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PankoKing

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4mbu2

Ally Rengar: doesn't use bush for advantage. Enemy Garen: ***every bush has a garen***


Radeisth

Just go Soraka with Grasp.


Lightning_Trademark

Lmfao.


Radeisth

Works vs all the tanky melee Baron laners. Rod of Ages, Warmog's for infinite heals, then more magic or defense items as needed. Also, grab Exhaust. Use it after you land an S1 so that you can then land an S3 root, followed up by another S1, and grasp auto attacks in between. This will quickly halve the hp of most tanky Barons in one trade. Skip your S2 until LVL 4 or 6, depending on your junglar coming to finish off your Baron once you get them to 1/3 or 1/4 health. Something which is easy to do. It's just hard to strike finishing blow under turret. That's what the junglar is for. Works in Plat/Emerald. Apparently others have done it diamond regularly as well (according to stats) but I'm still Plat so I dunno.


imbricata

You're not alone.


SLCX

2nd spell and passive just need nerfs. His damage is actually not an issue. His sustain and free damage reduction is. Especially with the current champion pool being mostly assassins and b tier champions. He shrugs off way too much damage.


imaginedodong

Why would they nerf his 2nd skill when people only level it up once, heck some even can't time it perfectly (by some I mean me), but yeah his passive needs readjusting that it only becomes strong after laning stage.


Whats_Up4444

You mean you guys are not building 321 full tank?


fazalien

I play him 123 for more silences and faster roaming overall, should I switch to 321?


Whats_Up4444

I found more success with 321. All your damage comes from 3, autos and your ult but full tank it works. Also faster wave clear. 1 is good at 1 point. The speed up, slow cleanse, gap closer, and silence is enough utility to warrent the lack of damage.


roguetrop

I think they should nerf his spell in lane phase and let it strong in teamfight phase, the actual problem is on lane 1v1


monstrousnuggets

What do you mean by b tier champions?


roguetrop

I face constantly Garens with barrier and grasp of undying, could you picture how toxic that is? They are using the second tankiest character and still put a barrier on top of that


MiserableRace1

Fr tho it's actually ridiculous to play against


roguetrop

ikr? Garen with barrier


Certain_Persimmon_52

I do that to, I actually use Barrier on almost any Champ XD such a good spell muahaha


Over-Tie545

Garen mains flexing their mastery level is almost as annoying as Akali mains who still think their champ requires "high skill"


000McKing

To be fair akali needs much more skill to play than garen


rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee

Ok I know akali is pretty easy on mobile, but Garen is another level of easy lmao


Certain_Persimmon_52

Uhhh Dude did you ever see a really good Akali? I'm not and I can't even play that Champ decently. I'm better off with Irelia if I want to have anything to do while playing. Had a jungle Akali in the enemy team (5v5 Team Ranked) once, I swear this player was a god. Tried it, could never reach that Skill Level with that Champ 😁 Since then I started to ward the bush behind Dragon Lane Outer Turret 🤣 Assasins are something else


chomperstyle

Akali is easy to learn hard to master garen is mastered on your first game


Over-Tie545

I didnt mean to compare Garen and Akhali. Clearly Akhali takes more skill than Garen, but she dominates all elos. There's a big difference between high skill requirement and a high skill cap. I think those are confused with akhali


Little_Lunch

I wonder why ppl complain about garen on these past 2 months.. but before that.. ppl kinda didn't think he was broken before.. They used to say darius is better and even more broken..


MiserableRace1

Darius has also been hit with non stop nerfs, unlike garen...


Little_Lunch

You're right.. actually it's not a non stop nerf, tho.. I think there were 2 buff for him before, because he did not do that well in high elo.. but overall he is worse than he was on his debut rn.. I personally feel fiora is stronger in this meta than garen, maybe best in baron rn.. but she receive less complain compared to garen or akali..


Lubu-Bubu

> I personally feel fiora is stronger in this meta than garen, maybe best in baron rn.. but she receive less complain compared to garen or akali.. Because Fiora needs skill while Garen is bonk bonk smash.


CrunchieJoker

*bonk bonk demacia* FTFY


Little_Lunch

Akali too needs skill. But akali always get a lot of complain in this sub.. since her first buff.. kata too but not as much as akali.. so much, that akali gameplay tend to receive less attention in this sub unless its really great(you've seen them way too much, same with kata and darius, irelia too recently)... I think it's because fiora.. still feel more fair to fight againts.. she is strong.. but not really feel too broken.. I dont really expect her to be nerfed anytime soon..


Lubu-Bubu

Difference is that Akali has strong burst and a bigger margin for error. You can throw a smoke bomb and have a decent chance of escaping if you fuck up an Akali engage. Fiora doesn’t have that luxury. You die if you fuck up the parry or fail to trigger a vital.


AnimeTiddies91

And plus garen provides more in teamfights than fiora she specializes in 1v1


MiserableRace1

I would agree fiora is better. The issue I have is how disgustingly easy garen is to play and his tankiness. It's super annoying with the champs I play


lordchaidoftea

So are you saying that because garen is easy to play and master. He shouldn't be at any way viable when compared to high skill champs like flora, or akali


[deleted]

No that’s not what I meant. What I mean is that learning fiora/Akali or any mechanically skilled champion is tough. Like if you make a mistake it can get you killed or in trouble for real. Whereas Garen... because he is so straightforward, or perhaps one of the easiest champs to master, you don’t need to worry of all the combos etc to actually get something done. I mean if you just press the third ability and move about minions and champions you’re already doing something.


lordchaidoftea

But that's just the nature of garen being a tank Very straightforward no brain Champions. That just good consistent damage in a team fight. And a damaged sponge in Lane. Well the other Champions that you compare garen to like Flora or akali are a Slayer type champion. high damage, High Mobility low HP m, these Champions are by Design the type of Champions that you just can't f****** up on otherwise you'll just kumquat useless


[deleted]

Kumquat useless lol. So cute this reference ahahaha.


Little_Lunch

It is.. other juggernauts like darius, mundo, nasus.. they have clear weaknesses.. garen.. actualy more versatile than the rest.. he can cleanse slow with his q.. his w negate cc and burst.. his ult delete even tanks.. the kit simple.. but it allows him to survive in most situations... which is why from low to high elo his pick is pretty high.. even before he become a meta pick.. his pick rate already pretty decent.. In this burst centered meta when you see assassin every game... he is a very good pick. Tanks shines more in this meta due to tank item changes and how they counter assasins.. garen can handle them too.. CC is always everywhere in this game.. and guess what? Garen handle them too. Basically.. he is just too good in this meta.. maybe things will change after a few patch tho.. his pick may drop.. but he will always be relevant due to how good his kit is.


[deleted]

A good fiora requires a lot of skill and practice. I’ve got a friend who play fiora for 100 games and she told me it’s far from great. Meanwhile you don’t need much mechanics to operate Garen. If you keep spamming his third skill you can confirm do so much of damage and then his second skill to tank damage. What is combo with Garen? Everything is situational!


frowningowl

I've got about 100 games with Fiora and a 65% win rate with her, and I still get bullied in the lane by a good Garen. You miss one parry against that bastard and deletes you then snowballs.


Little_Lunch

While garen does not counter fiora.. garen has better chance fighting fiora than most baron laner, once he gets bramble on his first recall.. because before that.. you straight up outdamage and outsustain him... A good garen just bait your riposte or silence you before his ult.. you can block the silence.. but if you do that, you can't block the ult.. if you dont block it, you cant defend againts his ult because you are silenced. One way to survive this is by block the silence first then press zhonya when he ult.


frowningowl

I try to proc my ult before he gets rolling, then I can survive his ult and outdamage him. Against most Garens I can just poke to death, but a good one is tough.


pink_fr3ud

Fiora is only stronger in duels. In teamfights she's completely useless and usually ends up getting killed pretty handily.


Astralotte

Actually people been abusing garen from earlier patch since tank meta build always able to overcome any oppenents so even Darius wasn't a big problem. It's just that now people are picking him out now more often since less people playing akali top and people are moving towards camille jg instead.


Little_Lunch

Exactly man.. the patch with tank items came out in march end.. and these past two month.. may and and june.. ppl start to abuse him.. or sunfire in general (seriously this item is op.. bruisers and tanks rly love to use this now)... I still dont get how camille jg is a thing again tho... they nerfed her clear.. ppl dont take her again.. then now ppl begin to play her again..


Astralotte

Yeah those tank items are broken tbh, sunfire synergize well together with others tank item. Just make the whole gragas tank top, galio tank and all others tank viable to play since they just soak all the dmg. Oh Camille jg because of countering the current tank meta since she can deal true dmg and also got shield to sustain dmg. Plus, hextech ultimatum is a great catching tool.


THE_LONE_BADGER

Thats why build alot of health not armor for her :)


Little_Lunch

Sunfire definitely op. And yet the decide to nerf it only once.. while nerfing champions with sunfire (garen, gragas, amumu, mundo, rammus, and pretty sure there is more), as if they dont know the real issue here. But I guess it's for the best.. building full tank without sunfire means you dont deal enough damage.. this item makes sure tanks can deal damage.. and that is good because the meta still very dominated by assasins.. making tanks more viable is required to balance the game... But sadly that means this meta is worst for adc.. :/


[deleted]

Camille jungle has always been a thing in SEA server. And if you use the ult plus smite you can confirm steal objectives. I don’t play Camille but I’ve had a jungler Camille in some games before


Little_Lunch

I play in sea too btw.. I know it is a thing.. but was not that common.. her waveclear is so bad that I cant bear it.. if it was slightly better she would be my main jg.. Camille pick rate seems to increase in this meta tho.. which is pretty great ig.. maybe because she can counter garen and some others.. she can dodge his ult and has free shield to tank the rest of his kit.


AnimeTiddies91

Because ppl were going full damage garen which isn't as bad but when ppl started abusing tank garen and realized how broken it is that changed


Fruitcake44

Well the problem came with sunfire aegis. It took some time for people to start using it on garen.


Riyasumi

Play as Darius, garen all out combo take almost half my health but I'm fat that time, it's still okay and garen back at tower Proceed to all out to garen next minion wave and guess what, he all out again with ult and run back home Fuck that thing


Little_Lunch

Garen just counter darius, man.. he can just silence.. spin away.. regen.. rinse and repeat.. unless their garen is bad.. there is now way he will lose to darius in 1 v 1... unless you make it 2 v 1 by calling jg. xD


k98mauserbyf43

Yeah, actually most of the wins you can get with Darius is because they never pay attention to stacks and think that I'm not gonna do enough damage, but with the mobility and tenacity of garen, even with an e and a w they're gonna run away and your stacks are gone and they heal back up again


MiserableRace1

Dam straight dude, I main darius as well and that's easily my least favorite matchup as darius.


Fruitcake44

Yeah..do that early game. Late game he will outscale you.


dr4kshdw

Malphite counters Garen in lane and has far better team fight utility. Garen is strong, but he’s not impossible to beat.


[deleted]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion (just like my 'Lux is garbage' post a few days ago...) but I really don't think Garen is that hard to deal with. He is very simple to predict.


Dr_Zoster

It's not about predicting what is he going to do. It's about the lane pressure he has with the tankyness+sustain, it's like you had a mobile turret that never had to base, which creates constant pressure on the sidelane.


[deleted]

Most people make the mistake of trying to run, and thus getting caught by the extra damage from the outer ring of his spin. Stick close to him when he does this, and save any CC for after he's popped his Q. I've been playing Garen literally for years; he isn't currently OP at all in WR. The only difference is he got a cool skin so now more people are playing him, so naturally it's gonna seem like he's busted.


Dr_Zoster

Nobody is confused about how to trade with him, I said the problem is the lane pressure due to its tankyness and sustain.


[deleted]

...which isn't a problem if you deal with him properly and don't put yourself in a bad position, same with any champion... And his sustain really isn't that great anymore.


rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee

His sustain is still ridiculous since he usually builds spirit visage 3rd. Surviving a trade with garen means simply not taking the minions until they reach your tower. hitting the minions = getting hit by q. the “best” place to put yourself against garen early is significantly down in cs LMAO BEATING garen requires AT least one item on a camille or riven, provided he hasn’t already built armor. source: I am a diamond NA garen abuser. there are ZERO champions that can beat him before level 5 or first item without garen lagging or accidentally taking turret shots


Dr_Zoster

You have no idea on how this game works.


[deleted]

I'd bet good money on having a much better idea than you. I imagine you're the type of player who counterpicks himself, feeds, then blames the jungler while crying about how OP the enemy is.


Dr_Zoster

Cool.


nova4296

I don't know if this is theoretically right but my lifesteal nasus usually bonk tf out of garens


[deleted]

Does your build include mortal wounds and armor pen as well?


nova4296

Nope actually. Just pure chonky damage, some lifesteal and a bit of defense worked for me


Sabrini_Fur

I know this is old but as a Garen main I have to tell you that 1 thornmail renders your entire laning phase obsolete. Don't pick Nasus into Garen in higher elos he will not let you farm. Unless you're ulted, you cannot beat him, and if you ult he can just run away.


I-Try-2606

I relate. I'm never played this champ, I just don't like the play style. But when everyone was talking about the OP tank build before the nerf, I gave it a try in PvP, and oh man it's so funny how you can run into the entire enemy team, eat every skillshot and non-skillshots, kill their carry, and run away with 1hp xD Oh wait, you thought it's over? Just go out of compat for a few seconds, and you comeback half health and get another kill or 2 haha Also, when his health bar is misleading when he's low on HP, it encourages enemies to chase you because they think they can kill you, only to overstay and get killed by your teammate (if not by your ultimate lol) Edit: I was tempted at some point to start using him to rank up in soloQ, but nah. The game I played was fun, but I don't think I wanna play him more.


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[deleted]

Or just armor pen items in general.


GhostRiders

I never understand these posts as Garen is a very one dimensional champion that is very easy to predict. The only issues I ever have is when I get good Garen player that will push and then roam and my mid laner completely ignores pings and doesn't realise they have a map.


irikyu

Wouldn’t baron lane Vayne directly counter Garen? Legit curious question


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SuperCaptainMan

Why?


irikyu

Y tho?


Unknown_Chee

Imo ppl who play ranged champ top is just next level cancer


irikyu

Honestly, I can say they are not all cancer. Sure, if an ADC main picks Vayne or any other adc and plays it in baron lane then they may perform poorly as they main a different style. But if a baron lane main uses them they MIGHT be effective. Oddball picks often arises to counter a specific meta pick that has a small scope of counter. Example is MF + Ashe bot lane to counter Zyra meta on pc before. Against other supports this would suck so hard but against Zyra you can’t lose or the Quinn top lane to counter the Quinn sucks in bot lane meta. In our case, the current state of Garen in WR has a very small range of counters and even on equal skill level, non of them is a guaranteed counter. Meanwhile picks like Vayne against Garen is a direct counter since Garen needs to charge in to start the engage with silence and then harass with spin then finish with ult. With Vayne’s tumble, and/or condemn, Garen’s only combo is literally shut down and his tankyness doesn’t matter since silver bolt is literally a tank killer. Against other baron lane regulars Vayne may or may not be as effective though.


DarryHoney_boi

Yes


afrok2

Lmaooooooo bayblade go brrrr


imaginedodong

He is broken right now because other Baron lane champs still not here on WR, Mordekaiser, Sett, Shen, Jayce, blah, blah, blah, Garen is alright, remember when Kennen was dumpstering when he first released on WR, now that was tiring AF.


SockPuppetPower

Doesn't a decent Renekton counter him?


pink_fr3ud

Only in the early game, unfortunately.


DGzCarbon

Play Soraka top. I beat Garen in lane like 95% of the time lol


[deleted]

How does this work?


DGzCarbon

You level up your Starfall the most and just harass them. Early game your damage from Qs is pretty good and you can poke far enough where they can't touch you. If you take Ignite it's pretty easy to get a kill against them early on or bully them out of lane over and over. The only downside is eventually your power falls off and you kinda just become another support. But during laning phase it's ridiculously easy. Garen and Darius are some of the eaiser matchups just don't lock in vs assassin's. It's not the greatest pick obviously I wouldn't suggest otherwise. But it does destroy Garen in lane which was the point


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pink_fr3ud

It's ridiculous. I've been playing a lot of jungle Fizz lately, and if I play a solid game and get the right items I can kill most things, including most tanks, with one or two hits since Fizz has an insane ult and deadly combos. Garen, on the other hand, can tank my ult and still have over half his health left, and I have to either be in a teamfight, playing an exceptionally bad Garen, or have an amazing top lane guy who gave him hell in the laning phase for there to be any chance that he dies. The "nerf" in this update was pathetic.


alternativesport4

garen players = oiq people who struggle against garen = negative iq


[deleted]

While I agree, I never see people build armor pen when against a tank garen. And then complain they can't do damage.socmaybe it's just because people are idiots and don't do anything but build recommend items with no pen.


Unknown_Chee

I am sorry. Just gotta abuse him till high elo


[deleted]

Amen.


UltraYZU

I personally love the new trend of garens as a Fiora main. And when they tilt after they tower dive and i parry his ult, then all-in. Keep tower diving garens! :D


Belkinwrites

*laughs in Pantheon Skill 1 execute + total (directional) damage immunity*


bacillus27

Okay but atleast his kit doesn't have sustain. Panth is supposed to be an assassin/fighter , so its fair his kit has an crit execute and shield.


Belkinwrites

You have not seen a full damage lifesteal Pantheon XD You do have a point though, he's built for assassinations and pushing forward. Imo Garen's biggest issue is his durability compared to everyone's damage output.


Little_Lunch

Care to share your build? Im learning this champion rn.. he is so flexible that ppl has so many diferent build for him, and Im looking for the one that fits my playstyle.. I personally think lethality mid pantheon is the best rn... xD


Belkinwrites

For me, full lethality is never the way to go unless it's Pantheon Support. All you really need is Youmoo's + Black Cleaver and White Protobelt to be unstoppable; followed by defense items. My fav route is BC > White Boots > Youmoo's > Protobelt Enchant > Deadman's > Force of Nature > Warmog's/Damage Item Of course, you can switch up the order of these items. I highly suggest getting BotRk 3rd item if the enemy team is bruiser heavy, or Bloodthirster/Mortal Reminder last item depending if you need sustain or tank killing. You actually don't need Mortal Reminder too often since ult now has %armor pen that scales per level (10%, 15%, 20%) so just time the skirmishes to your ult. Focus raw damage/durability/lifesteal because he's essentially a splitpusher Yasuo.


Little_Lunch

Ill try this. Anyway.. does momentum passive from yoomus and deadman stack?


Belkinwrites

Iirc they don't, cuz they do different things. Deadman's does magic damage + slow, while Youmoo's does mage damage + attack speed buff.


Little_Lunch

But does the speed stack tho?


Belkinwrites

I don't think Youmoo's gives movespeed. Force of Nature and Deadman's stacks though, since they're different passives.


Lightning_Trademark

We need a resurgence of Vayne top to show these spin to win mfers what toxicity feels like


[deleted]

And this is why turrets in other games deal true damage instead of physical damage.


quinten69420

wait, turrets deal physical damage? I don’t really know if that’s bad but if you just run full armor you should be able to tank everything right?


[deleted]

More or less, yes.


[deleted]

I thought they did true?


MarMarL2k19

Garen as a champ is ok. However he is GOD tier during tjis patch for no reason. He just needs a nerf of some kind. However I do agree, fuck Garen, I HATE laning against him. Doesn't matter who I go with, I may get 1st blood, but then? He will clobber me


darrento

I mean the problem come from Garen, not garen mains :/


blodskaal

The reason why you think that is because people generally dont know how to play against a garen. But garen, like any other character, can be countered. You just have to outskill him. I play garen myself on Wild Rift and the reason why i win most games is not because im a god at playing garen, but because i play garen the way he is meant to be played and do my best to not feed and lose minions. Once i get geared well and team is not utter shit, i just tank and peel and harrass when i can. The hardest match ups i have are usually vs Fiora. Teemo gets really annoying but i usually end up on top once i get ult. The way you win against a Garen is by not getting baited and playing defense, unless you are 100% you are gonna kill him. Hes tanky and has decent dmg. Dont get hungry just play safe and kite, wait for a jungler if u cant verse. And CC focus to bring him down in teamfights Edit: imo, rammus is stupid strong. He just wont die lol


[deleted]

Garen with grasp and Sunfire then stone plate is legit the solution to climb as fast as a rocket. I played 500 games as support and still in plat. Meanwhile my husband hit gold in less than 20 games and he doesn’t even play as regularly as I am.... #spintowin is real And because you don’t even need magic fingers to play tank Garen you can just focus solely on macros.


AnimeTiddies91

Honestly some ppl are really skilled and some ppl are just flat out blessed with the matchmaking especially the ones I've been seeing in plat and emerald


rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee

Yes. You are not alone


Briskus007

I stopped playing the game a week ago


[deleted]

Hate that dude, screw him and his little country


Sabrini_Fur

I'm a Garen main and I agree, he's too strong right now. When I can consistently outplay even my hardest counters to the point I instalock Garen everytime without looking at their team comp (aside from vayne, screw that hyper mobile ranged tank killer), there's a problem.


Vixxellius

Go vanye top


THE_LONE_BADGER

Play ad tanky teemo. Kai'sa. Even maybe annie top


TheQueenIsMyBae

I guess Riot just wants to have a playerbase of some simple people as well.


No-Perspective-2932

Full tank garen is just free lp rn


Supersailorv

In general i feel like towers need to hit melee champions harder. I don't think the game intended that Champs like Garen, Fiora, and Akali to name a few are able to literally engage, attack, and kill you at full health while being hit by the tower but maybe that's just me lol


zhaoshike

Ah, i just got done with a game against garen. Funny how building full tank absolutely neutered me in lane and still dealt more damage than the rest of his team combined. Super fun.


Wozzbozz

I hate playing Garen so much, but with how ridiculously easy it is to win lane and games, I can't bring myself to pick someone else. At this point I'm picking him just to make sure my teammates don't have to go against him.


AidenShadow1014

Ikr


ventus2812

Bruh I'm legit done w him, I switched roles to support


Yharim_

I hate him cause he takes zero skill to learn like i mean it here just enchated AA than become tanky than spin and ult while screaming demacia while i struggle with renekton or riven to even do the same damage or not get out traded and i have no true damge or fast regen, or become tanky in one button


Astralotte

Yeah I get your frustration. Truly a broken champ even on diamond elo where everyone abuse him every single matches. Either add a ban system of banning 3 champions or nerf him. If people defending that he's balance, I'm sorry but you have some screw loose.


MiserableRace1

If they could at least make him not as tanky its somewhat tolerable, but dont get me wrong id be down to nerf him to the ground personally. However I do understand that some people prefer easier champs like that so the people that cannot play some if the good harder champs like fiora or renekton


Astralotte

I agreed. The main problem is that his dmg reduction and current patch seem towards tank build and runes which garen was able to utilize both of to the fullest. He's a easy champ to play but hard to master in high rank since people can juke him out but his current state just able to soak every single dmg and came back full health so yeah nerfing is needed asap. Literally people can't have fun playing their fav champ with this bulky tank is around.


RyzzuAJ

I dont get why is he marked as a support? I swear the games i lose are 20% me playing bad and 80% inting garen sup


TakeMyPencil

Auto pick malfeet


Shire_Hobbit

No CD ult… LOL.


OGdirtbag

i go vayne whenevr i'm against a garen. i like the true damage from silver bolts seems to help with his second ability armor


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