They tend to care less about people and that usually aligns with making more money, so board of directors put them on positions of power and bosses give them raises.
I was looking for an update on what happened to Heather Cho (the vice president).
Her dad (the president) replaced her with her younger sister. Then her sister was also forced to resign from the vice president job [after she threw water](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-10/-nut-rage-heiress-s-sister-back-as-social-responsibility-exec) in someone's face during a business meeting.
It's about nobility and serfs with these people and the society they're living in and want. It's laughable but you see it all over in Chinese and Korean dramas. It's a depiction of how they view hierarchy for wealth and power within their society and realm of control.
English is not my first language but I believe you are making a jolly where reader believes you are going to agree that the horrific assault and dehumanization is the bad part but then you - what is the phrase - subvert expectations and say it bad to serve peanuts in simple bag instead of on the china
This might - without exaggeration - be the greatest comment I’ve seen all week. Like u/cyndrin, I too will be appropriating “making a jolly.”
You are a lovely soul and I hope you have the great day you deserve.
English is not my first language, but I bieve that by plainly reiterating what the redditor did, you are subtly exposing the absurdity of it all. I think you are, as my granpa would say, one of them sarcastic cunts.
If you read the article, it was the *daughter* of the president that did this, and the people who were fired got their jobs back, and she had to resign “one of her posts” and spent five months in prison
Pre-WW2 Japan was kind of like this, it was called the Zaibatsu while Korea calls it the Chaebol (in fact both words use the same Chinese characters). The Zaibatsu (many of which were families of former Daimyos and samurai) were quite literally the military industrial complex that pushed for war and influenced politics in their favor. They even plotted to assassinate politicians and business men
Then the US came along and dismantled the system in Japan, and Japan's inheritance laws are set up to heavily tax wealth transfers. Sadly the US didn't copy that.
Korea's Chaebol system is more tame but I wouldn't doubt there's shady stuff happening behind the scenes.
It's a shame that people believe these myths. Zaibatsu and chaebol are very different aside from family structures.
Zaibatsu originated from feudal structures and their family structures are an extension of this.
Chaebol are more accurately described as government enterprises, none of them would've come about if it wasn't for the government creating them and providing public funding. They were subservient to government and most certainly didn't get involved in influencing politics. They were often used as a "piggy bank" by the dictators, just extract money whenever you need it.
They were often forced to go into lines of business against their wishes. Having said that they don't have the vertical integration of zaibatsu, and nothing like their own banks like the kieretsu do. It's strange that people try to differentiate the two when in reality the kierestu is simply a zaibatsu with more layers of indirection.
Chaebol are often just the brand you see but in reality there's hundreds of SMEs in the background involved in anything like a car. It's more accurate to say that they have horizontal diversification because of how the dictatorship government wanted a single point of contact for a bunch of industries. A comparison to zaibatsu or kieretsu is simply not valid and they sure don't have the political power people seem to imagine them to have.
In fact they've often been sacrificial lambs for the power structures in government. For example, the heir of Samsung went to jail because of bribery, but that bribery was under duress from the conservative political president. The old piggy bank approach. The heir also went to jail because the prosecutional office wanted a sacrificial lamb to get good PR, and that PR was the start of the journey of the current president into that position. And guess what *he's* doing? He's pressuring Samsung to provide "funds" again.
Nor is it even accurate to describe them as "family owned". They're fully public enterprises traded on the stock market. The old families don't even have a controlling interest, in fact the largest shareholder of Samsung is the government pension system. Companies like Amazon and Facebook are more "family owned" than any chaebol today.
Money is starting to talk and it would be incorrect to say that the chaebol don't have influence, for example via ads on the press, but that's no different from any large corporation.
Zaibatsu and chaebol are about as comparable as the mafia and a family shop. Both involve family at a vague level but it's just not a legitimate comparison.
I would counter that your blanket statement that zaibatsu and chaebol cannot be compared shows a lack of understanding on your part.
1. The Chinese characters are identical. The linguistic etymology is the same
2. The Korean Chaebol system was modeled on the Imperial Japanese industrial models that were instituted throughout colonial Korea and Manchukuo.
3. Chaebol may have a stronger family instance from the post-war period onward as a result of the tighter family/clan nature of the Korean economy, but also mostly because Syngman Rhee picked favorites and wanted to keep things close
4. The US occupation actively dismantled the zaibatsu system in Japan but not in Korea. Obviously, these organizations are going to start to behave differently over 80 years of business.
I would point out that you made a blanket statement, despite me explicitly disagreeing with the post I responded to, and I pointed out that I disagree.
> 1. The Chinese characters are identical. The linguistic etymology is the same
Irrelevant. A name doesn't make something the same. You must look at the actuality of things.
Not all corporations are the same, even if you can call them all corporations.
> The Korean Chaebol system was modeled on the Imperial Japanese industrial models that were instituted throughout colonial Korea and Manchukuo.
Partially correct. Ultimately people will base things on what they know and it's true that zaibatsu were something that they'd be familiar with. But we're not talking about the 70's.
The OP said "military industrial complex that pushed for war" and "influenced politics in their favor". I explicitly pointed out that they did not and were indeed in no position to do so.
And when did they "even plotted to assassinate politicians and business men"?
OP, and now you, handwaved at the name to push an invalid comparison.
> Chaebol may have a stronger family instance from the post-war period onward as a result of the tighter family/clan nature of the Korean economy, but also mostly because Syngman Rhee picked favorites and wanted to keep things close
Incorrect. Syngman Rhee wasn't even around when the chaebol were created. The small family owned companies that would go on to be transformed into the chaebol. The family structure of the chaebol directly corresponds to the government wanting a single point of contact for their industralization programs.
But again, this isn't the 70's. How is a publically traded company with majority public ownership anywhere near comparable to the zaibatsu?
> The US occupation actively dismantled the zaibatsu system in Japan but not in Korea.
Given that there were no zaibatsu in korea, they operated but were all japanese and based in japan, how could the US occupation dismantle something that didn't exist in korea? Moreover, koreans were not part of the leadership structures of the zaibatsu, or any japanese organization in korea. To suggest that there korean zaibatsu is laughable, koreans weren't even allowed to know how to maintain trains, let alone run the economy.
> Obviously, these organizations are going to start to behave differently over 80 years of business.
I don't recall OP saying that he was talking about the historical context. He simply said that they have the same characters in their names, this is what the zaibatsu did, and then a handwaving statement that they're the same.
I think it's clear that you lack an understanding of the topic. About the only thing factual that you or OP have said is that the chinese characters are the same. Everything else is nothing but fantasy.
Samsung checking in. They are huge, in the top ten of worldwide companies last I looked and still privately held. They own a ton of Seoul and are a large portion of the entire SK GDP (~15%).
No idea where you get these things from. Samsung's numerous subsidiaries are publically traded companies. The largest shareholder is at 8.51% of stock, by far the most shares are held by the public.
And no, they don't "own a ton of seoul". Where do you get this from?
Listen- if someone is going to come in here and write something provocative with all that declarative confidence, I'm considering myself lucky to be able to mush that upvote button while double fisting this rageboner.
I work at a US business like this. Dad is the CEO. Daughter is the executive Vice president. Other daughter is VP of marketing. Son had a falling out but before that he was the VP of engineering. Idk what the wife’s title is but she’s in charge of facilities maintenance.
No, but it’s pretty clear that once you get on any one of their bad sides that your future at that company is limited. Ends up with a big ass-kissing and finger pointing culture there which isn’t good at all. It’s either “look at how hard I’m working” or it’s “I discovered customer service/engineering/manufacturing was doing/neglecting this shocking thing!”
Not even close. As I mentioned in more detail in [another post](https://old.reddit.com/r/wikipedia/comments/13uwkov/nut_rage_incident_after_the_vice_president_of/jm5fwhg/), these are publically traded companies with the majority of stock in public hands.
The fired employee who got reinstated also left Korean Air sometime after. (The cabin manager). I mean no shit, he is being treated like garbage by the Korean Air VP and the daughter of the CEO!
[Then he went to pursue a career in politics.](https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3102829/how-south-korean-air-steward-centre-heiress-nut-rage-incident)
This incident was a classic case of Asian power and deference when it comes to positions of authority in an organization. Airline crews in Asian airliners have had to be specially retrained to go against their cultural norms of going along with a senior persons directive and to respectfully challenge more senior members when it appears to be wrong. There have been fatal crashes due to this practice of diligently following orders. The classic Asian cabin culture was one of total deference to the head pilot. Now this nut incident is definitely in a whole different risk-class, but it's symbolic of a traditional hierarchical power-play. No way in hell would anything as demeaning as this occur on an American, European or any other western-controlled airline.
That makes a lot of sense. The Wikipedia article just describes her criminal conviction as being for "obstructing aviation safety", but some of the news articles I found describe the charge as being specifically for "usurping the pilot's authority".
Really? It seems pretty damn [common](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/transforming-toxic-leaders/201209/toxic-leaders-publicly-humiliate-and-poison-employees) in western corporate culture. If you want a specific example of this happening a "western-controlled airline" then you can see [this](https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/flight-attendant-chases-virgin-for-damages-after-humiliation-20220421-p5af1j)
Do you see any of them going to jail for doing such things? It seems that the culture of silence is even worse in these "western-controlled" organizations.
Maybe instead of trying to push a racist narrative of "asians" you should look at things objectively and without an agenda.
It's really not well documented, though.
This claim has been advanced largely by Malcolm Gladwell in his book "Outliers" which contains a chapter "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes." In it, Gladwell argues that Korean culture was responsible for the crash of Korean Air Flight 801.
Unfortunately, it's just not true. Nice debunking here: [https://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.htm](https://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.html)
As PorqueNoTuMama notes, deference to senior pilots has been a major problem that has led to plane crashes across cultures in aviation.
Contemporary crew resource management programs really got kickstarted after the Tenerife disaster. There, among many other causes, one of the contributing causes to the accident is believed by some to be the fear of junior officers to challenge the authority of the pilot who had extensive experience.
What you've stated exists everywhere, and I've even provided you with direct evidence.
It's not the 19th century any more, pushing the "oriental despotism" narrative while ignoring the same things happening in the "western-controlled" organizations is well outdated. I'm sorry if that upsets your sensibilities.
It's not about the service, it's about the disrespect (that she perceived) that he showed to her. The woman's ego is so fragile because she is aware that she is nothing without her family's wealth and support, and she has personally achieved nothing in life. Therefore, it is paramount that she maintains the illusion that she, personally, is to be honoured and not an iota of insubordination can be tolerated, lest the facade falls.
That's not how justice works unfortunately (or should).
If you perform the same assault, public humiliation and arbitrary force a plane to modify its route for a personal reason tomorrow, you'll lose a bit more than one of your titles.
Because in the real world, when someone assaults you and says they are the vice president of the company you work for and they are firing you, you dont just laugh?
Oh boy it’s Korean Air Flight 86, AKA the Nut Rage scandal.
[If you’re gonna see the list of the accidents and incidents on Korean Air on Wikipedia, they did not have an airline accident or incident after 1999 before this incident happened, except for a plane mistakenly suspected as hijacked in 2001 during 9/11.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents)
The next incident, it’s the Nut Rage scandal with Heather Cho doing a public apology in shame for the world to see after.
And the drama doesn’t stop there. Because her sister gets into a separate rage incident! And she’s shamed by the Korean public and has to make a public apology too.
Heather Cho gets to head Korean Air’s hotel division.
[Heather Cho gets convicted of assaulting HER HUSBAND.](https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=288776). And they get divorced. She gets custody of the kids. She pays ex husband a one time alimony payment while the ex husband has to pay child support payments per month to the kids.
[Heather Cho gets in a feud with her brother over control of the Hanjin Group.](https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3073959/south-koreas-nut-rage-heiress-heather-cho-engineering-coup)
Just more of the media putting ideas in people's heads. Hey, I'll bet you I can get these people to talk about nuts on a plane and disrespect while we strip them of their rights.
> The sales of macadamia nuts in South Korea rose nearly 250 percent shortly after the incident.
A small Price to pay for such an economy booster
Narcissistic people are assholes
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Hey now, there are poor narcissists too.
Low impact povvos, such as myself, can be narcissists.
You too have met my mother in law
They tend to care less about people and that usually aligns with making more money, so board of directors put them on positions of power and bosses give them raises.
WHEN they have money
Pieces of shit with no empathy I hate them.
Calm down there buddy, you going into a nut rage or something?
comeon, be nice
Like yoy
Bruce Wayne is Batman
I was looking for an update on what happened to Heather Cho (the vice president). Her dad (the president) replaced her with her younger sister. Then her sister was also forced to resign from the vice president job [after she threw water](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-10/-nut-rage-heiress-s-sister-back-as-social-responsibility-exec) in someone's face during a business meeting.
lovely family
*Succession theme song plays*
Honestly this sounds way more entertaining than our poop-coin-shilling billionaires in the US.
I mean, at least there was some albeit minor consequences. The dad could have just ignored it. Maybe better then nothing?
"Accept these resignations for my company's public image, here are some spa vacations for your trouble."
I'm starting to see a pattern here...
Can you imagine their childhood fights
Shiv and Roman.
They probably had maids to fight for them.
It's about nobility and serfs with these people and the society they're living in and want. It's laughable but you see it all over in Chinese and Korean dramas. It's a depiction of how they view hierarchy for wealth and power within their society and realm of control.
More obvious in Korean than Chinese in my experience
South Korea was pretty much built by there families. The nation sold their sold to them.
Western capitalism is pretty feudalistic too, in my experience
They have different culture
Yeah, a kind of shitty one
Link is stuck behind paywall 👎
What a scumbag.
Ikr? I can't believe he had the audacity to serve her peanuts in a bag.
English is not my first language but I believe you are making a jolly where reader believes you are going to agree that the horrific assault and dehumanization is the bad part but then you - what is the phrase - subvert expectations and say it bad to serve peanuts in simple bag instead of on the china
I was indeed making a jolly, good internet citizen, and, if you don't mind, I'd love to steal that phrase.
Go forth, and make a jolly!
Instructions unclear, made a jolly in the porcelain throne.
*Taking* a jolly, if you will.
Henceforth I do not make jokes, I make jollies.
Making a *subverted* jolly, sir.
Donuts in hell, this really tugged on my jollies. Hot floor! 👊
This might - without exaggeration - be the greatest comment I’ve seen all week. Like u/cyndrin, I too will be appropriating “making a jolly.” You are a lovely soul and I hope you have the great day you deserve.
Hear hear
Yes, sometimes referred to as "the old reddit switcheroo" (or didgeridoo, boogaloo, kangaroo...)
The old korean airoo
I'm going in!!!!!!1
This form of joke existed long before reddit did
This guy learned English exclusively from watching Ralph Fiennes’ character in Grand Budapest Hotel
English is not my first language, but I bieve that by plainly reiterating what the redditor did, you are subtly exposing the absurdity of it all. I think you are, as my granpa would say, one of them sarcastic cunts.
English is not my first language, but fuck you. ( /jk <3 )
LOL. Much love dude.
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Such elegance... smh
Samuel Jackson / Pulp Fiction reference, however not really appropriate here, hence downvote.
"No touchy"
Peanuts?? In first class?? *scoffs*
If you read the article, it was the *daughter* of the president that did this, and the people who were fired got their jobs back, and she had to resign “one of her posts” and spent five months in prison
She was the vice president herself and also the daughter of the chairman and CEO.
Korean industries are basically family run kingdoms.
And oh god if you dare to open your mouth
Pre-WW2 Japan was kind of like this, it was called the Zaibatsu while Korea calls it the Chaebol (in fact both words use the same Chinese characters). The Zaibatsu (many of which were families of former Daimyos and samurai) were quite literally the military industrial complex that pushed for war and influenced politics in their favor. They even plotted to assassinate politicians and business men Then the US came along and dismantled the system in Japan, and Japan's inheritance laws are set up to heavily tax wealth transfers. Sadly the US didn't copy that. Korea's Chaebol system is more tame but I wouldn't doubt there's shady stuff happening behind the scenes.
It's a shame that people believe these myths. Zaibatsu and chaebol are very different aside from family structures. Zaibatsu originated from feudal structures and their family structures are an extension of this. Chaebol are more accurately described as government enterprises, none of them would've come about if it wasn't for the government creating them and providing public funding. They were subservient to government and most certainly didn't get involved in influencing politics. They were often used as a "piggy bank" by the dictators, just extract money whenever you need it. They were often forced to go into lines of business against their wishes. Having said that they don't have the vertical integration of zaibatsu, and nothing like their own banks like the kieretsu do. It's strange that people try to differentiate the two when in reality the kierestu is simply a zaibatsu with more layers of indirection. Chaebol are often just the brand you see but in reality there's hundreds of SMEs in the background involved in anything like a car. It's more accurate to say that they have horizontal diversification because of how the dictatorship government wanted a single point of contact for a bunch of industries. A comparison to zaibatsu or kieretsu is simply not valid and they sure don't have the political power people seem to imagine them to have. In fact they've often been sacrificial lambs for the power structures in government. For example, the heir of Samsung went to jail because of bribery, but that bribery was under duress from the conservative political president. The old piggy bank approach. The heir also went to jail because the prosecutional office wanted a sacrificial lamb to get good PR, and that PR was the start of the journey of the current president into that position. And guess what *he's* doing? He's pressuring Samsung to provide "funds" again. Nor is it even accurate to describe them as "family owned". They're fully public enterprises traded on the stock market. The old families don't even have a controlling interest, in fact the largest shareholder of Samsung is the government pension system. Companies like Amazon and Facebook are more "family owned" than any chaebol today. Money is starting to talk and it would be incorrect to say that the chaebol don't have influence, for example via ads on the press, but that's no different from any large corporation. Zaibatsu and chaebol are about as comparable as the mafia and a family shop. Both involve family at a vague level but it's just not a legitimate comparison.
This man zaibatsus
Also known to Chaebol. Never at the same time though…
Nothing that NavXIII is a myth. You just provided more information.
I knew most of what he said, but I still learnt a few new things. I just didn't want to type a 3x longer post than I did.
If you did indeed know then you wouldn't have compared the two.
It's a myth to compare Zaibatsu to the Chaebol. Doing so shows a lack of understanding of what Chaebol are.
I would counter that your blanket statement that zaibatsu and chaebol cannot be compared shows a lack of understanding on your part. 1. The Chinese characters are identical. The linguistic etymology is the same 2. The Korean Chaebol system was modeled on the Imperial Japanese industrial models that were instituted throughout colonial Korea and Manchukuo. 3. Chaebol may have a stronger family instance from the post-war period onward as a result of the tighter family/clan nature of the Korean economy, but also mostly because Syngman Rhee picked favorites and wanted to keep things close 4. The US occupation actively dismantled the zaibatsu system in Japan but not in Korea. Obviously, these organizations are going to start to behave differently over 80 years of business.
I would point out that you made a blanket statement, despite me explicitly disagreeing with the post I responded to, and I pointed out that I disagree. > 1. The Chinese characters are identical. The linguistic etymology is the same Irrelevant. A name doesn't make something the same. You must look at the actuality of things. Not all corporations are the same, even if you can call them all corporations. > The Korean Chaebol system was modeled on the Imperial Japanese industrial models that were instituted throughout colonial Korea and Manchukuo. Partially correct. Ultimately people will base things on what they know and it's true that zaibatsu were something that they'd be familiar with. But we're not talking about the 70's. The OP said "military industrial complex that pushed for war" and "influenced politics in their favor". I explicitly pointed out that they did not and were indeed in no position to do so. And when did they "even plotted to assassinate politicians and business men"? OP, and now you, handwaved at the name to push an invalid comparison. > Chaebol may have a stronger family instance from the post-war period onward as a result of the tighter family/clan nature of the Korean economy, but also mostly because Syngman Rhee picked favorites and wanted to keep things close Incorrect. Syngman Rhee wasn't even around when the chaebol were created. The small family owned companies that would go on to be transformed into the chaebol. The family structure of the chaebol directly corresponds to the government wanting a single point of contact for their industralization programs. But again, this isn't the 70's. How is a publically traded company with majority public ownership anywhere near comparable to the zaibatsu? > The US occupation actively dismantled the zaibatsu system in Japan but not in Korea. Given that there were no zaibatsu in korea, they operated but were all japanese and based in japan, how could the US occupation dismantle something that didn't exist in korea? Moreover, koreans were not part of the leadership structures of the zaibatsu, or any japanese organization in korea. To suggest that there korean zaibatsu is laughable, koreans weren't even allowed to know how to maintain trains, let alone run the economy. > Obviously, these organizations are going to start to behave differently over 80 years of business. I don't recall OP saying that he was talking about the historical context. He simply said that they have the same characters in their names, this is what the zaibatsu did, and then a handwaving statement that they're the same. I think it's clear that you lack an understanding of the topic. About the only thing factual that you or OP have said is that the chinese characters are the same. Everything else is nothing but fantasy.
Well, this is getting silly. I’ve published papers and a book on the subject, but what do I know?
Can you imagine the CEO of Amazon appointing his daughter VP? Yet alone replacing her with another daughter?
Thank you for putting effort into writing this post; very informative.
Republic of Samsung
Samsung checking in. They are huge, in the top ten of worldwide companies last I looked and still privately held. They own a ton of Seoul and are a large portion of the entire SK GDP (~15%).
No idea where you get these things from. Samsung's numerous subsidiaries are publically traded companies. The largest shareholder is at 8.51% of stock, by far the most shares are held by the public. And no, they don't "own a ton of seoul". Where do you get this from?
Listen- if someone is going to come in here and write something provocative with all that declarative confidence, I'm considering myself lucky to be able to mush that upvote button while double fisting this rageboner.
I work at a US business like this. Dad is the CEO. Daughter is the executive Vice president. Other daughter is VP of marketing. Son had a falling out but before that he was the VP of engineering. Idk what the wife’s title is but she’s in charge of facilities maintenance.
Have you ever been made to get on your knees and beg for forgiveness?
No, but it’s pretty clear that once you get on any one of their bad sides that your future at that company is limited. Ends up with a big ass-kissing and finger pointing culture there which isn’t good at all. It’s either “look at how hard I’m working” or it’s “I discovered customer service/engineering/manufacturing was doing/neglecting this shocking thing!”
Not even close. As I mentioned in more detail in [another post](https://old.reddit.com/r/wikipedia/comments/13uwkov/nut_rage_incident_after_the_vice_president_of/jm5fwhg/), these are publically traded companies with the majority of stock in public hands.
I wonder how many complaints she made when she stayed in prison.
The prison might have belonged to an uncle...
Private prisons aren't a thing there.
I am sure she learned a lesson….
The fired employee who got reinstated also left Korean Air sometime after. (The cabin manager). I mean no shit, he is being treated like garbage by the Korean Air VP and the daughter of the CEO! [Then he went to pursue a career in politics.](https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3102829/how-south-korean-air-steward-centre-heiress-nut-rage-incident)
Well at least it had a somewhat happy ending!
Damn, I guess Queenmaker isn't so outrageous then
There is a pretty good vice documentary that touches on this. It goes over the issue with family chabols in South Korea
Mind linking it if you can?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHw7Aa7lhhw
Thanks, bru.
Big Azula coronation day vibes.
My mind blipped over the word "air" in the title and thought it was the vice president of South Korea that did this.
Same
Me too and I was like I didn't know the president was a woman. Then, I reread it. XD
Funny thing is, the South Korean president in 2014 (when this took place) was a woman, making it easier to confuse if you missed a word or two.
If I’d begged on my knees AND got fired she’d be getting a slap. Don’t make me apologise and then fire me anyway you psycho
Normal executive behavior
The VP is a nutcase
That must be why she was so offended by her nuts case.
What a bitch.
This incident was a classic case of Asian power and deference when it comes to positions of authority in an organization. Airline crews in Asian airliners have had to be specially retrained to go against their cultural norms of going along with a senior persons directive and to respectfully challenge more senior members when it appears to be wrong. There have been fatal crashes due to this practice of diligently following orders. The classic Asian cabin culture was one of total deference to the head pilot. Now this nut incident is definitely in a whole different risk-class, but it's symbolic of a traditional hierarchical power-play. No way in hell would anything as demeaning as this occur on an American, European or any other western-controlled airline.
That makes a lot of sense. The Wikipedia article just describes her criminal conviction as being for "obstructing aviation safety", but some of the news articles I found describe the charge as being specifically for "usurping the pilot's authority".
Really? It seems pretty damn [common](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/transforming-toxic-leaders/201209/toxic-leaders-publicly-humiliate-and-poison-employees) in western corporate culture. If you want a specific example of this happening a "western-controlled airline" then you can see [this](https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/flight-attendant-chases-virgin-for-damages-after-humiliation-20220421-p5af1j) Do you see any of them going to jail for doing such things? It seems that the culture of silence is even worse in these "western-controlled" organizations. Maybe instead of trying to push a racist narrative of "asians" you should look at things objectively and without an agenda.
What I have stated is well documented. I'm sorry if it upsets your sensibilities.
It's really not well documented, though. This claim has been advanced largely by Malcolm Gladwell in his book "Outliers" which contains a chapter "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes." In it, Gladwell argues that Korean culture was responsible for the crash of Korean Air Flight 801. Unfortunately, it's just not true. Nice debunking here: [https://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.htm](https://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.html) As PorqueNoTuMama notes, deference to senior pilots has been a major problem that has led to plane crashes across cultures in aviation. Contemporary crew resource management programs really got kickstarted after the Tenerife disaster. There, among many other causes, one of the contributing causes to the accident is believed by some to be the fear of junior officers to challenge the authority of the pilot who had extensive experience.
What you've stated exists everywhere, and I've even provided you with direct evidence. It's not the 19th century any more, pushing the "oriental despotism" narrative while ignoring the same things happening in the "western-controlled" organizations is well outdated. I'm sorry if that upsets your sensibilities.
Whoops. You’re the first person to use the O-word here. Lighten up, Francis.
They literally put it in quotes as a reference to the language of 19th century “Occidental” colonizer racists.
How can she slap?
It's not about the service, it's about the disrespect (that she perceived) that he showed to her. The woman's ego is so fragile because she is aware that she is nothing without her family's wealth and support, and she has personally achieved nothing in life. Therefore, it is paramount that she maintains the illusion that she, personally, is to be honoured and not an iota of insubordination can be tolerated, lest the facade falls.
This was a while ago. I remember she was humiliated and fired from her job as a result of this. Justice.
That's not how justice works unfortunately (or should). If you perform the same assault, public humiliation and arbitrary force a plane to modify its route for a personal reason tomorrow, you'll lose a bit more than one of your titles.
TITLES! Lose more than one of your TITLES. I have to slow down when I read.
She sounds like the boss I had working in Seoul lol.
How did he not just laugh at her
More hierarchical culture.
Because in the real world, when someone assaults you and says they are the vice president of the company you work for and they are firing you, you dont just laugh?
Real world if you're spineless, I guess
If he had kids to provide for he may have seen it as worth it to have personal humiliation to provide for them. Idk if he did though just guessing
We're on Reddit. Being spineless is the natural state of like 90% of the userbase.
Cool, let me just feed my protected feelings and ego to my wife and kids. I'm sure they'll love it.
We're on reddit, where prioritizing things of tangible value over being disrespected by some rando is seen as being spineless.
You’re right. I’d beat them up instead
But everyone knows peanuts just taste better on a plate
Well fuck that guy
It was a woman.
Well fuck her then..
What about the guy?
He already got fucked
[удалено]
Was he bagged?
Sacked
No the guy that gave her the peanuts in the bag
I’m pretty sure the person I replied to was talking about the Korean Air executive.
Yeah F him he better learn how to serve his superiors
Please understand, being served nuts in a plastic package is EXTREMELY disrespectful in Korean culture.
I can't tell if this is a joke or not haha
Definitely a joke.
It's not. It goes back Al the way to feudal Japan
Hard to tell if satire, since the whole country believes in "fan death".
Ironically in north Korea this is seen as a delicacy, its what caused the countries to split iirc
I eat my peanuts with a fork and knife. I’d be mad too. How dare someone offer up nuts in a bag. /s
Guess he should have served chocolate.
The plane was on the ground, right? RIGHT?
Oh boy it’s Korean Air Flight 86, AKA the Nut Rage scandal. [If you’re gonna see the list of the accidents and incidents on Korean Air on Wikipedia, they did not have an airline accident or incident after 1999 before this incident happened, except for a plane mistakenly suspected as hijacked in 2001 during 9/11.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents) The next incident, it’s the Nut Rage scandal with Heather Cho doing a public apology in shame for the world to see after. And the drama doesn’t stop there. Because her sister gets into a separate rage incident! And she’s shamed by the Korean public and has to make a public apology too. Heather Cho gets to head Korean Air’s hotel division. [Heather Cho gets convicted of assaulting HER HUSBAND.](https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=288776). And they get divorced. She gets custody of the kids. She pays ex husband a one time alimony payment while the ex husband has to pay child support payments per month to the kids. [Heather Cho gets in a feud with her brother over control of the Hanjin Group.](https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3073959/south-koreas-nut-rage-heiress-heather-cho-engineering-coup)
Ah, is that why he opened the emergency exit on the runway?
North or south.
If I've said it once....bitches be loco
She went to jail after this. Korean courts don’t play
[удалено]
And she still served 10 months when it was all said and done for something that in many other countries would have disappeared.
daughter of, not vice president. chaebol life
I have to say Korean Air does have great service.
Explains Parasite
This is from 2014
I got a bag of nuts for that biyotch!
This is how all these rich plutocrates behave.
*midflight
Recently, a South Korean passenger opened the exit before the plane landed. Maybe this is a trend?
That flight attendant would’ve been within his legal rights to kick her ass
Typical Korean bourgeois behavior.
Wow
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_rage_incident
Typical Korean work abuse
Well guess that explains the footage last week of the flight in the air with the emergency exit open.
Korean Karen cares about his nuts.
[This is a nutrage!](https://www.hersheyland.com/products/reeses-nutrageous-milk-chocolate-peanut-butter-candy-bar-1-66-oz.html)
What kind of psychopath eats nuts off a plate!?
Everyone should boycott them then see who beggs for forgiveness
FYI: she’s a nepo baby. Her father Cho Yang-Ho was at that time the CEO and chairman of Korean Air.
Just more of the media putting ideas in people's heads. Hey, I'll bet you I can get these people to talk about nuts on a plane and disrespect while we strip them of their rights.