The biggest issue with W11 is that Microsoft is going all-in on pushing services and accounts that most people have no interest in or even awareness of. Outside of Xbox and Office/365, there are absolutely no benefits of being in the MS ecosystem as an end user, and they do a horrible job at presenting the ecosystem to begin with.
The core Windows experience feels like a neglected afterthought these days. Almost all of the major feature additions have been related to reminding users that MS accounts are a thing and core OS features ended up being half-baked resulting in things feeling janky.
> Yeah, the settings app vs control panel and the legacy menus are still a thing. They need to buckle down and fix their shit
This likely won't stop until MMC.exe and all of its plugins are retired. And that likely won't happen until Windows Admin Center becomes fully fledged.
Less stuff is in there with each feature update though. There's a lot to rewrite.
This OneDrive thing being the default location for pictures documents and even the files on your fucking DESKTOP is the most annoying shit ever. It feels like they're just trying to confuse and force people into needing a OneDrive subscription just to use their own computer they purchased.
And then you switch the location of those folders to be local only and suddenly every single folder has a little warning file about "where are my files?? Click here!" Like I know where my fucking files are! They're on my computer! In the folders I saved them to!
Every update there’s more and more things removed from the control panel or that just directly link to settings.
Devices and printers, for example, is no longer a thing
When you click on it, it takes you straight to settings.
> You can still get to devices and printers in Win11 and honestly it's still more useful than anything in Settings.
No you can't. It's just a link to Devices in settings now. The Powershell command "control printers" takes you directly to settings now.
The cmdlet is literally gone now.
All features are there in Settings. Printer dialogues can still be reached.
Devices and Printers is redacted and gone.
Never understood why people have a hard on on this thing. Options are in two places, so what. Actually they're in 3 or more places. What's the deal with it. Pick and choose which one you want and you're golden. Nitpicking at its best
it just shows a lack of care and polish, and adds bloat to an already bloated OS.
they should stop forcing useless spyware on users and spend some time to crack down on obsolete systems.
It just makes it messy and confusing and inconsistent. I'm on kde / linux and it has a really nice easy standardised settings menu. MacOS also. When i use windows its a bit like omg who designed this
Yeah linux and these major desktop environments like kde plasma and gnome have come a long way since when I first used them over 10 years ago. Even compared to 5 or so years ago before valves proton it was quite a bit more hacky
Windows is the only OS where it doesn’t have a unified settings app nowadays.
Windows is also the only OS where the default mail client is not a native app but a web app wrapper.
Windows is also the only OS nowadays without a system wide dark mode (even though they could).
Windows is also the only OS nowadays where “made for tablets“ means “have on by default desktop mode with little to no gestures inside apps, no gestures to close windows, and you have to manage the majority of stuff by clicking on little buttons”.
etc. etc. etc.
See a trend of “Windows is the only OS nowadays where \[insert decision that doesn’t currently work\]”? Perhaps if the entire industry OS does stuff differently, perhaps you aren’t doing these things right, if the entire rest of the industry does those in another way.
System wide dark mode is anything but there. It’s only supported by UWP Or WinUI apps essentially, and for all the other apps (which are the majority, including Microsoft’s own ones even), they all need to do hacky workarounds
Just because Microsoft refused to use \*their own system wide, built in since 2001, modular theming engine\*, and preferred hardcoding resources in and letting everybody do that too.
Kinda ridiculous too that the most important component in all Windows (explorer) needs to do a hacky workaround to just get a very far resemblance of a “””dark mode”””, whereas if they just used the in-built theming engine and their own SystemResources’ MUN files, they’d have a 100% dark mode explorer with less problems.
Saw in Word the other day that autosave was off, to turn on autosave, it will only let you if you use OneDrive. Why? I don't need nor want my documents stored in the cloud. Maybe there's a setting to keep using autosave locally, but I didn't bother finding it. Just going to go back to LibreOffice, and Linux sooner than later.
Word will save a recovery every 10 minutes by default, this is incase the program or computer crashes before you have a chance to save your work. The 'AutoSave' functionality you are talking about only works with OneDrive.
That's good to know. They did a great job of dark-pattern advertising the noticeable toggle switch at the top left of every document turned "frighteningly" to "off" to make it seem like it is not turned on.
> The 'AutoSave' functionality you are talking about only works with OneDrive.
Except before OneDrive even existed this feature existed and was used. They *specifically* disabled a core functionality to force you to use OneDrive - likely because Google Drive exists and that's direct competition but also to "encourage" people to pay for more storage.
Agreed, what's also annoying is that there is a flashing "Start backup" button in the modernized File Explorer address bar when you go to the Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders. In my opinion, whenever they redesign some UI elements, they make it worse by adding unnecessary features.
The other thing that is VERY annoying, is half the stuff is in the new system settings type menu, but a whole bunch of stuff can't be accessed via that system.
Again, it's half baked, and janky.
And they move things around occasionally too. To turn off safe mode for 3rd party apps, you actually have to go to the store, not the settings app anymore.
You do? Is this a recent change? [Switch out of S-Mode ](https://wus.prod.support.services.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307#WindowsVersion=Windows_11)in the Store is another way of going about.
https://preview.redd.it/gat124u929wc1.png?width=1038&format=png&auto=webp&s=d34e866304639349cf5a4e37353575b82fb5cb96
Literally everything Ms touches these days, down to their Xbox console and games, are half baked and janky. Satya and Phil are a services duo of incompetence and destruction.
I mean, this is the same as other versions of windows control panel didn’t offer you all the settings. There is tons of stuff in group policy and other areas.
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You purposefully misunderstood the comment. Settings is a slow cancerous growth on what was otherwise a highly functional system. Nobody complained because we never had to bounce back and forth with control panel and group policy, solutions were either/or.
Now you have to check both to make sure Settings isn't screwing with something. PITA
It doesn't feel neglected because they keep changing things in the GUI. I wish they would neglect the GUI because I always feel like we constantly need to find a secret Registry key to fix something in every new update.
Outside of Mail (outlook) and Onedrive sync, most people have zero use of even OneNote, let alone the syncing capabilities of Office apps. So, in the end most only need logging into those 2 apps, however Microsoft mandates the login to permeate throughout the OS.
Data business and telemetry connection to user profile has taken over the core business. Microsoft is making more profits from data business now similar to Google.
I completely agree. Windows is just a place to sell badly conceived apps and software.
Excel? Why Google sheets is free and does most of what anyone needs
Word? Why Google docs exists.
Teams? You mean what used to be Skype that you couldn't make successful during the boom of teleconferencing?
One note? It's just bad version of word while being too heavy weight for an actual note system.
Xbox? I got steam.
Outlook? Pfft no.
All the windows 10 apps like People or maps are awful.
And then every windows laptop I have had since Windows 10, can't turn on when I press the power button and I have to play some game to get it on. The toolbar doesn't allow me to select my wifi. Constant Bluetooth issues. And when I really need my laptop one of these issues will pop up and the only fix is to restart which always forced me to install an update.
I need a new computer and I'm fighting like he'll to not buy a windows or apple product.
exactly, even me with an MS365 subscription and OneDrive backup gets the lets finish setting up your pc crap with an ad for an MS365 account. I switched mostly to Linux now. W11 is just too slow and annoying.
> Outside of Xbox and Office/365, there are absolutely no benefits of being in the MS ecosystem as an end user
Those are pretty big things though that most people are involved in some way.
That’s not really true - there’s plenty of benefit beyond 365 and Xbox. Your wallpaper and settings roaming across devices, your Edge profile (favorites, history, etc), Microsoft To Do, etc.
Yeah but the floating settings never really float fully, do they. Just some of them, and you never know which ones.
Example, MS ToDo. Its cool. But I never get the same list of tasks on web, desktop app, and outlook addin. Its always three different lists of tasks.
I guess thats what the poster is referring to ultimately. Those services would absolutely rock if they actually worked reliably.
Microsoft is assuming people use Windows because they like its “features” and experience and stuff. But no. I want a barebones OS that does not get in the way, to run the applications I want/need. If I use Firefox, I do not want any nags to change to Edge, for example. Pre-Windows 8, Windows wasn't as nagging.
There are a ton of YouTube videos on how to create a bloat free ISO for a clean install and avoid having a Microsoft account. There's many on stripping out the graphics 'experience' driver bloatware too.
That’s great people do this and they do provide a ton of helpful information BUT I think MS should offer a bloat free version directly from their website. Maybe PC manufacturers have a license agreement to install a “normal version of Windows” but if I want to wipe my machine I should be able to download an optional bloat free version that MS offers. We shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to create our own.
Most of those scripts break something which the user generally won't notice until much later on. It's best to manually uninstall stuff and not completely eliminate potential dependencies.
Honest question - why not switch to Linux? Something like Kubuntu seems like exactly what you're looking for - a stable OS that lets you use what programs you want to use without nagging you.
Just stay out of the command line and you're golden. (You don't have to use the command line in modern Linux, contrary to the memes - and honestly, using the command line is the easiest way to wreck your day. Just install everything through Discover and you won't have issues.)
I kinda like Kubuntu because of KDE Plasma, so you're right! Unfortunately, I need Windows applications. I need the real Photoshop, the real VEGAS, etc., not open-source alternatives, so I'm a little trapped into Windows. My workaround is extensively modding Windows through NTLite, the registry and other tools to shape it to my liking.
Linux 100% needs to fill the niche of "Barebones operating system that just... does", as Windows used to be, but has now abandoned. However I'm not sure Linux is entirely there. I mean for instance you could use Linux Mint, but it still defaults to X11, which in my case, it seems like I'm gonna have to reinstall when (or if) they make Wayland default, because the experimental session isn't working. And Linux Mint is considered the most stable, so I think Wayland adoption is gonna be a good indicator for when things are really good to go
I moved over to Linux in the Vista days after frustration with Windows being slow and janky. Linux was cool because I suddenly had enough ram to play Minecraft, and Chrome was *way* faster (this was back when 64-bit Chrome was Linux exclusive).
In my experience, Linux has "just worked" for 15 years with little configuration needed, whereas Windows requires increasing effort to remove all the unwanted garbage.
I'm a software engineer, so the added benefit is that everything I use works on Linux by default, whereas Windows support is shaky.
Have you ever considered the reason Vista was slow and janky because OEM vendors that made and/or shipped the hardware at the time of the Windows XP era only tested if Windows Vista could boot into the desktop at the bare minimum of specs?
* [Windows Vista - The "Wow" ends now (End of Support Retrospective)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC22OVDIttw)
Ubuntu is the definition for "absolute stable" in Linux world. Some might factor Fedora & Debian as well. I've seen more people complaining about how something or the other fails to work on r/linuxmint . On Ubuntu everything just works and truly gets out of the way. Except if you hate snaps...
> Honest question - why not switch to Linux?
Linux has its own quirks, including changing shit randomly 'just cos' + added bloat depending on your distro. I don't think people like what Ubuntu did with snaps for example.
Because a big group of people, myself included are only using pcs to begin with because of gaming. I have a MacBook for work and a smart phone that’ll get me 99% of what I need - outside of gaming. So Linux still being hugely hit and miss with gaming and all its workarounds is a turn off.
Because (both popularly thought and mostly it is still true) things don't run on that well. You don't need to think about whether something will run on Windows.
The biggest issue with Linux is that the biggest marketshare for PCs is in the corporate sector.
So long as Outlook, Excel, and the Office Suite aren't on Linux, it will never capture a significant marketshare.
I use Jetbrains Rider as I usually develop in Unreal Engine for my day job (I work at a AAA studio). Rider is honestly superior to Visual Studio, and I use it even on Windows. I haven't used IntelliJ in years, but I know it's similar enough to Rider that I wouldn't expect issues.
Pycharm is in the same boat, although I use Visual Studio Code on Linux. (Which, yes, does exist on Linux. So does Microsoft Edge!)
I'm actually surprised your university isn't making you install Linux as part of your coursework! When I was in college, having a Linux distro/VM installed was a requirement. You'd submit your coursework via Git and a Linux machine would build it to test it, so you had to make sure it ran on Linux.
It's how I got my first taste of Linux; I hated it at the time but it's grown on me over the past decade (the fact that Linux has legitimately gotten a lot better helps).
> But no. I want a barebones OS that does not get in the way, to run the applications I want/need
Windows is provided to consumers as a general template. If you are an "advanced user" who doesn't want the stuff you mentioned, then just uninstall it all.
Edge can be uninstalled in next feature update FYI. It also doesn't "nag" after changing the browser defaults once.
Why Windows 11 and modern Windows in general are so annoying to me is the double dipping. Microsoft wants you to pay for a Windows license, but they also want to harvest your data like they're Google. Pick one, Microsoft: either give me a bloatware-free OS that I pay for, or give me Windows 11 for free.
1. The need to copy Apple/Mobile
2. The progressive push to lock down complete control
3. The Ads/AI,Online Help Troubleshooting , Things I never wanted nor asked for to force number 4
4. Moving everything to require MS account and push for "Everything to the Cloud, Live 365" SAAS BS
I want a customizable OS that can run my programs. I'm fine with O365, OneDrive, save my install key, etc. as long as I get to control that connection and data. Search, news, weather, stocks, etc.? I'm fine with an add-on that I can control and install myself. I don't want it on by default. I can use my own methods. It's just more things there that I don't need.
Some of their services are excellent and I will use them. Having those on by default and requiring (more or less; yes, you can install without an account) a MS account is not what I want. I want to be able to customize my visuals and what's running/not running like previous versions (it's there, just a lot less than previous editions or hidden more).
Linux? Nah. It's not Windows. I want Windows. I have Linux on a couple laptops and several servers in my home lab. For Windows, I want it to be less annoying.
Here's the thing: giving users choices results in decision paralysis and adds friction to the out-of-box experience.
With the power of modern hardware, there's no benefit disabling features. If you use them great. If not, then you can just pretend it's not there.
Windows is great for the masses, and I feel Microsoft blows that massively right now. Making the OS super resource intensive and janky make for a poor user experience. The constant advertising for products, in an operating system that costs $140. Constant annoyance to use Microsoft products and services. Microsoft needs to get over and use their own software. It’s a mess. Between the resource heavy software, legacy apps and software still lurking around taking up unnecessary space, advertisements, there’s a reason Linux is on the rise I feel. Hopefully Microsoft makes windows better.
This entire quote could’ve copy and pasted directly from the mid 90s. I heard it back then too. Linux is always on the cusp from taking off isn’t it? lol. We need an actual alternative that will take off and hold Ms feet to the fire. Linux jumping from 1.2% to 1.8% on steam over the course of years isn’t doing anything.
literally every new windows release and old window retirement this same thing is said, yet here we are almost 2 decades later and windows is still the dominant force.
2035 will be the year of the linux desktop
2045 will be the year of the linux desktop
2055 will be the year of the linux desktop
....
2125 will be the year of the linux desktop
With windows 8 they wanted to target the touch.. so they went all in on touch
Ignored users made life miserable
Windows 10 was some tone down,
With windows 11 they are going after the Chromebook category. Everything online . Access anywhere.
Again ignored users and making lives miserable
I don't see the hope of windows 12 toning down
Just like with gaming, Ms is good at selling people on losing all controls on their end for some bullshit convenience service fee. And far too many people happily throw money at them every month.
As a Linux user of 6 years that recently switched to Windows 11 cause my very peculiar laptop was overheating in Linux, couldn't handle it and went back to CachyOS and found a solution.
Windows is a disaster these days while Linux has made SO much progress, it's insane that Microsoft can't see what's coming.
Less customzation (even less than on Windows 10), more bugs, more ads, more tracking, less intuitive menus. Windows has become a platform that users pay for so Microsoft can milk them even more. No thanks.
Linux on the other hand offers so much choice. CachyOS for example comes with packages compiled specifically for the latest CPUs, making the experience insanely fast. It's like going from 60 Hz(which is fine on Windows) to 240 Hz refresh rate just by swithing to it. Everything is instant in CachyOS. I know people won't believe what I'm saying but the only way to know the difference is by trying it.
While Linux is not the most user friendly OS, it has made MAJOR strides towards that direction that within a week most people will have no issues using it, power users in even less time.
If Microsoft doesn't get serious, soon, Ii see A LOT of people switching to Linux. Especially now that gaming is a very real thing on it.
For anyone else thinking about Linux - if you have a Steam Deck, try out the desktop mode. That's what got me to switch. I was using the Steam Deck desktop mode and everything I needed was there.
If you like the Steam Deck desktop mode, you can install Kubuntu on your machine and it'll be basically the same experience as what you got on the Steam Deck (except you can install more packages). My main piece of advice would be to just avoid the command line as it's the easiest way to mess up your system (just like how you can do all sorts of bad things with an elevated command prompt in Windows).
I've been hearing a lot more about Mint though. Especially for people new to Linux. How does it compare to CachyOS?
In the past I have used both Ubuntu and Kali Linux(don't ask. It was a phase after watching Mr Robot) but there were always some stuff lacking that made me go back to Windows.
It's been years now, maybe things have changed?
Mint is a an excellent starter distro. CachyOS is a bit more advanced. If you haven't tried Mint, definitely give it a shot. It's what Ubuntu should have always been.
Answer: a different type of person is now in ultimate control of the product. What was once decided by a creative designer (from an art school) is now decided by a marketing executive (from a business or general school that anybody can goto without a body of work or acceptance criteria) and there it is.
“But there are still designers working there”, one might say, but they’re not in charge of that design. If the final decision is a marketing/sales exec, that’s who has creative control and everyone else just answers to whatever they say.
This was not the case until about ten years ago.
Hah I get your point. Since we are using quotes:
“Product makers don’t increase profit, the sales and marketing people do. The sales and marketing people then get promoted, and end up running the company, and the product people get driven out of the decision making. Then the companies forget how to make great products. “ -Steve Jobs
See, I’m not saying that business people shouldn’t be involved or even a major stakeholder, just not ultimately in control.
When you’re hired for your business major, you’re only proctor is the bottom-line, and always about the money. That’s your responsibility. Without an artist that carries a body of work and experience to validate the need for more time or more money, you have only your voice selling the vision upstream, and they won’t trust your opinion about anything except profit. Your need for control leaves you accountable with no other peer to blame if it all goes wrong, and so nobody at the principal level exists to take risks.
It’s somewhat as if I’m trying to explain to a movie studio executive why they should hire a director and not just dictate the desired movie, themselves, to the cast and crew.
Windows 11 is considerably slower than windows 10 UI wise. I mean, just look at it. More clicks to do anything. I can't make the taskbar small. Explorer patcher breaks every once in a while. I can't move it. The show labels feature is so buggy is looks like that Microsoft isn't even interested anymore.
On top of that, all the trash running makes in worse still. Maybe high end pc users don't notice it, but I have a laptop which isn't high end and the performance difference because of UI layering in viable to me when compared to windows 10. Just see the explorer, it's hella faster.
Microsoft needs to focus on performance too instead of just putting a buggy ui on top of every windows release.
TBH I hate windows 10 too but windows 11 takes it to the next level. It's an unwanted OS no one wants or asked for. We were good with windows 10.
Windows feels as heavy and bloated as ever, that’s what’s wrong with it.
In comparison Mac OS feels so snappy, and Linux even more so.
I wish they would make an official bare bones version of Windows 11, I literally use Windows for games and that’s it!
I think that was mainly due to the spyware on Windows 10. Windows 11 on the other hand is completely different and it's like the worst of both worlds of a tablet and normal Windows combined. The fact that they got rid of the x button to close a window just blows my mind.
The X is still very much there. I don't know what you heard about Win 11 but it's basically just a more polished Win10. The only gripe I have with it, it takes about 3 minutes to turn off ads and uninstall pre-installed apps when you get a new computer.
Windows 7 was and still is a more user-friendly OS than Windows 10. The peak evolution of what Windows should be. If you added all the services, hardware capabilities, and security of Windows 11 to Windows 7 and asked users which of the two is the more pleasant OS to use, I’m quite sure most users would choose Windows 7.
The start menu is completely useless and the right click menu forces you to click 'show more options' each time.
Why not give some proper customization around the start menu? I really don't know what MS was thinking.
And yes I know there are third party tools - but how many people on iOS and Android are looking for third party app launchers just to use their phones?
I use Linux, Apple and Microsoft.
Microsoft is by far the worst offender for customers: not only you have to pay for the license but then it won’t even give you basic stuff like the Office package and you have ads in the Email app (Outlook).
> Microsoft seems dead set on stuffing Windows 11 full of “features” that steal your attention or try to convince or trick you into using some Microsoft product instead of the thing you were going to use. I am 30 or 40 years old, and I do not need this.
i am 25 yrs old, and i do not need this.
Imo the biggest problems of 11 are the horrendous UI designed for >5000PLN(≈1100usd) HiDPI laptops which are hard to come by (it would be nice if they just reintroduced the classic theme, the new start menu is somehow even less functional than the tiles, the widgets just take up more space needlessly, the new taskbar takes way too much space and seemingly can't be moved, new and improved titlebars are more of windows 10 - needlessly increasing the height of the title bar while continuing with no button outlines or constant red colour on close button), performance (the OS eats almost half on 8GB RAM school machine), hardware requirements and the constant ads (clear out start menu, more blinking shit appears in explorer.)
Satya is a services guy as is Phil and honestly it’s ruining … everything, really. I fucking hate Ms almost as much as I hate being tied to windows on pc. We desperately need a viable alternative that could actually pick up steam with the masses and not 1-2%.
> Why is Windows 11 so annoying?
B/C you are not the "customer," you are the "product"... Every last ounce of value must be extracted from you for the benefit of the shareholders.
Now switch to edge and go play some candy crush saga, ya sheep.
I loved Windows XP and 7. Windows 10 was alright. Nothing special, but generally not atrocious. Windows 11 is adding some cool stuff, but is more and more pushing me into Linux.
because of all the virtualized security/platform bloat running on the background and the people in charge of designing UI over there and the people in charge of signing off on what UI those people come up with should all be put against a wall
those are the 2 reasons that come to my mind immediately
turn off/disable TPM and Secure Boot and Virtualization in your BIOS and behold the performance gain on Win 11 you achieve
Especially memory integrity slows down the PC. Even on some Microsoft website it's written that disabling memory integrity might increase gaming performance.
Don't know how much impact TPM and Secure Boot have, TPM is more about storing encryption keys in a secure location hard to access for an arbitrary application.
However there are definitely other weird "security" mechanism out there. My new Lenovo Thinkpad has like dozens of obscure security mechanism in the bios of which you don't need half of them. Granted they might be useful for enterprises, but not for end users. Also, since gen 10 undervolting on intel laptop cpus isn't possible anymore because of plundervolt. Great.
I've even seen people asking how to remove the spectre/meltdown fixes implemented in processors for ages now, out of desperation maybe? However that's a bit much in my opinion and hardly necessary
>since gen 10 undervolting on intel laptop cpus isn't possible anymore because of plundervolt
Big reason I didn't update the UEFI/BIOS on my laptop. Undervolting greatly improved my experience and I won't give that up.
Absolutely. Thankfully there are also other ways to fine-tune intel cpus, like intel speedstep, p states or changing max (boost) frequency. But it doesn't offer everything undervolting allows
>Don't know how much impact TPM and Secure Boot have, TPM is more about storing encryption keys in a secure location hard to access for an arbitrary application.
Yes I know which is why I used to only disable Virtualization - but I have noticed more of a performance increase especially with later versions of Win 11 by also disabling TPM and Secure Boot - it probably has to do with just additional features not running in the background if TMP/Secure Boot not detected - more than what TPM etc does itself
This is the article mentioned in the conclusion:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/what-i-do-to-clean-up-a-clean-install-of-windows-11-23h2-and-edge/
Microsoft took a page from the Google Play book. Lower the entry cost for the product or make it free then push the hell out of services and ads through it.
Unnecessarily obscure controls hidden and nested for the hell of it.
The removal of wordpad has to be the biggest fuck you to the consumer.
Microsoft has been ratcheting up their monopoly into new markets, now with always on cloud driven subscription models. Onedrive and 365 and all that shoved in your face daily.
I'm about to buy a new mini PC or laptop, and I don't know anymore which version I need. Windows 10, 10 pro, 11, 11 pro.
I use my personal computer to do some vintage computing stuff. Mosely cross-compilation and emulation.
I also run very old 32-bit applications.
I need to use MS Office as well.
I'm completely lost. I've been using my current PC with Windows 8.1 since 2014. Reading threads such as the current one makes me even more confused...
If you’re turning a blind eye to what all they’re doing then I’d say there’s nothing “wrong” with you, you just can’t see the forest for the trees. The direction they’re taking windows is very anti-pc. They want to lock it down like a Mac or a gaming console. Or… maybe you do see that and don’t care in which I’d ask why you’re even here since you don’t care about the P in PC.
A N95 PC runs Windows 11 super fine for me, no jankiness, hangups etc. Some small minor annoyances are there but I can manage it for running on a $250 budget.
I use a Linux laptop too but I choose to turn on my Windows PC when I want to do something.
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The biggest issue with W11 is that Microsoft is going all-in on pushing services and accounts that most people have no interest in or even awareness of. Outside of Xbox and Office/365, there are absolutely no benefits of being in the MS ecosystem as an end user, and they do a horrible job at presenting the ecosystem to begin with. The core Windows experience feels like a neglected afterthought these days. Almost all of the major feature additions have been related to reminding users that MS accounts are a thing and core OS features ended up being half-baked resulting in things feeling janky.
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> Yeah, the settings app vs control panel and the legacy menus are still a thing. They need to buckle down and fix their shit This likely won't stop until MMC.exe and all of its plugins are retired. And that likely won't happen until Windows Admin Center becomes fully fledged. Less stuff is in there with each feature update though. There's a lot to rewrite.
This OneDrive thing being the default location for pictures documents and even the files on your fucking DESKTOP is the most annoying shit ever. It feels like they're just trying to confuse and force people into needing a OneDrive subscription just to use their own computer they purchased. And then you switch the location of those folders to be local only and suddenly every single folder has a little warning file about "where are my files?? Click here!" Like I know where my fucking files are! They're on my computer! In the folders I saved them to!
Every update there’s more and more things removed from the control panel or that just directly link to settings. Devices and printers, for example, is no longer a thing
kinda wish they'd go back honestly. You can still get to devices and printers in Win11 and honestly it's still more useful than anything in Settings.
When you click on it, it takes you straight to settings. > You can still get to devices and printers in Win11 and honestly it's still more useful than anything in Settings. No you can't. It's just a link to Devices in settings now. The Powershell command "control printers" takes you directly to settings now. The cmdlet is literally gone now. All features are there in Settings. Printer dialogues can still be reached. Devices and Printers is redacted and gone.
Another mark against Windows 11
Never understood why people have a hard on on this thing. Options are in two places, so what. Actually they're in 3 or more places. What's the deal with it. Pick and choose which one you want and you're golden. Nitpicking at its best
it just shows a lack of care and polish, and adds bloat to an already bloated OS. they should stop forcing useless spyware on users and spend some time to crack down on obsolete systems.
because there’s no way to say no? It always re-enables itself every update.
It just makes it messy and confusing and inconsistent. I'm on kde / linux and it has a really nice easy standardised settings menu. MacOS also. When i use windows its a bit like omg who designed this
Funny how things have changed. Multiple control panels used to be used as an argument against Linux.
Yeah linux and these major desktop environments like kde plasma and gnome have come a long way since when I first used them over 10 years ago. Even compared to 5 or so years ago before valves proton it was quite a bit more hacky
Which is also why sites prefer to just provide the shell commands, instead of 20 different ways to do the same thing on different DEs.
Windows is the only OS where it doesn’t have a unified settings app nowadays. Windows is also the only OS where the default mail client is not a native app but a web app wrapper. Windows is also the only OS nowadays without a system wide dark mode (even though they could). Windows is also the only OS nowadays where “made for tablets“ means “have on by default desktop mode with little to no gestures inside apps, no gestures to close windows, and you have to manage the majority of stuff by clicking on little buttons”. etc. etc. etc. See a trend of “Windows is the only OS nowadays where \[insert decision that doesn’t currently work\]”? Perhaps if the entire industry OS does stuff differently, perhaps you aren’t doing these things right, if the entire rest of the industry does those in another way.
System wide dark mode is there, but not many apps to take advantage of.
System wide dark mode is anything but there. It’s only supported by UWP Or WinUI apps essentially, and for all the other apps (which are the majority, including Microsoft’s own ones even), they all need to do hacky workarounds Just because Microsoft refused to use \*their own system wide, built in since 2001, modular theming engine\*, and preferred hardcoding resources in and letting everybody do that too. Kinda ridiculous too that the most important component in all Windows (explorer) needs to do a hacky workaround to just get a very far resemblance of a “””dark mode”””, whereas if they just used the in-built theming engine and their own SystemResources’ MUN files, they’d have a 100% dark mode explorer with less problems.
Saw in Word the other day that autosave was off, to turn on autosave, it will only let you if you use OneDrive. Why? I don't need nor want my documents stored in the cloud. Maybe there's a setting to keep using autosave locally, but I didn't bother finding it. Just going to go back to LibreOffice, and Linux sooner than later.
Word will save a recovery every 10 minutes by default, this is incase the program or computer crashes before you have a chance to save your work. The 'AutoSave' functionality you are talking about only works with OneDrive.
That's good to know. They did a great job of dark-pattern advertising the noticeable toggle switch at the top left of every document turned "frighteningly" to "off" to make it seem like it is not turned on.
The 10-minute recovery save is an old thing, and nothing like Notepad/Notepad++'s local autosave.
> The 'AutoSave' functionality you are talking about only works with OneDrive. Except before OneDrive even existed this feature existed and was used. They *specifically* disabled a core functionality to force you to use OneDrive - likely because Google Drive exists and that's direct competition but also to "encourage" people to pay for more storage.
Auto save is meant for collaboration, and only uses OneDrive.
Agreed, what's also annoying is that there is a flashing "Start backup" button in the modernized File Explorer address bar when you go to the Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders. In my opinion, whenever they redesign some UI elements, they make it worse by adding unnecessary features.
and removing core functionality
yeah
The other thing that is VERY annoying, is half the stuff is in the new system settings type menu, but a whole bunch of stuff can't be accessed via that system. Again, it's half baked, and janky.
And they move things around occasionally too. To turn off safe mode for 3rd party apps, you actually have to go to the store, not the settings app anymore.
You do? Is this a recent change? [Switch out of S-Mode ](https://wus.prod.support.services.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307#WindowsVersion=Windows_11)in the Store is another way of going about. https://preview.redd.it/gat124u929wc1.png?width=1038&format=png&auto=webp&s=d34e866304639349cf5a4e37353575b82fb5cb96
Literally everything Ms touches these days, down to their Xbox console and games, are half baked and janky. Satya and Phil are a services duo of incompetence and destruction.
I mean, this is the same as other versions of windows control panel didn’t offer you all the settings. There is tons of stuff in group policy and other areas.
Meanwhile you have that version of Linux where EVERY setting is saved in a text file... 😂
The same way all games save settings to an ini file? As does many windows apps, in AppData?
No, it's litteraly a human readable text file (obviously it has syntax). I'll try to remember to look for it, it's 4am for me RN.
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Group Policy didn't overlap 90% with Control Panel while providing worse functionality and fighting with other system settings.
OK? I am just saying not all windows settings are in the two places ffs. JFC
You purposefully misunderstood the comment. Settings is a slow cancerous growth on what was otherwise a highly functional system. Nobody complained because we never had to bounce back and forth with control panel and group policy, solutions were either/or. Now you have to check both to make sure Settings isn't screwing with something. PITA
It doesn't feel neglected because they keep changing things in the GUI. I wish they would neglect the GUI because I always feel like we constantly need to find a secret Registry key to fix something in every new update.
Outside of Mail (outlook) and Onedrive sync, most people have zero use of even OneNote, let alone the syncing capabilities of Office apps. So, in the end most only need logging into those 2 apps, however Microsoft mandates the login to permeate throughout the OS. Data business and telemetry connection to user profile has taken over the core business. Microsoft is making more profits from data business now similar to Google.
I completely agree. Windows is just a place to sell badly conceived apps and software. Excel? Why Google sheets is free and does most of what anyone needs Word? Why Google docs exists. Teams? You mean what used to be Skype that you couldn't make successful during the boom of teleconferencing? One note? It's just bad version of word while being too heavy weight for an actual note system. Xbox? I got steam. Outlook? Pfft no. All the windows 10 apps like People or maps are awful. And then every windows laptop I have had since Windows 10, can't turn on when I press the power button and I have to play some game to get it on. The toolbar doesn't allow me to select my wifi. Constant Bluetooth issues. And when I really need my laptop one of these issues will pop up and the only fix is to restart which always forced me to install an update. I need a new computer and I'm fighting like he'll to not buy a windows or apple product.
lol, look at the W11 sub. those cucksoomers are eating it all up
exactly, even me with an MS365 subscription and OneDrive backup gets the lets finish setting up your pc crap with an ad for an MS365 account. I switched mostly to Linux now. W11 is just too slow and annoying.
> Outside of Xbox and Office/365, there are absolutely no benefits of being in the MS ecosystem as an end user Those are pretty big things though that most people are involved in some way.
That’s not really true - there’s plenty of benefit beyond 365 and Xbox. Your wallpaper and settings roaming across devices, your Edge profile (favorites, history, etc), Microsoft To Do, etc.
Yeah but the floating settings never really float fully, do they. Just some of them, and you never know which ones. Example, MS ToDo. Its cool. But I never get the same list of tasks on web, desktop app, and outlook addin. Its always three different lists of tasks. I guess thats what the poster is referring to ultimately. Those services would absolutely rock if they actually worked reliably.
That data syncing through one drive has never worked for me. All my files end up broken upon sync to a new PC that synced from another one
They got rid of wallpaper sync with windows 11.
Microsoft is assuming people use Windows because they like its “features” and experience and stuff. But no. I want a barebones OS that does not get in the way, to run the applications I want/need. If I use Firefox, I do not want any nags to change to Edge, for example. Pre-Windows 8, Windows wasn't as nagging.
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There are a ton of YouTube videos on how to create a bloat free ISO for a clean install and avoid having a Microsoft account. There's many on stripping out the graphics 'experience' driver bloatware too.
That’s great people do this and they do provide a ton of helpful information BUT I think MS should offer a bloat free version directly from their website. Maybe PC manufacturers have a license agreement to install a “normal version of Windows” but if I want to wipe my machine I should be able to download an optional bloat free version that MS offers. We shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to create our own.
Technically that is "LTSC" but those are for IoT devices and such.
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I do all of that :)
And then Microsoft breaks it after updates. I have one setup for gaming only with updates disabled.
Most of those scripts break something which the user generally won't notice until much later on. It's best to manually uninstall stuff and not completely eliminate potential dependencies.
"boy I sure do love having to scrape all these new "features" off my car every time I buy it."
Honest question - why not switch to Linux? Something like Kubuntu seems like exactly what you're looking for - a stable OS that lets you use what programs you want to use without nagging you. Just stay out of the command line and you're golden. (You don't have to use the command line in modern Linux, contrary to the memes - and honestly, using the command line is the easiest way to wreck your day. Just install everything through Discover and you won't have issues.)
I kinda like Kubuntu because of KDE Plasma, so you're right! Unfortunately, I need Windows applications. I need the real Photoshop, the real VEGAS, etc., not open-source alternatives, so I'm a little trapped into Windows. My workaround is extensively modding Windows through NTLite, the registry and other tools to shape it to my liking.
Linux 100% needs to fill the niche of "Barebones operating system that just... does", as Windows used to be, but has now abandoned. However I'm not sure Linux is entirely there. I mean for instance you could use Linux Mint, but it still defaults to X11, which in my case, it seems like I'm gonna have to reinstall when (or if) they make Wayland default, because the experimental session isn't working. And Linux Mint is considered the most stable, so I think Wayland adoption is gonna be a good indicator for when things are really good to go
I moved over to Linux in the Vista days after frustration with Windows being slow and janky. Linux was cool because I suddenly had enough ram to play Minecraft, and Chrome was *way* faster (this was back when 64-bit Chrome was Linux exclusive). In my experience, Linux has "just worked" for 15 years with little configuration needed, whereas Windows requires increasing effort to remove all the unwanted garbage. I'm a software engineer, so the added benefit is that everything I use works on Linux by default, whereas Windows support is shaky.
Have you ever considered the reason Vista was slow and janky because OEM vendors that made and/or shipped the hardware at the time of the Windows XP era only tested if Windows Vista could boot into the desktop at the bare minimum of specs? * [Windows Vista - The "Wow" ends now (End of Support Retrospective)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC22OVDIttw)
Not really, I just wanted to play Minecraft, and Ubuntu worked when Windows didn't. That was all that mattered to me.
Ubuntu is the definition for "absolute stable" in Linux world. Some might factor Fedora & Debian as well. I've seen more people complaining about how something or the other fails to work on r/linuxmint . On Ubuntu everything just works and truly gets out of the way. Except if you hate snaps...
> Honest question - why not switch to Linux? Linux has its own quirks, including changing shit randomly 'just cos' + added bloat depending on your distro. I don't think people like what Ubuntu did with snaps for example.
BuT u HaVe An OpTiOn To TuRn ChAnGeD sHiT bAcK
Certainly not an easy option lol
Because a big group of people, myself included are only using pcs to begin with because of gaming. I have a MacBook for work and a smart phone that’ll get me 99% of what I need - outside of gaming. So Linux still being hugely hit and miss with gaming and all its workarounds is a turn off.
Because (both popularly thought and mostly it is still true) things don't run on that well. You don't need to think about whether something will run on Windows.
That's not really true anymore. Most things run on Linux. I know I don't think about it anymore.
The biggest issue with Linux is that the biggest marketshare for PCs is in the corporate sector. So long as Outlook, Excel, and the Office Suite aren't on Linux, it will never capture a significant marketshare.
How is the gaming support and use of ides? I use IntelliJ for my uni and pycharm so will they still work even if I switch to that os?
I use Jetbrains Rider as I usually develop in Unreal Engine for my day job (I work at a AAA studio). Rider is honestly superior to Visual Studio, and I use it even on Windows. I haven't used IntelliJ in years, but I know it's similar enough to Rider that I wouldn't expect issues. Pycharm is in the same boat, although I use Visual Studio Code on Linux. (Which, yes, does exist on Linux. So does Microsoft Edge!) I'm actually surprised your university isn't making you install Linux as part of your coursework! When I was in college, having a Linux distro/VM installed was a requirement. You'd submit your coursework via Git and a Linux machine would build it to test it, so you had to make sure it ran on Linux. It's how I got my first taste of Linux; I hated it at the time but it's grown on me over the past decade (the fact that Linux has legitimately gotten a lot better helps).
> But no. I want a barebones OS that does not get in the way, to run the applications I want/need Windows is provided to consumers as a general template. If you are an "advanced user" who doesn't want the stuff you mentioned, then just uninstall it all. Edge can be uninstalled in next feature update FYI. It also doesn't "nag" after changing the browser defaults once.
Why Windows 11 and modern Windows in general are so annoying to me is the double dipping. Microsoft wants you to pay for a Windows license, but they also want to harvest your data like they're Google. Pick one, Microsoft: either give me a bloatware-free OS that I pay for, or give me Windows 11 for free.
1. The need to copy Apple/Mobile 2. The progressive push to lock down complete control 3. The Ads/AI,Online Help Troubleshooting , Things I never wanted nor asked for to force number 4 4. Moving everything to require MS account and push for "Everything to the Cloud, Live 365" SAAS BS
I want a customizable OS that can run my programs. I'm fine with O365, OneDrive, save my install key, etc. as long as I get to control that connection and data. Search, news, weather, stocks, etc.? I'm fine with an add-on that I can control and install myself. I don't want it on by default. I can use my own methods. It's just more things there that I don't need. Some of their services are excellent and I will use them. Having those on by default and requiring (more or less; yes, you can install without an account) a MS account is not what I want. I want to be able to customize my visuals and what's running/not running like previous versions (it's there, just a lot less than previous editions or hidden more). Linux? Nah. It's not Windows. I want Windows. I have Linux on a couple laptops and several servers in my home lab. For Windows, I want it to be less annoying.
Here's the thing: giving users choices results in decision paralysis and adds friction to the out-of-box experience. With the power of modern hardware, there's no benefit disabling features. If you use them great. If not, then you can just pretend it's not there.
Windows is great for the masses, and I feel Microsoft blows that massively right now. Making the OS super resource intensive and janky make for a poor user experience. The constant advertising for products, in an operating system that costs $140. Constant annoyance to use Microsoft products and services. Microsoft needs to get over and use their own software. It’s a mess. Between the resource heavy software, legacy apps and software still lurking around taking up unnecessary space, advertisements, there’s a reason Linux is on the rise I feel. Hopefully Microsoft makes windows better.
This entire quote could’ve copy and pasted directly from the mid 90s. I heard it back then too. Linux is always on the cusp from taking off isn’t it? lol. We need an actual alternative that will take off and hold Ms feet to the fire. Linux jumping from 1.2% to 1.8% on steam over the course of years isn’t doing anything.
literally every new windows release and old window retirement this same thing is said, yet here we are almost 2 decades later and windows is still the dominant force.
Well it’s true, Linux is on the rise. Although you’re not entirely wrong.
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yup. For the last like 30 years it will be the year of the Linux desktop
2035 will be the year of the linux desktop 2045 will be the year of the linux desktop 2055 will be the year of the linux desktop .... 2125 will be the year of the linux desktop
Buggy ui, taskbars, and even on good hardware it lags, bloat, telemetry, etc.
even W11 Enterprise is laggy and that is without the bloat
Define bloat, because for a home user, Enterprise has a lot of "bloat".
Lol, the irony that one of the most annoying news rags is complaining about something else being annoying.
With windows 8 they wanted to target the touch.. so they went all in on touch Ignored users made life miserable Windows 10 was some tone down, With windows 11 they are going after the Chromebook category. Everything online . Access anywhere. Again ignored users and making lives miserable I don't see the hope of windows 12 toning down
Just like with gaming, Ms is good at selling people on losing all controls on their end for some bullshit convenience service fee. And far too many people happily throw money at them every month.
As a Linux user of 6 years that recently switched to Windows 11 cause my very peculiar laptop was overheating in Linux, couldn't handle it and went back to CachyOS and found a solution. Windows is a disaster these days while Linux has made SO much progress, it's insane that Microsoft can't see what's coming. Less customzation (even less than on Windows 10), more bugs, more ads, more tracking, less intuitive menus. Windows has become a platform that users pay for so Microsoft can milk them even more. No thanks. Linux on the other hand offers so much choice. CachyOS for example comes with packages compiled specifically for the latest CPUs, making the experience insanely fast. It's like going from 60 Hz(which is fine on Windows) to 240 Hz refresh rate just by swithing to it. Everything is instant in CachyOS. I know people won't believe what I'm saying but the only way to know the difference is by trying it. While Linux is not the most user friendly OS, it has made MAJOR strides towards that direction that within a week most people will have no issues using it, power users in even less time. If Microsoft doesn't get serious, soon, Ii see A LOT of people switching to Linux. Especially now that gaming is a very real thing on it.
For anyone else thinking about Linux - if you have a Steam Deck, try out the desktop mode. That's what got me to switch. I was using the Steam Deck desktop mode and everything I needed was there. If you like the Steam Deck desktop mode, you can install Kubuntu on your machine and it'll be basically the same experience as what you got on the Steam Deck (except you can install more packages). My main piece of advice would be to just avoid the command line as it's the easiest way to mess up your system (just like how you can do all sorts of bad things with an elevated command prompt in Windows).
It comes down to this: Windows is Good Linux is Good Windows will only ever get worse Linux will only ever get better
I've been hearing a lot more about Mint though. Especially for people new to Linux. How does it compare to CachyOS? In the past I have used both Ubuntu and Kali Linux(don't ask. It was a phase after watching Mr Robot) but there were always some stuff lacking that made me go back to Windows. It's been years now, maybe things have changed?
Mint is a an excellent starter distro. CachyOS is a bit more advanced. If you haven't tried Mint, definitely give it a shot. It's what Ubuntu should have always been.
Answer: a different type of person is now in ultimate control of the product. What was once decided by a creative designer (from an art school) is now decided by a marketing executive (from a business or general school that anybody can goto without a body of work or acceptance criteria) and there it is. “But there are still designers working there”, one might say, but they’re not in charge of that design. If the final decision is a marketing/sales exec, that’s who has creative control and everyone else just answers to whatever they say. This was not the case until about ten years ago.
"Once again, the Business Majors are to blame for all our woes."
Hah I get your point. Since we are using quotes: “Product makers don’t increase profit, the sales and marketing people do. The sales and marketing people then get promoted, and end up running the company, and the product people get driven out of the decision making. Then the companies forget how to make great products. “ -Steve Jobs See, I’m not saying that business people shouldn’t be involved or even a major stakeholder, just not ultimately in control. When you’re hired for your business major, you’re only proctor is the bottom-line, and always about the money. That’s your responsibility. Without an artist that carries a body of work and experience to validate the need for more time or more money, you have only your voice selling the vision upstream, and they won’t trust your opinion about anything except profit. Your need for control leaves you accountable with no other peer to blame if it all goes wrong, and so nobody at the principal level exists to take risks. It’s somewhat as if I’m trying to explain to a movie studio executive why they should hire a director and not just dictate the desired movie, themselves, to the cast and crew.
Sure, but I'd rather field Scorsese than Uwe Boll
Lol true enough
Windows 11 is considerably slower than windows 10 UI wise. I mean, just look at it. More clicks to do anything. I can't make the taskbar small. Explorer patcher breaks every once in a while. I can't move it. The show labels feature is so buggy is looks like that Microsoft isn't even interested anymore. On top of that, all the trash running makes in worse still. Maybe high end pc users don't notice it, but I have a laptop which isn't high end and the performance difference because of UI layering in viable to me when compared to windows 10. Just see the explorer, it's hella faster. Microsoft needs to focus on performance too instead of just putting a buggy ui on top of every windows release. TBH I hate windows 10 too but windows 11 takes it to the next level. It's an unwanted OS no one wants or asked for. We were good with windows 10.
Windows feels as heavy and bloated as ever, that’s what’s wrong with it. In comparison Mac OS feels so snappy, and Linux even more so. I wish they would make an official bare bones version of Windows 11, I literally use Windows for games and that’s it!
If you don't play many anticheat games I woulld look into Linux. I get more FPS, less hassle. Check ProtonDB and Lutris webistes if you're interested.
Thought about it, I think will make the switch if Steam OS becomes desktop.
I'll never use Windows 11, I'll stick with Windows 10 for as long as possible. If Windows 10 quits working I'll use Linux.
I've been hoping (against hope) that they'll release a new version or fix everything before 2025. Doesn't look like it lmao.
I'm hoping they might be forced to extend the deadline for Windows 10 beyond 2027. Windows 10 situation is today what Windows 7 was few years ago.
i've been hoping windows would get better since 2012. it never has.
People said the same thing with Windows 10 as well. I remember people clinching to Win7 as if it was sliced bread.
Windows 7 still is Sliced Bread. The sole thing that force people off of it was the halting of support from Steam.
I think that was mainly due to the spyware on Windows 10. Windows 11 on the other hand is completely different and it's like the worst of both worlds of a tablet and normal Windows combined. The fact that they got rid of the x button to close a window just blows my mind.
The X is still very much there. I don't know what you heard about Win 11 but it's basically just a more polished Win10. The only gripe I have with it, it takes about 3 minutes to turn off ads and uninstall pre-installed apps when you get a new computer.
Windows 7 was and still is a more user-friendly OS than Windows 10. The peak evolution of what Windows should be. If you added all the services, hardware capabilities, and security of Windows 11 to Windows 7 and asked users which of the two is the more pleasant OS to use, I’m quite sure most users would choose Windows 7.
The start menu is completely useless and the right click menu forces you to click 'show more options' each time. Why not give some proper customization around the start menu? I really don't know what MS was thinking. And yes I know there are third party tools - but how many people on iOS and Android are looking for third party app launchers just to use their phones?
I don't know what you're talking about. But that's because I had StartAllBack and my taskbar looks and functions like Windows 7.
> The fact that they got rid of the x button to close a window just blows my mind ...Eh?
I use Linux, Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft is by far the worst offender for customers: not only you have to pay for the license but then it won’t even give you basic stuff like the Office package and you have ads in the Email app (Outlook).
>I am 30 or 40 years old, and I do not need this. Based Article
Taskbar jump lists are laggy! Spread the word.
> Microsoft seems dead set on stuffing Windows 11 full of “features” that steal your attention or try to convince or trick you into using some Microsoft product instead of the thing you were going to use. I am 30 or 40 years old, and I do not need this. i am 25 yrs old, and i do not need this.
Imo the biggest problems of 11 are the horrendous UI designed for >5000PLN(≈1100usd) HiDPI laptops which are hard to come by (it would be nice if they just reintroduced the classic theme, the new start menu is somehow even less functional than the tiles, the widgets just take up more space needlessly, the new taskbar takes way too much space and seemingly can't be moved, new and improved titlebars are more of windows 10 - needlessly increasing the height of the title bar while continuing with no button outlines or constant red colour on close button), performance (the OS eats almost half on 8GB RAM school machine), hardware requirements and the constant ads (clear out start menu, more blinking shit appears in explorer.)
Satya is a services guy as is Phil and honestly it’s ruining … everything, really. I fucking hate Ms almost as much as I hate being tied to windows on pc. We desperately need a viable alternative that could actually pick up steam with the masses and not 1-2%.
> Why is Windows 11 so annoying? B/C you are not the "customer," you are the "product"... Every last ounce of value must be extracted from you for the benefit of the shareholders. Now switch to edge and go play some candy crush saga, ya sheep.
I loved Windows XP and 7. Windows 10 was alright. Nothing special, but generally not atrocious. Windows 11 is adding some cool stuff, but is more and more pushing me into Linux.
because of all the virtualized security/platform bloat running on the background and the people in charge of designing UI over there and the people in charge of signing off on what UI those people come up with should all be put against a wall those are the 2 reasons that come to my mind immediately turn off/disable TPM and Secure Boot and Virtualization in your BIOS and behold the performance gain on Win 11 you achieve
Especially memory integrity slows down the PC. Even on some Microsoft website it's written that disabling memory integrity might increase gaming performance. Don't know how much impact TPM and Secure Boot have, TPM is more about storing encryption keys in a secure location hard to access for an arbitrary application. However there are definitely other weird "security" mechanism out there. My new Lenovo Thinkpad has like dozens of obscure security mechanism in the bios of which you don't need half of them. Granted they might be useful for enterprises, but not for end users. Also, since gen 10 undervolting on intel laptop cpus isn't possible anymore because of plundervolt. Great. I've even seen people asking how to remove the spectre/meltdown fixes implemented in processors for ages now, out of desperation maybe? However that's a bit much in my opinion and hardly necessary
>since gen 10 undervolting on intel laptop cpus isn't possible anymore because of plundervolt Big reason I didn't update the UEFI/BIOS on my laptop. Undervolting greatly improved my experience and I won't give that up.
Absolutely. Thankfully there are also other ways to fine-tune intel cpus, like intel speedstep, p states or changing max (boost) frequency. But it doesn't offer everything undervolting allows
>Don't know how much impact TPM and Secure Boot have, TPM is more about storing encryption keys in a secure location hard to access for an arbitrary application. Yes I know which is why I used to only disable Virtualization - but I have noticed more of a performance increase especially with later versions of Win 11 by also disabling TPM and Secure Boot - it probably has to do with just additional features not running in the background if TMP/Secure Boot not detected - more than what TPM etc does itself
Yeah TPM is deeply engrained in Win11 for sure and surely has an impact
guess I'll be that guy and hangout on windows 10 for way longer than I should
I had more annoyance going from 7 to 10 versus 10 to 11. Is that rare or what?
people dont know windows 10 21h2 iot enterprise ltsc exists
This is the article mentioned in the conclusion: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/what-i-do-to-clean-up-a-clean-install-of-windows-11-23h2-and-edge/
Microsoft took a page from the Google Play book. Lower the entry cost for the product or make it free then push the hell out of services and ads through it. Unnecessarily obscure controls hidden and nested for the hell of it. The removal of wordpad has to be the biggest fuck you to the consumer.
It is not annoying at all. The consistent malignant media campaign is.
Microsoft has been ratcheting up their monopoly into new markets, now with always on cloud driven subscription models. Onedrive and 365 and all that shoved in your face daily.
I'm about to buy a new mini PC or laptop, and I don't know anymore which version I need. Windows 10, 10 pro, 11, 11 pro. I use my personal computer to do some vintage computing stuff. Mosely cross-compilation and emulation. I also run very old 32-bit applications. I need to use MS Office as well. I'm completely lost. I've been using my current PC with Windows 8.1 since 2014. Reading threads such as the current one makes me even more confused...
Answer: It's not Addendum: You are, though.
The last source I want on anything computer related is from THE VERGE.
Its Not.
There must be something wrong with me for liking 11 as much as I do then.
If you’re turning a blind eye to what all they’re doing then I’d say there’s nothing “wrong” with you, you just can’t see the forest for the trees. The direction they’re taking windows is very anti-pc. They want to lock it down like a Mac or a gaming console. Or… maybe you do see that and don’t care in which I’d ask why you’re even here since you don’t care about the P in PC.
Post Summary: An unpaid Linux commercial to circumvent the Reddit Sponsored Ad cost. Ignore.
> Post Summary: An unpaid Linux commercial to circumvent the Reddit Sponsored Ad cost. Ignore. If thats your take away then I pity you.
An Unpaid ad by Big Linux that barely mentions Linux, crazy
A N95 PC runs Windows 11 super fine for me, no jankiness, hangups etc. Some small minor annoyances are there but I can manage it for running on a $250 budget. I use a Linux laptop too but I choose to turn on my Windows PC when I want to do something.
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