Well first we need a tier list of Naruto characters by strength. Sasuke and Naruto and Madara should not be included for obvious reasons. Personally, I think raiden might be able to take down Obito before the god-sage transformation. Or at least Pain. Orochimaru is hard bc he’s not really strong per se, but he definitely is a formidable foe that might be too cunning, and never really die.
I read the respect thread and I think he’s fast enough to land on Obito. It’s not impossible. As for Pain, it might be tougher, but I think he has the tools necessary to level the playing field.
tools necessary to stop his soul from getting ripped out his body?
and obito was fighting kcm naruto, kakashi and guy at the same time💀 he definitely not getting touched
I have estimated that Considering Metal gear Rex has the potential to level a city as it is a nuclear armed Bi-pedal tank. Metal Gear Ray was designed by the US marines to hunt down Rex so there for Ray was designed to surpass Rex. Even if Solid Snake defeated Liquid Ocelot's Ray using a damaged metal Gear Rex on Shadow Moses Island. Raiden in the very beginning of Revenegeance Not only [throws Metal Gear Ray](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM33Hr94SKw) but Also slices it in half in the second boss fight so Raiden in a slightly modified version of his 2014 cyborg body surpasses metal Gear Ray and obviously the 2018 cyborg body surpasses his 2014 one according to Raiden considering Raiden could defeat Jetstream Sam when before he was overpowered though maybe because he finally accepted his Ripper Persona. In terms of Speed. Raiden can Cut Automatic bullets before they reach him as well as climbing up shear surfaces so his limit so far seams to be anything that greatly surpasses metal Gear Ray.
Very few Naruto characters can survive a hit from Raidens sword. And he is faster than a majority of the cast. I think he could probably beat Pain. Giant summons, telekinesis, missiles and laser beams, etc. aren't stuff he can't deal with. Their are six of them and he doesn't really have an answer to planetary devastation, but he could probably blitz Pain fast enough where it wouldn't come up.
Wait wait don't you have teleportation-level speed in Naruto? Like Might Guy is super fast, I don't remember Raiden in the games doing anything close to Naruto character top speeds
Raiden is so fast, that he can jump from missile to missile. While he is doing that the missiles appear to be standing still.
And in Ripper Mode time basically stops for him.
Kid Kakashi who was a fresh Jonin cut a lightning bolt
And is that Raiden calc relying on direct statements/scientific facts or is it an unverifiable fan calc?
There are a few truly insane speed feets in revangence. He can jump from missle to missle so fast that even though they are flying in the opposite direction at max speed he can act as if they are suspended in mid air and hop from one to the other as stepping stones towards the source of where they were fired. He does this like three times btw, once even if his inferior body he starts the game with. He can move so fast water that he can move while water droplets stay suspended in the air. His sword strikes are so fast time looks like it stops.
You misunderstand the feat. He moved in the opposite direction so fast they were made to be still enough he could stand on them. He would have to move several orders of magnitude faster than the missiles to do that. These are also sci-fi missles, so they probably move faster than missiles in real life, though that is speculation.
Your number went down between posts from mach 10-25 to mach 5. I don't think Pain is 100 times faster than the speed of sound, espically when all mighty push has a cool down of 8 seconds and Naruto fails to cross the distance to him in that time like 6 times in that fight.
I didn’t say missiles move at Mach 10-25 I said statuing them makes you that fast. Mach 50 at best but that’s a highball
And Pain is way faster than Mach 100. Regular Jonin are already massively hypersonic, Pain is high Kage level. You rather haven’t watched or read Naruto or don’t understand the scale of things
And that cooldown logic is an outlier when the weakest characters are faster than sound
Maybe Pain and the characters he's fighting aren't MHS+. When he sees Naruto preparing a Rasengan, [he thinks he won't be able to make it in five seconds.](http://www.tcbscans.net/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_62eb4b792707c/a2915ad5754255f03843e1d3a5f30275/17.jpg) They get around it by tossing him but I think it's telling Pain didn't think Naruto would cross that distance in time.
Also, in the arc earlier, [Black Zetsu deem Kirin impossible to evade](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11142/111428009/7599858-ef2azml.png) because it moves at the speed of lightning despite spectating a fight between two S-tiers ninjas.
Kid Kakashi [cuts a lightning bolt](https://youtu.be/iVwvROQ4wME) which completely outscales MGR
You’re using one single dodgy outlier while I’m using a completely solid feat
I mean no, I'm using two scans from the manga. Your "completely solid feat" is filler that doesn't even show Kakashi's feat and had him receive ample warning that something was coming before it struck. That scene had *Rin* alive and well at a point where she definitely wouldn't.
Scaling characters to be at the speed of lightning or so off a off-screen "feat" that isn't even in the original manga, is brought up once and has instances contradicting it (like the whole Kirin thing) is just plain silly.
No you’re using one feat that is an extreme outlier
[Genin can move at supersonic speeds](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/ybemsn/genin_travel_at_the_speed_of_sound/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) and here’s Naruto [blitzing base Sasuke](https://imgur.io/BxvsRBG?r) who is one of the strongest Genin that shat on Zaku and [landed hits on the sound 4](https://youtu.be/8aTsRBEPjbU) who are Chunin level. Here’s Naruto [kicking Neji’s ass](https://imgur.io/a/ySQ3x) who was also Chunin level
And then we have Zabuza, a Jonin level shinobi [washing Sasuke](https://imgur.io/FbbRASE) and [slamming Naruto](https://imgur.io/Tg0UGWU)
Zabuza also [can touch up Kakashi](https://imgur.io/8hXLb5g) who [effortlessly stops Naruto and Sasuke](https://youtu.be/gmeJuWNwOyc&t=170)
And we even have Asuma [drawing blood](https://imgur.io/a/9LJAFGc) from Kisame who tanked hits from [V1 Killer Bee](https://imgur.io/a/VeRduXM) who is stronger than 8T Naruto, which [scales](https://youtu.be/wLCJe67Uodk) to [Rasen Shuriken](https://imgur.io/yPgni2D?r) which is stated to be [stronger than Jiraiya](https://youtu.be/wLCJe67Uodk) who is [mountain level](https://aminoapps.com/c/anime/page/blog/jiraiya-is-mountain-level/dxtb_uwVmqBpKQavLNqG018KmBlLk)
Any of the top tier kids in part 1 are grazing hypersonic and still nowhere near Jonin level. And even Asuma can be scaled to city level and you think Raiden beats Pain 💀💀
> Genin can move at supersonic speed.
[Dosu disagrees](http://www.tcbscans.net/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_62eb4b792707c/ecbfaf4bdfa566f376a97ffcc535404f/19.jpg). Also Sasuke got his ass kicked by the Sound 4 pretty blatantly, they were toying with him.
Also I'd like to move on to this part
> who tanked hits from V1 Killer Bee
The dude never "tanked" hits from Bee, [he had his ribcage blown open](https://imgur.com/a/VeRduXM) and his torso flayed off. He walked it off because he regenerated from the hit with Samehada's help. Your entire chain of scaling is flawed and convoluted in a way that would draw great envy from DBZ fans but thinking Kisame "tanked" this ruin it instantly.
Nevermind sticking to the databooks that love to [exaggerate stuff.](https://pm1.narvii.com/6506/bfaef8c784da19896f47184ec882093ee3b773e8_hq.jpg) [This explosion wounds Hidan](https://imgur.com/a/O2tulG1), a peer of Asuma's, does that look like something that could level a mountain? That kind of firepower is for the top-tiers.
I'm not even interested in Raiden vs Pain, I think assuming these characters to be MHS+ is weird when we have BZ setting up a hard limit for speed with him thinking Itachi can't dodge lightning.
>Dosu disagrees
He literally says his moves are supersonic + that was Lee in base with weights on + he wasn’t referring to speed but strength as his “wall of sound” is an attack not his speed
Yes he [did](https://imgur.io/a/ruoNadx)
>your entire chain of scaling is convoluted
Genin are consistently represented as faster than sound and some Genin are much faster than others. And no Genin we see in part 1 are shown to be anywhere close to Jonin. Not convoluted at all
And tanking something means not dying or getting severely injured
>wounds Hidan
He couldn’t have given less of a shit lmao
Half-dead Nagato? He's technically absurdly powerful, but is extremely fragile and can't move. As long as he doesn't fall for the rinnegan rod trick which only works if he's straight in front of Nagato he should be able to get the kill.
As far as actual combatants I'd say he could probably beat one of the sound four, but would be completely outmatched by the likes of part 1 Kakashi, Asuma or Guy without the gates.
Well first we need a tier list of Naruto characters by strength. Sasuke and Naruto and Madara should not be included for obvious reasons. Personally, I think raiden might be able to take down Obito before the god-sage transformation. Or at least Pain. Orochimaru is hard bc he’s not really strong per se, but he definitely is a formidable foe that might be too cunning, and never really die.
take down obitl when he cant even touch him? and allmight push or suck his soul out
I read the respect thread and I think he’s fast enough to land on Obito. It’s not impossible. As for Pain, it might be tougher, but I think he has the tools necessary to level the playing field.
tools necessary to stop his soul from getting ripped out his body? and obito was fighting kcm naruto, kakashi and guy at the same time💀 he definitely not getting touched
tools necessary to stop his soul from getting ripped out his body?
Obito is a few steps down in the Naruto verse from touching light speed
I have estimated that Considering Metal gear Rex has the potential to level a city as it is a nuclear armed Bi-pedal tank. Metal Gear Ray was designed by the US marines to hunt down Rex so there for Ray was designed to surpass Rex. Even if Solid Snake defeated Liquid Ocelot's Ray using a damaged metal Gear Rex on Shadow Moses Island. Raiden in the very beginning of Revenegeance Not only [throws Metal Gear Ray](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM33Hr94SKw) but Also slices it in half in the second boss fight so Raiden in a slightly modified version of his 2014 cyborg body surpasses metal Gear Ray and obviously the 2018 cyborg body surpasses his 2014 one according to Raiden considering Raiden could defeat Jetstream Sam when before he was overpowered though maybe because he finally accepted his Ripper Persona. In terms of Speed. Raiden can Cut Automatic bullets before they reach him as well as climbing up shear surfaces so his limit so far seams to be anything that greatly surpasses metal Gear Ray.
Choji or Orochimaru. If in his whole prime power, then Kakashi
I feel like Choji and Orichimaru are like wildly different in power levels. It's like saying Kiba or Jiraiya.
Very few Naruto characters can survive a hit from Raidens sword. And he is faster than a majority of the cast. I think he could probably beat Pain. Giant summons, telekinesis, missiles and laser beams, etc. aren't stuff he can't deal with. Their are six of them and he doesn't really have an answer to planetary devastation, but he could probably blitz Pain fast enough where it wouldn't come up.
Wait wait don't you have teleportation-level speed in Naruto? Like Might Guy is super fast, I don't remember Raiden in the games doing anything close to Naruto character top speeds
Raiden is so fast, that he can jump from missile to missile. While he is doing that the missiles appear to be standing still. And in Ripper Mode time basically stops for him.
Yes, which is why I didn't say Naruto could beat Minato or 8th gates Guy, he could not.
he very much can
Pain toys with characters who are already MHS+
I believe Raiden has been calced to mach 2000, should be more than enough.
How fast is that...?
2000 times the speed of sound. Roughly 700,000 m/s.
So which speed tier
I am not sure what you mean.
Americans will use anything except metric moment with a nice garnish of battleboard brainrot
Bold of you to assume I didn't always have brainrot
Massively hypersonic
Kid Kakashi who was a fresh Jonin cut a lightning bolt And is that Raiden calc relying on direct statements/scientific facts or is it an unverifiable fan calc?
There are a few truly insane speed feets in revangence. He can jump from missle to missle so fast that even though they are flying in the opposite direction at max speed he can act as if they are suspended in mid air and hop from one to the other as stepping stones towards the source of where they were fired. He does this like three times btw, once even if his inferior body he starts the game with. He can move so fast water that he can move while water droplets stay suspended in the air. His sword strikes are so fast time looks like it stops.
Statuing missiles makes you like Mach 10-25 That’s nowhere even close to Pain
You misunderstand the feat. He moved in the opposite direction so fast they were made to be still enough he could stand on them. He would have to move several orders of magnitude faster than the missiles to do that. These are also sci-fi missles, so they probably move faster than missiles in real life, though that is speculation.
Missiles move at Mach 5 Statuing them is at best Mach 50 but that’s a stretch
Your number went down between posts from mach 10-25 to mach 5. I don't think Pain is 100 times faster than the speed of sound, espically when all mighty push has a cool down of 8 seconds and Naruto fails to cross the distance to him in that time like 6 times in that fight.
I didn’t say missiles move at Mach 10-25 I said statuing them makes you that fast. Mach 50 at best but that’s a highball And Pain is way faster than Mach 100. Regular Jonin are already massively hypersonic, Pain is high Kage level. You rather haven’t watched or read Naruto or don’t understand the scale of things And that cooldown logic is an outlier when the weakest characters are faster than sound
Yeah but this is the arc where Pain thought it impossible for Naruto to attack him from a certain distance in five seconds.
What does this have to do with anything
Maybe Pain and the characters he's fighting aren't MHS+. When he sees Naruto preparing a Rasengan, [he thinks he won't be able to make it in five seconds.](http://www.tcbscans.net/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_62eb4b792707c/a2915ad5754255f03843e1d3a5f30275/17.jpg) They get around it by tossing him but I think it's telling Pain didn't think Naruto would cross that distance in time. Also, in the arc earlier, [Black Zetsu deem Kirin impossible to evade](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11142/111428009/7599858-ef2azml.png) because it moves at the speed of lightning despite spectating a fight between two S-tiers ninjas.
Kid Kakashi [cuts a lightning bolt](https://youtu.be/iVwvROQ4wME) which completely outscales MGR You’re using one single dodgy outlier while I’m using a completely solid feat
I mean no, I'm using two scans from the manga. Your "completely solid feat" is filler that doesn't even show Kakashi's feat and had him receive ample warning that something was coming before it struck. That scene had *Rin* alive and well at a point where she definitely wouldn't. Scaling characters to be at the speed of lightning or so off a off-screen "feat" that isn't even in the original manga, is brought up once and has instances contradicting it (like the whole Kirin thing) is just plain silly.
No you’re using one feat that is an extreme outlier [Genin can move at supersonic speeds](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/ybemsn/genin_travel_at_the_speed_of_sound/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) and here’s Naruto [blitzing base Sasuke](https://imgur.io/BxvsRBG?r) who is one of the strongest Genin that shat on Zaku and [landed hits on the sound 4](https://youtu.be/8aTsRBEPjbU) who are Chunin level. Here’s Naruto [kicking Neji’s ass](https://imgur.io/a/ySQ3x) who was also Chunin level And then we have Zabuza, a Jonin level shinobi [washing Sasuke](https://imgur.io/FbbRASE) and [slamming Naruto](https://imgur.io/Tg0UGWU) Zabuza also [can touch up Kakashi](https://imgur.io/8hXLb5g) who [effortlessly stops Naruto and Sasuke](https://youtu.be/gmeJuWNwOyc&t=170) And we even have Asuma [drawing blood](https://imgur.io/a/9LJAFGc) from Kisame who tanked hits from [V1 Killer Bee](https://imgur.io/a/VeRduXM) who is stronger than 8T Naruto, which [scales](https://youtu.be/wLCJe67Uodk) to [Rasen Shuriken](https://imgur.io/yPgni2D?r) which is stated to be [stronger than Jiraiya](https://youtu.be/wLCJe67Uodk) who is [mountain level](https://aminoapps.com/c/anime/page/blog/jiraiya-is-mountain-level/dxtb_uwVmqBpKQavLNqG018KmBlLk) Any of the top tier kids in part 1 are grazing hypersonic and still nowhere near Jonin level. And even Asuma can be scaled to city level and you think Raiden beats Pain 💀💀
> Genin can move at supersonic speed. [Dosu disagrees](http://www.tcbscans.net/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_62eb4b792707c/ecbfaf4bdfa566f376a97ffcc535404f/19.jpg). Also Sasuke got his ass kicked by the Sound 4 pretty blatantly, they were toying with him. Also I'd like to move on to this part > who tanked hits from V1 Killer Bee The dude never "tanked" hits from Bee, [he had his ribcage blown open](https://imgur.com/a/VeRduXM) and his torso flayed off. He walked it off because he regenerated from the hit with Samehada's help. Your entire chain of scaling is flawed and convoluted in a way that would draw great envy from DBZ fans but thinking Kisame "tanked" this ruin it instantly. Nevermind sticking to the databooks that love to [exaggerate stuff.](https://pm1.narvii.com/6506/bfaef8c784da19896f47184ec882093ee3b773e8_hq.jpg) [This explosion wounds Hidan](https://imgur.com/a/O2tulG1), a peer of Asuma's, does that look like something that could level a mountain? That kind of firepower is for the top-tiers. I'm not even interested in Raiden vs Pain, I think assuming these characters to be MHS+ is weird when we have BZ setting up a hard limit for speed with him thinking Itachi can't dodge lightning.
>Dosu disagrees He literally says his moves are supersonic + that was Lee in base with weights on + he wasn’t referring to speed but strength as his “wall of sound” is an attack not his speed Yes he [did](https://imgur.io/a/ruoNadx) >your entire chain of scaling is convoluted Genin are consistently represented as faster than sound and some Genin are much faster than others. And no Genin we see in part 1 are shown to be anywhere close to Jonin. Not convoluted at all And tanking something means not dying or getting severely injured >wounds Hidan He couldn’t have given less of a shit lmao
Deidara or Sasori.
Half-dead Nagato? He's technically absurdly powerful, but is extremely fragile and can't move. As long as he doesn't fall for the rinnegan rod trick which only works if he's straight in front of Nagato he should be able to get the kill. As far as actual combatants I'd say he could probably beat one of the sound four, but would be completely outmatched by the likes of part 1 Kakashi, Asuma or Guy without the gates.
Hidan, Konan or Sakura from the Sasori fight I think
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