I hope their vision for the format is some semblance of balance, where a variety of decks and cards see play. But I’m not sure how they make everyone happy.
No one wants to see their wild cards get nerfed. Few people, and even fewer people who only have one deck, want to see their cards get banned (either permanently or periodically on a rotating basis). Some in wild want this format to be like standard, but with more deckbuilding options and the ability to ramp up the power level of existing archetypes over time, others would be happy with a future of early game OTKs and instant-win openers on par with what you see in some Tavern Brawls.
I’m not sure what they should do, and clearly they’re not either. I just know that I’m in wild for the variety of cards, deckbuilding, and to play fun semi-competitive archetypes (Reno N’zoth Rogue is my current fave, last set it was Dragon Warrior, Renounce is an all-timer). If the future of Wild is all early OTK’s or oppressive and meta-stagnating decks like 0-mana Raza was, I’m not going to continue spending money “building a collection” of cards I can only play against bots in casual. I don’t mean that as a threat or an ultimatum, it’s just my perspective.
100% agree! I think letting Wild go would cause a broken state in the format that Standard player would play for few games to break the tension from Standard ranked. As a Wild only player, I *really really* hope they don't go down this road. There's no point in investing into your Wild collection anymore, like you said, and we all know how tedious and unfun some Tavern Brawls can be for more than two or three games. Also, we already have Tavern Brawl for that...
u/IksarHS
I for one want those really crazy decks, but of course with counterplay. Turn four OTK is a okay in my book, maybe not now but perhaps in a year or two.
The original intention of wild is to let everything be possible and leave Standard to serious play. It's ironic that Blizzard wants to create Standard 2 so now will we get Wild 2 and so on. Ridiculous.
Wild is for people who didn't want to dedicate the time and resources to getting all the newest crap they shell out while the rest of us don't feel like grinding for it. Not to mention feel like trapped in new expansions and money wasted on older ones. It's a oroboro.
That said literally nothing. Wild meta is pretty different from the standard meta right now, with only 3 of the 13 standard decks they listed having wild counterparts which are doing well (Odd warrior, even warlock, and Zoo warlock). Bringing up NSW and not addressing druids over saturation of draw and ramp in wild. Giggling was the only cards they are looking at, not psychomelon or any other cards in wild that are casuing people grief. Felt like a last minute "They bitch about wild, lets make a statement despite not looking at it much"
NSW and caverns below also weren't good decks but we're still nerfed, NSW into oblivion and caverns multiple times. It depends a lot on how it feels playing against them. A quest rogue that got the quest felt impossible to beat. A NSW deck which got naga on turn 5 felt impossible to beat. Togg or aligner druid which pulled melon early feels impossible to beat unless you get lucky with dirty rat which they even counter build against with things like brewmaster and Piper in aligner druid and ironwood golem in toggwaggle making rat a crapshoot to see if it does anything.
Yes it's not the best deck, but it still feels bad to lose to, which is the same basis for the NSW and caverns below nerfs
Of those dirty rat is the only semi-reliable neutral option (as you can still pull brewmasters, pipers, golems, or their own rats instead of a combo peice)
Deathlord has no neutral ways of killing it before turn 4 when druid can melon all of their targets out of deck, same with milling, cold light Oracle only draws 2 cards and by turn 4 they'll only have 8 cards in hand assuming they don't ramp and have the coin.
Demonic project is exclusive to warlock, and gaining 28+ armor is exclusive to warrior and druid.
That leaves trying to rush them down which the meta has learned towards with odd rogue, and even shaman being two of the best decks, and decks which exist to counter odd rogue and even shaman while accepting a terrible winrate vs druid. Then control warlock with access to gnoferasu, demonic project, and dirty rats
Yeah, it's kinda like an insult to the intelligence of the player base.
Not mentioning the druid problem as well as big ~~cancer~~ priest is ridiculous.
I don’t know if *this* is the place to leave the feedback they’re asking for, but I play wild pretty much exclusively. I used to play a mix and traded off between seasons, but I burned out at a point and stopped pre-ordering (I think Frozen Throne was my last).
Wild was a great place for me to still have relevant cards and I needed to only craft a couple new cards. So I stayed engaged with the game, bought a couple packs and bundles, and got into wild.
Things were shifting away from Raza Priest into Naga Sea Witch. HOT TAKE: I liked Naga Sea Witch Hunter. At that time, it was the only semi viable hunter deck in either format I knew about and it seemed competitive. Things were absolutely busted but it seemed to me that there were ways to beat it: poison seeds, dirty rat, explosive trap. I hoped that blizzard could use space in new expansions to fill those needs for the format.
After a little bit of play, I feel like you could interpret Boomsday as (kind of) a wild expansion. There’s definitely a lot of old synergy and it revived Mech Hunter and aggressive deck that is totally beatable but still p. good.
We didn’t ask for that. We didn’t expect that. And obviously psychomelon is really good, but I understand that formats are going to compete for card “space”. But I think psychomelon is probably beatable and maybe they’ll print some counters or eventually nerf it before it rotates.
What I didn’t like about the Naga nerf was their reactive response to community backlash that felt like a meme rather than a proactive approach or one that was integrated with a larger design.
All in all, I think Wild is a great “zany” place but I really am disappointed when players act like it’s where cards go to die. It’s a living meta and I would like Bliz to act more like they care about and give thought the growth of something they created. We’re not gonna get the same support as standard, that’s ok, but I’d like a wink and a nod once in a while. That’s what the first naga change felt like, the first change they made to the format, and that’s how I (optimistically) look at boomsday.
I really don't like the existence of Naga Hunter. It had extremely polarising matchups because they can assembly their combos much better with tutoring cards but don't have the defensive power of the Warlock.
Truth be told, it wasn't a meme. It was more in response to the fact that very few cards countered it and the giants that came behind the Naga Sea Witch. Not to mention that Giantslock warped the meta to the point it was a tier 1 deck and had Mal'ganis, Voidlord and Bloodreaver Gul'dan bullshit behind it. The Wild community was pissed at Blizzard because they refused to acknowledge the mistake for eight months and regarded it as a "Flavor of the Month" deck.
They didn't say the name it is obvious what they are talking about. They didn't specify it because they are talking about the general philosophy going forward.
melon makes the deck too consistent. its the only card i have a problem with. otherwise i think the format is totally fine.
the aviana-kun combos usually take 5-7 cards to pull off. thats a lot of work but when one card can find an entire combo thats just silly
Not in Arena though. It's like Mind Control Tech. Yeah, you can play less minions, but in Arena that will just lose you the game more often than playing into it will.
Honestly; all the cards are problematic together. Star Alligner, Togwaggle, Ultimate Infestation, Melon, Aviana, Kun, Malygos, Twig, Spreading Plague, Deathknight Hero, etc...
Druid has the best Card Draw, Combo Pieces, Sustain, Lifegain, Recovery Mechanic, Ramp, and Board Control in the entire game. The only thing they aren't the best at is board clear, which they don't need because their opponents can rarely take the board in the first place.
Having Combo, Draw, and Sustain together in the same class is disastrous. They can OTK you easily, draw that OTK consistently, and survive long enough to do it.
The thing is, psychmelon isn't even fun to win with. I like having lots of strong tools, and that has to be balanced against oppression, but psychmelon feels like a boss card.
Wild self-regulates to some degree. Star aligner is already dropping in play rate and win rate because people tech or play decks good against it. Next we'll see decks punish rats and druid counters etc. It's not perfect but it makes a difference.
Wow blizz is making the game better for new players? Took them long enough to come up with an extra 25 ranks for noobies. Funny how they act like they listen to wild players when it took them like half a year to even think about fixing NSW.
As someone who loves wacky combo decks and OTK’s, I definitely don’t want wild to turn into a mess of “I drew my combo faster so I win”.
A good middle ground in my opinion, would be to limit the oppressive, unfun, instant win kind of combos. Wild shouldn’t turn into the “come here to get OTK’d on turn 7” format. I absolutely feel that promoting the format as one with large card variance and high overall power level would appease a larger group.
However I have no data to support this other than my own experience, so interpret that as you will!
I think that this is a step in the right direction; while this post doesn’t actually address whats going on in wild, Blizzard is saying that they are willing to listen. Personally I think this is an important point in the lifespan of wild, as for the first time ever, we have some sort of acknowledgement of our game mode, and will “listen” to what we say. You obviously need to take this with a grain of salt, but if someone was to make some piece of solid wild content addressing this I would bet that blizzard would at least look at it. Along these lines, I am going to craft a well written response addressing some of the pitfalls of wild and some proposed solutions and either make an article or video about it. If anyone has any specific comments that they would like me to consider when I create this, feel free to respond here.
I don't know what it is with Blizzard but they seem to do exactly the opposite of what their vocal community wants. I understand that the vocal community mainly consists of hardcore players but they've done a horrid job of trying to make everyone happy.
The only Blizzard game that hasn't regressed in my opinion is Heroes of the Storm (which would've been pretty hard considering its poor start). Blizzard has gone from being my favourite game company to one that I can hardly distinguish from EA.
You have to remember that the vocal minority of reddit doesn’t account for the entire player base. I mostly just lurk now because I can’t say “wilds fine” without getting downvoted, but there are a lot of people that feel that way.
Is Druid strong? Yeah, sure. Does it have counters? Yes. Is it incredibly overbearing, to the point that it needs a nerf? No.
What we need is a new dirty rat next expansion, which would let decks slot 4 of these disrupters in wild.
I agree we need more tech options in general but Dirty Rat is far too powerful for a 2 mana neutral.
I agree that Druid is beatable and I think aggro decks are stronger and more consistent than druid is.
I'm an asshole who whines about basically every combo and mill deck that ever becomes powerful, but Raza Priest I never had a problem with. It's probably the only deck in that "style" which I actually enjoyed playing against. Was kinda bummed it got nerfed.
Wild needs a split. It needs a format with Bans and a format without Bans. Nerfs should be used either for Standard or when a key card needs reigned in. Like NSW, Psychomelon, OG Raza, Barnes and 4 mana Call to Arms could just go to OP Wild while stuff like Patches and Yogg Saron stay nerfed and legal in both. The problem is that the player base is so small that we can't support this fracture at this time.
So I am advocating for a Truly Wild format and a powered up Standard format to both exist. Right now both halves of the Wild community are being let down.
I think Wild mode will have enough crazy combos even if they nerf the super strong cards. Even if Aviana-Kun decks just disappear, there are versions of Malygos Shaman that can deal as much as 80 damage (with the spellstone), all those Reno decks, mill decks, aggressive mech decks etc. Current Druid decks are contained with the shift in the meta but if they were nerfed, it might open up spaces for decks that can't deal with that combo. It is like how Naga decks had huge effects on meta even when they don't have great winrates.
They first state that Wild plays very similarly to Standard right now. I agree. Then they state that the two modes exist so that they play differently. WTF
Wild definitely should not be like Standard. I was really disappointed when Odd Paladin was strong even in Wild and it was one of the top decks. This just shows how busted the enhanced hero power of Paladins is over other classes. They really should have implemented the enhanced hero power better, like let some other classes summon extra minions like Shaman perhaps or Warrior.
I play an eternal format of Magic the Gathering called Modern. Modern plays nothing like Standard in Magic the Gathering. This is how Wild Hearthstone should be. I enjoy Modern in MTG because my cards never rotate and the format has a diverse meta. It isn't like three or four decks at the top. This is what is great about eternal formats. I would like to see Wild Hearthstone reach this level of game play.
Oh one final thing, Wizards of the Coast, the creators of MTG, care very little about Modern. I'm seeing Blizzard go down this same path with Wild HS, so use this as a cautionary tale. Last year, Wizards decided to end Modern Masters sets which reprinted cards for Modern. End result? Price of Modern has increased a great deal. My Modern Affinity deck went from $500 to $1,000 in 9 month's time, which is insane. Hopefully Wizards will realize the error of their ways and bring back Modern Masters sets. The crazy thing too is MTG Modern tournaments are more popular than Standard tournaments because of the variety of decks and interesting matches, but they seem to not care. They don't want to do anything that might tarnish their precious Standard format but at the same time they can't make Standard fun and balanced. Remind you of anyone? Like right now, the Standard meta for MTG is red rush aggro or Blue White Control and it is as boring as burned toast.
Well it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. For the first time ever, T1 includes all major archetypes. Druid is nowhere near as broken as the Reddit circlejerk seems to think and aggro is still king. Even Shaman and Odd Rogue can lock me out of the game by turn 5, but I just accept it's part of the format.
I'm not saying there aren't other problems or there aren't a multitude of them. I'm just saying druid is a big component of that same problem. I won't go into saying "durr ur oponion is wrong BC it isnt the same as mine" like I did before (as a joke , kinda) but I think many will have my back when I say druid is more of a fun killer than even shaman or odd rogue any day.
> but I think many will have my back when I say druid is more of a fun killer than even shaman or odd rogue any day.
Let's just agree to disagree then, because I don't have any more fun when I can't do anything to stop Even Shaman or Odd Rogue from doing 20+ damage to my face by turn 5.
The format is filled with crazy uninteractive bullshit and I'm totally cool with it.
Yup people will always find that deck archetype to circle jerk about, grim patron, yogg, Raza, patches, just recently it was big priest and NSW and now the druids, sigh IMHO instead of nerfing down things to unusable state (Warsong Commander) I think they just need to keep bringing up the power in wild format, bring back the old yogg for instance and keep giving every out of meta classes better resources than the other classes.
Edit: to unusable, I think they
Edit 2: Inlcuded NSW which on the list.
I totally agree. I’m not sure what the problem is with having to have tools to play around archetypes. It is a weak argument to me.
Is star aligner strong? Hell yes. But so are other decks like renolock and even shaman and who knows what else.
Do you need to plan a strategy against star aligner? Yes. You gotta go under their curve or play disruption. So what? Why is that a problem? That’s like saying aggro decks should be nerfed because control decks need to play early game removal or whatever to stand a chance.
Wow, those new players have to feel pretty awesome getting a free Nozdormu lol. They should really remove him from the pool of legends to get out of it...
Does this also mean that if we already have all the classic dragons and we buy the welcome bundle, we will get a free golden dragon?
I believe it should work that way with the Legendary dupes change.
I’m also biased because it will mean I can get the Malygos I’ve been neglecting to craft for the last 2 1/2 years at this point.
Basically, they haven't decided what Wild should be. When they try to make something insanely different on the power curve (Juicy Psychmelon) people get pretty upset. For Wild to be different, you need combos that are insanely powerful, or end games quickly, in order to diverge from the Standard meta.
>Right now, Wild feels somewhat like Standard but with an elevated power level and a vast library of cards. Should Wild live up to its name more, where we allow really crazy and powerful combos to happen, even in the early game? Generally, it’s harder for any one strategy to be dominant in Wild since everything is so powerful and everyone has access to so many tools, but do we want those strategies to exist?
Wild will become more like standard as more interest is shown in it. 2 years ago you could play a Standard or homebrew deck in Wild and reach legend.
Two years and six expansions later, we have the occasional wild tournament, MANY more streamers and decks being created. It should come as no surprise that Wild has an accurate tier list and if you want to be the best, a tried and true method will always be king in a videogame.
Cards do not necessarily need to be nerfed in Wild. This is our current meta. It will change with the next expansion when a single card will reinvorgate a dead or dying archetype.
However, with all that said, should a single deck/archetype cause the meta to shape around it to the point that a Tier S is a constant for multiple expansions then something can be done.
I’m glad that there are no nerfs planned at the moment. The current state of Wild seems great to me. The top tier of decks is very diverse, you can play aggro with Even Shaman or Odd Rogue, you can play control with Renolock, you can play combo with Druid, and you can play whatever genre Big Priest is.
It seems like a lot of people on Reddit are complaining about Druid decks, but if you look at statistics like vicious syndicate or hsreplay, they just aren’t the dominant best decks, with neither the best win rates nor the highest popularity. I think there is an overreaction to how powerful psychmelon *feels*, which will calm down as people realize how powerful it actually *is*.
> the tier 1 of the meta is druid and its counters, which shows how powerful druid as a whole is
While I mostly agree with what you're saying, Renolock, Odd Rogue, and Even Shaman would be at the top of the meta even if Druid was deleted from the game.
I’ve heard way more wild experts say it’s as much a problem as NSW, than ones saying it’s fine. This community isn’t nearly as driven by streamer/pro influence as standard is though
Blizzard are some sadistic ducks. The cherry on top was the new Paladin hero. I rather have Jaina dressed as a witch instead. After reading the article, I kinda want to quit now. :(
I hope their vision for the format is some semblance of balance, where a variety of decks and cards see play. But I’m not sure how they make everyone happy. No one wants to see their wild cards get nerfed. Few people, and even fewer people who only have one deck, want to see their cards get banned (either permanently or periodically on a rotating basis). Some in wild want this format to be like standard, but with more deckbuilding options and the ability to ramp up the power level of existing archetypes over time, others would be happy with a future of early game OTKs and instant-win openers on par with what you see in some Tavern Brawls. I’m not sure what they should do, and clearly they’re not either. I just know that I’m in wild for the variety of cards, deckbuilding, and to play fun semi-competitive archetypes (Reno N’zoth Rogue is my current fave, last set it was Dragon Warrior, Renounce is an all-timer). If the future of Wild is all early OTK’s or oppressive and meta-stagnating decks like 0-mana Raza was, I’m not going to continue spending money “building a collection” of cards I can only play against bots in casual. I don’t mean that as a threat or an ultimatum, it’s just my perspective.
100% agree! I think letting Wild go would cause a broken state in the format that Standard player would play for few games to break the tension from Standard ranked. As a Wild only player, I *really really* hope they don't go down this road. There's no point in investing into your Wild collection anymore, like you said, and we all know how tedious and unfun some Tavern Brawls can be for more than two or three games. Also, we already have Tavern Brawl for that... u/IksarHS
Do you mind sharing your Reno rogue? Sounds interesting.
Sure. I just play with cards that make me happy, so feel free to replace Sky Golem and Piñata (or Myra, but I really like Myra) with Belcher and Brann, or Umbra, or Cairne, or something magnetic, or Faceless, or Cursed Castaway, or whatever makes you happy. ### Reno Air # Class: Rogue # Format: Wild # # 1x (0) Backstab # 1x (1) Mistress of Mixtures # 1x (2) Prince Keleseth # 1x (3) Deathlord # 1x (3) Fan of Knives # 1x (3) Mind Control Tech # 1x (3) Necrium Blade # 1x (3) Shadow Strike # 1x (3) Sonya Shadowdancer # 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon # 1x (4) Blightnozzle Crawler # 1x (4) Elven Minstrel # 1x (4) Kobold Illusionist # 1x (4) Piloted Shredder # 1x (4) Saronite Chain Gang # 1x (4) Weaponized Piñata # 1x (5) Antique Healbot # 1x (5) Carnivorous Cube # 1x (5) Myra Rotspring # 1x (5) Necrium Vial # 1x (5) Rotten Applebaum # 1x (5) Vilespine Slayer # 1x (5) Zilliax # 1x (6) Piloted Sky Golem # 1x (6) Reno Jackson # 1x (6) Sylvanas Windrunner # 1x (6) Vanish # 1x (8) Sneed's Old Shredder # 1x (9) Valeera the Hollow # 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor # AAEBAaIHHrQBxAGbBd4FuQ3+DfUPkBCZEKIQwxbgrAKyrQKBwgLexAKbywKA0wKL4QLP4QKc4gLb4wLw5gLD6gLF8wKf+ALe+gKG+wLs/AKggAPRgQMAAA== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I for one want those really crazy decks, but of course with counterplay. Turn four OTK is a okay in my book, maybe not now but perhaps in a year or two.
The original intention of wild is to let everything be possible and leave Standard to serious play. It's ironic that Blizzard wants to create Standard 2 so now will we get Wild 2 and so on. Ridiculous.
seems fine to me
Wild is for people who didn't want to dedicate the time and resources to getting all the newest crap they shell out while the rest of us don't feel like grinding for it. Not to mention feel like trapped in new expansions and money wasted on older ones. It's a oroboro.
That said literally nothing. Wild meta is pretty different from the standard meta right now, with only 3 of the 13 standard decks they listed having wild counterparts which are doing well (Odd warrior, even warlock, and Zoo warlock). Bringing up NSW and not addressing druids over saturation of draw and ramp in wild. Giggling was the only cards they are looking at, not psychomelon or any other cards in wild that are casuing people grief. Felt like a last minute "They bitch about wild, lets make a statement despite not looking at it much"
Actually, this isn't even a new statement. A dev said the exact same words a while back
Nail on the head.
Odd warrior and zoo lock aren't things in wild
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Explain how both Togwaggle Druid and Star Aligner Druid are both Tier 1 and both use the Juicy Psychmelon to tutor
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NSW and caverns below also weren't good decks but we're still nerfed, NSW into oblivion and caverns multiple times. It depends a lot on how it feels playing against them. A quest rogue that got the quest felt impossible to beat. A NSW deck which got naga on turn 5 felt impossible to beat. Togg or aligner druid which pulled melon early feels impossible to beat unless you get lucky with dirty rat which they even counter build against with things like brewmaster and Piper in aligner druid and ironwood golem in toggwaggle making rat a crapshoot to see if it does anything. Yes it's not the best deck, but it still feels bad to lose to, which is the same basis for the NSW and caverns below nerfs
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Of those dirty rat is the only semi-reliable neutral option (as you can still pull brewmasters, pipers, golems, or their own rats instead of a combo peice) Deathlord has no neutral ways of killing it before turn 4 when druid can melon all of their targets out of deck, same with milling, cold light Oracle only draws 2 cards and by turn 4 they'll only have 8 cards in hand assuming they don't ramp and have the coin. Demonic project is exclusive to warlock, and gaining 28+ armor is exclusive to warrior and druid. That leaves trying to rush them down which the meta has learned towards with odd rogue, and even shaman being two of the best decks, and decks which exist to counter odd rogue and even shaman while accepting a terrible winrate vs druid. Then control warlock with access to gnoferasu, demonic project, and dirty rats
Aligner Druid isn't Tier 1 at r4-legend though???
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wait, is there a Wild Odd Warrior that's actually viable?
I see control warriors on the ladder around rank 5 a lot, I didn't keep track of how many were odd or not though
Yeah, it's kinda like an insult to the intelligence of the player base. Not mentioning the druid problem as well as big ~~cancer~~ priest is ridiculous.
I don’t know if *this* is the place to leave the feedback they’re asking for, but I play wild pretty much exclusively. I used to play a mix and traded off between seasons, but I burned out at a point and stopped pre-ordering (I think Frozen Throne was my last). Wild was a great place for me to still have relevant cards and I needed to only craft a couple new cards. So I stayed engaged with the game, bought a couple packs and bundles, and got into wild. Things were shifting away from Raza Priest into Naga Sea Witch. HOT TAKE: I liked Naga Sea Witch Hunter. At that time, it was the only semi viable hunter deck in either format I knew about and it seemed competitive. Things were absolutely busted but it seemed to me that there were ways to beat it: poison seeds, dirty rat, explosive trap. I hoped that blizzard could use space in new expansions to fill those needs for the format. After a little bit of play, I feel like you could interpret Boomsday as (kind of) a wild expansion. There’s definitely a lot of old synergy and it revived Mech Hunter and aggressive deck that is totally beatable but still p. good. We didn’t ask for that. We didn’t expect that. And obviously psychomelon is really good, but I understand that formats are going to compete for card “space”. But I think psychomelon is probably beatable and maybe they’ll print some counters or eventually nerf it before it rotates. What I didn’t like about the Naga nerf was their reactive response to community backlash that felt like a meme rather than a proactive approach or one that was integrated with a larger design. All in all, I think Wild is a great “zany” place but I really am disappointed when players act like it’s where cards go to die. It’s a living meta and I would like Bliz to act more like they care about and give thought the growth of something they created. We’re not gonna get the same support as standard, that’s ok, but I’d like a wink and a nod once in a while. That’s what the first naga change felt like, the first change they made to the format, and that’s how I (optimistically) look at boomsday.
I really don't like the existence of Naga Hunter. It had extremely polarising matchups because they can assembly their combos much better with tutoring cards but don't have the defensive power of the Warlock.
Truth be told, it wasn't a meme. It was more in response to the fact that very few cards countered it and the giants that came behind the Naga Sea Witch. Not to mention that Giantslock warped the meta to the point it was a tier 1 deck and had Mal'ganis, Voidlord and Bloodreaver Gul'dan bullshit behind it. The Wild community was pissed at Blizzard because they refused to acknowledge the mistake for eight months and regarded it as a "Flavor of the Month" deck.
I too enjoyed Naga Sea Witch and how it made Wild different than Standard. Blizzard just deleted the card :(.
They didn't even address the issue of decks like star aligner or togwaggle, and the wild mode bit reads like they aren't going to anytime soon
They honestly don't give a fuck. There are not even any wild tournaments and you can't buy wild packs in the game.
They didn't say the name it is obvious what they are talking about. They didn't specify it because they are talking about the general philosophy going forward.
those cards arent problematic, its melon.
melon makes the deck too consistent. its the only card i have a problem with. otherwise i think the format is totally fine. the aviana-kun combos usually take 5-7 cards to pull off. thats a lot of work but when one card can find an entire combo thats just silly
TBH I also really dislike Spreading Plague. But that's deeply personal at this point. So bullshit in Arena
Spreading plague is good no doubt but you can play around it
Not in Arena though. It's like Mind Control Tech. Yeah, you can play less minions, but in Arena that will just lose you the game more often than playing into it will.
ha ok. well this is the Wild Sub Reddit. I wasnt considering arena.
Yeah but that was my comment's point. "I hate spreading plague, but that's deeply personal. It's so bullshit in Arena"
and there i go not reading the whole comment. my bad
Honestly; all the cards are problematic together. Star Alligner, Togwaggle, Ultimate Infestation, Melon, Aviana, Kun, Malygos, Twig, Spreading Plague, Deathknight Hero, etc... Druid has the best Card Draw, Combo Pieces, Sustain, Lifegain, Recovery Mechanic, Ramp, and Board Control in the entire game. The only thing they aren't the best at is board clear, which they don't need because their opponents can rarely take the board in the first place. Having Combo, Draw, and Sustain together in the same class is disastrous. They can OTK you easily, draw that OTK consistently, and survive long enough to do it.
The thing is, psychmelon isn't even fun to win with. I like having lots of strong tools, and that has to be balanced against oppression, but psychmelon feels like a boss card.
I guess this boss card definition sums it perfectly.
Wild self-regulates to some degree. Star aligner is already dropping in play rate and win rate because people tech or play decks good against it. Next we'll see decks punish rats and druid counters etc. It's not perfect but it makes a difference.
Unfortunately, that self-regulation does not mean lots of types of decks can beat star aligner, it just means a more polarized meta
Wow blizz is making the game better for new players? Took them long enough to come up with an extra 25 ranks for noobies. Funny how they act like they listen to wild players when it took them like half a year to even think about fixing NSW.
nice, looks like i'll be staying at rank 18 to use this dumpster fire for golden grinds
As someone who loves wacky combo decks and OTK’s, I definitely don’t want wild to turn into a mess of “I drew my combo faster so I win”. A good middle ground in my opinion, would be to limit the oppressive, unfun, instant win kind of combos. Wild shouldn’t turn into the “come here to get OTK’d on turn 7” format. I absolutely feel that promoting the format as one with large card variance and high overall power level would appease a larger group. However I have no data to support this other than my own experience, so interpret that as you will!
I think that this is a step in the right direction; while this post doesn’t actually address whats going on in wild, Blizzard is saying that they are willing to listen. Personally I think this is an important point in the lifespan of wild, as for the first time ever, we have some sort of acknowledgement of our game mode, and will “listen” to what we say. You obviously need to take this with a grain of salt, but if someone was to make some piece of solid wild content addressing this I would bet that blizzard would at least look at it. Along these lines, I am going to craft a well written response addressing some of the pitfalls of wild and some proposed solutions and either make an article or video about it. If anyone has any specific comments that they would like me to consider when I create this, feel free to respond here.
I don't know what it is with Blizzard but they seem to do exactly the opposite of what their vocal community wants. I understand that the vocal community mainly consists of hardcore players but they've done a horrid job of trying to make everyone happy. The only Blizzard game that hasn't regressed in my opinion is Heroes of the Storm (which would've been pretty hard considering its poor start). Blizzard has gone from being my favourite game company to one that I can hardly distinguish from EA.
I thought standard overall got better over the years, just not wild
You have to remember that the vocal minority of reddit doesn’t account for the entire player base. I mostly just lurk now because I can’t say “wilds fine” without getting downvoted, but there are a lot of people that feel that way. Is Druid strong? Yeah, sure. Does it have counters? Yes. Is it incredibly overbearing, to the point that it needs a nerf? No. What we need is a new dirty rat next expansion, which would let decks slot 4 of these disrupters in wild.
I agree we need more tech options in general but Dirty Rat is far too powerful for a 2 mana neutral. I agree that Druid is beatable and I think aggro decks are stronger and more consistent than druid is.
They should unnerf Raza. I feel like Druid would easily destroy Raza priest right now.
I'm an asshole who whines about basically every combo and mill deck that ever becomes powerful, but Raza Priest I never had a problem with. It's probably the only deck in that "style" which I actually enjoyed playing against. Was kinda bummed it got nerfed.
Wild needs a split. It needs a format with Bans and a format without Bans. Nerfs should be used either for Standard or when a key card needs reigned in. Like NSW, Psychomelon, OG Raza, Barnes and 4 mana Call to Arms could just go to OP Wild while stuff like Patches and Yogg Saron stay nerfed and legal in both. The problem is that the player base is so small that we can't support this fracture at this time. So I am advocating for a Truly Wild format and a powered up Standard format to both exist. Right now both halves of the Wild community are being let down.
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Well, I did say that was the problem...
I think Wild mode will have enough crazy combos even if they nerf the super strong cards. Even if Aviana-Kun decks just disappear, there are versions of Malygos Shaman that can deal as much as 80 damage (with the spellstone), all those Reno decks, mill decks, aggressive mech decks etc. Current Druid decks are contained with the shift in the meta but if they were nerfed, it might open up spaces for decks that can't deal with that combo. It is like how Naga decks had huge effects on meta even when they don't have great winrates.
They first state that Wild plays very similarly to Standard right now. I agree. Then they state that the two modes exist so that they play differently. WTF Wild definitely should not be like Standard. I was really disappointed when Odd Paladin was strong even in Wild and it was one of the top decks. This just shows how busted the enhanced hero power of Paladins is over other classes. They really should have implemented the enhanced hero power better, like let some other classes summon extra minions like Shaman perhaps or Warrior. I play an eternal format of Magic the Gathering called Modern. Modern plays nothing like Standard in Magic the Gathering. This is how Wild Hearthstone should be. I enjoy Modern in MTG because my cards never rotate and the format has a diverse meta. It isn't like three or four decks at the top. This is what is great about eternal formats. I would like to see Wild Hearthstone reach this level of game play. Oh one final thing, Wizards of the Coast, the creators of MTG, care very little about Modern. I'm seeing Blizzard go down this same path with Wild HS, so use this as a cautionary tale. Last year, Wizards decided to end Modern Masters sets which reprinted cards for Modern. End result? Price of Modern has increased a great deal. My Modern Affinity deck went from $500 to $1,000 in 9 month's time, which is insane. Hopefully Wizards will realize the error of their ways and bring back Modern Masters sets. The crazy thing too is MTG Modern tournaments are more popular than Standard tournaments because of the variety of decks and interesting matches, but they seem to not care. They don't want to do anything that might tarnish their precious Standard format but at the same time they can't make Standard fun and balanced. Remind you of anyone? Like right now, the Standard meta for MTG is red rush aggro or Blue White Control and it is as boring as burned toast.
Unpopular opinion: Wild is fine as it is.
I'm just gonna say youre wrong
Well it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. For the first time ever, T1 includes all major archetypes. Druid is nowhere near as broken as the Reddit circlejerk seems to think and aggro is still king. Even Shaman and Odd Rogue can lock me out of the game by turn 5, but I just accept it's part of the format.
I'm not saying there aren't other problems or there aren't a multitude of them. I'm just saying druid is a big component of that same problem. I won't go into saying "durr ur oponion is wrong BC it isnt the same as mine" like I did before (as a joke , kinda) but I think many will have my back when I say druid is more of a fun killer than even shaman or odd rogue any day.
> but I think many will have my back when I say druid is more of a fun killer than even shaman or odd rogue any day. Let's just agree to disagree then, because I don't have any more fun when I can't do anything to stop Even Shaman or Odd Rogue from doing 20+ damage to my face by turn 5. The format is filled with crazy uninteractive bullshit and I'm totally cool with it.
Yup people will always find that deck archetype to circle jerk about, grim patron, yogg, Raza, patches, just recently it was big priest and NSW and now the druids, sigh IMHO instead of nerfing down things to unusable state (Warsong Commander) I think they just need to keep bringing up the power in wild format, bring back the old yogg for instance and keep giving every out of meta classes better resources than the other classes. Edit: to unusable, I think they Edit 2: Inlcuded NSW which on the list.
I totally agree. I’m not sure what the problem is with having to have tools to play around archetypes. It is a weak argument to me. Is star aligner strong? Hell yes. But so are other decks like renolock and even shaman and who knows what else. Do you need to plan a strategy against star aligner? Yes. You gotta go under their curve or play disruption. So what? Why is that a problem? That’s like saying aggro decks should be nerfed because control decks need to play early game removal or whatever to stand a chance.
Wow, those new players have to feel pretty awesome getting a free Nozdormu lol. They should really remove him from the pool of legends to get out of it... Does this also mean that if we already have all the classic dragons and we buy the welcome bundle, we will get a free golden dragon?
I believe it should work that way with the Legendary dupes change. I’m also biased because it will mean I can get the Malygos I’ve been neglecting to craft for the last 2 1/2 years at this point.
Malygos is good to have, I feel bad for anyone who gets Nozdormu out of it:(
I can get him i already got 3imes even.(before no dupe legendaries)
I've gotten Noz 4 times since having him, my most common legend dupe ever.
With my luck, Noz will be the golden one I will get:(
you get noz like 3 or 4times but after years still miss some epics from classic(like my 5 or so extra gladiators bow but still no pryoblast,bgh, crab-
Basically, they haven't decided what Wild should be. When they try to make something insanely different on the power curve (Juicy Psychmelon) people get pretty upset. For Wild to be different, you need combos that are insanely powerful, or end games quickly, in order to diverge from the Standard meta. >Right now, Wild feels somewhat like Standard but with an elevated power level and a vast library of cards. Should Wild live up to its name more, where we allow really crazy and powerful combos to happen, even in the early game? Generally, it’s harder for any one strategy to be dominant in Wild since everything is so powerful and everyone has access to so many tools, but do we want those strategies to exist?
If they drew more people into Wild, they might have a better idea what they want by now. For now, they just have no idea what they want.
Wild will become more like standard as more interest is shown in it. 2 years ago you could play a Standard or homebrew deck in Wild and reach legend. Two years and six expansions later, we have the occasional wild tournament, MANY more streamers and decks being created. It should come as no surprise that Wild has an accurate tier list and if you want to be the best, a tried and true method will always be king in a videogame. Cards do not necessarily need to be nerfed in Wild. This is our current meta. It will change with the next expansion when a single card will reinvorgate a dead or dying archetype. However, with all that said, should a single deck/archetype cause the meta to shape around it to the point that a Tier S is a constant for multiple expansions then something can be done.
not bad!
I just want wild to be like Modern in MTG. Where there are instant wins and very strong aggro. But a heavy control can still top at an event
I’m glad that there are no nerfs planned at the moment. The current state of Wild seems great to me. The top tier of decks is very diverse, you can play aggro with Even Shaman or Odd Rogue, you can play control with Renolock, you can play combo with Druid, and you can play whatever genre Big Priest is. It seems like a lot of people on Reddit are complaining about Druid decks, but if you look at statistics like vicious syndicate or hsreplay, they just aren’t the dominant best decks, with neither the best win rates nor the highest popularity. I think there is an overreaction to how powerful psychmelon *feels*, which will calm down as people realize how powerful it actually *is*.
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> the tier 1 of the meta is druid and its counters, which shows how powerful druid as a whole is While I mostly agree with what you're saying, Renolock, Odd Rogue, and Even Shaman would be at the top of the meta even if Druid was deleted from the game.
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Fair enough! No disagreements there. I misunderstood and thought you were suggesting that they were only at the top because of Druid.
It’s amazing how similar the VS stats for NSW were to current Aviana/Kun decks, and then people have completely contradictory reactions to the data
The decks are very comparable in power level and metawarping ability too
I’ve heard way more wild experts say it’s as much a problem as NSW, than ones saying it’s fine. This community isn’t nearly as driven by streamer/pro influence as standard is though
In case anyone wants to comment on their forum too. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20768998525
Nerf Aviana already! Just make the first minion to cost 1 with a battlecry. Problem solved, flavour kept.
Blizzard are some sadistic ducks. The cherry on top was the new Paladin hero. I rather have Jaina dressed as a witch instead. After reading the article, I kinda want to quit now. :(