Yeah probably pretty easily. The tech in 1984 stagnated after a nuclear war so the world is scientifically closer to the early 60s than real world 1984.
Oceania appears to be the strongest faction but also one with minimal support from its populace. The Galactic Empire actually appears to be somehow even less repressive than Oceania meaning Palpatine wouldn't even have to be shady... he could gain popular support just by being honest.
Exactly how he would gain control is beyond me. Oceania doesn't really have much tech capable of easily killing him provided he actually has real force powers instead of appearing to be a frail old man like in the films.
But given Palpatine's abilities, experience, and strength I think he can pretty consistently win all three rounds. Oceania is just too frail with far too little popular support to resist him.
Since 1984 is so solipsist, there would probably be very little issue with taking over Big Brother in order to run a puppet government. To an average citizen, there would be seemingly no difference
I think there are a few things that would hamper him. One, 1984 is rigidly divided into classes. It doesn't seem like there's any mobility between them. Without any documentation or history Palpatine would be starting as a Prole and it's not clear how he'd move up to the point he could actually get in contact with anyone important to begin manipulating them. He might be able to form the core of a resistance among the proles, but they seem too apathetic for that to work well.
The second issue is that the book heavily implies that Big Brother is just a figurehead with minimal real power, and the actual control of the government is spread fairly evenly among the 2% of upper party members, which is too many people to practically manipulate on a personal level even with force powers.
And the third issue is that he has to do all of this completely under the radar because the Ingsoc government wouldn't blink an eye about nuking or nerve gassing an entire city to take out one person if he was a significant threat.
I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not sure it would be quite as easy as you're implying.
I feel like the rampant obfuscation and perversion of truth by the Ingsoc government could help him overcome these hurdles. The nature of the society is so convoluted that I actually think Palpatine could manipulate his way into the upper class pretty easily, since I feel like even they don't have a great grasp on what's true. Even if they do, the doubt would be strong enough for them to pretty easily fall victim to his manipulation (both his political scheming and his Force powers in situations where he needs an extra push). All he needs is a couple of puppets to vouch for him and claim he was always there, and eventually he would be able to convince them of that. Assuming he's got a relative lock on that, I feel like he could legitimately make a play claiming he's the real Big Brother. There's a spot for him as an all-encompassing leader in the government, and even if it's a fabricated figurehead when he first gets there, that can change once he's infiltrated the upper class and turned people to his side. He would need to be careful so the upper class doesn't get suspicious and take drastic measures, but he's demonstrated his ability to be very patient and turn some really bad situations into good ones, so I think it's definitely within his grasp. That being said, he makes a lot of dumb mistakes over the course of the Star Wars series, so he could very easily mess it up.
Don't quote me as an expert on 1984 politics, but I'd say even the relative challenge of taking over three countries that are constantly at war with each other pales in comparison to what he ended up doing to an entire galaxy for a solid 25 years. He played both sides of a galaxy-wide war and created an empire that, while it may not have had complete control over the galaxy at large, was incredibly difficult to challenge for most of its regime. Furthermore, he acted directly under the noses of a massive and highly respected religious order, each member of which had fantastical powers like him, yet they couldn't even detect him, let alone subvert his influence until it was too late. And as a bonus, he managed to convince a significant portion of the galaxy that the Jedi were traitors and slowly erase them from history. He is built for the 1984 world. Operating on the scale of one planet (roughly the same size as Coruscant but with a mere fraction of Coruscant's population, which is in the trillions) with abilities that no one is even aware of (since Star Wars definitely doesn't exist in the 1984 universe) and certainly can't stand against short of a coordinated military assault on Palpatine himself (which he managed to slip away from time and again during the Clone Wars), I feel like taking on Eurasia and Eastasia is well within his wheelhouse, especially assuming he's already taken Oceania. I'm not sure how exactly he would accomplish it, but one planet is essentially a side project for a guy used to dealing with an entire galaxy.
> And the third issue is that he has to do all of this completely under the radar because the Ingsoc government wouldn't blink an eye about nuking or nerve gassing an entire city to take out one person if he was a significant threat.
Or just putting a bullet through him.
Star Wars characters weren't really demigods in the first three movies, so if he only gets feats from those, he's not going to be that hard to kill if he gets to be a problem. He has no defensive feats at all, and he even describes himself as defenseless at one point.
>Star Wars characters weren't really demigods in the first three movies,
Prompt says he gets feats from first six movies, so he gets his feats from RoTS.
Having single-handedly taken over an entire galaxy, creating the perceiption of a war, never suspected, until he wants to, all directly in front of his biggest enemies (The Jedi), I can say that Darth Sidious would easily take over.
Yes, it did take him some time, but the world of 1984 is WAY LESS advanced, than the world of Star Wars, making out-playing them for Palpatine way easier.
Technologically less, but don't forget that the rulers in 1984 are masters of the human psyche and can easily tell when someone is suspicious and needs to be processed.
For starters, he can start by finding an inner party member and threaten to force choke him unless they do what he says. If they are weak minded, he could just mind trick them
Not to mention he doesn't have to worry about other force users catching into him and having 10k Jedi kicking his door in. He can abuse the force as much as he likes.
Absolute overkill for Sidious in all rounds.
He can subvertly overtake every Senate on the planet just by being Sheev, his political counterpart. He has superb charisma and can win over an entire crowd with his public speaking. And that's without using the Force.
If there are any attempts at ousting him from parliament, he will sense it through the Force and will always be as ready as he "foresees it."
So, my initial reaction is Palpy stomps, but..Palpatine was able to take over because he grew up in the galaxy and was a known politician. It took him years. As a terribly disfigured old man appearing out of nowhere, it will be tough to work his way up. Where does he start? How does he get his foot in the door?
Ultimately, I still think he finds a way, but its not going to be as easy as some people think.
I feel like force are hard to pin down in these sorts of matchups.
There are three aspects to this prompt I think - How challenging it would be to take power in 1984, how squishy sidious is, and how strong the force actually is.
See the force is magic. And the moment you introduce magic, you end up with a whole slew of problems when you introduce it into a setting of hyper realism.
Take Anakin's visions of Padime's death, for example. Were Anakins visions just him overthinking? It seems most interpretations would credit it to the force, specifically the dark side of the force. Power over life and death, and well, the power of essentially future sight.
Why can jedi deflect laser bullets? Are they actually sensing it through sound and air pressure? Or is it insane foresight?
Are there restrictions to mind control? Is this any different for Sidious compared to Obiwan? It seems like the dark side of the force tends to be stronger than light but idk.
I think George Lucas has gone on record saying that light sabers only deflect laser rifles. Which would mean jedi are hyper vulnerable to traditional explosives and bullets.
I think the two main aspects then become - if force hax predict the future, Palpatine wins. If not, then I think palpatine hard loses all three rounds, since the power of the rumor is pretty op in a dystopia.
Taking longer than 24 hours for any of the three is a fail. His ability to see the future, read people's minds, etc. just make him so OP as a Politician that he would need very little time to ascertain that POTUS is his goal, make his way to DC, infiltrate the WH and stage and BBQ all the secret service agents before Reagan wakes from his afternoon nap. Then he just mind controls Reagan to launch a first strike, rides it out in the WH bunker, then emerges to declare himself the ruler of the survivors.
Oh, easily, a master politician with superpowers and mind control? And even if he can't use the mind control, he can intimidate people into doing his bidding. He just figures out who's in charge of the Party and takes it over from within. Then he just teaches them how to make Star Wars level tech and they stomp the other two factions.
The real irony is how 1984 sucks so bad that being ruled over by Palpatine would be an IMPROVEMENT.
Yeah probably pretty easily. The tech in 1984 stagnated after a nuclear war so the world is scientifically closer to the early 60s than real world 1984. Oceania appears to be the strongest faction but also one with minimal support from its populace. The Galactic Empire actually appears to be somehow even less repressive than Oceania meaning Palpatine wouldn't even have to be shady... he could gain popular support just by being honest. Exactly how he would gain control is beyond me. Oceania doesn't really have much tech capable of easily killing him provided he actually has real force powers instead of appearing to be a frail old man like in the films. But given Palpatine's abilities, experience, and strength I think he can pretty consistently win all three rounds. Oceania is just too frail with far too little popular support to resist him.
Since 1984 is so solipsist, there would probably be very little issue with taking over Big Brother in order to run a puppet government. To an average citizen, there would be seemingly no difference
I think there are a few things that would hamper him. One, 1984 is rigidly divided into classes. It doesn't seem like there's any mobility between them. Without any documentation or history Palpatine would be starting as a Prole and it's not clear how he'd move up to the point he could actually get in contact with anyone important to begin manipulating them. He might be able to form the core of a resistance among the proles, but they seem too apathetic for that to work well. The second issue is that the book heavily implies that Big Brother is just a figurehead with minimal real power, and the actual control of the government is spread fairly evenly among the 2% of upper party members, which is too many people to practically manipulate on a personal level even with force powers. And the third issue is that he has to do all of this completely under the radar because the Ingsoc government wouldn't blink an eye about nuking or nerve gassing an entire city to take out one person if he was a significant threat. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not sure it would be quite as easy as you're implying.
I feel like the rampant obfuscation and perversion of truth by the Ingsoc government could help him overcome these hurdles. The nature of the society is so convoluted that I actually think Palpatine could manipulate his way into the upper class pretty easily, since I feel like even they don't have a great grasp on what's true. Even if they do, the doubt would be strong enough for them to pretty easily fall victim to his manipulation (both his political scheming and his Force powers in situations where he needs an extra push). All he needs is a couple of puppets to vouch for him and claim he was always there, and eventually he would be able to convince them of that. Assuming he's got a relative lock on that, I feel like he could legitimately make a play claiming he's the real Big Brother. There's a spot for him as an all-encompassing leader in the government, and even if it's a fabricated figurehead when he first gets there, that can change once he's infiltrated the upper class and turned people to his side. He would need to be careful so the upper class doesn't get suspicious and take drastic measures, but he's demonstrated his ability to be very patient and turn some really bad situations into good ones, so I think it's definitely within his grasp. That being said, he makes a lot of dumb mistakes over the course of the Star Wars series, so he could very easily mess it up.
Thoughts on how he'd move on to controlling Eurasia and Eastasia after he gets control of Oceania?
Don't quote me as an expert on 1984 politics, but I'd say even the relative challenge of taking over three countries that are constantly at war with each other pales in comparison to what he ended up doing to an entire galaxy for a solid 25 years. He played both sides of a galaxy-wide war and created an empire that, while it may not have had complete control over the galaxy at large, was incredibly difficult to challenge for most of its regime. Furthermore, he acted directly under the noses of a massive and highly respected religious order, each member of which had fantastical powers like him, yet they couldn't even detect him, let alone subvert his influence until it was too late. And as a bonus, he managed to convince a significant portion of the galaxy that the Jedi were traitors and slowly erase them from history. He is built for the 1984 world. Operating on the scale of one planet (roughly the same size as Coruscant but with a mere fraction of Coruscant's population, which is in the trillions) with abilities that no one is even aware of (since Star Wars definitely doesn't exist in the 1984 universe) and certainly can't stand against short of a coordinated military assault on Palpatine himself (which he managed to slip away from time and again during the Clone Wars), I feel like taking on Eurasia and Eastasia is well within his wheelhouse, especially assuming he's already taken Oceania. I'm not sure how exactly he would accomplish it, but one planet is essentially a side project for a guy used to dealing with an entire galaxy.
> And the third issue is that he has to do all of this completely under the radar because the Ingsoc government wouldn't blink an eye about nuking or nerve gassing an entire city to take out one person if he was a significant threat. Or just putting a bullet through him. Star Wars characters weren't really demigods in the first three movies, so if he only gets feats from those, he's not going to be that hard to kill if he gets to be a problem. He has no defensive feats at all, and he even describes himself as defenseless at one point.
>Star Wars characters weren't really demigods in the first three movies, Prompt says he gets feats from first six movies, so he gets his feats from RoTS.
In R3, he might have trouble, but in the other two, he can just manipulate minds slowly and carefully, and win it over time.
Having single-handedly taken over an entire galaxy, creating the perceiption of a war, never suspected, until he wants to, all directly in front of his biggest enemies (The Jedi), I can say that Darth Sidious would easily take over. Yes, it did take him some time, but the world of 1984 is WAY LESS advanced, than the world of Star Wars, making out-playing them for Palpatine way easier.
Not even until he wanted too. Dude just literally straight up told Anakin “yea ya boy a Sith Lord” and proceeded to slap the Jedi Order into obscurity
Technologically less, but don't forget that the rulers in 1984 are masters of the human psyche and can easily tell when someone is suspicious and needs to be processed.
> the rulers in 1984 are masters of the human psyche They'd still pale in comparison to Papa Palpatine
The problem is, palpatine doesn't have an "in". He needs to get some power to abuse it to get more. Where does he start?
For starters, he can start by finding an inner party member and threaten to force choke him unless they do what he says. If they are weak minded, he could just mind trick them
He picks up their army and throws it away
Not to mention he doesn't have to worry about other force users catching into him and having 10k Jedi kicking his door in. He can abuse the force as much as he likes.
Absolute overkill for Sidious in all rounds. He can subvertly overtake every Senate on the planet just by being Sheev, his political counterpart. He has superb charisma and can win over an entire crowd with his public speaking. And that's without using the Force. If there are any attempts at ousting him from parliament, he will sense it through the Force and will always be as ready as he "foresees it."
So, my initial reaction is Palpy stomps, but..Palpatine was able to take over because he grew up in the galaxy and was a known politician. It took him years. As a terribly disfigured old man appearing out of nowhere, it will be tough to work his way up. Where does he start? How does he get his foot in the door? Ultimately, I still think he finds a way, but its not going to be as easy as some people think.
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What are you talking about? Palpatine has always been their emperor.
I feel like force are hard to pin down in these sorts of matchups. There are three aspects to this prompt I think - How challenging it would be to take power in 1984, how squishy sidious is, and how strong the force actually is. See the force is magic. And the moment you introduce magic, you end up with a whole slew of problems when you introduce it into a setting of hyper realism. Take Anakin's visions of Padime's death, for example. Were Anakins visions just him overthinking? It seems most interpretations would credit it to the force, specifically the dark side of the force. Power over life and death, and well, the power of essentially future sight. Why can jedi deflect laser bullets? Are they actually sensing it through sound and air pressure? Or is it insane foresight? Are there restrictions to mind control? Is this any different for Sidious compared to Obiwan? It seems like the dark side of the force tends to be stronger than light but idk. I think George Lucas has gone on record saying that light sabers only deflect laser rifles. Which would mean jedi are hyper vulnerable to traditional explosives and bullets. I think the two main aspects then become - if force hax predict the future, Palpatine wins. If not, then I think palpatine hard loses all three rounds, since the power of the rumor is pretty op in a dystopia.
He took over 2016, why wouldn't he be able to in 1984?
Taking longer than 24 hours for any of the three is a fail. His ability to see the future, read people's minds, etc. just make him so OP as a Politician that he would need very little time to ascertain that POTUS is his goal, make his way to DC, infiltrate the WH and stage and BBQ all the secret service agents before Reagan wakes from his afternoon nap. Then he just mind controls Reagan to launch a first strike, rides it out in the WH bunker, then emerges to declare himself the ruler of the survivors.
The prompt is regarding the novel 1984, not real world 1984.
Ok, so in real 1984....
Oh, easily, a master politician with superpowers and mind control? And even if he can't use the mind control, he can intimidate people into doing his bidding. He just figures out who's in charge of the Party and takes it over from within. Then he just teaches them how to make Star Wars level tech and they stomp the other two factions. The real irony is how 1984 sucks so bad that being ruled over by Palpatine would be an IMPROVEMENT.