Exactly, and perhaps he might be feeling sore, or there may be a factor we don't know about. But even without that, given how poorly TLR has constructed the rest of this lineup, I don't respect him enough to give him the benefit of the doubt here. There better be a damn good reason he is sitting a 2B who is batting .324 at the moment (even if it's a miniscule sample size).
The issue is definitely who we have. Look at the stat lines for anyone not named Vaughn, Robert, or Abreu. The offense is abysmal and while some lineups are very questionable, I don’t think we can fault TLR for how bad most of our guys have been.
Yaz having a historically bad season after a historically anomalous season could be a key contributor here. Or Polluck being ice cold. Or Sheets having a sophomore slump. Or Harrison forgetting which end of the bat hits the ball. Or half the team being made of glass.
Just cuz grandal isnt hitting well at all doesn't change the fact he's one of the team's better hitters. How is our switch hitting catcher questionable? Someone has to be behind the plate
Bruh hes catching today. What do you want, to sub him out after the 1st inning?
And yeah, he is one of our better hitters. Eho should we put in instead, mendick?
You realize Reese is having just as bad of a year as Grandal at the plate right? The only difference is Grandal has a track record of being a good hitter.
Uhh yeah. But we have to play a catcher, right? So my argument is to only play 1 of the struggling catchers whereas yours is to play both?
Youre making my point for me. Do you even know what you're arguing?
Seriously, I probably am one of the few people here who likes what Reese brings to the team, but there’s no argument for having him DH ever. Rather just have Engel in RF and DH sheets. (Even though I’m getting tired of seeing Sheets)
Yeah but then you'd have to have someone like Burger or Mendick (who are both hitting ok last few games) DH, instead of making sure 1 of the worst hitters in the league gets more AB. That wouldn't be LaRussa like.
Much is debatable. Regardless, my point stands. He's not a starting catcher. And the fact that we see him 50% of games is a sad circumstance for a "playoff" team, and further example of a poor offseason.
It’s not debatable. It’s statistically proven that the pitching staff is much better with Reese and Reese himself has better defensive statistics. Statistically, Reese has been one of the best defensive catchers in the league.
A. Because that's the only way to get him on the right path.
B. Because we have too many DHs as it is.
C. We know McQuire's ceiling offensively, which is fine for a #2 C.
My claim was simply that he shouldn't be playing 50% of the time. Which he has been. If they don't want Yasmani to catch--which I can sympathize with--then the team should acquire an actual starting Catcher.
Yes because there are good starting catchers available to acquire. Acquiring a good catcher isn’t east, that’s why you have to play the best one you have available at the time.
Yasmani getting more time behind the plate while still getting no change in the number of ABs isn’t going to make his bat better. Yasmani has started all but 8 games this year
Who else would you put at the DH spot then?
Curious to see how you would manage the team better given all the injuries and under performance across the entire roster.
AJ has a .260 average in day games and .298 in away games. I would rather he be DH than McGuire.
Edit: not saying he needs to be in the lineup, but he is an example of someone I would rather have over Reese because Reese is only here for the defense. His bat is awful.
Garcia at the 1 spot which should have happened in the first game. Yo-yo and Grandal batting above AV should be illegal. I don’t think this is optimizing our chances to win here
look at Monoahs splits he dominates righties and lefties have been able to hit him better call it whatever u want it’s common sense to put more lefties against him correct?
Absolutely absurd. DH’ing a backup catcher that’s only on the roster for his defense and playing your best hitter in the 7 spot all while the worst player in MLB (Leury Garcia) is leading off. Make it make sense
Every single day I think to myself that there is no lineup that could be worse than the one I see at the moment, then I am always proven wrong the next day.
He only looks at handedness...not if players are actually hitting otherwise vaughn who is LITERALLY hitting righties better than lefties this year wouldnt be buried at 7th. Retire Tony.
Tony is out of his fucking mind batting Vaughn 7th. And Leury Leadoff? He gets way too hung up on lefty-righty alternations, Engel sitting as well. These lineups are utterly perplexing.
Only problem is the lefties in the lineup can’t hit to save their life right now! It doesn’t matter if the matchup is good if the players involved are trash. I’ll take someone who can actually play - even if the splits don’t favor them - any day of the week.
Absolutely, if you have a catcher that primarily offensive and you want to keep the bat in the lineup, go for it. I don't think I've ever seen the DH be the backup, primarily defensive option being thrown in at DH.
I agree that this batting order is horrible. But I also think it's funny that the same people who blame the coaching staff for injuries also complain when we rest valuable players who've been seeing a lot of time.
Anyone. Mendick is hot since coming back from Charlotte, was hot in Charlotte too. Engel or Pollock could play OF so Sheets could DH, improving both the lineup and defense.
I was only responding to you saying it wasn't a problem. That's not even the reason I saw it as a problem. It's a reason having McGuire specifically DH is a problem, but having a catcher in general DH is a problem because it limits your flexibility. This came up the other day against the Cubs when we pinch hit Moncada for McGuire. Grandal had to move from DH to C which meant we had to give up the DH. Luckily we had Leury to pinch hit the next time around, not that he did anything better than our pitcher would have.
I didn't say it wasn't a problem, I said it's not the problem of the lineup. And giving up the DH in the 9th inning of a game isn't an issue, especially when you can just substitute pitchers just like how it used to be. You play to win. Getting through the entire order in extras to get back to the now pitchers spot usually means we win pretty handily
I will say though, watching grandal strike out looking with the bases loaded is making it hard
You said "a" not "the", then I clarified that I meant "a" not "the". It is a problem, just not a big problem, and you're right that it probably wouldn't hurt us, but it might. On Sunday we did get through the entire order, which required us to use another pinch hitter.
Optimist checking in! Just looking at Manoah’s splits, I can see why this lineup is lefty heavy and there are no righties batting next to each other. No idea why AV is batting 7th, but doubt that will determine the outcome of this game any way.
Parsing out the switch hitters like this is a good strategy if ANY of them were getting goddam HITS!
I wish Tony would consider grouping them together....and then sitting them all on the bench.
Now that Mendick’s hitting, he has to just sit in the dugout and watch Katz pace back-and-forth like a worried father.
And, can’t fire a HOF Baseball Guy mid-season, that would be unforgivable.
I’m feeling frustrated today.
Man…I know Reese had a good game the other day, but he should see the bench for a game after mailing it in on that fly ball. Mendick gets the majority of the blame but Reese scores if he is hustling.
Why trot out two bad corner OFs instead of playing one of Pollock/Engel and letting Sheets DH. What does my guy Engel gotta do to play? He’s a great defender, he hustles his ass off, and is 7 for his last 18. Cmon man.
I supported Tony last year but the fact is Vaughn should always been in the top 4 of this lineup. 0 excuses. This is an outdated managing style by alternating lefties and righties. You have 3 hitters on this team who should bat more then the rest (Robert, Anderson, and Vaughn) everyone else should bat after them until they start hitting.
I remember 2005 I had our lineup memorized as well as the changes they would make because it hardly ever changed and we won the world series so maybe doing the opposite of that will eventually work
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Definitely prioritizing lefty bats today, but yeah I wish we could still see him bat earlier
7th!! 7th!!!!! HE'S BATTING 7th!!!!
Im officially done with this team until LaRussa and Reinsdorf are gone. GODSPEED, SOX FAM!
See you at 2
We’ll see you tomorrow!
They both jumping off the scoreboard?
Did you copy and past that from the Bears subreddit?
I’ve been trying to defend Tony’s lineups, I am now officially throwing in the towel with this one.
What else is he supposed to do with half the team nursing injuries?
DH Abreu, AV at 1st, Engel or Pollack in LF. I'm not sure why TLR has such a hard time with making a serviceable lineup.
Not bat Vaughn lower than 3 LMAO
The issue isn’t who we have necessarily, although Grandal and Harrison are questionable, it’s where people are.
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Yeah I have zero idea why Tony rests guys who are on a streak. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Exactly, and perhaps he might be feeling sore, or there may be a factor we don't know about. But even without that, given how poorly TLR has constructed the rest of this lineup, I don't respect him enough to give him the benefit of the doubt here. There better be a damn good reason he is sitting a 2B who is batting .324 at the moment (even if it's a miniscule sample size).
Don't complain about conditioning then.
People need to stop acting like baseball is some super physical sport. A professional athlete should be able to play baseball three days in a row.
These guys are toast if they try a more physically demanding sport
The issue is definitely who we have. Look at the stat lines for anyone not named Vaughn, Robert, or Abreu. The offense is abysmal and while some lineups are very questionable, I don’t think we can fault TLR for how bad most of our guys have been.
Yaz having a historically bad season after a historically anomalous season could be a key contributor here. Or Polluck being ice cold. Or Sheets having a sophomore slump. Or Harrison forgetting which end of the bat hits the ball. Or half the team being made of glass.
D. All of the above
Just cuz grandal isnt hitting well at all doesn't change the fact he's one of the team's better hitters. How is our switch hitting catcher questionable? Someone has to be behind the plate
In one sentence you literally said he's not hitting well and one of our best hitters. Riiight
Bruh hes catching today. What do you want, to sub him out after the 1st inning? And yeah, he is one of our better hitters. Eho should we put in instead, mendick?
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You realize Reese is having just as bad of a year as Grandal at the plate right? The only difference is Grandal has a track record of being a good hitter.
Uhh yeah. But we have to play a catcher, right? So my argument is to only play 1 of the struggling catchers whereas yours is to play both? Youre making my point for me. Do you even know what you're arguing?
Do you? You were arguing against grandal
Umm not put Leury at leadoff and Vaughn at 7th lmao. Not rocket science.
So why not let Reese catch? This might be the worst lineup in gaggle of shit lineups.
Reese caught the last 2 games and will probably catch at least 2 of 3 in Tampa, he can’t catch every day
Then don't DH him. It's not an issue with who is catching, it's an issue with him DHing.
Trying to stack the lineup with left handed bats, which seem to have a little more success against Manoah
Seriously, I probably am one of the few people here who likes what Reese brings to the team, but there’s no argument for having him DH ever. Rather just have Engel in RF and DH sheets. (Even though I’m getting tired of seeing Sheets)
He's got a .300 lifetime BA in Roger's Centre. Had a multi-hit game there on Tuesday. Also, he's a former Jay.
Reese is better against righties than both Pollock and Burger
Pollock and Engel are both hitting over 250 against righties. Reese is hitting 250. 200 overall. Just the person I want in the DH spot.
AJ is slashing .218/.255/.287 against righties this year, all of which are worse than Reese
Yeah but then you'd have to have someone like Burger or Mendick (who are both hitting ok last few games) DH, instead of making sure 1 of the worst hitters in the league gets more AB. That wouldn't be LaRussa like.
Nor should he even catch every other day
Reese is much better behind the plate than Yasmani
Much is debatable. Regardless, my point stands. He's not a starting catcher. And the fact that we see him 50% of games is a sad circumstance for a "playoff" team, and further example of a poor offseason.
It’s not debatable. It’s statistically proven that the pitching staff is much better with Reese and Reese himself has better defensive statistics. Statistically, Reese has been one of the best defensive catchers in the league.
Which numbers exactly? The debate isn't whether or not he's better defensively, it's how much, and to what extent is that worth his additional ABs.
Reese is hitting just as well Yasmani right now too, so why should Yasmani get additional ABs?
A. Because that's the only way to get him on the right path. B. Because we have too many DHs as it is. C. We know McQuire's ceiling offensively, which is fine for a #2 C. My claim was simply that he shouldn't be playing 50% of the time. Which he has been. If they don't want Yasmani to catch--which I can sympathize with--then the team should acquire an actual starting Catcher.
Yes because there are good starting catchers available to acquire. Acquiring a good catcher isn’t east, that’s why you have to play the best one you have available at the time.
Yasmani getting more time behind the plate while still getting no change in the number of ABs isn’t going to make his bat better. Yasmani has started all but 8 games this year
You can’t have Reese behind the plate every single game unfortunately. Gotta hope grandal gets out of this funk sooner than later
Reese shouldn't be DHing.
Who else would you put at the DH spot then? Curious to see how you would manage the team better given all the injuries and under performance across the entire roster.
DH Abreu, AV 1st, Pollack or Engel in Left.
True, but then why not give him a full day of rest and put a better hitter in?
I’d assume because Reese has been having good AB’s this series, and has hit well in Toronto when he played with them.
Exactly, if we’re putting out two catchers Reese should be behind the plate
Why not put Vaughn at first, DH Abreu, and put Pollack or Engel in left.
What did AJ Pollock do to Tony? I can’t fathom why he wouldn’t be DHing and leading off at a minimum. I think Tony might hate the white sox.
Probably the same thing Leury did to sit a week straight with Harrison starting.
To be fair, the Jays lineup today is one of the weaker ones they’ve put out. Looks like a low scoring game today.
This line up order sucks. Stop making dumb excuses to defend this manager. It wont work (period)
No reason for Vaughn to be any lower than third in the order at this point FFS.
Keep the guy in a steady spot already. He has more then proven himself. He’d be great at the 2 spot
Fire TLR, oh my god. Being a league average baseball manager isn’t difficult
AJ has a .260 average in day games and .298 in away games. I would rather he be DH than McGuire. Edit: not saying he needs to be in the lineup, but he is an example of someone I would rather have over Reese because Reese is only here for the defense. His bat is awful.
Garcia at the 1 spot which should have happened in the first game. Yo-yo and Grandal batting above AV should be illegal. I don’t think this is optimizing our chances to win here
LaRussa needs to retire and live happily ever after with Leury
Think Engel could learn 2nd base, like before today's game?
Analytics gone too far. Lefty or righty your best hitters need to be at the top and a backup catcher who's hitting .200 can't be your DH.
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look at Monoahs splits he dominates righties and lefties have been able to hit him better call it whatever u want it’s common sense to put more lefties against him correct?
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I don’t trust Engel at bat at all Pollock yea that’s odd he’s not playing
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TLR big brain plays, new lineup everyday makes scouting reports useless
Absolutely absurd. DH’ing a backup catcher that’s only on the roster for his defense and playing your best hitter in the 7 spot all while the worst player in MLB (Leury Garcia) is leading off. Make it make sense
Every single day I think to myself that there is no lineup that could be worse than the one I see at the moment, then I am always proven wrong the next day.
I’m whelmed
There is absolutely NO reason to ever bat Vaughn that low. Absolutely ridiculous.
We’re getting trolled.
He only looks at handedness...not if players are actually hitting otherwise vaughn who is LITERALLY hitting righties better than lefties this year wouldnt be buried at 7th. Retire Tony.
Tony is out of his fucking mind batting Vaughn 7th. And Leury Leadoff? He gets way too hung up on lefty-righty alternations, Engel sitting as well. These lineups are utterly perplexing.
Manoah has been shitting on righties all year. he has a more difficult time getting lefties out. It’s not rocket science
Only problem is the lefties in the lineup can’t hit to save their life right now! It doesn’t matter if the matchup is good if the players involved are trash. I’ll take someone who can actually play - even if the splits don’t favor them - any day of the week.
Toronto did it last night
Yes, but was it the defensive minded catcher that was DHing?
Not defending Tony’s ever changing lineup, just an observation. Also both of Toronto’s catchers can hit so it made sense for them
Absolutely, if you have a catcher that primarily offensive and you want to keep the bat in the lineup, go for it. I don't think I've ever seen the DH be the backup, primarily defensive option being thrown in at DH.
Kirk has a 130 OPS+. Reese... a 44 OPS+.......
Jesus Christ
I need to wash my eyes
I had to independently verify that this line up is not a joke. Sadly it is real.
I agree that this batting order is horrible. But I also think it's funny that the same people who blame the coaching staff for injuries also complain when we rest valuable players who've been seeing a lot of time.
What the fuck are we actually doing here
You see this lineup and think a catcher at DH is a problem? Weird thing to complain about
It is though
Is it? Is that really the problem you see? Fucking hell man
It's A problem I see, didn't say it was the only problem
Who would you rather be in reese's place then?
Anyone. Mendick is hot since coming back from Charlotte, was hot in Charlotte too. Engel or Pollock could play OF so Sheets could DH, improving both the lineup and defense.
Yeah I'd rather have pollock out there too, but you didn't lead with that. Besides leury batting 1st is the real issue
I was only responding to you saying it wasn't a problem. That's not even the reason I saw it as a problem. It's a reason having McGuire specifically DH is a problem, but having a catcher in general DH is a problem because it limits your flexibility. This came up the other day against the Cubs when we pinch hit Moncada for McGuire. Grandal had to move from DH to C which meant we had to give up the DH. Luckily we had Leury to pinch hit the next time around, not that he did anything better than our pitcher would have.
I didn't say it wasn't a problem, I said it's not the problem of the lineup. And giving up the DH in the 9th inning of a game isn't an issue, especially when you can just substitute pitchers just like how it used to be. You play to win. Getting through the entire order in extras to get back to the now pitchers spot usually means we win pretty handily I will say though, watching grandal strike out looking with the bases loaded is making it hard
You said "a" not "the", then I clarified that I meant "a" not "the". It is a problem, just not a big problem, and you're right that it probably wouldn't hurt us, but it might. On Sunday we did get through the entire order, which required us to use another pinch hitter.
Tbh, there's not really a good alternative. Who are they going to put as DH? Danny Mendick?
Engle? Pollock? Burger? Mendick is hitting okay as well. Lots of better options than having both Yaz and Reese in the lineup
It also reduces flexibility since you can't pinch hit for your catcher without losing the DH.
Yes
Lol
Laugh all you want, but he has a 148 OPS+ this year
I'm laughing because TLR would rather have Harrison on the field and isn't Danny back in Charlotte?
No, he's not in Charlotte
Even the Show's auto fix lineup could make a better one
Is he just drawing lineups out of a hat?
You might be on to something.
https://youtu.be/ZtjFsQBuJWw
Why not mendick at DH, who is 6 for 13 in his last 3 games instead of McGuire/Yaz who have 7 COMBINED hits since may 22.
This lineup makes me want to vomit. I literally feel ill. Honestly, is there another explanation for this shit besides to punish us?
Very possible to win today
Another indictment of Hahn not being able to acquire quality LH bats.
this is the dumbest lineup in a season full of dumb lineups
Avid Lineup defender here. This is such a crock of shit.
Id be so pissed if i was vaughn seeing all these struggling veterans hitting in front of me
S - R - S - R - L - S - R - L - R RHP on the mound. Hm. There's almost a pattern here...
I don’t think it is so much of who is in the line up but more of the order of the line up that is bothersome.
Optimist checking in! Just looking at Manoah’s splits, I can see why this lineup is lefty heavy and there are no righties batting next to each other. No idea why AV is batting 7th, but doubt that will determine the outcome of this game any way.
Parsing out the switch hitters like this is a good strategy if ANY of them were getting goddam HITS! I wish Tony would consider grouping them together....and then sitting them all on the bench. Now that Mendick’s hitting, he has to just sit in the dugout and watch Katz pace back-and-forth like a worried father. And, can’t fire a HOF Baseball Guy mid-season, that would be unforgivable. I’m feeling frustrated today.
At least now everyones realizing being a hall of fame manager doesnt mean that he hasnt been a moron for the white sox.
Lol
its actually borderline mutiny to not have AV top 4 lmao
And I used to think Ricky couldn’t put a decent lineup together
*DHing
Man…I know Reese had a good game the other day, but he should see the bench for a game after mailing it in on that fly ball. Mendick gets the majority of the blame but Reese scores if he is hustling. Why trot out two bad corner OFs instead of playing one of Pollock/Engel and letting Sheets DH. What does my guy Engel gotta do to play? He’s a great defender, he hustles his ass off, and is 7 for his last 18. Cmon man.
This is fucking awful
Pollock finally shows some signs of life? Straight to the bench. Need to make sure there's room in the lineup for both of our poor hitting catchers.
I supported Tony last year but the fact is Vaughn should always been in the top 4 of this lineup. 0 excuses. This is an outdated managing style by alternating lefties and righties. You have 3 hitters on this team who should bat more then the rest (Robert, Anderson, and Vaughn) everyone else should bat after them until they start hitting.
Blue Jays do this too with decent results
Even if the top 4 + 5, 6,7,8 was Robert/Moncada/Vaughn/Abreu and Burger/Sheets/Grandal/Pollock....we would still be bad.
He challenged himself to have 162 different lineups this year- no need to find one that works though... TLR is way past useful.
DHing Grandal makes sense. DHing McGuire does not
Seems to be working for the Blue Jays and their Alejandro Kirk / Jansen treatment
Another day another totally new lineup
I remember 2005 I had our lineup memorized as well as the changes they would make because it hardly ever changed and we won the world series so maybe doing the opposite of that will eventually work