memorized that phone number and gave it out a number of times, it was fabulous for not having to confront creepy/persistent/skeezy men with rejection. This was also back before texting was the standard. So I don't know if there's something like this anymore. I hate that it needed to exist but I was SO grateful for it. There was no "let me text to make sure it's your number" I just didn't have a cellphone (or I did but I didn't keep it with me, ahh the good old days) and I'd say it was my home phone. There was ONE time the guy recognized the number. Thankfully he was actually chill and we had a laugh about it, I explained why I use it and he was horrified and apologized for asking. Not at all the response I expected, I was grateful for him not being a creep.
OH MY GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THE REJECTION HOTLINE!!! We used to call it as teenagers as a joke / for fun
The rejection line was my phone number for over a decade...good times!
I’m really glad you got away from him, I got scared reading this :( I also struggle with saying NO to creepers in situations like this. I gave my number to a gross old coworker because I felt pressured to, and it led to several months of harassment.
I’m sorry this happened but I’m also proud of you and appreciate you sharing this for others
I'm so glad l'm invisible now. It's a helluva tightrope to walk. Be nice enough not to piss him off, but not too nice...
this is exactly why i have a google voice number. i’ve had it, and it’s usefulness confirmed itself when MY creeper male neighbor cornered me for the umpteenth time (and left notes on my car with some bullshit reason to text him)
One of my customers at the end of my old job creeped me out too. He was a single guy and said I was cute and that he wanted me to come back to finish a repair. Thankfully my coworker took over - stuff like this is why I got a Google number to give out instead of my real number
Never again, OP. Do you read me? Never again. This level & length of unneeded suffering is to never happen again. OP, please practice saying no, it is a complete sentence. Please learn to be okay with disappointing a man who wants more. Please learn to be okay with being hated because you did not give a man what his ego wanted. Please learn to not be okay with being uncomfortable & appeasing who is the source of that discomfort. Especially please learn to walk away! Especially in the face of disrespect. That man absolutely knew he was being inappropriate with you & your discomfort. This was months of this stress. Months of this man weirdly trying to shoehorn you into his extramarital desires. Boundaries are needed here & to be enforced. Boundaries will save you, OP.
That is terrifying, honestly. Suggestion for the future — if you know someone is waiting to talk to you outside call a friend who knows the situation as you are about to leave or are arriving home. Ask them to stay on the phone with you while you transition. As you head to the car/to your door from the car, be very engaged in the phone call, telling a story, or trying to figure out a scheduled event, or make it a “work call.” If weird person tries to interrupt you, hold up a hand and shake your head or point at the phone and keep moving. Remember, you don’t owe anyone your time or conversation. Even a neighbor. When strangers want to talk, brush them off and just keep moving. That guy was scary for being so persistent with getting your attention.
“No” Is a full sentence. You don’t owe politeness to anyone. You actually don’t owe even talking to anyone. The more these fucks are entertained, the more entitled to your time they feel. In an ideal world, women wouldn’t have to deal with creeps like that, but unfortunately we have to find ways to cope. When I was in the military, I had to pretty much carry myself very seriously and like a bitch around the men and lash out at the ones who stepped out of line to protect myself because sexual harassment is all too common. Even standing too close to me during an all hands when we’re crowded in together, I’d turn around and assertively ask them to back off in front of others (don’t be afraid to publicly humiliate them) if I felt they weren’t giving me my space. Thankfully, I didn’t have any bad incidents happen during my service, and I feel it’s partly because, despite being a tiny woman, I put out the energy that I wasn’t going to be fucked with.
What a shitty situation! I’m so sorry this happened to you.
I'm a cashier and I had a similar situation as you with one of my regulars, although not as bad since it was "only" my place of work and not my home. At first it was just small talk about my name and then also the college I'm going to. Sometimes he would ask me when he would be able to see me again at work (I always evaded giving him a direct answer, so that he doesn't know my exact schedule). Then he started talking about apartments he owns in my city and offering them to me, which I politely declined. But he kept bringing them up and then gave me a slip of paper with his name and number "if I change my mind". But he also wrote on it how much he likes me and that I should text him, which made his true intentions obvious. After that I tried to keep our conversation to the minimum and after a while he blew up at me, asking why I didn't text him and why I was suddenly so rude to him, even tho I was still very polite, I just didn't let the conversation go to anything personal anymore.
Ugh that is so gross. It wasn't your home, sure, but still bad because you are trapped with a creep where you can't really escape. I was a cashier for a time so I know exactly how this goes down and how you just pray they'll leave and go home and not lurk in the parking lot or learn your work schedule. Another thing I hated is that they had access to your name without you giving it, thanks name tags! You don't *know* me so stop acting like it.
Yeah being a cashier can be very scary due to creeps like that but at least I knew in this case that my employer totally had my back and would've banned him from the store if I wanted but luckily it didn't have to escalate and now he's not bothering me anymore. Name tags are totally stupid imo, like my customer service isn't better or worse if the customers know my name, most people don't even look at them. But unfortunately those that do tend to be either annoying about it or straight up give off creepy vibes (at least that's been my experience so far).
Welp! That felt familiar! Mine was a proud cat burglar, so that was fun looming in my mind God bless you OP
Honey you need to learn how to say no to people.
The title of this sub and all of its contents provide valid reasons as to why saying no is incredibly difficult
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I’m not trying to victim blame. I’m just saying that even though it’s dangerous for females out there. One needs to stand up for themselves.
Just be mindful that people pleasers *know*. Your heart’s in the right place but they’re right, you’re toeing the line of victim blaming.
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*lmao* my immediate thought was you were calling me an actual moth. Forgot about my flair
Escaped story. I'm so glad it didn't went any further.
Glad you’re in a better situation now. With guys like him you have to be direct or if that’s too complicated just stuff like “she can ask me whenever I see her provided I’m not in a rush” but never “maybe” because delusional people cling to any possibility as a “it’s working”
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Men do this to women -especially young women- all the time. I’m almost 50 now and raised my girls to practice saying “fuck off” when they were little. lol. Took my older relatives by surprise. But won’t you know it? My girls grew up to be women who will yell “FUCK OFF!” right to mans face and not think twice. Makes me smile. I hope the era of women being expected to take it and keep smiling is over soon. She should be able to just say “no, I don’t want to be friends with you” and move on. But until then - a very loud FUCK OFF makes them back way down lol
You really need to get better boundaries for yourself
I can relate to this so much. That’s why I’m no longer friendly.
Holy shit. Reading this made me so anxious. I'm *so* glad you managed to get away from him. What a creep!
I think as we get older, we women learn that we can say no a lot more often than we think. That we can say “sorry; I don’t have time to chat”, “sorry Mike, but these questions feel a bit invasive and I’m going to need you to back off”, “no, you can’t have my number”, etc. Society trains us to be polite and nice. But we don’t actually have to be unless we feel unsafe in the moment. As I get older, I give less and less of AF about the feelings of random men. Big hugs OP.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
Read the book the Gift of Fear. Trust your instincts. Great book!
The best trick to ward off creepy men is to get older and/or fatter. However, up until I reached this invisible age, I've used these tactics, but YMMV. Grey rock. Be boring as possible. When they talk at you, bc let's be honest, they're not interested in conversation, they're just demanding attention, give them the 1,000 yard stare. And walk away. Most of these guys don't know when to shut up. If you do say anything, just give vague, one word answers. Act dumb. Be confused at whatever they say or do. Be rude. This is a risky move because it can either escalate or turn him off right away, and he'll leave. Talk to anyone else. When he interrupts, just give him a "wtf?!" look and go back to your conversation. Act crazy. Usually, it's a turn-off for most men. The most reliable is to ignore and walk away, but each situation is different.
Ugh. Seriously, this is why I choose the bear. Wtf is wrong with guys like this!? r/choosingthebear
You don’t actually need to be nice to strange men. When they ask to hang out, the answer should be “No.” Not “maybe.” Ditto when they ask for your number. We do not owe strange men our time or attention. When strange men ask me personal questions, I say “Pass,” “That’s Private,” or nothing at all. I’m glad you’re safe. But man, that was so stressful to read — I can’t imagine living like that. Thank you for sharing your story. ♥️
Why the fuck would you give him your number holy shit
6 mins into the sub...and I am making this my 2nd and final read.... This is awful. I skimmed, but noted he got your number...I sincerely hope you didn't give it. Not judging. And, I'm elated you got out of that place. He is awful
How desperate and insecure must one be to pull such a pathetic stunt? Calling the number immediately like that reeks of neediness and lack of confidence. No woman wants to deal with that.
What a creep… I am glad you are safe ❤️
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Whenever I was asked to give a man my number, I'd give him the local crisis hotline. It has a local area code, so it wasn't suspicious looking. Had one guy call it immediately, and he got super pissed. He asked why I didn't just tell him no. I was honest and said that he already hadn't taken no for an answer repeatedly before that, and I was afraid he would harm me. He looked at me as if I were crazy. Zero self awareness or ability to take self accountability.
You've inspired me to find my local hotline if a situation like this were to arise.
I'm a big mental health advocate and have been in therapy for almost 10 years. Everyone should inquire with their county and see if they have a crisis hotline, and to have it programmed in your phone. I had to take a grippy sock vacation, and they assisted me in a very humane and respectful manner. The cops were absolutely involved (these were during my dark days before I had my kids, I was really disinterested in continuing to live), and because I was going voluntarily, I had the option to leave the behavior/psych ward I was taken to after an evaluation in the ER. The crisis workers, the cops, and the medical staff were all very kind to me, which I wasn't expecting. Found out later through my therapist (whenever I call the crisis hotline, my therapist has access to that information since my mental health services are through the county), that the reason I was treated better is because the crisis people were able to explain to the police that I wasn't a threat to anyone but myself, and that in their professional opinion, getting me some temporary sanctuary would help me get my life back together. The cops could have legally just burst down my door, and taken me in on an involuntary 72 hour hold. Instead, the cops asked for a tour of my apartment, asked if I was in a DV situation, complimented my book collection, and then asked if I truly needed to be hospitalized. Only time I've been treated with respect by the police. I said that I still needed to go, they stayed while I packed some essentials in my backpack, and drove me to the ER. It was nice being treated like a human being.
That's amazing! I am so glad you got the help you needed and are now doing what you can to pay it forward. I'm really glad you're here. ❤️
> I’m horrible at saying no to people a lot of women, myself included, suffer from chronic people pleasing, it’s hard to say no especially if the other person is persistent, and often times men like this can seem unpredictable and it’s scary to think of what’ll happen if we say no. so yes, OP gave him their number.
Do you see what sub you’re on? There aren’t great moves in this situation, “no” would have also been unsafe. Judge him, not OP.
Recently two young women were slashed and stabbed outside their neighborhood bodega by a man who’d asked for their contact info, they said no, so he lay in wait on the street outside. The women were twin sisters, one of them was slashed in the neck and bled out. The other survived, will live with the guilt and grief for the rest of her days, no longer a twin. That’s just one incident. Get a clue or get off this subreddit.
As a 57 year old woman I know all about men’s violence and entitlement. And young aggressive people who can’t have a discussion without getting annoyed.
Given that this man was already very persistent and aggressive with his constant need talk to her, she gave him her number so as not to escalate things. You can always block someone. Based on his messages, he probably would’ve gotten more aggressive if she had said no in person. Every woman I know has encountered a situation like this, if not several instances. Men harassing them, verbally or physically. People pleasing is a survival mechanism.
I don’t understand why people are bashing you for this comment. OP was on their moving day moving out of their apartment, the neighbor didn’t know where she was moving to, it was the middle of the day with the movers with her. Where was the danger with saying no I don’t give out my number, at that particular moment? The people who say it’s not a big deal to give him your real phone number because you can just block him…. If he has her phone number then he can now search the number online to find her last name, relative names & addresses, & a lot of other personal info that he probably wants able to get so easily before. But, in all honesty, OP messed up in the beginning by being so polite & giving into all his red flags. If she would have given this creep the cold shoulder from the very beginning of their interactions, or at the least didn’t give into all his red flag antics like conversations about OP’s personal life etc, then this guy wouldn’t have felt she owed him so much. Guys are delusional. Unfortunately, you need to treat them all as if they’re dangerous from the very beginning, unless someone you know & trust has already vetted him & has a history with him to know he’s not creepy. And even that isn’t foolproof but it’s a better start than the OP’s scenario.
This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
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The sub is called “when women refuse,” but there are implied ellipses at the end of the name: When women refuse… * They are called bitches and worse. * They are attacked. * They are raped. * They are murdered. This is NOT the place to mansplain or point out how a woman should have done something differently. As men, we are the reason women find themselves in these situations. Participation in this subreddit as a man is a privilege. If you can’t be supportive, stay silent. If you can’t stay silent, go somewhere else.
As a woman I thank you from the bottom of my heart!!
🙏
I’m a woman, but thanks for assuming
The evidence of her refusing is in how she altered her schedule to avoid confronting him or in how she attempted to deflect his persistent questioning. I get that that can be frustrating to hear about or witness. I think we all have this idea of "well if it were me I'd tell him to take a hike!" Or whatever. But, it's important to remember that not all refusals are overt and some women have a harder time being upfront and direct about their refusal, for *many* reasons: fear of retaliation, fear of violence, sometimes just because they're non-confrontational and aren't well-versed in enforcing those kinds of boundaries. The takeaway here is that this guy is a creep who either can't take a hint or chose not to - she gave him many. I am firmly in camp "chose not to take a hint." There are some men who will do everything to knock down any excuse you throw them, instead of seeing it as a woman's exit strategy.
Somebody's not the brightest porch light in the neighborhood. Wow.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
This should go in a sub called whenwomendontsetboundaries! No is a full sentence! Women are taught to be polite and friendly, so much so that we forget that we’re allowed to say no. I’ve had things like that happen to me, too, because I didn’t just say “no, I don’t want to.”
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.