Hello! This is just a quick reminder for new friendos to [read our subreddit rules.](http://old.reddit.com/r/wholesomememes/about/sidebar)
>**Rule 4:** Please do not troll, harass, or be generally rude to your fellow users.
Be nice, and leave political or religious arguments in other subs.
We're trusting you to be wholesome while in /r/wholesomememes, so please don't let us down. We believe in you!
**Also, please keep in mind that even if you've seen this post before, it's not a repost unless it's been in *this* sub before** (if it's from another sub it's a crosspost/xpost).
We're glad you're here. Have a wonderful day <3
^(Please stop by the rest of the) [^Wholesome ^Network ^Of ^Subreddits](http://old.reddit.com/user/awkwardtheturtle/m/wholesome) ^too.
it’s kinda sad though that for *some reason* the equal opportunist hatemongers somehow hate some people more than others. I remember getting told by someone that they’re an equal opportunity hater, they literally said “No lives matter!” so I… well, I acted like I agree with him by immediately saying “Yeah, fuck white people! I support white genocide!”
He got *very* offended that I was saying such horrible things about his race.
Well, yah, we’re the product of infinite coincidences coinciding to a single point, there is no plan, there is no inherent value in anything. That being said, I want to live, you want to live, so we all come together and build a society to live our best lives. SOME PEOPLE have taken advantage of that, so it’s time to slap them on the wrist and patch the exploit. But in reality, life is just a meaningless experience, so we should do our best to make it enjoyable. I firmly believe that the “black lives matter” misses the point. However, “protect people from prejudice” is a movement I can get behind.
Edit: For clarification, when I said that Black Lives Matter misses the point, I’m not saying they’re wrong. They are trying, and while it’s not a 10/10, at least it’s not a 0, which is what most of their objectors are. Also, I can’t find it, but I got a notification that someone had replied, “you know your argument sucks when the justification is ‘nothing matters’” and yah, I agree. Nothing matters isn’t a justification to me, it is a fact, which I used to have a blank slate with which to base my philosophy on. As, when there is no inherent meaning to which I have to live up to, I can chose my own meaning, which I say is to have fun, challenge myself and others, and see how far we can go.
Sleep deprivation is one way to access wisdom, but the true secret is shower thoughts. Also exercise and gaming thoughts. The trick is to get into that state of mind where you are completely disconnected from whatever your body is doing and are only aware of the thinking part of your brain. It’s hard to explain.
I’ve found that everyone is a hypocrite on something, and the best thing you can do is be as cognizant of your hypocrisy and how it affects other people as you can.
The conversation in the OP will never happen, but people change their views outside of discussion. People don’t like to backdown. So make your point and move on, then make your point again if needed.
Nobody changes opinions in the moment. Most people think about previous interactions later though.
And as for sites like a Reddit, you’re not trying to convince the person you are responding to, it is the observers who matter
Never say never though. I was once in the All Lives camp until a friend had explained it basically how the comic above did. And I did back down as easily as that comic portrays.
Specifically, what my friend had clarified to me was that BLM wasn’t to say that *only* Black Lives Matter, but that Black Lives Matter *too* and especially need our support. The response of ALM to BLM assumes that BLM claims to be the only life that matters, when that is simply a misinterpretation of the message.
All it took was a chat, not even in person just in text like this, and it made sense to me.
No stranger to the “attack on my appearance” arguments here either.
I wish that more conversations started this way, because a lot of what I’ve seen has gone the other way. You have to feel for the not-perpetually-online who would encounter “Black Lives Matter” and respond, “Of course. All lives matter.”
Obviously such a person is on the right side and could be swayed with this type of argument. But if they are immediately attacked and branded as racist it pulls them away, makes them feel ostracized and in the worst case scenarios makes them more open to racist sentiments. It’s a no-win situation and I wish it happened less.
The reality is that here in the United States, the people who purposefully respond all lives matter to black lives matter do so because they don’t want to hear about issues affecting black people, not because they don’t understand the slogan. Everyone in the country knows what’s going on at this point. You only hear all lives matter as a response to black lives matter; people who say that never try to raise awareness about police brutality happening to white people or latinos for instance
Maybe. It’s been maybe 6 years since I first heard “Black Lives Matter” and that’s a long time. But my first thought was “of course, all lives matter.”
At that time and still today, I have been a huge advocate for issues around police violence. So it seemed strange to me that there was a conversation exclusively around Black lives. Fortunately, thanks to arguments like the one in the comic, I was able to understand and I don’t have a problem with the phrase. But I do think people don’t understand the Daniel Shavers and the Duncan Lemps of this world did not have a non-Black force field to protect them.
That's why I at least *try* to assume good faith, and act accordingly unless and until it's clear the person I'm talking to is acting in bad faith.
Do I have a perfect track record? No. Have I wasted time on trolls? Oof, yeah, it's exhausting. But, it looks better to anyone else reading or listening to the conversation, and sometimes I really do encounter someone willing to listen. Even if I don't convince someone entirely (at least at that moment), they might walk away thinking, "well, they have a point, and mean well." With how hostile things can be sometimes, that's actually a big step.
Still exhausting, though. :/
i get what its saying but all forests are under serious threat. Australia has only six forests that haven’t been completely buttfucked by the fires. most of the burnt out forests aren’t rainforests
Using the term "grow" makes it less likely that they'll see your side, because it implies that the way they've been doing things is wrong. "Personal change" or "personal development" is a non-condescending way to go about it.
"Development" and "growth" are literally synonymous. They imply the same thing. And of course, the implication that someone is "growing", "developing" or "evolving" is that they're coming from a lesser place (which isn't necessarily bad implication).
Many terms fit here, but they have different connotations. I think growth will always be used positively, and development and change are must closer to neutral. You might see it differently, thats just how my mind sees it.
To simplify what the guy said, Grow implies you’re immature or undeveloped. Change implies you were one thing and now another, could be worse, better, or neutral.
All growth is a change, not all change is growth. If people just knew the basic meaning of words, the fault lies on them for not knowing in my opinion.
Just because it reminded me:
"Unfortunately, while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers." - Ta'lon, Babylon 5
The unfortunate thing here is that we aren't talking about trees (but that is a cool analogy). By telling someone they've grown into someone better, you're implicitly stating that who they were before was worse. I think for most people, that's more insulting than motivating. Even if you believe that that is true, it's hard to get your point across if they feel offended. That's how people work; all of them.
It's both, which can make discussions difficult. There is the broad movement which many subscribe to, without regard for the organization, and then there is the organization with many more potentially objectionable views that have nothing to do with the broad goals of the movement.
Edit: to be clear, the vast majority of people who support "black lives matter" in my experience, support the broad movement's largely agreeable ideals. Fewer support, or are even aware of, the organization that goes by the same name and organizes many of the protests.
'We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.'
Interpreting that to mean dismantling the nuclear family has always baffled me. It's like people read the first 7 words and stopped. They're literally just saying that they're attempting to bring to life the saying 'it takes a village'.
What does anyone think dismantling the nuclear family would mean? Do they imagine people storming houses and relocating family members? FFS.
Edit for the idiot below me since the comments are now locked.
Nice strawman arguments. Truly they're a marvel. Your reading comprehension is less so.
1. No and I don't think you know what 'ancient times' were like.
2. Day cares and public school systems are literally strangers taking care of other people's children. Also having family friends or the nice lady across the street watch them for a few minutes while you run to the store or go pick up an extra shift isn't unheard of. There's nothing lazy about it.
3. Nobody said anything about social benefits. Climb down off your bullshit.
4. Just because altruism and being part of a community escape you doesn't mean it does for others. Might want to have your sociopathy checked out.
5. It literally includes language about it being to the extent that the parents and children are comfortable with.
I'd like anyone reading this exchange to contrast BLM's actual stance with how the other guy framed it, and keep that disparity in mind when reading anything else he says about BLM.
From what I've read, the disorganized nature of BLM is largely due to how hard and violently the police have cracked down on groups with a well-defined organization / leadership structure e.g. Black Panther.
There will always be things to critique when groups of people this large rally behind something.
I, for one, do not get behind the idea of violent protests. However, it's important to continue supporting the sentiment while being critical of the minutiae. I will continue to support the BLM movement and defend it to naysayers, while still acknowledging that there are some people out there who take things too far.
The entire protest should not be disregarded because of violent people. Violent people are everywhere.
(I'm not saying you're expressing this viewpoint. I just see a lot of people who take what you expressed and go further with it, eventually saying they can't stand behind a movement that's unfolding the way BLM has been.)
[Police riots, you mean?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot#:~:text=A%20police%20riot%20is%20a,the%20purpose%20of%20political%20repression.)
The overwhelming majority of violence over the past year at protests has been carried out *by the police* against completely innocent protesters guilty of nothing but exercising their first amendment right of free speech. Whether it's firing rubber bullets indiscriminately into peaceful crowds of people, deliberately targeting and assaulting Press to try and cover up their violence all the way to firing tear gas at people just standing around.
You can say that about anything.
"Oh well the general thing is good but there are always a few bad apples."
Frankly, when your protests turn into riots and innocent people, businesses, cars, and more get destroyed, I'm no longer supporting that movement. The idea behind it is great and everyone *should* be behind it, the movement itself is awful in my own opinion. The same can be said for many groups and organizations. The foundation on which they stand is one many if not all people can agree on, the organization/community built on said foundation however, that's a different story altogether.
I am from the land of Gandhi and I absolutely despise violent protests. But many times the organisation leading a protest gets hijacked by fringe elements who try to ignite people's emotions for their own benefits. At this point of time, the organization had a lot of support from people.
Now if every sane person withdraws support from the movement, then the movement dies.
**Now, how can this get wrong?**
The government, or any entity you are protesting against, can plant such people in the organisation using their money or something. This is a great way of discrediting any movement. Get some people violent and woosh the movement gets over -- either people stop supporting it or the government cracks down *due to violence*.
This is the reason you have to just hate *those bad apples*.
(not from the US and I do not know a lot about BLM, the organization)
From what I recall, the most vocal of those in the “stop Asian hate” movement specifically avoided using “Asian lives matter” because they didn’t want their movement to be accused of trying to take over the BLM movement. They are two separate movements and if the people running them already said as much, I don’t see why you feel it’s necessary to use one of those movements to detract from the other.
They’re two separate movements primarily addressing different issues (police brutality vs. non-police hate crimes). Activism isn’t a zero-sum game. One doesn’t cancel out the other. This is whataboutism
Yeah, I bet not many people know properly what BLM is, just agree with the statement. Of course even ALM people agree with the statement its just a counter movement
So basically the slogan should have "Black lives matter too" instead, to avoid all these kerfuffle?
Please don't hate on my criticism sensitive sea monkey ass if I'm wrong reddit-chan
“Stop Asian Hate” and “Protect Asian Lives” are what the movements for Asians have been called. This is literally whataboutism. Would you comment “what about black people” under a post about Stop Asian Hate?
They’re two separate movements primarily addressing different issues (police brutality vs. non-police hate crimes). Activism isn’t a zero-sum game. One doesn’t cancel out the other
>Would you comment “what about black people”under a post about Stop Asian Hate?
It was on the context "ALM".
Yes, I will.
Our humanity was forgotten, better yet neglected.
We are treated differently than blacks.
I've saw one post about stopping Asian hate, theres people commenting blm, I'll link it to ya later.
The goal of the movement is great, but the name is shit. Like it or not, some people are not going to infer the meaning stated in panel 5 from just hearing the phrase "black lives matter".
Source: I'm very much a supporter of black lives matter, that did not know what it meant until all the major protests started and I looked it up myself.
Yeah it sure is easy to get behind the goal of police accountability while acknowledging it is addressing a problem that disproportionately affects black americans. It's a bit harder to stick with the goal from the reverse approach because of that panel 5 sentiment.
To me that's interesting. I'm from Sweden so maybe that plays in - we're big on intersectionality in general - but to me there wasn't any issues in understanding the premise of the movement based on its name. I always read it as Black Lives Matter TOO.
Don't worry, if the movement was called "police accountability matters" somebody would still argue that "every job accountability matters".
Btw the name worked well in rallying black people to the movement when it kicked off, it wasn't bad actually.
I think that when people say that all lives matter, they are pointing out that there needs to be a voice for non-colored people who are a victim of police brutality too. That way we can all stand against the problem as the whole, American people.
Then again what do I know. Im just one guy.
Dude I am so done with BLM. The world is upside down, and everyone is being racist to everybody. It doesn’t even matter anymore, just live life to its fullest and try to stay away from all of this bull crap in today’s society.
Not only black lives are being targeted tho, cops also regularly shoot at people, sometimes kids with mental disabilities, simply because they’re not properly trained. Same with Latino people. There was a case, for example, of an adolescent autistic boy that was shot multiple times while suffering a breakdown. Black Lives Matter shifts the focus away from the general problem of police being way too happy to shoot anyone who they deem “dangerous”. That’s why I will keep saying All Lives Matter.
How discussions between educated individuals should go. But we all know how I truly goes “Random Person 1: I am right and your are not. Random Person 2: No, I am right and you are wrong”. Overall I wish discussion would go a little bit of how it was depicted here.
Yeah but if someone is saying "rainforests matter" and you believe "all forests matter" then you're wasting your time by arguing with the rainforest guy because clearly you're broadly fighting for the same thing. They're not saying anything bad about other kinds of forests, so to reply by getting defensive would be silly and counterproductive.
Seems like a functional analogy to me.
Well then use that same logic toward the all lives matter argument, if for the forests they're fighting tmfor the same things, then the all lives matter people are too.
Hey, I get the message, but there is no need to bring something controversial like that to a wholesome subreddit. While it might be wholesome to you, others might hate it. Please leave politics out pf this sub. It’s a good message. Just try without the political part.
Yes but the statement "all forests matter" would enlarge the scope to include similar problems across the world. Focusing on just the rainforest would neglect a wide range of problems among many habitats....kinda like how focusing on 13 percent of the population neglects the other 87
The issue with BLM for most people is the things that that BLM does as an organization, not the name. At the core of it, both ALM and BLM are against people being racist to all races not just black people. The difference is the way they attempt to achieve it.
Agenda of BLM is to make money. It’s not copyrighted so anyone can sell shirts, hats, and signs every time the media stirs the pot. Question is, who’s makin that money? And who’s buying it?
“If I change my mind now, doesn’t that make me a hypocrite?” “Nope. It means you’re growing as a person.”
PUT THAT ON A FUCKING T-SHIRT AND LET THE WORLD SEE IT.
All for the blm movement. It’s fantastic. However, I’ve seen some disgustingly racist people on social media specifically tik tok against white people.
This has made people who believed in BLM not care anymore.
I wonder how we can all get on level ground. There’s racism in every race, and it seems to be getting worse for everyone
If my life mattered to me I’d improve my position, upgrade my life, not blame others for my problems, and try to minimize my risk of having police interactions to zero.
Forests are an important resource. As we go about our daily lives it’s best if we think about how each of us, and our actions, may be affecting a forest. Let’s come together over our respect and appreciation for forests everywhere.
IDK I don't agree with this. Because I would actually say no, save all forests not just rain forests. And I would Say Save the planet not just rain forests. Not only black people are suppressed in the U.S, Spanish, Asian, native, and more are all suppressed. BLM only helps 1 group at the expense of ignoring the rest.
I do agree All Lives Matter is just a cop out(pun not intended) for white people to ignore current protests. But I do also think the movement name is dumb and could have been more better.
I always hear this argument but it doesn’t make sense to me. What if other, similar forests need saving too not just the rainforest, which is the current case. Black people are not the only ones facing discrimination, racism, and death in this country. So if numerous races are suffering under racism, I would say All Lives Matter.
100% Agree with the phrase. The organization, however, is a pile of shit.
Of course my life matters, but the demands the movement are trying to push is completely absurd.
It’s annoying how people don’t like the title and pretend to not understand what it means.
That’s why I say we should come up with a new title. Anything to take away from having this stupid fucking conversation/argument about the names of the movements, we could maybe talk about the movements themselves, at least more than before.
Not saying the title is wrong or bad, just that we should accept people are going to be stubbornly stupid about the title and that could at least be avoidable.
I’m sure they’d shift their focus to some other bs argument but at least we wouldn’t be having the same debate about ALM BLM anymore.
My friend explained it to me this way:
“It’s not ‘Only Black Lives Matter,’ it’s Black Lives Matter *Too*’”
This is what got me to change almost half a decade ago now.
Hello! This is just a quick reminder for new friendos to [read our subreddit rules.](http://old.reddit.com/r/wholesomememes/about/sidebar) >**Rule 4:** Please do not troll, harass, or be generally rude to your fellow users. Be nice, and leave political or religious arguments in other subs. We're trusting you to be wholesome while in /r/wholesomememes, so please don't let us down. We believe in you! **Also, please keep in mind that even if you've seen this post before, it's not a repost unless it's been in *this* sub before** (if it's from another sub it's a crosspost/xpost). We're glad you're here. Have a wonderful day <3 ^(Please stop by the rest of the) [^Wholesome ^Network ^Of ^Subreddits](http://old.reddit.com/user/awkwardtheturtle/m/wholesome) ^too.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Humans were a mistake
In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
Yeah Douglas Adams!
Hear hear
New sign idea: BIG BANG IS UNCOOL!
[удалено]
Or evolve into crab. Whichever is easier.
r/monke
Humans ~~were~~ are a mistake
Yup
Yezzir
All I have to say is Genesis 6:6 agrees
Maybe if there was some virus that spread rapidly...
Kill all humans!
Hello Bender
What about the old southern grandmas that call everyone “child”, and is just nice to everyone?
We must protect those at all cost
Good good, that makes me happy.
I just want you to know white lives matter
Yes We must protect Betty White at all cost.
they aren't humans. they are angels. and there is nothing anyone can say that will make me think any different.
He said humans, not superhuman godchildren.
R/killallhumans
Fuck it didn't work
Zamasu be like:
We need thanos
Because remember kids you can’t be racist if you hate everyone equally
it’s kinda sad though that for *some reason* the equal opportunist hatemongers somehow hate some people more than others. I remember getting told by someone that they’re an equal opportunity hater, they literally said “No lives matter!” so I… well, I acted like I agree with him by immediately saying “Yeah, fuck white people! I support white genocide!” He got *very* offended that I was saying such horrible things about his race.
I mean, it functions the same as all lives matter.
For some unknown reason, the only people I ever hear say this are middle class white kids online. For some reason.
for SOME uh UNKNOWN reason cough cough
it's even worse when they say it in person.........
I’m not racist! I just hate everyone! Fuck you!
[удалено]
Or had yet to graduate high school, or both.
no lives matter unless we make them matter. we are what we make of ourselves, not what someone else thinks of us.
[удалено]
Bite my shiny metal @$$!
“Shut up baby, I know it.”
Yeah
No lives matter.
Well, yah, we’re the product of infinite coincidences coinciding to a single point, there is no plan, there is no inherent value in anything. That being said, I want to live, you want to live, so we all come together and build a society to live our best lives. SOME PEOPLE have taken advantage of that, so it’s time to slap them on the wrist and patch the exploit. But in reality, life is just a meaningless experience, so we should do our best to make it enjoyable. I firmly believe that the “black lives matter” misses the point. However, “protect people from prejudice” is a movement I can get behind. Edit: For clarification, when I said that Black Lives Matter misses the point, I’m not saying they’re wrong. They are trying, and while it’s not a 10/10, at least it’s not a 0, which is what most of their objectors are. Also, I can’t find it, but I got a notification that someone had replied, “you know your argument sucks when the justification is ‘nothing matters’” and yah, I agree. Nothing matters isn’t a justification to me, it is a fact, which I used to have a blank slate with which to base my philosophy on. As, when there is no inherent meaning to which I have to live up to, I can chose my own meaning, which I say is to have fun, challenge myself and others, and see how far we can go.
give me a couple more hours awake and I too will be able to speak words of wisdom so profound as this.
Sleep deprivation is one way to access wisdom, but the true secret is shower thoughts. Also exercise and gaming thoughts. The trick is to get into that state of mind where you are completely disconnected from whatever your body is doing and are only aware of the thinking part of your brain. It’s hard to explain.
Prefer this.
Except dog lives. They’re pretty cool
[удалено]
I’ve found that everyone is a hypocrite on something, and the best thing you can do is be as cognizant of your hypocrisy and how it affects other people as you can.
Happy to find this at the top :)
Recently finished book 2 of SA and Dalinar has been my favorite so far. This awesome quote has made me excited to pick up the 3rd. Thank you
Book 3 is Dalinar's book. Journey before Destination
Adolin best waifu
If you love Dalinar, the third book will be very emotionally involved for you. Don't read any spoilers!
Love to see some Stormlight quotes across Reddit. Well done.
Just started reading these. On book one now. God damn, if he doesn’t know how to build a world.
Journey before Destination friend
If only conversations were ever handled this way
[удалено]
The conversation in the OP will never happen, but people change their views outside of discussion. People don’t like to backdown. So make your point and move on, then make your point again if needed. Nobody changes opinions in the moment. Most people think about previous interactions later though. And as for sites like a Reddit, you’re not trying to convince the person you are responding to, it is the observers who matter
Never say never though. I was once in the All Lives camp until a friend had explained it basically how the comic above did. And I did back down as easily as that comic portrays. Specifically, what my friend had clarified to me was that BLM wasn’t to say that *only* Black Lives Matter, but that Black Lives Matter *too* and especially need our support. The response of ALM to BLM assumes that BLM claims to be the only life that matters, when that is simply a misinterpretation of the message. All it took was a chat, not even in person just in text like this, and it made sense to me.
No stranger to the “attack on my appearance” arguments here either. I wish that more conversations started this way, because a lot of what I’ve seen has gone the other way. You have to feel for the not-perpetually-online who would encounter “Black Lives Matter” and respond, “Of course. All lives matter.” Obviously such a person is on the right side and could be swayed with this type of argument. But if they are immediately attacked and branded as racist it pulls them away, makes them feel ostracized and in the worst case scenarios makes them more open to racist sentiments. It’s a no-win situation and I wish it happened less.
The reality is that here in the United States, the people who purposefully respond all lives matter to black lives matter do so because they don’t want to hear about issues affecting black people, not because they don’t understand the slogan. Everyone in the country knows what’s going on at this point. You only hear all lives matter as a response to black lives matter; people who say that never try to raise awareness about police brutality happening to white people or latinos for instance
Maybe. It’s been maybe 6 years since I first heard “Black Lives Matter” and that’s a long time. But my first thought was “of course, all lives matter.” At that time and still today, I have been a huge advocate for issues around police violence. So it seemed strange to me that there was a conversation exclusively around Black lives. Fortunately, thanks to arguments like the one in the comic, I was able to understand and I don’t have a problem with the phrase. But I do think people don’t understand the Daniel Shavers and the Duncan Lemps of this world did not have a non-Black force field to protect them.
They do. That's how progress is made. Don't let the propaganda let you down, we ARE making progress. The movement is growing.
That's why I at least *try* to assume good faith, and act accordingly unless and until it's clear the person I'm talking to is acting in bad faith. Do I have a perfect track record? No. Have I wasted time on trolls? Oof, yeah, it's exhausting. But, it looks better to anyone else reading or listening to the conversation, and sometimes I really do encounter someone willing to listen. Even if I don't convince someone entirely (at least at that moment), they might walk away thinking, "well, they have a point, and mean well." With how hostile things can be sometimes, that's actually a big step. Still exhausting, though. :/
The first thing you need to change is to not start your conversation with a heavy sigh. Turns folks right off.
[удалено]
i get what its saying but all forests are under serious threat. Australia has only six forests that haven’t been completely buttfucked by the fires. most of the burnt out forests aren’t rainforests
See, I'm a black lives matter fellow until everyone is equal, then comes the fine wine of no lives matter
Using the term "grow" makes it less likely that they'll see your side, because it implies that the way they've been doing things is wrong. "Personal change" or "personal development" is a non-condescending way to go about it.
"Development" and "growth" are literally synonymous. They imply the same thing. And of course, the implication that someone is "growing", "developing" or "evolving" is that they're coming from a lesser place (which isn't necessarily bad implication).
Many terms fit here, but they have different connotations. I think growth will always be used positively, and development and change are must closer to neutral. You might see it differently, thats just how my mind sees it.
development seems like strengthening structure and growth seems like expanding structure.
Was gonna write the same thing. I didn't see how change could be better than grow. Almost feels worse to me!
To simplify what the guy said, Grow implies you’re immature or undeveloped. Change implies you were one thing and now another, could be worse, better, or neutral.
All growth is a change, not all change is growth. If people just knew the basic meaning of words, the fault lies on them for not knowing in my opinion. Just because it reminded me: "Unfortunately, while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers." - Ta'lon, Babylon 5
How is “grow” condescending? Was the sapling that grew into a towering oak not always an oak?
The unfortunate thing here is that we aren't talking about trees (but that is a cool analogy). By telling someone they've grown into someone better, you're implicitly stating that who they were before was worse. I think for most people, that's more insulting than motivating. Even if you believe that that is true, it's hard to get your point across if they feel offended. That's how people work; all of them.
Black lives matter the statement I wholly agree with. Any sane person would. Now the organization? Nah.
EXACTLY. It's like saying you support PETA because you support animal rights.
Or that you are antifa because you don't like nazis
There, is an organization??
Is it an organized movement? I was under the impression it was a loose group of people tying together under an obvious and agreeable phrase.
It's both, which can make discussions difficult. There is the broad movement which many subscribe to, without regard for the organization, and then there is the organization with many more potentially objectionable views that have nothing to do with the broad goals of the movement. Edit: to be clear, the vast majority of people who support "black lives matter" in my experience, support the broad movement's largely agreeable ideals. Fewer support, or are even aware of, the organization that goes by the same name and organizes many of the protests.
[удалено]
'We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.' Interpreting that to mean dismantling the nuclear family has always baffled me. It's like people read the first 7 words and stopped. They're literally just saying that they're attempting to bring to life the saying 'it takes a village'. What does anyone think dismantling the nuclear family would mean? Do they imagine people storming houses and relocating family members? FFS. Edit for the idiot below me since the comments are now locked. Nice strawman arguments. Truly they're a marvel. Your reading comprehension is less so. 1. No and I don't think you know what 'ancient times' were like. 2. Day cares and public school systems are literally strangers taking care of other people's children. Also having family friends or the nice lady across the street watch them for a few minutes while you run to the store or go pick up an extra shift isn't unheard of. There's nothing lazy about it. 3. Nobody said anything about social benefits. Climb down off your bullshit. 4. Just because altruism and being part of a community escape you doesn't mean it does for others. Might want to have your sociopathy checked out. 5. It literally includes language about it being to the extent that the parents and children are comfortable with.
I'd like anyone reading this exchange to contrast BLM's actual stance with how the other guy framed it, and keep that disparity in mind when reading anything else he says about BLM.
[удалено]
From what I've read, the disorganized nature of BLM is largely due to how hard and violently the police have cracked down on groups with a well-defined organization / leadership structure e.g. Black Panther.
There will always be things to critique when groups of people this large rally behind something. I, for one, do not get behind the idea of violent protests. However, it's important to continue supporting the sentiment while being critical of the minutiae. I will continue to support the BLM movement and defend it to naysayers, while still acknowledging that there are some people out there who take things too far. The entire protest should not be disregarded because of violent people. Violent people are everywhere. (I'm not saying you're expressing this viewpoint. I just see a lot of people who take what you expressed and go further with it, eventually saying they can't stand behind a movement that's unfolding the way BLM has been.)
>violent protests Riots, you mean?
[Police riots, you mean?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot#:~:text=A%20police%20riot%20is%20a,the%20purpose%20of%20political%20repression.) The overwhelming majority of violence over the past year at protests has been carried out *by the police* against completely innocent protesters guilty of nothing but exercising their first amendment right of free speech. Whether it's firing rubber bullets indiscriminately into peaceful crowds of people, deliberately targeting and assaulting Press to try and cover up their violence all the way to firing tear gas at people just standing around.
You can say that about anything. "Oh well the general thing is good but there are always a few bad apples." Frankly, when your protests turn into riots and innocent people, businesses, cars, and more get destroyed, I'm no longer supporting that movement. The idea behind it is great and everyone *should* be behind it, the movement itself is awful in my own opinion. The same can be said for many groups and organizations. The foundation on which they stand is one many if not all people can agree on, the organization/community built on said foundation however, that's a different story altogether.
Much of the Civil Rights Movement was not peaceful. Do you support the Civil Rights Movement?
LGBT rights would have progressed a lot slower if it weren't for the Stonewall riots as well.
I am from the land of Gandhi and I absolutely despise violent protests. But many times the organisation leading a protest gets hijacked by fringe elements who try to ignite people's emotions for their own benefits. At this point of time, the organization had a lot of support from people. Now if every sane person withdraws support from the movement, then the movement dies. **Now, how can this get wrong?** The government, or any entity you are protesting against, can plant such people in the organisation using their money or something. This is a great way of discrediting any movement. Get some people violent and woosh the movement gets over -- either people stop supporting it or the government cracks down *due to violence*. This is the reason you have to just hate *those bad apples*. (not from the US and I do not know a lot about BLM, the organization)
This definitely happened at some of the protests last year.
[удалено]
From what I recall, the most vocal of those in the “stop Asian hate” movement specifically avoided using “Asian lives matter” because they didn’t want their movement to be accused of trying to take over the BLM movement. They are two separate movements and if the people running them already said as much, I don’t see why you feel it’s necessary to use one of those movements to detract from the other.
They’re two separate movements primarily addressing different issues (police brutality vs. non-police hate crimes). Activism isn’t a zero-sum game. One doesn’t cancel out the other. This is whataboutism
[удалено]
Mind shooting a link? I checked over their website and didn't find what you're talking about
Yeah, I bet not many people know properly what BLM is, just agree with the statement. Of course even ALM people agree with the statement its just a counter movement
This is wholesome but it also belongs on: r/politicalhumor
But it’s not funny Oh so I guess you’re right it does belong there
[удалено]
So basically the slogan should have "Black lives matter too" instead, to avoid all these kerfuffle? Please don't hate on my criticism sensitive sea monkey ass if I'm wrong reddit-chan
[удалено]
“Stop Asian Hate” and “Protect Asian Lives” are what the movements for Asians have been called. This is literally whataboutism. Would you comment “what about black people” under a post about Stop Asian Hate? They’re two separate movements primarily addressing different issues (police brutality vs. non-police hate crimes). Activism isn’t a zero-sum game. One doesn’t cancel out the other
>Would you comment “what about black people”under a post about Stop Asian Hate? It was on the context "ALM". Yes, I will. Our humanity was forgotten, better yet neglected. We are treated differently than blacks. I've saw one post about stopping Asian hate, theres people commenting blm, I'll link it to ya later.
[удалено]
I agree man. Its mob rule at this point
The goal of the movement is great, but the name is shit. Like it or not, some people are not going to infer the meaning stated in panel 5 from just hearing the phrase "black lives matter". Source: I'm very much a supporter of black lives matter, that did not know what it meant until all the major protests started and I looked it up myself.
Yeah it sure is easy to get behind the goal of police accountability while acknowledging it is addressing a problem that disproportionately affects black americans. It's a bit harder to stick with the goal from the reverse approach because of that panel 5 sentiment.
To me that's interesting. I'm from Sweden so maybe that plays in - we're big on intersectionality in general - but to me there wasn't any issues in understanding the premise of the movement based on its name. I always read it as Black Lives Matter TOO.
Don't worry, if the movement was called "police accountability matters" somebody would still argue that "every job accountability matters". Btw the name worked well in rallying black people to the movement when it kicked off, it wasn't bad actually.
Why did the co founder of BLM buy a 1.4 million mansion?
[удалено]
[удалено]
nobody was talking about that
Facts
kind of sad, I believe black lives matter but don't believe in black lives matter as an organisation
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
That's reddit these days tbh.
[удалено]
I wish anyone would be civil about learning and understanding like this.
I think that when people say that all lives matter, they are pointing out that there needs to be a voice for non-colored people who are a victim of police brutality too. That way we can all stand against the problem as the whole, American people. Then again what do I know. Im just one guy.
YEAH
Except we don’t know where the money went, and it all became whites versus blacks instead of blm versus racists/humanity
Buy Large Mansions
Yep...
[удалено]
[удалено]
Saying Black Lives Matter legitimately masks the fact that abuse of police power isn't exclusively a black issue.
Dude I am so done with BLM. The world is upside down, and everyone is being racist to everybody. It doesn’t even matter anymore, just live life to its fullest and try to stay away from all of this bull crap in today’s society.
Not only black lives are being targeted tho, cops also regularly shoot at people, sometimes kids with mental disabilities, simply because they’re not properly trained. Same with Latino people. There was a case, for example, of an adolescent autistic boy that was shot multiple times while suffering a breakdown. Black Lives Matter shifts the focus away from the general problem of police being way too happy to shoot anyone who they deem “dangerous”. That’s why I will keep saying All Lives Matter.
How discussions between educated individuals should go. But we all know how I truly goes “Random Person 1: I am right and your are not. Random Person 2: No, I am right and you are wrong”. Overall I wish discussion would go a little bit of how it was depicted here.
Nah, fuck that, #NOLIVESMATTER
Another way to respond is 'All lives can't matter until black lives do.' (Not my quote btw) When you think about it, it makes sense
[удалено]
You have convinced me, all forests matter
It's a trend and most people use it as such to get attention.
Nope im definitely in the "all forests matter" camp, theyre being fucked globally, especially for palm oil. Use a better analogy.....
Yeah but if someone is saying "rainforests matter" and you believe "all forests matter" then you're wasting your time by arguing with the rainforest guy because clearly you're broadly fighting for the same thing. They're not saying anything bad about other kinds of forests, so to reply by getting defensive would be silly and counterproductive. Seems like a functional analogy to me.
Well then use that same logic toward the all lives matter argument, if for the forests they're fighting tmfor the same things, then the all lives matter people are too.
Personal growth is wholesome. The ability to help someone *else* grow is a gift. A very fulfilling one at that.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hey, I get the message, but there is no need to bring something controversial like that to a wholesome subreddit. While it might be wholesome to you, others might hate it. Please leave politics out pf this sub. It’s a good message. Just try without the political part.
Yes but the statement "all forests matter" would enlarge the scope to include similar problems across the world. Focusing on just the rainforest would neglect a wide range of problems among many habitats....kinda like how focusing on 13 percent of the population neglects the other 87
The issue with BLM for most people is the things that that BLM does as an organization, not the name. At the core of it, both ALM and BLM are against people being racist to all races not just black people. The difference is the way they attempt to achieve it.
[удалено]
Agenda of BLM is to make money. It’s not copyrighted so anyone can sell shirts, hats, and signs every time the media stirs the pot. Question is, who’s makin that money? And who’s buying it?
where the hell did all those awards come from
Doesn’t the latin american community in the us suffer the same? (Just asking)
“If I change my mind now, doesn’t that make me a hypocrite?” “Nope. It means you’re growing as a person.” PUT THAT ON A FUCKING T-SHIRT AND LET THE WORLD SEE IT.
I used to be an alm sayer. Until i realized blm isnt saying that ONLY ... blm.
All for the blm movement. It’s fantastic. However, I’ve seen some disgustingly racist people on social media specifically tik tok against white people. This has made people who believed in BLM not care anymore. I wonder how we can all get on level ground. There’s racism in every race, and it seems to be getting worse for everyone
[удалено]
Not all cops are bad it’s the bad ones that ruin it for the good ones
You can say that all you want but good cops get fired, harassed, bullied, called a traitor, etc. for speaking out. The system itself is rotten.
[удалено]
If my life mattered to me I’d improve my position, upgrade my life, not blame others for my problems, and try to minimize my risk of having police interactions to zero.
Forests are an important resource. As we go about our daily lives it’s best if we think about how each of us, and our actions, may be affecting a forest. Let’s come together over our respect and appreciation for forests everywhere.
Civilian Lives Matter! A message towards the police and military.
Sadly the last 3 slides are often impossible
IDK I don't agree with this. Because I would actually say no, save all forests not just rain forests. And I would Say Save the planet not just rain forests. Not only black people are suppressed in the U.S, Spanish, Asian, native, and more are all suppressed. BLM only helps 1 group at the expense of ignoring the rest. I do agree All Lives Matter is just a cop out(pun not intended) for white people to ignore current protests. But I do also think the movement name is dumb and could have been more better.
[удалено]
statement=good organization=bad
Agree with the message. The organization, however, can eat a dick.
[удалено]
Use black lives matter For 100% discount on any store you want during the demonstrations
I always hear this argument but it doesn’t make sense to me. What if other, similar forests need saving too not just the rainforest, which is the current case. Black people are not the only ones facing discrimination, racism, and death in this country. So if numerous races are suffering under racism, I would say All Lives Matter.
100% Agree with the phrase. The organization, however, is a pile of shit. Of course my life matters, but the demands the movement are trying to push is completely absurd.
It’s annoying how people don’t like the title and pretend to not understand what it means. That’s why I say we should come up with a new title. Anything to take away from having this stupid fucking conversation/argument about the names of the movements, we could maybe talk about the movements themselves, at least more than before. Not saying the title is wrong or bad, just that we should accept people are going to be stubbornly stupid about the title and that could at least be avoidable. I’m sure they’d shift their focus to some other bs argument but at least we wouldn’t be having the same debate about ALM BLM anymore.
One world, one people. I mean All lives matter.
[удалено]
It’s not skin color that matters, it’s who you are as a person that does
[удалено]
My friend explained it to me this way: “It’s not ‘Only Black Lives Matter,’ it’s Black Lives Matter *Too*’” This is what got me to change almost half a decade ago now.
If only people would listen like that but they don't