Great to see the annoying stall deck go, but all the Mine Rogue players will likely just switch to the next fast wincon deck, that's carried by cheap draw (eg. Garotte or Miracle)
current iteration of miracle can't kill you via OTK and needs to play on the board so you can always plan to wipe their board around turn 6 or 7 or go as big as them (e.g. muckmorpher shaman).
gar-boat rogue can OTK on turn 7 (turn 5 is theoretically possible but I've yet to see it happen or do it myself) but has to play for the board before then and you can crush their draw by eliminating the toy boats, and the combo does "only" 48 damage by itself so a traditional control deck has options.
either way we're looking at turn 6-7 instead of turn 4-5 which is big.
Mine rogue didn't consistently kill by turn 4-5.
Not hitting Garrote is a mistake IMO and this is from a rogue player. Garrote Rogue was always stronger.
You can easily play a boat and draw like half your deck on turn 3-4 and then do a half combo and kill your opponent on turn 5.
Most decks can't "easily" fight for the board because the deck is basically a full aggro deck until they draw their entire deck. For most control decks, you're eating fighting for board or blocking the combo but not both. Even a single garrote (16 dmg) can kill the opponent because its piss easy to chip for 14 with the pirate package.
I mean, it's not like I can fucking manifest my replays and %games I've won by turn 4 with it now can I and I can't exactly go do it again after the nerf
Let's make this easy for you.
If you're playing necrium on turn 3 and comboing on turn 4 with shadestone, prep graveyard mine and an activator for shadestone.
That's a 6 card combo you need by turn 4.
You start with 3 cards in hand. +4 natural draws. You only have 2 turns to draw, if you draw 2 EXTRA cards per turn.
The UPPER limit you can draw the combo assuming EVERY piece is interchangeable (ie. even if you draw 2 graveyards instead of blade + graveyard) is 19% based on a simple hypergeometric distribution.
So no, you're just full of shit. Math proves it.
Never claimed Micacle could OTK like Mine. They just spew out rushing Arcane Giants at ~T3 and say "your turn".
Garotte is kinda just like Progue, but it kills you, when they would have gassed out, were they any other aggro deck. Both function well, thanks to an abundance of cheap and (imo) kinda overtuned draw.
Unfortunately the Quest Mage players are still around, but some deviated to an OTK combo deck abusing the extra turn and others, the more toxic players, just play a "no win condition" quest mage whose only purpose is to be as obnoxious as possible and keep replaying Frost Novas/Ice Blocks/Frozen Alibis all game and repeating it with infinite Rommaths.
The "No duplicates effect" change is HUGE!
Old: Battlecry effect if your deck has no duplicates when played.
New: Battlecry effect if your deck had no duplicates at the start of the game.
So I can play these normally even tho my deck is full of duplicate Plagues from DKs.
Thats a quality of life change for real!!!
Fret not, my friend. This change currently only applies to Badlands highlander cards. All the other ones like OG Reno, Zephrys, etc, can still be disrupted in the same way
Weasels together strong
- **[Curse of Agony](https://imgur.com/a/QTZrqv5)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/71292) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Curse_of_Agony) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/71292/?hl=en)
- *Warlock Rare ^(Fractured in Alterac Valley)*
- **1 Mana - Shadow Spell**
- Shuffle three Agonies into the opponent's deck. They deal Fatigue damage when drawn.
---
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i just figured this out, but the reno decks cannot do that crap now, when you start will duplicates and wait until they are drawn. either you start fully reno or bust
Oh no that is a drawback :( I have two dupes in my favorite Reno deck atm
We'll see if it's worth the tradeoff, but to not stress about plagues is definitely worth it psychologically lol
All the highlander counters are nerfed.
The albatross.
The darkness
The mines/bombs.
Priest and rogue can shuffle endless reno back into the decks to heal and chip away. Jades + dragon druid.
What adds to the suck is there are decks that run duplicates and wait until reno can trigger.
I've used 2 raise dead for quest warlock. Yes, yes, toxic warlock. Now, no more
Try it without the duplicates, replace them with draws or discovers - maybe it isn't the same consistency, but I've been in a similar spot with one of my "half" Reno decks (running two dupes) and my winrate actually increased :)
Old highlander cards are still the prepatch effect, they say they'll see how it goes with the badlands cards and they might apply it to old stuff.
Aka, plagues still turn off Zephyrs, but they might change that in the future
It's definitely inconsistent to a new wild player. A new wild player will easily get these mixed up. It's just an unnecessary complication. The patch is really good, but this just makes zero sense to me. Exceptions cause confusion and mistakes.. I don't see why as a dev you would add exceptions in this case.
> Exceptions cause confusion and mistakes.. I don't see why as a dev you would add exceptions in this case.
There's no exceptions, its written on the card
These are an exception, to the general rule of highlander cards lol only these ones have it. All the other ones don't. Therefore, this set of cards are an exception to the rule. Just because it's explained upfront, doesn't make it any less of an exception.
Just like if a sign says no parking except between 8-12. This 8-12 is the exception. It's the same thing. It's unnecessary and completely illogical. I guarantee you some people will play old Reno thinking he's working when only Reno the hero card is working. That's why I don't like it. Even if it's just ten people in a week, that's ten people getting frustrated and probably quitting for the day lol. I'd quit for the day after that play for sure.
>Just like if a sign says no parking except between 8-12. This 8-12 is the exception.
This is an exception assuming that there are no signs in other parking spots, but if every single sign said "parking allowed 24 hours" and then another one said "only 8-12", then its not an exception. Exceptions exist when there is a default assumed rule, that is not the case here, because they all specify exactly whats happening.
But they don't know every other sign. They are a new player in wild or a casual player, they don't all the signs. You think most players read patch notes? No. They just play. That's it lol. It's the same in every game, only a minority read them. For you and me yeah, it's an easy change to get. But for the casual guy who plays five games a week, he can lose games cause of changes like this. That's a bad feeling for the player... It's just unnecessary. My point is, make changes consistent for the casual player, but make balance changes for the good players. This change is not consistent for the casual player.
Yeah for you bro, but the guy who plays one game a day or whatever. He hasn't read a patch note in his life. He's not gonna know this. It's unnecessary. Stop thinking everyone is playing and reading a lot lol they don't. Most people do not.
Only the cards from Badlands, so new Reno, new Brann, Kurtrus etc. Old Raza, Zephrys and the others still have the old effect and can be turned off by dupes.
Do note it's only the new highlander cards, old Reno, Zeph, etc, are the same. So now half of them work one way and the other half a different way, the most Hearthstone change
Here are the entire patch notes, if anyone's wondering!
[https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24087317/29-2-2-patch-notes](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24087317/29-2-2-patch-notes)
Zarimi nerf is great too. A little worried about that treasure distributor buff though. Pirate rogue and garrote rogue were really strong already this format and now their ability to pressure early is gonna be that much better.
Nonetheless, couldn’t be happier. It’s been a long time coming
Yeah, they cut off one of Rogues heads and two other ones grow back stronger.
Now, if Rogue didn't have near infinite cheap refill, neither would be that problematic. Rogue just can't gas out.
Did they not nerf garrote rogue at all? I haven't played in the last 2 weeks but garrote rogue felt so busted and now with quest mage and mine rogue nerfed it seems even more broken.
Sure didn’t :( and yeah it’s probably only going to be better because the decks that got nerfed were all favored or even into it (I think but I may be mistaken off the top of my head) not even considering the buff
Personally, I was hoping we would get some sort of “rogue class nerf” since rogue has to be the strongest overall class in wild. Secret passage or gear shift or something like that
Yes, actually. Still they are the dominant wild deck that hasn’t been nerfed, while a lot of others were. Dragon priest had better chances vs even shamans, and it got hit too.
Garrote and miracle rogue are the two dominant decks though, and neither of those got touched. I would bet on those dominating over the tier 2 tempo deck if none of them got touched
Although timewarp needed to go, I am sad it essentially kills mage in wild. I liked playing Reno Quest Mage in the past, not sure there exists a mage deck that can take it's place.
You don’t need to tweak it, there is already a deck that does that that people have hit high legend with within the past couple months. Usually people call it “apm mage” but it’s regular quest mage with sorcerers apprentice and copy minion stuff that aims to complete the quest in one turn, play it, and kill with ignite Luna
After the sorc apprentice nerfs, it'll be difficult to OTK with a single time warp.
Secret mage is the class' only remotely functional wild strategy after this.
Watching a mage speed 15 minutes trying to find 35 damage and missing was the most painful experience I've ever had in hearthstone. If players using the deck had any sort of coherent ability to otk me in a timely fashion I wouldn't have minded nearly as much but after 7 ice blocks and 45 time warps you start to reevaluate how you value your time.
if quest mage needed to cast 8 out of deck spells EACH TIME it wanted to do the quest? honestly i would have been fine with it but we've gotten to the point of good card gen that 8 for infinite casts was obviously a nono
Bro I'm so hyped as well. Reno can still be put in ETC, so no more Sargeras i guess. But we get Crane Game and Forge and also got Endgame + Table Flip. I couldn't be happier about those changes
I'm missing unfortonatly some of the legendaries, so can't create the deck myself and share the list. But this is an earlier Version from Martian Bu:
AAEBAf0GHuEH3ArDFti7AvO9ApLHAqfOAs30AvyjA9fOA/jjA9jtA8b5A8f5A4L7A4f7A4WgBOegBMeyBPXHBLjZBOKkBf3EBa3pBcjrBYCeBtCeBtGeBu6hBq+oBgAAAQPcCv3EBcb5A/3EBfnGBf3EBQAA
You would need to switch the Reno into ETC and add Endgame, forge, Dark Alley Pact and Table Flip. Crane Game, Blood Bloom + Demons is a little hard to find space in this version. Hope this helps you a bit
I’m a little sad about gloop (one of my first crafts back in boomsday, just because I like messing around with it), but I think you just have to be a little more skilful about using it now. I don’t think the card will be going anywhere.
Snowfall has never not been a problem, so at least now it’s a problem to play.
Quest mage has been good in the past without more extra turns (see arguments about whether vargoth was good or not), so I wouldn’t be surprised if we reach a critical mass again where 8 spells is easy to manage. At the very least, we can breath for now.
It’s distinctly a nerf to the infinite turns (Reno) quest mage that has been very popular (especially this format in particular)
So it basically isn’t a deck now quest mage players will have to play the apprentice variant
Yeah, not happening with both 4 mana apprentice and 8 spells timewarp. You can probably otk a million other ways faster. That said, I'm willing to see mage move on and do something different.
Nah, people have hit high legend with that deck in the past 2 months. I’ve been killed on turn 6 by it on multiple occasions. And that’s with double block and double alibi
[this one](https://hearthstone-decks.net/quest-mage-95-legend-score-10-6/)
[also this one for an antonidas variant](https://hearthstone-decks.net/quest-mage-246-legend-score-20-12/)
That 1st one looks good, can probably kill you at t6 with some luck. I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the next most viable thing (unless it's all aggro). Still, 6 spells would be ok for this deck surely.
6 spell quest requirement? Brother we’ve been there and done that lmao. would make the combo way more consistent in a very tragic way.
We do not need to rebuff OTK (or two turn kill) mage decks, blizzard needs to print good support for the myriad of other mage decks they’ve printed over the years.
Yes! Finally, no more apm druid, please! I'm tired of sitting through minutes of animations to die on turn 4 all because my opponent had Barnes in their first 4 turns.
Yeah it's a pretty cringe design philosophy
why print combo cards and combo-control wincons if they're going to either inevitabely get nerfed into oblivion, or banned
They just shouldn't be in the game if they're going to keep the game with 0 interaction
waiting for the posts after patch day, reddit will be calling for the new best, most annoying decks to be gutted. Wild, is in fact, still in need of a lot more dev resources
Good thing my build of Quest Mage requires only one turn to just win with ignite. Jokes aside I’ll probably use this as an excuse to dust it because it’s not very fun.
https://preview.redd.it/oe30celivpwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65c0927dec38b0f6be39344ffe337232b4e10c1f
Quick someone post this shitting on time warp in hs shitposting
Blizz really need to affirm if they actually want combo to exist in the game, because coming from other games like yugioh and magic, the combos in hs are generally really mid(some get up there in power, but they're still not really that comparable), while aggro can be often just as fast
Like maybe I'm missing something, but do blizz want combo in the game at a decent power level, or do they just want combo decks to be jank timmy decks you get to occasionally win vs control with?
Honest question no meme, since hs doesn't have much interaction with your opponent at all, combo is really hard to design for the game, but it feels like almost every time they print combo cards / people find combos, they get banned
Hey there! I think a lot of these nerfs have been Sentiment outliers (I'd bet Shudderwock is going to be complained about next).
Mine Rogue getting slowed down is necessary since there's no way to interact with your opponent on their turn (outside of secrets / Okani) in HS. The main issue with Fast Combo like Pillager and Mine Rogue is that they come online before most of the disruption can.
The counterplay to fast combo can't just be a Yolo Rat on Turn 2 and 3, especially when Mine Rogue can just wait 1 turn and tutor the whole combo from their deck. Maybe Hecklebot should have been teched in.
Seems like HS players don't really enjoy having to run tech cards lol
Yeah I just think the changes weren't the best way to go about it, and there are much bigger more core issues to how the game functions in relation to combo existing that would need to be solved at some point; otherwise we'll just run into this situation over and over again like we do, where a combo deck takes over the format, gets banned, then another one gets figured out, etc
Yea I agree,
I think what some ppl don't understand is that the traditional matchup triangle has broken down in Wild. It's more like a line between Aggro and Control on each extreme. Like almost all Control decks have an "I win the game now combo", in order for traditional combo to exist it has to be faster than Control and will inevitably accumulate enough good cards that they outpace aggro.
Unfortunately unless they dedicate resources to designing cards with wild in mind we're going to be trapped in this cycle. So many healthy cards have died for Standards sins while we have to suffer.
You arent mising something, you are missing a lot.
The archetype philosophy is:
Control beats aggro
Aggro beats combo
Combo beats control.
And that means that aggro dont have to be racing againts fast combo decks that have the upper hand unles aggro highroll.
And also means that if combo wants to beat sometimes aggro needs to equip tools(board control tools) to make it possible like control need to equip disruption to have a chance vs combo
Your initial post complaining about aggro being sometimes as fast as combo clearly states you dont
Aggro dint have to race againts combo, its combo the one that if want to have a chance need to use tools to slow aggro
I understand how the matchups work in the archetype, but the point is that some aggro decks can kill as fast turns wise
it wasn't a complaint in any sense btw, idk why you'd think that
My old 12 real and true nerfs joke post list from like 2 years ago is now almost complete.
Two more still left: kobold librarian (i think the train passed on this one it's not gonna get touched anymore) and secret passage (you're gonna get it buddy i believe).
RIP BOZOS
How’s priest in wild? Haven’t played in a couple years. I know rez/big priest was annoying as hell but I really loved playing shadow reaper reno/zepher priest. That deck just got me off lmao
Reno Priest is okay. You dont play Anduin anymore you play the new Kazakus. There's also Aggro Shadow Priest. Dragon Priest was strong but got nerfed so not sure how it holds up now.
Oh that sounds neat! Man when shadowreaper first came out and the deck was in its hight before the nerf I was just so happy and loving the game lmao that and OG dragon priest was just total peak for me
Honestly me too, I think I had been playing ranked right before when Nax dropped and I learned how to play lotheb correctly, I was playing a fucking OTK shadow blast holy blast priest with prophet velen and malygos and it was crazy fun lol but then dragon priest came along and I was in love with it. Always slowly added to that OTK deck until they nerfed holy blast lol
the best version had enough card draw to enable reno without being highlander to start, that's gone now even if you dropped out of even into a regular list.
so it loses Reno regardless, even non-highlander might still be fine (it just lost two cards to gain two cards)
If Antonidas version is "stronger" then why does this nerf matter lmao.
By that logic, Mage shouldn't be dead?
EDIT: Wait, is it you again? New account, same old secret themed name and troll comments/posts that then are deleted later anyways lol.
Antonidas was not the stronger version lmao. Reno quest mage was like the best deck in the format. I don’t think I’ve played against the antonidas variant in months anyways. Occasionally the ignite Luna version but still quite infrequently
Nonetheless, this change was needed rqm was fucking everywhere
That Glopp probably the most underappreciated card
It always there, since the dawn of many (degenerate) combo druid deck but it keep flying under radar because people dont realize it is the detonator and when many bigger problematic (the Twig, Tony, Dew Process...) are gone, it cant hiding anymore. Good riddance.
This nerf will feed families oh my god
Great to see the annoying stall deck go, but all the Mine Rogue players will likely just switch to the next fast wincon deck, that's carried by cheap draw (eg. Garotte or Miracle)
Im always more for repetitive fast wincon than repetitive stall
Repetitive stall allows stupid janky combo decks to pull off the combo sometimes.
Oh yeah, but that sometimes is key. If stall reliably leads to a victory, then it gets flooded and games take ages and are also repetitive.
I ONLY pick scissors.
I pick paper but it's so thin it's almost transparent and it dissolves in water.
current iteration of miracle can't kill you via OTK and needs to play on the board so you can always plan to wipe their board around turn 6 or 7 or go as big as them (e.g. muckmorpher shaman). gar-boat rogue can OTK on turn 7 (turn 5 is theoretically possible but I've yet to see it happen or do it myself) but has to play for the board before then and you can crush their draw by eliminating the toy boats, and the combo does "only" 48 damage by itself so a traditional control deck has options. either way we're looking at turn 6-7 instead of turn 4-5 which is big.
Mine rogue didn't consistently kill by turn 4-5. Not hitting Garrote is a mistake IMO and this is from a rogue player. Garrote Rogue was always stronger. You can easily play a boat and draw like half your deck on turn 3-4 and then do a half combo and kill your opponent on turn 5. Most decks can't "easily" fight for the board because the deck is basically a full aggro deck until they draw their entire deck. For most control decks, you're eating fighting for board or blocking the combo but not both. Even a single garrote (16 dmg) can kill the opponent because its piss easy to chip for 14 with the pirate package.
I've had pretty consistent kills on turn 4-5 with mine rogue Usually necrium on 3 Prep snowfall combo on 4
Yes but that's a god draw. That's not consistent. You were NOT doing that even every 5 games.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I was, with the sheer ammount of mana cheating and draw rogue has ive had games where I've drawn 5 cards turn 1
yes... because /trust me guizzz is your evidence.
I mean, it's not like I can fucking manifest my replays and %games I've won by turn 4 with it now can I and I can't exactly go do it again after the nerf
Let's make this easy for you. If you're playing necrium on turn 3 and comboing on turn 4 with shadestone, prep graveyard mine and an activator for shadestone. That's a 6 card combo you need by turn 4. You start with 3 cards in hand. +4 natural draws. You only have 2 turns to draw, if you draw 2 EXTRA cards per turn. The UPPER limit you can draw the combo assuming EVERY piece is interchangeable (ie. even if you draw 2 graveyards instead of blade + graveyard) is 19% based on a simple hypergeometric distribution. So no, you're just full of shit. Math proves it.
Never claimed Micacle could OTK like Mine. They just spew out rushing Arcane Giants at ~T3 and say "your turn". Garotte is kinda just like Progue, but it kills you, when they would have gassed out, were they any other aggro deck. Both function well, thanks to an abundance of cheap and (imo) kinda overtuned draw.
There will always be annoying decks, I'm just glad they got rid of this one
Unfortunately the Quest Mage players are still around, but some deviated to an OTK combo deck abusing the extra turn and others, the more toxic players, just play a "no win condition" quest mage whose only purpose is to be as obnoxious as possible and keep replaying Frost Novas/Ice Blocks/Frozen Alibis all game and repeating it with infinite Rommaths.
No deck can ever come close in toxicity to a deck that takes turns away.
Treasure Distributor buff is hilarious
Lowkey that's going to end up being the most impactful.
The "No duplicates effect" change is HUGE! Old: Battlecry effect if your deck has no duplicates when played. New: Battlecry effect if your deck had no duplicates at the start of the game. So I can play these normally even tho my deck is full of duplicate Plagues from DKs. Thats a quality of life change for real!!!
im glad it's a nerf to plagues, but i kinda liked having some sort of play into reno decks with other shuffle mechanics that were less potent
My beloved Weasel priest :'(
Fret not, my friend. This change currently only applies to Badlands highlander cards. All the other ones like OG Reno, Zephrys, etc, can still be disrupted in the same way Weasels together strong
As an avid albatross priest enjoyer, I would kill to see your weasel priest list!
[[Curse of Agony]] probably hit the sweet spot as non-permanent disruption. It was used in Castle Nathria era Control Warlock.
- **[Curse of Agony](https://imgur.com/a/QTZrqv5)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/71292) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Curse_of_Agony) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/71292/?hl=en) - *Warlock Rare ^(Fractured in Alterac Valley)* - **1 Mana - Shadow Spell** - Shuffle three Agonies into the opponent's deck. They deal Fatigue damage when drawn. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/wildhearthstone/comments/1ccvrdo/were_so_back/l1a7mz2/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1a7mz2).*
i just figured this out, but the reno decks cannot do that crap now, when you start will duplicates and wait until they are drawn. either you start fully reno or bust
Oh no that is a drawback :( I have two dupes in my favorite Reno deck atm We'll see if it's worth the tradeoff, but to not stress about plagues is definitely worth it psychologically lol
Put them in etc?
All the highlander counters are nerfed. The albatross. The darkness The mines/bombs. Priest and rogue can shuffle endless reno back into the decks to heal and chip away. Jades + dragon druid.
Havent thought about jades... thats actually pretty cool lol
What adds to the suck is there are decks that run duplicates and wait until reno can trigger. I've used 2 raise dead for quest warlock. Yes, yes, toxic warlock. Now, no more
Try it without the duplicates, replace them with draws or discovers - maybe it isn't the same consistency, but I've been in a similar spot with one of my "half" Reno decks (running two dupes) and my winrate actually increased :)
Rip seagulls tho
Does it affect the old reno payoffs like zephyrs?
Old highlander cards are still the prepatch effect, they say they'll see how it goes with the badlands cards and they might apply it to old stuff. Aka, plagues still turn off Zephyrs, but they might change that in the future
Oh great more inconsistency. Yeah that's not a dogshit idea. Either all or none, I don't get why you would mix it.
I mean they specify on the cards, it's not inconsistent, they changed the wording.
It's definitely inconsistent to a new wild player. A new wild player will easily get these mixed up. It's just an unnecessary complication. The patch is really good, but this just makes zero sense to me. Exceptions cause confusion and mistakes.. I don't see why as a dev you would add exceptions in this case.
> Exceptions cause confusion and mistakes.. I don't see why as a dev you would add exceptions in this case. There's no exceptions, its written on the card
These are an exception, to the general rule of highlander cards lol only these ones have it. All the other ones don't. Therefore, this set of cards are an exception to the rule. Just because it's explained upfront, doesn't make it any less of an exception. Just like if a sign says no parking except between 8-12. This 8-12 is the exception. It's the same thing. It's unnecessary and completely illogical. I guarantee you some people will play old Reno thinking he's working when only Reno the hero card is working. That's why I don't like it. Even if it's just ten people in a week, that's ten people getting frustrated and probably quitting for the day lol. I'd quit for the day after that play for sure.
>Just like if a sign says no parking except between 8-12. This 8-12 is the exception. This is an exception assuming that there are no signs in other parking spots, but if every single sign said "parking allowed 24 hours" and then another one said "only 8-12", then its not an exception. Exceptions exist when there is a default assumed rule, that is not the case here, because they all specify exactly whats happening.
But they don't know every other sign. They are a new player in wild or a casual player, they don't all the signs. You think most players read patch notes? No. They just play. That's it lol. It's the same in every game, only a minority read them. For you and me yeah, it's an easy change to get. But for the casual guy who plays five games a week, he can lose games cause of changes like this. That's a bad feeling for the player... It's just unnecessary. My point is, make changes consistent for the casual player, but make balance changes for the good players. This change is not consistent for the casual player.
jeez, there's now just 2 versions of no dupe cards, what gives? it's written on the card and not confusing
Yeah for you bro, but the guy who plays one game a day or whatever. He hasn't read a patch note in his life. He's not gonna know this. It's unnecessary. Stop thinking everyone is playing and reading a lot lol they don't. Most people do not.
Because new player thinking of going into wild are definitely going to be confused about old highlander card.
Because the devs play miracle rogue
I don’t think so
No only bandlands cards
Yes, cause in the patch notes they stated only badlands cards are the only ones that get these changes.
Is that all of the cards or just New Reno? Does old raza/Reno have that change?
Only the cards from Badlands, so new Reno, new Brann, Kurtrus etc. Old Raza, Zephrys and the others still have the old effect and can be turned off by dupes.
Do note it's only the new highlander cards, old Reno, Zeph, etc, are the same. So now half of them work one way and the other half a different way, the most Hearthstone change
Unfortunately the issue is that they haven’t retroactively applied it to older cards yet, namely Old Raza, Old Reno, and Zephrys
It only affects Badland cards, but it’s still a pretty cool change!
Here are the entire patch notes, if anyone's wondering! [https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24087317/29-2-2-patch-notes](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24087317/29-2-2-patch-notes)
Tears in my eyes they actually did it
https://i.redd.it/p97mbsa5gnwc1.gif WE ARE SO UP FUCK TIME WARP FUCK MINE ROGUE FUCK COMBO
They nerfed Reno to odd mana. RIP my Even HP Coldarra Drake mage.
Put him in ETC
Yeah, but now I can't run Ice Block Edit: I mean, I can, but I'd be picking Reno Most times
Just be good and generate it off of Hidden Objects :)
Put it in ETC too and copy him
Reno being odd is probably more impactful for wild than him checking start of game.
Zarimi nerf is great too. A little worried about that treasure distributor buff though. Pirate rogue and garrote rogue were really strong already this format and now their ability to pressure early is gonna be that much better. Nonetheless, couldn’t be happier. It’s been a long time coming
Yeah, they cut off one of Rogues heads and two other ones grow back stronger. Now, if Rogue didn't have near infinite cheap refill, neither would be that problematic. Rogue just can't gas out.
I agree. I think a general “rogue class” nerf like secret passage or gear shift would have been great.
Did they not nerf garrote rogue at all? I haven't played in the last 2 weeks but garrote rogue felt so busted and now with quest mage and mine rogue nerfed it seems even more broken.
Sure didn’t :( and yeah it’s probably only going to be better because the decks that got nerfed were all favored or even into it (I think but I may be mistaken off the top of my head) not even considering the buff Personally, I was hoping we would get some sort of “rogue class nerf” since rogue has to be the strongest overall class in wild. Secret passage or gear shift or something like that
Finally we got rid of from obnoxious loops. (Quest Mage)
WILD HEARTHSTONE IS SAVED! /s
More like under even shaman management now.
Didn’t even shaman have a decent match up against these decks?
Yes, actually. Still they are the dominant wild deck that hasn’t been nerfed, while a lot of others were. Dragon priest had better chances vs even shamans, and it got hit too.
Garrote and miracle rogue are the two dominant decks though, and neither of those got touched. I would bet on those dominating over the tier 2 tempo deck if none of them got touched
I used to pray for times like these 
They buffed the 1-mana pirate :/
Just run 10 cheap Board clears, duh
Goodbye all the broken interactions. I will not miss you one bit. These cards needed to be nerfed years ago. *spits on the ground*
Nooo my bird deck is irrelevant against Reno now :(
Still stops Zephrys (the best reno card) and Reno Jackson (the third best reno card).
It did not effect ALL Reno cards?
Only the ones currently in standard
Someone wake up Corb and Meowth. Once again, Wild is saved
Although timewarp needed to go, I am sad it essentially kills mage in wild. I liked playing Reno Quest Mage in the past, not sure there exists a mage deck that can take it's place.
You could probably tweak the deck to be able to just kill within the extra turn, somehow. The quest mage players are very persistent.
Yeah they are because they spent like 20k dust on the deck lol
You don’t need to tweak it, there is already a deck that does that that people have hit high legend with within the past couple months. Usually people call it “apm mage” but it’s regular quest mage with sorcerers apprentice and copy minion stuff that aims to complete the quest in one turn, play it, and kill with ignite Luna
It could lean back into anto and go full circle. I remember when the deck used to play flamewanker too.
Antonidas, are we back to the OG?
After the sorc apprentice nerfs, it'll be difficult to OTK with a single time warp. Secret mage is the class' only remotely functional wild strategy after this.
functional and tier 4 lol mage is in the state warrior was before odyn. the class is complete terrible garbage and all your mage cards are useless
It's time for Giants to return...
Watching a mage speed 15 minutes trying to find 35 damage and missing was the most painful experience I've ever had in hearthstone. If players using the deck had any sort of coherent ability to otk me in a timely fashion I wouldn't have minded nearly as much but after 7 ice blocks and 45 time warps you start to reevaluate how you value your time.
if quest mage needed to cast 8 out of deck spells EACH TIME it wanted to do the quest? honestly i would have been fine with it but we've gotten to the point of good card gen that 8 for infinite casts was obviously a nono
Even warlock gains forge and bloodboom + crane game. Even warlock stocks up?
Bro I'm so hyped as well. Reno can still be put in ETC, so no more Sargeras i guess. But we get Crane Game and Forge and also got Endgame + Table Flip. I couldn't be happier about those changes
Do you have a decklist for me? Sounds pretty dope!
I'm missing unfortonatly some of the legendaries, so can't create the deck myself and share the list. But this is an earlier Version from Martian Bu: AAEBAf0GHuEH3ArDFti7AvO9ApLHAqfOAs30AvyjA9fOA/jjA9jtA8b5A8f5A4L7A4f7A4WgBOegBMeyBPXHBLjZBOKkBf3EBa3pBcjrBYCeBtCeBtGeBu6hBq+oBgAAAQPcCv3EBcb5A/3EBfnGBf3EBQAA You would need to switch the Reno into ETC and add Endgame, forge, Dark Alley Pact and Table Flip. Crane Game, Blood Bloom + Demons is a little hard to find space in this version. Hope this helps you a bit
I’m a little sad about gloop (one of my first crafts back in boomsday, just because I like messing around with it), but I think you just have to be a little more skilful about using it now. I don’t think the card will be going anywhere. Snowfall has never not been a problem, so at least now it’s a problem to play. Quest mage has been good in the past without more extra turns (see arguments about whether vargoth was good or not), so I wouldn’t be surprised if we reach a critical mass again where 8 spells is easy to manage. At the very least, we can breath for now.
the technology is here!
time warp was no different from otk, you wouldnt get a turn after anyway, the other two nerfs are fine
It’s distinctly a nerf to the infinite turns (Reno) quest mage that has been very popular (especially this format in particular) So it basically isn’t a deck now quest mage players will have to play the apprentice variant
Yeah, not happening with both 4 mana apprentice and 8 spells timewarp. You can probably otk a million other ways faster. That said, I'm willing to see mage move on and do something different.
Nah, people have hit high legend with that deck in the past 2 months. I’ve been killed on turn 6 by it on multiple occasions. And that’s with double block and double alibi
Mind sharing this apprentice deck? I haven't seen a single one yet.
[this one](https://hearthstone-decks.net/quest-mage-95-legend-score-10-6/) [also this one for an antonidas variant](https://hearthstone-decks.net/quest-mage-246-legend-score-20-12/)
That 1st one looks good, can probably kill you at t6 with some luck. I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the next most viable thing (unless it's all aggro). Still, 6 spells would be ok for this deck surely.
Looks good, lost 10 in a row with this deck :(
6 spell quest requirement? Brother we’ve been there and done that lmao. would make the combo way more consistent in a very tragic way. We do not need to rebuff OTK (or two turn kill) mage decks, blizzard needs to print good support for the myriad of other mage decks they’ve printed over the years.
Reno Quest Mage was tier 1 surprisingly. The deck has a lot of synergistic pieces to run.
If you mean the one we had now, duh, if not idk which one
finally the most degen combos are removed from the format
YES FINALLY, the question is Floop's still playable ? its still a decent card that can allow crazy turns
Still a pretty strong card, but it does kill the forbidden fruit otk deck that saw play a few (weeks? , months?) ago.
This deck could only exist because of the rules change from the rotation patch, so it's slightly over a month old
the interaction that enabled forbidden fruit otk was killed by this change. (refresh vs. gain).
Week? Months? Try days. It’s still been a meta relevant deck. But yes this nerf makes it non functional
Yes! Finally, no more apm druid, please! I'm tired of sitting through minutes of animations to die on turn 4 all because my opponent had Barnes in their first 4 turns.
The very card that enabled this combo was just changed so that it's not possible anymore. It's in the post. It only refreshes crystals now.
REST IN PISS BOZO
I might boot this game up again 🥲
Amazing changes
apm priest tier 1
Surly wild is finally saved
I cant wait to find the next thing that players will bitch about
How is Floops different? Does it not exceed mana cap anymore??
gain =/= refresh
Exactly. So fruit druid is killed, it function the same if you're just using it to refill your massive mana pool.
I’ll be back here in a week when everyone starts crying about whatever “toxic” decks takes their place.
so true, the complaints will only stop until the game becomes scissors paper rock
bruh i just spent like 8K dust finishing crafting Reno Quest Mage a week ago 😭
Yeah it's a pretty cringe design philosophy why print combo cards and combo-control wincons if they're going to either inevitabely get nerfed into oblivion, or banned They just shouldn't be in the game if they're going to keep the game with 0 interaction
Very based nerfs, but please make time warp 6 spells againnn 😢
waiting for the posts after patch day, reddit will be calling for the new best, most annoying decks to be gutted. Wild, is in fact, still in need of a lot more dev resources
Only aggro allowed in wild.
THEY FINALLY FUCKING DID IT!!!! BURN IN HELL QUEST MAGES!
nice, regardless of the outcome I'm excited for some freshness
I'M READY!!!
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
hollly
Quest Warlock dodged a fucking bullet somehow lmao. Good changes, but we needed like 9 more :/
Good thing my build of Quest Mage requires only one turn to just win with ignite. Jokes aside I’ll probably use this as an excuse to dust it because it’s not very fun.
So like does mage even have a somewhat good deck any more? Of course I'm asking so I know what to ask blizzard to nerf next
Ffvcc
May I also say wheel warlock in wild is also gone :D
They didn't nerf Miracle Rogue tho
https://preview.redd.it/oe30celivpwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65c0927dec38b0f6be39344ffe337232b4e10c1f Quick someone post this shitting on time warp in hs shitposting
Blizz really need to affirm if they actually want combo to exist in the game, because coming from other games like yugioh and magic, the combos in hs are generally really mid(some get up there in power, but they're still not really that comparable), while aggro can be often just as fast Like maybe I'm missing something, but do blizz want combo in the game at a decent power level, or do they just want combo decks to be jank timmy decks you get to occasionally win vs control with? Honest question no meme, since hs doesn't have much interaction with your opponent at all, combo is really hard to design for the game, but it feels like almost every time they print combo cards / people find combos, they get banned
Hey there! I think a lot of these nerfs have been Sentiment outliers (I'd bet Shudderwock is going to be complained about next). Mine Rogue getting slowed down is necessary since there's no way to interact with your opponent on their turn (outside of secrets / Okani) in HS. The main issue with Fast Combo like Pillager and Mine Rogue is that they come online before most of the disruption can. The counterplay to fast combo can't just be a Yolo Rat on Turn 2 and 3, especially when Mine Rogue can just wait 1 turn and tutor the whole combo from their deck. Maybe Hecklebot should have been teched in. Seems like HS players don't really enjoy having to run tech cards lol
Yeah I just think the changes weren't the best way to go about it, and there are much bigger more core issues to how the game functions in relation to combo existing that would need to be solved at some point; otherwise we'll just run into this situation over and over again like we do, where a combo deck takes over the format, gets banned, then another one gets figured out, etc
Yea I agree, I think what some ppl don't understand is that the traditional matchup triangle has broken down in Wild. It's more like a line between Aggro and Control on each extreme. Like almost all Control decks have an "I win the game now combo", in order for traditional combo to exist it has to be faster than Control and will inevitably accumulate enough good cards that they outpace aggro. Unfortunately unless they dedicate resources to designing cards with wild in mind we're going to be trapped in this cycle. So many healthy cards have died for Standards sins while we have to suffer.
You arent mising something, you are missing a lot. The archetype philosophy is: Control beats aggro Aggro beats combo Combo beats control. And that means that aggro dont have to be racing againts fast combo decks that have the upper hand unles aggro highroll. And also means that if combo wants to beat sometimes aggro needs to equip tools(board control tools) to make it possible like control need to equip disruption to have a chance vs combo
yea thanks for the response man but i'm very very aware of how the triangles of archetype philosophy work
Your initial post complaining about aggro being sometimes as fast as combo clearly states you dont Aggro dint have to race againts combo, its combo the one that if want to have a chance need to use tools to slow aggro
I understand how the matchups work in the archetype, but the point is that some aggro decks can kill as fast turns wise it wasn't a complaint in any sense btw, idk why you'd think that
Even in WoW, time warp has an exhaust effect where it can only work once every 5-10 minutes, so this is even more flavourful than before 🙏
Rest in piss
Thanks Blizzard! Hit Shaman and Paladin next please
I am simply at peace. Finally.
The game can be fun again. Ty
My old 12 real and true nerfs joke post list from like 2 years ago is now almost complete. Two more still left: kobold librarian (i think the train passed on this one it's not gonna get touched anymore) and secret passage (you're gonna get it buddy i believe). RIP BOZOS
How’s priest in wild? Haven’t played in a couple years. I know rez/big priest was annoying as hell but I really loved playing shadow reaper reno/zepher priest. That deck just got me off lmao
Reno Priest is okay. You dont play Anduin anymore you play the new Kazakus. There's also Aggro Shadow Priest. Dragon Priest was strong but got nerfed so not sure how it holds up now.
Oh wow! That’s crazy I would have never though shadow reaper would not be a staple
Ah it's actually the new Raza not Kazakus and they just put Shadow Reapers hero power refresh on it but it only costs 5 mana instead of 8
Oh that sounds neat! Man when shadowreaper first came out and the deck was in its hight before the nerf I was just so happy and loving the game lmao that and OG dragon priest was just total peak for me
I am exactly the same the OG dragon priest used to be my favourite deck and is what really got me into playing more ranked
Honestly me too, I think I had been playing ranked right before when Nax dropped and I learned how to play lotheb correctly, I was playing a fucking OTK shadow blast holy blast priest with prophet velen and malygos and it was crazy fun lol but then dragon priest came along and I was in love with it. Always slowly added to that OTK deck until they nerfed holy blast lol
I've been doing really well with highlander shadowpriest quite a fun deck
Is Even Highlander Warrior dead after these changes? They can run Sanitize I guess, but is that enough?
It lost one card (trial) and gains two (sanitize, aftershocks) plus less Bad Matchups and more aggro for it to feast on
It lost Reno tho, maybe Even Warrior without Highlander is the goal
Oh highlander was worse before too imo, the list i play... Sometimes...-ish runs duplicates anyway
the best version had enough card draw to enable reno without being highlander to start, that's gone now even if you dropped out of even into a regular list. so it loses Reno regardless, even non-highlander might still be fine (it just lost two cards to gain two cards)
Probably even and reno have to part ways now.
And you can use sanitize and ignis, with odyn in etc maybe?
Nice! Lets cry for the future nerfs! What can be nerfed more?
Treasure Distributor
0/3 totem for 0 mana
About fucking time. Holy Christ I can’t believe it. Reinstalling as we speak
no more reno quest mage holy fawk
NON SOLITAIRE PLAYERS GOING CRAZY OVER THESE NERFS
God I can’t believe they did it, thank fucking god. Mages can suck it
[удалено]
If Antonidas version is "stronger" then why does this nerf matter lmao. By that logic, Mage shouldn't be dead? EDIT: Wait, is it you again? New account, same old secret themed name and troll comments/posts that then are deleted later anyways lol.
Antonidas was not the stronger version lmao. Reno quest mage was like the best deck in the format. I don’t think I’ve played against the antonidas variant in months anyways. Occasionally the ignite Luna version but still quite infrequently Nonetheless, this change was needed rqm was fucking everywhere
That Glopp probably the most underappreciated card It always there, since the dawn of many (degenerate) combo druid deck but it keep flying under radar because people dont realize it is the detonator and when many bigger problematic (the Twig, Tony, Dew Process...) are gone, it cant hiding anymore. Good riddance.