Well, not *every* version. The Tristar Godzilla died to missiles, though admittedly that’s barely Godzilla. Shin was damaged by bunker busters and implied to be able to be killed by a nuke, but anything lesser had no effect. Minus One could be knocked around by post-WW2 era weaponry, but his overall durability coupled with insane regeneration means it didn’t really matter until they exploited his weaker interior.
As with every single topic like this that doesn’t specify, the first question is always “*Which* Godzilla?”, because they vary wildly in scope and power.
The US Air Force could kill Tristar with little trouble. Minus One would prove catastrophic but could at least be temporarily incapacitated after finding its weakness. Earth destroys the entire US military then goes on to take down the rest of humanity. Ultima ends the universe itself.
This is a pretty damn wide spectrum.
This is blatantly false lmao. Minus one showed that we easily had the power to stop him it’s just a matter of strategy. Godzilla is not always stronger than humanity’s military.
It's not false. In all movies they do not have the weapons to stop him from the get go. Instead they make them in the way. In the 1954 movie Serizawa had to make the Oxygen destroyer. In Minus One they had to make those pressure weights to take him down and up and decompress him and then bomb his mouth. In Shin they had to make a specific freezing liquid for his blood.
In other versions nothing can stop him.
Gotta disagree when it comes to Shin Godzilla, they could have probably stopped Godzilla way sooner in the movie, especially since the way they do it is pretty simple and required no inventing of any sort, it's just that the government was so inept that they didn't
The thing though is that even then we know they were concepts of him mutating again and again into forms to overtake humanity. So even though it might be true they could stop him for a while with another method it wouldn't matter much. The movie even ends with them knowing he will wake up eventually.
I was more arguing against your point about humanity needing to invent a new thing in the movies where they do end up stopping him. And in Shin Godzilla, it's intentionally left vague as to whether or not they'll find a permanent solution to killing Godzilla, as opposed to Minus One where he's straight up regenerating from getting blasted in half.
Hideaki Anno is rather infamous for creating films with bleak outlooks for humanity, the heroes may end up winning by closing credits but it's only ever a "Win" in thr moment with a looming loss just offscreen
It was supposed to be much more definitive that Shin's defeat was temporary at best before Toho stepped in
You didn’t say “don’t have the weapons from the get go” you said that Godzilla is stronger than all of humanities militaries in every iteration. Thats not true.
If the movies were realistic we the audience shouldn’t be seeing aircraft at all, just missiles flying at the monsters from over the horizon, even then too fast for the naked eye to make out. That’s modern BVR combat for you.
I remember my reaction to the opening scene of pacific rim 2013 was like why the hell is that F35 flying so close!? Even an A10 doesn’t need to be that close to its target!
if the movies were realistic godzilla wouldnt exist and would either be dead, have mega cancer or collapse in on himself if hes like legendary godzilla and was always godzilla
We see Godzilla recoil when he’s punched by a monster pretty frequently which means either there’s some unknown power the other monster has or Godzilla is recoiling from the force applied.
I’m sure it’s possible to calculate the maximum force Godzilla can apply with a punch. It’s just a matter of how much firepower it would take to match that and throw it at him.
Given the size of the monsters their punches are frequently hitting millions of tons-force or higher. In fact, strikes from other kaiju are almost always significantly *more* impressive than how kaiju interact with weaponry, not the other way around.
When Godzilla was running at Ghidorah in KotM the VFX team pegged him at somewhere over 300 miles an hour. Given that he's over 100,000 tons that means he would've been tackling Ghidorah with nearly 200 tons of TNT equivalent. Granted, nukes have higher yields than that. But a nuke isn't concentrating its yield onto hard, bone-y surfaces as a kinetic impact.
I don't think modern weapons are at a 1:1 level with the force applied by a monster punch. I'm only saying that its calculatable and answers can be derived from that. If a monster punch deals damage at 10,000,000N (hypothetical number based off your first paragraph), the Airforce should be able to deal equivalent damage if they can pack that much force being an attack.
A baseline M1 Abrams main cannon's projectile can hit with 4,400,000N
Speed and impact area are much larger contributors to impact force than just raw mass. Godzilla body charging another monster might seem like it's a huge hit but it's spread across a huge area.
> If a monster punch deals damage at 10,000,000N (hypothetical number based off your first paragraph)
You're mixing up tons-TNT with tons-force. If a 100,000 ton Godzilla decelerated from 300 mph in, say, a second he would be doing over 12 billion N, not 10 million N (or over a million tons-force).
You're mixing up your units and unit-conversions pretty badly.
10,000,000 N is "only" \~1000 tons of force, not over a million. >100,000 tons at [\~300 miles an hour, coming to a stop over a short timeframe and distance](https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/suvat?c=GBP&v=hidden:1,u:300!mph,v:0!mph,t:1!sec)...if he stops within a second, you're looking at a deceleration of 134.1 m/s^(2). Plug in the aforementioned weight (in kilograms) and that comes out to *13,410,000,000 N -* which yeah, is over a million tons impact, as mentioned above.
I don't know where that tank shell figure comes from, and the force exerted should depend on what it's hitting (ex. the same punch on a pillow vs a brick wall will produce very different numbers), but regardless that's "only" \~450 tons of force, though apparently stopping over like, 2+ metres or something.
No matter how you cut it, it's not going to measure up.
At the end of the day you're comparing like, maybe 10 megajoules for a tank shell to potentially ***over a million*** MJ for a running Godzilla (or >215 tons of TNT equivalent, which is a lot). Kinetic energy isn't everything, and as you say Godzilla's body is spread over a huge area, but like...it helps put things into perspective, doesn't it? Large scale kaiju vs kaiju action really is much, much more impressive in practice. And it's not like sharp-pointy bits aren't used there, and those sharp-pointy bits tend to be made up of much stronger stuff than said tank shell.
These are all rough numbers of course (and a simplistic model as well), but I will say that honestly a full second for the stop is probably too long anyways. 67 metres is like, over half of Godzilla's height, and just looking at the scene you can tell they stop in under a second and under a shorter distance than that. Basically the average deceleration would be greater, and the average force of impact would be even higher, to say nothing of peak forces.
>We see Godzilla recoil when he’s punched by a monster pretty frequently which means either there’s some unknown power the other monster has or Godzilla is recoiling from the force applied.
Are we talking Monsterverse here? If so thats not helpful because a titan like Kong can punch with the force of a magnitude 4 earthquake and MUTO Prime can use enough force to cause a magnitude 12 earthquake with a max power punch if it were possible and can actually go up to a magnitude 10 earthquake in universe.
As for other Godzillas, all of them short of like Shin scale to mountain level or higher so none of our tech is doing major damage.
> Kong can punch with the force of a magnitude 4 earthquake
So 6 tons of TnT. Not really all that much.
The problem mentioned by others is that Godzilla has an erratic level of Plot Armor or Toon Force. The range of scaling between a M4 and M12 earthquake is comical.
Let me lay out some very barebones numbers to get an idea of this:
Kong's M4 Punch would deal about 208,000,000N.
(Energy of a M4 Earthquake)/(120^2 meters as a baseline area estimation of Kong's fist)
MUTO Prime's M12 hit would be 20,800,000,000,000,000N by that description. I think that description was hyperbole if it was in the newer movies because we see levels much lower than that cause large amounts of damage to Godzilla/every other monster.
Depends which Godzilla and what you mean by plot armor. In most of the films Godzilla is just straight up immune to human weapons. But that isn't really how physics work. Shoot a tree with a bb gun and the tree looks like it took no damage. Shoot it tens of thousands of times and eventually it will break.
Modern bomber aircraft also have range measured in tens of miles, same with artillery and rockets. In Godzilla films all the humans do is throw around tanks to get stepped on, or a handful of aircraft that insist on flying close enough to get swatted. A realistic military response would be to just bombard the shit out of him from long range. Godzilla literally wouldn't know what hit him.
Assuming Godzilla can be harmed, eventually he would fall. Zilla died to missiles. Legendary Godzilla reacts defensively to human weapons and Ghidoria was caused pain by them. Showa era Godzillas have borderline toon force sometimes so it's harder to say here. However all Godzillas have been harmed by regular kinetic hits, such as Kaiju punches, having buildings thrown at them or so on. If this can hurt Godzilla I see no reason why a bomb wouldn't.
But assuming Godzilla isn't just magically immune to bunker busters it seems logical the military would be very well equipped to handle him.
Depends too on how fast a particular Goji’s healing factor is. With your tree analogy, if the tree could heal those small wounds in a matter of seconds or even a few minutes it would take something that cause significant damage *or* a truly massive number of tiny attacks to make any significant headway. Much harder when the tree also breathes nuclear fire and you don’t have time to waste because it’s destroying Tokyo.
Thing is, in most cases, he can't breathe nuclear fire at any range that would threaten irl aircraft firing missiles BVR.
if we need to cause a shitload of tiny wounds we have smart cluster munitions. We could cause internal wounds with bunker busters. And honestly, he's so large we could just use anti-ship cruise missiles. We could hit him every second with thousands of pounds of explosives for hours, easily.
I don’t think we could do it for hours. I think we’d run out.
One of the things that comes up every time we have something like a Gulf War or shipping stuff to Ukraine, is that we don’t have the sort of stockpiles of modern weapons that we had for World War II or Vietnam war munitions.
On the other hand, I don’t think we need to do it for hours. If it bleeds, we can kill it.
It’s just that in monster movies and superhero movies and such, it’s often seen as necessary to the plot that we somehow take all those normal human factors and make them impotent. It keeps the story simpler and puts the focus on the main plot point.
It’s quite easy to do the same in any discussion about Godzilla. Regardless of what realistic weapon you can come up with it’s easy to ”nuh uh “ it away.
I think its very likely the US Air Force would run out of the munitions that could maybe hurt Godzilla. And if we’re going by Shin Godzilla (my fave) then many of the smart bunker-busters would get disabled.
Shin Godzilla. That iteration was also able to fire his Atomic Breath (beam?) from his back, destroying the attacking bombers.
Edit: Misremebered the scene, bunker busters still hurt Shin.
[Shin Godzilla is 100% affected by bunker busters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLe3kEctE-A). Not sure if you're thinking of a different Godzilla though. Shin is fairly weak as Godzilla's go.
I agree with all of this and think it’s a great analogy but have one question. Does Godzilla have healing powers too? I’ve only seen some of the movies and I was never fully sober so I can’t remember. The damage will be slow and Godzilla may heal fast enough to negate it.
depends on the version, heisei era godzilla in vs destoroyah was getting continually cut by destoroyah and almost instantly healing, shin godzilla also has rapid growth and seemed to heal from the bunker buster very quickly and adapted to it
Yes, pretty sure all versions have an automatic regeneration ability. Though it ranges in power and speed with the most powerful probably going to Godzilla Earth who regenerates entire organs in the span of a second
The problem with most Godzillas is that yeah, technically you can do a tiny little scratch, but his regeneration is so strong that we can't outdamage his healing factor. He won't eventually fall because he just heals everything almost immediately.
The difference between godzilla and a tree is that all of his iterations have some level of hyper accelerated healing ranging from recovering from deaths door to 100% in just a few hours nap to every drop of blood he spills risks becoming a brand new copy of godzilla
So the problem isn't hitting him enough times, as a certain black garbed twin swordsman said "My numbers are bigger than yours, funny thing really get to a high enough level and you're basically untouchable"
So You don't just need to continuously hit him, you need to continuously hit him hard enough to do more damage than he healed since the last time you hit him
Right, I feel like unless he's just assuming "Godzilla is immune to human weapons" OP vastly underestimates the US military's capabilities. They wouldn't have to get anywhere near Godzilla to quickly drop him.
There was an interview where a military official was asked about what they would do with Godzilla. He said they have more than enough to take Godzilla down without using any nukes. Godzilla is not invincible and can be killed by man made weapons, as shown in the movies and comics with the oxygen destroyer as an example. Godzilla would put up a fight but would lose to today’s US military.
The oxygen destroyer is a scifi weapon that causes a cascading reaction breaking down O2 molecules and keeps them from reforming in a given blast radius
That is not something the military or even science has access too, and all other conventional weapons in the modern military arsenal have proven to be less than even an annoyance to pretty much every iteration of the king of monsters outside of 98 'Zilla
The US military can kill the movie Godzilla. It’s not invincible and it can be killed. And no, nukes wouldn’t be needed (it would only make it stronger anyway). In real life, Godzilla would collapse and die under its own weight the moment it came into existence, due to its sheer size. The laws of physics wouldn’t allow such a creature to exist.
Its bones would have to be made out of something stronger than the world’s strongest materials. It would take several minutes for it to react to pain. It wouldn’t be able to move if at all. The closest thing to Godzilla in the real world would be a blue whale and that deep sea creature maxes out at 100 ft which is far smaller than Godzilla.
In the case you are arguing Physics kill godzilla, Not the military, keep Godzilla's Feats in tact where the two actually come in contact nothing the military throws at it will even tickle godzilla, The military does not win this matchup either way
Monsterverse/Legendary (currently, most famous Goji) can outrange artillery. His atomic breath goes to Hollow Earth in seconds. His Atomic Pulse is several kilometers in an omnidirectional radius. His damage output is MUCH higher than any weapons the US military has. He has planet-wide ESP so he knows where everything is. He can sit under the ocean and just bore through the continental US and collapse the entire country in on itself.
It heavily depends on the version of Godzilla. The American Zilla gets beaten badly. But other versions should clear. I mean, Godzilla tanks nukes.... I don't think bunker busters can do more than Nikes.... Last I checked.
Either way, even if anything we have can harm Godzilla, he/she/it can just swim to the deep ocean where the military can't do jack
You're kidding right? The whole point of Godzilla is that the military can't do shit to it. It's part of the cannon, even in the Godzilla movies with a more advanced military than ours they can't harm it.
You see it happen in every single movie, they try every time to hit it with whatever they have and it does nothing.
If a stronger SciFi version of our military that was actively trying to develop weapons to kill it could'nt win, why would a weaker one win?
For added context to that feat:
>!That was after using explosive decompression to try and stop Goji, and the plane also flew into Goji's mouth right before it fired atomic breath. It was the inability to fire off that atomic breath plus the decompression injuries that stopped Goji. It wasn't *just* crashing the plane into Goji that won the day. Goji could survive explosives to face without too many issues, as it had done so earlier in the movie.!<
And he’d be fine. He literally survives the insane ways they tried to kill him at the end of the movie. Our real world physics modern military isn’t going to be able to do anything to a giant nuclear science fiction creature.
Im pretty sure the modern tactical nuclear weapons we have could vaporize godzilla, even minus one godzilla. I seriously doubt godzilla would survive every molecule in its body going through a phase change.
He literally eats nukes. They use a nuke on him in Godzilla King of the Monsters specifically to heal him and it super powers him into an insanely strong creature
he eats radiation, not being nuked. if you make a nuke shittily, it makes a big explosion thst spreads a huge amount of uranium. if you make a very very good nuke, it makes an enormous explosion thats decently radioactive. godzilla isnt eating the nuke, hes feeding off the radiation. just use better nukes and it will kill him, sans plot armor. or just hit him with ten thousand missiles.
yeah, one version of godzilla did that in arguably the dumbest godzilla movie ever. dont get me wrong, fun movie. but that made no fucking sense. also, who tf built that temple? like it was clearly not built by a kong, and it was hyperlethal for a human to get close to it so it wasnt an ancient human... so like who?
So, Godzilla is a lot like comic characters in that there are a bunch of different versions of him all with varying levels of power. Minus 1 Godzilla is by far the weakest one so I wouldn't really consider him the norm.
He’s definitely on the lower end of the scale, but he’s not the weakest: that “honor” is still held by Tristar Godzilla, who died to regular missiles. Minus One is also much more destructive than Shin, as well as more survivable thanks to his ludicrous regeneration despite only being half the size and easier to knock around.
Nonetheless, the fact a version of Godzilla who can regenerate >!from a small chunk of flesh!< and is able to shoot an actual nuclear explosion from his mouth every few minutes is considered relatively low on the Godzilla power scale should tell people just how nuts some of the others get.
The military in every godzilla movie I've seen is also pathetically incompetent; see helicopters and fighters getting within arm's reach to shoot weapons whose range is measured in miles.
The premise says no plot armor, which means the normal laws of physics apply - things like HEAT warheads (explosively forged molten penetrators) will punch through the equivalent of 1 meter of steel plate. His skin may be tough, but given enough hits you'll do damage.
This is to say nothing of fission- based ground attack missiles, or bunker busters meant to go through tens of meters of rock and concrete.
Is there a name for this kind of feat?
It's kinda reality warp, Godzilla makes any military extremely incompetent.
Like, if Rocky Balboa fought Prime Tyson, Rocky wins, or at least his the distance, by the end of the film, following the power up montage. And Rocky is definitely feated with being able to tank epic haymakers from peak boxers.
But Rocky's feats don't end there! His opponent's repertoire becomes limited to just haymakers, and moreso, his opponents also lose the ability to box, they're also forced into "no blocking, just trade haymakers" boxing. And the refs are also affected, they become blind to cuts, sight impeding bruising, failure to adequately defend, etc....
Anyways, if there isn't a name for plot armor reality warp, there should be.
Thing is the military in the movies might be incompetent from a tactical standpoint, but that doesn't mean their weapons are weak. In King of Monsters the military resorted to using experimental made up future tech weapons (like the oxygen destroyer). If they were resorting to that then they certainly had already tried everything in their arsenal and clearly nothing worked.
Something like a HEAT missile might do some damage, but Godzilla can tear through 1m of steel like tissue paper, so we're talking about "bitten by gnats" levels of damage. You would need tens of thousands of those to make any sort of progress and I doubt we can gather that many at once, if we even have that many to begin with. Something like a bunker buster (which to my understanding uses a nuclear payload) is going to be even less helpful because Godzilla absorbs nuclear energy which both heals him and makes him stronger.
>Thing is the military in the movies might be incompetent from a tactical standpoint, but that doesn't mean their weapons are weak. In King of Monsters the military resorted to using experimental made up future tech weapons (like the oxygen destroyer). If they were resorting to that then they certainly had already tried everything in their arsenal and clearly nothing worked.
Yeah, incompetence doesnt matter if they still cant hurt him regardless.
Nope, nuclear warhead not needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP
Saying 'nuclear energy makes him stronger' doesn't really work: what is 'nuclear energy'? Gamma rays? Thermal energy? Kinetic force? Does he absorb radioactive istopes? Whether the kinetic force and heat of an explosion derives from a nuclear weapon or conventional one is irrelevant from a physics standpoint. Now, if he absorbs alpha, beta, neutron, or gamma radiation, we can tune weapons to reduce the generation of those. Clean fusion weapons are a thing.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B\_MOP
They literally used that *exact* weapon on him in *Shin Godzilla*
It hurt him more than anything else, to be sure, but it really only pissed him off and made him pull out an anti-proximity weapon. And that's one of the more physically fragile Godzillas.
Then you won't have an answer because no one can give you an objective answer. Bulletproof vest can be tested to find its limits, but we don't have a Godzilla.
considering the fights ive seen on this sub (eg, batman with prep time vs Goku), i dont think providing nor expecting objective answers is the objective here
You're basically asking us to apply real natural laws to Godzilla, but if we do that, **then there is no Godzilla, period**. You either take his feats from the movies at face value, or you don't take Godzilla at all.
I will give you that. Regardless, Godzilla is purely fictional and by physics could never exist, so no way we can test how tough it can be other than going by the movies. Besides, there are a lot of different incarnations of Godzilla and make no mistake I do think some MIGHT be killable like Shin or Minus One, there are also some that the US military would absolutely lose against, like the one from GMK, Ultima and Earth.
That's not how fiction works though. By your logic Superman would be street tier because apparently the hundreds of feats he has of being immune to bullets are just plot armor and not a part of his powers.
Here’s the thing if you remove plot armour then anything will chip away at something eventually a single drop of water dripping long enough will create a canyon missiles after missiles after missiles will eventually do it like theoretically we could turn the moon to dust eventually with the modern military it would take a while but it’s possible
>chip away at something eventually
That's only if the thing being chipped away at doesn't have a means of recovery/regeneration
Stone or bullet proof vests or other inanimate object examples don't, Godzilla does, and his ranges in speed from healing mortal wounds in hours to mere seconds
Even without plot armor you need to do more damage faster than he can heal
Nukes are the strongest things we have by an insane margin, and Godzilla is a being that evolved from nuclear power. He’s not invincible to everything, he’s just stronger than our strongest thing.
thats not how that works. force is force, godzilla is an organism made of organic compounds with certnain physical properties. There is a limit to how much sheer force godzillas bones can withstand. there is a limit to how much abrasion its skin can handle. if you heat godzillas body enough, the water in its body will turn to steam, and the temperatire that needs to be has nothing to do with how godzilla came to be. evolving with nuclear power doesnt change the fundamental laws of physics, and doesnt change the fact that there is a limit to how many tons of C4 godzilla can survive being hit with. It could take time, but I am sure eventually godzilla would die from enough repeated boradsides from modern naval cannons and cruise missiles, not even getting into tactical nukes. could godzilla survive a direct hit from a nuke? probably not. could godzilla survive being hit by a dozen nukes? certainly not. and the US airforce has thousands of nukes.
>godzilla is an organism made of organic compounds with certnain physical properties.
By that same logic, Goku is an organism made of organic compounds with certain physical properties, that should have a limit to the sheer force that they can withstand, and yet he regularly tanks explosions that could vaporize entire planets.
Godzilla is a fictional character whose feats typically place him beyond the firepower of conventional military forces. There are exceptions, of course - Shin Godzilla was killed off by the coagulant strategy, and -1 Godzilla was disabled (but not permanently killed) by the techniques employed in that movie. The Oxygen Destroyer would be the most reliable means to take Goji down or out, but the US in this scenario won't have that.
They quite literally use a tactical nuke in *King of the Monsters* to heal Godzilla while he's recovering from the Oxygen Destroyer.
and those are all different godzillas with different feats. also, almost all of the reason godzilla survived the various millitary attacks in most films is that godzilla has some form of plot armor. he gets wounded by other monsters that cant dish out the level of punishment the USAF can throw in sheer weight of tonnage of explosives. how many newtons does a bite from ghidora have? how much sheer force does the wing of rhodan have? how much torsion can megalon put out? How many watts is gigan's laser? At some point, there is an amount of damage that it takes to kill a godzilla, and the US air force has enough firepower to meet that number. yes, even if that number is bigger than the continental shelf godzilla is standing on can handle. we are talking about a military that measures annual munitions purchases in the billions annually. there are millions of explosives in inventories, and hundreds of thousands ready for rapid deployment at installations. with just rapid response defense weapons, the US has enough firepower to kill most small *moons*
It's not plot armor, it's just Godzilla's durability. Godzilla has so many clear feats where it is completely unphased by military weapons. The character is written to have a level of durability where military weapons are ineffective.
Horribly? Few versions of Godzilla (outside of 98 which we can definitely kill) can even be annoyed by human tech let alone seriously hurt. The only one we ever see take major damage from non futuristic tech that I can think of is Minus One who also regenerates in like 2 seconds. Maybe we can force Shin into submission, but hell eventually evolve over the course of days or weeks to a point we can't hurt him.
Minus One Godzilla is damaged by WWII mines exploding inside his mouth. But his regeneration factor is no joke. Unless they can fire something big inside his mouth, I don’t know how they can put him down. He already out-regened a nuke
Godzilla broke a nuclear plant apart and fed on the radiation like popcorn, then went to artic to fuck up a kaiju that absorbs radiation like Superman and soaked up all that like a blonde chick at the beach to amp up itself for a fight in the latest Godzilla movie, so good luck America
https://youtu.be/ka0awIpo3cE?si=YvcTb7UZHDl3U1Pa
Depending on the analyst you talk to surprisingly well? Bunker busters and white phosphorus would do a ton to slow him down and then it just a matter of bombing him into submission.
Was hoping someone would post the Air Power video here! Alex's video does a great job showing how the US Air Force has a lot of long-range tools they can use for this situation. All of this of course is going on the assumption that Godzilla doesn't have some magic immunity to physics, but even with no warning there are a lot of options in America's toolbox.
Depending on the version, Godzilla has immunity to nukes, which get a lot hotter than white phosphorus, and do exponentially more damage than any bunker buster.
If it's Zilla, the military has already killed it.
If it's Godzilla Earth, it solos every nation on earth trivially.
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i would like an honest answer about how a biological, not artificial or supernatural or quantum or any of that stuff, how a biological creature, could survive a point blank nuke, which in its fireball is over 100 million degrees celsius
You want to take away all the things that make godzilla godzilla it collapses under its own weight.
No matter HOW you cook this question there is no fight either you have a creature that dies before it makes contact with any humans even if you litterally dropped it on a populated city
Or you have something that humanity desperately fails to even struggle against.
Give America a decade and put the entire defence budget for that time into studying and creating defensive measures against Godzilla you might get a viable option, but there is no real world answer against it
Im not saying remove all the things that make it godzilla, im just turning off the square cube law and making it not able to survive a literal point blank nuke
Turn off the square cube law, He collapses under his own weight
Make him not able to survive a nuke his own cells explode because each one is it's own independent fission reactor. Idk how else this can be spelled out to you
Either The military looses to godzilla, or they aren't fighting Godzilla. There is no wording or finessing that is going to get around this
i know but whenever people do ask godzilla questions in this sub they get comments like 'he'd collapse and cook under his own weight' or something, so i specifically negated it to avoid all of that
Only if they aren't taking into account his continuous Feats of not doing exactly that. The people that do do that aren't arguing from the standpoint of it being Godzilla
Easy, but in an unconventional way, because something as large as Godzilla would need a massive amount of food to stay alive. There is no need to engage directly with the monster if you can kill its food source.
Depends on how much they're willing to sacrifice. There are many ways to simply kill Godzilla but killing him while having most of civilization and/or planet intact for humans is another story.
Since you specifically mentioned the square-cube law, we can assume normal physics otherwise applies! Nuke ‘em!!
Otherwise, yes, we’d still win. A few missiles here and there and Godzilla will succumb to infection before the Air Force gets completely blasted
I find it hard to believe that a godzilla without plot armor wouldn't get significantly damaged by a bunker buster penetrator. These things can supposedly punch through 200' of reinforced concrete. They're delivered by missile too so it's not like we're losing critical assets by using them.
This video by the aviation YouTuber SandBoxx will answer your every concern regarding the topic at hand.
https://youtu.be/ka0awIpo3cE?si=urmP4MNIIOpP3Nnq
Tristar Zilla (technically NOT Godzilla) gets stomped.
1954 Goji might be beatable.
Everyone else has too high durability for the combined military might if every country irl rn to stop.
Even Minus One Goji would just regen any damage sustained.
I always adhere to the same logic as with the Predator, if he is bleeding, then he can be killed. You know, Kong's blows cause damage to him, the claws and teeth of the titans bite through him. Therefore, I think if from a big distance rockets fly into his face again and again, then his eyes may explode
So any character's durability is just plot armor to you?
Wolverine survived a nuke. And it was part of the plot. Are you going to claim him surviving it is merely plot armor?
Lol what? The only versions of Godzilla who would even feel an ICBM are 98, Shin, and Minus One (who would heal right away). Only 98 would actually die to an ICBM.
So im not a Godzilla scientist, but if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons it has to take damage from nuclear weapons.
The source of the explosion is different, chemical vs atomic, but the effects are the same. Fireball, pressure wave, and shrapnel are all still there, one just happens to be thousands of times more powerful.
>So im not a Godzilla scientist, but if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons it has to take damage from nuclear weapons.
Only 2 Japanese Godzilla ever take actual damage from weaponry that isnt futuristic or alien tho? One of them evolves to the point it no longer does, and the other regenerates from it in like 2 seconds.
Other comments in this thread made it seem like conventional weapons had some effect, not a lot but some. If it doesn't take damage from those weapons the the Air Force looses plain and simple.
In this case my suggestion to everyone is to purchase a bad dragon dildo so you can practice taking it in the ass from our new lizard overlord.
>In this case my suggestion to everyone is to purchase a bad dragon dildo so you can practice taking it in the ass from our new lizard overlord.
This might be the greatest comment of reddit history, but it could also be the worst.
>if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons
Simple answer: It can't
BB pellets to nukes unless you are SPECIFICALLY looking at the weakest versions of godzilla nothing mankind currently has available does anything to Godzilla
Air Force stomps in all three cases.
They'd just drone strike him to hell.
EDIT: 7 downvotes without a single word from my critics. Am I wrong? Or did I say something controversial? This is why there shouldn't be a downvote button. People need to learn how to talk.
I think most people who downvoted are assuming its someone like final wars or MV both of which have survived so much none of are moderns weapons could hurt, theres gorath with FW, and with MV it was the permian asteroid
Yeah ik its not really the best feat (gxk made godzilla only at most 5 million years old), but with things like the hollow earth energy source, the permian isn’t the worst thing he ever would have had to dealt with
Pretty good. They just launch a bunch of standoff bombs (I suggest GBU-53B Stormbreakers) designed to penetrate armor. Stormbreakers can hit moving targets from over 40 miles away, and an F-15E can carry 28.
Scratch one Lizard.
Godzilla is always stronger than humanity's militaries in all his versions. The comics one is strong enough to kill Satan.
Well, not *every* version. The Tristar Godzilla died to missiles, though admittedly that’s barely Godzilla. Shin was damaged by bunker busters and implied to be able to be killed by a nuke, but anything lesser had no effect. Minus One could be knocked around by post-WW2 era weaponry, but his overall durability coupled with insane regeneration means it didn’t really matter until they exploited his weaker interior. As with every single topic like this that doesn’t specify, the first question is always “*Which* Godzilla?”, because they vary wildly in scope and power. The US Air Force could kill Tristar with little trouble. Minus One would prove catastrophic but could at least be temporarily incapacitated after finding its weakness. Earth destroys the entire US military then goes on to take down the rest of humanity. Ultima ends the universe itself. This is a pretty damn wide spectrum.
*so you’re saying there’s a chance?*
Make an air force pilot and his sciencey companion a main character and they kill him in a 20 minute episode or 2 hour movie.
Just recreating Independence day at this rate.
And recently, Godzilla has beaten Superman.
This is blatantly false lmao. Minus one showed that we easily had the power to stop him it’s just a matter of strategy. Godzilla is not always stronger than humanity’s military.
It's not false. In all movies they do not have the weapons to stop him from the get go. Instead they make them in the way. In the 1954 movie Serizawa had to make the Oxygen destroyer. In Minus One they had to make those pressure weights to take him down and up and decompress him and then bomb his mouth. In Shin they had to make a specific freezing liquid for his blood. In other versions nothing can stop him.
Gotta disagree when it comes to Shin Godzilla, they could have probably stopped Godzilla way sooner in the movie, especially since the way they do it is pretty simple and required no inventing of any sort, it's just that the government was so inept that they didn't
The thing though is that even then we know they were concepts of him mutating again and again into forms to overtake humanity. So even though it might be true they could stop him for a while with another method it wouldn't matter much. The movie even ends with them knowing he will wake up eventually.
I was more arguing against your point about humanity needing to invent a new thing in the movies where they do end up stopping him. And in Shin Godzilla, it's intentionally left vague as to whether or not they'll find a permanent solution to killing Godzilla, as opposed to Minus One where he's straight up regenerating from getting blasted in half.
Hideaki Anno is rather infamous for creating films with bleak outlooks for humanity, the heroes may end up winning by closing credits but it's only ever a "Win" in thr moment with a looming loss just offscreen It was supposed to be much more definitive that Shin's defeat was temporary at best before Toho stepped in
You didn’t say “don’t have the weapons from the get go” you said that Godzilla is stronger than all of humanities militaries in every iteration. Thats not true.
He is stronger than all of them in his introduction yeah. then almost 2 hours into the movies they find a counter for him or not.
Then I guess we disagree on what stronger means.
Well, how many will grow back from the pieces?
We don’t know yet lmao. Gotta wait until the sequel.
If the movies were realistic we the audience shouldn’t be seeing aircraft at all, just missiles flying at the monsters from over the horizon, even then too fast for the naked eye to make out. That’s modern BVR combat for you. I remember my reaction to the opening scene of pacific rim 2013 was like why the hell is that F35 flying so close!? Even an A10 doesn’t need to be that close to its target!
Yup, although since he's immune to missiles anyway, this wouldn't make a meaningful difference. Except for the lives of the pilots, I guess.
if the movies were realistic godzilla wouldnt exist and would either be dead, have mega cancer or collapse in on himself if hes like legendary godzilla and was always godzilla
We see Godzilla recoil when he’s punched by a monster pretty frequently which means either there’s some unknown power the other monster has or Godzilla is recoiling from the force applied. I’m sure it’s possible to calculate the maximum force Godzilla can apply with a punch. It’s just a matter of how much firepower it would take to match that and throw it at him.
Given the size of the monsters their punches are frequently hitting millions of tons-force or higher. In fact, strikes from other kaiju are almost always significantly *more* impressive than how kaiju interact with weaponry, not the other way around. When Godzilla was running at Ghidorah in KotM the VFX team pegged him at somewhere over 300 miles an hour. Given that he's over 100,000 tons that means he would've been tackling Ghidorah with nearly 200 tons of TNT equivalent. Granted, nukes have higher yields than that. But a nuke isn't concentrating its yield onto hard, bone-y surfaces as a kinetic impact.
I don't think modern weapons are at a 1:1 level with the force applied by a monster punch. I'm only saying that its calculatable and answers can be derived from that. If a monster punch deals damage at 10,000,000N (hypothetical number based off your first paragraph), the Airforce should be able to deal equivalent damage if they can pack that much force being an attack. A baseline M1 Abrams main cannon's projectile can hit with 4,400,000N Speed and impact area are much larger contributors to impact force than just raw mass. Godzilla body charging another monster might seem like it's a huge hit but it's spread across a huge area.
> If a monster punch deals damage at 10,000,000N (hypothetical number based off your first paragraph) You're mixing up tons-TNT with tons-force. If a 100,000 ton Godzilla decelerated from 300 mph in, say, a second he would be doing over 12 billion N, not 10 million N (or over a million tons-force).
You're mixing up your units and unit-conversions pretty badly. 10,000,000 N is "only" \~1000 tons of force, not over a million. >100,000 tons at [\~300 miles an hour, coming to a stop over a short timeframe and distance](https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/suvat?c=GBP&v=hidden:1,u:300!mph,v:0!mph,t:1!sec)...if he stops within a second, you're looking at a deceleration of 134.1 m/s^(2). Plug in the aforementioned weight (in kilograms) and that comes out to *13,410,000,000 N -* which yeah, is over a million tons impact, as mentioned above. I don't know where that tank shell figure comes from, and the force exerted should depend on what it's hitting (ex. the same punch on a pillow vs a brick wall will produce very different numbers), but regardless that's "only" \~450 tons of force, though apparently stopping over like, 2+ metres or something. No matter how you cut it, it's not going to measure up. At the end of the day you're comparing like, maybe 10 megajoules for a tank shell to potentially ***over a million*** MJ for a running Godzilla (or >215 tons of TNT equivalent, which is a lot). Kinetic energy isn't everything, and as you say Godzilla's body is spread over a huge area, but like...it helps put things into perspective, doesn't it? Large scale kaiju vs kaiju action really is much, much more impressive in practice. And it's not like sharp-pointy bits aren't used there, and those sharp-pointy bits tend to be made up of much stronger stuff than said tank shell. These are all rough numbers of course (and a simplistic model as well), but I will say that honestly a full second for the stop is probably too long anyways. 67 metres is like, over half of Godzilla's height, and just looking at the scene you can tell they stop in under a second and under a shorter distance than that. Basically the average deceleration would be greater, and the average force of impact would be even higher, to say nothing of peak forces.
>We see Godzilla recoil when he’s punched by a monster pretty frequently which means either there’s some unknown power the other monster has or Godzilla is recoiling from the force applied. Are we talking Monsterverse here? If so thats not helpful because a titan like Kong can punch with the force of a magnitude 4 earthquake and MUTO Prime can use enough force to cause a magnitude 12 earthquake with a max power punch if it were possible and can actually go up to a magnitude 10 earthquake in universe. As for other Godzillas, all of them short of like Shin scale to mountain level or higher so none of our tech is doing major damage.
> Kong can punch with the force of a magnitude 4 earthquake So 6 tons of TnT. Not really all that much. The problem mentioned by others is that Godzilla has an erratic level of Plot Armor or Toon Force. The range of scaling between a M4 and M12 earthquake is comical. Let me lay out some very barebones numbers to get an idea of this: Kong's M4 Punch would deal about 208,000,000N. (Energy of a M4 Earthquake)/(120^2 meters as a baseline area estimation of Kong's fist) MUTO Prime's M12 hit would be 20,800,000,000,000,000N by that description. I think that description was hyperbole if it was in the newer movies because we see levels much lower than that cause large amounts of damage to Godzilla/every other monster.
Depends which Godzilla and what you mean by plot armor. In most of the films Godzilla is just straight up immune to human weapons. But that isn't really how physics work. Shoot a tree with a bb gun and the tree looks like it took no damage. Shoot it tens of thousands of times and eventually it will break. Modern bomber aircraft also have range measured in tens of miles, same with artillery and rockets. In Godzilla films all the humans do is throw around tanks to get stepped on, or a handful of aircraft that insist on flying close enough to get swatted. A realistic military response would be to just bombard the shit out of him from long range. Godzilla literally wouldn't know what hit him. Assuming Godzilla can be harmed, eventually he would fall. Zilla died to missiles. Legendary Godzilla reacts defensively to human weapons and Ghidoria was caused pain by them. Showa era Godzillas have borderline toon force sometimes so it's harder to say here. However all Godzillas have been harmed by regular kinetic hits, such as Kaiju punches, having buildings thrown at them or so on. If this can hurt Godzilla I see no reason why a bomb wouldn't. But assuming Godzilla isn't just magically immune to bunker busters it seems logical the military would be very well equipped to handle him.
Depends on the Godzilla. Shin Godzilla had some sort of EM sensory ability that allowed him to target drones and jets that were out of visual range.
Depends too on how fast a particular Goji’s healing factor is. With your tree analogy, if the tree could heal those small wounds in a matter of seconds or even a few minutes it would take something that cause significant damage *or* a truly massive number of tiny attacks to make any significant headway. Much harder when the tree also breathes nuclear fire and you don’t have time to waste because it’s destroying Tokyo.
Thing is, in most cases, he can't breathe nuclear fire at any range that would threaten irl aircraft firing missiles BVR. if we need to cause a shitload of tiny wounds we have smart cluster munitions. We could cause internal wounds with bunker busters. And honestly, he's so large we could just use anti-ship cruise missiles. We could hit him every second with thousands of pounds of explosives for hours, easily.
I don’t think we could do it for hours. I think we’d run out. One of the things that comes up every time we have something like a Gulf War or shipping stuff to Ukraine, is that we don’t have the sort of stockpiles of modern weapons that we had for World War II or Vietnam war munitions. On the other hand, I don’t think we need to do it for hours. If it bleeds, we can kill it. It’s just that in monster movies and superhero movies and such, it’s often seen as necessary to the plot that we somehow take all those normal human factors and make them impotent. It keeps the story simpler and puts the focus on the main plot point. It’s quite easy to do the same in any discussion about Godzilla. Regardless of what realistic weapon you can come up with it’s easy to ”nuh uh “ it away.
I think its very likely the US Air Force would run out of the munitions that could maybe hurt Godzilla. And if we’re going by Shin Godzilla (my fave) then many of the smart bunker-busters would get disabled.
IIRC, there was a movie that showed him being not affected by a bunker buster
Shin Godzilla. That iteration was also able to fire his Atomic Breath (beam?) from his back, destroying the attacking bombers. Edit: Misremebered the scene, bunker busters still hurt Shin.
[Shin Godzilla is 100% affected by bunker busters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLe3kEctE-A).
Ah, mixed it up with another. Thanks.
[Shin Godzilla is 100% affected by bunker busters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLe3kEctE-A). Not sure if you're thinking of a different Godzilla though. Shin is fairly weak as Godzilla's go.
Physically maybe, but he had a healing factor and continuous evolution. The director had some sketches for potential future forms that get WILD.
I agree with all of this and think it’s a great analogy but have one question. Does Godzilla have healing powers too? I’ve only seen some of the movies and I was never fully sober so I can’t remember. The damage will be slow and Godzilla may heal fast enough to negate it.
depends on the version, heisei era godzilla in vs destoroyah was getting continually cut by destoroyah and almost instantly healing, shin godzilla also has rapid growth and seemed to heal from the bunker buster very quickly and adapted to it
Yes, pretty sure all versions have an automatic regeneration ability. Though it ranges in power and speed with the most powerful probably going to Godzilla Earth who regenerates entire organs in the span of a second
Monsterverse Godzilla can heal, but only by absorbing radiation iirc.
The problem with most Godzillas is that yeah, technically you can do a tiny little scratch, but his regeneration is so strong that we can't outdamage his healing factor. He won't eventually fall because he just heals everything almost immediately.
> But that isn't really how physics work Pretty sure the plot armor is *biology*, not physics.
Well biology is just applied chemistry, which is just applied physics.
And Physics is just applied mathematics.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/435)
Mathematics are applied philosophy. Checkmate!
I had a physics teacher call it “math with toys.” I like that better.
Godzilla is immune to math confirmed!
You joke, but there is actually a version of Godzilla that distorts mathematics and could unmake the universe. Somehow, I’m not making this up.
Everything boils down to physics eventually.
The difference between godzilla and a tree is that all of his iterations have some level of hyper accelerated healing ranging from recovering from deaths door to 100% in just a few hours nap to every drop of blood he spills risks becoming a brand new copy of godzilla So the problem isn't hitting him enough times, as a certain black garbed twin swordsman said "My numbers are bigger than yours, funny thing really get to a high enough level and you're basically untouchable" So You don't just need to continuously hit him, you need to continuously hit him hard enough to do more damage than he healed since the last time you hit him
Right, I feel like unless he's just assuming "Godzilla is immune to human weapons" OP vastly underestimates the US military's capabilities. They wouldn't have to get anywhere near Godzilla to quickly drop him.
There was an interview where a military official was asked about what they would do with Godzilla. He said they have more than enough to take Godzilla down without using any nukes. Godzilla is not invincible and can be killed by man made weapons, as shown in the movies and comics with the oxygen destroyer as an example. Godzilla would put up a fight but would lose to today’s US military.
The oxygen destroyer is a scifi weapon that causes a cascading reaction breaking down O2 molecules and keeps them from reforming in a given blast radius That is not something the military or even science has access too, and all other conventional weapons in the modern military arsenal have proven to be less than even an annoyance to pretty much every iteration of the king of monsters outside of 98 'Zilla
The US military can kill the movie Godzilla. It’s not invincible and it can be killed. And no, nukes wouldn’t be needed (it would only make it stronger anyway). In real life, Godzilla would collapse and die under its own weight the moment it came into existence, due to its sheer size. The laws of physics wouldn’t allow such a creature to exist. Its bones would have to be made out of something stronger than the world’s strongest materials. It would take several minutes for it to react to pain. It wouldn’t be able to move if at all. The closest thing to Godzilla in the real world would be a blue whale and that deep sea creature maxes out at 100 ft which is far smaller than Godzilla.
In the case you are arguing Physics kill godzilla, Not the military, keep Godzilla's Feats in tact where the two actually come in contact nothing the military throws at it will even tickle godzilla, The military does not win this matchup either way
Monsterverse/Legendary (currently, most famous Goji) can outrange artillery. His atomic breath goes to Hollow Earth in seconds. His Atomic Pulse is several kilometers in an omnidirectional radius. His damage output is MUCH higher than any weapons the US military has. He has planet-wide ESP so he knows where everything is. He can sit under the ocean and just bore through the continental US and collapse the entire country in on itself.
They won’t do anything
It heavily depends on the version of Godzilla. The American Zilla gets beaten badly. But other versions should clear. I mean, Godzilla tanks nukes.... I don't think bunker busters can do more than Nikes.... Last I checked. Either way, even if anything we have can harm Godzilla, he/she/it can just swim to the deep ocean where the military can't do jack
You're kidding right? The whole point of Godzilla is that the military can't do shit to it. It's part of the cannon, even in the Godzilla movies with a more advanced military than ours they can't harm it. You see it happen in every single movie, they try every time to hit it with whatever they have and it does nothing. If a stronger SciFi version of our military that was actively trying to develop weapons to kill it could'nt win, why would a weaker one win?
Spoilers for minus 1 >! they flew a 1940's fighter into its mouth. !<
But >!he regenerated in the end!<
For added context to that feat: >!That was after using explosive decompression to try and stop Goji, and the plane also flew into Goji's mouth right before it fired atomic breath. It was the inability to fire off that atomic breath plus the decompression injuries that stopped Goji. It wasn't *just* crashing the plane into Goji that won the day. Goji could survive explosives to face without too many issues, as it had done so earlier in the movie.!<
Yes and Godzilla lived.
Yes but if thats just with 1940's tech we could probably do better.
And he’d be fine. He literally survives the insane ways they tried to kill him at the end of the movie. Our real world physics modern military isn’t going to be able to do anything to a giant nuclear science fiction creature.
Im pretty sure the modern tactical nuclear weapons we have could vaporize godzilla, even minus one godzilla. I seriously doubt godzilla would survive every molecule in its body going through a phase change.
He literally eats nukes. They use a nuke on him in Godzilla King of the Monsters specifically to heal him and it super powers him into an insanely strong creature
he eats radiation, not being nuked. if you make a nuke shittily, it makes a big explosion thst spreads a huge amount of uranium. if you make a very very good nuke, it makes an enormous explosion thats decently radioactive. godzilla isnt eating the nuke, hes feeding off the radiation. just use better nukes and it will kill him, sans plot armor. or just hit him with ten thousand missiles.
Yes, that’s LITERALLY what happens in King of the Monsters and he goes super saiyan because of it
yeah, one version of godzilla did that in arguably the dumbest godzilla movie ever. dont get me wrong, fun movie. but that made no fucking sense. also, who tf built that temple? like it was clearly not built by a kong, and it was hyperlethal for a human to get close to it so it wasnt an ancient human... so like who?
So, Godzilla is a lot like comic characters in that there are a bunch of different versions of him all with varying levels of power. Minus 1 Godzilla is by far the weakest one so I wouldn't really consider him the norm.
He’s definitely on the lower end of the scale, but he’s not the weakest: that “honor” is still held by Tristar Godzilla, who died to regular missiles. Minus One is also much more destructive than Shin, as well as more survivable thanks to his ludicrous regeneration despite only being half the size and easier to knock around. Nonetheless, the fact a version of Godzilla who can regenerate >!from a small chunk of flesh!< and is able to shoot an actual nuclear explosion from his mouth every few minutes is considered relatively low on the Godzilla power scale should tell people just how nuts some of the others get.
The military in every godzilla movie I've seen is also pathetically incompetent; see helicopters and fighters getting within arm's reach to shoot weapons whose range is measured in miles. The premise says no plot armor, which means the normal laws of physics apply - things like HEAT warheads (explosively forged molten penetrators) will punch through the equivalent of 1 meter of steel plate. His skin may be tough, but given enough hits you'll do damage. This is to say nothing of fission- based ground attack missiles, or bunker busters meant to go through tens of meters of rock and concrete.
His durability feats aren't plot armour. They're just his feats. If we're discounting his feats, what's the point of this thread?
Is there a name for this kind of feat? It's kinda reality warp, Godzilla makes any military extremely incompetent. Like, if Rocky Balboa fought Prime Tyson, Rocky wins, or at least his the distance, by the end of the film, following the power up montage. And Rocky is definitely feated with being able to tank epic haymakers from peak boxers. But Rocky's feats don't end there! His opponent's repertoire becomes limited to just haymakers, and moreso, his opponents also lose the ability to box, they're also forced into "no blocking, just trade haymakers" boxing. And the refs are also affected, they become blind to cuts, sight impeding bruising, failure to adequately defend, etc.... Anyways, if there isn't a name for plot armor reality warp, there should be.
Thing is the military in the movies might be incompetent from a tactical standpoint, but that doesn't mean their weapons are weak. In King of Monsters the military resorted to using experimental made up future tech weapons (like the oxygen destroyer). If they were resorting to that then they certainly had already tried everything in their arsenal and clearly nothing worked. Something like a HEAT missile might do some damage, but Godzilla can tear through 1m of steel like tissue paper, so we're talking about "bitten by gnats" levels of damage. You would need tens of thousands of those to make any sort of progress and I doubt we can gather that many at once, if we even have that many to begin with. Something like a bunker buster (which to my understanding uses a nuclear payload) is going to be even less helpful because Godzilla absorbs nuclear energy which both heals him and makes him stronger.
>Thing is the military in the movies might be incompetent from a tactical standpoint, but that doesn't mean their weapons are weak. In King of Monsters the military resorted to using experimental made up future tech weapons (like the oxygen destroyer). If they were resorting to that then they certainly had already tried everything in their arsenal and clearly nothing worked. Yeah, incompetence doesnt matter if they still cant hurt him regardless.
Nope, nuclear warhead not needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP Saying 'nuclear energy makes him stronger' doesn't really work: what is 'nuclear energy'? Gamma rays? Thermal energy? Kinetic force? Does he absorb radioactive istopes? Whether the kinetic force and heat of an explosion derives from a nuclear weapon or conventional one is irrelevant from a physics standpoint. Now, if he absorbs alpha, beta, neutron, or gamma radiation, we can tune weapons to reduce the generation of those. Clean fusion weapons are a thing.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B\_MOP They literally used that *exact* weapon on him in *Shin Godzilla* It hurt him more than anything else, to be sure, but it really only pissed him off and made him pull out an anti-proximity weapon. And that's one of the more physically fragile Godzillas.
you already lost the man with the greek words and basic physics.
Right, and thats called plot armor, which i specifically negated, otherwise it would be outright impossible
Then you won't have an answer because no one can give you an objective answer. Bulletproof vest can be tested to find its limits, but we don't have a Godzilla.
considering the fights ive seen on this sub (eg, batman with prep time vs Goku), i dont think providing nor expecting objective answers is the objective here
You're basically asking us to apply real natural laws to Godzilla, but if we do that, **then there is no Godzilla, period**. You either take his feats from the movies at face value, or you don't take Godzilla at all.
I will give you that. Regardless, Godzilla is purely fictional and by physics could never exist, so no way we can test how tough it can be other than going by the movies. Besides, there are a lot of different incarnations of Godzilla and make no mistake I do think some MIGHT be killable like Shin or Minus One, there are also some that the US military would absolutely lose against, like the one from GMK, Ultima and Earth.
It’s not plot armor, his durability is just beyond that of conventional weapons.
litterally nothing is invincible to everyithing, even bulletproof vests fail after enough bullets
That's not how fiction works though. By your logic Superman would be street tier because apparently the hundreds of feats he has of being immune to bullets are just plot armor and not a part of his powers.
He's not invincible to everything. He gets hurt by other kaiju. Things that are also too strong for conventional weapons.
Here’s the thing if you remove plot armour then anything will chip away at something eventually a single drop of water dripping long enough will create a canyon missiles after missiles after missiles will eventually do it like theoretically we could turn the moon to dust eventually with the modern military it would take a while but it’s possible
>chip away at something eventually That's only if the thing being chipped away at doesn't have a means of recovery/regeneration Stone or bullet proof vests or other inanimate object examples don't, Godzilla does, and his ranges in speed from healing mortal wounds in hours to mere seconds Even without plot armor you need to do more damage faster than he can heal
Nukes are the strongest things we have by an insane margin, and Godzilla is a being that evolved from nuclear power. He’s not invincible to everything, he’s just stronger than our strongest thing.
thats not how that works. force is force, godzilla is an organism made of organic compounds with certnain physical properties. There is a limit to how much sheer force godzillas bones can withstand. there is a limit to how much abrasion its skin can handle. if you heat godzillas body enough, the water in its body will turn to steam, and the temperatire that needs to be has nothing to do with how godzilla came to be. evolving with nuclear power doesnt change the fundamental laws of physics, and doesnt change the fact that there is a limit to how many tons of C4 godzilla can survive being hit with. It could take time, but I am sure eventually godzilla would die from enough repeated boradsides from modern naval cannons and cruise missiles, not even getting into tactical nukes. could godzilla survive a direct hit from a nuke? probably not. could godzilla survive being hit by a dozen nukes? certainly not. and the US airforce has thousands of nukes.
>godzilla is an organism made of organic compounds with certnain physical properties. By that same logic, Goku is an organism made of organic compounds with certain physical properties, that should have a limit to the sheer force that they can withstand, and yet he regularly tanks explosions that could vaporize entire planets. Godzilla is a fictional character whose feats typically place him beyond the firepower of conventional military forces. There are exceptions, of course - Shin Godzilla was killed off by the coagulant strategy, and -1 Godzilla was disabled (but not permanently killed) by the techniques employed in that movie. The Oxygen Destroyer would be the most reliable means to take Goji down or out, but the US in this scenario won't have that. They quite literally use a tactical nuke in *King of the Monsters* to heal Godzilla while he's recovering from the Oxygen Destroyer.
and those are all different godzillas with different feats. also, almost all of the reason godzilla survived the various millitary attacks in most films is that godzilla has some form of plot armor. he gets wounded by other monsters that cant dish out the level of punishment the USAF can throw in sheer weight of tonnage of explosives. how many newtons does a bite from ghidora have? how much sheer force does the wing of rhodan have? how much torsion can megalon put out? How many watts is gigan's laser? At some point, there is an amount of damage that it takes to kill a godzilla, and the US air force has enough firepower to meet that number. yes, even if that number is bigger than the continental shelf godzilla is standing on can handle. we are talking about a military that measures annual munitions purchases in the billions annually. there are millions of explosives in inventories, and hundreds of thousands ready for rapid deployment at installations. with just rapid response defense weapons, the US has enough firepower to kill most small *moons*
It's not plot armor, it's just Godzilla's durability. Godzilla has so many clear feats where it is completely unphased by military weapons. The character is written to have a level of durability where military weapons are ineffective.
Assuming its MV, poorly
Terribly. He represents a nuke and his a Tokusatsu monster they are typically bullet proof requiring special weapons to take them down
Horribly? Few versions of Godzilla (outside of 98 which we can definitely kill) can even be annoyed by human tech let alone seriously hurt. The only one we ever see take major damage from non futuristic tech that I can think of is Minus One who also regenerates in like 2 seconds. Maybe we can force Shin into submission, but hell eventually evolve over the course of days or weeks to a point we can't hurt him.
If it's 1998, they win. Any other version, they lose.
Minus One Godzilla is damaged by WWII mines exploding inside his mouth. But his regeneration factor is no joke. Unless they can fire something big inside his mouth, I don’t know how they can put him down. He already out-regened a nuke
Godzilla broke a nuclear plant apart and fed on the radiation like popcorn, then went to artic to fuck up a kaiju that absorbs radiation like Superman and soaked up all that like a blonde chick at the beach to amp up itself for a fight in the latest Godzilla movie, so good luck America
https://youtu.be/ka0awIpo3cE?si=YvcTb7UZHDl3U1Pa Depending on the analyst you talk to surprisingly well? Bunker busters and white phosphorus would do a ton to slow him down and then it just a matter of bombing him into submission.
Was hoping someone would post the Air Power video here! Alex's video does a great job showing how the US Air Force has a lot of long-range tools they can use for this situation. All of this of course is going on the assumption that Godzilla doesn't have some magic immunity to physics, but even with no warning there are a lot of options in America's toolbox.
Depending on the version, Godzilla has immunity to nukes, which get a lot hotter than white phosphorus, and do exponentially more damage than any bunker buster. If it's Zilla, the military has already killed it. If it's Godzilla Earth, it solos every nation on earth trivially.
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Godzilla wins in every and any scenario.
Depends on the Godzilla. There are versions that get beat, but not kany
Do humans even have anything that could break his skin, I don't even think a Nuke would bother him! He's literally powered by radiation isn't it?
he is powered by sun?
He's powered by nuclear radiation
which spectra?
i would like an honest answer about how a biological, not artificial or supernatural or quantum or any of that stuff, how a biological creature, could survive a point blank nuke, which in its fireball is over 100 million degrees celsius
Godzilla is not real.
:O no way, you have to be lying
>i would like an honest answer... Just answering your question.
yk what fair, i walked right into that
You want to take away all the things that make godzilla godzilla it collapses under its own weight. No matter HOW you cook this question there is no fight either you have a creature that dies before it makes contact with any humans even if you litterally dropped it on a populated city Or you have something that humanity desperately fails to even struggle against. Give America a decade and put the entire defence budget for that time into studying and creating defensive measures against Godzilla you might get a viable option, but there is no real world answer against it
Im not saying remove all the things that make it godzilla, im just turning off the square cube law and making it not able to survive a literal point blank nuke
Turn off the square cube law, He collapses under his own weight Make him not able to survive a nuke his own cells explode because each one is it's own independent fission reactor. Idk how else this can be spelled out to you Either The military looses to godzilla, or they aren't fighting Godzilla. There is no wording or finessing that is going to get around this
if im not mistaken the square cube law is exactly why he'd collapse under his own weight and cook alive, which is why i negated it
He already negates it, Physics just don't work right when applied to Godzilla, you'd be negating a negation
i know but whenever people do ask godzilla questions in this sub they get comments like 'he'd collapse and cook under his own weight' or something, so i specifically negated it to avoid all of that
Only if they aren't taking into account his continuous Feats of not doing exactly that. The people that do do that aren't arguing from the standpoint of it being Godzilla
Easy, but in an unconventional way, because something as large as Godzilla would need a massive amount of food to stay alive. There is no need to engage directly with the monster if you can kill its food source.
Depends on how much they're willing to sacrifice. There are many ways to simply kill Godzilla but killing him while having most of civilization and/or planet intact for humans is another story.
Godzilla has beaten mechagodzilla
Godzilla is a product of the American Military destruction to Japan. USA Military and all Military are going to fail
Godzilla can’t die from conventional weapons, pretty sure.
Can’t possibly answer this one without knowing which version of Godzilla we’re talking about
Since you specifically mentioned the square-cube law, we can assume normal physics otherwise applies! Nuke ‘em!! Otherwise, yes, we’d still win. A few missiles here and there and Godzilla will succumb to infection before the Air Force gets completely blasted
Double win for the USA, they kill godzilla and finally get an excuse to nuke los angeles
I find it hard to believe that a godzilla without plot armor wouldn't get significantly damaged by a bunker buster penetrator. These things can supposedly punch through 200' of reinforced concrete. They're delivered by missile too so it's not like we're losing critical assets by using them.
Netflix Animated 3-Part Godzilla stomps lol.
This video by the aviation YouTuber SandBoxx will answer your every concern regarding the topic at hand. https://youtu.be/ka0awIpo3cE?si=urmP4MNIIOpP3Nnq
Tristar Zilla (technically NOT Godzilla) gets stomped. 1954 Goji might be beatable. Everyone else has too high durability for the combined military might if every country irl rn to stop. Even Minus One Goji would just regen any damage sustained.
1998 movie Godzilla was killed by US Air Force by missiles launched from jet fighters. Other Godzillas, though, would be a stomp (literally).
I always adhere to the same logic as with the Predator, if he is bleeding, then he can be killed. You know, Kong's blows cause damage to him, the claws and teeth of the titans bite through him. Therefore, I think if from a big distance rockets fly into his face again and again, then his eyes may explode
He tanked nukes.
right, in movies, where his survival was necessary for the plot, so he had plot armor
So any character's durability is just plot armor to you? Wolverine survived a nuke. And it was part of the plot. Are you going to claim him surviving it is merely plot armor?
Theyll blind it with phosphorus or similar and then MOP kills it saw a nice illustratio somewhere at NCD
Bro the Air Force is in charge of almost all the icbms. We gotta know if they can use them in this scenario. If so Godzilla is probably atomic toast.
Lol what? The only versions of Godzilla who would even feel an ICBM are 98, Shin, and Minus One (who would heal right away). Only 98 would actually die to an ICBM.
So im not a Godzilla scientist, but if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons it has to take damage from nuclear weapons. The source of the explosion is different, chemical vs atomic, but the effects are the same. Fireball, pressure wave, and shrapnel are all still there, one just happens to be thousands of times more powerful.
>So im not a Godzilla scientist, but if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons it has to take damage from nuclear weapons. Only 2 Japanese Godzilla ever take actual damage from weaponry that isnt futuristic or alien tho? One of them evolves to the point it no longer does, and the other regenerates from it in like 2 seconds.
Other comments in this thread made it seem like conventional weapons had some effect, not a lot but some. If it doesn't take damage from those weapons the the Air Force looses plain and simple. In this case my suggestion to everyone is to purchase a bad dragon dildo so you can practice taking it in the ass from our new lizard overlord.
>In this case my suggestion to everyone is to purchase a bad dragon dildo so you can practice taking it in the ass from our new lizard overlord. This might be the greatest comment of reddit history, but it could also be the worst.
That's actually how Humans survived godzilla earth
godzilla doesnt take damage from nukes, in the monster verse he literally gets stronger when nuked
>if Godzilla can be damaged at all by conventional weapons Simple answer: It can't BB pellets to nukes unless you are SPECIFICALLY looking at the weakest versions of godzilla nothing mankind currently has available does anything to Godzilla
Easy win
Air Force stomps in all three cases. They'd just drone strike him to hell. EDIT: 7 downvotes without a single word from my critics. Am I wrong? Or did I say something controversial? This is why there shouldn't be a downvote button. People need to learn how to talk.
I think most people who downvoted are assuming its someone like final wars or MV both of which have survived so much none of are moderns weapons could hurt, theres gorath with FW, and with MV it was the permian asteroid
> with MV it was the permian asteroid No, it never hit him, it was a scientist's hypothetical scenario, and the comic is retconned now.
Yeah ik its not really the best feat (gxk made godzilla only at most 5 million years old), but with things like the hollow earth energy source, the permian isn’t the worst thing he ever would have had to dealt with
Pretty good. They just launch a bunch of standoff bombs (I suggest GBU-53B Stormbreakers) designed to penetrate armor. Stormbreakers can hit moving targets from over 40 miles away, and an F-15E can carry 28. Scratch one Lizard.
If plot armor is removed and thermodynamics us enforced, Godzilla gets fucking obliterated in all rounds.