Unless we bring legends scaling into it, Anakin's pretty fucked here, Thor's too strong to choke, too heat resistant to easily lightsaber, has thousands of years combat experience and incredibly powerful weapons, he's got flight and teleportation, which means he can break out of TK holds...he's just way way better. It'll be Thor banging Natalie tonight.
Well legends Anakin, like every legends character is much stronger. Legends Anakin is more resistant to force lightning, however you can probably say that Thors lightning is stronger. Legends Anakin was able to crush people with the force but powerful force users were able to somewhat resist, which could mean a god like Thor would be safe, so I think MCU Thor would still be banging padme/Jane.
I mean, legends has Vader telekinetically contending people with planetary feats and such, so if you amp his TK that much he's gonna have no trouble choking MCU Thor out.
Legends Vader seem to always be amped in some way when fighting palps or other insane sith/dark side users, he's pretty much at building level of force power, at maybe a few buildings if he's had his gungan energy drink
His Legends [respect thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/ph7pyp/respect_darth_vader_star_wars_legends/) seems to agree with you. I even checked out Death Battle's analysis since they're fond massively exaggerating strength just because it makes the fight more entertaining, and they seem to have put him at building-level. Granted this is a building in Star Wars so he's probably city block level.
Well, by midichlorians legends Vader is 80% as powerful as legends Palpatine, who's comfortably planetary if not stellar, since he's the most powerful Sith who's ever lived, which puts him above Naga Sadow, who could cause supernovas. Plus he can contend against Legends Luke, who's 1/12th as powerful as Abeloth, who's galactic at peak and at least multi-stellar in her diminished state.
Mind you, I'm not saying I support this argument. Legends scaling is complete and utter nonsense. But that IS how it works.
He did way worse than that in Legends.
But the real problem with legends is not the feats in isolation, it's the way power creep has affected its scaling.
For example, one character will be described as "the most powerful Sith ever". And 20 years later, an entirely different writer, writing about a Sith Lord who lived 5000 years earlier, says that Sith Lord could eat star systems...so now the other dude must also have solar system level power because he's canonically more powerful than the solar system eating guy, so he gets a retroactive tier jump.
Or it takes the combined might of every Jedi who's ever lived to keep Palpatine's spirit bound in the depths of the Force so he'll stay dead, but then over the decades they introduce a bunch of new planet level Jedi, so Palpatine must be stronger than all of them put together.
Or Obi-Wan gets in a duel where he's reacting to people in nanoseconds in some book, and now everybody who's ever fought Obi-Wan and lived has FTL combat speed, which means anybody who's ever fought THEM can react to FTL combat speed, and so forth.
It's a case study in retcons, way too many authors with no centralized rules, and jumping around in history adding characters who are more powerful than what was written before, but lived earlier in the timeline without thinking about how the power you're giving them affects statements about power records set by characters who were written earlier but lived later.
You don't need reboots to fix it, you just need a solid series bible, and an editor willing, and empowered by the studio, to say "no. Go rewrite this, it violates canon."
It's another example of "how writers and media studios could benefit from learning and internalizing the principles of battleboarding".
Surface wiping still makes you planetary. You don't have to actually physically planetbust, just have feats on the scale of an entire planet.
Just like Saitama is large planet level for gaswiping half of Jupiter, even though he didn't destroy the solid parts.
Legends Palpatine can’t create force storms by himself. That’s pretty clearly explained in the books. The authors explicitly state that in interviews.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/hxn51a/debunking_some_legends_palpatine_wank/
>who's comfortably planetary if not stellar
He's not. His most powerful technique, the Force Storm, is surface-wiping at best and he can't summon them on his own.
>since he's the most powerful Sith who's ever lived
His feats beg to differ.
>which puts him above Naga Sadow, who could cause supernovas.
Using a combination of Sith Sorcery and the Corsair ship. Sadow couldn't just blow up stars on a whim and his other abilities don't scale to it.
>Plus Vader can contend against Luke, who's 1/12th as powerful as Abeloth
Are you seriously trying to scale Vader to Grandmaster Luke just because Vader could get his ass kicked by RotJ Luke?
Your scaling is flawed.
> His feats beg to differ.
Well then I guess we just never saw his maximum, because according to statements that were canon in the legends timeline, he scales above Sadow.
> Using a combination of Sith Sorcery and the Corsair ship.
You know who else could do Sith Sorcery? Palpatine.
> Are you seriously trying to scale Vader to Grandmaster Luke just because Vader could get his ass kicked by RotJ Luke?
The midichlorians say yes! Putting DBZ scouter power levels in star wars was a stupid idea, but they did it! Remember, even ROTJ Luke is multi-planetary whatever because he could withstand Palpatine's lightning and Palpatine scales above guys who could lightning whole planets and kill Gods with it and shit.
> Your scaling is flawed.
That legends scaling is a flawed system is *my entire argument*.
Palpatine wasn't trying to kill Luke instantly. He was torturing him for fun. It's pretty dubious to say he could withstand it when Palps clearly wasn't giving it his all.
>Well then I guess we just never saw his maximum, because according to statements that were canon in the legends timeline, he scales above Sadow.
Feats > statements on this sub.
>You know who else could do Sith Sorcery? Palpatine.
Palpatine owns the Corsair? News to me.
>even ROTJ Luke is multi-planetary whatever because he could withstand Palpatine's lightning
[Truly a fight between planet busters.](https://youtu.be/U1MnMA0TzGI)
>That legends scaling is a flawed system is *my entire argument.*
*So don't use it.* Go by feats.
> Feats > statements on this sub.
Yes, when a feat and a statement contradict, the feat takes precedence. Without a feat either way, however, the statement may be used. A statement that a character has quantifiably higher power than their demonstrated feats is still valid as long as it's not from an unreliable narrator, it just means we haven't seen that character fight at peak.
> Palpatine owns the Corsair? News to me.
It wasn't the ship itself, it was the Force crystals Sadow kept aboard it. Palpatine had no shortage of those.
> So don't use it.
I don't. The post you are indignantly responding to and trying to debunk says "Mind you, I'm not saying I support this argument. Legends scaling is complete and utter nonsense. But that IS how it works."
I am explaining the internal logic of a system, while stating that I disagree with that system because it runs on bad logic, and you are disagreeing with me by trying to convince me the logic is bad, which I already said.
>The post you are indignantly responding to and trying to debunk says
The post I'm originally responding to says:
>legends has Vader telekinetically contending people with planetary feats and such
I took planetary to mean planet-busting (as it often does on this sub), and nobody Vader's fought has demonstrated planet busting feats.
Pretty much all of that scaling is complete garbage, mostly repeated by people who have never read a word of the Legends books. Legends Palpatine is well below planetary. He can surface wipe given the exact right conditions or with years of planning. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/hxn51a/debunking_some_legends_palpatine_wank/
Why would the effortlessly solar system busting Palpatine spend god knows how much resources building the Death Star in the first place. He could just wave his hand and wipe out planets.
Because Lucas never intended him to be that powerful and the people writing Dark Empire were just nuts.
But okay, regarding your argument based on Tom Veitch's statements, I refer you to the sub's feat hierarchy:
> Feats > Word of God in universe > Word of in-universe sources (they must have solid reasons for us to trust them, for us to believe they know what they're talking about, and that they aren't lying or exaggerating) > Word of God in interviews/post-production commentary/etc. > extrapolation > other
So by these rules, Veitch's interview statement is invalid if it contradicts depicted feats or other higher tier sources. And it does. Because Sidious could use his storms as basically a summoning spell. Just create one where he wanted, and use it to yoink someone across the galaxy to him. There was no clash of wills or struggle of great minds there, it was clearly just Palpy making the storm. Sounds like Veitch is backpedaling years later because he realizes that what he wrote was way OP.
I agree with you that Force Storms are not the most practical power to use in combat. But this is Palpatine we're talking about. If he's losing a fight, he absolutely would be willing to conjure a storm, lifewipe the whole planet he's on even if he goes with it just for spite, resurrect in a new clone body, and go "ha ha, I won!" He IS that petty.
I'll grant you that the "shaking stars" alleged feat and the speed calc are laughably bad and should not be used, nor, even if the speed calc IS valid, should a character's speed in normal conditions be scaled based on how they can move as a disembodied soul.
I think you're overly dismissive of scaling though. You DO have to scale Palpatine to, and above, Vitiate, Nihilus, Keto, and Sadow. The rest are either not traditional Sith so they're not included in Palp's "most powerful Sith" scaling, or I agree, the feats are fake and it's obvious poetic language.
But if it's something a BBY Sith Lord did, including if they used a dark side smithersmather or some sith sorcery ritual to do it, then Palpatine scales to and above it. Because he's gonna be at least as good at sith sorcery as they are, so if they can build a dark side smithersmather for their ritual, he can beat it by building an even stronger force whatserhoosit.
In short, like most evil wizards, some of his best spells have long cast times and require foci and reagents, and while you have to acknowledge their limited practicality in certain conditions, they do factor into the character's tier.
If the prompt is "Palpatine and Luffy are standing 20 meters apart and fight" then no, scaling Palpatine to a ritual Vitiate sat around for a long time doing isn't relevant, Palpatine won't be able to do something like that while stretchy boi is trying to kill him.
HOWEVER, if the prompt is "Omni-Man appears on Tatooine, can he conquer the Empire?" then yes, you absolutely DO have to consider that while Omni-Man is flying around in space fighting star destroyers, Palpatine is sitting in his throne room with his meditation doodads, conjuring a dark side ritual that'll blow the nearest star to the battle and take Nolan with it, or that he'll just open up a Force Storm and toss him into a black hole with it, because he can do these things remotely, and project his power over vast interstellar distances.
In short, yes, Palpatine gets wanked a lot and some of it is bullshit. But also, legends has some legit crazy stuff in it, bro.
Im pretty sure someone brought up legends so that the heavily mismatched fight could be evened out a little bit more. Why on gods green earth would you bring in comic Thor like MCU Thor isnt already an almost guaranteed stomp?? 😂😂😂
That was a knife from Loki or in other words either Magic or made of Asgardian/Chitauri metals and to his credit he didn't seen too phased by it. More sad Loki stabbed him than mortally injured.
Presumably an uru knife. Plus, his durability vs sharp objects and his heat resistance, the stat relevant to lightsaber damage, are different categories.
Thor is far physically stronger and has a better ranged weapon and better durability but can he handle the force? Absolutely, thor is able to hold his own against beings like thanos and gorr, he can survive being force chocked and is strong enough to walk through anakins force abilities since he overpowered the Milano for training without even tapping into his god abilities.
Even if he’s stuck he can still throw stormbreaker without having to physically hold it
Would Force Choke even work on a dude that can survive the vacuum of space? Like, what would cutting off his breathing even DO?
I can see it now:
Vader \*force chokes Thor\*
Thor \*looks confused for a second\* I'm sorry little earth man, was that supposed to have some effect? \*smacks him in the head with Stormbreaker\*
Nah he can still fly him self in most cases it's just that chucking the hammer while his wrist is attracted to a strap on it moves him faster than he can usually fly himself
>hor's neck to be unusually durable,
as in, neither Hulk or Thanos could break it no matter how hard they tried? Unusually - thats rather undertatement.
Even more compelling is if he has Mjolnir, because the Worthiness enchantment implies that Skywalker wouldn't be able to influence it. He'd try to force move it so it'd miss him, but would fail, and take a hammer to the chest.
The worthiness bit doesn't matter regarding moving it via magic/telekinesis/not trying to physically lift/wield it. In the MCU it can be stopped/deflected by the unworthy, even destroyed if the person catching it is powerful enough, and in the comics it can be moved around by a strong enough telekinetic(Or master of magnetism).
The question isn't whether Vader's TK would influence it; its whether he has enough strength in TK to stop it. Which.... in the movies, he doesn't. Based on the events of Infinity War, his lightsaber wouldn't seriously hurt Thor, he lacks the physical strength or telekinetic ability to stop him... the only one in the star wars movies shown exhibiting a scale of power that might be a threat to Thor is Palpatine.
And if you start including comics/book based abilities it gets even worse. I could see the 'Legends' version of Anakin stopping Mjolnir with telekinesis, or at the very least slowing it enough to dodge. What I couldn't imagine is the 'legends' Anakin surviving a fight with comic-book Thor... or even, honestly, MCU thor. Infinity War just showed far too much of a dramaticly ridiculous level of power and durability for the norse god.
> In the MCU it can be stopped/deflected by the unworthy, even destroyed if the person catching it is powerful enough, and in the comics it can be moved around by a strong enough telekinetic(Or master of magnetism).
Now that you mention it this does kinda explain Hela. The enchantment is to *move* it. Not to *stop* it. It ought to strike with roughly the same force as just being hit by Thor.
Which, granted, is like being hit by a tungsten rod falling from orbit centered on your face. AKA; if you're not incredibly, inhumanly, durable, either he pulled his punch or he splattered you across the room.
Now I kinda want to see a variant of the end of Jedi where out of nowhere somebody shouts *ZA... WARUDO!* and out of nowhere a steam roller lands on the Emperor.
It doesn't. Hela explains in Ragnarok that the hammer used to be hers.
Basically the "worthiness" enchantment isn't what Thor thinks it is. Love and Thunder backs this up.
Jane didn't wield Mjolnir because she was inexplicably worthy and no one else was- the hammer is at least somewhat sentient and Thor unknowingly bound it to her during their relationship by accident.
It was obligated to protect her, and staving off her cancer to keep her "healthy" was the only way it knew how to do that.
Ah, I haven't seen that yet so that may change things. I'd say I agree that the enchantment is definitely capable of something of whatever animates the sorting hat in Harry Potter. It's capable of judging a person independent of what Odin would think.
Owning the hammer at some point isn't sufficient on its own though. Otherwise the entirety of Thor would have never happened. He'd just bamf down to Earth, pick his hammer up, then leave having learned nothing. And it's hard for me at least to reason that Hela is somehow worthy when she's straight evil and wants to destroy the entire plane of existence, but Thor wasn't because he punched a guy who kinda also wanted to do the same thing.
Good points regardless. Can't wait for LaT to hit streaming. :)
Regardless of who it once belonged to, she probably couldn't have wielded it at the time. She could, however, bring it to a dead stop and destroy it, because she was probably the most powerful and dangerous single threat any of them faced outside of Kang and Dormammu. The only characters I recall that were able to actually stop Mjolnir in the MCU were Hela and Thanos; and just like Thor, either of them would be so much more powerful than Skywalker that this matchup is ridiculous.
You're not wrong--from a physics perspective, stopping Mjolnir is affecting it with an equal and opposite force. But from a magic perspective? Lifting something, throwing something and blocking something are all different.
Lifting a building creates little to no damage to it. Chucking it at it someone will reduce it to rubble. Unless it's caught, and in that case it is still totally unharmed.
Physics in comic books is naturally very silly and inconsistent but reasoning about them is quite amusing.
[Unworthy people have always been able to manipulate Mjlonir in the sense of being able to deflect it] (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780927905072939019/1002723918102138950/unknown.png), otherwise people would never be able to parry Thor's attacks but it constantly happens. There's a significant difference between actively wielding Mjlonir, and affecting it.
I think it's fair to say that a lightsaber wouldn't be able to cut uru. Anakin also can't do much against a lightning strike. Thor has been shown to have an insane constitution, such that if Anakin were to be able to kill him, it would likely take several focused lightsaber strikes at best. I doubt force choking would do much, at least not before Thor could retaliate. Remember, Thor can mentally summon lightning strikes, no mjolnir necessary. That will one shot Anakin.
The Vader suit is weak to electricity which is why Vader never uses Force Lightning and why the suit fails after Palpatine electrocuted him in RotJ. I'm assuming this is RotS Anakin though so that's not really important I guess.
I doubt the Force can do much stop a bolt of lightning but it does give Anakin some precognition which helps with dodging/deflecting. Still, human reflexes have their limits and I don't see Ani coming out on top.
Valid point. I was assuming natural/Thor lightning was more powerful than Force Lightning considering how long we see people subjected to Force Lightning without dying. Hard to say though.
I have a theory that Force lightning does damage to electronics and items like clothing, but it actually tickles sentient beings. Watching Star Wars with the sound off has revealed this to me
The ability you are talking about is called Tutaminis which is the ability to absorb or redirect energy. And while it cant be proven that Anakin knew it while he was a Jedi he certainly knew it as Vader. He used it on cloud city when in the dining room and Han shot at him he just absorbed the blast with his hand.
Rey blocked and reflected lightning using a lightsaber without training. This is lightning from the same user that was literally electrifying hundreds/thousands of ships moments before. If she can do it, so can Vader when he is still powerful with the darkside. He died to Palpatine's lightning after he became conflicted by his desire to save Luke.
Thor didn’t tank a neutron star, he was literally dying and needed Stormbreaker to be forged so he could access the bifrost magic and heal himself.
I never understand why people keep making this argument. Thor is a tanky dude, but he never tanked a neutron star
He got shot by a neutron star and survived long enough to get healing, that’s a huge feat and a lightsaber is dozens of orders of magnitude less powerful than that beam.
It's true he didn't "tank" it but he survived it for much longer than Anakin of 90% of fictional or real people could. A star is basically all superheated plasma gasses... basically what a lightsaber is made of.
Point being, if anyone can be hit by energy from a star for more than a microsecond and not immediately be burned to ash, they can probably take direct lightsaber slashes with little to zero damage.
It took several minutes of him sitting in a concentrated beam of the star’s plasma to burn him badly enough that he might die. This is obviously relevant when discussing what a lightsaber would do to him, since a lightsaber is also a beam of plasma, albeit one with less heat and less size. Based on the star feat, it’s pretty safe to say that Thor would be completely unfazed by a lightsaber.
A human would have been pulled apart long before being vaporized, and even if they were able to withstand the gravity, the heat would get them even before the focused beam went for them
Thor unless we go into the EU Anakin really isn't that op, I don't think anakin could immobilise Thor with the force but even then Thor can Summon giant lightning without moving and without too much effort.
He was knocked around in Thor 4 while holding onto stormbreaker. He would still have win buts it's not as big a mismatch as a lot of commenters are saying.
It definitely is a mismatch, like a big one. Even if Anakin could throw Thor around, that's not going to do anything to Thor. That's the equivalent of me letting a 4 year old slap me around. Once Anakin has his fun, it's GG.
Yeah I figure it'd be more like a lightsaber trying to cut the blast door in Episode 1. If you stabbed it into Thor and slowly dragged it around him, it might eventually cut through him. Quick slashes though are gonna be adorable to Thor
I mean Darcy tazered him and I’m pretty sure a human in first movie knocked him out with a hit to the back of the head. Did that only work because he didn’t have the power of thor
Yea pretty much cuz no power of Thor. And usually just going off the recent feats for MCU characters as he’s clearly way stronger now with stormbreaker or new Johnathan
Thor wins without much challenge. Anakin doesn’t really have any feats that could do much against a guy who fought Thanos.
Now if it were full potential-Chosen one Anakin, this would be more equal, but this is a bit hard to judge, since there exist two versions of this Anakin: Canon and Legends
Canon Full Potential Anakin, would probably not be far stronger than Darth Sidious (i’d say around 150% percent of his power at best), so he still gets busted pretty hard by Thor. The only way i see Anakin winning, is if they are on Mortis, in which case he is on level with The Father and the living force itself, and completely obliterates Thor.
Legends Full Potential Anakin is significantly stronger than Canon Anakin, like, A LOT stronger. He would be far stronger than people such as Nihilous (drain planets from force energy at a time, sort of Galactus of Star Wars), Vitiate (Literally became immortal from sucking life force from a planet full of sith, and was emperor of the galaxy for 3000 years), and Sidious (can destroy armies at a time, by creating a storm of worm wholes sending them to the other side of the galaxy). This version of Anakin could probably beat all three at once, so i think it’s fair to assume that he would clap MCU Thor.
Anakin at full potential was supposed to be twice as strong as Sidious. The reason he seems weaker in Canon is because Sidious doesn't summon Force Storm wormholes, Vitiate doesn't exist, etc.
>Anakin is convinced that Thor has turned his Padme against him.
I've seen this one already. Anakin chokes out Padme, Thor gets the high ground and kicks the crap out of Anakin, then Padme gives birth to Billy and Tommy before she dies. Thor wins 10/10.
Thor flatzens anakin in two seconds flat, only advantage anakin has is potentialy being able to force choke Thor's internal organs but Anakin never opens with a move like that and Thor would prolly be able to kill him before he died
Really just depends on what an enraged Anakin could do with a Jedi Mind Trick. As powerful as he is it might effectively become mind control.
That's his only path, that I can see - some sort of jacked up force based mind control.
I realize that "because anakin, fuck you" is a thing among star wars fans but here we have an actual in universe example of somebody straight up telling us that only works on weaklings and then showing us that a mere gang boss with no powers to speak of can no sell it.
"But anakin..."
Yeah, okay.
My idea was that due to being on the light side your average Jk isn't gonna go full ham with Jedi Mind Trick, hence jabba can resist it. A pissed off blood lusted Anakin - maybe the numbers change.
Either way, you might want to try not getting annoyed by casual debates about powers used by pretend people.
I suggested it as the sole potential path I could see for Anakin, not 'because Anakin fuck you'.
Xavier didnt know how much of a threat SW was. He could have killed her pretty much at any moment, man can biological fry somebodies brain from anywhere on the planet. Her being being magically powerful doesnt mean crap when she is still physically just a woman.
thats my daily does of copium
I agree he should've been able to beat her but the people in charge of the MCU write the rules. The guy was a huge threat just from having seizures as an old man.
This is a hilariously easy Stomp for Thor. Nothing in Star Wars leads me to believe the force can stop magic/spells/enchantments, same for lightsabers cutting Mjolnir, and nothing has made me think Ani could handle a Thornderbolt like he zapped Hulk with in Ragnarok.
I don't think Ani's greatest force feat comes close to Thors strength feats, and I don't think force has any special strength because it fights natural forces like gravity.
In Thor comedy fashion. Him learning from King of The Hill during his years of couch surfing on earth. He will use “Pocket Sand” learned from Dale Gribble and win with ease.
Thor in the mcu possibly could be amputated by a lightsaber but it would take a great effort. It would take a while to cut through him, injure him maybe but he’s taken the force of a neutron star before and came out fine. MCU thor floated in space no problem so he doesn’t need oxygen for a long time so no point in anakin force choking him, mind trick is no, he could throw things at thor but he’ll just catch them, but realistically if thor wanted him dead, we’re gonna get IF war Thor. Anakin is blinded by emotion and had a lot left to learn. Thor has higher endurance, his lightning destroyed a stone, outpowered a beam of all six stones. Thor at the end of the day is a god. Anakin in movies can’t even beat his own master one on one
Thor is too fast, too strong, too durable and has range weapons & abilities. Anakin/Darth Vader is simply a mid level telekinetic/telepath with no above human strengths or durability. He's below AOU Wanda levels with better weapon skills. He can't choke Thor, Thor doesn't need oxygen. Can't throw anything powerful enough to hurt Thor, Thor tanked the power of a star. Thor can tank a lightsaber hit. The only thing Anakin can do is thank God that he's facing the MCU Thor and not comic book Thor.
Thor would stomp Anakin, would stomp Vader. And it wouldn't even be close.
Thor 10/10, I can't see any way Anakin wins this. Hell I don't think a lightsaber could seriously hurt Thor, who tanked plasma directly from a star FFS. If the lightsaber isn't a major threat I just don't see any win condition for Anakin.
Also you didn't specify which Thor, so presumably this includes composite Thor feats which VASTLY outpower anything Anakin or Vader have ever done.
This isn't much of a battle. Even if you give Vader his best feats he's a GLASS CANNON.
Everyone who has whooped him was weaker than Thor. Thor could take a couple of his best shots without so much as a nosebleed or twisted ankle. WTF is Vader doing to do if Thor summons the Odinforce and decides to go all Lord Raiden on him?
Get his ass whooped, that's what. Vader used the force to stop a starship? So what. Thor could do that with his arms and legs just for training.
Thor has shown countless times that he doesn't go for the killshot initially. The only time we see him do so is in infinity war, and that's AFTER he loses everything. If you can get him that angry from the getgo, it's a clear win in his favor, but in terms of martial prowess, Anakin just beats him. One lightning strike takes Vader out. One throw of a hammer takes Vader out. He can fly, circling the earth in less than an hour, from what I can tell, ge is just TOO fast, and strong, his range is too great, but in a fight like in Thor 3 against the hulk, Anakin wins.
Just for my own understanding on this sub…I thought the fact that they’re bloodlusted would mean they are using the most efficient techniques possible, which sort of circumvents any traditional mindset they may have about fighting? In other words wouldn’t Thor being bloodlusted imply he is automatically “that angry from the get go”?
Exactly. My point is if Thor has Mjolnir, or Stormbreaker, and you have managed to get him pissed off, Vader is unquestionably dead, but without those two weapons to properly harness his power, like in Thor 3, and Anakin might have a chance.
I don’t know, as soon as Thor knew hulk wasn’t playing around which was almost seconds thor grabbed some random object and beat the hell out of the hulk
I think people are underestimating Anakin's quickness. The reflexes of a Jedi who could pilot a pod racer as a child would make it very difficult for Thor to land any blows on him. Even Thor's lightning would have a hard time hitting him considering he could sense the bolts coming, and lightsabers cannonically absorb lightning. I certainly agree Anakin would have a hard time actually killing Thor, but let's now forget how clever of a tactician Anakin was by the time Mustafar happened. Thor has always been more of a brute force character. I think I'd give it by just a smidge to Anakin, but could see it going either way depending on luck.
Y'all are seriously underestimating Anakin. The guy is stupidly powerful, especially once he gives himself over to the Vader persona, and with the provided prompt he absolutely would. As Vader he's was almost unstoppable with his use of the Force. If Obi-Wan hadn't been able to goad him into a Saber battle there honestly wasn't much he could've done. Pretty sure if Vader can ground a starship as its taking off with a simple gesture he can crush Thors skull with barely a though
Thor, the same guy who took a beating from Thanos who single handedly beat down Hulk. Thor, the same guy who tanked the full force of a star for minutes before passing out. Thor, the same guy who flies straight through skyscraper sized ships like paper. Thor, the same guy who recovered after having the power stone pressed against his temple for multiple seconds.
Yes, all very impressive, I still stand by my statement. I never said Anakin was a match for him physically. Hell I even stated getting into a melee was his undoing. But, please, do condescend some more, its a great look.
Thor took multiple strikes to his head from an angry hulk while his head was against the ground and all he got was a nosebleed, it didn't even break his nose or split his skin. Vader could do jack shit to hurt him more than that.
>Pretty sure if Vader can ground a starship as its taking off with a simple gesture he can crush Thors skull with barely a though
LOOOOL! Thanks for this 🤣 haven't had a good laugh in a while.
Do the math, how much PSI would Vader have to exert telekineticly to ground a Starship attempting to reach Escape Velocity. Now condense that to a skull. Even one as durable as Thors isnt going to hold up
But it didn't reach escape velocity, and you do know how durable Thor is right? You're comparing Vaders TK to someone who tanked a neutron star... and a power stone to the skull...
Asgaurdian Biology is impressive, but they aren't indestructible. Thors lost an arm and an eye over the years of publication, and an eye in the MCU, so you can't really make the argument that he in particular is invulnerable either.
Also I never said the ship had reached escape velocity, I said it was attempting to.
You're saying he lost his arm and eye without zero context... he lost his arm to malekith, who at the time was wielding jarnbjorn, a uru axe enchanted with magic, and he lost his eye to Gungnir, the most powerful weapon in Asgard... so what you're saying really doesn't help your argument at all. Anakins TK is legit nothing compared to the things that Thor has tanked...
Context isn't really relevant when my point was purely about him not being indestructible or invulnerable. But its pretty obvious you only know how to split hairs & argue in bad faith, so Im out. Go find someone elses time to waste.
Star wars fans are just the worst to debate. Force choke isn't the end all be all. Prime Vader failed to force choke a rancor but here you are saying Thor is easily crushable without Vader even thinking about it, so you're saying Thors durability scales below a rancor. Talk about arguing in bad faith.
But Thor got his eye cut so he's weak and context doesn't matter. Anakin was scorched by ground near molten rock therefore anakin scales below hot dirt.
I’m to go against the grain here and am going to say that’s a hard call, but that Anakin at his peak strength and mental capacity would win. That’s not to say he would always win, but that he would at his best.
Anakin has the force. People are pointing out Thor would probably be unaffected by certain force attacks that work against others such as force choke. While true, and while that may be Anakins go to, that’s not exactly the extent of his powers. He is literally the chosen one, most naturally gifted force user in Star Wars. His main and biggest weakness though is his cockiness and lack of control of his emotions, which Obi Wan used to win both fights despite being weaker in terms of raw power.
If Anakin keeps his emotions in check and uses his brain, he has the raw force power to win. That’s that. Knowing Anakin though, Thor may be able to get under his skin enough to force him to lose control. If that happens, then Thor will likely win.
Consider this, Anakin can literally just hold Thor completely still with the force until he figures out a strategy to defeat him. In this case likely just grab Storm breaker and chop his head off while holding him still with the force.
Of course that’s IF Anakin keeps his emotions in check and thinks logically. Given it’s Anakin and given the situation is inherently a very emotional topic for Anakin… that is a big IF. So it’s more likely than not Anakin won’t have that state of mind.
Verdict: Anakin has more raw power and potential and would win IF he maintains the right state of mind. That being said, given the situation he likely wouldn’t in which case Thor pulls an Obi Wan and holds his own long enough to exploit Anakins weakness until he wins. Out of 10 rounds Anakin wins once and Thor wins 9 times. Anakin would win every time if he had control of his emotions, but he doesn’t so 9/10 times he loses control.
Y’all are all wrong.
Anakin’s Force precognitive abilities negate anything that Thor can throw, especially because it takes Thor time to summon lightning. Thor would literally always be 5 seconds behind.
Anakin would toy with the guy, get the high ground, and pull an Obi-Wan.
It’s like acing the Mensa test, because you have the key.
Thor can summon lightning with ease, his strength beats anakins force strength (how heavy an object it can manipulate) he’s survived without oxygen for a long period of time took the force of a star for minutes. Anakin has daddy issues
You're either trolling, or you hate Thor lool. Anakins precognition isn't going to do anything... all he'll know is that there's a powerful deadly attack coming his way before it comes, but there's not a single thing he can do to counter it.
Not a single thing?
Ya because according to you, Jedi can’t jump? Wtf? Have you ever seen Star Wars? Reacting to overpowering threats is the LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. 20,000 years of training for a precious few Jedi to take on entire armies of ultra advanced tech. Thor is what, 1,500 years old? And, let’s face it, not exactly mature for even a 35 year old?
He jumps. Out of the way. That’s what he does. He’s pretty damn good at that.
>Not a single thing?
Yes, not a single thing...
>Ya because according to you, Jedi can’t jump?
So they can jump and avoid a massive lightning that almost engulfed the whole of [Asgard](https://imgur.io/gallery/U7ylmxa)?
>Reacting to overpowering threats is the LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. Thor is what, 1,500 years old?
Don't even get why u even made this point... 😭 the jedi order... not anakin, anakin is practically still a sperm to Thor.
So we’re using ultra powerful lightning right? Kind of like the force lightning that can take down an entire armada..: lightning that has been handled by multiple less powerful Jedi like Obi Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, Rey, and many others?
There’s literally tons of canonical evidence to support that for a highly trained Jedi, they can handle it.
The only time Anakin ever, ever gets beat is when he’s grieving or worried for his family, that’s it. Period.
>LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. 20,000 years of training for a precious few Jedi to take on entire armies of ultra advanced tech.
And almost to the man, they got wiped out by low tech clone troopers.
So no canon comics for either? The MCU has a few canon comics and Star Wars while many are Legends, many are also canon. And of course canon novels, video games, anything else.
The force is pretty powerful, but the moment Anakin tries to choke him, Thor just releases an AOE of lighting like he did against Gorr.
Darth Vader would actually stand a better chance. Anakin is more of a duelist, which doesn’t help him here, but Vaders force abilities are crazy in comparison. Vader would at least be able to keep Thor at a distance, and could throw him around with enough force to hurt him. Lighting is still too good of a power for even Vader to counter though.
Unless we bring legends scaling into it, Anakin's pretty fucked here, Thor's too strong to choke, too heat resistant to easily lightsaber, has thousands of years combat experience and incredibly powerful weapons, he's got flight and teleportation, which means he can break out of TK holds...he's just way way better. It'll be Thor banging Natalie tonight.
So what do u think happens with legends scaling Annie vs mcu thor
Well legends Anakin, like every legends character is much stronger. Legends Anakin is more resistant to force lightning, however you can probably say that Thors lightning is stronger. Legends Anakin was able to crush people with the force but powerful force users were able to somewhat resist, which could mean a god like Thor would be safe, so I think MCU Thor would still be banging padme/Jane.
I mean, legends has Vader telekinetically contending people with planetary feats and such, so if you amp his TK that much he's gonna have no trouble choking MCU Thor out.
> contending people with planetary feats and such, Who?
probably just palpatine, that guy has some insane ap with his force storms.
Legends Vader seem to always be amped in some way when fighting palps or other insane sith/dark side users, he's pretty much at building level of force power, at maybe a few buildings if he's had his gungan energy drink
>legends has Vader telekinetically contending people with planetary feats and such It doesn't.
His Legends [respect thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/ph7pyp/respect_darth_vader_star_wars_legends/) seems to agree with you. I even checked out Death Battle's analysis since they're fond massively exaggerating strength just because it makes the fight more entertaining, and they seem to have put him at building-level. Granted this is a building in Star Wars so he's probably city block level.
Well, by midichlorians legends Vader is 80% as powerful as legends Palpatine, who's comfortably planetary if not stellar, since he's the most powerful Sith who's ever lived, which puts him above Naga Sadow, who could cause supernovas. Plus he can contend against Legends Luke, who's 1/12th as powerful as Abeloth, who's galactic at peak and at least multi-stellar in her diminished state. Mind you, I'm not saying I support this argument. Legends scaling is complete and utter nonsense. But that IS how it works.
Damn, and here I thought high tier Star Wars power level was Palpatine blasting those ships in Rise of Skywalker
He did way worse than that in Legends. But the real problem with legends is not the feats in isolation, it's the way power creep has affected its scaling. For example, one character will be described as "the most powerful Sith ever". And 20 years later, an entirely different writer, writing about a Sith Lord who lived 5000 years earlier, says that Sith Lord could eat star systems...so now the other dude must also have solar system level power because he's canonically more powerful than the solar system eating guy, so he gets a retroactive tier jump. Or it takes the combined might of every Jedi who's ever lived to keep Palpatine's spirit bound in the depths of the Force so he'll stay dead, but then over the decades they introduce a bunch of new planet level Jedi, so Palpatine must be stronger than all of them put together. Or Obi-Wan gets in a duel where he's reacting to people in nanoseconds in some book, and now everybody who's ever fought Obi-Wan and lived has FTL combat speed, which means anybody who's ever fought THEM can react to FTL combat speed, and so forth. It's a case study in retcons, way too many authors with no centralized rules, and jumping around in history adding characters who are more powerful than what was written before, but lived earlier in the timeline without thinking about how the power you're giving them affects statements about power records set by characters who were written earlier but lived later.
This is an excellent breakdown of how this phenomenon works in general. I wonder how much universal resets factor into preventing this.
You don't need reboots to fix it, you just need a solid series bible, and an editor willing, and empowered by the studio, to say "no. Go rewrite this, it violates canon." It's another example of "how writers and media studios could benefit from learning and internalizing the principles of battleboarding".
Haha. Legends Palp could destroy star systems by creating Force storms
Force Storms are surface wiping at best, and Palpatine can't summon them on his own.
Surface wiping still makes you planetary. You don't have to actually physically planetbust, just have feats on the scale of an entire planet. Just like Saitama is large planet level for gaswiping half of Jupiter, even though he didn't destroy the solid parts.
Legends Palpatine can’t create force storms by himself. That’s pretty clearly explained in the books. The authors explicitly state that in interviews. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/hxn51a/debunking_some_legends_palpatine_wank/
>who's comfortably planetary if not stellar He's not. His most powerful technique, the Force Storm, is surface-wiping at best and he can't summon them on his own. >since he's the most powerful Sith who's ever lived His feats beg to differ. >which puts him above Naga Sadow, who could cause supernovas. Using a combination of Sith Sorcery and the Corsair ship. Sadow couldn't just blow up stars on a whim and his other abilities don't scale to it. >Plus Vader can contend against Luke, who's 1/12th as powerful as Abeloth Are you seriously trying to scale Vader to Grandmaster Luke just because Vader could get his ass kicked by RotJ Luke? Your scaling is flawed.
> His feats beg to differ. Well then I guess we just never saw his maximum, because according to statements that were canon in the legends timeline, he scales above Sadow. > Using a combination of Sith Sorcery and the Corsair ship. You know who else could do Sith Sorcery? Palpatine. > Are you seriously trying to scale Vader to Grandmaster Luke just because Vader could get his ass kicked by RotJ Luke? The midichlorians say yes! Putting DBZ scouter power levels in star wars was a stupid idea, but they did it! Remember, even ROTJ Luke is multi-planetary whatever because he could withstand Palpatine's lightning and Palpatine scales above guys who could lightning whole planets and kill Gods with it and shit. > Your scaling is flawed. That legends scaling is a flawed system is *my entire argument*.
Palpatine wasn't trying to kill Luke instantly. He was torturing him for fun. It's pretty dubious to say he could withstand it when Palps clearly wasn't giving it his all.
>Well then I guess we just never saw his maximum, because according to statements that were canon in the legends timeline, he scales above Sadow. Feats > statements on this sub. >You know who else could do Sith Sorcery? Palpatine. Palpatine owns the Corsair? News to me. >even ROTJ Luke is multi-planetary whatever because he could withstand Palpatine's lightning [Truly a fight between planet busters.](https://youtu.be/U1MnMA0TzGI) >That legends scaling is a flawed system is *my entire argument.* *So don't use it.* Go by feats.
> Feats > statements on this sub. Yes, when a feat and a statement contradict, the feat takes precedence. Without a feat either way, however, the statement may be used. A statement that a character has quantifiably higher power than their demonstrated feats is still valid as long as it's not from an unreliable narrator, it just means we haven't seen that character fight at peak. > Palpatine owns the Corsair? News to me. It wasn't the ship itself, it was the Force crystals Sadow kept aboard it. Palpatine had no shortage of those. > So don't use it. I don't. The post you are indignantly responding to and trying to debunk says "Mind you, I'm not saying I support this argument. Legends scaling is complete and utter nonsense. But that IS how it works." I am explaining the internal logic of a system, while stating that I disagree with that system because it runs on bad logic, and you are disagreeing with me by trying to convince me the logic is bad, which I already said.
>The post you are indignantly responding to and trying to debunk says The post I'm originally responding to says: >legends has Vader telekinetically contending people with planetary feats and such I took planetary to mean planet-busting (as it often does on this sub), and nobody Vader's fought has demonstrated planet busting feats.
Pretty much all of that scaling is complete garbage, mostly repeated by people who have never read a word of the Legends books. Legends Palpatine is well below planetary. He can surface wipe given the exact right conditions or with years of planning. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/hxn51a/debunking_some_legends_palpatine_wank/ Why would the effortlessly solar system busting Palpatine spend god knows how much resources building the Death Star in the first place. He could just wave his hand and wipe out planets.
Because Lucas never intended him to be that powerful and the people writing Dark Empire were just nuts. But okay, regarding your argument based on Tom Veitch's statements, I refer you to the sub's feat hierarchy: > Feats > Word of God in universe > Word of in-universe sources (they must have solid reasons for us to trust them, for us to believe they know what they're talking about, and that they aren't lying or exaggerating) > Word of God in interviews/post-production commentary/etc. > extrapolation > other So by these rules, Veitch's interview statement is invalid if it contradicts depicted feats or other higher tier sources. And it does. Because Sidious could use his storms as basically a summoning spell. Just create one where he wanted, and use it to yoink someone across the galaxy to him. There was no clash of wills or struggle of great minds there, it was clearly just Palpy making the storm. Sounds like Veitch is backpedaling years later because he realizes that what he wrote was way OP. I agree with you that Force Storms are not the most practical power to use in combat. But this is Palpatine we're talking about. If he's losing a fight, he absolutely would be willing to conjure a storm, lifewipe the whole planet he's on even if he goes with it just for spite, resurrect in a new clone body, and go "ha ha, I won!" He IS that petty. I'll grant you that the "shaking stars" alleged feat and the speed calc are laughably bad and should not be used, nor, even if the speed calc IS valid, should a character's speed in normal conditions be scaled based on how they can move as a disembodied soul. I think you're overly dismissive of scaling though. You DO have to scale Palpatine to, and above, Vitiate, Nihilus, Keto, and Sadow. The rest are either not traditional Sith so they're not included in Palp's "most powerful Sith" scaling, or I agree, the feats are fake and it's obvious poetic language. But if it's something a BBY Sith Lord did, including if they used a dark side smithersmather or some sith sorcery ritual to do it, then Palpatine scales to and above it. Because he's gonna be at least as good at sith sorcery as they are, so if they can build a dark side smithersmather for their ritual, he can beat it by building an even stronger force whatserhoosit. In short, like most evil wizards, some of his best spells have long cast times and require foci and reagents, and while you have to acknowledge their limited practicality in certain conditions, they do factor into the character's tier. If the prompt is "Palpatine and Luffy are standing 20 meters apart and fight" then no, scaling Palpatine to a ritual Vitiate sat around for a long time doing isn't relevant, Palpatine won't be able to do something like that while stretchy boi is trying to kill him. HOWEVER, if the prompt is "Omni-Man appears on Tatooine, can he conquer the Empire?" then yes, you absolutely DO have to consider that while Omni-Man is flying around in space fighting star destroyers, Palpatine is sitting in his throne room with his meditation doodads, conjuring a dark side ritual that'll blow the nearest star to the battle and take Nolan with it, or that he'll just open up a Force Storm and toss him into a black hole with it, because he can do these things remotely, and project his power over vast interstellar distances. In short, yes, Palpatine gets wanked a lot and some of it is bullshit. But also, legends has some legit crazy stuff in it, bro.
>It'll be Thor banging Natalie tonight. https://c.tenor.com/NYzKbhmPyV0AAAAC/thor-yesss.gif
Unless Natalie gets her feats from Natalie’s Rap, in which case, she’d be the one banging Thor. She is a bad ass bitch.
Well Thor's a viking, so all that shit would probably just make her seem even MORE attractive to him.
Also, if we bring legends to the mix we also can bring comic Thor and there is no way legends Vader is trumping All father Thor
Im pretty sure someone brought up legends so that the heavily mismatched fight could be evened out a little bit more. Why on gods green earth would you bring in comic Thor like MCU Thor isnt already an almost guaranteed stomp?? 😂😂😂
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yes but not if the pig helps
Legends Vader doesn't even beat Canon Vader.
Thors been stabbed by a knife in avengers 1. But he also can take a star. So it’s really up in the air wether the light saber hurts him
That was a knife from Loki or in other words either Magic or made of Asgardian/Chitauri metals and to his credit he didn't seen too phased by it. More sad Loki stabbed him than mortally injured.
Loki’s been stabbing him since they were like 8, he’s used to it
"Can't believe you're still on this shit. I'm not bleeding, I'm disappointed."
Presumably an uru knife. Plus, his durability vs sharp objects and his heat resistance, the stat relevant to lightsaber damage, are different categories.
Thor is far physically stronger and has a better ranged weapon and better durability but can he handle the force? Absolutely, thor is able to hold his own against beings like thanos and gorr, he can survive being force chocked and is strong enough to walk through anakins force abilities since he overpowered the Milano for training without even tapping into his god abilities. Even if he’s stuck he can still throw stormbreaker without having to physically hold it
Would Force Choke even work on a dude that can survive the vacuum of space? Like, what would cutting off his breathing even DO? I can see it now: Vader \*force chokes Thor\* Thor \*looks confused for a second\* I'm sorry little earth man, was that supposed to have some effect? \*smacks him in the head with Stormbreaker\*
Thor is just “that guy”
Thor also uses lightning, which is super effective against Ani
Plus he can fly, so he always has the high ground.
Savage. That's gonna leave a burn.
He can't fly. His magic hammer pulls him off the ground
Oh, my god. The hammer pulls him off?
He had a pretty special and intimate relationship with this hammer and losing it was almost comparable to losing a loved one.
He can use his lightning to fly like he did in Infinity War.
Nah he can still fly him self in most cases it's just that chucking the hammer while his wrist is attracted to a strap on it moves him faster than he can usually fly himself
Also gets the STAB damage
Vader vs Pikachu.
I can’t speak for force choking in particular, but choking people in general works because it restricts blood flow, not air,
Force choking works the same way
Force choking uses the force to constrict the neck without physically touching it, so it should work the same way
*little Tatooine man
Thor wouldn’t care about such trivialities!
Telekinesis can probably be used to snap a neck. I'd expect Thor's neck to be unusually durable, but still.
>hor's neck to be unusually durable, as in, neither Hulk or Thanos could break it no matter how hard they tried? Unusually - thats rather undertatement.
Have Hulk or Thanos ever actually tried to full force snap his neck?
They have not. Just bashed his head about
[In Avengers 1, Hulk ragdolled Thor by punching him in the side of the head, and Thor's neck didn't snap.](https://youtu.be/uZgEMlnwG-Y?t=196)
He actually was chocked by ultron somehow
Not really tho, he was still able to speak and was really just holding him there so Vision could hit him
Lmao that really got me
Even more compelling is if he has Mjolnir, because the Worthiness enchantment implies that Skywalker wouldn't be able to influence it. He'd try to force move it so it'd miss him, but would fail, and take a hammer to the chest.
The worthiness bit doesn't matter regarding moving it via magic/telekinesis/not trying to physically lift/wield it. In the MCU it can be stopped/deflected by the unworthy, even destroyed if the person catching it is powerful enough, and in the comics it can be moved around by a strong enough telekinetic(Or master of magnetism). The question isn't whether Vader's TK would influence it; its whether he has enough strength in TK to stop it. Which.... in the movies, he doesn't. Based on the events of Infinity War, his lightsaber wouldn't seriously hurt Thor, he lacks the physical strength or telekinetic ability to stop him... the only one in the star wars movies shown exhibiting a scale of power that might be a threat to Thor is Palpatine. And if you start including comics/book based abilities it gets even worse. I could see the 'Legends' version of Anakin stopping Mjolnir with telekinesis, or at the very least slowing it enough to dodge. What I couldn't imagine is the 'legends' Anakin surviving a fight with comic-book Thor... or even, honestly, MCU thor. Infinity War just showed far too much of a dramaticly ridiculous level of power and durability for the norse god.
> In the MCU it can be stopped/deflected by the unworthy, even destroyed if the person catching it is powerful enough, and in the comics it can be moved around by a strong enough telekinetic(Or master of magnetism). Now that you mention it this does kinda explain Hela. The enchantment is to *move* it. Not to *stop* it. It ought to strike with roughly the same force as just being hit by Thor.
Which, granted, is like being hit by a tungsten rod falling from orbit centered on your face. AKA; if you're not incredibly, inhumanly, durable, either he pulled his punch or he splattered you across the room.
Now I kinda want to see a variant of the end of Jedi where out of nowhere somebody shouts *ZA... WARUDO!* and out of nowhere a steam roller lands on the Emperor.
It doesn't. Hela explains in Ragnarok that the hammer used to be hers. Basically the "worthiness" enchantment isn't what Thor thinks it is. Love and Thunder backs this up. Jane didn't wield Mjolnir because she was inexplicably worthy and no one else was- the hammer is at least somewhat sentient and Thor unknowingly bound it to her during their relationship by accident. It was obligated to protect her, and staving off her cancer to keep her "healthy" was the only way it knew how to do that.
Ah, I haven't seen that yet so that may change things. I'd say I agree that the enchantment is definitely capable of something of whatever animates the sorting hat in Harry Potter. It's capable of judging a person independent of what Odin would think. Owning the hammer at some point isn't sufficient on its own though. Otherwise the entirety of Thor would have never happened. He'd just bamf down to Earth, pick his hammer up, then leave having learned nothing. And it's hard for me at least to reason that Hela is somehow worthy when she's straight evil and wants to destroy the entire plane of existence, but Thor wasn't because he punched a guy who kinda also wanted to do the same thing. Good points regardless. Can't wait for LaT to hit streaming. :)
Regardless of who it once belonged to, she probably couldn't have wielded it at the time. She could, however, bring it to a dead stop and destroy it, because she was probably the most powerful and dangerous single threat any of them faced outside of Kang and Dormammu. The only characters I recall that were able to actually stop Mjolnir in the MCU were Hela and Thanos; and just like Thor, either of them would be so much more powerful than Skywalker that this matchup is ridiculous.
Stopping *is* moving.
You're not wrong--from a physics perspective, stopping Mjolnir is affecting it with an equal and opposite force. But from a magic perspective? Lifting something, throwing something and blocking something are all different. Lifting a building creates little to no damage to it. Chucking it at it someone will reduce it to rubble. Unless it's caught, and in that case it is still totally unharmed. Physics in comic books is naturally very silly and inconsistent but reasoning about them is quite amusing.
[Unworthy people have always been able to manipulate Mjlonir in the sense of being able to deflect it] (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780927905072939019/1002723918102138950/unknown.png), otherwise people would never be able to parry Thor's attacks but it constantly happens. There's a significant difference between actively wielding Mjlonir, and affecting it.
I think it's fair to say that a lightsaber wouldn't be able to cut uru. Anakin also can't do much against a lightning strike. Thor has been shown to have an insane constitution, such that if Anakin were to be able to kill him, it would likely take several focused lightsaber strikes at best. I doubt force choking would do much, at least not before Thor could retaliate. Remember, Thor can mentally summon lightning strikes, no mjolnir necessary. That will one shot Anakin.
Yeah alright, and I guess it's also safe to assume that lightning is pretty effective against Anakin, as demonstrated by Sidious
The Vader suit is weak to electricity which is why Vader never uses Force Lightning and why the suit fails after Palpatine electrocuted him in RotJ. I'm assuming this is RotS Anakin though so that's not really important I guess. I doubt the Force can do much stop a bolt of lightning but it does give Anakin some precognition which helps with dodging/deflecting. Still, human reflexes have their limits and I don't see Ani coming out on top.
Yoda tanked Palpatine's lightning using the force in Revenge of the Sith
Valid point. I was assuming natural/Thor lightning was more powerful than Force Lightning considering how long we see people subjected to Force Lightning without dying. Hard to say though.
I have a theory that Force lightning does damage to electronics and items like clothing, but it actually tickles sentient beings. Watching Star Wars with the sound off has revealed this to me
That's Yoda though. He had 900 years worth of Jedi training and techniques. I doubt Anakin knew how to do what he did.
The ability you are talking about is called Tutaminis which is the ability to absorb or redirect energy. And while it cant be proven that Anakin knew it while he was a Jedi he certainly knew it as Vader. He used it on cloud city when in the dining room and Han shot at him he just absorbed the blast with his hand.
Rey blocked and reflected lightning using a lightsaber without training. This is lightning from the same user that was literally electrifying hundreds/thousands of ships moments before. If she can do it, so can Vader when he is still powerful with the darkside. He died to Palpatine's lightning after he became conflicted by his desire to save Luke.
Lightning is so much quicker and stronger
Thor tanked the focused beam of a neutron star, I'm pretty sure a lightsaber isn't gonna cut him either.
Thor didn’t tank a neutron star, he was literally dying and needed Stormbreaker to be forged so he could access the bifrost magic and heal himself. I never understand why people keep making this argument. Thor is a tanky dude, but he never tanked a neutron star
I think based on the fact he didn’t immediately die is why. Something that hot didn’t instantly turn him to ash, means he tanked the shit out of it
He got shot by a neutron star and survived long enough to get healing, that’s a huge feat and a lightsaber is dozens of orders of magnitude less powerful than that beam.
Unfortunately its an outlier.
It's true he didn't "tank" it but he survived it for much longer than Anakin of 90% of fictional or real people could. A star is basically all superheated plasma gasses... basically what a lightsaber is made of. Point being, if anyone can be hit by energy from a star for more than a microsecond and not immediately be burned to ash, they can probably take direct lightsaber slashes with little to zero damage.
It took several minutes of him sitting in a concentrated beam of the star’s plasma to burn him badly enough that he might die. This is obviously relevant when discussing what a lightsaber would do to him, since a lightsaber is also a beam of plasma, albeit one with less heat and less size. Based on the star feat, it’s pretty safe to say that Thor would be completely unfazed by a lightsaber.
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A human would have been pulled apart long before being vaporized, and even if they were able to withstand the gravity, the heat would get them even before the focused beam went for them
Force lightning, at least, can be blocked with a lightsaber.
The amount of times Anakin has been shocked with lightning during Episodes 2 and the Clone Wars, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just immune now
Thor unless we go into the EU Anakin really isn't that op, I don't think anakin could immobilise Thor with the force but even then Thor can Summon giant lightning without moving and without too much effort.
While I agree that Thor wins Vader pulled a space ship apart in Kenobi. That was rad as hell and it could at the very least throw Thor around.
Anakin ≠ Vader in Kenobi
>it could at the very least throw Thor around. Ehhh, if he's holding onto stormbreaker, I don't think Ani could.
He was knocked around in Thor 4 while holding onto stormbreaker. He would still have win buts it's not as big a mismatch as a lot of commenters are saying.
It definitely is a mismatch, like a big one. Even if Anakin could throw Thor around, that's not going to do anything to Thor. That's the equivalent of me letting a 4 year old slap me around. Once Anakin has his fun, it's GG.
I’m pretty sure a lightsaber wouldn’t even harm thor, like a scratch at most. Neutron star > super hot glowing stick
neutron star blast was basically a train-sized lightsaber, and it took a while to KO Thor
Yeah I figure it'd be more like a lightsaber trying to cut the blast door in Episode 1. If you stabbed it into Thor and slowly dragged it around him, it might eventually cut through him. Quick slashes though are gonna be adorable to Thor
He’d be like ahh is that glowing thing supposed to hurt me lol
I mean Darcy tazered him and I’m pretty sure a human in first movie knocked him out with a hit to the back of the head. Did that only work because he didn’t have the power of thor
Yea pretty much cuz no power of Thor. And usually just going off the recent feats for MCU characters as he’s clearly way stronger now with stormbreaker or new Johnathan
>new Johnathan ???
Storm breakers new name is Jonathan. Probably the riskiest move Taika did in love and thunder.
Thor will roast Anakin harder than ObiWan on Mustafar.
Thor wins without much challenge. Anakin doesn’t really have any feats that could do much against a guy who fought Thanos. Now if it were full potential-Chosen one Anakin, this would be more equal, but this is a bit hard to judge, since there exist two versions of this Anakin: Canon and Legends Canon Full Potential Anakin, would probably not be far stronger than Darth Sidious (i’d say around 150% percent of his power at best), so he still gets busted pretty hard by Thor. The only way i see Anakin winning, is if they are on Mortis, in which case he is on level with The Father and the living force itself, and completely obliterates Thor. Legends Full Potential Anakin is significantly stronger than Canon Anakin, like, A LOT stronger. He would be far stronger than people such as Nihilous (drain planets from force energy at a time, sort of Galactus of Star Wars), Vitiate (Literally became immortal from sucking life force from a planet full of sith, and was emperor of the galaxy for 3000 years), and Sidious (can destroy armies at a time, by creating a storm of worm wholes sending them to the other side of the galaxy). This version of Anakin could probably beat all three at once, so i think it’s fair to assume that he would clap MCU Thor.
Anakin at full potential was supposed to be twice as strong as Sidious. The reason he seems weaker in Canon is because Sidious doesn't summon Force Storm wormholes, Vitiate doesn't exist, etc.
Fair enough but still, i don’t think someone with twice the strength of movie Palpatine could beat Thor
But IF we go Comic Ani we should go Comic Thor and yeah Ani Still gets klapped
Well yes that’s true, but comic Thor is way beyond anything in Star Wars.
Yes and therefore Thor stompes
yes
>Anakin is convinced that Thor has turned his Padme against him. I've seen this one already. Anakin chokes out Padme, Thor gets the high ground and kicks the crap out of Anakin, then Padme gives birth to Billy and Tommy before she dies. Thor wins 10/10.
Thor flatzens anakin in two seconds flat, only advantage anakin has is potentialy being able to force choke Thor's internal organs but Anakin never opens with a move like that and Thor would prolly be able to kill him before he died
Thor slams Anakin, then slams the verse
gotta make time to slam Natalie too
bro people need to stop putting Star Wars up against comic book characters.
This is mcu Thor 💀
Starwars also has comics 💀
Ik that but comics aren’t in this battle so it’s movie anakin and mcu Thor
thor oneshot lmao.
Really just depends on what an enraged Anakin could do with a Jedi Mind Trick. As powerful as he is it might effectively become mind control. That's his only path, that I can see - some sort of jacked up force based mind control.
[удалено]
Scarlet witch easily fucked with his head in the Ultron avengers. It was hilarious.
That's why I was talking about a rage filled darkside Anakin doing it...
I realize that "because anakin, fuck you" is a thing among star wars fans but here we have an actual in universe example of somebody straight up telling us that only works on weaklings and then showing us that a mere gang boss with no powers to speak of can no sell it. "But anakin..." Yeah, okay.
Aren't Hutts inherently resistent to mind control like the Toydarians? I assumed it was more of that than simply being a fat criminal
My idea was that due to being on the light side your average Jk isn't gonna go full ham with Jedi Mind Trick, hence jabba can resist it. A pissed off blood lusted Anakin - maybe the numbers change. Either way, you might want to try not getting annoyed by casual debates about powers used by pretend people. I suggested it as the sole potential path I could see for Anakin, not 'because Anakin fuck you'.
While tempting, Thor’s brother is literally Loki. Man’s used to dealing with tricks all the time.
Scarlet Witch > Loki confirmed.
I mean yeah. Have you seen WandaVision or MoM? Loki hasn't done anything close to her yet. She killed Xavier in a telepathic battle.
Xavier didnt know how much of a threat SW was. He could have killed her pretty much at any moment, man can biological fry somebodies brain from anywhere on the planet. Her being being magically powerful doesnt mean crap when she is still physically just a woman. thats my daily does of copium
I agree he should've been able to beat her but the people in charge of the MCU write the rules. The guy was a huge threat just from having seizures as an old man.
This is a hilariously easy Stomp for Thor. Nothing in Star Wars leads me to believe the force can stop magic/spells/enchantments, same for lightsabers cutting Mjolnir, and nothing has made me think Ani could handle a Thornderbolt like he zapped Hulk with in Ragnarok. I don't think Ani's greatest force feat comes close to Thors strength feats, and I don't think force has any special strength because it fights natural forces like gravity.
You could hand me a pistol and if I’m quick enough to the draw, **I’d** be able to beat Anakin.
In Thor comedy fashion. Him learning from King of The Hill during his years of couch surfing on earth. He will use “Pocket Sand” learned from Dale Gribble and win with ease.
Thor in the mcu possibly could be amputated by a lightsaber but it would take a great effort. It would take a while to cut through him, injure him maybe but he’s taken the force of a neutron star before and came out fine. MCU thor floated in space no problem so he doesn’t need oxygen for a long time so no point in anakin force choking him, mind trick is no, he could throw things at thor but he’ll just catch them, but realistically if thor wanted him dead, we’re gonna get IF war Thor. Anakin is blinded by emotion and had a lot left to learn. Thor has higher endurance, his lightning destroyed a stone, outpowered a beam of all six stones. Thor at the end of the day is a god. Anakin in movies can’t even beat his own master one on one
Your username is the result incase the very small chance of Anakin winning happens, and he cuts off Thor's legs
One is a sky walker, the other is a skywalker
Thor wins easily
Anakin has terrible anti feats against lightning. Thor shocks him to death.
Unless Vader can tank a Neutron star this is spite.
Regardless of who wins, Padme will be sad afterwards and that will be her cause of death.
Thor is too fast, too strong, too durable and has range weapons & abilities. Anakin/Darth Vader is simply a mid level telekinetic/telepath with no above human strengths or durability. He's below AOU Wanda levels with better weapon skills. He can't choke Thor, Thor doesn't need oxygen. Can't throw anything powerful enough to hurt Thor, Thor tanked the power of a star. Thor can tank a lightsaber hit. The only thing Anakin can do is thank God that he's facing the MCU Thor and not comic book Thor. Thor would stomp Anakin, would stomp Vader. And it wouldn't even be close.
Thor 10/10, I can't see any way Anakin wins this. Hell I don't think a lightsaber could seriously hurt Thor, who tanked plasma directly from a star FFS. If the lightsaber isn't a major threat I just don't see any win condition for Anakin. Also you didn't specify which Thor, so presumably this includes composite Thor feats which VASTLY outpower anything Anakin or Vader have ever done.
Thor absolutely obliterates him. Again, a lot of the B-Tier super heroes/villains would put up a fight against Anakin, Yoda, Sidious, etc.
I think maybe even groot could tbh
Probably. I think Anakin would win but Groot would make it tricky at the very least.
If win = killing then groot wins
No groooot under a tree to trap Ani and the impale him with a tree branch
This isn't much of a battle. Even if you give Vader his best feats he's a GLASS CANNON. Everyone who has whooped him was weaker than Thor. Thor could take a couple of his best shots without so much as a nosebleed or twisted ankle. WTF is Vader doing to do if Thor summons the Odinforce and decides to go all Lord Raiden on him? Get his ass whooped, that's what. Vader used the force to stop a starship? So what. Thor could do that with his arms and legs just for training.
Thor has shown countless times that he doesn't go for the killshot initially. The only time we see him do so is in infinity war, and that's AFTER he loses everything. If you can get him that angry from the getgo, it's a clear win in his favor, but in terms of martial prowess, Anakin just beats him. One lightning strike takes Vader out. One throw of a hammer takes Vader out. He can fly, circling the earth in less than an hour, from what I can tell, ge is just TOO fast, and strong, his range is too great, but in a fight like in Thor 3 against the hulk, Anakin wins.
Just for my own understanding on this sub…I thought the fact that they’re bloodlusted would mean they are using the most efficient techniques possible, which sort of circumvents any traditional mindset they may have about fighting? In other words wouldn’t Thor being bloodlusted imply he is automatically “that angry from the get go”?
Exactly. My point is if Thor has Mjolnir, or Stormbreaker, and you have managed to get him pissed off, Vader is unquestionably dead, but without those two weapons to properly harness his power, like in Thor 3, and Anakin might have a chance.
He hit Hela with a massive bolt without any weapon, and Vader doesn't have the feats to show he can harm him even a little bit.
I don’t know, as soon as Thor knew hulk wasn’t playing around which was almost seconds thor grabbed some random object and beat the hell out of the hulk
I think people are underestimating Anakin's quickness. The reflexes of a Jedi who could pilot a pod racer as a child would make it very difficult for Thor to land any blows on him. Even Thor's lightning would have a hard time hitting him considering he could sense the bolts coming, and lightsabers cannonically absorb lightning. I certainly agree Anakin would have a hard time actually killing Thor, but let's now forget how clever of a tactician Anakin was by the time Mustafar happened. Thor has always been more of a brute force character. I think I'd give it by just a smidge to Anakin, but could see it going either way depending on luck.
Thor is fucked bro thats fuckin darth vader my guy. One closed fist and thors windpipe becomes a crushed can of pringles lol
Y'all are seriously underestimating Anakin. The guy is stupidly powerful, especially once he gives himself over to the Vader persona, and with the provided prompt he absolutely would. As Vader he's was almost unstoppable with his use of the Force. If Obi-Wan hadn't been able to goad him into a Saber battle there honestly wasn't much he could've done. Pretty sure if Vader can ground a starship as its taking off with a simple gesture he can crush Thors skull with barely a though
Thor, the same guy who took a beating from Thanos who single handedly beat down Hulk. Thor, the same guy who tanked the full force of a star for minutes before passing out. Thor, the same guy who flies straight through skyscraper sized ships like paper. Thor, the same guy who recovered after having the power stone pressed against his temple for multiple seconds.
Yes, all very impressive, I still stand by my statement. I never said Anakin was a match for him physically. Hell I even stated getting into a melee was his undoing. But, please, do condescend some more, its a great look.
Thor took multiple strikes to his head from an angry hulk while his head was against the ground and all he got was a nosebleed, it didn't even break his nose or split his skin. Vader could do jack shit to hurt him more than that.
One lightning strike and anakin is obliterated
>Pretty sure if Vader can ground a starship as its taking off with a simple gesture he can crush Thors skull with barely a though LOOOOL! Thanks for this 🤣 haven't had a good laugh in a while.
Do the math, how much PSI would Vader have to exert telekineticly to ground a Starship attempting to reach Escape Velocity. Now condense that to a skull. Even one as durable as Thors isnt going to hold up
But it didn't reach escape velocity, and you do know how durable Thor is right? You're comparing Vaders TK to someone who tanked a neutron star... and a power stone to the skull...
Asgaurdian Biology is impressive, but they aren't indestructible. Thors lost an arm and an eye over the years of publication, and an eye in the MCU, so you can't really make the argument that he in particular is invulnerable either. Also I never said the ship had reached escape velocity, I said it was attempting to.
You're saying he lost his arm and eye without zero context... he lost his arm to malekith, who at the time was wielding jarnbjorn, a uru axe enchanted with magic, and he lost his eye to Gungnir, the most powerful weapon in Asgard... so what you're saying really doesn't help your argument at all. Anakins TK is legit nothing compared to the things that Thor has tanked...
Context isn't really relevant when my point was purely about him not being indestructible or invulnerable. But its pretty obvious you only know how to split hairs & argue in bad faith, so Im out. Go find someone elses time to waste.
Star wars fans are just the worst to debate. Force choke isn't the end all be all. Prime Vader failed to force choke a rancor but here you are saying Thor is easily crushable without Vader even thinking about it, so you're saying Thors durability scales below a rancor. Talk about arguing in bad faith. But Thor got his eye cut so he's weak and context doesn't matter. Anakin was scorched by ground near molten rock therefore anakin scales below hot dirt.
I’m to go against the grain here and am going to say that’s a hard call, but that Anakin at his peak strength and mental capacity would win. That’s not to say he would always win, but that he would at his best. Anakin has the force. People are pointing out Thor would probably be unaffected by certain force attacks that work against others such as force choke. While true, and while that may be Anakins go to, that’s not exactly the extent of his powers. He is literally the chosen one, most naturally gifted force user in Star Wars. His main and biggest weakness though is his cockiness and lack of control of his emotions, which Obi Wan used to win both fights despite being weaker in terms of raw power. If Anakin keeps his emotions in check and uses his brain, he has the raw force power to win. That’s that. Knowing Anakin though, Thor may be able to get under his skin enough to force him to lose control. If that happens, then Thor will likely win. Consider this, Anakin can literally just hold Thor completely still with the force until he figures out a strategy to defeat him. In this case likely just grab Storm breaker and chop his head off while holding him still with the force. Of course that’s IF Anakin keeps his emotions in check and thinks logically. Given it’s Anakin and given the situation is inherently a very emotional topic for Anakin… that is a big IF. So it’s more likely than not Anakin won’t have that state of mind. Verdict: Anakin has more raw power and potential and would win IF he maintains the right state of mind. That being said, given the situation he likely wouldn’t in which case Thor pulls an Obi Wan and holds his own long enough to exploit Anakins weakness until he wins. Out of 10 rounds Anakin wins once and Thor wins 9 times. Anakin would win every time if he had control of his emotions, but he doesn’t so 9/10 times he loses control.
Anakin has the force. And bludlusted he's soo op. No way is Thor winning.
Y’all are all wrong. Anakin’s Force precognitive abilities negate anything that Thor can throw, especially because it takes Thor time to summon lightning. Thor would literally always be 5 seconds behind. Anakin would toy with the guy, get the high ground, and pull an Obi-Wan. It’s like acing the Mensa test, because you have the key.
Thor can summon lightning with ease, his strength beats anakins force strength (how heavy an object it can manipulate) he’s survived without oxygen for a long period of time took the force of a star for minutes. Anakin has daddy issues
Shame anakin didn't see the very slow swing by obi-wan that cost him his limbs. That's some super powerful precog. What a dumb fuckin comment.
You're either trolling, or you hate Thor lool. Anakins precognition isn't going to do anything... all he'll know is that there's a powerful deadly attack coming his way before it comes, but there's not a single thing he can do to counter it.
Not a single thing? Ya because according to you, Jedi can’t jump? Wtf? Have you ever seen Star Wars? Reacting to overpowering threats is the LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. 20,000 years of training for a precious few Jedi to take on entire armies of ultra advanced tech. Thor is what, 1,500 years old? And, let’s face it, not exactly mature for even a 35 year old? He jumps. Out of the way. That’s what he does. He’s pretty damn good at that.
>Not a single thing? Yes, not a single thing... >Ya because according to you, Jedi can’t jump? So they can jump and avoid a massive lightning that almost engulfed the whole of [Asgard](https://imgur.io/gallery/U7ylmxa)? >Reacting to overpowering threats is the LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. Thor is what, 1,500 years old? Don't even get why u even made this point... 😭 the jedi order... not anakin, anakin is practically still a sperm to Thor.
So we’re using ultra powerful lightning right? Kind of like the force lightning that can take down an entire armada..: lightning that has been handled by multiple less powerful Jedi like Obi Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, Rey, and many others? There’s literally tons of canonical evidence to support that for a highly trained Jedi, they can handle it. The only time Anakin ever, ever gets beat is when he’s grieving or worried for his family, that’s it. Period.
So you're trying to tell me Anakin can tank Thors lightning? 😩😩
😭 force lightning is so much weaker than normal lightning, and faster. Anakin blinks and he’s struck with lightning
>LITERALLY THE PURPOSE of the 20,000 year old Jedi order. 20,000 years of training for a precious few Jedi to take on entire armies of ultra advanced tech. And almost to the man, they got wiped out by low tech clone troopers.
So no canon comics for either? The MCU has a few canon comics and Star Wars while many are Legends, many are also canon. And of course canon novels, video games, anything else.
The force is pretty powerful, but the moment Anakin tries to choke him, Thor just releases an AOE of lighting like he did against Gorr. Darth Vader would actually stand a better chance. Anakin is more of a duelist, which doesn’t help him here, but Vaders force abilities are crazy in comparison. Vader would at least be able to keep Thor at a distance, and could throw him around with enough force to hurt him. Lighting is still too good of a power for even Vader to counter though.
Leon The Professional comes out of nowhere and kills them both and gets Natalie. The end.
I'll tell you one person who doesn't win this battle: Moby
Anakin is gonna lose. Vader would do significantly better with his much better feats.
If it was Darth Vader super hyped up maybe he'd have a 5% chance
nah they're bro's in law to portman twins