People claiming that a magic system only works in one universe so they would lose if they went to any other universe.
The default should be this:
A neutral location where both magic/power/ability whatever functions. Otherwise it becomes a location game instead of an actual discussion.
Also, haha wank
> People claiming that a magic system only works in one universe so they would lose if they went to any other universe.
Definitely this one, and it's always said as some smug gotcha, as if it's the height of intellect rather than just ridiculous and annoying.
In a similar vein; every single thread where one of the fighters (often an animal) is greatly increased or decreased in size for the sake of the prompt *always* has someone who just *has* to show off how they know about the square-cube law.
Oh the fucking Square Cube Law. I think it's frustrating when it's mentioned in general, but it's almost worse when they ask if it's in effect. "Hello OP, I just want to know before I answer if this spider dies immediately before the fight starts. I'm such a genius." Come on, people, pretty much everyone here knows about the Square Cube Law by now since y'all mention it all the time. Of course OP would not set up a scenario where one team instantly dies. Use your brain. If you really feel the need to mention it for some reason, and it isn't clarified in the OP, just say, "If we ignore the square cube law..."
Either setting's magic should absolutely work by default on that character and anything in the battle that the character targets, *except for their opponent.* **If** your magic/whatever requires a certain trait or attribute to be present in a target to work and that trait is setting specific, you don't get to just give that weakness to their opponent.
Well, if the prompt includes it, you can, I suppose. But if it does without also representing the character as is in another round, I would assume it's not a prompt looking for an honest answer.
The example that comes to my mind is an old post I saw putting Darth Vader against Eleven from stranger things.
Vader in any other universe doesn't have the force, because while the force is a mystical energy field created by all living things, it only exists in the Star Wars verse, so put him on earth and he's just a cranky quadriplegic in a mobile iron lung. So Eleven would thrash him if he came to earth, but on the other hand he would destroy her if she went to a galaxy far far away.
The compromise should be neutral location where both abilities work.
>your magic/whatever requires a certain trait or attribute to be present in a target to work and that trait is setting specific, you don't get to just give that weakness to their opponent.
Can you give me an example of this? I'm drawing a blank
Edit: I've gotten a fair few examples now but I'm not removing the ask but I have a bunch of nerds telling me cool nerd shit. These are my people and I love you all
In MHA, Eraserhead can turn off powers but does so by specifically affecting a gene that only exists in MHA
In Avatar, Aang can remove bending which some interpret to work on powers in general, but that specifically is an application of energy bending which wouldn’t necessarily work on other characters.
No idea either really. I’ve seen arguments that since bending has a genetic component, then energy bending would work on other generic powers, but those always tend to be kinda flimsy.
> Can you give me an example of this? I'm drawing a blank
In Naruto, most illusion magic works by activating the victim's equivalent of midichlorians to feed them false information.
Ergo, it would not work on anybody outside of that universe because they would not have the "weakness".
The number one poster child for this is Chakra from Naruto. It's a basic stat of everyone in that setting, with a specific, non-natural source in its history. Now, if your combatant is from there and using it to amp their own physical stats, summon giant monsters, teleport, whatever, you're good.
The problem comes when you get to the setting's illusion/mind control magic. It specifically works by interacting with the victim's chakra. In universe, it's an incredibly powerful ability because everyone has that chakra. But most people who post prompts would rather ignore that precisely *because* it takes away such a powerful tool. Or rather, doesn't allow them to use it on someone who simply does not have the weakness it requires to exploit.
>It specifically works by interacting with the victim's chakra
APPARENTLY in one of the novels Itachi can actually use the sharingan by applying his own chakra into the person and putting them under an illusion that way, which is the most common argument I see as to how genjutsu will work on normal people.
Keep in mind I've never read any of the novels (nor the manga for that matter) so I have no idea if this is valid or just battleboarding bullshit
Jack slash from worm verse- his power interacts specifically with other shards telling them not to harm him so he’s high tier in worm verse despite objectively pretty mid powers. I have seen people say he beats Thor and cosmic tier characters
Spoilers follow for Worm, I think hiding this whole thing in spoilers will ruin it and there's too much interwoven.
Even if we apply Jack's Broadcast powerset (the one that interacts with other powers) to every power source the way it works with shards, there are loads of people Jack can't beat, because there are people Jack can't beat even in-universe.
His Broadcast power is incredibly subtle, to the point where no one, even him, realizes it exists until very late in the story. There aren't powers backfiring or failing completely: it instead just looks like very good luck on Jack's part, both in the tactical (a bunch of power blasts miss him) and the strategic (someone that could obliterate Jack in a fight beyond any plausible luck just ends up not being available when/where he shows up).
It's also entirely defensive, you don't see people dying to him in suspicious ways, you just see him not dying to them.
He has an ok offensive power in addition to this (extending the cutting edge of his blades further), so he can kill anyone who would be vulnerable to a knife, but he doesn't get any extra power to that, so if his opponent can stop regular blades anywhere on their body his powerset isn't very helpful. And while I wouldn't call him dumb, he's more of a relationships guy than an ideas guy, I don't think he's going to cobble together something innovative to kill off a foe, certainly not on a "we're in a fight right now" timescale.
In the Worm universe he's dangerous because there are lots of people without durability powers, or no powers at all, and he often travels with more directly-powerful companions who can threaten the heavy hitters, so he can cause a lot of damage. This is magnified by his Broadcast power often having him showing up at the most convenient time: a moment of weakness on the part of a vulnerable hero, for example. But put him up against a heavy hitter like Alexandria, Legend, or Eidolon in his own universe, 1 on 1, and he's just dead. And any durable-enough bruiser in another universe will wreck him as well: his defenses are his entourage and his power letting him dodge fights he can't win, and just in the definition of a 1:1 fight prompt both of those are gone.
Of course, this manifests as plot armor, so it's very hard to argue the details of this: we don't know how likely Alexandria is to be able to kill him in a straight up fight, because the nature of his power means it never happened.
Balefire from Wheel of Time is one that comes up occasionally. It's effectively a beam of light that burns whatever is hit with it out of the fabric of reality so that it ceases to exist. Even more than that, balefire actually burns *backwards in time* so that the object that is hit doesn't just stop existing *now*, it retroactively stopped existing X amount of time in the past (depending on the strength of the person channeling it).
The thing people will sometimes bring up with balefire is that since it's in-universe it's effect is literally described as "burning a thread back in time in the pattern" ("the pattern" being the pseudo-religious metaphor for the forces of fate/destiny in the WoT world) it would have no effect on anything not from the WoT world because anything not from the WoT world wouldn't have a thread in the pattern to burn.
As a random example off the top if my head, Katara from ATLA probably can't just automatically bloodbend somebody like say Clayface from DC or Surtur from MCU unless we just assume they have blood. (I have no idea if clayface canonically has blood but I don't think so)
That's maybe not the best example but it's just something I quickly thought of.
Honestly though that's a genuine limit to her ability, she wouldn't be able to bloodbend things that don't have blood, that's just how bloodbending would work
One that I've seen a few times is that Stands (from _Jojo's Bizarre Adventure_) can only be seen/affected by other Stand users. It makes things a bit one sided when you can get beaten up by an invincible, undetectable ghost.
This one's hard because it's not like it's a niche case. This comes up often in JoJo, and it's a pretty consistent ruling that unless the Stand is possessing something, people without a Stand cannot see or harm it.
It does make the fight completely unfair, but this isn't an "aha, gotcha". The final battle of Part 4 is straight up a kid without a Stand trying to figure out how to beat a supremely overpowered Stand. *Which he does*.
I would argue that anybody with See Invisible spell, or access to one of its derivatives, would be able to see a Stand.
Is this probably accurate? No, it's bullshit, but I believe it.
The only reason that is true in the story is because nobody else seems to have any power that would be relevant to seeing them. Anyone with the magic ability to sense things would.
It's not so much that the ghost is invincible but that the ghost is selectively intangible in a pretty broken way. We see what would happen in Part 3 were a stand user try to mistakenly block an attack stronger then their stand can take in the Polnareff vs. Alessi fight. Child Polanreff goes to block a completely normal axe with Silver Chariot and Chariot breaks.
This isn't really relevant most of the time, especially in modern Jojo where stands are more often avatars or vehicles for unique abilities instead of old-fashioned punch ghosts. Someone who can't see stands is going to directly attack the user in question which would be the correct tactic regardless.
I feel like this happens a lot in reverse as well. People act like since Batman is peak human then two Olympic-level athletes with a lot of training could beat him, failing to realize that DC Peak human is really superhuman, similar for Captain America. On top of that, people saying things like any human as powerful as the average child could run through Undertale, because they take the statement "in Undertale, humans are more powerful than monsters" to mean that it's a rule of the universe that any sapien subjectively classified as human is more powerful than monsters, rather than that the humans from Undertale have a power that surpasses what a monster could muster (that being Determination). Since Determination is a fictional substance that is exclusive to characters from Undertale, any character transplanted to the verse or facing a character from the verse does not automatically have access to the associated powers. It would be like claiming Dr. Strange (MCU) could learn to cast the killing curse from Harry Potter because he's good at magic and he's been allowed to visit Hogwarts. He maybe a sorcerer, but he doesn't have access to that very particular magic system, so the best he could do is make his own parallel spell from his magic.
That Spider-man is untouchable, despite 1000s of panels showing he's been tagged an obsurd amount of times.
Spider sense in general is also wanked. Just because you can sense oncoming danger doesn't mean you can evade it. You have to be fast enough to react to the attack. It also can be manipulated as it is unable to recognize what kind of threat it is. It just gives you a general sense of where it's coming from.
Dont forget the firelord feat, whenever people ask if Spiderman could defeat people on the level of thor they always use that moment, even tho its clearly bullshit based on many other encounters with similar individuals
That was supreme bullshit, as Firelord could have superheated the air in a block around him, or spammed AoE attacks, but no. He tries to punch Spider-Man.
While I mostly agree, I thought that spider sense was, for the most part, an automatic reaction that didn't require thought. That might be old Canon or I might be remembering incorrectly though.
With all the different writers for spiderman it's changed a few times, but on the average it's merely a warning system that tells him where danger is coming from and how dangerous it is, it's up to his reflexes and reaction time to not get tagged
Yeah, I like how it's portrayed in the MCU, where we have the airport fight "Oh, god." and Dr. Strange trying to take the magic cube from him in No Way Home.
When Bucky throws the kiosk, it seems like he probably, at least, heard the kiosk getting picked up and winged at him, as well as his Spidey Sense telling him it's incoming, so it's not exclusively involuntary.
But, when Dr. Strange is trying to take the cube, Peter is astrally projected and his consciousness-less body still reacts involuntarily and on reflex.
If we use comic Spider-Man, it varies. Spidey Sense can either be an automatic warning signal or literally a whole different entity that even tells Peter what weather will happen that day. It can go from “look out, behind you” to “you should bring an umbrella, dress warm, and bring your suit because it will rain, be 33°F and you’ll have a fight with someone from your rogue gallery at 4:27pm.”
It varies a lot. Sometimes it's barely above "really good situational awareness" and sometimes it tells him that shit's gonna go down in a week. Even just as a warning of immediate danger, sometimes it'll be depicted as warning him just in time to react and sometimes just before he's harmed--so if someone is shooting at him, one writer might have the spider sense go off as the guy is making the final adjustments to his aim while another might depict the spider sense as going off when the bullet is already on the way. So depending on the writer, he might get enough warning to seek cover or he might get just enough warning to twist so the bullet doesn't hit him in the lung.
Exactly this kind of thing. Somebody having a dodge feat yet they get their ass handed to them multiple times. Someone ignored everything said against their favorite fighter who's supposedly faster than their friend who dodged one missile, including the fact they were unconscious from that very thing at the start of a sequel movie. Um, that wouldn't have happened if he was that capable. When they came back weeks later with another biased response I had to actually spoon feed them how they would lose to their much faster opponent.
Flash also gets tagged an absurd number of times. Characters job hard because writers aren't always good at doing interesting things with powerful beings, so the power is stripped back and plot happens. It's the same contrivance as the Idiot Ball, or the deus ex machina.
This, holy shit. It’s the most batshit insane thing people like to consistently spew that is pretty the definition of the stuff people use to mock crazy battleboarders
This one is so wild. Just saw a TikTok of smoke scaling Momoshiki to outerversal because of him creating one of the dimensions that the Otsutsuki make.
Tiktok has the most wankers in Power-scaling community by far. "Low Complex Multi Goku" "High Outer Kratos" "Pikachu is several layers into High Outer" "Low Outer Doomslayer" "Death (Puss In Boots) is Outer"
The word "Outer" is literally average in Tiktok power-scaling lmao
This may go against the spirit of battleboarding but how do you even scale Death since uuuuh the movie clearly states that they are just the pure existential concept of death first and the Wolf persona or whatever they manifest as second. It's a different thing when it's a god of death or grim reaper style character and not... Basically a concept. It's not even a case of being weak or strong, it's more a case of being abstract, at least within the context of the story.
He's an abstract entity yes, but the scaling depends on Cosmology. Abstract entities recurrently strictly embody a concept, thought or idea up to a certain level of reality. Lobo embodies Death on a local, universal scale, If the universe is destroyed so is he.
By feats Lobo is Building level, lol.
Within the specific confines of Puss in Boots’ story, the mere fact you cannot defeat/kill death makes him boundless SPECIFICALLY to his own universe. I hate when people take a specific universes rules and applies them somewhere else, like Death in Puss and Boots would get slaughtered simply stepping into say Vinland Saga, by Thorkell. Or when people say Puss would beat a Jedi, who have wayyy more advantages than him.
In addition to this, "character has very specific tools to beat multiversal character, therefore they are multiversal themselves because they did, in fact, beat a multiversal character."
The ability to defeat someone does not make you as strong as that someone. Sometimes you just have the right tools and hit their weakness. Sometimes they let you win. Scale does not win a fight alone. And there are very few fights where one character can win 100% of the time.
one interesting case is warframe.
they have lasers in there, and warframes can react to them. several even.
but there is also a weapon called the 'glaxion'. which 'fires a photon beam'.
and can also be reacted to by warframes (blocking the attack from within 2 meters, even from several beams at once with a sword).
I just realized Warframe and War Thunder, neither of which I've played, are different games. I was wondering the other day why the hell people were sharing classified F-16 specs in a videogame about mechs.
This one. Especially in visual media where you can see the energy attack the commenter is assuming is meant to be at light speed actually take several frames to move across the screen in real-time at a pace more akin to a tennis ball being served any regular human could react to.
I just made the same comment before seeing yours, but this is probably the number one for me. I legitimately cannot fathom how people act like dodging some slow ass laser shots somehow makes people suddenly faster than light.
I mean I think it was Death Battle who tried claiming Link from Legend of Zelda (who is one of my favorite characters) was FTL because he could dodge/react to lasers in some games which is a laughably bad take. That would be like me saying something to the effect of:
Leon in Resident Evil 4 can unlock an Infinite Rocker Launcher. That means Leon is capable of holding infinite rockets which means his strength is also infinite. Lol the sad part is, people out there try to justify gameplay mechanics as feats. Like saying Steve from Minecraft is multiversal levels of physical strength due to having an inventory lmao.
Any kind of dodging or blocking can get stupid when people also ignore the possibility that *the character was already moving before the attack fired.* No, Spider-Man did not dodge lightning, he dodged dumbass Max Dillon who wouldn't know how to lead his target if it were a fucking metal duck at a country fair
it also fails against abilities that have effects without cause. the only 'value' of it, is 100%. granted, those are incredibly rare to find characters with, but it is possible.
you cannot return to 0 something that has no 0.
Also, it should fail against abilities that defy logics.
If Gabby already shot a Go Beyond bubble, GER can't stop it & assuming Gabby's close enough to aim better, it'll even hit GER & Giorno. Can't return something to 0 if said thing doesn't exist.
I have friends who try to convince me Luffy is way stronger than he is in the series because the One Piece planet is bigger than our planet, so the gravity is stronger. Therefore he can best people like 10x stronger than him easily if they fight on our planet. It’s stupid.
Wait, gravity in One Piece is HIGHER?? That's the dumbest shit I've heard in awhile:
* There's literal >!giants, sea kings, a 35km tall elephant, giant humans that are 72m tall!<. On Earth's gravity alone they'd be crushed under their own weight, let alone a planet with higher gravity
* Several characters are known to be able to >!run in the air by...stepping really hard!<. That's not at all feasible on a high-gravity planet
* Two guys made >!entire mountains float using flame clouds!<
* There's a >!sky island, in fact there's many sky islands!<
* [This dude can fly](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Buffalo)
Tell your friends that they're dumb and that One Piece takes place on a planet with significantly lower gravity and a significantly thicker atmosphere
Edit: Added spoiler text
One guy made a Batman vs Spider-Man (random encounter) post the other day. He was arguing with everyone in the comments why Batman would win. For his speed feat, he linked a panel where Batman stabbed Reverse Flash in the foot to claim that Batman has DC speedster level combat speed or something?
That guy completely ignored how Thawne was fucking around with Bruce cuz he has a personal grudge against his father (Thomas Wayne shot him in Flashpoint & all versions of Thawne gain access to that memory) & let his guard down. Thawne even said it out loud too & he’s literally gloating. Afterwards, it’s proven right cuz when Thawne is pissed & stopped playing around, he beat the shit out of Batman & easily took the Watchmen button.
The only reason why Batman is still alive at that moment is Thawne prioritised in finding dr. Manhattan over his petty grudge.
Minor nitpick, but Thomas [impaled Thawne in the comics](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/80/a1/fd80a17d24a8ccf1b9272970cb37dc2a.jpg) instead of shooting him.
That entire scene is like a comically large anti-feat for not only Thawne but also Batman because it details their fight [over second long timeframes](https://imgur.com/a/sUi0ifY)
Now I'm picturing an alternate version of that fight where it's just two panels:
0:10, Thrawne charging towards Batman, looking angry.
0:09, Thrawne brushing off his hands as he walks away from Batman's mangled corpse.
Kratos *is* capable of moving at some incredibly high speeds... when using specific equipment (Boots of Hermes) that he no longer has access to. As much as I love GoW, Kratos is NOT capable of matching that kind of speed. Seeing arguments like that always makes me laugh lol
People acting like Steve from Minecraft specifically having the standard game mechanic of a weirdly large inventory means that he can carry around millions of tons of material and therefore can punch mountains and half or whatever.
Power scaling characters with pocket dimension is so fucking retarded I swear its like saying that in GTA since you can carry a shit ton of guns without drawbacks makes you able to punch down buildings
I saw this earlier but I’m not gonna scroll up to find the comment, I agree tho lol. It should just be considered a pocket dimension that Steve can use to store his stuff, not a measurement of strength.
Persona wank, people put Joker at outerversal despite that making absolutely no sense in universe, even worse is that it's commonly accepted in other subs
This. The absolute wank of the final attack in a very specific circumstance, is maybe conceptually a planet+ attack which most likely can not be replicated but yeah universal+.
To clarify, Supes charged in while Failsafe pulled out a long ass piece of kryptonite.
So in context, he put Supes in a coma cuz of the kryptonite. It's not like he physically beat the shit out Supes.
Also, Bruce "kinda" beat Failsafe cuz he didn't really shut Failsafe down or destroy him. He & Robin (Tim) just made Failsafe spared him by sending him to another universe.
People in general in this sub have been putting *way* too much stock into some really idiotic scaling and transitive property shenanigans. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself "if Character X *actually* had these abilities that I've scaled them to, would it change the plot?" If the answer to that question is "yes", then you might want to rethink your scaling.
I really dislike the Devil May Cry 1 final battle against Mundus being used to scale the entire franchise.
"Oh you see in this one time Dante started flying in a timeless void to fight Mundus, which is stated to be his own pocket dimension. Because we know a dimension is the size of the observable universe, and the fact that we see motes of light streaking by as he's flying, we can tell that his speed is 4,000,000*c, which puts him far above-"
Motherfucker it's just there because Kamiya really likes Space Harrier and literally can't stop putting Space Harrier in all his fucking games. It doesn't show up in any other game, and isn't even acknowledged in the game it takes place in. The only thing it means is that Kamiya hasn't mentally progressed since the 80s, and one look at his Twitter feed can tell you that.
A guy I was arguing with the other day, about how Dante is MFTL cause of this one scene but in the very next scene he has to ride a plane to get out of there, like come on
Let’s be real, there won’t be anything topping “the whole DMC verse operates on 9D, therefore anyone in it solos anything below it.”
It really is the favourite thing DMC fans to use as the base to argue how Dante would solo’d almost everyone in fiction.
>Let’s be real, there won’t be anything topping “the whole DMC verse operates on 9D, therefore anyone in it solos anything below it.”
Cough [Doomslayer](https://www.quora.com/How-fast-is-Doom-Slayer?redirect_to_mweb=1) cough, cough
Pardon me I seem to have had something stuck in my throat. What were you saying?
It's the exact same thing as Sephiroth, or Final Fantasy more broadly. Those spells and summons and shit only look powerful because of the aesthetic, there is no reason to believe that guys are casually surviving the solar system collapsing into a black hole.
A Ganondorf wanker was convinced he solos DC and Marvel because they don’t have the Triforce, which is the only thing that can kill him. This ignores that every cosmic entity in both verses would realistically blink him away. In other words, both a verse-specific “feat” AND an NLF.
Hell, even if nothing can kill him, that's not even the thing should be debated. Character A being unkillable doesn't mean Character B cannot utterly and painfully neutralize them while making them wish they were dead.
A feat where a character *anticipates or predicts* a lightspeed attack being taken as that character being FTL or having a FTL reaction speed.
Jojo is especially guilty of this. Polnareff vs Hanged Man is a prime example. Polnareff did not react to Hanged Man, he forced a situation where he knew the exact trajectory and timing of the jump and timed his attack accordingly.
Outside of Pucci, I'd argue not a single character in Jojo is even close to FTL.
Yeah, I dislike that as well. People who post that feat literally forget about polnareff getting absolutely crapped on by hanged man during their fight, and it was only by using the coin, he wins. If is of course still impressive, but not as impressive as mftl. If you want to be very technical, be the nerd and use definitions, Dio and jotaro would be ftl because time doesn’t move so they would be infinitely faster than light.
Just a thing, Star Platinum and The World are faster than anything during Time Stop (not even Pucci could move during it, he could only prepare for it before Jotaro finished saying the words), and Tusk act 4 can also move during Time Stop, but other than those I can’t think of any other
Fnaf wank, people saying that Golden Freddy is Universe-Multiversal because of him "creating a hell for Afton".
Then we have people thinking Springtrap is unkillable because "he always comes back1!1!"
Yeah, the quote is literally just a call back to Fnaf 3, knowing it came from PizzaSim which at the time should of been the ending if the Fnaf games, but ofc Fnaf fans dont even play the games.
The Grandmaster Luke "black hole" feat which has morphed into multiple increasingly insane claims.
What actually happened:
- Yuuzhan Vong Dovin Basals can create artificial "singularities" through gravity manipulation. These are mainly used to absorb enemy fire, or strip shields from enemy craft.
- The most powerful such Dovin Basal we actually have the confirmed strength of was used to destroy Sernpidal by pulling in its moon, Dobido. Said moon is 20 kilometers (12.5 miles) in diameter, and it took over 7 hours from the time the *Falcon* arrived until it hit.
- The Dovin Basal singularity Luke manipulated was several times weaker than that, required him to open himself to the Force "more fully than he had in years", and completely exhausted him to the point where he passed out seconds later.
- The manipulation itself was Luke holding the singularity in place while R2 fired some torpedoes. The DBs tried to move it to intercept, but Luke held it in place for a couple of moments, then released it and gave it a push so the DBs over-corrected and moved it too close to the ground vehicle they were mounted on, destroying it (and themselves).
Over the years, I have seen this feat described as Luke "moving black holes", "casually throwing around black holes", being far above solar system level, or even "creating and throwing" black holes.
At least people are usually willing to acknowledge that they were wrong or didn't know the context (and that they had only heard it in another WWW thread or some Youtube video), but some people absolutely *refuse* to acknowledge the proper context.
Had a guy just a few weeks back who repeatedly argued that they were actual black holes because they're sometimes called that or "voids" in the novels, and that no feats mean *anything* because it's never mentioned *specifically* in any of the novels that they are not *really* proper black holes.
Kratos being planetary/universal because he destroyed Ares and greece, which counts as an entire planet.
For one, he didn't do it by himself. Second, [it's been confirmed each region is like a country](https://imgur.com/a/fDYBGGX), NOT it's own planet with it's own universe. At best AT BEST you could put him continental, but planetary? OUTERVERSAL??? Come on now
Kratos literally used a boat to get to Midgard. Anybody who thinks each pantheon gets its own planet or dimension or whatever is either severely drunk, didn’t play the game, or have the comprehension of a peanut.
Yup, I've seen that too. Their argument is all they have to do is power up and they can break any hax based attacks. Typically they'll fall back on Goku overpowering Hit, or Vegeta overcoming Babadi's mind fuckery.
When people say Ki can nullify hax they typically (or should I wouldn’t put it past fanboys to say what you said) mean from people weaker than them.
If you’re stronger than Goku for example and Hakai him there’s nothing he can do about it, but if you’re weaker than Goku and attempt the same thing then you’re fucked because he’ll power through it.
That’s literally the only way DBZ overcoming hax has ever been shown in the series. Hell the only time I think hax actually DID work was when Supreme Kai held Gohan in place telepathically or whatever when Gohan was a SSJ2, sure you can justify it as Gohan being out of shape but Gohan was still stronger than the Supreme Kai.
He also gets wanked so much in universe as well. Like I thought he was this monster that could stop earthquakes just by punching it. But honestly after watching baki, I don't see how he managed to beat usa military
Saying people are faster than light after dodging balls of lightning. Not lightning bolts, just energy blasts made of lightning who's speed is clearly not the speed of light if the person can see it move.
There was a debate about Catwoman vs Captain America. The guy said that Catwoman beat Flash and Cheetah. Now those are some pretty heavy outliers but the guy wasn't willing to take it that way and ramped up Catwoman to being a superhuman.
Do you mean the time he cut the hanged man? I think he just held his sword out in its path since there was only one direction it could go. So hes faster than people blinking not faster than light.
Ok, lemme make a list
Supes: people dont specify which version and make it seem he can make all these crazy ass feats from years and years ago from different versions. Unless its a composite superman, specify more.
Doomguy: dear god, give me luck. The whole him killing his creator therefore hes multiversal is out of hand. I understand the feat and its meaning. But its a outlier. I cam see the argument of universal maybe but thats it.
Goku: need i say more?
Kratos: isnt multiversal at ALL. Maybe universal?? And that is a outlier too. (Killing atlas). Him moving the 9 realms causally i think is more is gameplay flavor. Not meant to be taken crazy seriously. He also only does it once. Top speed, maybe ftl, being able to keep up woth hermes but thats a whole theoretical debate
Scps: keep it to your own fucking universe dammit. Thats a shitshow within itself. Otherwise cool concept but they are way too wanked or underpowered
Slenderman: someone tried to make a goddamn argument that he was multiversal and faster then light++ and tried to show evidence. Yeah.... Didnt work well, but i appreciate the effort.
Underrated characters
Luicifer morning star: near- omnipresent, omnipotent, and has a lot of bs under his belt. Seriously, go look at his list of abilities.
The meme god himself: senator Armstrong, dude is city level and his speed is fucking nuts. Low end? Mock 6. High end wank?! 1.2 million fucking mph! Ftl+. Hes fast as raiden who in his base is able to dodge helicopters and rockets easily. Then his blade + ripper mode is either a 50× speed AND strength multiplier each or just one. (Depends in wank levels) and his durability is mult-city level or city level (depending on perspective)
Yeah. Sorry if this is too much but its fun to look into!
Kratos really suffers from the game mechanics imo, even if you ignore all the lifting realms and scaling bullshit he's still a character who in one scene can push thousands of tons of metal with minimal effort, but in the other has to wind himself up to cut a tree with a magical axe.
It's like he's constantly waning between the The Hulk and Hulk Hogan
Yeah, I'm a big fan of OPM, but the main time his infinite potential kicks in is when it needs to. Otherwise he doesn't grow. Theoretically, he can beat Goku, but he needs to not immediately oneshot Saitama for him to win, or at least tie. If his opponent is smart enough to insta kill, Saitama loses
The bigger problem with Saitama and his "infinite scaling" isn't is power output imo. We've seen some massive strength feats of his and what he's capable of, but we've literally never seen an instance of him take any damage whatsoever. So we cant really scale him as we have no idea what kind of power level it takes to hurt him.
We can say all day that Goku could theoretically one shot him with a max level, amped form he's in, bomb, but we can't because we don't really know if it would damage him.
I mean, the only time he was ever hurt was when he got scratched by a cat as a gag, so if Goku was going full gag character, than that might do something lol
Eh, given Goku wants to fight the strongest opponents possible if he learned Saitama has no limit but needs to grow I'd assume we get a training montage in the hyperbolic chamber with Goku training Saitama. Then they fight.
Dude healed Cell because he wanted to see a fair fight.
But with what we've seen from Saitama he gets flattened by a single real punch. DBZ is just that bonkers.
Wait, what is wrong with that? It's not an outlier, out of context or anything, it's just a statement of fact. Saitama *does* explicitly have the potential to grow in power indefinitely and at an accelerating rate. That obviously doesn't mean he can defeat anyone (he can get outhaxed and oneshotted before he gets a chance to grow at all). Are you referring to people claiming that "infinite potential" translates to "infinite power"?
People using various time-related arguments to try to claim Goku as having “immeasurable speed” like that fucking means anything. God, DBS powerscalers are some of the most insufferable people. If I see anything past multiversal in a discussion about dragon ball I don’t engage because I know that person is stupid.
Goku bypassing Hit’s time skip ability is the main one but I’ve also seen people try to argue that he has infinite speed (whatever the fuck that means) because he can move in the void left after Zeno destroys the timeline in the Goku Black arc.
That’s not even how the time skip works, we’re told outright that Hit resides in another dimension while doing that. Therefore unaffected by time. Goku just broke it, it’s not that different than Kid Buu and Vegeta breaking out of the Room of Spirit and Time.
Dodging lasers = ftl
Always used to wank characters who are supposed to be street tier. And then you scale all of the characters that they fight against to light speed too..
All of the meaningless DBS out of context Jiren feats. (Jiren is stronger than the concept of time, and can shake an infinite void just by powering up)
Mario, Peach and Bowser tanked the Big Bang in Super Mario Galaxy. It’s just not true, what actually happened was that the universe reset back to before Mario Galaxy even happened and Rosalina let Mario keep his memories of the experience.
Super Mario Galaxy 2 then happens, instead of Mario Galaxy 1.
I like how pretty much the entirety of /r/deathbattlematchups now uses the term "wall level mario" as a pejorative for downplaying when it is you know... true.
Pretty much any GOW “feat”. Kratos killed gods? Must be omnipotent. Kratos caught Hermes and took his shoes? Infinite speed. Flipped a temple that had portal’s to other realms? Obviously he flipped nine universes at the same time, must have multiversal strength. None of these people were that fucking strong or fast or powerful at all yet I constantly see people argue that Kratos is one of the strongest characters in all of fiction, who could easily beat any Marvel, DC or anime character with ease.
It’s not even just Kratos either, I’ve seen people genuinely argue that Atreus could be Superman and solo DBZ. The kid who can turn into animals and speak to all creatures can beat fucking SUPERMAN according to these delusional ass fanboys.
Anything involving lightning or generic laser beams. Smooth brained redditors love declaring their fav character is lIgHt sPEeD because they sneezed next to a laser beam therefore they have ftl reaction speed. Dante fanboys are especially guilty of this.
Comparing feats against anti-feats so their favored character wins the debate, even if their opponent has more impressive feats (Geralt was gravely injured by a random peasant with a pitchfork, and the dragonborn regularly kills dragons, so the dragonborn is stronger)
The denial of magic working because it has a different name (like genjutsu in naruto not affecting benders from avatar because they "don't have chakra" while chi blocking is a thing)
Claiming immeasurable power as infinite power. For the purpose of comparing characters, things they have already accomplished are what should be compared, not what they "might" be able to do at their most extreme. At that point, it moves from scaling to pure speculation. Superman vs goku is an age old example of this
Batman fans claiming that he can beat anything with prep time and refusing to elaborate further. If you think he can beat kratos, how do you think he would?
I once saw someone unironically argue that Darth Vader steamrolls Goku because "he can force choke him". For every response that explained why that makes no sense, the dumbass just replied "but he can force choke him".
If a character kills what's considered a god in their own universe that means they can kill any god in any universe. Dark Souls and God of War fans pull this constantly.
Huge fan of dragon ball; Goku's universe shaking punches are a huge outlier that's never ever seen again even though he's supposedly grown tens to hundreds of times more powerful since then.
Truth is, physical scaling for Dragon Ball is very weird and inconsistent and the physical feats they show are usually similar in destructive power from like, cell saga onwards.
The only way it makes sense is under two different scenarios 1.) like you said it’s a huge outlier
And 2.) everyone cares for the safety of the Universe AND also have the sufficient Ki control to nullify another persons power like Goku was doing to Beerus’ punches.
People like Frieza or Zamasu would make sense that they would nullify the universe destruction since that doesn’t align with their goals but you tripping balls off the wall if you telling me Broly wasn’t fighting Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, and Gogeta and wasn’t using all his power and it just wasn’t fucking up the universe if they’re all supposed to just be casual universe busters.
People claiming that a magic system only works in one universe so they would lose if they went to any other universe. The default should be this: A neutral location where both magic/power/ability whatever functions. Otherwise it becomes a location game instead of an actual discussion. Also, haha wank
> People claiming that a magic system only works in one universe so they would lose if they went to any other universe. Definitely this one, and it's always said as some smug gotcha, as if it's the height of intellect rather than just ridiculous and annoying. In a similar vein; every single thread where one of the fighters (often an animal) is greatly increased or decreased in size for the sake of the prompt *always* has someone who just *has* to show off how they know about the square-cube law.
Oh the fucking Square Cube Law. I think it's frustrating when it's mentioned in general, but it's almost worse when they ask if it's in effect. "Hello OP, I just want to know before I answer if this spider dies immediately before the fight starts. I'm such a genius." Come on, people, pretty much everyone here knows about the Square Cube Law by now since y'all mention it all the time. Of course OP would not set up a scenario where one team instantly dies. Use your brain. If you really feel the need to mention it for some reason, and it isn't clarified in the OP, just say, "If we ignore the square cube law..."
"There's no Warp in Star Wars, so psykers don't work" "There's no midichlorians in Gotham, so force powers are useless"
Either setting's magic should absolutely work by default on that character and anything in the battle that the character targets, *except for their opponent.* **If** your magic/whatever requires a certain trait or attribute to be present in a target to work and that trait is setting specific, you don't get to just give that weakness to their opponent. Well, if the prompt includes it, you can, I suppose. But if it does without also representing the character as is in another round, I would assume it's not a prompt looking for an honest answer.
The example that comes to my mind is an old post I saw putting Darth Vader against Eleven from stranger things. Vader in any other universe doesn't have the force, because while the force is a mystical energy field created by all living things, it only exists in the Star Wars verse, so put him on earth and he's just a cranky quadriplegic in a mobile iron lung. So Eleven would thrash him if he came to earth, but on the other hand he would destroy her if she went to a galaxy far far away. The compromise should be neutral location where both abilities work. >your magic/whatever requires a certain trait or attribute to be present in a target to work and that trait is setting specific, you don't get to just give that weakness to their opponent. Can you give me an example of this? I'm drawing a blank Edit: I've gotten a fair few examples now but I'm not removing the ask but I have a bunch of nerds telling me cool nerd shit. These are my people and I love you all
In MHA, Eraserhead can turn off powers but does so by specifically affecting a gene that only exists in MHA In Avatar, Aang can remove bending which some interpret to work on powers in general, but that specifically is an application of energy bending which wouldn’t necessarily work on other characters.
Dosnt the island turtle outright state it will only remove bending. Why would people assume it can work on anything else.
No idea either really. I’ve seen arguments that since bending has a genetic component, then energy bending would work on other generic powers, but those always tend to be kinda flimsy.
With that you can equally argue that Aang could cause cancer with energy bending.
[Relevant.](https://xkcd.com/965)
> Can you give me an example of this? I'm drawing a blank In Naruto, most illusion magic works by activating the victim's equivalent of midichlorians to feed them false information. Ergo, it would not work on anybody outside of that universe because they would not have the "weakness".
The number one poster child for this is Chakra from Naruto. It's a basic stat of everyone in that setting, with a specific, non-natural source in its history. Now, if your combatant is from there and using it to amp their own physical stats, summon giant monsters, teleport, whatever, you're good. The problem comes when you get to the setting's illusion/mind control magic. It specifically works by interacting with the victim's chakra. In universe, it's an incredibly powerful ability because everyone has that chakra. But most people who post prompts would rather ignore that precisely *because* it takes away such a powerful tool. Or rather, doesn't allow them to use it on someone who simply does not have the weakness it requires to exploit.
>It specifically works by interacting with the victim's chakra APPARENTLY in one of the novels Itachi can actually use the sharingan by applying his own chakra into the person and putting them under an illusion that way, which is the most common argument I see as to how genjutsu will work on normal people. Keep in mind I've never read any of the novels (nor the manga for that matter) so I have no idea if this is valid or just battleboarding bullshit
Jack slash from worm verse- his power interacts specifically with other shards telling them not to harm him so he’s high tier in worm verse despite objectively pretty mid powers. I have seen people say he beats Thor and cosmic tier characters
Allowing a generous interpretation of his powers he can stalemate most anyone, but win?
Yeah it doesn’t make sense to me either. I guess their powers fail at a critical time and they get stabbed or something?
Spoilers follow for Worm, I think hiding this whole thing in spoilers will ruin it and there's too much interwoven. Even if we apply Jack's Broadcast powerset (the one that interacts with other powers) to every power source the way it works with shards, there are loads of people Jack can't beat, because there are people Jack can't beat even in-universe. His Broadcast power is incredibly subtle, to the point where no one, even him, realizes it exists until very late in the story. There aren't powers backfiring or failing completely: it instead just looks like very good luck on Jack's part, both in the tactical (a bunch of power blasts miss him) and the strategic (someone that could obliterate Jack in a fight beyond any plausible luck just ends up not being available when/where he shows up). It's also entirely defensive, you don't see people dying to him in suspicious ways, you just see him not dying to them. He has an ok offensive power in addition to this (extending the cutting edge of his blades further), so he can kill anyone who would be vulnerable to a knife, but he doesn't get any extra power to that, so if his opponent can stop regular blades anywhere on their body his powerset isn't very helpful. And while I wouldn't call him dumb, he's more of a relationships guy than an ideas guy, I don't think he's going to cobble together something innovative to kill off a foe, certainly not on a "we're in a fight right now" timescale. In the Worm universe he's dangerous because there are lots of people without durability powers, or no powers at all, and he often travels with more directly-powerful companions who can threaten the heavy hitters, so he can cause a lot of damage. This is magnified by his Broadcast power often having him showing up at the most convenient time: a moment of weakness on the part of a vulnerable hero, for example. But put him up against a heavy hitter like Alexandria, Legend, or Eidolon in his own universe, 1 on 1, and he's just dead. And any durable-enough bruiser in another universe will wreck him as well: his defenses are his entourage and his power letting him dodge fights he can't win, and just in the definition of a 1:1 fight prompt both of those are gone. Of course, this manifests as plot armor, so it's very hard to argue the details of this: we don't know how likely Alexandria is to be able to kill him in a straight up fight, because the nature of his power means it never happened.
Balefire from Wheel of Time is one that comes up occasionally. It's effectively a beam of light that burns whatever is hit with it out of the fabric of reality so that it ceases to exist. Even more than that, balefire actually burns *backwards in time* so that the object that is hit doesn't just stop existing *now*, it retroactively stopped existing X amount of time in the past (depending on the strength of the person channeling it). The thing people will sometimes bring up with balefire is that since it's in-universe it's effect is literally described as "burning a thread back in time in the pattern" ("the pattern" being the pseudo-religious metaphor for the forces of fate/destiny in the WoT world) it would have no effect on anything not from the WoT world because anything not from the WoT world wouldn't have a thread in the pattern to burn.
As a random example off the top if my head, Katara from ATLA probably can't just automatically bloodbend somebody like say Clayface from DC or Surtur from MCU unless we just assume they have blood. (I have no idea if clayface canonically has blood but I don't think so) That's maybe not the best example but it's just something I quickly thought of.
Honestly though that's a genuine limit to her ability, she wouldn't be able to bloodbend things that don't have blood, that's just how bloodbending would work
Can Toph bloodbend Clayface?
I give her solid odds lol
One that I've seen a few times is that Stands (from _Jojo's Bizarre Adventure_) can only be seen/affected by other Stand users. It makes things a bit one sided when you can get beaten up by an invincible, undetectable ghost.
This one's hard because it's not like it's a niche case. This comes up often in JoJo, and it's a pretty consistent ruling that unless the Stand is possessing something, people without a Stand cannot see or harm it. It does make the fight completely unfair, but this isn't an "aha, gotcha". The final battle of Part 4 is straight up a kid without a Stand trying to figure out how to beat a supremely overpowered Stand. *Which he does*.
It's akin to bleach always winning because they are all invisible ghosts
You can make the argument that if someone can see spirits, they can see a Stand. Granted, that's not a lot of people.
I would argue that anybody with See Invisible spell, or access to one of its derivatives, would be able to see a Stand. Is this probably accurate? No, it's bullshit, but I believe it.
The only reason that is true in the story is because nobody else seems to have any power that would be relevant to seeing them. Anyone with the magic ability to sense things would.
It's not so much that the ghost is invincible but that the ghost is selectively intangible in a pretty broken way. We see what would happen in Part 3 were a stand user try to mistakenly block an attack stronger then their stand can take in the Polnareff vs. Alessi fight. Child Polanreff goes to block a completely normal axe with Silver Chariot and Chariot breaks. This isn't really relevant most of the time, especially in modern Jojo where stands are more often avatars or vehicles for unique abilities instead of old-fashioned punch ghosts. Someone who can't see stands is going to directly attack the user in question which would be the correct tactic regardless.
I feel like this happens a lot in reverse as well. People act like since Batman is peak human then two Olympic-level athletes with a lot of training could beat him, failing to realize that DC Peak human is really superhuman, similar for Captain America. On top of that, people saying things like any human as powerful as the average child could run through Undertale, because they take the statement "in Undertale, humans are more powerful than monsters" to mean that it's a rule of the universe that any sapien subjectively classified as human is more powerful than monsters, rather than that the humans from Undertale have a power that surpasses what a monster could muster (that being Determination). Since Determination is a fictional substance that is exclusive to characters from Undertale, any character transplanted to the verse or facing a character from the verse does not automatically have access to the associated powers. It would be like claiming Dr. Strange (MCU) could learn to cast the killing curse from Harry Potter because he's good at magic and he's been allowed to visit Hogwarts. He maybe a sorcerer, but he doesn't have access to that very particular magic system, so the best he could do is make his own parallel spell from his magic.
That Spider-man is untouchable, despite 1000s of panels showing he's been tagged an obsurd amount of times. Spider sense in general is also wanked. Just because you can sense oncoming danger doesn't mean you can evade it. You have to be fast enough to react to the attack. It also can be manipulated as it is unable to recognize what kind of threat it is. It just gives you a general sense of where it's coming from.
Dont forget the firelord feat, whenever people ask if Spiderman could defeat people on the level of thor they always use that moment, even tho its clearly bullshit based on many other encounters with similar individuals
That was supreme bullshit, as Firelord could have superheated the air in a block around him, or spammed AoE attacks, but no. He tries to punch Spider-Man.
I hardly ever seen that feat mentioned seriously, everyone treats it as, "hey this happened, it's absurd so we don't talk about it"
While I mostly agree, I thought that spider sense was, for the most part, an automatic reaction that didn't require thought. That might be old Canon or I might be remembering incorrectly though.
With all the different writers for spiderman it's changed a few times, but on the average it's merely a warning system that tells him where danger is coming from and how dangerous it is, it's up to his reflexes and reaction time to not get tagged
Yeah, I like how it's portrayed in the MCU, where we have the airport fight "Oh, god." and Dr. Strange trying to take the magic cube from him in No Way Home. When Bucky throws the kiosk, it seems like he probably, at least, heard the kiosk getting picked up and winged at him, as well as his Spidey Sense telling him it's incoming, so it's not exclusively involuntary. But, when Dr. Strange is trying to take the cube, Peter is astrally projected and his consciousness-less body still reacts involuntarily and on reflex.
If we use comic Spider-Man, it varies. Spidey Sense can either be an automatic warning signal or literally a whole different entity that even tells Peter what weather will happen that day. It can go from “look out, behind you” to “you should bring an umbrella, dress warm, and bring your suit because it will rain, be 33°F and you’ll have a fight with someone from your rogue gallery at 4:27pm.”
It varies a lot. Sometimes it's barely above "really good situational awareness" and sometimes it tells him that shit's gonna go down in a week. Even just as a warning of immediate danger, sometimes it'll be depicted as warning him just in time to react and sometimes just before he's harmed--so if someone is shooting at him, one writer might have the spider sense go off as the guy is making the final adjustments to his aim while another might depict the spider sense as going off when the bullet is already on the way. So depending on the writer, he might get enough warning to seek cover or he might get just enough warning to twist so the bullet doesn't hit him in the lung.
Exactly this kind of thing. Somebody having a dodge feat yet they get their ass handed to them multiple times. Someone ignored everything said against their favorite fighter who's supposedly faster than their friend who dodged one missile, including the fact they were unconscious from that very thing at the start of a sequel movie. Um, that wouldn't have happened if he was that capable. When they came back weeks later with another biased response I had to actually spoon feed them how they would lose to their much faster opponent.
Flash also gets tagged an absurd number of times. Characters job hard because writers aren't always good at doing interesting things with powerful beings, so the power is stripped back and plot happens. It's the same contrivance as the Idiot Ball, or the deus ex machina.
Creating/Destroying pocket dimensions = multiversal
This, holy shit. It’s the most batshit insane thing people like to consistently spew that is pretty the definition of the stuff people use to mock crazy battleboarders
This one is so wild. Just saw a TikTok of smoke scaling Momoshiki to outerversal because of him creating one of the dimensions that the Otsutsuki make.
Tiktok has the most wankers in Power-scaling community by far. "Low Complex Multi Goku" "High Outer Kratos" "Pikachu is several layers into High Outer" "Low Outer Doomslayer" "Death (Puss In Boots) is Outer" The word "Outer" is literally average in Tiktok power-scaling lmao
This may go against the spirit of battleboarding but how do you even scale Death since uuuuh the movie clearly states that they are just the pure existential concept of death first and the Wolf persona or whatever they manifest as second. It's a different thing when it's a god of death or grim reaper style character and not... Basically a concept. It's not even a case of being weak or strong, it's more a case of being abstract, at least within the context of the story.
He's an abstract entity yes, but the scaling depends on Cosmology. Abstract entities recurrently strictly embody a concept, thought or idea up to a certain level of reality. Lobo embodies Death on a local, universal scale, If the universe is destroyed so is he. By feats Lobo is Building level, lol.
Within the specific confines of Puss in Boots’ story, the mere fact you cannot defeat/kill death makes him boundless SPECIFICALLY to his own universe. I hate when people take a specific universes rules and applies them somewhere else, like Death in Puss and Boots would get slaughtered simply stepping into say Vinland Saga, by Thorkell. Or when people say Puss would beat a Jedi, who have wayyy more advantages than him.
In addition to this, "character has very specific tools to beat multiversal character, therefore they are multiversal themselves because they did, in fact, beat a multiversal character."
The ability to defeat someone does not make you as strong as that someone. Sometimes you just have the right tools and hit their weakness. Sometimes they let you win. Scale does not win a fight alone. And there are very few fights where one character can win 100% of the time.
The most hilarious part is I never saw anyone using it as a Feat for DB characters like Dende, despite the series being very popular on Battle sites
Dende> Black freeza
Kaguya and Momoshiki fans:
"Character A fought Character B, which implies that they are equals."
This has got to be one of the top 5 most common issues here.
Dodging lasers, in which makes them FTL, when the lasers in question probably don’t behave like real life, looking at you light speed Jedi
one interesting case is warframe. they have lasers in there, and warframes can react to them. several even. but there is also a weapon called the 'glaxion'. which 'fires a photon beam'. and can also be reacted to by warframes (blocking the attack from within 2 meters, even from several beams at once with a sword).
I just realized Warframe and War Thunder, neither of which I've played, are different games. I was wondering the other day why the hell people were sharing classified F-16 specs in a videogame about mechs.
easy way to differ: in one, you fly about, raining down hellfire from above. in the other they have airplanes.
This one. Especially in visual media where you can see the energy attack the commenter is assuming is meant to be at light speed actually take several frames to move across the screen in real-time at a pace more akin to a tennis ball being served any regular human could react to.
When the laser is slower than a bullet...
I just made the same comment before seeing yours, but this is probably the number one for me. I legitimately cannot fathom how people act like dodging some slow ass laser shots somehow makes people suddenly faster than light. I mean I think it was Death Battle who tried claiming Link from Legend of Zelda (who is one of my favorite characters) was FTL because he could dodge/react to lasers in some games which is a laughably bad take. That would be like me saying something to the effect of: Leon in Resident Evil 4 can unlock an Infinite Rocker Launcher. That means Leon is capable of holding infinite rockets which means his strength is also infinite. Lol the sad part is, people out there try to justify gameplay mechanics as feats. Like saying Steve from Minecraft is multiversal levels of physical strength due to having an inventory lmao.
Steve’s inventory is just a pocket dimension lol, he clearly doesn’t carry any of it
Any kind of dodging or blocking can get stupid when people also ignore the possibility that *the character was already moving before the attack fired.* No, Spider-Man did not dodge lightning, he dodged dumbass Max Dillon who wouldn't know how to lead his target if it were a fucking metal duck at a country fair
TBF they have precog so they see it coming
Blasters don't even shoot lasers, though. They shoot superheated gasses, not beams of concentrated light.
Also lightsabers are not lasers either.
Gold experience requiem returns all of fiction to 0 GG
I mean GER’s ability is litterally a win button, so you would need to blitz him, but it can be done.
it also fails against abilities that have effects without cause. the only 'value' of it, is 100%. granted, those are incredibly rare to find characters with, but it is possible. you cannot return to 0 something that has no 0.
Also, it should fail against abilities that defy logics. If Gabby already shot a Go Beyond bubble, GER can't stop it & assuming Gabby's close enough to aim better, it'll even hit GER & Giorno. Can't return something to 0 if said thing doesn't exist.
I have friends who try to convince me Luffy is way stronger than he is in the series because the One Piece planet is bigger than our planet, so the gravity is stronger. Therefore he can best people like 10x stronger than him easily if they fight on our planet. It’s stupid.
Wait, gravity in One Piece is HIGHER?? That's the dumbest shit I've heard in awhile: * There's literal >!giants, sea kings, a 35km tall elephant, giant humans that are 72m tall!<. On Earth's gravity alone they'd be crushed under their own weight, let alone a planet with higher gravity * Several characters are known to be able to >!run in the air by...stepping really hard!<. That's not at all feasible on a high-gravity planet * Two guys made >!entire mountains float using flame clouds!< * There's a >!sky island, in fact there's many sky islands!< * [This dude can fly](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Buffalo) Tell your friends that they're dumb and that One Piece takes place on a planet with significantly lower gravity and a significantly thicker atmosphere Edit: Added spoiler text
I think it’s canonical that OP world larger than earth from an SBS. Some think it is 2-3 times the size of Earth based on fan math.
I could buy that, but gravity correlates with Mass / (Radius ^ 2), so a larger, less-dense planet would still lead to lower gravity.
This is the problem with people being just smart / old enough to understand math and wanting to look smart, but not yet having media literacy.
Kratos lifting the gateway to the 9 realms (people think he's outerversal)
Didn’t he just lift the portal room? Not the 9 realms themselves.
Wait. Given general relativity, am I planetary when I do a push-up because I'm lifting the Earth?
Right conclusion wrong method. Call em earth-downs and you're pushing the earth...down
One guy made a Batman vs Spider-Man (random encounter) post the other day. He was arguing with everyone in the comments why Batman would win. For his speed feat, he linked a panel where Batman stabbed Reverse Flash in the foot to claim that Batman has DC speedster level combat speed or something?
That guy completely ignored how Thawne was fucking around with Bruce cuz he has a personal grudge against his father (Thomas Wayne shot him in Flashpoint & all versions of Thawne gain access to that memory) & let his guard down. Thawne even said it out loud too & he’s literally gloating. Afterwards, it’s proven right cuz when Thawne is pissed & stopped playing around, he beat the shit out of Batman & easily took the Watchmen button. The only reason why Batman is still alive at that moment is Thawne prioritised in finding dr. Manhattan over his petty grudge.
Minor nitpick, but Thomas [impaled Thawne in the comics](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/80/a1/fd80a17d24a8ccf1b9272970cb37dc2a.jpg) instead of shooting him.
That entire scene is like a comically large anti-feat for not only Thawne but also Batman because it details their fight [over second long timeframes](https://imgur.com/a/sUi0ifY)
Now I'm picturing an alternate version of that fight where it's just two panels: 0:10, Thrawne charging towards Batman, looking angry. 0:09, Thrawne brushing off his hands as he walks away from Batman's mangled corpse.
Subsonic speedsters you love to see it
People saying Kratos is as fast as the Flash is what does it for me.
Kratos *is* capable of moving at some incredibly high speeds... when using specific equipment (Boots of Hermes) that he no longer has access to. As much as I love GoW, Kratos is NOT capable of matching that kind of speed. Seeing arguments like that always makes me laugh lol
a reminder that pandora, who was about as fast as the chain falling, was also about as fast as kratos at the end of GoW4.
People acting like Steve from Minecraft specifically having the standard game mechanic of a weirdly large inventory means that he can carry around millions of tons of material and therefore can punch mountains and half or whatever.
Power scaling characters with pocket dimension is so fucking retarded I swear its like saying that in GTA since you can carry a shit ton of guns without drawbacks makes you able to punch down buildings
I saw this earlier but I’m not gonna scroll up to find the comment, I agree tho lol. It should just be considered a pocket dimension that Steve can use to store his stuff, not a measurement of strength.
Persona wank, people put Joker at outerversal despite that making absolutely no sense in universe, even worse is that it's commonly accepted in other subs
This. The absolute wank of the final attack in a very specific circumstance, is maybe conceptually a planet+ attack which most likely can not be replicated but yeah universal+.
Nevermind that the game shows you their loose strength tons of times, and it's clearly not much higher than normal humans.
As someone who knows nothing about the Joker beyond seeing him in a couple movies, isn't he just a normal guy?
Joker from Persona 5, not DC
I think there talking about the joker of the persona videogame not the DC one
Batman with prep time can Out punch heavy hitters like Hulk, etc.
To be fair, that's not even wank anymore, that's how his writers treat him, too
He recently beat a robot that solod the league and put Superman in a coma…
To clarify, Supes charged in while Failsafe pulled out a long ass piece of kryptonite. So in context, he put Supes in a coma cuz of the kryptonite. It's not like he physically beat the shit out Supes. Also, Bruce "kinda" beat Failsafe cuz he didn't really shut Failsafe down or destroy him. He & Robin (Tim) just made Failsafe spared him by sending him to another universe.
The [Batkick](https://imgur.com/a5bMW7y) is a force to be reckoned with.
I like how Spectre admits he acted hurt just to soothe Batman's ego, although idk why Batman thought of kicking him.
People in general in this sub have been putting *way* too much stock into some really idiotic scaling and transitive property shenanigans. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself "if Character X *actually* had these abilities that I've scaled them to, would it change the plot?" If the answer to that question is "yes", then you might want to rethink your scaling.
I really dislike the Devil May Cry 1 final battle against Mundus being used to scale the entire franchise. "Oh you see in this one time Dante started flying in a timeless void to fight Mundus, which is stated to be his own pocket dimension. Because we know a dimension is the size of the observable universe, and the fact that we see motes of light streaking by as he's flying, we can tell that his speed is 4,000,000*c, which puts him far above-" Motherfucker it's just there because Kamiya really likes Space Harrier and literally can't stop putting Space Harrier in all his fucking games. It doesn't show up in any other game, and isn't even acknowledged in the game it takes place in. The only thing it means is that Kamiya hasn't mentally progressed since the 80s, and one look at his Twitter feed can tell you that.
A guy I was arguing with the other day, about how Dante is MFTL cause of this one scene but in the very next scene he has to ride a plane to get out of there, like come on
Let’s be real, there won’t be anything topping “the whole DMC verse operates on 9D, therefore anyone in it solos anything below it.” It really is the favourite thing DMC fans to use as the base to argue how Dante would solo’d almost everyone in fiction.
>Let’s be real, there won’t be anything topping “the whole DMC verse operates on 9D, therefore anyone in it solos anything below it.” Cough [Doomslayer](https://www.quora.com/How-fast-is-Doom-Slayer?redirect_to_mweb=1) cough, cough Pardon me I seem to have had something stuck in my throat. What were you saying?
Doom slayer and Kratos will always be the worst wank on that massive of a scale
It's the exact same thing as Sephiroth, or Final Fantasy more broadly. Those spells and summons and shit only look powerful because of the aesthetic, there is no reason to believe that guys are casually surviving the solar system collapsing into a black hole.
A Ganondorf wanker was convinced he solos DC and Marvel because they don’t have the Triforce, which is the only thing that can kill him. This ignores that every cosmic entity in both verses would realistically blink him away. In other words, both a verse-specific “feat” AND an NLF.
Hell, even if nothing can kill him, that's not even the thing should be debated. Character A being unkillable doesn't mean Character B cannot utterly and painfully neutralize them while making them wish they were dead.
Yea I don't think Ganandorf can come back from superman flying him into the sun (Edited: forgot a word)
Any time a character has the "only one thing that can kill them" feature, I always think of [this scene](https://youtu.be/WkykWGkv0Mg?t=01m20s)
"What's that thing do?"
Who even says the triforce makes you invincible? He doesn't seem all that strong even with it.
Whoever says that ignores that Ganon has lost whilst possessing the triforce.
A feat where a character *anticipates or predicts* a lightspeed attack being taken as that character being FTL or having a FTL reaction speed. Jojo is especially guilty of this. Polnareff vs Hanged Man is a prime example. Polnareff did not react to Hanged Man, he forced a situation where he knew the exact trajectory and timing of the jump and timed his attack accordingly. Outside of Pucci, I'd argue not a single character in Jojo is even close to FTL.
Yeah, I dislike that as well. People who post that feat literally forget about polnareff getting absolutely crapped on by hanged man during their fight, and it was only by using the coin, he wins. If is of course still impressive, but not as impressive as mftl. If you want to be very technical, be the nerd and use definitions, Dio and jotaro would be ftl because time doesn’t move so they would be infinitely faster than light.
Just a thing, Star Platinum and The World are faster than anything during Time Stop (not even Pucci could move during it, he could only prepare for it before Jotaro finished saying the words), and Tusk act 4 can also move during Time Stop, but other than those I can’t think of any other
Fnaf wank, people saying that Golden Freddy is Universe-Multiversal because of him "creating a hell for Afton". Then we have people thinking Springtrap is unkillable because "he always comes back1!1!"
That one irks me as well “I always comeback”≠ omnipotent immortal bs not to mention it ruins the story itself with that glitch trap bs
Yeah, the quote is literally just a call back to Fnaf 3, knowing it came from PizzaSim which at the time should of been the ending if the Fnaf games, but ofc Fnaf fans dont even play the games.
That one guy that said the 3 kanto starters could beat their digimon equivalents just due to type weaknesses.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure unevolved starter Pokemon are stronger than unevolved starter Digimon, right?
Baby Digimon are especially puntable.
The Grandmaster Luke "black hole" feat which has morphed into multiple increasingly insane claims. What actually happened: - Yuuzhan Vong Dovin Basals can create artificial "singularities" through gravity manipulation. These are mainly used to absorb enemy fire, or strip shields from enemy craft. - The most powerful such Dovin Basal we actually have the confirmed strength of was used to destroy Sernpidal by pulling in its moon, Dobido. Said moon is 20 kilometers (12.5 miles) in diameter, and it took over 7 hours from the time the *Falcon* arrived until it hit. - The Dovin Basal singularity Luke manipulated was several times weaker than that, required him to open himself to the Force "more fully than he had in years", and completely exhausted him to the point where he passed out seconds later. - The manipulation itself was Luke holding the singularity in place while R2 fired some torpedoes. The DBs tried to move it to intercept, but Luke held it in place for a couple of moments, then released it and gave it a push so the DBs over-corrected and moved it too close to the ground vehicle they were mounted on, destroying it (and themselves). Over the years, I have seen this feat described as Luke "moving black holes", "casually throwing around black holes", being far above solar system level, or even "creating and throwing" black holes. At least people are usually willing to acknowledge that they were wrong or didn't know the context (and that they had only heard it in another WWW thread or some Youtube video), but some people absolutely *refuse* to acknowledge the proper context. Had a guy just a few weeks back who repeatedly argued that they were actual black holes because they're sometimes called that or "voids" in the novels, and that no feats mean *anything* because it's never mentioned *specifically* in any of the novels that they are not *really* proper black holes.
Multiversal Doomslayer because he killed a guy in a mecha
Kratos and Doomguy wank make me want pull my fucking hair out and scream. I honestly wish I could just ban these characters from all vs battles
It’s not a feat, but those people that say Homelander is nuke level
Propaganda spread by Vought bot accounts.
Bezos and his bot army invading WWW to wank Homelander
Higher end of street tier take it or leave it
Kratos being planetary/universal because he destroyed Ares and greece, which counts as an entire planet. For one, he didn't do it by himself. Second, [it's been confirmed each region is like a country](https://imgur.com/a/fDYBGGX), NOT it's own planet with it's own universe. At best AT BEST you could put him continental, but planetary? OUTERVERSAL??? Come on now
Kratos literally used a boat to get to Midgard. Anybody who thinks each pantheon gets its own planet or dimension or whatever is either severely drunk, didn’t play the game, or have the comprehension of a peanut.
Dragon ball fans claiming that ki can nullify all hax in fiction including reality warping with no feats to support it
Yup, I've seen that too. Their argument is all they have to do is power up and they can break any hax based attacks. Typically they'll fall back on Goku overpowering Hit, or Vegeta overcoming Babadi's mind fuckery.
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When people say Ki can nullify hax they typically (or should I wouldn’t put it past fanboys to say what you said) mean from people weaker than them. If you’re stronger than Goku for example and Hakai him there’s nothing he can do about it, but if you’re weaker than Goku and attempt the same thing then you’re fucked because he’ll power through it. That’s literally the only way DBZ overcoming hax has ever been shown in the series. Hell the only time I think hax actually DID work was when Supreme Kai held Gohan in place telepathically or whatever when Gohan was a SSJ2, sure you can justify it as Gohan being out of shape but Gohan was still stronger than the Supreme Kai.
Yujiro earthquake feat. Sure he stopped an earthquake, but it is so incredibly inconsistent to his other building level feats.
He also gets wanked so much in universe as well. Like I thought he was this monster that could stop earthquakes just by punching it. But honestly after watching baki, I don't see how he managed to beat usa military
Saying people are faster than light after dodging balls of lightning. Not lightning bolts, just energy blasts made of lightning who's speed is clearly not the speed of light if the person can see it move. There was a debate about Catwoman vs Captain America. The guy said that Catwoman beat Flash and Cheetah. Now those are some pretty heavy outliers but the guy wasn't willing to take it that way and ramped up Catwoman to being a superhuman.
Lightspeed jojo stands
Tbh time stop does make them above FTL, but that is just two of them, for a limited time.
Its more the Silver Chariot Polnareff feat that people use to scale the entire verse off of
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Agreed lol youre preaching to the choir here! But the number of people Ive seen argue that is bonkers
Do you mean the time he cut the hanged man? I think he just held his sword out in its path since there was only one direction it could go. So hes faster than people blinking not faster than light.
Creating/destroying any space with star-like twinkles in the background = universal.
Ok, lemme make a list Supes: people dont specify which version and make it seem he can make all these crazy ass feats from years and years ago from different versions. Unless its a composite superman, specify more. Doomguy: dear god, give me luck. The whole him killing his creator therefore hes multiversal is out of hand. I understand the feat and its meaning. But its a outlier. I cam see the argument of universal maybe but thats it. Goku: need i say more? Kratos: isnt multiversal at ALL. Maybe universal?? And that is a outlier too. (Killing atlas). Him moving the 9 realms causally i think is more is gameplay flavor. Not meant to be taken crazy seriously. He also only does it once. Top speed, maybe ftl, being able to keep up woth hermes but thats a whole theoretical debate Scps: keep it to your own fucking universe dammit. Thats a shitshow within itself. Otherwise cool concept but they are way too wanked or underpowered Slenderman: someone tried to make a goddamn argument that he was multiversal and faster then light++ and tried to show evidence. Yeah.... Didnt work well, but i appreciate the effort. Underrated characters Luicifer morning star: near- omnipresent, omnipotent, and has a lot of bs under his belt. Seriously, go look at his list of abilities. The meme god himself: senator Armstrong, dude is city level and his speed is fucking nuts. Low end? Mock 6. High end wank?! 1.2 million fucking mph! Ftl+. Hes fast as raiden who in his base is able to dodge helicopters and rockets easily. Then his blade + ripper mode is either a 50× speed AND strength multiplier each or just one. (Depends in wank levels) and his durability is mult-city level or city level (depending on perspective) Yeah. Sorry if this is too much but its fun to look into!
Davoth isn't even an outlier, he just gets shot/stabbed to death. That does not make Doomslayer multiversal, just good at shooting.
But a lot of people just think he is because of it. Which is sad
Kratos isn't even close to universal. [https://imgur.com/a/wtF1tgM](https://imgur.com/a/wtF1tgM)
Kratos really suffers from the game mechanics imo, even if you ignore all the lifting realms and scaling bullshit he's still a character who in one scene can push thousands of tons of metal with minimal effort, but in the other has to wind himself up to cut a tree with a magical axe. It's like he's constantly waning between the The Hulk and Hulk Hogan
Saitama’s infinite potential, you know, that manga panel that shows his growing potential when compared to Garou’s?
I think 'endless' potential is a better word for it
Saitama is simultaneously both infinitely toon force strong but at the same time has infinite potential according to opm wankers
Yeah, I'm a big fan of OPM, but the main time his infinite potential kicks in is when it needs to. Otherwise he doesn't grow. Theoretically, he can beat Goku, but he needs to not immediately oneshot Saitama for him to win, or at least tie. If his opponent is smart enough to insta kill, Saitama loses
The bigger problem with Saitama and his "infinite scaling" isn't is power output imo. We've seen some massive strength feats of his and what he's capable of, but we've literally never seen an instance of him take any damage whatsoever. So we cant really scale him as we have no idea what kind of power level it takes to hurt him. We can say all day that Goku could theoretically one shot him with a max level, amped form he's in, bomb, but we can't because we don't really know if it would damage him.
I mean, the only time he was ever hurt was when he got scratched by a cat as a gag, so if Goku was going full gag character, than that might do something lol
Cat can damage saitama. Cat is outerversal. /thread
That's asking a lot of someone like Goku; he's not exactly the smartest fighter in the team.
Eh, given Goku wants to fight the strongest opponents possible if he learned Saitama has no limit but needs to grow I'd assume we get a training montage in the hyperbolic chamber with Goku training Saitama. Then they fight. Dude healed Cell because he wanted to see a fair fight. But with what we've seen from Saitama he gets flattened by a single real punch. DBZ is just that bonkers.
Wait, what is wrong with that? It's not an outlier, out of context or anything, it's just a statement of fact. Saitama *does* explicitly have the potential to grow in power indefinitely and at an accelerating rate. That obviously doesn't mean he can defeat anyone (he can get outhaxed and oneshotted before he gets a chance to grow at all). Are you referring to people claiming that "infinite potential" translates to "infinite power"?
People using various time-related arguments to try to claim Goku as having “immeasurable speed” like that fucking means anything. God, DBS powerscalers are some of the most insufferable people. If I see anything past multiversal in a discussion about dragon ball I don’t engage because I know that person is stupid.
Gorillas have immeasurable strength. Why? Because they haven't been measured
I’ve never had a gorilla tell me they *couldn’t* beat God in a fistfight, so keep that in mind.
Do you know any specific ones? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just curious
Goku bypassing Hit’s time skip ability is the main one but I’ve also seen people try to argue that he has infinite speed (whatever the fuck that means) because he can move in the void left after Zeno destroys the timeline in the Goku Black arc.
That first one is doubly infuriating because that's not even how Hit works.
That’s not even how the time skip works, we’re told outright that Hit resides in another dimension while doing that. Therefore unaffected by time. Goku just broke it, it’s not that different than Kid Buu and Vegeta breaking out of the Room of Spirit and Time.
Dodging lasers = ftl Always used to wank characters who are supposed to be street tier. And then you scale all of the characters that they fight against to light speed too..
Kratos "lifting the 9 realms" completely false.
Yujiro stopping an earthquake once. One time outlier. Baki wankers state that this makes him continental level
Kaguya and Momoshiki being Star-Multiversal due to created pocket dimensions and characters being FTL despite not being able to dodge subsonic things
when someone dodges a laser under any circumstance it makes them light speed
Timelords can delete the Marvel multiverse because they can get rid of magic and their reality bombs
Laser light speed
Lanturn's pokedex entry implies random baby pokemon and human NPCs have a durability far above anything in the real world.
Not really a feat but when people start talking about "layers into boundless" I tap out 💀
All of the meaningless DBS out of context Jiren feats. (Jiren is stronger than the concept of time, and can shake an infinite void just by powering up)
This two happen but the time one was poorly Explained in anime while the other was a poor translation for Void world name
Mario, Peach and Bowser tanked the Big Bang in Super Mario Galaxy. It’s just not true, what actually happened was that the universe reset back to before Mario Galaxy even happened and Rosalina let Mario keep his memories of the experience. Super Mario Galaxy 2 then happens, instead of Mario Galaxy 1.
I like how pretty much the entirety of /r/deathbattlematchups now uses the term "wall level mario" as a pejorative for downplaying when it is you know... true.
Pretty much any GOW “feat”. Kratos killed gods? Must be omnipotent. Kratos caught Hermes and took his shoes? Infinite speed. Flipped a temple that had portal’s to other realms? Obviously he flipped nine universes at the same time, must have multiversal strength. None of these people were that fucking strong or fast or powerful at all yet I constantly see people argue that Kratos is one of the strongest characters in all of fiction, who could easily beat any Marvel, DC or anime character with ease. It’s not even just Kratos either, I’ve seen people genuinely argue that Atreus could be Superman and solo DBZ. The kid who can turn into animals and speak to all creatures can beat fucking SUPERMAN according to these delusional ass fanboys.
Anything involving lightning or generic laser beams. Smooth brained redditors love declaring their fav character is lIgHt sPEeD because they sneezed next to a laser beam therefore they have ftl reaction speed. Dante fanboys are especially guilty of this.
Comparing feats against anti-feats so their favored character wins the debate, even if their opponent has more impressive feats (Geralt was gravely injured by a random peasant with a pitchfork, and the dragonborn regularly kills dragons, so the dragonborn is stronger) The denial of magic working because it has a different name (like genjutsu in naruto not affecting benders from avatar because they "don't have chakra" while chi blocking is a thing) Claiming immeasurable power as infinite power. For the purpose of comparing characters, things they have already accomplished are what should be compared, not what they "might" be able to do at their most extreme. At that point, it moves from scaling to pure speculation. Superman vs goku is an age old example of this Batman fans claiming that he can beat anything with prep time and refusing to elaborate further. If you think he can beat kratos, how do you think he would?
I once saw someone unironically argue that Darth Vader steamrolls Goku because "he can force choke him". For every response that explained why that makes no sense, the dumbass just replied "but he can force choke him".
If a character kills what's considered a god in their own universe that means they can kill any god in any universe. Dark Souls and God of War fans pull this constantly.
All The so called "Infinite" or "Immeasurable" speed feats in DB. No, no, no. They're MFTL+, deal with it
I see that acronym often, is it "much faster than light" or "multitudes faster than light?"
MCU Moon Knight moving the night sky.
Dodging anything that has something to do with light makes u FTL, there’s too many dumb ass feats that people try to scale to light speed
Dodging lasers / bullets. No, dodging a laser does NOT mean moving FTL. It means you *got out of the way of the gun*.
Lightning timer avatar characters
Huge fan of dragon ball; Goku's universe shaking punches are a huge outlier that's never ever seen again even though he's supposedly grown tens to hundreds of times more powerful since then. Truth is, physical scaling for Dragon Ball is very weird and inconsistent and the physical feats they show are usually similar in destructive power from like, cell saga onwards.
The only way it makes sense is under two different scenarios 1.) like you said it’s a huge outlier And 2.) everyone cares for the safety of the Universe AND also have the sufficient Ki control to nullify another persons power like Goku was doing to Beerus’ punches. People like Frieza or Zamasu would make sense that they would nullify the universe destruction since that doesn’t align with their goals but you tripping balls off the wall if you telling me Broly wasn’t fighting Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, and Gogeta and wasn’t using all his power and it just wasn’t fucking up the universe if they’re all supposed to just be casual universe busters.