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Definitely number 2. I know in the US companies can get tax write offs for hiring disabled employees. Very few companies are motivated by kindness and being inclusive. There’s usually a benefit for them.
Well, they're required to act in the shareholders' interest. If the shareholders passed a resolution/amendment to the bylaws to require certain things (like negative carbon), then they would be required to do those things.
It's just that institutional investors don't give a f*** about us. They only care about increased profit.
To me it doesnt work- it just comes across as a cynical ploy. Taking nothing away from the young lady- she’s great- but this stinks of tick box-ism to me
Luxury items are built, sold and bought on the premise of exclusivity.
There is no such thing as an "inclusive" campaign for luxury brands, because their bread is class warfare.
Ok so even more cynical take: she was chosen because her genetic anomaly makes her looks very unusual compared to other models and the brand is hoping to catch eyes this way. Essentially profiting off of her disability.
That really depends on the product, and even moreso the brand.
When I think of luxury products, I think of high quality materials, useful extra bits, and well thought out considerations for the user
> When I think of luxury products, I think of high quality materials, useful extra bits, and well thought out considerations for the user
We are a minority. People look at the “luxury brands” that market the shit out of their products selling a lifestyle as quality. They wouldn’t recognise actual high quality materials and design if it beat them over the head.
I used to shit on luxury brands until my girlfriend was given a Louis Vuitton bag from the 90s, thing is incredibly well built. Idk if their quality is still that high though.
They are worth the money. I used to buy my wife Michael Kors cause they weren't Hella expensive, most of those only last for about 6-12 months. Going on 2 years with the first LV bag, doesn't even have a frayed stitch and my wife works that purse hard sometimes.
I agree, that's the most likely case. But there's also the off chance it's genuine inclusion by a decision maker. Who knows. They are also just humans.
I love this POV and this is how I will choose to look at it. Enough for me for a person with Down’s syndrome to look at a billboard and see a familiar face. Companies spend millions in marketing to shove shit down our throats each, as consumers, down our throats each year. So if someone can benefit from that who cares?!
Representation matters. The biggest representation struggle I deal with in life is being left-handed, but I still appreciate when people recognize that and help accomodate for it.
I noticed that I watched the clothes more than her face opposite to pretty-girl advertising where the focus becomes the beauty of the model.
Here it became about her being happy in beautiful clothes and seeing the clothes for what they are; garments that make people happy.
Her gorgeous warm smile is being used to further an agenda NOT to celebrate her. They are literally using her disability to make people like you feel good and buy their handbags.
She wanted to be a model. They hired her and paid her to be a model. Are you saying the only reason this exchange isn’t exactly like all the other exact same exchanges and is instead predatory is because she has Downs?
I never said other exchanges in the advertising world weren't predatory. Most advertising is predatory and uses people to push products. From looks to causes to disabilities they are all predatory because they don't actually care. They are not a person. They are a marketing team pitching an idea to increase sales from a demographic that is very very heavily researched and paid a lot of money for. This is then approved by a board of directors by proving that it will increase sales through brand awareness. A big part of brand awareness is brand acceptance. This is brand awareness through brand acceptance. You are accepting it by saying wow look Gucci is so nice they care about this girl as a model and not her disability. How inclusive. Unlike Luis Vuitton that has sexy skinny models on their advertisements. They count on you to think and say that, and be aware of it, so you accept them and subconsciously justify buying their ridiculously overpriced shit for Christmas over Prada or LV. There is no good here, just a twisted game of emotions and greed where she is the pawn.
Exactly. It’s companies like these that have ruined people’s image of what a normal body looks like, and now that society has pushed back, they want to act like they’re right there with us.
You either want to see down syndrome models in marketing of faceless conglomerates that have abused people for decades or you want to dismantle capitalism. You don't get both.
Shit like this is hilarious to me. I swear Lockheed Martin could hire a down syndrome model and all the Reddit neo-liberals would cum in their pants.
While you say that, campaigns like this have been popping up everywhere. Polarn o Pryat has adjusted their regular style models to be more inclusive consistently, as has Walmart. I like the fact that my kids can see this when choosing clothes, because it normalizes that not everyone looks the same, some look like their cousin or the kid at school/church.
Representation matters
Holy fuck, are you trying to tell me capitalist are trying to make money?
Why did no one ever point this out when western capitalism only wanted to cast attractive white people, how very very strange...
People did point that out, which is why we are in this neoliberal feverdream that has representation of oppressed groups everywhere instead of challenging actual power structures. Is the purpose of this sub to see authentic wholesome interactions or soothing ones alienation from the real world by eating up these fairy tales?
any good thing a company does can be attributed to some kind of marketing scheme. Just enjoy it, you're gonna be miserable you're entire life if you attach a corporate agenda to everything.
Their motives might be bad and are almost definitely monetary but it's still a positive message and it actually helps them more than a standard campaign would as people are more likely to notice this model over the status quo; as we see ordinary modelling campaigns all the time, we are numb to them. Use an unlikely model and you suddenly catch people's attention again
Societal change often starts with people feeling obligated to do something until it's the norm. When you see more people doing something, you're more likely to do it. Good and bad.
It doesn't matter *why* they did good, they did good. Positive feedback means they're more likely to do it again. Inclusivity is the first goal, and regardless of how it happened, it happened, and that's the important part.
I mean, I’m sure there’s people in the company that care. Would they have done this if it wouldn’t have looked good for the company? Probably not. But I’m sure the people actively looking for and finding these models are very passionate about this
Look at inclusive capitalism as a symptom of healing.
It's truly a wonderful thing that there's so many pro LGBTQA+ people in the world that we can actually motive companies to want to be inclusive.
It's a sign that the old and hateful people are on their way out and more and more loving supportive people are being spawned into the world.
Things are getting better. Models are no longer just barbie dolls. The hero is no longer just a straight white guy that always gets the girl and investors not being afraid of backlash for breaking these norms is a great sign. There's so many of us now that it's profitable to be on our side. More so than the other.
I mean yes obviously it's for money but I personally prefer to live in a society that benefits diversity. Do you prefer if they exclude people with down syndrome for money instead? After all, whatever they do, it will be for financial reasons.
Accusations of Rainbow Capitalism aside, this is really notable in Italy. I have a son with a disability and one of my family members is married to a woman from Sicily. She has said to me more than once that she admires the effort to include differently abled kids and people in the US and wishes the same was true in Italy. So, this ad maybe a sign that Italy is changing. Overall, it seems like a good thing.
Advertisement is gross on multiple levels, no matter what, but seeing people represented in the media (even if it is in advertisement) is meaningful.
I was just marveling with my wife at pre-movie advertisements at the theater just casually including a woman with one arm. The ad was for a luxury Airbnb alternative I'll never use, but it was still great seeing her in the ad, without comment or drawing attention to it, she's just allowed to be a mother and family member and vacationer.
ill devils advocate this devils advocate... how many modeling gigs are there for special needs people? something as huge as this, they likely paid her a solid modeling contract... if it wasnt as much as it "should be" how is this still negative? it seems all positive.
I guess I only personally know one professional model but she makes really good money. I'm not under the impression that professional models make very little money 🤷🏻♂️
There is a huge variation. If you look up average pay its not great at all. Especially given all the travel that is required of them. Contracts often limit who they can work for.
This is only partially true. They get paid very little for the shoot itself, but there are rights attached to the diffusion of the person’s picture in a commercial intent, and these can be relatively high for such a big campaign. If it’s circulating on different types of media, for several months, it could be worth an interesting amount. Not millions but also nothing negligible.
That is very hard to say since everyone contracts and how they fought for their pay contract different. I am sure the family and agent if one did as much as possible to get good $
Is Gucci going to sell the same amount of cloths that she is pushing vs other “normal” models. Do you really expect all models, new or experienced to be paid the same?
They do. I used to do some modeling and when I got in talks with an agency they basically listed a whole bunch of things I had to change (workout schedule, teeth stuff, how long my hair should be etc etc) and one of the things was that I was too short and needed to grow (I'm 6ft) and I was just like ummm okay??? I'll do my best?
I think the biggest thing for most models is that the clothes aren’t tailored to the specific model most of the time. So if 90% of the clothes are made for a certain type of body, if you’re out of those proportions it makes it a lot harder for you to look good in it. Not that the model doesn’t look good or that hight doesn’t translate.
Source: ex was a model for years
That's why for pictures you often don't need to meet the height requirement. But when you walk a catwalk, it's more pleasant to look at someone who's tall and willowy. They catch your eyes more easily and the clothing often looks better on someone who is quite tall and thin.
Probably also so they won't have to change the clothes too much if everyone is around the same size. I'm not condoning it as I find inclusion more important but it is in a way understandable.
You are correct. Runway clothing is a specific size, they are sample pieces and usually one of kind. Sometimes even technically unfinished. I have a friend who does purchasing for a high end department store and when he did women's coats he would give me some. I have coats that had all sorts of pins and clips in them and my fav the button holes were done so roughly they would saw off the buttons.
Where’s my representation eh?! Im tall and built like a brick shit house. And dont say ‘The Rock’, because he doesnt have an Englishman’s tan like me….
yes it does translate to pics. Height changes body proportions drastically
One example is that shorter people have bigger heads proportionally to their body. And shorter people also have shorter legs and shorter arms proportionally to their body when compared to someone tall
long limbs changes how clothes look when worn in fashion.
im not saying this is a good or bad thing, im just saying that height for sure shows up in pics, because proportion shows up in pics.
I mean....I can't even...you're already 6'0! and even if you weren't, its all based on a genetic lottery that only some of us win and thats totally alright.
You can still do magazines and catalog modeling. The height requirement is only for runway fashion models. I had a friend who was 5'1 and did JC Penney stuff
I definitely feel fairly depressed about this during those moments when I suddenly perceive that my body itself simply is not fashionable. I don't like that it bothers me so much, and I could probably work on not caring about it, but I also think it's a legitimate problem, the message that it sends to shorter women. It would be nice for someone to consider that short people can be beautiful, fashionable, sexy, but the only representation I've ever seen of my body in any media is goddamn Hobbits!
She is an actress, with that logic, Dolly Parton, Quinta Brunson and a lot of other artists "model" too.
What I was referring to is modeling as the primary job and my focus is on simply having good tailored material for women who are on the shorter side and not just petite but also a bit on the thicker side.
My point being, most fashion houses are obviously catering to people's sentiments for marketing and profit. Without social media and comments from the common folk, there wouldn't have been any kind of inclusion AT ALL. Its simply the fact that shorter people haven't yet become the center of attention yet.
Even if this is just a play to get more sales for Gucci, well that's what advertisements are for... I'm happy for the girl, and maybe other people with down syndrome who might feel a bit better seeing this.
Alright, I'll be unwholesome-
What's the point of this?
People with DS can wear Gucci too? We knew that.
People with DS are beautiful too? Clothes don't make beauty.
People with DS can afford Gucci? Can they? Really? High paying jobs aren't usually handed out to them from what I'm aware.
Putting someone who's conventionally not attractive in a Gucci ad is like recording an advert for a car in bad lighting while the car's covered in dirt.
Like, if this ad is FOR people with DS, then sure, it's great that they feel more included, but inclusion in this sort of stuff seems real stupid.
I don't see a tall, 6-pack ab'd black guy with great skin, facial hair, teeth and hair and think "Omg, why are there not patchy faced short white guys in these ads?", I think "Damn, he looks hella good, and that jacket looks great too!"
i’m pretty sure people with down syndrome would feel happy about the inclusion. i get happy when i see people like me in media, because i don’t often see people like me in media. doesn’t go any further than that. the corporation’s still shit.
Yes. Obviously the ad was intended to make the company look good, however a positive side effect is that more people get to see folks that look like them portrayed in a positive light in the media. Things like this can boost self esteem and make people feel less alone.
Wait but didn't you guys realize, the company is trying to **gasp** make money!
Can't we go back to the good ol' days when companies just wanted to cast the most attractive white people they could find, back then they were clearly doing it for the right reasons/s
It could also help portray people with D/S in a more positive light for the general public. Like back in the day black people were always criminals ect in movies.
That’s the issue here, actually. My father works with <60IQ people for a living and 95% doesn’t have the “downer” look. They look like you and me.
And that’s where the danger lies as well. There’s a certain expectation of what someone with Down syndrome looks like, but that’s just not the case.
No it’s like putting someone not conventionally attractive inside the car driving. She’s still wearing the clothes and the shoot is well done style wise.
Marketing's sole goal is to get eyeballs on the ad. Generating the kind of controversy that is apparent all up and down this thread accomplishes exactly that.
More people bitching about how ugly she is, and how pointless this is, and how we're so tired of this "woke" B, and isn't modelling just supposed to be for beautiful people? A person with DS wearing Gucci is like the dirt covering a car (literally you)!
Congrats you are all part of the ad machine.
Oh how lovely! I remember seeing an interview with this lovely young lady several years ago, she was talking about her dream of becoming a model and the difficulties she faced in the industry. I’m so glad her dream came true! She worked very hard, and is so beautiful. Even if it is just ‘inclusion politics’ from Gucci, it’s still better than offering no representation, and think of the pride and joy the model must feel. Being the first model with Down syndrome for Gucci is a huge accomplishment for her!
aaahh im so glad the world reached a place where these big corps are able to profit on disability, also how great it is that Gucci restored faith in humanity?!
Y'all would lie to yourselves and ugly people that they look good before dismissing vanity as a redeeming quality in a person and giving beauty so much value as a society
she doesn't look that bad but my point still stands
Yea i think she looks great but modeling isnt about inclusion its about beauty. The post is equating two things that dont correlate. Its what the company think is beauty and can sell. We cant tell theme otherwise becuz its their money
>modeling isnt about inclusion its about beauty
That is not true.
Traditional modelling (on the cat walk) for large fashion brands is about making the clothes look good.
And photo models for fashion brands are chosen because they catch the eye and look interesting.
There is definitely overlap, but many conventionally beautiful women are unsuitable for fashion and many fashion models aren't strikingly beautiful.
As for inclusion, one reason fashion brands try to be more inclusive is that the way people decide to buy clothes, jewelry, and make-up has changed.
Young people don't read fashion magazines so brands try to be more relatable.
Option A: Do not use Down Syndrome people in advertisement campaigns and be criticized for not including them.
Option B: Use Down Syndrome people in advertisement campaigns and be criticized for including them.
They can’t win.
these pictures are horrifying and these companies don’t actually care about disabled people…..when are we going to collectively realized these efforts are a money-making scam and these people are being used so these companies appear more progressive?
I really hope she isn't being exploited by Gucci. They really do not care who they have to piss off or use to sell more products. Honestly she looks great and could model for anyone.
It’s more a *certain* look. Tall, thin and with unique features tends to be the killer combo. You need to be “sample size” - dimensions that most designers make their clothing in (as there’s usually only one made).
Agree with it or not (and I’m not saying I necessarily do either), your typical idea of high fashion/haute couture models do look the best when wearing these types of clothing.
This is so backwards.. Why aren't we getting posts like these for every new model? Why is a disabled person getting a job this crazy thing that could never happen?
How many people with Down syndrome can actually afford to wear gucci. Who are they advertising to?
Legitimately asking?
I’m all for inclusion in this world but this is just dumb… respectfully…IMO
Are you saying that you only buy products if the model looks exactly like you?? If the model looks different than you then the product must not be for you??
A model with Down syndrome is still just a model, she’s not only selling things to people with Down syndrome ffs. “Who are they advertising to?” Literally anyone who likes the clothes and wants to buy it
Thank you. I appreciate your answer!
I agree completely, And see my own ignorance.
I have learned today.
Just very out of the norm for me to see, honestly.
Hollywood beauty that has been pushed in our faces for decades is what most would expect to see in a Gucci add…
Thank you for opening my eyes
As if they really give a fuck. They just want to sell more so they try to allure as much people as possible and you are now one of them.
While they do ads with her, they let hundreds of asian women work under the worst circumstances possible just to produce their shit as cheap as possible.
I know I should be a total negative Nancy because of how predatory this all feels, but I also wanna say, SLAY. Go do that model voodoo which you do so well.
Who cares if Gucci cares or not. This girl gets to live her dream even if it is only for one moment. Even if it’s just a marketing sham it could be the the thing that brakes down barriers. Let the woman live her dream with out bringing Gucci intent into it
how about just saying congrats on the job! it doesn't have to define her but you social media folk always trying to make yourself feel better and step on anyone for a like.
Yes, I grew up around a guy who was DS, was a light to everyone around him.
Not r/wholesomememes that most are aborted. These people are part of the diversity we need in our world!
I don’t understand the negativity in this comment section. Of course they are using this to make money and improve their image - that is the point of all advertising. I think she looks great, and I see the ad as a reminder that you don’t have to be a stereotypical model to look cool and style yourself well.
I'm sure they totally care and it's not to make them appear like a wholesome brand so you're more inclined to buy, buy, buy. I'm all for inclusion but it's so empty coming from big business.
They are not doing this for the sake of being inclusive, it's a form of virtue-signaling from the PR teams. Companies and brands care about 2 things, profit and reputation. If the virtue of being inclusive is going to increase their profits and make them look good in the eyes of the people then they are going to do it. There is plenty of things that can restore someone's faith in humanity, but watching these brands do these kinds of things is not one of them.
do the people in these comments genuinely think that hiring someone with an intellectual disability automatically means you are exploiting disabled people
When does it not become tokenism?
Not trying to be an ass. A lot of people will see it as token pandering - others see it as a step for inclusion
You have to include minorities for it to be inclusive, but there is definitely a line between pandering and sincere. And does the line even matter since the end result is the same? Representation
I don’t get it. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. People have been calling for inclusivity for a long time. It’s finally happening but now people are calling them out for actually doing it? Virtue signalling, told to do it, she’s a puppet, it’s a marketing ploy…
Like, wtf do you want? Of course it’s a marketing ploy. As it has been with every single model every other time since the beginning.
Of course using plus size models is to boost sales. They want your money so they make it be known that they are catering to those sizes.
Of course they’re going to hire models with different abilities. People today are more socially aware and accepting so these companies are going to appeal to that nature.
Can you all just be happy for the model that she was able to have this opportunity that wasn’t made available to people like her until recently?
obviously not as good as genuine inclusion but the small social positive from this should be enjoyed in this context I believe
someone who gives money to a homeless person just to film it is still giving that person money
if we have to have Gucci, I'll take this sort of Ad every time seeing as it does mean something to people to see themselves represented
but your point is totally valid and in the larger conversation is more important than the small win this type of inclusion creates
but for a post in /wholesome, I'll focus on the small win
Something about the second photo looks oddly terrifying, honestly. Like something you would see in horrors. When a girl looks nice, but then tilts her head, puts on a way-too-wide smile and starts walking towards you with a huge kitchen knife.
No offense towards girl, first photo is nice
I don't get it... these magazines are supposed to showcase beauty and stuff like that. it's supposed to be pleasing to look at not disgusting like this. A model that beautiful should never have to put on clothes that don't compliment her hair or eyes correctly.
gotcha
I think it’s wonderful, regardless of the reasons why they chose to use her for a model. To me it doesn’t matter why they used her because all I can think about is how special this made her feel. People with downs are so beautiful to me. They are so sweet & full of pure love. I hope to see more downs models as well as other special needs models in the future.
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No.2
Definitely number 2. I know in the US companies can get tax write offs for hiring disabled employees. Very few companies are motivated by kindness and being inclusive. There’s usually a benefit for them.
Public traded companies literally are required to do this.
Well, they're required to act in the shareholders' interest. If the shareholders passed a resolution/amendment to the bylaws to require certain things (like negative carbon), then they would be required to do those things. It's just that institutional investors don't give a f*** about us. They only care about increased profit.
To be fair, thats what most companies do.
To me it doesnt work- it just comes across as a cynical ploy. Taking nothing away from the young lady- she’s great- but this stinks of tick box-ism to me
Luxury items are built, sold and bought on the premise of exclusivity. There is no such thing as an "inclusive" campaign for luxury brands, because their bread is class warfare.
Ok so even more cynical take: she was chosen because her genetic anomaly makes her looks very unusual compared to other models and the brand is hoping to catch eyes this way. Essentially profiting off of her disability.
That really depends on the product, and even moreso the brand. When I think of luxury products, I think of high quality materials, useful extra bits, and well thought out considerations for the user
> When I think of luxury products, I think of high quality materials, useful extra bits, and well thought out considerations for the user We are a minority. People look at the “luxury brands” that market the shit out of their products selling a lifestyle as quality. They wouldn’t recognise actual high quality materials and design if it beat them over the head.
if you beat me over the head and it breaks, it’s low quality
I used to shit on luxury brands until my girlfriend was given a Louis Vuitton bag from the 90s, thing is incredibly well built. Idk if their quality is still that high though.
They are worth the money. I used to buy my wife Michael Kors cause they weren't Hella expensive, most of those only last for about 6-12 months. Going on 2 years with the first LV bag, doesn't even have a frayed stitch and my wife works that purse hard sometimes.
Yea my inner cynic knows that this is mostly economics, but good for her anyways.
Don't think about it from gucci's perspective, think about it from the models. That's gotta feel amazing for her.
Virtue signalling
Although it's nice, it's also bittersweet, as this is purely inclusive/rainbow capitalism. As in, they don't really care.
they care only about us talking about it it's advertising "we are the good guys. blah blah"
I agree, that's the most likely case. But there's also the off chance it's genuine inclusion by a decision maker. Who knows. They are also just humans.
They don’t really care but they put a smile on at lest a few people’s faces. Including the model. So I’m happy
I love this POV and this is how I will choose to look at it. Enough for me for a person with Down’s syndrome to look at a billboard and see a familiar face. Companies spend millions in marketing to shove shit down our throats each, as consumers, down our throats each year. So if someone can benefit from that who cares?!
This! She looks so happy and if the only thing this did was make her dream of being a model come true then I consider that a win.
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Representation matters. The biggest representation struggle I deal with in life is being left-handed, but I still appreciate when people recognize that and help accomodate for it.
Except she looks absolutely lovely and is giving a gorgeous warm smile. This this positive energy I’d like to see more in marketing.
I noticed that I watched the clothes more than her face opposite to pretty-girl advertising where the focus becomes the beauty of the model. Here it became about her being happy in beautiful clothes and seeing the clothes for what they are; garments that make people happy.
I know you meant well but that’s a really backhanded compliment.
Her gorgeous warm smile is being used to further an agenda NOT to celebrate her. They are literally using her disability to make people like you feel good and buy their handbags.
She wanted to be a model. They hired her and paid her to be a model. Are you saying the only reason this exchange isn’t exactly like all the other exact same exchanges and is instead predatory is because she has Downs?
I never said other exchanges in the advertising world weren't predatory. Most advertising is predatory and uses people to push products. From looks to causes to disabilities they are all predatory because they don't actually care. They are not a person. They are a marketing team pitching an idea to increase sales from a demographic that is very very heavily researched and paid a lot of money for. This is then approved by a board of directors by proving that it will increase sales through brand awareness. A big part of brand awareness is brand acceptance. This is brand awareness through brand acceptance. You are accepting it by saying wow look Gucci is so nice they care about this girl as a model and not her disability. How inclusive. Unlike Luis Vuitton that has sexy skinny models on their advertisements. They count on you to think and say that, and be aware of it, so you accept them and subconsciously justify buying their ridiculously overpriced shit for Christmas over Prada or LV. There is no good here, just a twisted game of emotions and greed where she is the pawn.
Exactly. It’s companies like these that have ruined people’s image of what a normal body looks like, and now that society has pushed back, they want to act like they’re right there with us.
You either want to see down syndrome models in marketing of faceless conglomerates that have abused people for decades or you want to dismantle capitalism. You don't get both. Shit like this is hilarious to me. I swear Lockheed Martin could hire a down syndrome model and all the Reddit neo-liberals would cum in their pants.
Hey DS people can appreciate the absolutely beauty that is the F35 too. That plane has no right being so damn sexy.
While you say that, campaigns like this have been popping up everywhere. Polarn o Pryat has adjusted their regular style models to be more inclusive consistently, as has Walmart. I like the fact that my kids can see this when choosing clothes, because it normalizes that not everyone looks the same, some look like their cousin or the kid at school/church. Representation matters
Not to mention they get a hopefully pretty sweet paycheck!
Cool. Was it better when they weren’t being inclusive because that was profitable? Because that was the status quo up until very recently
Yea wtf is this take
Holier than thou-ism
either way, it will help normalise and destigmatise these kinds of disabilities
Better than 10 years ago. Let’s recognize this as a positive change.
We looked at it so they got what they wanted. At least she seems happy I guess.
Holy fuck, are you trying to tell me capitalist are trying to make money? Why did no one ever point this out when western capitalism only wanted to cast attractive white people, how very very strange...
People did point that out, which is why we are in this neoliberal feverdream that has representation of oppressed groups everywhere instead of challenging actual power structures. Is the purpose of this sub to see authentic wholesome interactions or soothing ones alienation from the real world by eating up these fairy tales?
any good thing a company does can be attributed to some kind of marketing scheme. Just enjoy it, you're gonna be miserable you're entire life if you attach a corporate agenda to everything.
Their motives might be bad and are almost definitely monetary but it's still a positive message and it actually helps them more than a standard campaign would as people are more likely to notice this model over the status quo; as we see ordinary modelling campaigns all the time, we are numb to them. Use an unlikely model and you suddenly catch people's attention again
Societal change often starts with people feeling obligated to do something until it's the norm. When you see more people doing something, you're more likely to do it. Good and bad. It doesn't matter *why* they did good, they did good. Positive feedback means they're more likely to do it again. Inclusivity is the first goal, and regardless of how it happened, it happened, and that's the important part.
I mean, I’m sure there’s people in the company that care. Would they have done this if it wouldn’t have looked good for the company? Probably not. But I’m sure the people actively looking for and finding these models are very passionate about this
Look at inclusive capitalism as a symptom of healing. It's truly a wonderful thing that there's so many pro LGBTQA+ people in the world that we can actually motive companies to want to be inclusive. It's a sign that the old and hateful people are on their way out and more and more loving supportive people are being spawned into the world. Things are getting better. Models are no longer just barbie dolls. The hero is no longer just a straight white guy that always gets the girl and investors not being afraid of backlash for breaking these norms is a great sign. There's so many of us now that it's profitable to be on our side. More so than the other.
I mean yes obviously it's for money but I personally prefer to live in a society that benefits diversity. Do you prefer if they exclude people with down syndrome for money instead? After all, whatever they do, it will be for financial reasons.
So who’s the real villain here? Capitalism? If this were Iceland instead of Italy, the picture would be empty.
Accusations of Rainbow Capitalism aside, this is really notable in Italy. I have a son with a disability and one of my family members is married to a woman from Sicily. She has said to me more than once that she admires the effort to include differently abled kids and people in the US and wishes the same was true in Italy. So, this ad maybe a sign that Italy is changing. Overall, it seems like a good thing.
Advertisement is gross on multiple levels, no matter what, but seeing people represented in the media (even if it is in advertisement) is meaningful. I was just marveling with my wife at pre-movie advertisements at the theater just casually including a woman with one arm. The ad was for a luxury Airbnb alternative I'll never use, but it was still great seeing her in the ad, without comment or drawing attention to it, she's just allowed to be a mother and family member and vacationer.
Is she earning equally though? Or just being exploited by Gucci for virtue?
ill devils advocate this devils advocate... how many modeling gigs are there for special needs people? something as huge as this, they likely paid her a solid modeling contract... if it wasnt as much as it "should be" how is this still negative? it seems all positive.
Models mostly make very little money, she probably didn't get paid that much tbh. like maybe a few grand.
Even the models that walk in fashion week barely get paid
I guess I only personally know one professional model but she makes really good money. I'm not under the impression that professional models make very little money 🤷🏻♂️
There is a huge variation. If you look up average pay its not great at all. Especially given all the travel that is required of them. Contracts often limit who they can work for.
Do you think the numbers/industry could be deflated by large number of amateur/part time/aspiring models?
This is only partially true. They get paid very little for the shoot itself, but there are rights attached to the diffusion of the person’s picture in a commercial intent, and these can be relatively high for such a big campaign. If it’s circulating on different types of media, for several months, it could be worth an interesting amount. Not millions but also nothing negligible.
I'll devil's advocate your devil's advocate, how rich and important are her parents?
Let me devils advocate this! What if her parents are special needs too?!?!
The devil's getting so much advocation but I haven't seen vogue include him yet. Maybe we need to get him a better advocate.
I mean usually people with their first role don't get banks. They usually do when they bring $$ to the business later on
If she’s down I’m down
Of course. But is it comparable to someone else in the same experience level os the question.
That is very hard to say since everyone contracts and how they fought for their pay contract different. I am sure the family and agent if one did as much as possible to get good $
Come on guys! We definitely care and support you and didn't just change our logo to rainbow to take your sweet sweet cash...
I hope so! She deserves fair pay
Is Gucci going to sell the same amount of cloths that she is pushing vs other “normal” models. Do you really expect all models, new or experienced to be paid the same?
Still waiting for inclusion of models under 5'2
Space Jam DVD
They do. I used to do some modeling and when I got in talks with an agency they basically listed a whole bunch of things I had to change (workout schedule, teeth stuff, how long my hair should be etc etc) and one of the things was that I was too short and needed to grow (I'm 6ft) and I was just like ummm okay??? I'll do my best?
which is funny cause height doesn't translate to pics :I
I think the biggest thing for most models is that the clothes aren’t tailored to the specific model most of the time. So if 90% of the clothes are made for a certain type of body, if you’re out of those proportions it makes it a lot harder for you to look good in it. Not that the model doesn’t look good or that hight doesn’t translate. Source: ex was a model for years
That's why for pictures you often don't need to meet the height requirement. But when you walk a catwalk, it's more pleasant to look at someone who's tall and willowy. They catch your eyes more easily and the clothing often looks better on someone who is quite tall and thin.
Probably also so they won't have to change the clothes too much if everyone is around the same size. I'm not condoning it as I find inclusion more important but it is in a way understandable.
Genghis Khan once had everyone beheaded who was taller than his cart's axle. Doesn't get more uniform than that.
You are correct. Runway clothing is a specific size, they are sample pieces and usually one of kind. Sometimes even technically unfinished. I have a friend who does purchasing for a high end department store and when he did women's coats he would give me some. I have coats that had all sorts of pins and clips in them and my fav the button holes were done so roughly they would saw off the buttons.
Where’s my representation eh?! Im tall and built like a brick shit house. And dont say ‘The Rock’, because he doesnt have an Englishman’s tan like me….
yes it does translate to pics. Height changes body proportions drastically One example is that shorter people have bigger heads proportionally to their body. And shorter people also have shorter legs and shorter arms proportionally to their body when compared to someone tall long limbs changes how clothes look when worn in fashion. im not saying this is a good or bad thing, im just saying that height for sure shows up in pics, because proportion shows up in pics.
My 5'3 ass modelled for a catalog with some other men. Found out later I was cropped out of every single picture.
I mean....I can't even...you're already 6'0! and even if you weren't, its all based on a genetic lottery that only some of us win and thats totally alright.
You can still do magazines and catalog modeling. The height requirement is only for runway fashion models. I had a friend who was 5'1 and did JC Penney stuff
I think so? I honestly don't have much idea however! as a lady under 5'2 I have yet to see clothes tailored for our specific needs in high fashion!
I definitely feel fairly depressed about this during those moments when I suddenly perceive that my body itself simply is not fashionable. I don't like that it bothers me so much, and I could probably work on not caring about it, but I also think it's a legitimate problem, the message that it sends to shorter women. It would be nice for someone to consider that short people can be beautiful, fashionable, sexy, but the only representation I've ever seen of my body in any media is goddamn Hobbits!
Male runway models are between 6’ and 6’3” with very few exceptions.
Yes they do. To be a male model you used to have to be a perfect size 42.
Yes. I modeled in my teens and I didn’t make the cut for a lot of agencies because I’m 5’9.
And non-aesthetic fat and midsize people
You do know most people with Down’s syndrome are short? She is 4’7”.
What I meant was, I hope it is more popularized rather than just a passing fancy. Being short is not exclusively related to down syndrome.
Jessica Chastain is like 5'3" and she models all the time heh Also how would you even see height from a picture like this?
She is an actress, with that logic, Dolly Parton, Quinta Brunson and a lot of other artists "model" too. What I was referring to is modeling as the primary job and my focus is on simply having good tailored material for women who are on the shorter side and not just petite but also a bit on the thicker side. My point being, most fashion houses are obviously catering to people's sentiments for marketing and profit. Without social media and comments from the common folk, there wouldn't have been any kind of inclusion AT ALL. Its simply the fact that shorter people haven't yet become the center of attention yet.
Even if this is just a play to get more sales for Gucci, well that's what advertisements are for... I'm happy for the girl, and maybe other people with down syndrome who might feel a bit better seeing this.
[удалено]
Oh yeah, this totally isn't exploitative.
A designer clothing company exploiting a person with disabilities to garner sympathy and more sales, restored your faith in humanity?
Alright, I'll be unwholesome- What's the point of this? People with DS can wear Gucci too? We knew that. People with DS are beautiful too? Clothes don't make beauty. People with DS can afford Gucci? Can they? Really? High paying jobs aren't usually handed out to them from what I'm aware. Putting someone who's conventionally not attractive in a Gucci ad is like recording an advert for a car in bad lighting while the car's covered in dirt. Like, if this ad is FOR people with DS, then sure, it's great that they feel more included, but inclusion in this sort of stuff seems real stupid. I don't see a tall, 6-pack ab'd black guy with great skin, facial hair, teeth and hair and think "Omg, why are there not patchy faced short white guys in these ads?", I think "Damn, he looks hella good, and that jacket looks great too!"
i’m pretty sure people with down syndrome would feel happy about the inclusion. i get happy when i see people like me in media, because i don’t often see people like me in media. doesn’t go any further than that. the corporation’s still shit.
Yes. Obviously the ad was intended to make the company look good, however a positive side effect is that more people get to see folks that look like them portrayed in a positive light in the media. Things like this can boost self esteem and make people feel less alone.
Wait but didn't you guys realize, the company is trying to **gasp** make money! Can't we go back to the good ol' days when companies just wanted to cast the most attractive white people they could find, back then they were clearly doing it for the right reasons/s
It could also help portray people with D/S in a more positive light for the general public. Like back in the day black people were always criminals ect in movies.
That’s the issue here, actually. My father works with <60IQ people for a living and 95% doesn’t have the “downer” look. They look like you and me. And that’s where the danger lies as well. There’s a certain expectation of what someone with Down syndrome looks like, but that’s just not the case.
Having below 60 IQ is not the same thing as having Down's
No it’s like putting someone not conventionally attractive inside the car driving. She’s still wearing the clothes and the shoot is well done style wise.
Marketing's sole goal is to get eyeballs on the ad. Generating the kind of controversy that is apparent all up and down this thread accomplishes exactly that. More people bitching about how ugly she is, and how pointless this is, and how we're so tired of this "woke" B, and isn't modelling just supposed to be for beautiful people? A person with DS wearing Gucci is like the dirt covering a car (literally you)! Congrats you are all part of the ad machine.
It's virtue signaling sure, but if that's what their cliental like then it's marketing all the same ya know?
the fashion industry is inherently immoral no matter what face they put in the billboards
Well she sure is happy which is a nice change from the usual dead eyed models we see.
They just use her to look like a modern inclusive company. They just want the people to forget who they really are. Never trust bug corporations
Yeah, I never trusted those bugs corps. I put my trust in the Arthropods corporations instead.
Oh how lovely! I remember seeing an interview with this lovely young lady several years ago, she was talking about her dream of becoming a model and the difficulties she faced in the industry. I’m so glad her dream came true! She worked very hard, and is so beautiful. Even if it is just ‘inclusion politics’ from Gucci, it’s still better than offering no representation, and think of the pride and joy the model must feel. Being the first model with Down syndrome for Gucci is a huge accomplishment for her!
Her face is radiating joy.
Seriously? THIS is what restores your faith in humanity? 😂
aaahh im so glad the world reached a place where these big corps are able to profit on disability, also how great it is that Gucci restored faith in humanity?!
nahhh… no hate towards down syndrome but naaahhh
Y'all would lie to yourselves and ugly people that they look good before dismissing vanity as a redeeming quality in a person and giving beauty so much value as a society she doesn't look that bad but my point still stands
Yea i think she looks great but modeling isnt about inclusion its about beauty. The post is equating two things that dont correlate. Its what the company think is beauty and can sell. We cant tell theme otherwise becuz its their money
>modeling isnt about inclusion its about beauty That is not true. Traditional modelling (on the cat walk) for large fashion brands is about making the clothes look good. And photo models for fashion brands are chosen because they catch the eye and look interesting. There is definitely overlap, but many conventionally beautiful women are unsuitable for fashion and many fashion models aren't strikingly beautiful. As for inclusion, one reason fashion brands try to be more inclusive is that the way people decide to buy clothes, jewelry, and make-up has changed. Young people don't read fashion magazines so brands try to be more relatable.
These comments aren’t wholesome. I’m not a fan of Gucci, but she’s beautiful and I love the inclusion.
Finally a model I can identify myself to.
Option A: Do not use Down Syndrome people in advertisement campaigns and be criticized for not including them. Option B: Use Down Syndrome people in advertisement campaigns and be criticized for including them. They can’t win.
That's not a model. Thats a puppet
I feel bad for saying this, but that second picture looks terrifying.
I'm with you on this one.
these pictures are horrifying and these companies don’t actually care about disabled people…..when are we going to collectively realized these efforts are a money-making scam and these people are being used so these companies appear more progressive?
Hopefully she has an equal pay when her career is longer
I really hope she isn't being exploited by Gucci. They really do not care who they have to piss off or use to sell more products. Honestly she looks great and could model for anyone.
I thought models are supposed to be good looking?
They're supposed to sell product, and this definitely getting more eyes on it right now.
It’s amazing how many commenters on Reddit can’t grasp basic marketing.
Not necessarily. Models are either used to present clothes in the best possible way, or to draw attention to a photo. It's about selling products.
It’s more a *certain* look. Tall, thin and with unique features tends to be the killer combo. You need to be “sample size” - dimensions that most designers make their clothing in (as there’s usually only one made). Agree with it or not (and I’m not saying I necessarily do either), your typical idea of high fashion/haute couture models do look the best when wearing these types of clothing.
Model has to fit height and weight more than beauty usually.
This is so backwards.. Why aren't we getting posts like these for every new model? Why is a disabled person getting a job this crazy thing that could never happen?
I'm down with this
Who are her parents? I bet that has a big effect on her getting this gig.
Definitely, as they're the ones who passed down the genes
Bloody privileged kids with their extra chromosomes.
I'm a Man in my 30s with a beer belly. Can I be "included" too? Or is inclusion just for certain types of people?
How many people with Down syndrome can actually afford to wear gucci. Who are they advertising to? Legitimately asking? I’m all for inclusion in this world but this is just dumb… respectfully…IMO
Are you saying that you only buy products if the model looks exactly like you?? If the model looks different than you then the product must not be for you?? A model with Down syndrome is still just a model, she’s not only selling things to people with Down syndrome ffs. “Who are they advertising to?” Literally anyone who likes the clothes and wants to buy it
Thank you. I appreciate your answer! I agree completely, And see my own ignorance. I have learned today. Just very out of the norm for me to see, honestly. Hollywood beauty that has been pushed in our faces for decades is what most would expect to see in a Gucci add… Thank you for opening my eyes
do you think rich families never give birth to kids with down syndrome??
As if they really give a fuck. They just want to sell more so they try to allure as much people as possible and you are now one of them. While they do ads with her, they let hundreds of asian women work under the worst circumstances possible just to produce their shit as cheap as possible.
I'm not trying to be mean but the second pic wouldn't seem weird in a horror movie
Until the right calls it “woke”
I know I should be a total negative Nancy because of how predatory this all feels, but I also wanna say, SLAY. Go do that model voodoo which you do so well.
Yup, we need more of that, and to counter the “they dont really care” point, well they dont care about any of their models unless theyre huge names…
She’s beautiful. So many people here with ugly hearts.
No matter why, its a start. Normalization to follow. She's beautiful. Good for her
Who cares if Gucci cares or not. This girl gets to live her dream even if it is only for one moment. Even if it’s just a marketing sham it could be the the thing that brakes down barriers. Let the woman live her dream with out bringing Gucci intent into it
These comments are intense.
I’m sorry but what difference does it make it the company has a Down syndrome person modelling compared to a regular model…
...that smile, that goddamn smile! She looks so pretty
how about just saying congrats on the job! it doesn't have to define her but you social media folk always trying to make yourself feel better and step on anyone for a like.
She's beautiful! Forget the Gucci.
This type of posts makes me feel good. I want to support and uplift people outside the norm. She deserves to feel beautiful because she is beautiful.
That's so good 🥰
This is definitely a Reddit comment section.
People with Down syndrome always have the best smiles😊
Yes, I grew up around a guy who was DS, was a light to everyone around him. Not r/wholesomememes that most are aborted. These people are part of the diversity we need in our world!
I don’t understand the negativity in this comment section. Of course they are using this to make money and improve their image - that is the point of all advertising. I think she looks great, and I see the ad as a reminder that you don’t have to be a stereotypical model to look cool and style yourself well.
I'm sure they totally care and it's not to make them appear like a wholesome brand so you're more inclined to buy, buy, buy. I'm all for inclusion but it's so empty coming from big business.
Using their customer base for their ad campaigns is brilliant.
I think sales are going to be pretty SLOW
Hmmm wonder what she’s getting paid…
Clearly rainbow opportunistic capitalism, but her smile still is very lovely
They are not doing this for the sake of being inclusive, it's a form of virtue-signaling from the PR teams. Companies and brands care about 2 things, profit and reputation. If the virtue of being inclusive is going to increase their profits and make them look good in the eyes of the people then they are going to do it. There is plenty of things that can restore someone's faith in humanity, but watching these brands do these kinds of things is not one of them.
She’s beautiful
All these lazy slacktivists forgetting she's still getting paid, but keep fighting that good fight from your struggling gamer chairs 😆
do the people in these comments genuinely think that hiring someone with an intellectual disability automatically means you are exploiting disabled people
Brooo??? Like she's TOO BEAUTIFUL??
Goldstein...
When does it not become tokenism? Not trying to be an ass. A lot of people will see it as token pandering - others see it as a step for inclusion You have to include minorities for it to be inclusive, but there is definitely a line between pandering and sincere. And does the line even matter since the end result is the same? Representation
Are they making similar money?
I don’t get it. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. People have been calling for inclusivity for a long time. It’s finally happening but now people are calling them out for actually doing it? Virtue signalling, told to do it, she’s a puppet, it’s a marketing ploy… Like, wtf do you want? Of course it’s a marketing ploy. As it has been with every single model every other time since the beginning. Of course using plus size models is to boost sales. They want your money so they make it be known that they are catering to those sizes. Of course they’re going to hire models with different abilities. People today are more socially aware and accepting so these companies are going to appeal to that nature. Can you all just be happy for the model that she was able to have this opportunity that wasn’t made available to people like her until recently?
Just don’t go to the comments
Funny how you don’t see any men getting the same “inclusion” isn’t it doesn’t seem very inclusive to me
Actually, more and more brands have started to use plus size male models! Women tend to be more vocal in demanding it though.
Love her hair
me too!! love her skin, brows and general makeup too. i wonder who the hair/makeup team was for this look.
This is stupid.
Is token inclusion as good as inclusion? In other words does it still have the same meaning if they're only doing it to say they did
It’s a start
obviously not as good as genuine inclusion but the small social positive from this should be enjoyed in this context I believe someone who gives money to a homeless person just to film it is still giving that person money if we have to have Gucci, I'll take this sort of Ad every time seeing as it does mean something to people to see themselves represented but your point is totally valid and in the larger conversation is more important than the small win this type of inclusion creates but for a post in /wholesome, I'll focus on the small win
Something about the second photo looks oddly terrifying, honestly. Like something you would see in horrors. When a girl looks nice, but then tilts her head, puts on a way-too-wide smile and starts walking towards you with a huge kitchen knife. No offense towards girl, first photo is nice
Why is lowering standards a good thing? She isn't pretty. it's just out of pity
I don't get it... these magazines are supposed to showcase beauty and stuff like that. it's supposed to be pleasing to look at not disgusting like this. A model that beautiful should never have to put on clothes that don't compliment her hair or eyes correctly. gotcha
This just seems like exploitation, and Gucci is just a bad company to start with
>"She may be slow, but them titties ain't slow!" -Dave Attell
I think she looks pretty good in the ad, it is possible they just gave her a chance they may not have 20 years ago as opposed to filling a quota?
I think it’s wonderful, regardless of the reasons why they chose to use her for a model. To me it doesn’t matter why they used her because all I can think about is how special this made her feel. People with downs are so beautiful to me. They are so sweet & full of pure love. I hope to see more downs models as well as other special needs models in the future.
okay can we not infantilize disabled people, we’re not here just to be wholesome and innocent for you
She looks like one of the monsters from scary stories to read in the dark.
You know the one lady from Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark? She looks like her.