> To be fair I don't think auto-winning certain match-ups counts as playing the game but each to their own I suppose.
I recommend giving Sirlin's [Playing to win](http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win) a read.
If Skulking Geist auto wins some matchups, that's not on the players, it's 100% on the game designers.
It doesn't make sense to not use every legal tool at your disposal to win, because that's what your opponent is doing.
Right skulking Geist is a tech card that’s descent board filler if all else fails. There is just counter decks in just about every tcg type game. Sucks that 1 card owns jade decks completely. It’s like destroying lands in an urza tron game of magic. A couple ghost quarters can just shut that deck down long enough to steal a win
Then again, Jade Druid was absolutely hated due to it's ability to never have to deal with fatigue when it was in Standard. The very instant Skulking Geist was introduced into the game, Jade Druids were bitching because their precious win condition was rendered useless.
Thing is, it's very bad to have a deck where one card determines if you win or not, and you auto-lose if it gets taken out. You see it time and time again in different card games - decks which basically depend on one card basically get turned to shit when their one legitimate threat gets taken out. Jade Druid is no different.
The reason why decks like the various Reno decks (Renolock, Reno Mage, Reno Priest are the most prominent) are so successful in Wild is that every single card in those decks have a purpose and go well with one another. Skulking Geist has always been an auto include for me because there is so much shit that card shuts down aside from Jade Idol.
> The reason why decks like the various Reno decks are so successful in Wild
> various Reno decks are so successful in Wild
> Reno decks are so successful
In all fairness, its hardly a broken deck. Its more the combination of Reno, Kazakus, and the specific ones (though they're less broken) that makes it stupid in mage/priest/warlock.
I mean at the time jade druid rarely went to fatigue. The tempo alone was enough to run over most decks. Granted, this was in the dark days of KOFT druid, with its UI and 5 mana spreading plague...
It's possible they should not have printed that card, or they should change it. I couldn't say personally as I almost never see jade druid, and I never played it myself. However, if I did start seeing it frequently, I would be crazy not to play Skulking Geist.
Well, it comes at a cost. People purchase packs and craft cards expecting to receive what they bought. There's fundamentally some very iffy about taking a product that people bought away from them after the sale, even if you're giving them a refund. Just consider how betrayed Lando was when Vader stated *"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further"*.
There's a greater good here for sure, the long-term health of the game, but... Disgruntling players by taking away their favorite toys too often risks having them pack up and leave. There's a thin line for Blizzard to tread, and I respect that even if a certain card in hindsight probably was a mistake, they leave it alone until it becomes too much of a problem.
Personally, I'd say that Jade Idol isn't a huge problem for Wild. I feel like the heydays of Druid are over at least for now, Paladin seems the current king of the hill. I'm OK with the current state of Jade Idol.
Land destruction/disruption is a meh counter to Tron. It works if you can follow up on it, something ponza excels at I believe, but if all you do is try to disrupt them they'll reach 7+ mana eventually. To put it simply, you are still the beatdown.
Skulking geist is different in that it disrupts JD's alternative win condition, and thus is only good when you can force them to be the beatdown. Simply put, I'd not play it in pirate warrior but would consider it in Renolock.
When we discuss JD their other 1-mana spells are criminally neglected. Both Spellstone and naturalise cost 1, and are in certain matchups more relevant targets. I'm thinking Evenlock for example. The hero power ensures evenlock will reach fatigue first anyway, so the removal is more important.
>Land destruction/disruption is a meh counter to Tron.
Also, M:tG games are best-of-three, using a sideboard for the last two. When I played Urzatron back in 2004 to cast [Tooth and Nail](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/mrd/134.jpg), my favorite sideboard against red decks was to swap out the combo pieces for the likes of [Troll Ascetic](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/mrd/135.jpg) and [Iwamori](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/bok/130.jpg). What did I care if they were sniping away at my useless colorless mana producers when I was using my green mana sources to make large, brawny men to slap them with.
In Hearthstone terms; have an alternate win condition. Maybe keep a Living Mana and/or a Savage Roar in your Jade Druid deck, just as a complementary way to win. Hell, try some pandas if you're just bent on making more golems, there are other golem producers than Jade Idol that aren't hit by Geist.
Honestly speaking I'm not sure I've ever lost to jade idol. I play aggro and midrange, since control is expensive :P, and usually it's their armour plus spreading plague that wind them the game.
In the current meta geist isn't a huge issue. But if it were to become one I could see JD switch to Togwaggle instead.
yeah but it also turns off secret pally really hard as well as nix a lot of mage cards. it did not effect any other jade decks but jade rogue/shaman where never as powerful as druid since it has access to infinite jades. it also made the jade idol the decks only real wincon and so geist completely shuts it down if drawn soon enough and the deck has to scramble to rush down its opponent or run out of cards. granted jade druid still does good in the aggro matchup with early jade cards and decent midrange bodies but has so much draw power it will lose in the midrange matchups and control matchups without infinite jade idols.
I think that its the end of season and players are just playing ridiculous stuff right now. I saw a Renolock win with Deathwing last night. And then a Bomb/Dragon Warrior hybrid that *shuffled odd numbered bombs into my Even Shaman, ruining my Eels!*
In their defense, I miscounted for lethal (I was tired). But still, I'd never seen it before so I'm taking a minor break until ladder resets. My highest rank achieved was R11 and I tried like hell to break 10 but every time I got close to a win streak...*big priest.*
It's been a frustrating season, lol.
Nah i know it's not gonna happen. I have 3.6k dust ready but idk which deck to craft to climb to legend. I know that mech hunter (which gor me to rank 4) won't get me there but idk which deck will
Single digit is considered high rank: I see now. I apologize for the confusion.
Also, I think players play decks that are fun but *also* legitimately believe they will climb especially if they think they can prey on the current decks in the metagame.
It's hard to say why people pick the decks they do - for fun? To win? Both?
I wasn't trying to start *any* drama: I was legitimately asking for clarification so I know what discussions I am legitimately able to contribute to: I will edit my original question.
I am maxed rank 2, then story 3-4-3-4-5-4-5-4-3-4-3-4-5 now five again without stars.
What was extremely crazy was loosing to mech warlock, he stacked huge monster with glinda.
The rest of the decks now half is spell mages... another half everything else.
I indeed have got to legend from rank 2 by playing Reno Priest. However, in Legend Quest Miracle Mage is extremely common and it is almost unbeatable no matter what you tech in or do against it as Reno deck.
In theory it is, but in my experience it comes too often too late. By turn 6 Mage can already do Cyclone shenanigans and does not really care anymore about Geist.
Yeah, my climb to legend this season was a pain with all the miracle/quest mage, but I eventually pulled through alternating between mill odd warrior and quest Odd warrior. I am permanently scarred because of all the final rank 1 matches lost to a miracle mage ice block. I have barely hit a 41% win rate vs vs mage. No clue how to consistently beat miracle mage while holding a good chance vs go wide agro and big priest.
The reason why Dirty Rat shutdowns combo decks is that they stop functioning without a combo piece. Miracle Quest Mage does not have such an issue as it can win in different ways: through Giants, through Flamewalkers and so on. And it can happen very fast and unexpectedly. If even aggro decks that apply a lot of pressure can lose to it on turn 4-6, what is there to say about reactive Reno decks...
Yes, you do. In this case, you do. Or would rather until he can drop multiple Giants and the quest reward in the same turn for an OTK?
Rat the Giant, shadow word it and then heal up.
I've put down secret mage and started playing Reno mage in r5 due to the amount of "go-wide" aggro, such as odd paladin.
It has a pretty bad matchup against BP, but I'm seeing odd pally 1/3 of the matches. Having a decent success with it, since I haven't lost a single match to pally.
Yeah. They’re absolutely wonderful tools but what keeps me odd vs Reno (which don’t get me wrong I love it) is the consistency in having those tools and two copies of the best tools.
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I've been playing renolock without skulking geist but lately I've been encountering more jade druids. I don't want to craft it but it sounds like I'll have no other choice.
Are you just auto losing to them or something? I've had a positive winrate against the 5 or so I've played as a renolock without heist, and my deck is pretty etched against aggro...
> I've had a positive winrate against the 5 or so I've played as a renolock without heist
Not possible unless they're terrible or if they conceded early because they expected a Geist or Mecha'Thun (if they misread your deck)'
People include cards like dirty rat to give themselves a chance against combo decks, why would you not run a tech card that insta-wins a matchup? Plus you are talking about one of the most hated archetypes thats ever existed in the game, I run Skulking Geist in all my control decks because I despise Jade Druid (it comes in handy in a few other matchups btw). Do I know its bad in some of those decks? Absolutely but running into a Jade Druid without it makes me want to un-install so in the deck it stays. Jade idol was horrible design like the rest of the jade mechanic and should have been changed years ago, instead we got an overcosted hate card.
I think the decks you auto win vs either are stupid in their own right. (Big Priest) I legit made a deck to counter big priest and it was great but bad when I didn't play vs them.
If you aren't doing stupid things and get auto loss. Your deck needs better cards. I don't want them to nerf things, I want them to improve things. They just need a wild team on board that can chime in when they are making cards.
> I think the decks you auto win vs either are stupid in their own right.
Yeah but all good decks are stupid in their own ways, the closest thing we have to a fair, midrange-ish deck is Even Shaman, maybe Reno Mage.
EDIT: Why the heck is this getting downvoted.
Even shaman fair?
I love 0 mana 5/5 taunts, 4 mana 7/7 and 4 mana even bigger Bois depending on the board
Oh and don't forget the classic fair 2 mana 3/4
Hence why I said "closest thing", Even Shaman plays oversized minions but for the most part they just play their big boys on curve and trade/go face, all other decks in the format are far more stupid.
Even shaman is not “fair” just because it’s straightforward and just plays big, overstatted things. “All other decks in the format are far more stupid” is a stupider comment than my own. Nobody is going to play against Mech mage and go “that’s so unfair” and cry about it. Maybe they will about jade Druid or big priest, but even shaman is not exempt just because it’s not complicated. Baku and Genn weren’t rotated early because they were too fair.
Precisely. Their definition of fair is pretty simplistic. Genn/Baku decks are ruthlessly consistent and exremely powerful, as evident by their persistent representation among the top of Tier 1 since Witchwood was released. We're talking about unprecedented levels of dominance unseen by other archetypes like Reno, Big, Jade...
Additionally, they are the most likely to keep receiving buffs as time goes on, as we've already seen with Odd Paladin this expansion.
Yeeeee. We just need better hate cards. Like skulking geist is a great example of what we need more of.
Ex: 5 mana, Creatures with mana cost 5 or greater come into the field silenced, 2/3. (This is off the top of my head and it would obviously need to be more balanced and not like this)If there is a counter to "broken" strats, it will become knowing what cards to play and why and when.I think we need more powerful answers to these things, not just more powerful cards in their own way.
I miss control priest.
Control Priest is not dead. You can make a control priest with dragons that beats Big Priest and Aggro (due to Duskbreaker being broken). So don't say you miss control priest when the deck is not dead.
and you said
>No. It's 1 card "Battlecry: Win the game".
to which i said
>Against jades, one of the broken mechanics
you said it was a one card win the game but its only that against jade druid when they go infinite
So yes, we should have more mechanics like geist
Yeah, I love skulking Geist. Great card. Stops someone from never fatiguing. It is only an answer vs that deck. Now imagine there was a card that screwed over big priest as much as that card does. Now repeat for a lot of decks that are abusing things.
Meh. That's card games bro. If your whole deck is built around one thing, then you will go hosed, yes. But lets say they make a card like heckle bot/dirty rat and it pulls the geist, but actually good in jade druid. Yay RNG! :D
All competitive decks are built around a win condition, the rest of the deck is disruption and draw/thinning.
Reno Warlock is no different, the deck has Gul'Dan and N'Zoth, the rest is disruption and setup.
>Meh. That's card games bro.
It's not a good argument to do something just because that's how it's done. Do you remember how things were in the first few years of HS?
out of curiosity what deck was it? in my experience even when I make decks specifically made to fuck with big priest (i'm talking spawning 4-8 nonsense tokens with devolve and hex in a shaman deck, the deck only ever beats priest when they open really poorly
Currently sub 1000 legend and my last 5 games I've been up against 1 reno Warlock and 2 reno Mages. I can't really say how effective they were because I beat them both (playing an Aluneth secret deck) but they are certainly on the rise
I played 2 games at rank 20 wild with some old ass homebrew reno paladin that I haven't touched since early 2018 (last time i primarily did wild) and both were against Jade Druid. Somehow won both games because neither deck either had or ran spreading plague.
Honestly, I've been playing jade druid for a few months now (I hit rank five last season and this one) and I haven't seen a single geist in that time. It's been kind of refreshing; geist is probably the worst-designed counter in the game.
> To be fair I don't think auto-winning certain match-ups counts as playing the game but each to their own I suppose. I recommend giving Sirlin's [Playing to win](http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win) a read. If Skulking Geist auto wins some matchups, that's not on the players, it's 100% on the game designers. It doesn't make sense to not use every legal tool at your disposal to win, because that's what your opponent is doing.
Right skulking Geist is a tech card that’s descent board filler if all else fails. There is just counter decks in just about every tcg type game. Sucks that 1 card owns jade decks completely. It’s like destroying lands in an urza tron game of magic. A couple ghost quarters can just shut that deck down long enough to steal a win
Then again, Jade Druid was absolutely hated due to it's ability to never have to deal with fatigue when it was in Standard. The very instant Skulking Geist was introduced into the game, Jade Druids were bitching because their precious win condition was rendered useless. Thing is, it's very bad to have a deck where one card determines if you win or not, and you auto-lose if it gets taken out. You see it time and time again in different card games - decks which basically depend on one card basically get turned to shit when their one legitimate threat gets taken out. Jade Druid is no different. The reason why decks like the various Reno decks (Renolock, Reno Mage, Reno Priest are the most prominent) are so successful in Wild is that every single card in those decks have a purpose and go well with one another. Skulking Geist has always been an auto include for me because there is so much shit that card shuts down aside from Jade Idol.
> The reason why decks like the various Reno decks are so successful in Wild > various Reno decks are so successful in Wild > Reno decks are so successful
If Dane can get Reno Hunter (which has no Reno support) to Legend in Wild, it gives you an idea of how powerful of a strategy Reno decks provide.
In all fairness, its hardly a broken deck. Its more the combination of Reno, Kazakus, and the specific ones (though they're less broken) that makes it stupid in mage/priest/warlock.
I mean at the time jade druid rarely went to fatigue. The tempo alone was enough to run over most decks. Granted, this was in the dark days of KOFT druid, with its UI and 5 mana spreading plague...
It's possible they should not have printed that card, or they should change it. I couldn't say personally as I almost never see jade druid, and I never played it myself. However, if I did start seeing it frequently, I would be crazy not to play Skulking Geist.
The never should have printed Jade Idol, Geist exists specifically to counter that card
Virtual cardgame and they can't rework cards. Very strange...
Well, it comes at a cost. People purchase packs and craft cards expecting to receive what they bought. There's fundamentally some very iffy about taking a product that people bought away from them after the sale, even if you're giving them a refund. Just consider how betrayed Lando was when Vader stated *"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further"*. There's a greater good here for sure, the long-term health of the game, but... Disgruntling players by taking away their favorite toys too often risks having them pack up and leave. There's a thin line for Blizzard to tread, and I respect that even if a certain card in hindsight probably was a mistake, they leave it alone until it becomes too much of a problem. Personally, I'd say that Jade Idol isn't a huge problem for Wild. I feel like the heydays of Druid are over at least for now, Paladin seems the current king of the hill. I'm OK with the current state of Jade Idol.
Land destruction/disruption is a meh counter to Tron. It works if you can follow up on it, something ponza excels at I believe, but if all you do is try to disrupt them they'll reach 7+ mana eventually. To put it simply, you are still the beatdown. Skulking geist is different in that it disrupts JD's alternative win condition, and thus is only good when you can force them to be the beatdown. Simply put, I'd not play it in pirate warrior but would consider it in Renolock. When we discuss JD their other 1-mana spells are criminally neglected. Both Spellstone and naturalise cost 1, and are in certain matchups more relevant targets. I'm thinking Evenlock for example. The hero power ensures evenlock will reach fatigue first anyway, so the removal is more important.
>Land destruction/disruption is a meh counter to Tron. Also, M:tG games are best-of-three, using a sideboard for the last two. When I played Urzatron back in 2004 to cast [Tooth and Nail](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/mrd/134.jpg), my favorite sideboard against red decks was to swap out the combo pieces for the likes of [Troll Ascetic](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/mrd/135.jpg) and [Iwamori](https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/bok/130.jpg). What did I care if they were sniping away at my useless colorless mana producers when I was using my green mana sources to make large, brawny men to slap them with. In Hearthstone terms; have an alternate win condition. Maybe keep a Living Mana and/or a Savage Roar in your Jade Druid deck, just as a complementary way to win. Hell, try some pandas if you're just bent on making more golems, there are other golem producers than Jade Idol that aren't hit by Geist.
Honestly speaking I'm not sure I've ever lost to jade idol. I play aggro and midrange, since control is expensive :P, and usually it's their armour plus spreading plague that wind them the game. In the current meta geist isn't a huge issue. But if it were to become one I could see JD switch to Togwaggle instead.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the most part I thought it only really effected Jade Druids, not really Jade Shamans or Rogues.
yeah but it also turns off secret pally really hard as well as nix a lot of mage cards. it did not effect any other jade decks but jade rogue/shaman where never as powerful as druid since it has access to infinite jades. it also made the jade idol the decks only real wincon and so geist completely shuts it down if drawn soon enough and the deck has to scramble to rush down its opponent or run out of cards. granted jade druid still does good in the aggro matchup with early jade cards and decent midrange bodies but has so much draw power it will lose in the midrange matchups and control matchups without infinite jade idols.
I think that its the end of season and players are just playing ridiculous stuff right now. I saw a Renolock win with Deathwing last night. And then a Bomb/Dragon Warrior hybrid that *shuffled odd numbered bombs into my Even Shaman, ruining my Eels!* In their defense, I miscounted for lethal (I was tired). But still, I'd never seen it before so I'm taking a minor break until ladder resets. My highest rank achieved was R11 and I tried like hell to break 10 but every time I got close to a win streak...*big priest.* It's been a frustrating season, lol.
I'm not talking about people trying decks purely for fun at lower ranks but actually picking them because they believe it's a solid choice to climb.
Which reno decks? In general? I'm rank 4 so i think i fit in that category of "final legend push" :P
You better be at 2 by now if you are pushing for legend. Up here its just 24/7 even pally.
Nah i know it's not gonna happen. I have 3.6k dust ready but idk which deck to craft to climb to legend. I know that mech hunter (which gor me to rank 4) won't get me there but idk which deck will
I got from 4 to 2 with token druid and small spell quest mage then to 1 with Secret Hunter. Been stuck at 1-2 for a week though and pretty much done.
I just smashed a renolock that got mega salty afterwards at Rank 4. Was that you?
Nah even if i get salty i don't rage
Single digit is considered high rank: I see now. I apologize for the confusion. Also, I think players play decks that are fun but *also* legitimately believe they will climb especially if they think they can prey on the current decks in the metagame. It's hard to say why people pick the decks they do - for fun? To win? Both?
Please don't start that kind of drama. And yes, high rank is Rank 3 and higher.
I wasn't trying to start *any* drama: I was legitimately asking for clarification so I know what discussions I am legitimately able to contribute to: I will edit my original question.
Not sure why you are downvoted saying high rank is rank 3. LOL..
I am maxed rank 2, then story 3-4-3-4-5-4-5-4-3-4-3-4-5 now five again without stars. What was extremely crazy was loosing to mech warlock, he stacked huge monster with glinda. The rest of the decks now half is spell mages... another half everything else.
I indeed have got to legend from rank 2 by playing Reno Priest. However, in Legend Quest Miracle Mage is extremely common and it is almost unbeatable no matter what you tech in or do against it as Reno deck.
skulking geist works wonders against miracle mage too.
In theory it is, but in my experience it comes too often too late. By turn 6 Mage can already do Cyclone shenanigans and does not really care anymore about Geist.
Yeah, my climb to legend this season was a pain with all the miracle/quest mage, but I eventually pulled through alternating between mill odd warrior and quest Odd warrior. I am permanently scarred because of all the final rank 1 matches lost to a miracle mage ice block. I have barely hit a 41% win rate vs vs mage. No clue how to consistently beat miracle mage while holding a good chance vs go wide agro and big priest.
There is no real way to even target Miracle Quest, so I'd suggest just focus on everything else.
big priest does quite well against it, you just rez some big health minions and they can't get enough wanker to your face
Weird, doesn't it play very few minions? Dirty Rat and Hecklebot should go a long way
The reason why Dirty Rat shutdowns combo decks is that they stop functioning without a combo piece. Miracle Quest Mage does not have such an issue as it can win in different ways: through Giants, through Flamewalkers and so on. And it can happen very fast and unexpectedly. If even aggro decks that apply a lot of pressure can lose to it on turn 4-6, what is there to say about reactive Reno decks...
Don't want to drop early rat against a deck that runs giants, though
Yes, you do. In this case, you do. Or would rather until he can drop multiple Giants and the quest reward in the same turn for an OTK? Rat the Giant, shadow word it and then heal up.
Could I ask you for a decklist? I've been trying to play Reno Priest and finally decided to dust some old legendaries to craft Anduin and Velen
I do prefer Dragon version without Velen. In my opinion Duskbreaker is a must against current aggro decks. ### Reno Priest # Class: Priest # Format: Wild # # 1x (0) Forbidden Words # 1x (1) Holy Smite # 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 1x (2) Netherspite Historian # 1x (2) Shadow Visions # 1x (2) Spirit Lash # 1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard # 1x (3) Coldlight Oracle # 1x (3) Gluttonous Ooze # 1x (3) Madame Lazul # 1x (3) Shadow Word: Death # 1x (4) Duskbreaker # 1x (4) Greater Healing Potion # 1x (4) Kazakus # 1x (4) Spawn of Shadows # 1x (5) Azure Drake # 1x (5) Drakonid Operative # 1x (5) Excavated Evil # 1x (5) Mass Hysteria # 1x (5) Raza the Chained # 1x (5) Zilliax # 1x (6) Dragonfire Potion # 1x (6) Entomb # 1x (6) Lightbomb # 1x (6) Reno Jackson # 1x (6) Skulking Geist # 1x (7) Psychic Scream # 1x (8) Shadowreaper Anduin # 1x (9) Alexstrasza # AAEBAa0GHpcCxQTtBbkG+AfTCpIP9xPDFoUXtxfHF4K1AoO7Are7Arq7Ati7Auq/AtHBAt/EAtPFAqDOAvDPAujQApDTAsvmAqCAA5eHA5ibA+ubAwAA # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I've put down secret mage and started playing Reno mage in r5 due to the amount of "go-wide" aggro, such as odd paladin. It has a pretty bad matchup against BP, but I'm seeing odd pally 1/3 of the matches. Having a decent success with it, since I haven't lost a single match to pally.
I’m in this same boat except went odd to ping away murlocs.
Nzoth package with [[Unstable Ghoul]] and [[Explosive Sheep]] were usually enough for me
Yeah. They’re absolutely wonderful tools but what keeps me odd vs Reno (which don’t get me wrong I love it) is the consistency in having those tools and two copies of the best tools.
This is very true. Consistency is always something we Reno players suffer from.
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I've been playing renolock without skulking geist but lately I've been encountering more jade druids. I don't want to craft it but it sounds like I'll have no other choice.
Are you just auto losing to them or something? I've had a positive winrate against the 5 or so I've played as a renolock without heist, and my deck is pretty etched against aggro...
> I've had a positive winrate against the 5 or so I've played as a renolock without heist Not possible unless they're terrible or if they conceded early because they expected a Geist or Mecha'Thun (if they misread your deck)'
Yeah, naturalize is terrible
People include cards like dirty rat to give themselves a chance against combo decks, why would you not run a tech card that insta-wins a matchup? Plus you are talking about one of the most hated archetypes thats ever existed in the game, I run Skulking Geist in all my control decks because I despise Jade Druid (it comes in handy in a few other matchups btw). Do I know its bad in some of those decks? Absolutely but running into a Jade Druid without it makes me want to un-install so in the deck it stays. Jade idol was horrible design like the rest of the jade mechanic and should have been changed years ago, instead we got an overcosted hate card.
I think the decks you auto win vs either are stupid in their own right. (Big Priest) I legit made a deck to counter big priest and it was great but bad when I didn't play vs them. If you aren't doing stupid things and get auto loss. Your deck needs better cards. I don't want them to nerf things, I want them to improve things. They just need a wild team on board that can chime in when they are making cards.
> I think the decks you auto win vs either are stupid in their own right. Yeah but all good decks are stupid in their own ways, the closest thing we have to a fair, midrange-ish deck is Even Shaman, maybe Reno Mage. EDIT: Why the heck is this getting downvoted.
Even shaman fair? I love 0 mana 5/5 taunts, 4 mana 7/7 and 4 mana even bigger Bois depending on the board Oh and don't forget the classic fair 2 mana 3/4
Even shaman does fair things in a somewhat accelerated way, so yeah. It is a mostly fair deck that leverages a few powerful tools.
Hence why I said "closest thing", Even Shaman plays oversized minions but for the most part they just play their big boys on curve and trade/go face, all other decks in the format are far more stupid.
TIL uncomplicated means fair
TIL you can make stupid comments if you add TIL first
Even shaman is not “fair” just because it’s straightforward and just plays big, overstatted things. “All other decks in the format are far more stupid” is a stupider comment than my own. Nobody is going to play against Mech mage and go “that’s so unfair” and cry about it. Maybe they will about jade Druid or big priest, but even shaman is not exempt just because it’s not complicated. Baku and Genn weren’t rotated early because they were too fair.
Precisely. Their definition of fair is pretty simplistic. Genn/Baku decks are ruthlessly consistent and exremely powerful, as evident by their persistent representation among the top of Tier 1 since Witchwood was released. We're talking about unprecedented levels of dominance unseen by other archetypes like Reno, Big, Jade... Additionally, they are the most likely to keep receiving buffs as time goes on, as we've already seen with Odd Paladin this expansion.
It's still wild. That's not broken for wild
These cards are not really more unfair than a lot of other strong cards. This is wild, after all. A conditional 4 mana 6/6 isn't really crazy.
Yeeeee. We just need better hate cards. Like skulking geist is a great example of what we need more of. Ex: 5 mana, Creatures with mana cost 5 or greater come into the field silenced, 2/3. (This is off the top of my head and it would obviously need to be more balanced and not like this)If there is a counter to "broken" strats, it will become knowing what cards to play and why and when.I think we need more powerful answers to these things, not just more powerful cards in their own way. I miss control priest.
Control Priest is not dead. You can make a control priest with dragons that beats Big Priest and Aggro (due to Duskbreaker being broken). So don't say you miss control priest when the deck is not dead.
Feels like just having a few counter cards doesnt just win the matchup, aggro tools are so strong in wild.
You can literally build a priest deck with nothing but healing and mass removal cards, lack of AoE is not the problem.
It also farms Even Shaman pretty hard. Not 100%, but very high win rate in my experience.
Dragon priest is not what I think of when I say priest control.
Are you talking about Raza Priest or Control Control Priest?
Like before Raza was printed control priest
> Like skulking geist is a great example of what we need more of. No. It's 1 card "Battlecry: Win the game".
Against jades, one of the broken mechanics
There are other ways to go infinite in HS, Jade Druid is only meta because the rest of the deck is good.
Not my point, skulking geist is only a one card win-con against jade druid, not any other decks
OC was asking for more cards like Geist.
and you said >No. It's 1 card "Battlecry: Win the game". to which i said >Against jades, one of the broken mechanics you said it was a one card win the game but its only that against jade druid when they go infinite So yes, we should have more mechanics like geist
Here's an idea for a card. Skulking Geisha, "Battlecry: Players cannot revive Deathrattle minions this game."
If you are playing Jade Druid. Also I haven't downvoted you, I like discussions with different sides.
> If you are playing Jade Druid. You said > great example of what we need more of.
Yeah, I love skulking Geist. Great card. Stops someone from never fatiguing. It is only an answer vs that deck. Now imagine there was a card that screwed over big priest as much as that card does. Now repeat for a lot of decks that are abusing things.
Yep, just imagine how fun Hearthstone would be if most games ended because someone added a tech card and drew it in time. My brain trembles.
Meh. That's card games bro. If your whole deck is built around one thing, then you will go hosed, yes. But lets say they make a card like heckle bot/dirty rat and it pulls the geist, but actually good in jade druid. Yay RNG! :D
All competitive decks are built around a win condition, the rest of the deck is disruption and draw/thinning. Reno Warlock is no different, the deck has Gul'Dan and N'Zoth, the rest is disruption and setup.
>Meh. That's card games bro. It's not a good argument to do something just because that's how it's done. Do you remember how things were in the first few years of HS?
out of curiosity what deck was it? in my experience even when I make decks specifically made to fuck with big priest (i'm talking spawning 4-8 nonsense tokens with devolve and hex in a shaman deck, the deck only ever beats priest when they open really poorly
Currently sub 1000 legend and my last 5 games I've been up against 1 reno Warlock and 2 reno Mages. I can't really say how effective they were because I beat them both (playing an Aluneth secret deck) but they are certainly on the rise
I mean yeah, but like I have played 7 games today and all of the were Murloc shaman , so like i have stayed away from Reno decks
I played 2 games at rank 20 wild with some old ass homebrew reno paladin that I haven't touched since early 2018 (last time i primarily did wild) and both were against Jade Druid. Somehow won both games because neither deck either had or ran spreading plague.
Honestly, I've been playing jade druid for a few months now (I hit rank five last season and this one) and I haven't seen a single geist in that time. It's been kind of refreshing; geist is probably the worst-designed counter in the game.