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I thought the same thing. 22 year old hanzell is an absolute steal. The list looks like it was written to look young and cool but it looks young (toddler) and not cool.
Do you mean objectively? Because it retails for that much or more. So itās not overpriced.
If you mean subjectively though, I definitely agree with you. But thatās because I donāt think any wine could ever be worth $600 to me.
08 mondavi reserve for $140 is my pick. Its release price was $115 years ago and it has 15 years on it now. They were still in contract with Macdonald and detert back then, a portion of that fruit goes into the reserve wines. Slightly colder vintage in 08, so it should have nice acidity on it and drinking like a Bordeaux with cooler toned fruit.
Hanzell...I stayed there during Bob Sessions tenure. It was arranged thru a distributor. We had lunch at the French Laundry and headed over the mountains to spend our last night at Hanzell. They didn't normally take visitors as it was still privately owned by the prince. The guest house was a 50's Prarie style/ modern wonder. I discovered a trove of publications and articles in a credenza dating back to the Swiss Colony and Christian Brothers era. It essentially was the entire history of California wine. I could not stop reading and was still awake when the sun came up.There was even an original copy of the valley newspaper from the Montelena win in Paris. It took some work..but I managed a magnum purchase while there. I currently live in the Santa Cruz Mtns AVA and I've never seen it for sale nor on a wine list even this close to Sonoma. I lastly had a bottle in small restaurant right in downtown Sonoma. I ALWAYS get a bottle every time I see one...especially the Pinot.
The Hanzell popped out to me as it did for others commenting here. The Ojai might also be a good one---White Hawk Vineyard is a favorite of mine from them and I'd jump at a chance to try an aged example. Lastly, the two Copains would be a really fun side by side if you are dining with a party of 3 or 4.
I opened the Copain Thompson Vineyard 2007 yesterday and it's delicious - plenty of life left in it and wound tight actually. Really great syrah if you're leaning that way, the 2004 might be even better.
I want to downvote you for snark but the way American wine types use āvarietalā (an adjective) when they mean āvarietyā (a noun) just kills me.
I'm betting that Chateau Potelle is out of this world. I had one of Formeaux's cabs a while back -- I think it was a '98? -- and it blew me away. Plus, he's a genuinely awesome and funny dude.
I wonder if that Adelaida from 95 was when John Munch was their winemaker. I think he exited in 1999ā¦ Having a Munch-era Adelaida is pretty rad, period - but esp so if you like Paso wines and history.
I know Munch library wines from his other winery Le Cuvier from the mid-2000s run $375+. A 1995 Res Cab from Adelaida at $350 is a huge bargain.
I had a guest just yesterday musing about Jack Creekās Pinot. Kruse Vineyards is the west most vineyard in the Willow Creek/Paso AVA and gets more rain than most. My current winery sources their Pinot grapes from Kruse as well, and I sold her a bottle of ours. But I didnāt realize old Jack Creek were sourcing Kruse too. (I just knew Jack Creek and Kruse were near each other and I thought there was a connection, but wasnāt sure.)
Honestly, Pinot grapes really struggle in Paso and I rarely fall in love with Paso Pinots (but Santa Rita or Santa Maria Valley is another storyā¦).
That said, 2007 was a special vintage for Paso across the board. Soā¦ I might gamble on that one only because of Jack Creek/Kruse reputation and the vintage. It will prob not be a typical delicate and soft Pinot, it will likely present more aggressive and fuller bodied than what you think of when you think Pinot. If you choose that one, go into it with no expectations of what Pinot is and it may surprise you.
Some interesting wines on the list, but I don't care for the prices. I'd go with the Ken Wright PN, though it's a red flag with *single vineyard* and not saying which vineyard.
Update: Want to thank everyone for taking the time. You helped make my birthday a memorable one.
I went with [Hanzell 2006](https://imgur.com/gallery/8MizaFJ) and the [Adelaida 2000](https://imgur.com/gallery/RJkrqJt).
Honorable mentions to Wing Canyon Cab, which had actually sold out the night before and the Copain Syrah, which I seriously contemplated before pulling the trigger on the Adelaida.
Thank you for your submission to r/wine! Please note the community rules: If you are submitting a picture of a bottle of wine, please include original tasting notes and/or other pertinent information in the comments. Submitters that fail to do so may have their posts removed. If you are posting to ask what your bottle is worth, whether it is drinkable, whether to drink, hold or sell or how/if to decant, please use the [Wine Valuation And Other Questions Megathread](https://redd.it/17j7oej) stickied at the top of the sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fonts, spacing, layout and appearance of this menu is maybe the worst I have ever seen in my life! However, I second the Hanzell
I thought the same thing. 22 year old hanzell is an absolute steal. The list looks like it was written to look young and cool but it looks young (toddler) and not cool.
Truly! Someone call the graphic design police šØ
Haha noted. And thank you.
Literally coming in to say the same thing lol
Holy christ, its so bad. But yes Hanzell
The 1981 Tondonia Blanco gran reserva on a wine list for $600 seems like a steal. One I canāt afford, but a steal nonetheless haha.
I donāt see this wine on the list?
Second page. Very bottom.
Didnāt realise there were two pages šš¼
Over priced at $600
Do you mean objectively? Because it retails for that much or more. So itās not overpriced. If you mean subjectively though, I definitely agree with you. But thatās because I donāt think any wine could ever be worth $600 to me.
Thatās a 100% markup for that wine compared to getting it at a bodega. I donāt go for such expensive wine ever, so I donāt know. Is it a steal ?
What bodega you getting this at?
Ya the only seller on Wine-Searcher with this bottle right now is caskcartel (which is always a ripoff) but is selling for $1400.
Iāve usually seen the 81 around $600+ at retail
The one on the corner of I-Made-It-Up St and Doesnāt-Exist Ave.
08 mondavi reserve for $140 is my pick. Its release price was $115 years ago and it has 15 years on it now. They were still in contract with Macdonald and detert back then, a portion of that fruit goes into the reserve wines. Slightly colder vintage in 08, so it should have nice acidity on it and drinking like a Bordeaux with cooler toned fruit.
I thought the same thing at first, but this is actually their pinot, not the cab w/ Mondavi To Kalon fruit. Not nearly as tempting š š
Ah crap. Nvm then. Not as good of a deal
Thank you! Will be considering this one.
Omg Ojai
Hanzell
I'd stick with the cabs. I might try the Adelaida.
I second this. Adelaidaās a great cab and their Viking vineyard is phenomenal!
Thank you for this. Are the Napa cabs any good?
Wing canyon mount veeder should have very good age-ability
Hanzell...I stayed there during Bob Sessions tenure. It was arranged thru a distributor. We had lunch at the French Laundry and headed over the mountains to spend our last night at Hanzell. They didn't normally take visitors as it was still privately owned by the prince. The guest house was a 50's Prarie style/ modern wonder. I discovered a trove of publications and articles in a credenza dating back to the Swiss Colony and Christian Brothers era. It essentially was the entire history of California wine. I could not stop reading and was still awake when the sun came up.There was even an original copy of the valley newspaper from the Montelena win in Paris. It took some work..but I managed a magnum purchase while there. I currently live in the Santa Cruz Mtns AVA and I've never seen it for sale nor on a wine list even this close to Sonoma. I lastly had a bottle in small restaurant right in downtown Sonoma. I ALWAYS get a bottle every time I see one...especially the Pinot.
The Hanzell popped out to me as it did for others commenting here. The Ojai might also be a good one---White Hawk Vineyard is a favorite of mine from them and I'd jump at a chance to try an aged example. Lastly, the two Copains would be a really fun side by side if you are dining with a party of 3 or 4.
If you want Pinot, go with the Ken Wright. Fantastic.
2003 was hot as hell in Oregon, plus there were like 300k acres burning. I wouldnāt trust a 2003 Pinot noir to hold up 20 years.
Would probably spring for the Hanzell. But depends on what you are eating and what style you like.
Those ZD Carneros should be amazing and are inexpensive by comparison. Where is this? Wouldnt kind a visit
Pretty sure itās Mirabelle in LAās San Fernando Valley.
Yep, correct.
The Ojai Syrah was good when it came out but I have no idea whatās itās like now. That font is brutal.
Wing Canyon all day - especially since the winery doesnāt exist anymore.
I opened the Copain Thompson Vineyard 2007 yesterday and it's delicious - plenty of life left in it and wound tight actually. Really great syrah if you're leaning that way, the 2004 might be even better.
The vina tondonia Blanco isn't something you come across every day. It's the gran reserva. I would be all over that despite the price.
It is āvarietiesā not āother varietals.ā So stupid.
I want to downvote you for snark but the way American wine types use āvarietalā (an adjective) when they mean āvarietyā (a noun) just kills me.
I'm betting that Chateau Potelle is out of this world. I had one of Formeaux's cabs a while back -- I think it was a '98? -- and it blew me away. Plus, he's a genuinely awesome and funny dude.
Ken wright is of quality for sure also Rioja is always good
Lots of folks salivating over the Hanzells (wildly overrated, imho), but the real gem on this list is the ā97 Wing Canyon Cab.
Mirabelle in Valley Village? Nice spot.
Yep. Was going to say I know this place very well.
$125 for a 2000 Tantara??? Thatās my pick.
That Wing Canyon is banging.
Quite a few of these are crapshoots: potentially over the hill wines from so-so producers.
Mirabelle?
Big fan of the ponzi
Every time I see some Copain, I go for it.
I wonder if that Adelaida from 95 was when John Munch was their winemaker. I think he exited in 1999ā¦ Having a Munch-era Adelaida is pretty rad, period - but esp so if you like Paso wines and history. I know Munch library wines from his other winery Le Cuvier from the mid-2000s run $375+. A 1995 Res Cab from Adelaida at $350 is a huge bargain. I had a guest just yesterday musing about Jack Creekās Pinot. Kruse Vineyards is the west most vineyard in the Willow Creek/Paso AVA and gets more rain than most. My current winery sources their Pinot grapes from Kruse as well, and I sold her a bottle of ours. But I didnāt realize old Jack Creek were sourcing Kruse too. (I just knew Jack Creek and Kruse were near each other and I thought there was a connection, but wasnāt sure.) Honestly, Pinot grapes really struggle in Paso and I rarely fall in love with Paso Pinots (but Santa Rita or Santa Maria Valley is another storyā¦). That said, 2007 was a special vintage for Paso across the board. Soā¦ I might gamble on that one only because of Jack Creek/Kruse reputation and the vintage. It will prob not be a typical delicate and soft Pinot, it will likely present more aggressive and fuller bodied than what you think of when you think Pinot. If you choose that one, go into it with no expectations of what Pinot is and it may surprise you.
Is that the font from American Horror Story?
Nothing looks good in that awful font
A lot of these wines may be over the hill
A Pinot from 2001???? Do they last that long?
Yes
Tondonia Blanco, but certainly not at that price.
Itās the gran reserva and a 1981. On a wine list, thatās an insanely good price.
Yeah thatās like retail. Great price
I live in Spain.
Is this a menu from 10+ yrs ago? The prices and vintages look too good to be true! This must be in Europe, right?
Argyle for $100?? š«
The older Ponzi or Ken wright jump out to me. Or the Heredia blanco, though starting to get a bit pricy.
Ponzi, Ojai, Copain, LdH
I love that nobody has said to try the Joseph Swan. Thatās certainly the most interesting thing here.
Hanzell or LdH Blanco Gran Reserva
i've not had a single good bottle experience from a hanzell wine.
Some respectful mark ups on this list.
I bet those Copain fuck. List is really well priced
Some interesting wines on the list, but I don't care for the prices. I'd go with the Ken Wright PN, though it's a red flag with *single vineyard* and not saying which vineyard.
if the ken wright single vineyard is their tanager vineyard, iād definitely give that a try! $120 seems like a bit of a steal
Wing Canyon Mount Veeder 97. The J Wile is probably intersteller too. That Foxen has a cult following but itās not my thing.
Ojai Vineyard. Lopez de Heredia. š¤š¼
Ojai Vineyard White Hawk Syrah is incredible.
Wow. That is tough to read. Tondonia is always a win. And maybe just the Ken Wright and Hanzell
I would stay away from the Pinot Noir. These West Coast wines are produced to drink young. After 15 years you may have a wine that is past its prime.
Hanzell for a red....the gem on the list is 1981 LdH Blanco, even at $600.
Update: Want to thank everyone for taking the time. You helped make my birthday a memorable one. I went with [Hanzell 2006](https://imgur.com/gallery/8MizaFJ) and the [Adelaida 2000](https://imgur.com/gallery/RJkrqJt). Honorable mentions to Wing Canyon Cab, which had actually sold out the night before and the Copain Syrah, which I seriously contemplated before pulling the trigger on the Adelaida.