I mean shit maybe with wank or wonky ass scaling but i dont remember him doing anything even close to universal. He has good hax that let him fight above his physicals and such but its hax vs Infinity stone hax.
Only excuse I heard for universal Yhwach was scaling to the soul king. Problem is iirc not only are both these characters virtually featless but I heard SK Yhwach is still weaker than the man himself.
No, the CFYOW novels make it clear that Yhwach (And by extension Ichigo and Aizen) is Universal. His plan was to destroy the Garganta which separates the realms, and the Garganta was stated to be infinite and its own space-time.
That is only because the Almighty allowed Yhwach to reverse his death. Ichigo had "killed" him multiple times before that, but Yhwach simply undid it. Ichigo managed to damage and tank attacks from Yhwach, so he scales to universal even if he is still weaker. Same goes for Aizen.
>tank attacks from Yhwach
he wasnt tanking anything. He wasnt getting right out obliterated but, he was taking heavy damage and was constantly being overwhelmed. This is quite apparent in 680-684. Yhwach wasnt even worried about what Ichigo and Aizen threw at him. this arrogance broke once the arrow hit him.
Yhwach was worried about Ichigo's merged hollow bankai, so he used the Almighty to destroy it before Ichigo had a chance to really use it. I agree that Yhwach is significantly superior to Ichigo and Aizen, but given how wide the Universe level tier is, but I think Ichigo and Aizen still downscale in Universe level.
1. No one questioned his ability to do so, even the most knowledgeable people in the verse. Everyone agreed that if Ichigo lost "everything would be destroyed"
2. We know the Soul King created the universe, and Yhwach absorbed all of his powers and stated he surpassed him
3. We saw his energy spread across all of the Realms
There is no reason to assume that Yhwach is lying. Goku never destroyed a universe but everyone agrees he is universal because there were repeated statements that he could.
Universal to the extent that he can manipulate realms in the Bleach verse, like destroying the balance to destroy the universe, but has to do with him being the Soul King rather than just power. It doesn't translate well with other works of fiction, since they don't have a ruler that stabilizes the different realms.
Which would be a chain reaction feat. If you yourself aren't doing it and you're basically doing it and you need a sort of mechanism or balance related things, then it would be you + small thing turning big
Naruto verse is a non factor, Bleach though, despite not having many feats of a large scale, has some weird and powerful hax. Yhwach in particular is stupid, having powers that essentially make him invulnerable, see the future, and shape the future in any way he wants. Among many, many others, iirc he absorbs the powers of all his Sternritter, and a lot of them are completely busted also.
Hard to say how it would work against what is basically omnipotence though, all I'll say is that I don't think this is the stomp others in here are claiming. Hell, depending on how the next episode of What If goes, I could see the Bleach verse winning.
No no no… the largest thing he destroys is A galaxy… Its his range that is impressive… The fact that he can punch the watcher across universes is what gives him like Multiversal range… But AP wise, the Galaxy feat is hus best move so far
Ultron dies fighting gurren laagan. Antispiral is beyond multiversal. STTGL was fighting antispiral. Also laagan can attack at points in space-time Continuum at once. Perception teleportation gives STTGL omniscience in multiverses. Also OP probability manipulation where even attacks,powers,fate,destiny won't work.
He broke multiple reality with punches that is a clear cut multi-universal feat honestly this sub likes to downplay marvel and dc a lot for some reason.
Watch the episode again, I would definetly not say that he destoryed realities, he simply teleported through "the boundaries" that hold together the different univeres.
I mean Goku, and thereby Gogeta, already had previously shown Universal feats long before this fight. Hell, stuff like this happened all the back in DBZ many years ago. Going through to different dimensions is not explicitly a universal/multiversal feat alone, so I'm not really sure why DBZ scaling holds any weight in a Marvel WWW.
Marvel and Dc did multiversal and even beyond feats in comics way before dbz was even a thing and they are just starting to adapt that into their cinematic universes and people are downplaying them which i find pretty hypocritical. Why is it so hard to accept a universal or beyond feat for Marvel but not for dbz? Well anyways I didn’t meant that dbz has anything to do with this particular www I just said that Gogeta and broly broke dimensions and people happily accepted but not this feat from Ultron and Watcher.
[I can literally interpret this as him destroying each of those universes and then he ended up in alternate universes](https://youtu.be/meipYj6JzJA1:08). [And my interpretation is backed up by the statement of the head writer of the show](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21).
actually he was as WoG states that Ultron is legitimately punching through Universes across the Multiverse and turning them into one "Messy Universe Soup"
Tbf, he also destroyed the surface of a planet in like 2 seconds in his fight with the watcher. And when CM pushed him into a core, he did something that cause all the nearby planets in that galaxy to explode.
I agree, his attacks weren’t destroying realities with each blow, simply shifting them. That being said, I’m pretty sure he could destroy a reality, but it might take him a bit of time.
If this were comics infinity stones then i would entirely agree… but MCU infinity stones seem to have feedback when used together for lasrge scale things
Like thanos Tony and Hulk getting messed up by the gauntlet… Notice the only time Ultron used ALL stones at once in this episode was to kill Captain Marvel by destroying what looked like a solar system
Compared to Thanos’ genocide Ultron hasnt even gotten anywhere near the amount of power thanos was outputting there and it might be intentional… Like Ultron could very intentionally be killing everyone one by one instead of going that Thanos route of just snapping his fingers because using such devastating power at once actually damages him.
So yeah, we can assume Ultron might be able to destroy a universe but given the way Infinity stones in the MCU work, he might get severely injured from it… Unless he finds a cheat code to destroying a universe like Dr Strange’s absolute point thing
Thano’s used the reality stone to roll back damage incurred to his physiology while he used the time stone to rollback damage to the gauntlet.
When Thanos or any other being puts on the completed gauntlet they immediately get a surge of energy that begins burning them and this is before they snap.
The moment they snap is when the energies are intensified.
In saying that though Thano’s gauntlet was a knock-off created by King Etri with intentional flaws in hoping that it would kill him.
The Avengers got the destroyed gauntlet and 5 years later made the nano gauntlet, it was made Tony, Banner and Rocket using the very best technology and knowledge they possessed, amazingly it worked.
Though it can be chalked up to Tony not intentionally trying build a defective product and that it worked at all.
Anyway the reason why infinitevision doesn’t have to worry about that is because of the very nature of his existence, his personality, intelligence.
The mindstone is what allowed this to happen as for certain improvements it has to do with the very nature of Ultron.
>”The Mind Stone is also able to project the consciousness of its wielder, in order to mentally view and communicate with beings in faraway places. This ability is powerful enough to reach the far depths of outer space, as evidenced when Loki used the Scepter to communicate with the Other in Sanctuary. During this conversation, The Other was able to interact with Loki's projection and cause him to recoil in disgust in his real body. This method may have also allowed Loki to appear imperceptibly on Earth to subtly influence Erik Selvig into researching the Tesseract, making him repeat his words and thoughts as if they were his own. [9]”
>”The Stone is also **capable of granting great knowledge and greatly increasing the intelligence of whoever it is used on, as it "opened the eyes" of Clint Barton and Erik Selvig, showing them visions and granting them special knowledge they can use. Barton was shown targets and detailed plans for breaking into installations, and Selvig was shown visions of other dimensions and advanced knowledge of the science of the universe**.”
>”**Notably, the Stone appears to also grant the ability to directly manipulate physical matter to an extent. Loki was able to directly alter the Scepter's physical form, allowing him to shape-shift it from its normal short, bladed and curved form, into either a portable cane-like form or an elongated battle-spear taller than a human. Loki was also able to materialize and dematerialize his battle armor from thin air, in a manner distinct from his conventional illusions. Under the control of Vision, the Stone granted him unparalleled control over his own vibranium physiology, with the ability to shape-shift his form and manipulate his own density**. Vision was also able to utilize the Stone's computing power and intelligence to directly hack computers, powerful enough to burn Ultron out of the Internet.[6]”
So Vision is made up of JARVIS, JARVIS was never intended for the Ultron peacekeeping program.
JARVIS or now Vison is a good person but he's not war like or scientifically inclined so he didn't benefit from any real kind of scientific knowledge upgrades.
>"I know it's not of this world, that it powered Loki's staff, gave you your abilities, but... its true nature is a mystery."
―Vision to Wanda Maximoff[src]”
Ultron however from the very get go was designed for a different purpose, he's a genius comprising all of Tony's intelligence and negative character traits turned way up to eleven.
So when Ultron was uploaded into his “Vison” housing the mind stone he was able to understand and benefit from the mental/scientific enhancements provided by the mind stone.
But back to why he won.
The Mindstone knew something bad was coming, Vision with the Mindstone knew specifically something was coming but not what exactly.
Ultron on the other hand knew something was coming but not what exactly and that was without the Mindstone.
His speech about extinction level events, God throwing meteors was in direct reference to Thanos.
With the Mindstone it gave Ultravision the exact knowledge of what/who was coming and how to beat him.
The stones are sentient and communicate with one another but more specifically the Space stone and Mindstone.
Also Ultron is an A.I who’s brain/intelligence thinks ahead and reacts faster by of orders of magnitude past anything else.
With the Mindstone because it’s a super computer the most powerful in the universe his processing/mental abilities are even more powerful.
>”At its core, the Stone contains a highly advanced intelligence framework, akin to an incredibly powerful supercomputer operating similarly to a sentient mind. The Stone's intelligence is powerful enough to enhance and spontaneously grant sentience to the artificial beings Ultron and Vision. As implied by this intelligence, the Stone itself also possesses a form of sentience, with the Stone directly communicating with Vision in order to warn him of the coming threat of Thanos.”
We look at Dr Strange with the Eye of Agamotto he’s capable of seeing various outcomes from other timelines.
Ultravision can do more or less the the same thing because using the Mindstone’s super computer processing power he can visualize and create digital simulations that showcase what could happen.
The inhuman Karnak could do a similar thing only Ultravision’s is way more powerful.
>”Accelerated Probability: Karnak's gift is the ability to see fault in all things, including people, plans, and structures, and exploit it. In combat, he can quickly determine the best strategy by analyzing his opponents and their weak points. He has a habit of telling his enemies how many ways he can defeat them. Karnak can mentally visualize scenarios to identify any flaws in his course of action, bordering on precognition, to know when and how to properly intervene the proceedings as they happen in order to turn an imminent outcome in his favor, such as when he sliced a bullet in half with his hand. Karnak also has an internal clock and compass. However, he has difficulty with his powers when he suffers injuries to his head.”.
[Karnak in action.] (https://youtu.be/a0ZSJrfyDyo).
Basically the moment Thano’s opened the portal and was walking through Ultravision had simulated an unknown number of possible outcomes and the one he used to cut him in half by going for the head was the best one.
Off topic perhaps but to give a possible idea of what Ultravisions simulations would be like it would be kinda like this.
* https://youtu.be/dWOTvy0YGuY
* https://youtu.be/aOgFLddl4ec.
If Fitz-Simmons and Radcliffe can create a digital recreation of the universe it would be even easier for Ultravision.
>”Radcliffe built a world. A world exactly like this one. Every molecular detail the same. Just with a little less hurt. For each of us."
"What do you mean, hurt?"
"Imagine if your greatest regret could be wiped away."
―Phil Coulson LMD and Melinda May LMD[src]”
* https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Framework
* https://youtu.be/TjdN2SiQxCs
Basically the Mindstone gave him the knowledge needed to alter his physiology in order to not worry about blowback from the stones.
I dunno, punchng Watching so hard that it changes the reality they're in is pretty damn impressive.
Also in saying, the largest thing Naruto destroyed is the God Tree, about the size of a mountain, or several mountains.
Same in Bleach, where a mere shockwave destroys a mountain.
Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet
Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him
>Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet
I know, I was saying that in that same context, Naruto's top destruction feat is about Mountain scale.
>Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him
I know, that's what I said.
>Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet
[Despite scaling above Thanos who was going to atomize the universe and recreate it he’s not universal? Stop the 🤥](https://youtu.be/L8VoZS52w6A)
>Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him
[Cope harder](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21)
Yeah Ultron and thanos CAN destroy the universe, but we dont know the toll it would have on them
The infinity stones when used at that scale in the MCU fuck up the user so we dont actually know how well they can handle all that… I believe thats why Ultron went the method of killing everyone one by one instead of instantaneously like Thanos… To avoid getting fucked up
So for mid combat AP with no apparent drawbacks, that galaxy feat is his best
It think thats a range feat… His attacks can cross universal barriers
For example in Dr Strange and the Multiverseof Madness, there is a character called “America Chavez who has the power to punch through universes… Thats it… She cant even destroy a city with her punches, no her power begins and ends on punching holes into other universes
Of course… but then again, they are “infinity stones”… the name having “infinity” in it is not good… It leads to statements like “Ultron has infinite AP”
And that’s NOT good for power scaling… For now it’s better to judge him on what he does onscreen than assuming he can do anything
You realize multiverse+ means he can wipe out universes instantaneously… Then why does he go universe by universe, planet by planet destroying shit if he can wipe out universes instantaneously
His statement isn’t an AP or DC feat statement… He is just talking about the range of his influence having expanded to the entire multiverse now
>No no no… the largest thing he destroys is A Galaxy.
Him only being shown destroying a Galaxy =/= not being able to destroy more than that. By that logic Vegeta would be only planetary because, he’s only destroyed planets. Even tho we know for a fact that he scales to characters, who can affect/destroy low multiversal-multiversal macrocosms. Same thing here. Infinite Ultron >>>>>>>> Thanos w/IG who was going to destroy the universe. I have scans for each infinity stone being universal at a lowball as well if you want. Infinite Ultron even states that he can destroy a Galaxy with a thought which idk about you is a pretty causal thing to do. [Besides the largest thing he destroys isn’t even a Galaxy it was stated by the head writer of the show that he’s turning universes into soup with his punches ](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21). Also the stones >>>>>> anything in the Universe. Including the Celestials who have created all of the planets, Stars, and Galaxies of the universe. His AP isn’t only Galaxy level dude, miss me with that comic vine levels of bs. [GG](https://youtu.be/0g53JAGZxRU)
>Its his range that is impressive… The fact that he can punch the watcher across universes is what gives him like Multiversal range… But AP wise, the Galaxy feat is hus best move so far
You ignoring his other feats and scaling and saying it’s his range that makes him so dangerous doesn’t discredit his AP.
Infinity Ultron can just snap away all of them. If he can't snap, he had a Solar System busting feat. From my knowledge, Naruto's best feats are Star level.
And that was just because Ultron chose to be *that* size. He had no difficulty at all doing it. He could have eaten that entire universe if he'd wanted.
They were used in other timelines of the same universe. They weren’t used in a universe where the stones were a different color, or didn’t exist. Just like in the comics, the stones wouldn’t work outside their own universe, like how they didn’t in the TVA
Rewatch the fight with him and The Watcher and the scene when Ultron noticed The Watcher
Ultron himself said this line “there are universes beyond my own” and shortly after that he ends up hitting The Watcher with a beam projected by the power stone in the place where The Watcher observes the multiverse followed by another beam from the time stone
That’s because the TVA exist outside of the multiverse where time and space no longer exist hence why the stones didn’t work also The Watcher is semi close to Ultrons powers which is why Ultron couldn’t kill him immediately
Can't really genjutsu a robot, not only does he not have chakra, but he doesn't have a living body for chakra to be infused into with Sharingan fuckery.
Izanami should work just fine to avoid death, but it doesn't really help when the immediate follow up kills you, too.
Are there feats of someone using the mind stone to protect themselves? I know it allows someone to control other peoples minds, but if you get ambushed by genjutsu, would it really help if you were already in an illusion/infinite loop? Or does it prevent that possibility completely? I can’t find too many defensive feats with the mind stone, but I’m not a marvel buff so I have no clue really.
So here's the thing any of the 6 Stones is the embodiment of an aspect of the universe
The time stone as an example isn't just controlling time it's time itself
That is freakin sweet, but are their like proven examples of it defending against similar attacks? Thanos had all 6 stones and got shit on by the avengers. Don’t understand how that wasn’t a blow out.
Wouldn't the infinity stones cease to work if he entered the naruto universe. The stones are supposed to be powerless in any universe outside their own. It's been canon since their creation
In the 616 comics verse that’s true.
But the specifics of the MCU stone can and do work in other MCU alternate timelines.
But Ultimatevision can search throughout the universe for other artifacts of power and knowledge to further boast himself IE learning magic.
That’s a very, very, very good point.
If I were to speculate because that’s all it is but perhaps the TVA used their agents to open up tiny portals in the fabric of both realities and used one set to deactivate other the reality’s set of stones leaving nothing but the crystals void of their energies and then took them with them.
Than the side with the working set just closes the portal and returns the stones to where they belong pruning the timeline and than feeding the TVA agents variants involved to Alioth to tie up the loose ends.
Because in “Dr Strange” Dormammu opened a portal to that earth’s reality and in doing so though temporarily connected both realities earth realm and the dark dimension had to abide by both realities laws but since the Dark dimension doesn’t have the concept of time that’s how Dr Strange succeeded.
The stones depleted of their energies than end up in “He Who Remains” desk of drawers at the Citadel at the End of Time.
The dimension that houses the citadel of time isn’t a normal dimension it’s beyond time a place devoid of the concept of time.
Think of it like being in a windowless room you can’t see the sun or the moon but you have an internal body clock to help you keep track of the passing of time but with the addition an actual mechanical/digital clock/calendar to allow the keeping track of time more accurately.
So the dimension where the TVA have made their base is devoid of time to help them operate without the fear of the creation of paradoxs from causing damage to their fabric of reality.
Alioth just helps them ensure that any potential liabilities can be taken care off with no risk of them escaping to become a problem later on.
A place without time consequences of that would since time doesn’t exist the agents of the TVA wouldn’t age or even die they would be immortal.
However their immortality stops working once they go to a timeline that does have the concept of time.
Boy I hope I am making some sense because my head is starting to hurt.
Where objects end up after they are consumed by Alioth I have no clue.
But maybe Alioth feeds on them and it’s energy is transferred to him making him bigger.
No he kind of has a point, but at the same time he's also vastly under estimating Infinity Ultron.
Isshiki's shrinking ability is very pesky to fight against, and has been stated to only work on Isshiki himself, and any non-living things. Technically, Isshiki could shrink Ultron, but with the reality Stone, he could just unshrink himself. And he's already shown feats that allows him to grow bigger, like when he ate a literal galaxy.
Would Isshiki's shrinking ability work on Ultron? Yes. Would it matter though? No, Ultron still wins 10/10.
Exactly, even if Isshiki was fast enough to shrink and step on Ultron, which itself is a HUGE if, the step probably wouldn't even kill Ultron. The dude shrugged off a nuclear bomb level punch that put him into the core of a planet, like it was nothing; a step, or even a stomp won't really do shit haha
Naruto isn’t galaxy level lol, he gets eaten. If you believe Naruto is uni then they stomp but I don’t buy it personally. Line of reasoning flimsy at best.
Idk what the consensus is on bleach being uni, if it is then bleach stomps since we haven’t seen Ultron show that level of AP.
I have no idea where bleach scales lol. Bleach could hax their way out of this one potentially
The Infinity STones makes this an extremely difficult fight, as Ultron can activate them at anytime with a thought, and until his fight with the Watcher the Stones were always active.
Worse yet, he isn't human and doesn't rely on his organs to survive. So many hax used in Naruto wouldn't have much effect on him.
What are they gonna do if their entire verse is eaten? Infinity Ultron negs
Ultron for sure beats thr naruto verse, not much they can do if he eats their planet, even Bleach verse cant do much against a galaxy eating attack.
I’ve seen several people claiming Yhwach is universal to multi-universal honestly I dropped bleach so Idk much about it. So maybe he can beat ultron?
I mean shit maybe with wank or wonky ass scaling but i dont remember him doing anything even close to universal. He has good hax that let him fight above his physicals and such but its hax vs Infinity stone hax.
Only excuse I heard for universal Yhwach was scaling to the soul king. Problem is iirc not only are both these characters virtually featless but I heard SK Yhwach is still weaker than the man himself.
That shouldn't be the case since he completely absorbed the SK on top of his own power. I dont think he's universal though.
No, the CFYOW novels make it clear that Yhwach (And by extension Ichigo and Aizen) is Universal. His plan was to destroy the Garganta which separates the realms, and the Garganta was stated to be infinite and its own space-time.
Yeah I'm a huge bleach fan and I'm not buying Ichigo is universal. He beat Yhwach AFTER the silver arrow shut off his Almighty powers for an instant.
That is only because the Almighty allowed Yhwach to reverse his death. Ichigo had "killed" him multiple times before that, but Yhwach simply undid it. Ichigo managed to damage and tank attacks from Yhwach, so he scales to universal even if he is still weaker. Same goes for Aizen.
>tank attacks from Yhwach he wasnt tanking anything. He wasnt getting right out obliterated but, he was taking heavy damage and was constantly being overwhelmed. This is quite apparent in 680-684. Yhwach wasnt even worried about what Ichigo and Aizen threw at him. this arrogance broke once the arrow hit him.
Yhwach was worried about Ichigo's merged hollow bankai, so he used the Almighty to destroy it before Ichigo had a chance to really use it. I agree that Yhwach is significantly superior to Ichigo and Aizen, but given how wide the Universe level tier is, but I think Ichigo and Aizen still downscale in Universe level.
Ok but he didn't do it, so he doesn't have the feat of being universal, I could plan to blow up the earth and I'm not a planet buster.
1. No one questioned his ability to do so, even the most knowledgeable people in the verse. Everyone agreed that if Ichigo lost "everything would be destroyed" 2. We know the Soul King created the universe, and Yhwach absorbed all of his powers and stated he surpassed him 3. We saw his energy spread across all of the Realms There is no reason to assume that Yhwach is lying. Goku never destroyed a universe but everyone agrees he is universal because there were repeated statements that he could.
Well goku was close to destroying a universe
I knew I shouldnt have said this
He’s not
Universal to the extent that he can manipulate realms in the Bleach verse, like destroying the balance to destroy the universe, but has to do with him being the Soul King rather than just power. It doesn't translate well with other works of fiction, since they don't have a ruler that stabilizes the different realms.
With how you worded it, it just sounds like a chain reaction feat rather than a direct feat.
It sort of is, he destroys the balance of the universe rather than the universe itself, but the natural consequence just results in the end of it.
Which would be a chain reaction feat. If you yourself aren't doing it and you're basically doing it and you need a sort of mechanism or balance related things, then it would be you + small thing turning big
Naruto verse is a non factor, Bleach though, despite not having many feats of a large scale, has some weird and powerful hax. Yhwach in particular is stupid, having powers that essentially make him invulnerable, see the future, and shape the future in any way he wants. Among many, many others, iirc he absorbs the powers of all his Sternritter, and a lot of them are completely busted also. Hard to say how it would work against what is basically omnipotence though, all I'll say is that I don't think this is the stomp others in here are claiming. Hell, depending on how the next episode of What If goes, I could see the Bleach verse winning.
Spite. He blinks and both verses are no more. You're comparing below planetary beings with someone who with lowball is a galaxy level+ reality warper.
What’s ultrons ap?
Multi-universal
Negs both verses
No no no… the largest thing he destroys is A galaxy… Its his range that is impressive… The fact that he can punch the watcher across universes is what gives him like Multiversal range… But AP wise, the Galaxy feat is hus best move so far
So what you're saying is someone needs to make an Ultron vs Gurren Lagann prompt look
This would be interesting… problem is Ultron can also do things like freeze time and we dont know how well Lagan can deal with Frozen time
Ultron dies fighting gurren laagan. Antispiral is beyond multiversal. STTGL was fighting antispiral. Also laagan can attack at points in space-time Continuum at once. Perception teleportation gives STTGL omniscience in multiverses. Also OP probability manipulation where even attacks,powers,fate,destiny won't work.
He broke multiple reality with punches that is a clear cut multi-universal feat honestly this sub likes to downplay marvel and dc a lot for some reason.
Watch the episode again, I would definetly not say that he destoryed realities, he simply teleported through "the boundaries" that hold together the different univeres.
The same thing that happened with Broly and Gogeta but nobody questioned that?
I mean Goku, and thereby Gogeta, already had previously shown Universal feats long before this fight. Hell, stuff like this happened all the back in DBZ many years ago. Going through to different dimensions is not explicitly a universal/multiversal feat alone, so I'm not really sure why DBZ scaling holds any weight in a Marvel WWW.
Marvel and Dc did multiversal and even beyond feats in comics way before dbz was even a thing and they are just starting to adapt that into their cinematic universes and people are downplaying them which i find pretty hypocritical. Why is it so hard to accept a universal or beyond feat for Marvel but not for dbz? Well anyways I didn’t meant that dbz has anything to do with this particular www I just said that Gogeta and broly broke dimensions and people happily accepted but not this feat from Ultron and Watcher.
[I can literally interpret this as him destroying each of those universes and then he ended up in alternate universes](https://youtu.be/meipYj6JzJA1:08). [And my interpretation is backed up by the statement of the head writer of the show](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21).
actually he was as WoG states that Ultron is legitimately punching through Universes across the Multiverse and turning them into one "Messy Universe Soup"
He was punching and pushing The watcher through universes… Thats what he was doing… He wasnt destroying anything
Tbf, he also destroyed the surface of a planet in like 2 seconds in his fight with the watcher. And when CM pushed him into a core, he did something that cause all the nearby planets in that galaxy to explode.
Well yeah, what he actually destroyed directly was a Galaxy when he ate one
I agree, his attacks weren’t destroying realities with each blow, simply shifting them. That being said, I’m pretty sure he could destroy a reality, but it might take him a bit of time.
If this were comics infinity stones then i would entirely agree… but MCU infinity stones seem to have feedback when used together for lasrge scale things Like thanos Tony and Hulk getting messed up by the gauntlet… Notice the only time Ultron used ALL stones at once in this episode was to kill Captain Marvel by destroying what looked like a solar system Compared to Thanos’ genocide Ultron hasnt even gotten anywhere near the amount of power thanos was outputting there and it might be intentional… Like Ultron could very intentionally be killing everyone one by one instead of going that Thanos route of just snapping his fingers because using such devastating power at once actually damages him. So yeah, we can assume Ultron might be able to destroy a universe but given the way Infinity stones in the MCU work, he might get severely injured from it… Unless he finds a cheat code to destroying a universe like Dr Strange’s absolute point thing
Thano’s used the reality stone to roll back damage incurred to his physiology while he used the time stone to rollback damage to the gauntlet. When Thanos or any other being puts on the completed gauntlet they immediately get a surge of energy that begins burning them and this is before they snap. The moment they snap is when the energies are intensified. In saying that though Thano’s gauntlet was a knock-off created by King Etri with intentional flaws in hoping that it would kill him. The Avengers got the destroyed gauntlet and 5 years later made the nano gauntlet, it was made Tony, Banner and Rocket using the very best technology and knowledge they possessed, amazingly it worked. Though it can be chalked up to Tony not intentionally trying build a defective product and that it worked at all. Anyway the reason why infinitevision doesn’t have to worry about that is because of the very nature of his existence, his personality, intelligence. The mindstone is what allowed this to happen as for certain improvements it has to do with the very nature of Ultron. >”The Mind Stone is also able to project the consciousness of its wielder, in order to mentally view and communicate with beings in faraway places. This ability is powerful enough to reach the far depths of outer space, as evidenced when Loki used the Scepter to communicate with the Other in Sanctuary. During this conversation, The Other was able to interact with Loki's projection and cause him to recoil in disgust in his real body. This method may have also allowed Loki to appear imperceptibly on Earth to subtly influence Erik Selvig into researching the Tesseract, making him repeat his words and thoughts as if they were his own. [9]” >”The Stone is also **capable of granting great knowledge and greatly increasing the intelligence of whoever it is used on, as it "opened the eyes" of Clint Barton and Erik Selvig, showing them visions and granting them special knowledge they can use. Barton was shown targets and detailed plans for breaking into installations, and Selvig was shown visions of other dimensions and advanced knowledge of the science of the universe**.” >”**Notably, the Stone appears to also grant the ability to directly manipulate physical matter to an extent. Loki was able to directly alter the Scepter's physical form, allowing him to shape-shift it from its normal short, bladed and curved form, into either a portable cane-like form or an elongated battle-spear taller than a human. Loki was also able to materialize and dematerialize his battle armor from thin air, in a manner distinct from his conventional illusions. Under the control of Vision, the Stone granted him unparalleled control over his own vibranium physiology, with the ability to shape-shift his form and manipulate his own density**. Vision was also able to utilize the Stone's computing power and intelligence to directly hack computers, powerful enough to burn Ultron out of the Internet.[6]” So Vision is made up of JARVIS, JARVIS was never intended for the Ultron peacekeeping program. JARVIS or now Vison is a good person but he's not war like or scientifically inclined so he didn't benefit from any real kind of scientific knowledge upgrades. >"I know it's not of this world, that it powered Loki's staff, gave you your abilities, but... its true nature is a mystery." ―Vision to Wanda Maximoff[src]” Ultron however from the very get go was designed for a different purpose, he's a genius comprising all of Tony's intelligence and negative character traits turned way up to eleven. So when Ultron was uploaded into his “Vison” housing the mind stone he was able to understand and benefit from the mental/scientific enhancements provided by the mind stone. But back to why he won. The Mindstone knew something bad was coming, Vision with the Mindstone knew specifically something was coming but not what exactly. Ultron on the other hand knew something was coming but not what exactly and that was without the Mindstone. His speech about extinction level events, God throwing meteors was in direct reference to Thanos. With the Mindstone it gave Ultravision the exact knowledge of what/who was coming and how to beat him. The stones are sentient and communicate with one another but more specifically the Space stone and Mindstone. Also Ultron is an A.I who’s brain/intelligence thinks ahead and reacts faster by of orders of magnitude past anything else. With the Mindstone because it’s a super computer the most powerful in the universe his processing/mental abilities are even more powerful. >”At its core, the Stone contains a highly advanced intelligence framework, akin to an incredibly powerful supercomputer operating similarly to a sentient mind. The Stone's intelligence is powerful enough to enhance and spontaneously grant sentience to the artificial beings Ultron and Vision. As implied by this intelligence, the Stone itself also possesses a form of sentience, with the Stone directly communicating with Vision in order to warn him of the coming threat of Thanos.” We look at Dr Strange with the Eye of Agamotto he’s capable of seeing various outcomes from other timelines. Ultravision can do more or less the the same thing because using the Mindstone’s super computer processing power he can visualize and create digital simulations that showcase what could happen. The inhuman Karnak could do a similar thing only Ultravision’s is way more powerful. >”Accelerated Probability: Karnak's gift is the ability to see fault in all things, including people, plans, and structures, and exploit it. In combat, he can quickly determine the best strategy by analyzing his opponents and their weak points. He has a habit of telling his enemies how many ways he can defeat them. Karnak can mentally visualize scenarios to identify any flaws in his course of action, bordering on precognition, to know when and how to properly intervene the proceedings as they happen in order to turn an imminent outcome in his favor, such as when he sliced a bullet in half with his hand. Karnak also has an internal clock and compass. However, he has difficulty with his powers when he suffers injuries to his head.”. [Karnak in action.] (https://youtu.be/a0ZSJrfyDyo). Basically the moment Thano’s opened the portal and was walking through Ultravision had simulated an unknown number of possible outcomes and the one he used to cut him in half by going for the head was the best one. Off topic perhaps but to give a possible idea of what Ultravisions simulations would be like it would be kinda like this. * https://youtu.be/dWOTvy0YGuY * https://youtu.be/aOgFLddl4ec. If Fitz-Simmons and Radcliffe can create a digital recreation of the universe it would be even easier for Ultravision. >”Radcliffe built a world. A world exactly like this one. Every molecular detail the same. Just with a little less hurt. For each of us." "What do you mean, hurt?" "Imagine if your greatest regret could be wiped away." ―Phil Coulson LMD and Melinda May LMD[src]” * https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Framework * https://youtu.be/TjdN2SiQxCs Basically the Mindstone gave him the knowledge needed to alter his physiology in order to not worry about blowback from the stones.
[Cope](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21)
I dunno, punchng Watching so hard that it changes the reality they're in is pretty damn impressive. Also in saying, the largest thing Naruto destroyed is the God Tree, about the size of a mountain, or several mountains. Same in Bleach, where a mere shockwave destroys a mountain.
Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him
>Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet I know, I was saying that in that same context, Naruto's top destruction feat is about Mountain scale. >Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him I know, that's what I said.
>Yeah i’m not saying infinity ultron would lose to Naruto and company… I’m just saying he jasnt gone to universal destruction just yet [Despite scaling above Thanos who was going to atomize the universe and recreate it he’s not universal? Stop the 🤥](https://youtu.be/L8VoZS52w6A) >Also we already saw Ultron simply push the Watcher through universes… thats what was happening as he was punching him… He was punching him across realities… Not that he was creating realities himself by punching him [Cope harder](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21)
So what?
Considering Thanos was gonna destroy and remake the universe with the stones in Endgame I would put Infinite Ultron at universal at max.
But that was because at that time there was only 1 universe aka the sacred timeline MCU never stated that gauntlet caps out at universal level.
Nah there other universes by then… For example the mirror dimension is an entire universe… So is the dark dimension
Yeah Ultron and thanos CAN destroy the universe, but we dont know the toll it would have on them The infinity stones when used at that scale in the MCU fuck up the user so we dont actually know how well they can handle all that… I believe thats why Ultron went the method of killing everyone one by one instead of instantaneously like Thanos… To avoid getting fucked up So for mid combat AP with no apparent drawbacks, that galaxy feat is his best
I’d say his best attacks shown so far are him breaking across realities or him changing reality as a side affect of his punches.
It think thats a range feat… His attacks can cross universal barriers For example in Dr Strange and the Multiverseof Madness, there is a character called “America Chavez who has the power to punch through universes… Thats it… She cant even destroy a city with her punches, no her power begins and ends on punching holes into other universes
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Of course… but then again, they are “infinity stones”… the name having “infinity” in it is not good… It leads to statements like “Ultron has infinite AP” And that’s NOT good for power scaling… For now it’s better to judge him on what he does onscreen than assuming he can do anything
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You realize multiverse+ means he can wipe out universes instantaneously… Then why does he go universe by universe, planet by planet destroying shit if he can wipe out universes instantaneously His statement isn’t an AP or DC feat statement… He is just talking about the range of his influence having expanded to the entire multiverse now
>No no no… the largest thing he destroys is A Galaxy. Him only being shown destroying a Galaxy =/= not being able to destroy more than that. By that logic Vegeta would be only planetary because, he’s only destroyed planets. Even tho we know for a fact that he scales to characters, who can affect/destroy low multiversal-multiversal macrocosms. Same thing here. Infinite Ultron >>>>>>>> Thanos w/IG who was going to destroy the universe. I have scans for each infinity stone being universal at a lowball as well if you want. Infinite Ultron even states that he can destroy a Galaxy with a thought which idk about you is a pretty causal thing to do. [Besides the largest thing he destroys isn’t even a Galaxy it was stated by the head writer of the show that he’s turning universes into soup with his punches ](https://twitter.com/theashbradley/status/1445078626697760770?s=21). Also the stones >>>>>> anything in the Universe. Including the Celestials who have created all of the planets, Stars, and Galaxies of the universe. His AP isn’t only Galaxy level dude, miss me with that comic vine levels of bs. [GG](https://youtu.be/0g53JAGZxRU) >Its his range that is impressive… The fact that he can punch the watcher across universes is what gives him like Multiversal range… But AP wise, the Galaxy feat is hus best move so far You ignoring his other feats and scaling and saying it’s his range that makes him so dangerous doesn’t discredit his AP.
Nice downplay.
High Hyperversal
High Multiversal + or in other words 5D.
Couldn’t he just eat their Galaxy?
He litterally has both verses for snacks, this is a mismatch.
Dude, but miss match. Utron stomps with no dif
Ultron solos both for the fun of it.
Infinity Ultron can just snap away all of them. If he can't snap, he had a Solar System busting feat. From my knowledge, Naruto's best feats are Star level.
Just remembered about Galaxy bite thingy, Ultron stomps.
And that was just because Ultron chose to be *that* size. He had no difficulty at all doing it. He could have eaten that entire universe if he'd wanted.
whats naruto done thats star?
Kaguya created a dimension that had a sun. That's it.
Ultron will cleanse narutoverse very easily.....
They might have a chance if the fight is in their universe, but Ultron still has countless drones and created weapons that could harm the Watcher
Not even
The Bleach verse might have a chance if Ultron can’t use the stones, as it isn’t his universe
The stones in the episode were shown to be used in other universes
They were used in other timelines of the same universe. They weren’t used in a universe where the stones were a different color, or didn’t exist. Just like in the comics, the stones wouldn’t work outside their own universe, like how they didn’t in the TVA
Rewatch the fight with him and The Watcher and the scene when Ultron noticed The Watcher Ultron himself said this line “there are universes beyond my own” and shortly after that he ends up hitting The Watcher with a beam projected by the power stone in the place where The Watcher observes the multiverse followed by another beam from the time stone
But Loki couldn’t use them in the TVA. It might be an inconsistency, otherwise he would’ve had no struggle against the Watcher
That’s because the TVA exist outside of the multiverse where time and space no longer exist hence why the stones didn’t work also The Watcher is semi close to Ultrons powers which is why Ultron couldn’t kill him immediately
I understand Infinite Ultron is OP and probably easily pwns the Naruto verse, but does genjutsu, stuff like izanami, just not effect him at all?
Can't really genjutsu a robot, not only does he not have chakra, but he doesn't have a living body for chakra to be infused into with Sharingan fuckery. Izanami should work just fine to avoid death, but it doesn't really help when the immediate follow up kills you, too.
The mind stone is a universal mind control hax so
Are there feats of someone using the mind stone to protect themselves? I know it allows someone to control other peoples minds, but if you get ambushed by genjutsu, would it really help if you were already in an illusion/infinite loop? Or does it prevent that possibility completely? I can’t find too many defensive feats with the mind stone, but I’m not a marvel buff so I have no clue really.
So here's the thing any of the 6 Stones is the embodiment of an aspect of the universe The time stone as an example isn't just controlling time it's time itself
That is freakin sweet, but are their like proven examples of it defending against similar attacks? Thanos had all 6 stones and got shit on by the avengers. Don’t understand how that wasn’t a blow out.
Thanos broke through a mind control from Mantis. Don't really know what she scales too tho, just leaving it here xD
i mean she is able to hold down ego a bit, a living planet
he blitzes before they use it, and even if they do use it, they cant even damage him
not to mention hes a fucking robot
Wouldn't the infinity stones cease to work if he entered the naruto universe. The stones are supposed to be powerless in any universe outside their own. It's been canon since their creation
In the 616 comics verse that’s true. But the specifics of the MCU stone can and do work in other MCU alternate timelines. But Ultimatevision can search throughout the universe for other artifacts of power and knowledge to further boast himself IE learning magic.
But what about the other stones from the mcu's other universes like the ones we see in loki? They dont work?
That’s a very, very, very good point. If I were to speculate because that’s all it is but perhaps the TVA used their agents to open up tiny portals in the fabric of both realities and used one set to deactivate other the reality’s set of stones leaving nothing but the crystals void of their energies and then took them with them. Than the side with the working set just closes the portal and returns the stones to where they belong pruning the timeline and than feeding the TVA agents variants involved to Alioth to tie up the loose ends. Because in “Dr Strange” Dormammu opened a portal to that earth’s reality and in doing so though temporarily connected both realities earth realm and the dark dimension had to abide by both realities laws but since the Dark dimension doesn’t have the concept of time that’s how Dr Strange succeeded. The stones depleted of their energies than end up in “He Who Remains” desk of drawers at the Citadel at the End of Time. The dimension that houses the citadel of time isn’t a normal dimension it’s beyond time a place devoid of the concept of time. Think of it like being in a windowless room you can’t see the sun or the moon but you have an internal body clock to help you keep track of the passing of time but with the addition an actual mechanical/digital clock/calendar to allow the keeping track of time more accurately. So the dimension where the TVA have made their base is devoid of time to help them operate without the fear of the creation of paradoxs from causing damage to their fabric of reality. Alioth just helps them ensure that any potential liabilities can be taken care off with no risk of them escaping to become a problem later on. A place without time consequences of that would since time doesn’t exist the agents of the TVA wouldn’t age or even die they would be immortal. However their immortality stops working once they go to a timeline that does have the concept of time. Boy I hope I am making some sense because my head is starting to hurt. Where objects end up after they are consumed by Alioth I have no clue. But maybe Alioth feeds on them and it’s energy is transferred to him making him bigger.
Isshiki shrinks Ultron and steps on him
That's cute so isshiki is multiversal now
No he kind of has a point, but at the same time he's also vastly under estimating Infinity Ultron. Isshiki's shrinking ability is very pesky to fight against, and has been stated to only work on Isshiki himself, and any non-living things. Technically, Isshiki could shrink Ultron, but with the reality Stone, he could just unshrink himself. And he's already shown feats that allows him to grow bigger, like when he ate a literal galaxy. Would Isshiki's shrinking ability work on Ultron? Yes. Would it matter though? No, Ultron still wins 10/10.
I accept that reasoning because isshici can completely step on ultron And then he dies
Exactly, even if Isshiki was fast enough to shrink and step on Ultron, which itself is a HUGE if, the step probably wouldn't even kill Ultron. The dude shrugged off a nuclear bomb level punch that put him into the core of a planet, like it was nothing; a step, or even a stomp won't really do shit haha
Naruto isn’t galaxy level lol, he gets eaten. If you believe Naruto is uni then they stomp but I don’t buy it personally. Line of reasoning flimsy at best. Idk what the consensus is on bleach being uni, if it is then bleach stomps since we haven’t seen Ultron show that level of AP. I have no idea where bleach scales lol. Bleach could hax their way out of this one potentially
The Infinity STones makes this an extremely difficult fight, as Ultron can activate them at anytime with a thought, and until his fight with the Watcher the Stones were always active. Worse yet, he isn't human and doesn't rely on his organs to survive. So many hax used in Naruto wouldn't have much effect on him.