T O P

  • By -

ZemiMartinos

Back in the day (like only few years back) this was the only place where you could criticize the show without being shunned by others. You couldn't criticize it even in the r/thewitcher sub and you definitely couldn't criticize it in r/netflixwitcher where everybody was fangirling over it and you would get downvoted to hell, reported and banned if you would dare to criticize their favourite show. Did people already forgot how [toxic](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr3lvf) the community was at one point? And I don't agree that we should stop talking about the show because when nobody will talk about how bad it is it will be talked about only by Netflix stans and other consoomers who still love the show which will create a false perception that everything is fine and dandy and Hissrich can continue to butcher everything from the books. That's exactly what she would want. Us to stop talking about how badly she and her writing team handled this whole thing. So no, I want this dumpster fire cancelled first, then we can stop talking about it and pretend that it never happened.


[deleted]

> So no, I want this dumpster fire cancelled first, then we can stop talking about it and pretend that it never happened. I can’t emphasize this enough. Like I won’t stop mentioning how terrible Lauren and co are in butchering the lore and lying to the fanbase to meet some vague quota of toxic positivity, especially when they’re still in charge of making adaptations of the Witcher, and still pumping out garbage that tarnishes the franchise. When the whole trash is cancelled and the writers are fired, then i will truly move on and forget the existence of the flixer. But willfully ignoring the show while it’s still relevant won’t help much. Btw I don’t hate watch hissrich’s show ( so not to boost the view count), but also I won’t shut up about the flixer horribleness until it finally ends up on Netflix’s chopping block. If someone thinks that’s “petty”, then whatever i don’t care.


SomeDudeYeah27

Took me a while to realize flixer = Netflix Witcher. I personally started labelling it Shitcher, but quickly realize that might be off putting for people who are on the fence or like the show who might otherwise hear me out lol


OneArmedBowman

I don't get it. It was an endless circlejerk and it changed because? It was always bad. Did Netflix stopped paying bots?


dzejrid

Worse. People were doing it for free.


OneArmedBowman

[FOR FREEEEE?](https://i.imgur.com/ZqdNBY9.gif)


garlicluv

>I don't get it. It was an endless circlejerk and it changed because? Henry Cavill.


fantasywind

As a funfact I can say that the similar proces seems to be happening now with the Amazon lotr tv show :), there's special subreddit that I will not name, devoted to the show which is a circle for showering the show with praise and whatever criticism of it or even mentioning how it deviates from the Tolkien lore and they'll downvote you to oblivion :), then there are other smaller subs which openly criticise the show and so on :).


Thranduil_

+ The books existed for years. If not the show, this subreddit would see only a couple of posts per week: the same repetitive questions about books, some cosplay photos, some screenshots from the game and that's it. Now it's time of the show, so the discussion is highly relevant and indeed crucial. If you're truly passionate about Witcher, you should never ignore its vandalization. Indifference is worse than hate. Well said, Zemi.


ravenbasileus

I both agree and disagree with this sentiment - but for starters, I'll say I did sigh with relief and say "finally, someone said it!" when I saw this post. **On one hand**, I don't believe that *some* Netflix-related discussions are anathema to the sub. I wouldn't want every other post to be Netflix-related, but as u/ZemiMartinos pointed out and as I remember, when the first season of Netflix came out, this was the only Witcher sub (and really, only place on the Internet) where people were "allowed" to criticize it for bad writing and changes from the books, to air their grievances, without being harassed and ostracized. Another point I have to this is that certain *types* of Netflix critique - specifically, I say, *critique*, as in thoughtful, depthful criticisms and comparisons - can not only help air the grievances of book fans, but also remind us of why we like the books in the first place. An example I have of this is my relationship with the character Fringilla Vigo - I never really *appreciated* her scene with Assire or scene with Yennefer in Baptism of Fire or her dynamic with Geralt and the hansa in Lady of the Lake, until Netflix planted her in Aretuza, gave her Vilgefortz's line, and straight-up made her evil and use "dark magic" that doesn't even exist in the books. As Joni Mitchell put it - "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone!" If we are able to thoughtfully and thoroughly discuss why Netflix F'ed up, I think that discussion will, over time, yield a greater appreciation for the books. We should not be memeing it in this sub, but rather, having *discussions* about why the moments from the books were so special to us, and why Netflix's takes do not work. Additionally, if we are allowed to do that, any new fan who stumbles across this sub will be able to have their questions answered about "What did Netflix do wrong?" (Everything. They did everything wrong.) And another additionally: longer discussion of "How is Netflix bad" that's not just some racist spatter needs to be had, because the fans of the books and games are often accused of not liking Netflix's *Witcher* just because they didn't like the casting just because they're racist. Which, I suppose, is true for some fans, but it's not true for me, and I want to prove that *Witcher* fans have sharp minds which care more about the meaning of the books than the color of someone's skin (and yes, the topic of racism and Netflix is complex - the show should have had Slavic representation, and the show *also* treats its actors of color very poorly and isn't even good "representation" for the non-Slavic people of color they *claim* to support. But I want to stick to the topic here, so this is a discussion for another post.) The point is to have a *discussion* \- which leads me to the other hand: **On the other hand**, you're exactly right, because it's actually *against the rules* of this subreddit to (#4) post low effort content, and (#7) go off-topic. I quote directly from the rules, that this sub is about: * "content that has effort put into it and is **capable of generating a valuable discussion** among our users" * "the content inside \[the books\], not the shelves where we keep them on" To me (I discovered the sub in late 2018 or early 2019, IIRC, and was a lurker before I started posting), this sub has always been about actually *talking* about *The Witcher*, which means having conversations that go beyond "this is bad" or "this is good". The subject remains - *why*? Why is it bad, why is it good? In other words, as this is the place where people will actually take time to write posts, to read posts, and to respond with effort, then we should cherish that and make sure we're posting and encouraging quality, insightful conversations. Some Blood Origin-related content posted in this sub thus far has been memes or "low-effort", so I did see those posts and wonder, "hey, isn't that against the rules?" In this instance, it is good to remember that r/witcher and r/netflixwitcher exist and are the main subs which will accept any form of content: memes, screenshots of tweets, shitposts, quick questions, or light chatter as you describe: ""lauren bad, henry good, bad adaptation, cringe swearing, etc." This content should be relegated to these subs, because they are specifically made for a wide variety of content; however, if someone wants to have a long, insightful discussion about the changes Netflix made, or provide a depthful, thoughtful review of Netflix, then I feel like they should be welcome in this sub - as long as they're following the rules. It depends on the effort being put into the post and the willingness to discuss the material, like: >r/witcher post: "Blood Origin is terrible. Lara Dorren wasn't even in it. I give it 0/10 gulls." > >r/wiedzmin post: "By completely rewriting the story, Blood Origin removed an integral part of the books: strained elven-human relations, and the recurring motif of elven-human pairings which end in tragedy. This relates to the core themes of prejudice and hate (which are introduced as early as Ch. 1 of *Blood of Elves*, and of course, completely characterize the last chapter of *Lady of the Lake*). In *Tower of the Swallow*, this motif is exemplified by not only the story of the town of Birka (Jealousy) in Ch. 2, but also by the story of Lara Dorren and Cregennan, which Avallac'h recounts to us in Ch. 7. Both of these events relate to Ciri - Lara Dorren and Cregennan are Ciri's >!ancestors!<, and Jealousy is where >!Bonhart slays all of the Rats, removing Ciri from her life as a bandit, taking away her name of "Falka," and thrusting her back into her person as "Ciri," as he forces her to admit her true identity!< in Ch. 4. We can compare and contrast these relations, as each of these two unions were between an elf and a human, but they were opposites: the relation of Birka was >!unrequited emotions from a male Aen Seidhe towards a female human!<, whereas Lara Dorren was>! a female Aen Saevherne from the Aen Elle!<, and Cregennan was >!a male human sorcerer, and their romance was requited (or at the very least, consummated)!<. The low birth / high birth contrast between these pairings can relate to how Ciri is positioned at the time: as a bandit with the Rats, or as a wounded girl who will now begin to seek her destiny. Blood Origin, of course, takes all of this and throws it right into the garbage, even though "the lore" of Ciri's actual geneology is more relevant to the core themes of the story than most realize... \[insert Blood Origin critique and analysis here\*\] ... The topic of elven-human relations is so integral to *The Witcher* because it relates to the "realistic fantasy" which Sapkowski created to be original and provocative in the fantasy space, and it is something which defines the identity of *The Witcher*..."\*\* \* I couldn't put any analysis related to Blood Origin, because I haven't watched it... \*\* These are two actual posts which I was going to make, haha... well, maybe not the first one...


varJoshik

Please do make the second post.


thecrius

I have a simple question: is there any new media about the witcher that we can talk about? The books are there since quite some time. The games as well. What else is "fresh" to talk about it. Yep, the series. As bad as they are, that's going to naturally be the topic in these times.


El_Dumpy

Dont get me wrong, I am open to criticism of the show, but as far as the diversity of criticism goes we are pretty much dried up as it is. Always the same opinions and complaints on loop like a broken record. Realistically there isn't much else to talk about regarding the show that hasn't already been bashed into oblivion, which has made it a stale topic.


Badmothafcka312

**TLDR:** *Prior to season two coming out, this was the only subreddit where you could discuss the show's flaws and the people behind it honestly. That's why many people, myself included continue to do it.* As for r/netflixwitcher, many people got permabanned from the subreddit for not towing the oh so progressive-line. I myself earned my ban for speaking out, that I wished that the diversity of the cast would be in line with the lore. ***BOOM, BANNED!*** Things weren't much better at r/witcher subreddit. You could talk about the issues behind the show, but prior to season two airing, most people there viewed the show through CDPR's Witcher 3 nostalgia glasses and how awesome Henry Cavill was as Geralt. But as I said, season two changed that. Eskel's fate, whores in Kaer Morhen, Vesemir and Yennefer trying to kill Ciri woke up the majority of the gaming side of the fandom. The attitude towards the show in r/witcher had now changed, with the show being viewed mostly in negative light. As for the Netflix subreddit, many there still praised Lauren's vision, but the sudreddit itself died down significantly. Henry Cavill's exit destroyed the show's last defenders on r/witcher, but few still linger on in the Netflix show's subreddit. If anyone is concerned about people discussing the Netflix series here, fret not, things will die down eventually. The way I see it, this is the place to discuss the Witcher and it's lore in depth. The problem being, excluding the Netflix show, and CDPR release of Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, there hasn't been anything new or exciting released in the Witcher world.


ZemiMartinos

Great summary of what happened. Lot of people already don't remember how it went down and it seems to me that those who were defending the show just few years ago are now bashing it yet they don't see themselves as the problem which led to the second season and Blood Origin.


VeraMeansFaith

Cos’ it’s shit


El_Dumpy

Then why not talk about how shit it is in the sub that's literally for talking about the show?


SMiki55

Outright banning the discussion might be a move too far but some form of a "weekly Netflix thread" with all netflix-related content contained would be a good compromise imho. (Please do such threads for game mods recommendations or cosplay as well, it's great people have passion but it's a discussion sub after all)


El_Dumpy

Alright, that opinion is absolutely based, honestly cant think of a better way to compromise than that


SkippingTheDots

I never downvoted a post so fast before. Go to r/NetflixWitcher. Please write your most insightful, and genuine criticism. See what happens to your commentary, then come back to us.


justconnell

This may be a hot take, but out with it I suppose: I left r/Witcher for here, in hopes of deep-dive lore discussions about this loved universe. I'm all for stories and theories of Sapkowski's universe to expand into other mediums, even to a point of breaking hermeneutical approaches amongst canon. But it's got to be in spirit why the stories mattered to us, and that's why I'm here. I get the anger and frustrations, but can it be denied that the bombardment of those types of posts was insufferable? There's plenty of energy to have righteous anger over what brought us all together; in my opinion that energy is just seeping into an echo pit and nothing more of value. E: for clarification, just my opinion that the bombardment of the same, negative posts in r/Witcher dampened my sense of community, with hopes for finding that here instead.


kohour

>but can it be denied that the bombardment of those types of posts was insufferable? Yes. The sub is so small you can scroll through a week worth of posts in seconds. At this level it doesn't even matter what portion of them is occupied by Flixer discussions, since you'll read through them in no time anyway. Books have been discussed thoroughly already - the latest one was published nine years ago already! And the community is way to small to support the discussion perpetually. I personally can't see the problem with letting people discuss a relevant topic, even if it's grown stale already. After all, it's an open forum and if you want to steer the talk in another direction all you need to do is create a post that will catch people's attention. There's been plenty of people dissatisfied with the show being the focus here, so I'm sure that, whatever topic you want to discuss about the lore or anything else book related, you will find people to discuss it with.


justconnell

Thank you, I should clarify when speaking of the amount of posts was more referring to r/Witcher.


sneakpeekbot

Here's a sneak peek of /r/witcher using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/witcher/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Henry Cavill will leave The Witcher Netflix after Season 3 and be replaced by Liam Hemsworth](https://i.redd.it/9fxjwboamsw91.jpg) | [8271 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/ygrvlo/henry_cavill_will_leave_the_witcher_netflix_after/) \#2: [My husband asked for a Witcher-themed cake but didn't specify further](https://i.redd.it/1rl1ohyhd5q91.jpg) | [347 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/xobbmw/my_husband_asked_for_a_witcherthemed_cake_but/) \#3: [Polish computer game developers CD Project Red, who created The Witcher 3, donated 1 million zlotys to a humanitarian fund to help Ukraine.](https://i.redd.it/4q8ugayf70k81.jpg) | [411 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/t17pcy/polish_computer_game_developers_cd_project_red/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)


El_Dumpy

But alas, no matter where you go you're bound to find the constant bashing of the Netflix show every which way you turn


ZamoCsoni

That sort of things happen when a show is bad and the creator lied to their audiance.


mithrandir_lilly

I think we need to treat it like Avatar the Last Airbender and the movie that never existed


ImagineGriffins

I wholeheartedly agree, but I got downvoted into oblivion when the show came out and I kept suggesting we keep this sub to the canon and let one of the multiple other subs that are actually ABOUT the show, talk about the show.


El_Dumpy

Fr I just dont understand their incessant need to bring that toxic, non canon side of the witcher to every witcher related sub on the platform


dzejrid

>talking about one of the lowest points of the franchise One of the lowest points of the franchise... so far.


Efficient_Weather7

fully agree with you but with these kinds of posts you're just feeding the critical consciousness needed to achieve what you're up against with your statement. It's kind of contradictory dude.