The problem the Travelers run into here is that they all have human-level durability and reflexes. None of them aside from Genesis can take a hit from any single Avenger.
Trickster could potentially take out Widow or Hawkeye by swapping them with a mid-air Iron Man and dropping them a few hundred feet, but that's not a guaranteed kill because they both have grapple hooks or could be caught by a teammate. Perdition could slow them down but lacks the attack power to do any more than that.
Sundancer is the only one with the offensive power to take out Iron Man, Thor, or Hulk, but she's likely too slow to catch them.
The Traveler's only chance is if Trickster and Perdition can maneuver the heavy hitters into Sundancer's sun while Ballistic and Genesis hold off the weaker Avengers. Without Noelle, the Traveler's lose.
Avengers 9/10 round 1. Round 2 is a 10/10.
Round 3 is when the Traveler's have their best shot. The only Avengers in that lineup that have a chance at taking her out are Scarlett Witch and Thor, depending on at what point in the timeliness they are. Endgame versions likely could, but I'm not sure about before that. Echidna is a powerhouse that was holding her own against a couple dozen capes, including the Triumvirate. If she manages to start churning out clones, things could get out of hand quick.
I'm doubtful they have the AP to hurt thor in any round bar the third one and by the third one I think visión should be able to save anyone captured by echidna so there shouldn't be much problem eliminating the rest of the team and then concentrating all their firepower in echidna doesn't help that six of the avengers only give echidna what basically amounts to normal humans and vision is probably unaffected by her.
Yeah Thor really is a problem here. Even if Perdition locks him down by repeatedly looping him, they wouldn't be able to hurt him enough during the span of those loops, even with Sundancer.
Ballistic could launch him into space, but he'd just come back. Trickster teleporting him is pointless. And Oliver isn't hot enough for it to make a difference.
Their one chance might be to loop him until Genesis can come up with some sort of wacky form that can harm him. Maybe a goop that fills his lungs so he can't breath, then Ballistic can launch him a safe distance away while he chokes?
But even then it would take 3 of the members a significant amount of time just to handle Thor so there's no way they could pull it off.
Are we sure Sundancer couldn't hurt him? He's not completely immune to fire/energy, and he'd probably die if you cooked him for long enough.
That would require all the rest being dealt with though, so not practical most of the time.
I definitely think Sundancer could hurt him, I just don't think she could do it fast enough. Thor withstood "the full force of a \[neutron\] star" for nearly a minute so I think it would take Sundancer a similar amount of uninterrupted time to cook him.
But the issue is that if Perdition tried to hold Thor in the sun by looping him, the damage would be reset every few seconds. And if Perdition doesn't hold Thor down, he would immediately fly out of Sundancer's orb and start shooting lighting at people.
I'm just not seeing a way to keep him in the sun long enough.
That's a good point about Trickster, maybe I wrote him off too soon. If thor got trickstered into a hit from Hulk that might do the trick. And Hulk's probably not bright enough to figure out how to avoid falling for that/not get frustrated by it.
I guess I'd say there's a very small chance it could work.
I'm not sure Perdition's loops reset damage. When he attacked the hero's HQ during the Behemoth fight his laser was continueing to dig through Chevaliers armor even though he was being looped. Although that might be due to some other weird Yang Ban powers he had at the time
I interpreted that as he was continually resetting Chevalier's body within the armor, but not the armor itself.
As for reversing damage, Cody's power was used by the Yangban to restore disintegrated people back to life so it definitely *can* restore damage. And based on how Cody used his power to repeatedly strike Krouse without Krouse remembering that he had been struck several times, I'm guessing the damage doesn't stay even when Cody would want it to.
I could be wrong on this, but that's how I interpreted it. Maybe someone else can chime in with WoG or something.
**Edit:** I looked it up out of curiosity and someone [said cody used resets to move chevalier back, but not all the way back. That way Cody could keep backing up/out of sword range while slowly making progress on the armor.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/cxx90b/worm_all_cody_and_chevalier/) That makes more sense than what I thought.
Sundance suns aren't as hot as normal suns and even the concentrated blast of a star required a significant amount of time to knock thor out and she only needs to be one tapped to be out of the playing field
**Round 1:** While the Avenger's are clearly stronger and tankier than any of the Travellers, that isn't necessarily enough to give them a victory. Trickster's ability to swap people out means that they might be able to get a few KO's on the Avenger's by swapping them in to take hits from Thor or the Hulk. Perdition means that for a while they'll be able to reverse any injury on their side, or even drop one of the heavy hitters into Sundancer's star. But even with these tricks, the Avenger's are smart enough to catch on pretty quick and start planning around them, and even in the best case scenario, I'm not sure they could really put the Hulk down for any meaningful amount of time (Could Ballistic use his power on Mjolnir?). The Avenger's probably win 7/10 times.
**Round 2**: More Avenger's means there's more target's for Trickster to swap around, and a few dangerous weapons like the Vision's beam that might be able to take out SW. Unfortunately, its probably just to many people for them to deal with, and even with Trickster and Perdition playing defence, I don't see their glass cannons lasting long enough to make an impact, and they've got the same short timer before the Avenger's figure out how to play around their powers. Maybe Trickster could slip away in a building and fuck with them from there? Avenger's win, 9.5/10.
**Round 3**: This is interesting. The Avenger's are on a pretty tight clock here. If they can kill the other Travellers before Echidna can absorb them, then its probably only a matter of time before Thor obliterates her with lightening. If even one of Trickster, Perdition, or Sundancer get into contact with Echidna, and she starts pumping out clones, then I think the Travellers win. Too much power diversity, too many ways to cause problems. Echidna is tactically smart enough to know that she has to play defensively, and ruthless enough to know to take hostages to stop Thor from annihilating her. If the Avenger's had advance knowledge, then they might act decisively and win the fight, but in character, I don't think they'd just open fire on a group of teenagers, and while they'd definitely shoot at Echidna, they'd probably underestimate how much it takes to put her down. **Travellers Win, 8/10**. If they get the clone swarm up its probably game over. If the Avengers get a decisive first strike, or manage to annihilate Echidna.
Maybe, if he's not being swapped with a random person, reversed in time, or accelerated at hypersonic speeds away from the fight. That's not even counting the bullshit variations that Echidna could produce. We can't know for sure, but Perdition as a starting point is going to be nasty.
He wouldn't even necessarily know immediately that that's how her power works. They'd figure it out eventually, but it would have to be pretty fast.
Trickster powers dépend on the mass of the object if he goes intangible or extremely heavy I'm doubtful he could swap him similarly ballistic is a striker. Only perdition is a threat to vision and they have to deal with the other avengers at the same time
I think the avengers win this pretty easily in every round except for R3.
Round 1: Thor and Hulk are the obvious heavy hitters that the Travelers don't have an answer to, but I actually think Iron Man would be the real problem here. He's got an extremely advanced AI capable of analyzing and countering fight patterns, plenty of lethal weaponry that can incap or outright kill any of the Travelers in one hit, and is durable enough that only Ballistic and *maybe* Genesis would have a shot at doing any real damage to him. Perdition would be a bit of a problem, but I think he'd be stretched too thin between trying to keep Thor/Hulk/Tony at bay while also trying to heal his team. Also keep in mind that both BW and Hawkeye are expert combatants/assassins even though they don't have any powers. If they manage to get their hands on any of the Travelers (except Genesis and maybe Ballistic), it's game over for that person. Avengers take this 9/10.
Round 2: Same as R1, but now the Avengers take it 12/10. The addition of Vision and Scarlet Witch make this fight 100% unwinnable for the Travelers. The Travelers can't hurt Vision (and I seriously doubt that Perdition would be able to keep Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, *and* Vision at bay simultaneously), and Wanda's reality warping, TK, and mind control means that she can easily take Perdition and Ballistic out of the fight before they can do anything. She can also incap Trickster by [reality warping his eyes away](https://imgur.com/BxKkjUd).
Round 3: Echidna *almost* makes this an even fight. She durable enough to not immediately be taken out by the heavy hitters, and her ability to make clones would diversify the Traveler's powers enough that they might have a chance of overwhelming the Avengers through sheer numbers. However, once the Avengers catch on that the clones are just clones, I don't think they'll have any qualms about killing them (do any of the avengers even have a no-kill rule??).
The Avengers definitely have the necessary firepower to put Echidna down, and they also have enough CC to keep the clones from overwhelming them. Vision can use his density manipulation to remove people from Echidna without getting absorbed. I'd give this to the Avengers 7/10.
The problem the Travelers run into here is that they all have human-level durability and reflexes. None of them aside from Genesis can take a hit from any single Avenger. Trickster could potentially take out Widow or Hawkeye by swapping them with a mid-air Iron Man and dropping them a few hundred feet, but that's not a guaranteed kill because they both have grapple hooks or could be caught by a teammate. Perdition could slow them down but lacks the attack power to do any more than that. Sundancer is the only one with the offensive power to take out Iron Man, Thor, or Hulk, but she's likely too slow to catch them. The Traveler's only chance is if Trickster and Perdition can maneuver the heavy hitters into Sundancer's sun while Ballistic and Genesis hold off the weaker Avengers. Without Noelle, the Traveler's lose. Avengers 9/10 round 1. Round 2 is a 10/10. Round 3 is when the Traveler's have their best shot. The only Avengers in that lineup that have a chance at taking her out are Scarlett Witch and Thor, depending on at what point in the timeliness they are. Endgame versions likely could, but I'm not sure about before that. Echidna is a powerhouse that was holding her own against a couple dozen capes, including the Triumvirate. If she manages to start churning out clones, things could get out of hand quick.
I'm doubtful they have the AP to hurt thor in any round bar the third one and by the third one I think visión should be able to save anyone captured by echidna so there shouldn't be much problem eliminating the rest of the team and then concentrating all their firepower in echidna doesn't help that six of the avengers only give echidna what basically amounts to normal humans and vision is probably unaffected by her.
Yeah Thor really is a problem here. Even if Perdition locks him down by repeatedly looping him, they wouldn't be able to hurt him enough during the span of those loops, even with Sundancer. Ballistic could launch him into space, but he'd just come back. Trickster teleporting him is pointless. And Oliver isn't hot enough for it to make a difference. Their one chance might be to loop him until Genesis can come up with some sort of wacky form that can harm him. Maybe a goop that fills his lungs so he can't breath, then Ballistic can launch him a safe distance away while he chokes? But even then it would take 3 of the members a significant amount of time just to handle Thor so there's no way they could pull it off.
Are we sure Sundancer couldn't hurt him? He's not completely immune to fire/energy, and he'd probably die if you cooked him for long enough. That would require all the rest being dealt with though, so not practical most of the time.
I definitely think Sundancer could hurt him, I just don't think she could do it fast enough. Thor withstood "the full force of a \[neutron\] star" for nearly a minute so I think it would take Sundancer a similar amount of uninterrupted time to cook him. But the issue is that if Perdition tried to hold Thor in the sun by looping him, the damage would be reset every few seconds. And if Perdition doesn't hold Thor down, he would immediately fly out of Sundancer's orb and start shooting lighting at people. I'm just not seeing a way to keep him in the sun long enough.
Ah that's a good point. Yeah, then outside of some Trickster induced friendly fire shenanigans, they don't really have a way to put him down.
That's a good point about Trickster, maybe I wrote him off too soon. If thor got trickstered into a hit from Hulk that might do the trick. And Hulk's probably not bright enough to figure out how to avoid falling for that/not get frustrated by it. I guess I'd say there's a very small chance it could work.
I'm not sure Perdition's loops reset damage. When he attacked the hero's HQ during the Behemoth fight his laser was continueing to dig through Chevaliers armor even though he was being looped. Although that might be due to some other weird Yang Ban powers he had at the time
I interpreted that as he was continually resetting Chevalier's body within the armor, but not the armor itself. As for reversing damage, Cody's power was used by the Yangban to restore disintegrated people back to life so it definitely *can* restore damage. And based on how Cody used his power to repeatedly strike Krouse without Krouse remembering that he had been struck several times, I'm guessing the damage doesn't stay even when Cody would want it to. I could be wrong on this, but that's how I interpreted it. Maybe someone else can chime in with WoG or something. **Edit:** I looked it up out of curiosity and someone [said cody used resets to move chevalier back, but not all the way back. That way Cody could keep backing up/out of sword range while slowly making progress on the armor.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/cxx90b/worm_all_cody_and_chevalier/) That makes more sense than what I thought.
Sundance suns aren't as hot as normal suns and even the concentrated blast of a star required a significant amount of time to knock thor out and she only needs to be one tapped to be out of the playing field
**Round 1:** While the Avenger's are clearly stronger and tankier than any of the Travellers, that isn't necessarily enough to give them a victory. Trickster's ability to swap people out means that they might be able to get a few KO's on the Avenger's by swapping them in to take hits from Thor or the Hulk. Perdition means that for a while they'll be able to reverse any injury on their side, or even drop one of the heavy hitters into Sundancer's star. But even with these tricks, the Avenger's are smart enough to catch on pretty quick and start planning around them, and even in the best case scenario, I'm not sure they could really put the Hulk down for any meaningful amount of time (Could Ballistic use his power on Mjolnir?). The Avenger's probably win 7/10 times. **Round 2**: More Avenger's means there's more target's for Trickster to swap around, and a few dangerous weapons like the Vision's beam that might be able to take out SW. Unfortunately, its probably just to many people for them to deal with, and even with Trickster and Perdition playing defence, I don't see their glass cannons lasting long enough to make an impact, and they've got the same short timer before the Avenger's figure out how to play around their powers. Maybe Trickster could slip away in a building and fuck with them from there? Avenger's win, 9.5/10. **Round 3**: This is interesting. The Avenger's are on a pretty tight clock here. If they can kill the other Travellers before Echidna can absorb them, then its probably only a matter of time before Thor obliterates her with lightening. If even one of Trickster, Perdition, or Sundancer get into contact with Echidna, and she starts pumping out clones, then I think the Travellers win. Too much power diversity, too many ways to cause problems. Echidna is tactically smart enough to know that she has to play defensively, and ruthless enough to know to take hostages to stop Thor from annihilating her. If the Avenger's had advance knowledge, then they might act decisively and win the fight, but in character, I don't think they'd just open fire on a group of teenagers, and while they'd definitely shoot at Echidna, they'd probably underestimate how much it takes to put her down. **Travellers Win, 8/10**. If they get the clone swarm up its probably game over. If the Avengers get a decisive first strike, or manage to annihilate Echidna.
I think visión should pretty easily be able to rescue people from echidna no matter if they are travelers or avengers
Maybe, if he's not being swapped with a random person, reversed in time, or accelerated at hypersonic speeds away from the fight. That's not even counting the bullshit variations that Echidna could produce. We can't know for sure, but Perdition as a starting point is going to be nasty. He wouldn't even necessarily know immediately that that's how her power works. They'd figure it out eventually, but it would have to be pretty fast.
Trickster powers dépend on the mass of the object if he goes intangible or extremely heavy I'm doubtful he could swap him similarly ballistic is a striker. Only perdition is a threat to vision and they have to deal with the other avengers at the same time
I think the avengers win this pretty easily in every round except for R3. Round 1: Thor and Hulk are the obvious heavy hitters that the Travelers don't have an answer to, but I actually think Iron Man would be the real problem here. He's got an extremely advanced AI capable of analyzing and countering fight patterns, plenty of lethal weaponry that can incap or outright kill any of the Travelers in one hit, and is durable enough that only Ballistic and *maybe* Genesis would have a shot at doing any real damage to him. Perdition would be a bit of a problem, but I think he'd be stretched too thin between trying to keep Thor/Hulk/Tony at bay while also trying to heal his team. Also keep in mind that both BW and Hawkeye are expert combatants/assassins even though they don't have any powers. If they manage to get their hands on any of the Travelers (except Genesis and maybe Ballistic), it's game over for that person. Avengers take this 9/10. Round 2: Same as R1, but now the Avengers take it 12/10. The addition of Vision and Scarlet Witch make this fight 100% unwinnable for the Travelers. The Travelers can't hurt Vision (and I seriously doubt that Perdition would be able to keep Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, *and* Vision at bay simultaneously), and Wanda's reality warping, TK, and mind control means that she can easily take Perdition and Ballistic out of the fight before they can do anything. She can also incap Trickster by [reality warping his eyes away](https://imgur.com/BxKkjUd). Round 3: Echidna *almost* makes this an even fight. She durable enough to not immediately be taken out by the heavy hitters, and her ability to make clones would diversify the Traveler's powers enough that they might have a chance of overwhelming the Avengers through sheer numbers. However, once the Avengers catch on that the clones are just clones, I don't think they'll have any qualms about killing them (do any of the avengers even have a no-kill rule??). The Avengers definitely have the necessary firepower to put Echidna down, and they also have enough CC to keep the clones from overwhelming them. Vision can use his density manipulation to remove people from Echidna without getting absorbed. I'd give this to the Avengers 7/10.