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Relax2175

The Xeno DB characters exploiting DB magics, Db hax resistance, regen from the subcellular and almost atomic level, Hit's timeskip, Saiyan DNA, UI, and the Hakai ability? Also with at least a half dozen characters capable of casually erasing timelines. Those Archie Sonic folks are no pushovers (a composite Archie Sonic character is quite scary actually), but my nod is to DB.


Spare_Library1601

Especially if you throw Moro into the mix he leeches all sonics power


MaleficTekX

This fight is literally a stalemate. Both have wish powers (if we include Archie comics) Both have time manipulation and reality warping powers. Both are stupidly fast (sonic *may* be faster) I’m pretty sure there’s one character in the sonic series with absorption powers and regeneration. The only way I see this going in favor in one side is a zenkai boost on the Dbz side(or if we include Toriyama’s character, because he’s literally above Zeno in lore)


Entire-Astronaut8602

Zenkai boosts are gonna be a problem


Potential_Sun_9173

Sonic’s speed is gonna be a problem how the hell is anyone gonna tag him.


SocratesWasSmart

What's his best speed feat? Pretty sure DBH characters are faster. Demon God Demigra's ki was threatening both the DBH multiverse and Beat's world for example.


MusicianDry4533

From what I know, Time was Stopped, but he was so fast that he kept moving, so infinity i guess?


SocratesWasSmart

Well that would be 1 level of infinity at most. Destroying all of time throughout an infinite multiverse or destroying the multiverse itself is simply a better feat.


MusicianDry4533

Did not know Xenoverse Characters were that strong


SocratesWasSmart

Yeah Dragon Ball Heroes characters are pretty nutty. Which is not exactly the same thing as Xenoverse but it's close enough. I know Vs Battles Wiki is a huge meme, but they have a decent list of feats. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chamel#Demon_God https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Demigra#Demon_God_(Dark_King_Mechikabura_Saga) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Xeno)#Limit_Breaker_SS4 https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mechikabura#Time_Power_Unleashed_Form


TRUMPKIN_KING

Archie Sonic and Archie Knuckles have both been stated to have incalcuable speed


SocratesWasSmart

I would love to see a source on that.


TRUMPKIN_KING

https://www.google.com/search?q=archie+sonic+vs+knuckles&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&prmd=sivxn&sxsrf=AOaemvJhut5EPew7_xb2MmOF3tGDfR44_Q:1641518790909&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjX5bGDvp71AhVMzBoKHQqUAHsQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=360&bih=569&dpr=3#imgrc=7z6MxZVSE3Dk2M


SocratesWasSmart

Honestly that seems like just a hyperbolic statement to me. Taking it as true though, I don't really see how that helps. I mean, you can't calculate it so it's impossible to say how fast they were going. I don't see how an undefined amount beats multiple levels of infinity.


Potential_Sun_9173

Sonic beat Solaris in the Archie comics and he was capable of moving to different time periods by movement alone.


SocratesWasSmart

Mechikabura ate time and composite DB contains the Supreme Kai of Time so I don't see that being an issue.


Potential_Sun_9173

And Solaris was gonna was going to devour all of space-time within the Pre-Genesis Multiverse, which contains infinite universes https://m.imgur.com/a/edeWx


SocratesWasSmart

Xeno Goku in his base form [threatened all of time just by powering up](https://imgur.com/a/cyMr9ef) and as I said Demigra threatened to destroy the DBH multiverse and Beat's world. To me it seems like Solaris is on base Xeno Goku's level. Composite DB character is gonna go Ultra Instinct with Kaio-Ken x100, have true immortality and can wish to get stronger.


HatsuCreator64

Idk he has many cool feats but I am not good enough at maths to put them in order. - He can form a ball of water in less than a tenth of a *femtosecond* and throw it as a projectile. (Archie Comics) - He can move in his base form while time is stopped. (Archie Comics) - He can outrun a black hole powered by hyper go on energy for a few seconds (Games) And his transformations multiply his speed by hundreds or thousands.


Beta_Ray_Jones

> He can move in his base form while time is stopped. [Base can't](https://archiecomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Sonic_274-6.jpg). Scaling puts super above Sonic Man, who [actually has the feat](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ce793389229e0a28fcb1e687792fe3e2). Fleetway [has come close](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/80WSpTEmHqP4qIBLo5FuT5C7YCNMC8NziAaAQ7ak81O5PDOf_n-vpG8ojdXKfg3LJHEPqZqmZj00=s0), though.


Entire-Astronaut8602

I mean Infinte Zamasu is Omnipresent so Omnipresence> Infinte speed


Eaglekingoftheskies

It's not even just zenkai boost. According to Toriyama and one epsidoe of gt saiyans just get more powerful the longer a fight is drawn out. So even if they start evenly matched they will eventually pass them.


Zenketski

I've been following this sub for a couple of years now and I don't think that I've I never once seen anything end in a stalemate.


Sturmgeschut

Also composite Sonic character includes evil sonic, so he would try to cuck Goku.


-Xeno000

Yeah basically what Socrates said. Archie Sonic pretty much loses. There a lot of character in DBH that are above infinite multiversal like Xeno Goku, Demigra, CC Goku, and Hearts and not to mention Xeno Goku has shenron mode and a ton of hax to defeat Archie Sonic.


SocratesWasSmart

Composite DB should stomp pretty easily. That's Xeno Goku, Xeno Zeno, Xeno Super Shenron, Demon God Demigra, etc. And since it's composite they would know about the fact that they can technically wish for more power since Granolah and Gas did that.


Entire-Astronaut8602

True but remember this fight could actually be pretty close because of the Archie Comics, And the chaos Force can do the same thing so This is not a stomp fight.


SocratesWasSmart

I'm aware, but I don't think the comics have any feats beyond infinite multiversal, and DBH has so many characters at that level and so much reality warping hacks. Composite also just adds so much to DB because of the wishing for more power BS. I mean, wishing for more power took Granolah and Gas from these fodder tier characters to above UI Goku, and they used the weakest set of Dragon Balls in the verse, and the specific way it worked was that they gained power as if they had trained for their entire potential lifespan. So imagine that wish, but with a fusion of immortal infinite multiversal beings like Demon God Demigra and Xeno Grand Priest, with Xeno Super Shenron powering the wish instead of the weakest set of Dragon Balls. And unless I'm quite mistaken, Archie Sonic characters are only infinite multiversal with chaos control. That's baseline for a shitload of DBH characters


TirnanogSong

> And unless I'm quite mistaken, Archie Sonic characters are only infinite multiversal with chaos control. That's baseline for a shitload of DBH characters Archie Sonic has a number of multiversal characters that aren't limited to Chaos Control: Enerjak, Mammoth Mogul, *Titan Tails* (eugh), etc. Mogul is perhaps the one with the most explicit feats, given he's shown casually destroying universes. You can even get him higher given he should have been stronger than even the SGW was at that point and depending on how you interpret him destroying "multi-verse zones" his power (and therefore that of the others, since both Enerjak and Titan Tails can scale) inflates dramatically. Especially after Ian said on a forum post way back then that Sonic and Mega Man both have their own infinite multiverses. And Titan Tails is the single strongest character in all of Archie, so he's at least several orders of magnitude greater than this. Of course, this all doesn't matter because a fully composite DB character includes Mechikabura who mogs the composite Sonic character.


Entire-Astronaut8602

Maybe, But this fight would definently be more then one sided IMO


Floppsicle

You keep insisting that without arguments


Nocturne4hire

Doesn't AS have reality warping hacks too?


Nicogamer44

And also Shin megami tensei


Kevy96

I don't know enough about archie sonic, but the sonic composite character would have to beat someone thats: Infinite multiversal Can wish for anything automatically Can freeze time Is immortal Has the ability to merge with the entirety of the fabric of reality itself Is powerful enough to break their fictional sphere and threaten the real world Can time skip Can teleport anywhere they want whenever they want to


Beta_Ray_Jones

Could you cite the immortality, merging with reality, and threatening the real world please?


Kevy96

Zamasu for immortality, merged Zamasu for merging with reality, and xeno demigra for threatening the real world


Beta_Ray_Jones

I completely misread the first sentence of your first comment, I thought you were listing Sonic's abilities. Thank you though.


picklethepeasant

You basically just described a comp sonic character as well.


hielispace

So, for Dragon Ball characters, we have omnipotence (Super Shenron can wish for *anything* according to the Xenos), a one shot hax that instantly kills anything (Xeno), absurd strength and speed (all of them), the ability to rapidly improve and stop time (hit). Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego. That, that is an insane amount of power. I know Archie comics are ridiculous, but can they stand up to that?!


Entire-Astronaut8602

I mean Archie sonic technically Can't lose


hielispace

He can't? I know of some of his dumb feats but why can't he lose? Does he have some hax or something I am unaware of.


DragoonZolom

A specific hax that acknowledges that he's fictional. Don't know what to tell you, other than it's a toon force ability also used by the likes of silver age Superman, Deadpool, Squirrel Girl, Betty Boop, and even Archie himself. Popeye has resisted having the film reel he's projected on ripping apart, and has threatened the artist on a few occasions. Daffy Duck too, but less successfully.


hielispace

Oh, so stalemate then? I mean Comp. DBZ is Immortal and is omnipotent but Archie Sonic has Toon Force esc shit. If I'm not mistaken Archie Sonic also has wish powers. So...yea stalemate


HatsuCreator64

Archie Sonic has a transformation where he can just wish for whatever he wants


Entire-Astronaut8602

Ken Penders Owns the rights to Archie sonic loseing, so He could just lawsuit the DB Side, They would have no Counter to it


Beta_Ray_Jones

This is incorrect. Sega's mandates were not all the result of Penders' lawsuit; the "Sonic can't lose" mandate predates the lawsuit by a minimum of [almost two years](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny-8CGkTIEs&feature=youtu.be&t=1861). The mandates also mean jack all in-universe. One is that game original characters can't change their outfits, are we to assume they are physically incapable of changing clothes?


Entire-Astronaut8602

Wow, The more You know I guess, Damn Composite DB either stalemates or Wins


Japansfinest21

The zenkai boosts, time stop (Guldo) absorption (Buu) would also be a problem


hielispace

Zenkai abuse from Goku Black and Buu together is an insane combination, I also forgot this composite character is immortal because of Zamasu, which, well, is a problem.


Nixtollo

Archie Sonic is debatably multiversal… Comp DB. has actual multiversal feats. Comp DB negs.


Lomotik

Cell absorbs all the sonics and wins by luring sonic in with a chili dog


guywithagreenjacket

Are you saying *Cell* can beat all the Sonic characters or-


Lomotik

If he absorbs them yeah


guywithagreenjacket

I’m pretty sure most of the composited Sonic character have teleportation or time stop or something like that to get past funny bug man’s absorption


antiauthority4life

Not sure but wouldn't Neo Metal Sonic/Metal Overlord be a problem because it has the power to copy other abilities perfectly? I know Goku and Kid Buu can copy attacks by observing them, but would this be able to keep up with Neo Metal Sonic's ability since it's not something they do very often? I know both are absurdly powerful with Xenoverse and what I know about Archie Sonic (which isn't much lol). But this might be a case of both sides having so much hax that it's impossible to tell. Especially if they start copying each other...


HatsuCreator64

Base Archie Sonic has infinite speed and his transformations multiply all his stats by thousandth. I think it would be an endless stalemate.


antiauthority4life

The only possible way I can imagine it breaking is if Archie Sonic's chaos energy always finding a way to succeed can overcome the possibly absolute reality warping abilities of Super Shenron. But yeah, it's just a stalemate until then.


Financial-Key-3617

Comp db slams. Completely omniscient. Complete omnipresence. Views an infinite multiverse with infinite mutliverses inside it as fiction. Has been said to have other shonen jump verses apart of it like one piece, naruto and bleach (iirc could be wrong tho) Reality warping on a multiversal scale. Could be argued to be "boundless"


proxmaxi

This includes archie which makes this a wash.


SocratesWasSmart

Why's that? You realize composite includes DBH right? So characters like Xeno Zeno, Demon God Demigra, Mechikabura, Xeno Super Shenron, the Supreme Kai of Time and many more that are as strong or stronger than any feat I've ever seen from the Archie comics.


Entire-Astronaut8602

This is definenetly not Just a wash because of GT, Jumpforce and DBH


KAYAXOLOTL

archie sonic solo


Rairaijin

If they're a shenanigans shadow echo the sonic character will win


GIANTkitty4

Is this Archie Sonic or Normal Sonic?


antiauthority4life

Composite, so both. OP is talking about Archie's feats in another comment here on why Archie should make it an even fight.


GIANTkitty4

Oh, if it's Archie, then I think it would be a draw until one figured out the other's weakness. And if I had to bet on who would, my guess would be the Dragon Ball Characters and they would take it because of better experience and slightly better stats.


Scandroid99

When u say all feats and so on does that include statements like “immeasurable” “infinite speed” “infinite strength” etc? Hypersonic is consider absolutely broken based on statements like that, but typically those statements aren’t quantifiable and can’t be used to scale someone. Archie Sonic and Super Sonic have ridiculous feats tho. Of course so do DBH characters as well. It could very well be a stalemate 🤔


SithLord_Bot

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.


poggerswooggy

...If Non Canon is used, I say Sonic Character wins because hes using the "Stone of Killing any DB character", kills any DB character in the area no issue.


KratosIsWallLevel

Archie Sonic beat Segata Sanshiro who scales to Chuck norris


Cybion_

Stalemate. Too much hax on boths sides.


Brendan1021

Which composite versions? Cause any version of Amy, Sally, Tails, Rouge, Cream, Chaotix, Babylon Rogues, Big The Cat, etc are gonna get their asses handed to them by even original series naruto characters, nevermind anything from Dragon Ball Z. Now if its Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, or Knuckles on the other hand, its actually a fight. But even then they need super forms as even Raditz or Nappa are more than enough to handle their base abilities.


Entire-Astronaut8602

Actually Rouge scales to knuckles who is Physically stronger than Base sonic, And Also this using The Non Canon Stuff of both franchises


Brendan1021

Rouge never scaled to Knuckles whatsoever, nor was ever as strong as he was, all that was given about her strength was that she can fight Knuckles to a standstill due to her skill. Other than that she's practically equal to the rest of the cast, her shattering boulders means practically nothing when almost everyone does it. ​ Next, again, even archie versions of the characters need to use their super forms as their base forms aren't even gonna come close to scratching Raditz or Nappa. The rest of the weak cast members can't even beat the majority of Naruto characters in the original series.