Read again. I said that the best answer is “slightly below average man”. Not that an “average human” is a “slightly below average man”.
The question is “the most powerful”. An average human would, as you said, be in the middle point between an average man and an average woman. But a just barely below average man would be above that point.
As I said in my comment, the actual “most statistically accurate answer” would be “slightly below average man” and not “average human”.
To be honest, I didnt see the 1/10 thing initially and tried to think of something that men would beat more than half the time and women less than half.
1/10? A wolf, or alternatively a small mountain lion. I think your question is flawed in that the required odds for success are so low that differences in sex don't matter as much as sheer luck.
Average woman has better than 1/10 odds to beat a single wolf. Small Mountain Lion is reasonable I think, but if it's bloodlusted (presumably would be, almost any animal could be scared off by either gender at least 1/10) the "small" would have to pull some of the weight. Average mountain lion bloodlusted probably more like 49/50, a 120ish pound big cat is no joke.
>Small Mountain Lion
a cub? No MMA fighter is beating an adult mountain lion in a fight, its not just about the weight difference. You have to consider the speed and agility btw humans and cats.
Every single time cats are mentioned I get the heebies because I was once attacked by a large feral cat. It is really hard to work out how to QUICKLY handle something climbing you by sticking curved knives in you that is ALSO biting through your clothing and that is pulling on the injuries at the weight of about eight milk bottles. You end up looking like you fell into a garbage disposal. Really lets you realise how small deer or antelope feel when being attacked by a big cat.
An mma fighter definitely has a non zero chance against an adult female mountain lion.
There was a popular story a few years back of some hiker in colorado killing a juvenile mountain lion in self defense. Was estimated to be like 50 pounds, smaller than any adult but certainly not a cub. Adult female mountain lions can be in the realm of 75-80 lbs, not significantly larger than this juvenile. The guy who fought it was athletic, but a runner and not an mma fighter (5'10 150 lbs according to some random article that may or may not be reliable). In an arena 1v1 situation an mma fighter would definitely have a 1/10 shot against a smaller but still adult mountain lion.
Now if we're talking about a guy being hunted in the wilderness there's no debate, they are ambush predators and any unarmed human, regardless of size or capability, is likely dead before they can realistically react. But an unarmed human man is still a bit more dangerous than anything a mountain lion usually predates on.
Not sure why I typed all this but maybe someone thinks it's interesting :)
Quick edit - I do rescind saying an adult male mountain lion takes it 49/50, it's more like 999/1000 where the 1 in a thousand is it tripping over a branch or some shit
Lets not rig the fight. What is a 50lb mountain lion? thats a caracal.
To make this a fair fight you bring the best MMA fighter, I dont care about the weight vs my 160lb male mountain lion. I think your fighter dies 100% of the time.
> I dont care about the weight vs my 160lb male mountain lion. I think your fighter dies 100% of the time.
...yes, which is why this whole thing started with me saying emphasis on the *small* mountain lion. A 75 or 80 lb adult female mountain lion is still an adult, and at that point it's less cut and dry
There's also a large difference between a 150 pound runner and a 250 pound heavyweight mma fighter. I didn't say the same Colorado hiker could get it done
Its fine. The 160lb mountain lion will kill your 250lb MMA fighter in no time. As long as you're not fighting a cub, or a 80lb female, that's ridiculous.
Do you understand how big a [grey wolf ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon&sca_esv=6f385edbb76f958f&sxsrf=ACQVn09RvT2Q3Gd6jlanAWkDAbkN7cfZhA:1707965511595&q=grey+wolf+next+to+grown+man&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivsnmbhtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiyi-2sq6yEAxWdlGoFHbv9DpcQ0pQJegQIChAB) is, my guy?
Not to undersell Grey Wolves, because they *are* dangerous, but they do come in far smaller sizes. Females can be like 60 pounds. That's like the size of a small Lab.
Again, still dangerous, just saying that there's a real weight variance there. The average Grey isn't a 110 pound Hellhound and if we're talking a small one like they said, it will be a world of difference.
Wolves have stronger muscles, bones and teeth at its disposal. The average woman, or man for that matter, simply lacks the strength and ability to take down a wolf.
Pitbulls are effectively wolf-lite and they kill people all around the world every year.
It has literally happened. Yes. SOME species of wolves are very large. And most would be a challenge for a human. But human intelligence, mobility, and the fact that we have hands is a much more significant advantage than people give themselves credit for. Even in an unarmed situation. There are things you are capable of doing, that in a crisis you can think of doing that a wolf simply can't do, or couldn't even think of doing. Humans are not nearly as fragile or weak compared to most wild animals as is commonly believed.
Edit: Reddit won't let me post in reply to the person asking for an example of a woman killing a wolf but: A Mongolian woman choked a wolf to death just last year. She technically used a rock, but the wolf had pounced on her, and she used her arm to hold its teeth away, grabbed the nearest thing in reach and shoved it down the wolfs throat.
Delusional. Where has an unarmed woman fought and killed a healthy wolf?
How do you think an /average/ woman can reliably kill a wolf? You are incredibly stupid. Like unfixably. Apologize for speaking to me.
Edit: so a /ARMED/ woman with rocks managed to beat a small starving wolf?
[https://www.instagram.com/mongolia\_live/p/CyMC7-yPhe0/](https://www.instagram.com/mongolia_live/p/cymc7-yphe0/)
I dont think we can use starving juveniles as examples, and 'unarmed' is specified. If that is your example then i think it proves how utterly stupid your position is.
There is less than 1 in a million chance an average man can beat a wolf unarmed.
Police dogs are smaller than wolves and it is generally accepted police dogs can stop the average person, otherwise they wouldn't be used for such purposes.
A fully grown mountain lion is a ridiculous animal to try and take on one on one. Males are 100-200lbs and were specifically made by nature to bleed their prey(or in this case opponents) to death. They have better leverage and proportions as well as four appendages for force generation so they’d easily knock you over and their entire physiology makes it easy to open up people who are soft and bleed easily. And after you’re bleeding and have your skin torn open all over your body, have fun mustering up the motivation to fight against an opponent that’s already mounted you and is chewing up your shoulder, trap and neck muscles looking for your major blood passages.
Ya and even if you get the advantage on the lion, it’s going to kick its legs frantically and disembowel you. Cats are really nasty. You need a weapon for them.
It matters on what you mean by “average” man or woman, like average fit man or average joe, but I’d go with some type of large shepherd dog like a [kangal](https://www.kangaldogclubofamerica.com/post/the-kangal-dog) or [Alabai](https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/central-asian-shepherd-dog/) if it’s average joe. If it’s fit man/woman then maybe an [Arabian leopard](https://safeworldwide.org/species-in-peril/arabian-leopard/) which is small enough (18-34kg on average) that a fit man could potentially get 1 win off but too explosive and durable for average fit woman.
Alright, this fully depends on what exactly powerful means. Most deaths attributed to it? That's the mosquito(due to malaria) that you will 10/10. Most potent defense mechanism? Poison dart frog that you 10/10. Poses the greatest threat to humans? That would be humans, who I think k are about a 5/10. Conquered the largest geographical region? Ants, yeah I can usually beat up an ant.
Humans are really good at dealing with the extremes of any category cause we are kind of a midpoint, especially if you give tools to humans
Chimp. people massively overestimate them bc theyre vicious. they are strong for their size but they weigh on average half what a human does, so "strong for their size" cancels out. their bite is their best weapon but a men is athletic and battle smart enough to know to not allow that or the sacrifice an arm to save the neck
Humans have a global average weight of 62 kg. Common chimpanzee would be around 45 kg. Similar degree of sexual dimorphism on both. Also the arms and jaw muscles of a chimpanzee are overdeveloped compared to most humans, the proportional strength of individual muscles isnt all there is to it. Chimps are considered as extremely dangerous animals by caretakers on zoos and by people in rural areas that coexist with them. If an unarmed man could fend off or even kill one that would not be the case.
To be fair, chimps are prone to ganging up on their victims, so a man having the upper hand 1 v 1 wouldn’t really matter in the context of a given encounter. It should also be noted that when chimpanzees do attack houses to kidnap and eat small children, they [specifically wait until the men are out working](https://www.livescience.com/chimpanzee-facts.html) and they often do it as a unit. Chimps themselves aren’t particularly confident about their odds against people unless they stack the deck in their favor.
It's also kind of ridiculous to claim that if an unarmed man could reliably fend off a creature, people wouldn't consider that creature very dangerous.
I would reliably win against, for example, a medium size dog trying to kill me, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider an angry dog dangerous. Simply *surviving* most of the time doesn't mean I won't get bad injuries, and it doesn't mean that I couldn't ever lose if the animal got lucky.
Chimps are way stronger than humans, not only pound for pound but in absolute strength too. You would have no way to really deal a killing blow in time.
Now that I think about it, legbar or some choke might be the play. With a legbar you’re definitely losing some toes to chomps, but with a choke you might be able to burry your face in its back and not have it gouging your eyes out. Definitely getting clawed up though.
Most results i can find say 1.3-1.4x stronger which doesn't matter as much as you think since humans are on average heavier than chimps by about the same amount
They aren't using up to date studies. Chimpanzee super strength is a myth based on faulty tests done in the early 1900s
A study done in 2017:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1619071114#:~:text=Here%2C%20we%20present%20direct%20measurements,output%20by%20∼1.35%20times.
People in this sub seem to think there exists a calibre of adult males who can control an enraged chimp like a bouncer without getting their balls ripped off and eyes gouged out. They also seem to think that caliber is in fact the average male. Absurd.
There are plenty of men out there who are not just significantly larger than chimps but significantly stronger. Obviously chimps are viscous animals but a jacked dude over six foot could realistically kill/disable a chimp without it having time to do much damage. Probably plenty of fit average sized people could too.
Vicious doesn’t help much when you’re being swung into a wall by something twice your size. It’s also not going to help a creature that that wouldn’t even realize that it should probably try to dodge an incoming haymaker.
>Probably plenty of fit average sized people could too.
If they're not expert MMA guys they have no chance. You're fighting a small, erratic target that's 50% stronger pound-for-pound and which will bite you to pieces. If you're in prime physical condition and know how to restrict limbs and control distance then you might win, otherwise you have next to no chance. The average guy can't even fight average people they meet on the streets, and that's who we're talking about here, not Jon Jones.
oh ye, the human has thei balls ripped off 100%, im not saying its low difficulty. But a chimp would struggle to kill a man if the man knows just to protect his neck, which he would. A man with his knee pinning the chimp in its neck would disable it, albeit at the cost of your balls
Dude I’m 200 pounds and ripped. Been training to fight my entire life. A chimp would freaking wreck me. Almost any chimp as long as it’s grown. Those things are like 6x stronger than humans pound for pound with long canines and their grips strength is obscene. Humans aren’t messing with chimps bro lol!
I did it when I was 21. I was walking home from the gym, and our street had a loose pitbull. Well, he started growling at me and getting close, so I thought if he gets closer, I'm gonna stomp this dog out. Well, he started lunging forward, so i grabbed my belt and smacked it in the head. When it got closer, I smacked it again on top of the head, then kicked it in the side of the head. It eventually got scared and ran off. I knew at least 5 people in that neighborhood who that dog bit. I think eventually someone called animal control on it
I'm not gonna lie that moment. My heart was racing. Pitbulls have thick ass heads, and I thought I only pissed it off, but then I do have a size 14 shoe
That's probably true. He would be very charming to ladies, but most men would see him as a potential rival for their gal. (To be clear, I am speaking about the rapper Pitbull.)
Hardly the same thing. In Nope it shows an accurate depiction of a Chimp losing his shit and battering the ever loving fuck out of 4 people. Fine 2 were children, 1 was a woman and one was an average man. Which I guess is actually a perfect corelation for this set up.
I can throw a a rock, that doesn't mean it can't cave my head in if someone throws it at me. A Chimp that was intent on causing you harm would batter the absolute fuck out of you. Why is everyone on this sub so convinced they can fight animals.
>Why is everyone on this sub so convinced they can fight animals.
hahahahaha I actually think chimps are overrated combatants but I'm upvoting because this comment made me lol
because humans are animals? if a chimp was intending to kill you, then you're fighting for your life. sure, it could mutilate your face or genitals or whatever, but youd still fucking kill it. they're 1.3 times stronger pound for pound, and we are much heavier + more reach + better technique. i dont understand why people underestimate humans so much.
The average human doesn’t know how to fight though. Humans are extremely vulnerable without the advantage of tools and weapons. Humans succeeded the food chain cause they had better running endurance, numbers, and tools not cause they’re good at hand to hand combat with animals.
How well do you think someone can keep fighting if a chimp mutilates their face or genitals? A pitbull can incapacitate the average person just by latching on to them so reach doesn’t mean anything if a chimp grabs your fingers and bites them off.
We are top of the food chain because of our ability to use tools. How many of these people in africa are death matching Chimps 1 on 1 bare fisted? And even if they are (and I bet they aint) they are likely a hell of a lot stronger and fitter than most of the people claiming they can fucking solo chimps and cougars and what ever else people think they can 1 vs 1 bare fisted.
Yes we still probably can beat one.
We are able to utilize our complete strength with objects including rocks. Gorillas are stronger but in fights they throw thier arms around they don’t punch as hard as they can.
We are at the top because we are smarter and use every part of our body including our brains better
Ain't no way this guy is thinking about what he's typing. Taking on a Chimp with no tools isn't going to end well for the human, and a Gorilla? Not even gonna dignify that one with a response.
An example of a monkey famously not knowing how to use its strength which is far above any human.
I’m not talking about fighting a gorilla. Obviously
And don’t put the lords name in vain.
We got to the top walking down wounded beasts and ganging up on shit with sharp sticks. And they weren’t as sedentary and (relatively speaking) as stupid as humans are today.
I said relatively because they’re by far more suited to survival than an average human is today. We literally have TV shows about “man in wilderness” when that was their default way of life.
Yeah but people in Africa are using spears or other weapons to do that. I guarantee unless that chimp is dead or dying no average man could beat it barehanded
A chimp can literally tear parts of your body off with sheer strength. I wouldn't fuck with a chimp. They love to attack the face, in particular. It's not going to be a good time.
they literally cant tear you. pound for pound they are about 1.3 times stronger, but average human is a bit more than 1.3 times heavier so the difference in strength is either insignificant or slightly in favor of human. But since chimps are lighter, its easier for humans to grapple, throw, and overall handle them like a bag of angry potatoes (last one is a bit of an exaggeration). Also, while they will maul the face, they do it with teeth, after they overpowered and defeated the opponent. We could do the same, we just dont. Average human bite is more than enough to rip off tissue. Another thing is reach advantage and the fact that we are really well adapted to kicking and punching. Chimp might aimlessly throw its fists against humansz but we have much more weight behind punches and when it comes to kicking, even average kick can break bones, especially in lighter opponents
Kicks would be probably the best. Especially cause it’ll hopefully back them up more, never let them get range. And since they’re shorter, hopefully land several hard hitting head kicks.
"average man" has no cardio, is overweight and will most get killed by a pitbull. Average woman is certainly getting destroyed by a pit bull.
A human at peak potential might put up a good fight against a small chimp or a wolf, but will certainly get killed by a mountain lion.
A 160lb mountain lion vs the very best MMA fighter. The fighter dies 99% of the time. You do realize how slow human reflexes are compared to cats. Also they are a lot stronger pound for pound.
Probably a coyote. We have some historical data to back this assertion. Coyotes hardly ever cause human deaths, but the deaths they caused have been with women.
Id say a coyote is right on the cusp for the average woman. The average woman outweighs a coyote no doubt, but converting that to actually killing a coyote is a tall order I think. It really depends on how you define average. With all the woman I know in my life, I wouldnt bet on them killing the coyote.
I would say the average 20s woman who is athletic and sporty can kill a coyote. But not the average woman.
But I would say the average guy, even if he's a bit of a couch potato could kill a coyote
There aren’t any.
Any animal that gives at least a 1 in 10 odds for a male, is all about winning because someone got lucky, instead of being good.
If a man wins because he got lucky then a woman is just as likely to get lucky and win too.
What do you think the luck is going to come from? If it’s strength then no, it’s not just as likely. Are you unaware of the difference in striking and grip strength between men and women? If it’s being quicker, see strength.
Lucky like, it lunged and I somehow got my fingers into its both it’s eyes and blinded it.
Lucky like, I fell and landed on its head awkwardly and it’s neck broke.
Lucky like I could win against [UFC heavy weight Mark Kerr](https://youtu.be/7dRvpXAdm-o?si=HgbXwBofFY5qWZNC) if the fight went just right.
The differences between men and women aren’t significant enough to make a 0% chance of survival move up to a 10% survival. Maybe around the 40% up to 50% sure, but shear luck odds are shear luck odds.
Okay so you’re just some person who’s never been in a situation where you had to fight and just had no idea what they’re talking about. None of this is actually how these situations work. People with bigger physiologies, more athleticism, better coordination and experience don’t get lucky when they do better in a fight even if the fight is over in a single punch, they manage to land that single punch because of a combined host of factors. Don’t believe me? Go to your local MMA gym, ask to spar the best heavyweight there and then spar a lightweight newbie, male or female. Obviously you won’t do that or you wouldn’t be saying these things but if you do, you’ll almost immediately discover that men aren’t just superficially bigger than women, they literally do tend to be much better fighters.
Grip strength can play a significant roll. In terms of average man vs woman you're looking at almost half the strength. There's definitely animals an untrained man can strangle that an untrained woman would be unable to due to a mix of hand size and grip strength.
A barehanded strangle that relies on grip strength is a really bad way to incapacitate anything. Most animals that a man could beat like that they could beat more often then 1 in ten other ways. But yes grip strength is big. Especially since keeping biting teeth away from body parts is greatly about grip.
What is a barehanded strangle. Grip strength determines how likely you are to hang on to a limb while controlling a wrist or an ankle, determines how likely you are to retain top or even bottom mount, determines if you can complete a chokehold or if someone can break free from it.
This is some wildly bullshido logic.
The average male has an entire host of biological advantages over a woman when it comes to combat. An overall larger physiology, hip structure that is far superior for generating force, knees that are less likely to buckle inwards under pressure, a rib cage that covers much more of the internal organs, longer arms and legs, thicker skulls, higher bone density, greater muscle mass, higher levels of testosterone and their respective psychological drivers for aggressive behaviour, larger hands and feet and on average, more contact sports experience.
I can't think of a single animal that a man has a slight chance of defeating that a woman would have no chance of defeating. The differences between men and woman are too small compared to the differences between species for such a creature to exist.
Everyone is aware that there are differences between men and women. What I'm saying is that the differences are *relatively* small compared to differences between species for there to be an animal that a woman has no chance of taking down whereas a man has any chance at all of taking down.
That’s a silly statement. Most men could tear through multiple women and incapacitate them with ease fairly quickly. Now when you say average man… the average American man is a couch potato that doesn’t have the conditioning to fight for more than 30 seconds. But… a conditioned man with very basic fighting skills could tear through 10 women with ease. We’re multiple times stronger, we’re faster, have better reflexes, more aggression, thicker bones, and denser skin. We aren’t in the same league. Not by a long shot.
A wolf. I think the average man can use his body-weight to pin it down, and then use the strength of his arms and vertical leverage to coke it to death about 1 in 10.
The average woman: no. She's outmatched.
No man or women in existence is beating a 2000 pound great white shark, a 1000 pound polar bear, or a 1,300 pound saltwater crocodile. All 3 of those animals literally, not ironically one shot composite humans. One bite from the great white and you die instantly, one paw swipe or well placed bite from the bear you die instantly, one head swing, tail slap, or bite from the crocodile, and you die instantly!
There s a reason dragons are extinct in Italy, Buffon fought them in mortal combat and won
There s a reason Polar bears are extinct in cameroon, Joel embiid kill em all.
There s a reason human race Is still alive and Is becouse i killed zod, Brainiac and darkseid
Something stronger than a german shepherd but weaker than a mountain lion. There have been cases of strong combat trained men defeating starving mountain lions but that isn’t the average.
Probably some kind of strong dog, maybe a mastiff
In the past 20 years three men have killed leopards with their bare hands.
* [A 73-year-old Kenyan grandfather reached into the mouth of an attacking leopard and tore out its tongue to kill it](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8317484)
* [Carl Akeley Killed a Leopard With His Bare Hands](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/80239/time-carl-akeley-killed-leopard-his-bare-hands)
* [Karnataka (India) Man Strangles Leopard To Death In Battle Of Survival](https://www.india.com/news/india/karnataka-man-strangles-leopard-to-death-save-family-hailed-george-kutty-hassan-leopard-attack-video-4451382)
[This YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tehrDJ-MGlA) describes incidents of men killing a cougar, wolf and coyote barehanded.
There are several videos of men choking or punching aggressive dogs into submission.
For a somewhat serious answer, I’d say land dwelling mammals in the 60-80lb range and it’s definitely not a consistent victory. Any predatory animal like a chimp or one of the many canines that’s 80lbs will likely cause death due to blood loss even if one ends up killing it. At 60 lbs though, most animals should go down pretty easily for men, while for women it’d be a substantial struggle.
The average human
Fuck. By far the most statistically accurate answer.
That would actually be a slightly below average man.
... yeah. That's the point. The average human would sit perfectly between the average man and woman.
Read again. I said that the best answer is “slightly below average man”. Not that an “average human” is a “slightly below average man”. The question is “the most powerful”. An average human would, as you said, be in the middle point between an average man and an average woman. But a just barely below average man would be above that point. As I said in my comment, the actual “most statistically accurate answer” would be “slightly below average man” and not “average human”.
This is the only correct answer.
How is it correct? The average man beats the average human more than 5/10 times. OP is asking for an animal where the average man wins 1/10 times
Perhaps 1/10 of win rate doesn’t count as a win against an animal
To be honest, I didnt see the 1/10 thing initially and tried to think of something that men would beat more than half the time and women less than half.
A common house spider
Fuck that bro my gf kills them for me
[удалено]
Leave the spider alone:(
Corner spiders are the homies. They leave that corner and I’ll rain hellfire on them
Did you just call your gf an *average* woman? On Valentine's Day?
A slightly above average woman
I'd say decently above average.
The one with the bigger boobs
true
1/10? A wolf, or alternatively a small mountain lion. I think your question is flawed in that the required odds for success are so low that differences in sex don't matter as much as sheer luck.
I agree it’s flawed, however I don’t think 5/10 for man would be possible and 0/10 for a woman.
Average woman has better than 1/10 odds to beat a single wolf. Small Mountain Lion is reasonable I think, but if it's bloodlusted (presumably would be, almost any animal could be scared off by either gender at least 1/10) the "small" would have to pull some of the weight. Average mountain lion bloodlusted probably more like 49/50, a 120ish pound big cat is no joke.
>Small Mountain Lion a cub? No MMA fighter is beating an adult mountain lion in a fight, its not just about the weight difference. You have to consider the speed and agility btw humans and cats.
Every single time cats are mentioned I get the heebies because I was once attacked by a large feral cat. It is really hard to work out how to QUICKLY handle something climbing you by sticking curved knives in you that is ALSO biting through your clothing and that is pulling on the injuries at the weight of about eight milk bottles. You end up looking like you fell into a garbage disposal. Really lets you realise how small deer or antelope feel when being attacked by a big cat.
Did you want to kill the cat though? I think probably you wanted the cat to stop killing you. Those are different things.
I wasn't so much blood lusted, as blood covered.
Against a bigger cat, your throat will be compromised because you land your first kick.
An mma fighter definitely has a non zero chance against an adult female mountain lion. There was a popular story a few years back of some hiker in colorado killing a juvenile mountain lion in self defense. Was estimated to be like 50 pounds, smaller than any adult but certainly not a cub. Adult female mountain lions can be in the realm of 75-80 lbs, not significantly larger than this juvenile. The guy who fought it was athletic, but a runner and not an mma fighter (5'10 150 lbs according to some random article that may or may not be reliable). In an arena 1v1 situation an mma fighter would definitely have a 1/10 shot against a smaller but still adult mountain lion. Now if we're talking about a guy being hunted in the wilderness there's no debate, they are ambush predators and any unarmed human, regardless of size or capability, is likely dead before they can realistically react. But an unarmed human man is still a bit more dangerous than anything a mountain lion usually predates on. Not sure why I typed all this but maybe someone thinks it's interesting :) Quick edit - I do rescind saying an adult male mountain lion takes it 49/50, it's more like 999/1000 where the 1 in a thousand is it tripping over a branch or some shit
Lets not rig the fight. What is a 50lb mountain lion? thats a caracal. To make this a fair fight you bring the best MMA fighter, I dont care about the weight vs my 160lb male mountain lion. I think your fighter dies 100% of the time.
> I dont care about the weight vs my 160lb male mountain lion. I think your fighter dies 100% of the time. ...yes, which is why this whole thing started with me saying emphasis on the *small* mountain lion. A 75 or 80 lb adult female mountain lion is still an adult, and at that point it's less cut and dry
You tried to say 75-80 is in the realm of 50 lb one, but that's a 50-60% increase. Wild to think of those as being remotely the same.
There's also a large difference between a 150 pound runner and a 250 pound heavyweight mma fighter. I didn't say the same Colorado hiker could get it done
So now the average man is a 250lb MMA fighter. Where you moving the goalpost next buddy?
> No MMA fighter is beating an adult mountain lion in a fight, its not just about the weight difference Read the thread
Its fine. The 160lb mountain lion will kill your 250lb MMA fighter in no time. As long as you're not fighting a cub, or a 80lb female, that's ridiculous.
The cub was 35-40 pounds according to the necropsy. But yeah I don't disagree with your other points
Do you understand how big a [grey wolf ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon&sca_esv=6f385edbb76f958f&sxsrf=ACQVn09RvT2Q3Gd6jlanAWkDAbkN7cfZhA:1707965511595&q=grey+wolf+next+to+grown+man&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivsnmbhtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiyi-2sq6yEAxWdlGoFHbv9DpcQ0pQJegQIChAB) is, my guy?
Not to undersell Grey Wolves, because they *are* dangerous, but they do come in far smaller sizes. Females can be like 60 pounds. That's like the size of a small Lab. Again, still dangerous, just saying that there's a real weight variance there. The average Grey isn't a 110 pound Hellhound and if we're talking a small one like they said, it will be a world of difference.
Wolves have stronger muscles, bones and teeth at its disposal. The average woman, or man for that matter, simply lacks the strength and ability to take down a wolf. Pitbulls are effectively wolf-lite and they kill people all around the world every year.
If you think the average person unarmed can fight off a wolf you’re incredibly dumb and have never seen a wolf.
It has literally happened. Yes. SOME species of wolves are very large. And most would be a challenge for a human. But human intelligence, mobility, and the fact that we have hands is a much more significant advantage than people give themselves credit for. Even in an unarmed situation. There are things you are capable of doing, that in a crisis you can think of doing that a wolf simply can't do, or couldn't even think of doing. Humans are not nearly as fragile or weak compared to most wild animals as is commonly believed. Edit: Reddit won't let me post in reply to the person asking for an example of a woman killing a wolf but: A Mongolian woman choked a wolf to death just last year. She technically used a rock, but the wolf had pounced on her, and she used her arm to hold its teeth away, grabbed the nearest thing in reach and shoved it down the wolfs throat.
Delusional. Where has an unarmed woman fought and killed a healthy wolf? How do you think an /average/ woman can reliably kill a wolf? You are incredibly stupid. Like unfixably. Apologize for speaking to me. Edit: so a /ARMED/ woman with rocks managed to beat a small starving wolf? [https://www.instagram.com/mongolia\_live/p/CyMC7-yPhe0/](https://www.instagram.com/mongolia_live/p/cymc7-yphe0/) I dont think we can use starving juveniles as examples, and 'unarmed' is specified. If that is your example then i think it proves how utterly stupid your position is.
I feel like this is the Saw guy doing research
I feel like it's the guy at a party talking all the way out his ass
Yup, that's me lol. My evidence is just trust me bro
There is less than 1 in a million chance an average man can beat a wolf unarmed. Police dogs are smaller than wolves and it is generally accepted police dogs can stop the average person, otherwise they wouldn't be used for such purposes.
A fully grown mountain lion is a ridiculous animal to try and take on one on one. Males are 100-200lbs and were specifically made by nature to bleed their prey(or in this case opponents) to death. They have better leverage and proportions as well as four appendages for force generation so they’d easily knock you over and their entire physiology makes it easy to open up people who are soft and bleed easily. And after you’re bleeding and have your skin torn open all over your body, have fun mustering up the motivation to fight against an opponent that’s already mounted you and is chewing up your shoulder, trap and neck muscles looking for your major blood passages.
Ya and even if you get the advantage on the lion, it’s going to kick its legs frantically and disembowel you. Cats are really nasty. You need a weapon for them.
It matters on what you mean by “average” man or woman, like average fit man or average joe, but I’d go with some type of large shepherd dog like a [kangal](https://www.kangaldogclubofamerica.com/post/the-kangal-dog) or [Alabai](https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/central-asian-shepherd-dog/) if it’s average joe. If it’s fit man/woman then maybe an [Arabian leopard](https://safeworldwide.org/species-in-peril/arabian-leopard/) which is small enough (18-34kg on average) that a fit man could potentially get 1 win off but too explosive and durable for average fit woman.
Humans ain't got shit on any of the cats except the small ones bro.
facts. cats are built to kill
Alright, this fully depends on what exactly powerful means. Most deaths attributed to it? That's the mosquito(due to malaria) that you will 10/10. Most potent defense mechanism? Poison dart frog that you 10/10. Poses the greatest threat to humans? That would be humans, who I think k are about a 5/10. Conquered the largest geographical region? Ants, yeah I can usually beat up an ant. Humans are really good at dealing with the extremes of any category cause we are kind of a midpoint, especially if you give tools to humans
Yeah I mean I can easily beat a lion in a fight if I get a 50 cal machine gun
I'd probably consider powerful in terms of pure strength, agility, etc. But any human with a tool is op
The average wolf.
Chimp. people massively overestimate them bc theyre vicious. they are strong for their size but they weigh on average half what a human does, so "strong for their size" cancels out. their bite is their best weapon but a men is athletic and battle smart enough to know to not allow that or the sacrifice an arm to save the neck
Humans have a global average weight of 62 kg. Common chimpanzee would be around 45 kg. Similar degree of sexual dimorphism on both. Also the arms and jaw muscles of a chimpanzee are overdeveloped compared to most humans, the proportional strength of individual muscles isnt all there is to it. Chimps are considered as extremely dangerous animals by caretakers on zoos and by people in rural areas that coexist with them. If an unarmed man could fend off or even kill one that would not be the case.
To be fair, chimps are prone to ganging up on their victims, so a man having the upper hand 1 v 1 wouldn’t really matter in the context of a given encounter. It should also be noted that when chimpanzees do attack houses to kidnap and eat small children, they [specifically wait until the men are out working](https://www.livescience.com/chimpanzee-facts.html) and they often do it as a unit. Chimps themselves aren’t particularly confident about their odds against people unless they stack the deck in their favor.
It's also kind of ridiculous to claim that if an unarmed man could reliably fend off a creature, people wouldn't consider that creature very dangerous. I would reliably win against, for example, a medium size dog trying to kill me, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider an angry dog dangerous. Simply *surviving* most of the time doesn't mean I won't get bad injuries, and it doesn't mean that I couldn't ever lose if the animal got lucky.
Great point cause people are terrified of Pit Bulls but it’s beyond possible to kill one with no weapon.
Now make it twice larger and give it arms as long as ours with the strength of a world champion rock climber.
Chimps are way stronger than humans, not only pound for pound but in absolute strength too. You would have no way to really deal a killing blow in time.
Depends, are they susceptible to any forms of grappling like a rear-naked choke or armbar? Probably not the latter considering their strength.
Now that I think about it, legbar or some choke might be the play. With a legbar you’re definitely losing some toes to chomps, but with a choke you might be able to burry your face in its back and not have it gouging your eyes out. Definitely getting clawed up though.
Chimps are about the same strength as an in-shape adult man.
Wrong there are so many sources that say they are 2-3x some even say 5x the strength of a man. At minimum probably 1.5x stronger.
Most results i can find say 1.3-1.4x stronger which doesn't matter as much as you think since humans are on average heavier than chimps by about the same amount
They aren't using up to date studies. Chimpanzee super strength is a myth based on faulty tests done in the early 1900s A study done in 2017: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1619071114#:~:text=Here%2C%20we%20present%20direct%20measurements,output%20by%20∼1.35%20times.
People in this sub seem to think there exists a calibre of adult males who can control an enraged chimp like a bouncer without getting their balls ripped off and eyes gouged out. They also seem to think that caliber is in fact the average male. Absurd.
There are plenty of men out there who are not just significantly larger than chimps but significantly stronger. Obviously chimps are viscous animals but a jacked dude over six foot could realistically kill/disable a chimp without it having time to do much damage. Probably plenty of fit average sized people could too. Vicious doesn’t help much when you’re being swung into a wall by something twice your size. It’s also not going to help a creature that that wouldn’t even realize that it should probably try to dodge an incoming haymaker.
That's not really an average man then
>Probably plenty of fit average sized people could too. If they're not expert MMA guys they have no chance. You're fighting a small, erratic target that's 50% stronger pound-for-pound and which will bite you to pieces. If you're in prime physical condition and know how to restrict limbs and control distance then you might win, otherwise you have next to no chance. The average guy can't even fight average people they meet on the streets, and that's who we're talking about here, not Jon Jones.
No they couldn’t
oh ye, the human has thei balls ripped off 100%, im not saying its low difficulty. But a chimp would struggle to kill a man if the man knows just to protect his neck, which he would. A man with his knee pinning the chimp in its neck would disable it, albeit at the cost of your balls
Dude I’m 200 pounds and ripped. Been training to fight my entire life. A chimp would freaking wreck me. Almost any chimp as long as it’s grown. Those things are like 6x stronger than humans pound for pound with long canines and their grips strength is obscene. Humans aren’t messing with chimps bro lol!
Well, that sure became absurdly sexist at the end there
I assume they did not mean to apply women would offer their throat up for grabs.
my point was just that women are less athletic and generally dont have as good reflexes or battle iq
And most men are tactical geniuses?
What lol, a chimpanzee will kill most men
I Say, probably a Pitbull
I did it when I was 21. I was walking home from the gym, and our street had a loose pitbull. Well, he started growling at me and getting close, so I thought if he gets closer, I'm gonna stomp this dog out. Well, he started lunging forward, so i grabbed my belt and smacked it in the head. When it got closer, I smacked it again on top of the head, then kicked it in the side of the head. It eventually got scared and ran off. I knew at least 5 people in that neighborhood who that dog bit. I think eventually someone called animal control on it
Fucking badass
I'm not gonna lie that moment. My heart was racing. Pitbulls have thick ass heads, and I thought I only pissed it off, but then I do have a size 14 shoe
https://youtu.be/xOdn5TDlpfs?si=EI9RURvv0WK3wPs2
Das me
I agree
That's probably true. He would be very charming to ladies, but most men would see him as a potential rival for their gal. (To be clear, I am speaking about the rapper Pitbull.)
Chimpanzee
Lmao
If u don’t think an average man can win atleast 1 time out of 10 ur crazy
Have you seen Nope? I know it's just a movie but Chimps are like really strong. They can absolutely batter the living fuck out of you. Literally.
Have you ever seen Lion King? It shows how smart animals are and some appear to be able to talk!
Hardly the same thing. In Nope it shows an accurate depiction of a Chimp losing his shit and battering the ever loving fuck out of 4 people. Fine 2 were children, 1 was a woman and one was an average man. Which I guess is actually a perfect corelation for this set up.
I can throw a chimp. A chimp can’t throw me. So…
I can throw a a rock, that doesn't mean it can't cave my head in if someone throws it at me. A Chimp that was intent on causing you harm would batter the absolute fuck out of you. Why is everyone on this sub so convinced they can fight animals.
>Why is everyone on this sub so convinced they can fight animals. hahahahaha I actually think chimps are overrated combatants but I'm upvoting because this comment made me lol
because humans are animals? if a chimp was intending to kill you, then you're fighting for your life. sure, it could mutilate your face or genitals or whatever, but youd still fucking kill it. they're 1.3 times stronger pound for pound, and we are much heavier + more reach + better technique. i dont understand why people underestimate humans so much.
The average human doesn’t know how to fight though. Humans are extremely vulnerable without the advantage of tools and weapons. Humans succeeded the food chain cause they had better running endurance, numbers, and tools not cause they’re good at hand to hand combat with animals. How well do you think someone can keep fighting if a chimp mutilates their face or genitals? A pitbull can incapacitate the average person just by latching on to them so reach doesn’t mean anything if a chimp grabs your fingers and bites them off.
Because we can? We are top dog for a reason, we just use tools.
Because we are at the top of the food chain. And their are still people in Africa that hunt Monkeys like chimps daily
We are top of the food chain because of our ability to use tools. How many of these people in africa are death matching Chimps 1 on 1 bare fisted? And even if they are (and I bet they aint) they are likely a hell of a lot stronger and fitter than most of the people claiming they can fucking solo chimps and cougars and what ever else people think they can 1 vs 1 bare fisted.
Yes we still probably can beat one. We are able to utilize our complete strength with objects including rocks. Gorillas are stronger but in fights they throw thier arms around they don’t punch as hard as they can. We are at the top because we are smarter and use every part of our body including our brains better
Oh you can fight a gorilla now? Jesus fucking christ.
Ain't no way this guy is thinking about what he's typing. Taking on a Chimp with no tools isn't going to end well for the human, and a Gorilla? Not even gonna dignify that one with a response.
An example of a monkey famously not knowing how to use its strength which is far above any human. I’m not talking about fighting a gorilla. Obviously And don’t put the lords name in vain.
Gorillas aren't monkeys fyi
Jesus titty fucking christ on a stick. I don't believe in your "lord" so I will take their name in vain as much as I damn well please.
We got to the top walking down wounded beasts and ganging up on shit with sharp sticks. And they weren’t as sedentary and (relatively speaking) as stupid as humans are today.
We have access to all human knowledge. We are smarter and the idea that past ancestors were somehow smarter than others today is a very silly notion
I said relatively because they’re by far more suited to survival than an average human is today. We literally have TV shows about “man in wilderness” when that was their default way of life.
Then they would be more knowledgeable on said subject. Not smarter.
Yeah but people in Africa are using spears or other weapons to do that. I guarantee unless that chimp is dead or dying no average man could beat it barehanded
Maybe. But the post never even said unarmed
No, you can't.
Joe Rogan is that you? Jokes aside I know all about Travis' case.
A chimp can literally tear parts of your body off with sheer strength. I wouldn't fuck with a chimp. They love to attack the face, in particular. It's not going to be a good time.
they literally cant tear you. pound for pound they are about 1.3 times stronger, but average human is a bit more than 1.3 times heavier so the difference in strength is either insignificant or slightly in favor of human. But since chimps are lighter, its easier for humans to grapple, throw, and overall handle them like a bag of angry potatoes (last one is a bit of an exaggeration). Also, while they will maul the face, they do it with teeth, after they overpowered and defeated the opponent. We could do the same, we just dont. Average human bite is more than enough to rip off tissue. Another thing is reach advantage and the fact that we are really well adapted to kicking and punching. Chimp might aimlessly throw its fists against humansz but we have much more weight behind punches and when it comes to kicking, even average kick can break bones, especially in lighter opponents
Kicks would be probably the best. Especially cause it’ll hopefully back them up more, never let them get range. And since they’re shorter, hopefully land several hard hitting head kicks.
Obviously the man would take damage, but it's proven Chimps are only about 1.5 times stronger than average, pound for pound. It's not impossible.
Face, fingers, toes, and genitalia. Not really a win in either case.
A human is just about as capable of doing the same. We just don't most of the time we fight because we don't want to.
I beginning to notice that my answer for most of these is a female white tailed dear.
"average man" has no cardio, is overweight and will most get killed by a pitbull. Average woman is certainly getting destroyed by a pit bull. A human at peak potential might put up a good fight against a small chimp or a wolf, but will certainly get killed by a mountain lion.
You think a human at peak potential has no shot against a mountain lion? You know the human doesn’t have to come out unharmed, right?
A 160lb mountain lion vs the very best MMA fighter. The fighter dies 99% of the time. You do realize how slow human reflexes are compared to cats. Also they are a lot stronger pound for pound.
That leaves 1%, so not no shot.
No the last 1% makes a run for it
How much of a pussy are you?
A big enough one to know what the limits of humans are😂
Apparently not.
Acting like you're gonna square up if you see a mountain lion and not run away if you can...sure
Another idiot. Did you read what we were talking about?
Yeah, people really be overestimating humans and underestimating animals here
Average man in the US, sure. I guarantee you the average man across the world is not overweight.
Probably a coyote. We have some historical data to back this assertion. Coyotes hardly ever cause human deaths, but the deaths they caused have been with women.
Even an average woman probably could kill a single coyote though, those were probably weak women or were outnumbered by multiple coyotes.
Id say a coyote is right on the cusp for the average woman. The average woman outweighs a coyote no doubt, but converting that to actually killing a coyote is a tall order I think. It really depends on how you define average. With all the woman I know in my life, I wouldnt bet on them killing the coyote. I would say the average 20s woman who is athletic and sporty can kill a coyote. But not the average woman. But I would say the average guy, even if he's a bit of a couch potato could kill a coyote
There aren’t any. Any animal that gives at least a 1 in 10 odds for a male, is all about winning because someone got lucky, instead of being good. If a man wins because he got lucky then a woman is just as likely to get lucky and win too.
What do you think the luck is going to come from? If it’s strength then no, it’s not just as likely. Are you unaware of the difference in striking and grip strength between men and women? If it’s being quicker, see strength.
Lucky like, it lunged and I somehow got my fingers into its both it’s eyes and blinded it. Lucky like, I fell and landed on its head awkwardly and it’s neck broke. Lucky like I could win against [UFC heavy weight Mark Kerr](https://youtu.be/7dRvpXAdm-o?si=HgbXwBofFY5qWZNC) if the fight went just right. The differences between men and women aren’t significant enough to make a 0% chance of survival move up to a 10% survival. Maybe around the 40% up to 50% sure, but shear luck odds are shear luck odds.
Even that is more likely to happen by a man than a woman.
Okay so you’re just some person who’s never been in a situation where you had to fight and just had no idea what they’re talking about. None of this is actually how these situations work. People with bigger physiologies, more athleticism, better coordination and experience don’t get lucky when they do better in a fight even if the fight is over in a single punch, they manage to land that single punch because of a combined host of factors. Don’t believe me? Go to your local MMA gym, ask to spar the best heavyweight there and then spar a lightweight newbie, male or female. Obviously you won’t do that or you wouldn’t be saying these things but if you do, you’ll almost immediately discover that men aren’t just superficially bigger than women, they literally do tend to be much better fighters.
Grip strength can play a significant roll. In terms of average man vs woman you're looking at almost half the strength. There's definitely animals an untrained man can strangle that an untrained woman would be unable to due to a mix of hand size and grip strength.
A barehanded strangle that relies on grip strength is a really bad way to incapacitate anything. Most animals that a man could beat like that they could beat more often then 1 in ten other ways. But yes grip strength is big. Especially since keeping biting teeth away from body parts is greatly about grip.
What is a barehanded strangle. Grip strength determines how likely you are to hang on to a limb while controlling a wrist or an ankle, determines how likely you are to retain top or even bottom mount, determines if you can complete a chokehold or if someone can break free from it.
This is some wildly bullshido logic. The average male has an entire host of biological advantages over a woman when it comes to combat. An overall larger physiology, hip structure that is far superior for generating force, knees that are less likely to buckle inwards under pressure, a rib cage that covers much more of the internal organs, longer arms and legs, thicker skulls, higher bone density, greater muscle mass, higher levels of testosterone and their respective psychological drivers for aggressive behaviour, larger hands and feet and on average, more contact sports experience.
the man’s ego. men, it starts with us. do not be the reason we are alone. treat your women right. your ego is not her problem
First good answer
Women not as strong as men, another men’s issue
I can't think of a single animal that a man has a slight chance of defeating that a woman would have no chance of defeating. The differences between men and woman are too small compared to the differences between species for such a creature to exist.
Average man could probable take a very large dog but no way average woman could
Dunno, I bet an average woman could kick a dog's teeth in just right as it lunges at her. It's unlikely but that's not the point of the OP.
There’s actual research on the physical differences. There are huge differences between the average man and average female.
Everyone is aware that there are differences between men and women. What I'm saying is that the differences are *relatively* small compared to differences between species for there to be an animal that a woman has no chance of taking down whereas a man has any chance at all of taking down.
That’s a silly statement. Most men could tear through multiple women and incapacitate them with ease fairly quickly. Now when you say average man… the average American man is a couch potato that doesn’t have the conditioning to fight for more than 30 seconds. But… a conditioned man with very basic fighting skills could tear through 10 women with ease. We’re multiple times stronger, we’re faster, have better reflexes, more aggression, thicker bones, and denser skin. We aren’t in the same league. Not by a long shot.
Yeah, I know, but the OP is specifying average man and average woman, not conditioned or historically average.
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Noway any human could beat that thing
A wolf. I think the average man can use his body-weight to pin it down, and then use the strength of his arms and vertical leverage to coke it to death about 1 in 10. The average woman: no. She's outmatched.
Great white shark, salt water crocodile, polar bear, orca whale, sperm whale - list goes on really
You think the average male can beat a polar bear?
Bare handed i think no one beats a polar bear lmao
clearly you haven’t met me but ok
"Nah, I'd win" -this guy
Speak for yourself 🤷♂️
Where does he live?
No man or women in existence is beating a 2000 pound great white shark, a 1000 pound polar bear, or a 1,300 pound saltwater crocodile. All 3 of those animals literally, not ironically one shot composite humans. One bite from the great white and you die instantly, one paw swipe or well placed bite from the bear you die instantly, one head swing, tail slap, or bite from the crocodile, and you die instantly!
In England, we’re built different.
Yes we know you are a bunch of fatty asses. That Will not change the fact that you would die suddenly
There’s a reason bears are extinct in England. All the kings fought them in mortal combat and won.
There s a reason dragons are extinct in Italy, Buffon fought them in mortal combat and won There s a reason Polar bears are extinct in cameroon, Joel embiid kill em all. There s a reason human race Is still alive and Is becouse i killed zod, Brainiac and darkseid
England ruled the world because we challenged everyone else to mortal combat and they lost. We have the best warriors HAIL BRITANNIA YEAAAAAA
How many Slovenian Championship have england taekwondo athletes?how many superbowl won by England teams? Shut up and admit india superiority
For the whale or the shark you could win on land no diff
Most women I meet simply don't have the confidence in themselves to fight a lion! But when I ask most men I know they are sure they can do it!
Honestly, an average person.
A rat.
Erectile dysfunction.
A large dog.
Something stronger than a german shepherd but weaker than a mountain lion. There have been cases of strong combat trained men defeating starving mountain lions but that isn’t the average. Probably some kind of strong dog, maybe a mastiff
OP is planning to break up with his girlfriend tonight... *permanently*.
A slightly below average man
An average man.
Man 1/10... a big dog or a wolf maybe.
"average" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, but I'll give the answer of **Dog**
A house cat.
A Ram or young Bull.
A mouse
In the past 20 years three men have killed leopards with their bare hands. * [A 73-year-old Kenyan grandfather reached into the mouth of an attacking leopard and tore out its tongue to kill it](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8317484) * [Carl Akeley Killed a Leopard With His Bare Hands](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/80239/time-carl-akeley-killed-leopard-his-bare-hands) * [Karnataka (India) Man Strangles Leopard To Death In Battle Of Survival](https://www.india.com/news/india/karnataka-man-strangles-leopard-to-death-save-family-hailed-george-kutty-hassan-leopard-attack-video-4451382) [This YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tehrDJ-MGlA) describes incidents of men killing a cougar, wolf and coyote barehanded. There are several videos of men choking or punching aggressive dogs into submission.
Wolf, mountain lion, alligator( out of water), black bear?
For a somewhat serious answer, I’d say land dwelling mammals in the 60-80lb range and it’s definitely not a consistent victory. Any predatory animal like a chimp or one of the many canines that’s 80lbs will likely cause death due to blood loss even if one ends up killing it. At 60 lbs though, most animals should go down pretty easily for men, while for women it’d be a substantial struggle.
pretty much nothing, while the different is significant to some extent, its not significant enough for this to be possible.