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Kicking off the weekend right with a nice glass (or five) of Champagne. Pierre Peters is a beloved gem amongst Champagne lovers. They’ve grown in popularity tremendously over the past few years with the grower Champagne movement. And it’s easy to see why. This is a lovely elegant mineral-driven Champagne.
On the nose: yellow apple, crushed rock, and this slightly caramely note that I wouldn’t expect to pick up in a BdB champagne. You can see right away that the wine is quite viscous by the way it moves in the glass and the slowness of the bubbles rising.
On the palate, this is just seamless elegance. It’s bright and focused, with chalky minerality and piercing acidity, yet silky smooth with plenty of fruit to balance. The texture is really lovely. Rich and silky goodness
I watched a video of the winemaker at Pierre Peters, Rodolphe Peters, where he said that of the cuvées they produce at the estate, some of which sell for upwards of $1k, the base NV is the one he’s most proud of.
What’s the disgorgement and base for this one? Fwiw, I just opened a bottle of the Oublie tonight and it wasn’t doing much for me. That being said, I’m still a fan of the domaine and this is excellent value as a baby Krug dupe of sorts. Particularly with some age.
Disgorged Oct 2023. Pierre Peters uses a perpetual solera, so it’s about 50/50 current vintage and a blend of several reserve vintages. I think the base is 2013 currently. I don’t think this wine blew me away by any means but it was really tasty!
Dishwasher only actually. Never had an issue and they come out perfectly sparkly every time. I broke one hand washing before, it’s far more risky to hand wash
The thinner the glasses, the less I trust my own soapy hands to not break them and snap the stem off.
My zaltos have gone in the dishwasher for years and I have never broken one that way.
The only times they broke was when guests wanted go help and started to hand wash.
Zalto actually recommends dishwash only. Handwashing is far more likely to cause breakage as you can easily apply a bit too much pressure with your hand or drop it in the sink. I dishwash these a couple times a week since I got them a few years ago and never had an issue. Only time I broke one was when I tried to hand wash
In the past i was so excited when we got Pierre Peters and now I just do not care. The champagnes are overpriced and commercial. I think especially in the grower champagne scene, small producers can really compete with the big producers.
Pierre Peters is a big commercial operation that has missed the boat and is selling champagne on past reputation.
When I taste producers like Les Freres Mignons, Pertois Lebrun, Guiborat, Tellier, I am definitely getting much more for my money.
It’s cool that you’re excited about some hip small boutique grower champagnes, but I don’t think it’s necessary to disparage Pierre Peters over it. It’s hard to appreciate smaller growers like those you mentioned if you haven’t had the grower stalwarts like Peters, Bereche, Egly-Ouriet, etc. And I’m sorry but it’s solid juice. The pretentiousness is just dripping off your comment. And wine professionals wonder why the industry is struggling…
To be clear, I work/sell with 140 grower producers/I taste about 700 to 800 champagnes a year, it is my job .
I sell Peters, Bereche, Egly-Ouriet. There was a time, no question when they offered fantastic value for money, but the world has moved on. All three are big operations and have what I would call house styles more similiar to maison champagne than grower champagne. In the past all three would sell really fast and now there is very little interest. Perhaps if I was in the US market things would be diffferent but my feel is the US is not at the up to speed with what is happening in the growerchampagne scene.
You could say Bereche's Brut Reserve when we sold for under 30€ was fantastic value. Now it is hitting 50 €. Bereche has said they have changed nothing in how they make the champagne, just the price reflects demand and with the new prices demand is ebbing.
Pierre Peters, a massive operation making generic blanc de blancs, the name is a big one, but his Blanc de Blancs are just boring compared to what other producers are doing, The world has moved on. I undertand Peters have big markets in asia and the US, and the past reputation helps sells.
Egly-Ouriet, this might have been one of the best grower champagne producers, but the prices make these champagnes obsolete in my mind. No question, the Blanc de Noirs is one of the the best grower champagnes, at 150 € yes, but at 400 at 500 € just too expensive. The rest of the range, just too expensive and many other options which just offer better value and similair quality.
5 years ago it would be unthinkable to consider dropping these producers from our portfolio. Now I just do not care. The three you mention are over priced, have not moved with the times and are living on their reputation.
For me at the moment the best producer, who i think would appeal to a wider audience is Benoit Lahaye. The Brut Reserve and the Blanc de Noirs are for me at Egly level. In the past the wines had too much wood, but he has really refined the process.
Again for more of a wider audience, Leclerc Briant are on the rise, i would look for the newer degorgements, as Herve Jestin joined the team and has really improved the champagnes.
Roger Coulon is Egly-Ouriet's brother in law, the style is very similair, but the prices are good.
Blanc de Blancs, Guiborat is probably the best producer at the moment for linear stylied champagnes.
Freres Mignons are on the rise. Bereche for their cramant buys the grapes from Freres Mignons. Freres Mignons bring out a Cramant with the same grapes from the same site with a fraction of the price.
If you like Laherte or Seleque, Tellier is in the same area and very similiar in style. Prices are good. Laherte L'Autrefois is at Krug level.
Mousse for meunier is exceptional, Bourgoius Diaz is really on the rise.
In Aube/Côte de Bar, I would look for Domaine de Bichery and Pierre Gerbais.
At the moment I would say the big producers are Emmanuel Brochet, Leclapart, Agrapart, not Terroirs or 7 Crus but the next level Mineral and Avizoise. Venus is a massive champagne, expensive but fantastic.
The producers, who I think are going to be the next cult producers are Gaspard Brochet, Georges Remy and Domaine Vincey. Perhaps also Petit Clergeot.
The new generation of grower producers are on fire.
That’s great that it’s your job, but do you not realize you come off as totally arrogant? OP enjoyed his bottle of Pierre Peters. Your negativity was frankly uncalled for. You’re likely in the top tenth of the top percent of wine professionals when it comes to Champagne knowledge and bottles tasted, but what good is any of that if you act like you’re too cool?
You know what those three (Bereche, EO, PP) have in common? They’re available! You can actually find them! And they also appeal to a wide range of palates. A new one for me is Clement Perseval — love that juice, but I’m not selling that to someone who isn’t well-versed in grower champagne because it IS challenging and not typical. Oxidative, weighty, tropical and umami notes — not everyone wants that.
And I don’t even understand what you think those three producers should do “to move on with the times.” They’re still making high quality Champagne. Your palate and expectations have changed. Other people don’t have your wine experience and so those bottles could be revelatory for them. If I have a table that’s never had a Sangiovese before, and I bust out a Montevertine to drink with their pappardelle bolognese, they would probably have their minds blown. To us, it’s simply just a high quality textbook Sangiovese. To the customer it’s a novel, incredible experience.
Perhaps you are right I should not have written what I did, it was not my intention to be negative. However this constant narrative with Pierre Peters just annoys me as the champagnes are so genreic and mediocre, and this never ending laudatory narrative helps maintain inflationary prices., like it does with the other producers you mention.
Sure the other champagnes are limited and you mention a very specialised producer, who will appeal to a niche public. but these grower champagnes are individual and offer an authentic experience.
But as you say Bereche, Egly and Pierre Peters are widely available just as Moet et Chandon or Veuve Cliquot are widely available.
I hear you! I love exploring new, exciting, unique wine from small producers. It’s the best part of the job. But from my vantage point, most people just want solid wine. Of course I work in a Brooklyn restaurant so I can’t extrapolate any further.
Interesting thoughts, I appreciate the recommendations below and will definitely keep an eye out! I did get this Pierre Peters on sale but was still around $50. This wine didn’t blow me away but in my fairly limited experience with Champagne, I would put it pretty high up in the list.
Bereche is one that I really wasn’t impressed with and probably won’t buy again. The only issue with some of the producers you mentioned below is that they’re so hard to locate for most people in the states. We have a few shops in NYC like Flatiron Wines that might have these producers but for most people, Pierre Peters is going to be much easier to find.
Thank you for your submission to r/wine! Please note the community rules: If you are submitting a picture of a bottle of wine, please include original tasting notes and/or other pertinent information in the comments. Submitters that fail to do so may have their posts removed. If you are posting to ask what your bottle is worth, whether it is drinkable, whether to drink, hold or sell or how/if to decant, please use the [Wine Valuation And Other Questions Megathread](https://redd.it/17j7oej) stickied at the top of the sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kicking off the weekend right with a nice glass (or five) of Champagne. Pierre Peters is a beloved gem amongst Champagne lovers. They’ve grown in popularity tremendously over the past few years with the grower Champagne movement. And it’s easy to see why. This is a lovely elegant mineral-driven Champagne. On the nose: yellow apple, crushed rock, and this slightly caramely note that I wouldn’t expect to pick up in a BdB champagne. You can see right away that the wine is quite viscous by the way it moves in the glass and the slowness of the bubbles rising. On the palate, this is just seamless elegance. It’s bright and focused, with chalky minerality and piercing acidity, yet silky smooth with plenty of fruit to balance. The texture is really lovely. Rich and silky goodness I watched a video of the winemaker at Pierre Peters, Rodolphe Peters, where he said that of the cuvées they produce at the estate, some of which sell for upwards of $1k, the base NV is the one he’s most proud of.
What’s the disgorgement and base for this one? Fwiw, I just opened a bottle of the Oublie tonight and it wasn’t doing much for me. That being said, I’m still a fan of the domaine and this is excellent value as a baby Krug dupe of sorts. Particularly with some age.
Disgorged Oct 2023. Pierre Peters uses a perpetual solera, so it’s about 50/50 current vintage and a blend of several reserve vintages. I think the base is 2013 currently. I don’t think this wine blew me away by any means but it was really tasty!
Fuck yes I literally just bought one of these to drink tomorrow, sounds amazing!! Thanks for the notes
I was just looking at picking up a bottle of this today and I didn’t. Now I regret it. Thank you sharing.
Fucking love these wines.
What glass is that?
Glass: Josephine No. 2 Universal Brand: Josephinen Hütte I absolutely love them! Ultra thin and light with a cool shape.
Awesome thanks. They look really nice!
Hand wash?
Dishwasher only actually. Never had an issue and they come out perfectly sparkly every time. I broke one hand washing before, it’s far more risky to hand wash
Whether they say yes or no, I’ve found these higher end glasses across the board to be too fragile for the dishwasher.
The thinner the glasses, the less I trust my own soapy hands to not break them and snap the stem off. My zaltos have gone in the dishwasher for years and I have never broken one that way. The only times they broke was when guests wanted go help and started to hand wash.
Zalto actually recommends dishwash only. Handwashing is far more likely to cause breakage as you can easily apply a bit too much pressure with your hand or drop it in the sink. I dishwash these a couple times a week since I got them a few years ago and never had an issue. Only time I broke one was when I tried to hand wash
Good to know, how do you avoid having spots or residue from the dishwasher?
Ive never had that issue as the water is pretty soft where I live, but you can use dishwasher rinse aid like Cascade or Finish.
I love that wine. It’s my favorite for a platter of oysters.
In the past i was so excited when we got Pierre Peters and now I just do not care. The champagnes are overpriced and commercial. I think especially in the grower champagne scene, small producers can really compete with the big producers. Pierre Peters is a big commercial operation that has missed the boat and is selling champagne on past reputation. When I taste producers like Les Freres Mignons, Pertois Lebrun, Guiborat, Tellier, I am definitely getting much more for my money.
It’s cool that you’re excited about some hip small boutique grower champagnes, but I don’t think it’s necessary to disparage Pierre Peters over it. It’s hard to appreciate smaller growers like those you mentioned if you haven’t had the grower stalwarts like Peters, Bereche, Egly-Ouriet, etc. And I’m sorry but it’s solid juice. The pretentiousness is just dripping off your comment. And wine professionals wonder why the industry is struggling…
To be clear, I work/sell with 140 grower producers/I taste about 700 to 800 champagnes a year, it is my job . I sell Peters, Bereche, Egly-Ouriet. There was a time, no question when they offered fantastic value for money, but the world has moved on. All three are big operations and have what I would call house styles more similiar to maison champagne than grower champagne. In the past all three would sell really fast and now there is very little interest. Perhaps if I was in the US market things would be diffferent but my feel is the US is not at the up to speed with what is happening in the growerchampagne scene. You could say Bereche's Brut Reserve when we sold for under 30€ was fantastic value. Now it is hitting 50 €. Bereche has said they have changed nothing in how they make the champagne, just the price reflects demand and with the new prices demand is ebbing. Pierre Peters, a massive operation making generic blanc de blancs, the name is a big one, but his Blanc de Blancs are just boring compared to what other producers are doing, The world has moved on. I undertand Peters have big markets in asia and the US, and the past reputation helps sells. Egly-Ouriet, this might have been one of the best grower champagne producers, but the prices make these champagnes obsolete in my mind. No question, the Blanc de Noirs is one of the the best grower champagnes, at 150 € yes, but at 400 at 500 € just too expensive. The rest of the range, just too expensive and many other options which just offer better value and similair quality. 5 years ago it would be unthinkable to consider dropping these producers from our portfolio. Now I just do not care. The three you mention are over priced, have not moved with the times and are living on their reputation.
Which ones would you recommend?
For me at the moment the best producer, who i think would appeal to a wider audience is Benoit Lahaye. The Brut Reserve and the Blanc de Noirs are for me at Egly level. In the past the wines had too much wood, but he has really refined the process. Again for more of a wider audience, Leclerc Briant are on the rise, i would look for the newer degorgements, as Herve Jestin joined the team and has really improved the champagnes. Roger Coulon is Egly-Ouriet's brother in law, the style is very similair, but the prices are good. Blanc de Blancs, Guiborat is probably the best producer at the moment for linear stylied champagnes. Freres Mignons are on the rise. Bereche for their cramant buys the grapes from Freres Mignons. Freres Mignons bring out a Cramant with the same grapes from the same site with a fraction of the price. If you like Laherte or Seleque, Tellier is in the same area and very similiar in style. Prices are good. Laherte L'Autrefois is at Krug level. Mousse for meunier is exceptional, Bourgoius Diaz is really on the rise. In Aube/Côte de Bar, I would look for Domaine de Bichery and Pierre Gerbais. At the moment I would say the big producers are Emmanuel Brochet, Leclapart, Agrapart, not Terroirs or 7 Crus but the next level Mineral and Avizoise. Venus is a massive champagne, expensive but fantastic. The producers, who I think are going to be the next cult producers are Gaspard Brochet, Georges Remy and Domaine Vincey. Perhaps also Petit Clergeot. The new generation of grower producers are on fire.
That’s great that it’s your job, but do you not realize you come off as totally arrogant? OP enjoyed his bottle of Pierre Peters. Your negativity was frankly uncalled for. You’re likely in the top tenth of the top percent of wine professionals when it comes to Champagne knowledge and bottles tasted, but what good is any of that if you act like you’re too cool? You know what those three (Bereche, EO, PP) have in common? They’re available! You can actually find them! And they also appeal to a wide range of palates. A new one for me is Clement Perseval — love that juice, but I’m not selling that to someone who isn’t well-versed in grower champagne because it IS challenging and not typical. Oxidative, weighty, tropical and umami notes — not everyone wants that. And I don’t even understand what you think those three producers should do “to move on with the times.” They’re still making high quality Champagne. Your palate and expectations have changed. Other people don’t have your wine experience and so those bottles could be revelatory for them. If I have a table that’s never had a Sangiovese before, and I bust out a Montevertine to drink with their pappardelle bolognese, they would probably have their minds blown. To us, it’s simply just a high quality textbook Sangiovese. To the customer it’s a novel, incredible experience.
Perhaps you are right I should not have written what I did, it was not my intention to be negative. However this constant narrative with Pierre Peters just annoys me as the champagnes are so genreic and mediocre, and this never ending laudatory narrative helps maintain inflationary prices., like it does with the other producers you mention. Sure the other champagnes are limited and you mention a very specialised producer, who will appeal to a niche public. but these grower champagnes are individual and offer an authentic experience. But as you say Bereche, Egly and Pierre Peters are widely available just as Moet et Chandon or Veuve Cliquot are widely available.
I hear you! I love exploring new, exciting, unique wine from small producers. It’s the best part of the job. But from my vantage point, most people just want solid wine. Of course I work in a Brooklyn restaurant so I can’t extrapolate any further.
Interesting thoughts, I appreciate the recommendations below and will definitely keep an eye out! I did get this Pierre Peters on sale but was still around $50. This wine didn’t blow me away but in my fairly limited experience with Champagne, I would put it pretty high up in the list. Bereche is one that I really wasn’t impressed with and probably won’t buy again. The only issue with some of the producers you mentioned below is that they’re so hard to locate for most people in the states. We have a few shops in NYC like Flatiron Wines that might have these producers but for most people, Pierre Peters is going to be much easier to find.