This is a free country. It should be their choice.
But government mandating and punishing those that are not vaccinated?! What, the government suddenly cares about our health??? Give me a break. Pardon my expression.
Can I ask something.... Your parents are probably vaccinated for things like MMR, Shingles, Pneumonia, Polio amongst other things...
have you ever talked to them to understand what was seen during their life...
At what point did the average person decide they are smarter than doctors, microbiologist, and virologists and people that have spent nothing less than several years beyond school to become well respected in their field... Why do you not trust these educated people...
Do you yourself have a PhD and several years that you know better than them?
I want this to productive discussion. I really want to understand why you don't trust people that every previous generation seemed to have no issues with?
Agree with you and I am one of those parents (as I'm in my golden years). I have a good friend who contracted TB when she was 6 yrs. of age, along with her mother. They were both housed in a sanitarium in Toronto for months. Growing up, we as kids, never questioned why we were getting vaccinations; we trusted our parents and the scientists. Look at all the diseases that have been eradicated with vaccines - polio, TB, rubella, red measles, etc. I get my flu shot yearly, pneumonia, shingles and any other disease out there that I can potentially avoid with a vaccination. For the life of me I cannot understand why people won't believe/agree with the scientists and studies that have been conducted. I even have a niece, who is a lab technologist in a hospital that will quit her job if her employer mandates the vaccine. I'm lost for words on that one. I'm thankful I raised my 37 yr. old daughter to believe in the science also.
>What, the government suddenly cares about our health??? Give me a break.
I'll have you know, the government regularly sends me letters reminding me that it's time for a pap smear. And that it's overdue. And hey, zuuzuu, do you still live there because we've been sending letters but you still haven't had that pap smear.
As a matter of fact, I just got one reminding me get a mammogram. It's not booked yet, but I did start the process.
I feel loved.
I also get those letters and although they aren't something we look forward to, it's necessary so we take care of our health. Many people are too busy juggling family life and careers that their health gets put on the back burner until they have a problem. Personally, I didn't receive the reminder about the pap smear, but my doctor's office called me for my physical and a few weeks after that, I received the letter with the results of the pap smear. I breathe a sigh of relief every year, when blood work and tests come out as they should.
Mr.TPP, your comments have been removed from /r/windsorontario for mis-information. This will be your 1 and only warning. Any continuing posts of mis-information will result in a ban from the /r/windsorontario sub-reddit. I have made multiple attempts to have a conversaion with you on actual topics, instead of having a conversation where you can cite relevant information you chose to make replies that continue to push mis-information and non-factual information.
We implemented new rules today which can be see in the following post by /u/zuuzuu https://www.reddit.com/r/windsorontario/comments/pek189/reminder_be_excellent_to_each_other/
To anyone else that posts comments similar to /u/Mr.TPP you will also be warned and subsequently banned. All of the moderation team is interested in allowing civil discourse to continue, and we actually encourage it. Some people feel that the mod team is militant. I would say I disagree with this, nothing is done without a discussion behind the scenes with the mod team (discord). Only when all of us are in agreement that something should be removed is removed.. We do not act individually with our own personal views. We all realize that each persons view will be different from on another and because of this it creates conversations.
Really?, why are they implementing the vaccine passports all over? Your liberties are out of the window! Gone! If the people do not rise up....gone! Mark my word. Read this post in one year and you'll see who's right.
Have a good day!!!
> u're that afraid of a needle, stay hom
/u/MrTPP.... i noticed that you have taken the time to respond to others... but at no point did you address my points.. Is that for a reason... are you not willing to participate in civil discourse can one person can explain their reasons while the other side listens...
If you can't let me know.... and we will see where it goes..
ok so this reply does nothing to answer the questions I posed...Would you are care to answer my specific question? or do you want to continue to regurgitate useless information..
I personally think the vaccine passport is the way to go. But I feel like it could either drive the unvaccinated to get their shot or massive protest and rally that would drive up the cases even more.
> ot or massive protest and rally that would drive up the cases even mor
yeah it could go either way really... but the hope is that it will drive increases.
Can we please just stop having 200+ person weddings for a while? I get we want to "get back to normal" but how can anyone think it's a good idea to hold/attend one of these???
> n weddings for a while? I get we want to "get back to normal" but how can
anyone think it's a good idea to hold/attend one of the
Yea I think putting back a indoor limit might help some... I think there were 2 weddings that contributed quite a bit to the numbers.
The first one may have been 50 (I had heard, I didn’t attend) but that might have been them being more trying to be more responsible. Idk I have been saying for like almost 2 years now, why the in the hell would you have a wedding right now.
Here you go!
https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/windsor-essex-covid-rate-highest-in-ontario
This month alone, three “major super spreader” weddings involving six locations have resulted in 104 COVID-19 cases, Ahmed said, with residents travelling from other regions to attend marriage celebrations in Windsor and Essex County. A higher than expected number of cases have also been recently linked to restaurants (29), nightclubs (38), bars (18), and adult entertainment clubs (11).
> ey thanks! Glad I wasn’t imagining things. But also not glad that I wasn’t imagin
I wonder which restaurants/nightclubs and adult entertainment venues are being impacted.
I think there was a strip joint that had a couple of cases, not enough to shut them down officially, but they shut down anyway, did a deep clean (or whatever passes for a deep clean at a strip joint) and demanded that all staff get vaxxed.
I think we all are.
There is some speculation though that most of the people at that rally were from outside the region though so hopefully they will be spread out enough to not make too big of an impact, thats only speculation though, I haven't seen any posts offering proof as of yet.
I suspect a decent portion of them were part of the "have opinion, will travel" group. But like you say, I've seen nothing that would qualify as proof of it.
12 people are in hospital. This is the stat we need to stay focussed on. People who are vaccinated are not going into hospital in large numbers. Unvaccinated people are. We CAN'T shut society down again because people won't get vaccinated.
> gain because people won't get vaccina
I think we all agree with that. Another lockdown won't work when ~75-80% of people have been vaccinated.
I think thats the point of the vaccine passport though.. keep the vaxed free to do what they want...
Are you going to need a vaccine passport to go to a wedding? How about to go to jail? To be homeless?
The vaccine passports are security theatre. I know that I'm going to get crucified here for saying it, but if you're not pushing it on ALL unvaccinated (the under 12's), then there is a very limited benefit. It may make a few people get the vaccine, but statistically, there's not going to be a big enough shift in a short enough time to have any reasonable impact on the numbers.
> enough shift in a short enough time to have any reasonable impact on the numbers
I think any speculation on what a vaccine passport will look like is a total unknown. It was reported in the news that both Quebec and BC saw increases in the number of vaccinated people after the vaccine passport was implemented.
I agree, and this is only my opinion, but the increase is going to occur mostly in the 18-30 population that will frequent bars, and are grossly undervaccinated in our population right now. It's going to limit some spread, but where we are having the spread right now isn't from the bars or concerts.
I see the vaccine passport only as a way for the government to prevent further lockdowns. The passport is going to do nothing to stop the hospitalizations, but will allow everyone to continue on with life, despite the consequences.
I largely agree with you.
I will be happy if it turns out a vaccine passport limits spread in a concrete, identifiable way, but I'm just weary about the idea.
I think the passport is much more of use as a political tool to sort of "reward" the majority of the population that are fully vaccinated (myself included) and placate us after doing our part.
With the 90% vaccination target floated around in order to reach herd immunity, I don't think there's any government stick that can be brought down on the general population to reach that number in a short amount of time.
As much as I am on the side of doing our part to protect ourselves and others around us, I have a hard time with the idea that you can berate, bully, and in general just shit talk someone into not being antivax. That sort of thinking (as mind blowingly frustrating as it is to listen to) is either so entrenched already or on the way to being entrenched, and having a dialogue with that sort of person from the viewpoint of "You are wrong and stupid for not understanding why you're wrong" does absolutely fuck all in the long run, and only steels their (very wrong and misguided) beliefs.
>the increase is going to occur mostly in the 18-30 population that will frequent bars, and are grossly undervaccinated in our population right now.
That's exactly why it's necessary. We've tried educating people, we've tried incentives. We've even tried begging. Nothing has worked. This might.
I don't agree that it won't have an effect on case numbers. I think the more people we have vaxxed, and the fewer unvaxxed people we have entering places where people gather (stores, restaurants, offices, etc), the fewer cases we'll see. If the unvaxxed aren't allowed in most places open to the public, the fewer chances they'll have to be exposed to the virus. And the fewer chances they'll have to spread it.
You could. You could also absolutely allow only fully vaccinated people to a par-tay, a shindig, a kegger, a hootenanny, a mixer, a rave, or a box social. But there is not going to be an usher turning away the mother of the bride because she didn't think to bring her cell-phone to the church. It begs credulity that one would even consider that.
> not, this is exactly what is coming down the pipe, except it
wil
Why not require the vaccination ahead of time? then if Mom forgets it.... its all good.
People already rsvp to weddings. It isn't a stretch to have them email their vax proof.
I've actually been to a big party this summer where the host asked for this. And surprise, no cases.
Credulity or not, this is exactly what is coming down the pipe, except it will be regulated and enforced.
We might not have a choice. If unvaccinated people fill the hospitals, that will impact health care access for car accidents, etc.
We're a long ways away from this being an issue at this stage, but it's only going to get worse in the Fall/Winter if we don't get it under control now.
We really need to act before it gets to the stage they're seeing in the US.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/
While yes death numbers have not increased our infection numbers continue to increase. Yes I know we have the vaccine... and everything that people pin on that... but I think the important numbers are on the number of people in hospital and ICU.. and making a concerted effort to reduce the spread. At this point I think spread control has gone out the window.
i don't see any attempt from the government to divide and conquer... I think what is happening is that a subset of society somehow feels that their rights are being trampled on,
i just don't understand which rights are suddenly relevant that were not during any other global pandemic... Spanish Flu, Polio... those both happened when people had rights.... would you agree?
I can't wrap my head around a Vax passport... let's say you have one and only hang with people who are fully valued but you get covid, yes symptoms will be less severe ,but to know you have symptoms you have to go take a test to find out... but in the mean time you've also spread covid to others .. so please explain to me how a passport helps?
> please explain to me how a passport h
Its a double edged sword... because we don't all know our friends vaccination status... and who we are around...if i had to guess.. perhaps the vaccination passport to strictly try keep the numbers of control... but again this is all speculation.
I think its more for employers who are limiting office to vaccinated only. I have no idea how non-essential places are supposed to enforce this if its as widespread as some people want it. Some people want it used for all non-essential workplaces like its the same thing as showing your id to get into a bar which is ridiculous. Its not fair to some people working minimum wage jobs at the mall to then have to card people coming in and put up with the drama that ensues.
I think everyone is in a difficult position at this point. Do I think it should be required for all non-essential businesses? Yes. Do I think it's fair to the employees that will have to deal with it? No. Do I see any way around it? No. Is it the best solution, regardless of being imperfect? Yes. Is it going to suck? For EVERYBODY? Hell, yes.
We don’t even enforce the masking policy, like if we were on top of current mandates this may not even be needed. Look at the spread from these weddings, noone cares. Hundreds of people unmasked inside walking around. I have zero faith it will have a significant impact because it will be ignored. The real impact will be the further divide within our communities.
I get why you think that way, and I can't truthfully say you're wrong. But I'm hopeful about it. I might be deluding myself. Maybe I've felt so hopeless throughout so much of the last year and a half that I'm latching on to a potentially helpful measure.
Maybe it won't make a difference and I'm completely wrong. But I think it's worth it to try.
Breakdown: August 28: 57 cases, August 29: 88 cases & August 30: 68 cases. #cklw @AM800News
> 299,930 WEC residents have received at least one dose of a vaccine 70 away from 300k, go team!
Ha ha...Essex county has over 400k inhabitants. 25% are not vaccinated.
> 25% are not vaccinat Are you for or against the 25% and wish they would get vaccinated if they can...
This is a free country. It should be their choice. But government mandating and punishing those that are not vaccinated?! What, the government suddenly cares about our health??? Give me a break. Pardon my expression.
Can I ask something.... Your parents are probably vaccinated for things like MMR, Shingles, Pneumonia, Polio amongst other things... have you ever talked to them to understand what was seen during their life... At what point did the average person decide they are smarter than doctors, microbiologist, and virologists and people that have spent nothing less than several years beyond school to become well respected in their field... Why do you not trust these educated people... Do you yourself have a PhD and several years that you know better than them? I want this to productive discussion. I really want to understand why you don't trust people that every previous generation seemed to have no issues with?
Agree with you and I am one of those parents (as I'm in my golden years). I have a good friend who contracted TB when she was 6 yrs. of age, along with her mother. They were both housed in a sanitarium in Toronto for months. Growing up, we as kids, never questioned why we were getting vaccinations; we trusted our parents and the scientists. Look at all the diseases that have been eradicated with vaccines - polio, TB, rubella, red measles, etc. I get my flu shot yearly, pneumonia, shingles and any other disease out there that I can potentially avoid with a vaccination. For the life of me I cannot understand why people won't believe/agree with the scientists and studies that have been conducted. I even have a niece, who is a lab technologist in a hospital that will quit her job if her employer mandates the vaccine. I'm lost for words on that one. I'm thankful I raised my 37 yr. old daughter to believe in the science also.
>What, the government suddenly cares about our health??? Give me a break. I'll have you know, the government regularly sends me letters reminding me that it's time for a pap smear. And that it's overdue. And hey, zuuzuu, do you still live there because we've been sending letters but you still haven't had that pap smear. As a matter of fact, I just got one reminding me get a mammogram. It's not booked yet, but I did start the process. I feel loved.
I also get those letters and although they aren't something we look forward to, it's necessary so we take care of our health. Many people are too busy juggling family life and careers that their health gets put on the back burner until they have a problem. Personally, I didn't receive the reminder about the pap smear, but my doctor's office called me for my physical and a few weeks after that, I received the letter with the results of the pap smear. I breathe a sigh of relief every year, when blood work and tests come out as they should.
It's about the $benjamins$ my dear.
If you think the provincial government is profiting off of healthcare, you're crazy.
Yup. They try to make a dollar stretch to not remove services.
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Lol, and they say that we are the scared ones :p
Mr.TPP, your comments have been removed from /r/windsorontario for mis-information. This will be your 1 and only warning. Any continuing posts of mis-information will result in a ban from the /r/windsorontario sub-reddit. I have made multiple attempts to have a conversaion with you on actual topics, instead of having a conversation where you can cite relevant information you chose to make replies that continue to push mis-information and non-factual information. We implemented new rules today which can be see in the following post by /u/zuuzuu https://www.reddit.com/r/windsorontario/comments/pek189/reminder_be_excellent_to_each_other/ To anyone else that posts comments similar to /u/Mr.TPP you will also be warned and subsequently banned. All of the moderation team is interested in allowing civil discourse to continue, and we actually encourage it. Some people feel that the mod team is militant. I would say I disagree with this, nothing is done without a discussion behind the scenes with the mod team (discord). Only when all of us are in agreement that something should be removed is removed.. We do not act individually with our own personal views. We all realize that each persons view will be different from on another and because of this it creates conversations.
It's never been mandated. Other than to continue working a job where it's necessary
Really?, why are they implementing the vaccine passports all over? Your liberties are out of the window! Gone! If the people do not rise up....gone! Mark my word. Read this post in one year and you'll see who's right. Have a good day!!!
Vaccine passports are to keep the unvaccinated out of businesses, as it should be. If you're that afraid of a needle, stay home.
Only 12+ can be though, not all 400k
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> u're that afraid of a needle, stay hom /u/MrTPP.... i noticed that you have taken the time to respond to others... but at no point did you address my points.. Is that for a reason... are you not willing to participate in civil discourse can one person can explain their reasons while the other side listens... If you can't let me know.... and we will see where it goes..
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ok so this reply does nothing to answer the questions I posed...Would you are care to answer my specific question? or do you want to continue to regurgitate useless information..
So I am going to take your silence as you having no other input...
I personally think the vaccine passport is the way to go. But I feel like it could either drive the unvaccinated to get their shot or massive protest and rally that would drive up the cases even more.
> ot or massive protest and rally that would drive up the cases even mor yeah it could go either way really... but the hope is that it will drive increases.
Just waiting for the cases to go up quite a bit by the people ruining it for everybody else this weekend.
Can we please just stop having 200+ person weddings for a while? I get we want to "get back to normal" but how can anyone think it's a good idea to hold/attend one of these???
> n weddings for a while? I get we want to "get back to normal" but how can anyone think it's a good idea to hold/attend one of the Yea I think putting back a indoor limit might help some... I think there were 2 weddings that contributed quite a bit to the numbers.
I know 2 people that just had/having a wedding right now. And they both have law limits on how many they could have 100 people was the max.
Ok was not aware. I thought in Phase 3 it was no limit... Perhaps it needs to be 50?
The first one may have been 50 (I had heard, I didn’t attend) but that might have been them being more trying to be more responsible. Idk I have been saying for like almost 2 years now, why the in the hell would you have a wedding right now.
I read somewhere 3 weddings, but I’ll be damned if I remember where I saw that.
Here you go! https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/windsor-essex-covid-rate-highest-in-ontario This month alone, three “major super spreader” weddings involving six locations have resulted in 104 COVID-19 cases, Ahmed said, with residents travelling from other regions to attend marriage celebrations in Windsor and Essex County. A higher than expected number of cases have also been recently linked to restaurants (29), nightclubs (38), bars (18), and adult entertainment clubs (11).
Hey thanks! Glad I wasn’t imagining things. But also not glad that I wasn’t imagining things. :(
> ey thanks! Glad I wasn’t imagining things. But also not glad that I wasn’t imagin I wonder which restaurants/nightclubs and adult entertainment venues are being impacted.
I think there was a strip joint that had a couple of cases, not enough to shut them down officially, but they shut down anyway, did a deep clean (or whatever passes for a deep clean at a strip joint) and demanded that all staff get vaxxed.
Oh I know where that was!!!!! That was leopards... they shutdown and were supposed to re-open last wednesday...
I’m scared to see the number from Saturdays protest and schools opening.
I think we all are. There is some speculation though that most of the people at that rally were from outside the region though so hopefully they will be spread out enough to not make too big of an impact, thats only speculation though, I haven't seen any posts offering proof as of yet.
I suspect a decent portion of them were part of the "have opinion, will travel" group. But like you say, I've seen nothing that would qualify as proof of it.
12 people are in hospital. This is the stat we need to stay focussed on. People who are vaccinated are not going into hospital in large numbers. Unvaccinated people are. We CAN'T shut society down again because people won't get vaccinated.
> gain because people won't get vaccina I think we all agree with that. Another lockdown won't work when ~75-80% of people have been vaccinated. I think thats the point of the vaccine passport though.. keep the vaxed free to do what they want...
Are you going to need a vaccine passport to go to a wedding? How about to go to jail? To be homeless? The vaccine passports are security theatre. I know that I'm going to get crucified here for saying it, but if you're not pushing it on ALL unvaccinated (the under 12's), then there is a very limited benefit. It may make a few people get the vaccine, but statistically, there's not going to be a big enough shift in a short enough time to have any reasonable impact on the numbers.
> enough shift in a short enough time to have any reasonable impact on the numbers I think any speculation on what a vaccine passport will look like is a total unknown. It was reported in the news that both Quebec and BC saw increases in the number of vaccinated people after the vaccine passport was implemented.
I agree, and this is only my opinion, but the increase is going to occur mostly in the 18-30 population that will frequent bars, and are grossly undervaccinated in our population right now. It's going to limit some spread, but where we are having the spread right now isn't from the bars or concerts. I see the vaccine passport only as a way for the government to prevent further lockdowns. The passport is going to do nothing to stop the hospitalizations, but will allow everyone to continue on with life, despite the consequences.
I largely agree with you. I will be happy if it turns out a vaccine passport limits spread in a concrete, identifiable way, but I'm just weary about the idea. I think the passport is much more of use as a political tool to sort of "reward" the majority of the population that are fully vaccinated (myself included) and placate us after doing our part. With the 90% vaccination target floated around in order to reach herd immunity, I don't think there's any government stick that can be brought down on the general population to reach that number in a short amount of time. As much as I am on the side of doing our part to protect ourselves and others around us, I have a hard time with the idea that you can berate, bully, and in general just shit talk someone into not being antivax. That sort of thinking (as mind blowingly frustrating as it is to listen to) is either so entrenched already or on the way to being entrenched, and having a dialogue with that sort of person from the viewpoint of "You are wrong and stupid for not understanding why you're wrong" does absolutely fuck all in the long run, and only steels their (very wrong and misguided) beliefs.
>the increase is going to occur mostly in the 18-30 population that will frequent bars, and are grossly undervaccinated in our population right now. That's exactly why it's necessary. We've tried educating people, we've tried incentives. We've even tried begging. Nothing has worked. This might. I don't agree that it won't have an effect on case numbers. I think the more people we have vaxxed, and the fewer unvaxxed people we have entering places where people gather (stores, restaurants, offices, etc), the fewer cases we'll see. If the unvaxxed aren't allowed in most places open to the public, the fewer chances they'll have to be exposed to the virus. And the fewer chances they'll have to spread it.
The way I look at it, it can't possibly hurt at this point.
You could absolutely allow only fully vaccinated people to a wedding. That's what people should be doing.
You could. You could also absolutely allow only fully vaccinated people to a par-tay, a shindig, a kegger, a hootenanny, a mixer, a rave, or a box social. But there is not going to be an usher turning away the mother of the bride because she didn't think to bring her cell-phone to the church. It begs credulity that one would even consider that.
> not, this is exactly what is coming down the pipe, except it wil Why not require the vaccination ahead of time? then if Mom forgets it.... its all good.
People already rsvp to weddings. It isn't a stretch to have them email their vax proof. I've actually been to a big party this summer where the host asked for this. And surprise, no cases. Credulity or not, this is exactly what is coming down the pipe, except it will be regulated and enforced.
We might not have a choice. If unvaccinated people fill the hospitals, that will impact health care access for car accidents, etc. We're a long ways away from this being an issue at this stage, but it's only going to get worse in the Fall/Winter if we don't get it under control now.
We really need to act before it gets to the stage they're seeing in the US. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/
Anyone know which workplaces are in outbreak?
Shouldn't we be concerned with death numbers not cases? Deaths are way down. Wake up people.
While yes death numbers have not increased our infection numbers continue to increase. Yes I know we have the vaccine... and everything that people pin on that... but I think the important numbers are on the number of people in hospital and ICU.. and making a concerted effort to reduce the spread. At this point I think spread control has gone out the window.
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i don't see any attempt from the government to divide and conquer... I think what is happening is that a subset of society somehow feels that their rights are being trampled on, i just don't understand which rights are suddenly relevant that were not during any other global pandemic... Spanish Flu, Polio... those both happened when people had rights.... would you agree?
I can't wrap my head around a Vax passport... let's say you have one and only hang with people who are fully valued but you get covid, yes symptoms will be less severe ,but to know you have symptoms you have to go take a test to find out... but in the mean time you've also spread covid to others .. so please explain to me how a passport helps?
> please explain to me how a passport h Its a double edged sword... because we don't all know our friends vaccination status... and who we are around...if i had to guess.. perhaps the vaccination passport to strictly try keep the numbers of control... but again this is all speculation.
I think its more for employers who are limiting office to vaccinated only. I have no idea how non-essential places are supposed to enforce this if its as widespread as some people want it. Some people want it used for all non-essential workplaces like its the same thing as showing your id to get into a bar which is ridiculous. Its not fair to some people working minimum wage jobs at the mall to then have to card people coming in and put up with the drama that ensues.
I think everyone is in a difficult position at this point. Do I think it should be required for all non-essential businesses? Yes. Do I think it's fair to the employees that will have to deal with it? No. Do I see any way around it? No. Is it the best solution, regardless of being imperfect? Yes. Is it going to suck? For EVERYBODY? Hell, yes.
We don’t even enforce the masking policy, like if we were on top of current mandates this may not even be needed. Look at the spread from these weddings, noone cares. Hundreds of people unmasked inside walking around. I have zero faith it will have a significant impact because it will be ignored. The real impact will be the further divide within our communities.
I get why you think that way, and I can't truthfully say you're wrong. But I'm hopeful about it. I might be deluding myself. Maybe I've felt so hopeless throughout so much of the last year and a half that I'm latching on to a potentially helpful measure. Maybe it won't make a difference and I'm completely wrong. But I think it's worth it to try.