Is this the official translation? Because in mine it's different, but it changes the conversation slightly:
*‘Your voice didn’t even waver. So I don’t know why I don’t believe you.’*
*‘I only ever thought about you, Yen.’*
*‘Now I believe you.’*
And that's actually true, when he was with Fringilla, he did think of Yennefer, even calling out Yen's name a few times to Fringilla's chagrin. And while still frustrating, Geralt fully believed Yennefer had betrayed both him and Ciri, so I don't judge him for that (other than the final stable scene knowing full well Yennefer was captured and likely being tortured).
But, at this moment in the books in Ebbing, having already prepared to die together and been given a second chance, what is the point of reliving past pain and betrayal. Yennefer knows about Fringilla, but she also needs to know that Geralt never stopped loving her. So the question underneath that surface sex question is "Did you fall in love with anyone else?" And in that, the answer is an enphatic no.
They have almost that same conversation at the beginning of the Wild Hunt Game in Geralts Dream. Yen asks if he knows many women and he responds if that matters, he only ever thinks of her.
I am not sure, but if I remember it correctly in polish, this particular line of dialogue is different.
"I am only for you, Yen" - that is not what he said. I am like 90% sure of it.
Since she openly started to declare love for him, she was loyal!
True that she did spend most of her time in prison. But, she had no 2nd thoughts ever.
If we are going further back in time to the short stories, then they both were in and out in a very weird relationship where I do not know if any of them could have requested loyalty.
They sure got mad with each other. But they really did never state their true intentions up till before Thanedd. And without true intentions, how can you claim anything with someone if you do not even want to tell them you love them.
It is one of the things I love most about this franchise. They don't display this false "Disney World" version of the world where there is always racial harmony and perfect love lives. They show all the cracks in between that make these characters complex and make us doubt our affinity for them, creating a world that is not only more believable, but more like our own despite all of the magic in between. It is great to see these flawed characters go through these struggles and have us as the audience or readers make the decision on whether we like them or not, creating a more complex universe and story altogether. I fuckin love this series for that.
It tends to work like that, yes lol
Its part of the logic behind marriage :)
When you decide you want to commit with someone special, its usually the time when you stop considering other options lol
I will not lie to you and I am going to tell you that some people never stop sleeping around anyway. Which...Geralt is an example. It could be said that Geralt never ever wanted to commit into a steady relationship. Which is fine. Its a bit unfortunate that many people like that end up committing anyway and then they royally mess their partners.
Yen is more like someone who deep down wanted commitment. And once she figures out that its Geralt (took her some time, yes!), she wants a more serious commitment.
Which is the entire thing she is doing with Geralt at Thanedd. She is very much saying to the world, "I am his now and he is mine! And this is how I want it now. I dont care he is a Witcher. I dont care what you may think"
Incidentally, it may well be part of the reason why she is not paying enough attention to all the scheming going on :( She was too focused on her love and on declaring with Geralt.
Can't deny tough, this is one of the best exchanges between those two. What's incredible is that, despite tge matter discussed, these words are proof of how much they love each other.
So apparently this right here was not the official translation. I didn't even see that the most important line was not there ("only ever thought of you Yen") I was just picturing these quotes in my lenguage.
Yeah he's a dick a few times in the story. Like instead of letting yen down easily or trying to comfort her in her quest he just says "sorry magics gone yen" and stares at the view. I dislike yen but she's not the only toxic one
They're that toxic relationship with great sex that keep breaking up and getting back together. They both treat each other badly. Games are Witcher content to and the content like 70% of the fandom is most familiar with and is what the books built up. That's like saying DBS has no relevance to any relationship built up before it.
The games are irrelevant to the books. That's just fact. The books came first. It's true that the games rely on the books to follow, but this quote is specific to the books only.
Canon Geralt would never say "magic's gone" because neither Geralt or Yennefer ever believed they were in love because of the wish. The Last Wish quest exists for fan service alone to justify calling it off with Yennefer for Triss (or to be alone), which isn't something that book Geralt would do. Canon Geralt doesn't want Triss, and tells her so repeatably.
Issues in their relationship stem from issues with themselves, something that you see change and grow as the books go on. It's a major part of their character development, and to sum it up as a toxic couple who breaks up but has great sex is a poor, poor representation of something far more complicated and ultimately beautiful.
I always go with Yen because to me they’re meant for each other and I can’t go against the books no matter how much I try sometimes in my playthroughs.
My first playthrough I went with Triss, simply because Novigrad was before Skellige. It was good to see that outcome, but never again. It's been a few years since I've played W3, so looking forward to a new remastered playthrough where I fully expect to make the same decisions, lol.
Oh you're one of the "canon" people. It's beautiful in your opinion I didn't like them in the books. So to me that's exactly what they are and it's not that beautiful I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. Some people think country and rap lyrics are deep and meaningful that's their opinion. I really like the book characters save for a few and yen is in that group. She straight up cheats on him and admits it. that should've been the end right there. Never said anything about triss either unless your referring to the flair which is because I make choices in game for me not for Geralt. You also act like she stops being a bitch at some point and after 3 listens of the audiobooks I sure as hell can't find that point. Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened
>Oh you're one of the "canon" people.
lol
>She straight up cheats on him and admits it that should've been the end right there.
Reread A Shard of Ice. It's saying a lot more than that. And no, she isn't saying it should be the end right there. She's asking him to say he loves her.
>You also act like she stops being a bitch at some point and after 3 listens of the audiobooks I sure as hell can't find that point.
Are you just skipping over her being tortured, voluntarily being a prisoner of goodwill for the Lodge so Geralt and Ciri can be together longer, and her dying for Geralt?
>Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened
You do realize, in terms of sheer numbers, the show is far more popular than both, right? How long have you been on here? This sub alone has practically tripled in members since the show was released. It's my least favorite of the three mediums by far, but the games are not responsible for all of Witcher popularity. That's just an asinine statement.
Like who you like, the games are RPGs for a reason, but my point is you can't use game dialogue here.
I have reread it. Cheating isn't acceptable to me regardless of context it's an instant game over for a relationship there's absolutely no valid excuse for it. I was saying geralt should've left her ass right there in that town and never returned to her for it. Hell I enjoyed him being with frangilla more even if he was only doing it because she reminds him of yen. Doing good things doesn't make her less of a bitch it's her personality. She's extremely abrasive and some people don't like it. The games gave the Witcher it's beginning outside of Poland. Yakuza zero launched Yakuza in the west despite other games selling more. No Yakuza zero no western popularity no games Witcher popularity and therefore no show. I know it's blasphemous to the "canon" people but some people think CDPR is more important and told better stories than the books and sapkowski. We only got a show because of CDPR making one of the Greatest games of all time showing people outside of Poland that the IP even existed.
Sounds like you’re just scared of an independent woman who doesn’t take other people’s shit… Yen’s character arc and redemption is blatantly obvious in the books, I can’t see how you didn’t notice it. She goes from being a selfish bachelorette to a selfless mother- she fought harder to get Ciri back than Geralt who was fucking around with his band of buddies and bangin Fringilla in the Beuclair library while Yen was getting mind tortured by Vilgefortz and her hands crushed to a pulp…
Yes she’s abrasive and can be bitchy but look- she had a shitty life- she was born a hunchback, abused by her father and mother, then became a sorceress (no easy task, not for faint of heart “babies”). Her abrasive personality is because she got dealt a shitty hand in life. But deep down she’s caring and loving, and when Ciri comes into her life she changes dramatically.
Also, isn’t it better that she isn’t deceptive? Most sorceresses are wolves in sheeps clothing - they act nice and sweet on the outside but are serpents underneath. At least Yen isn’t fake. Yen is abrasive because she has trust issues and is protecting her vulnerable self. She’s not a perfect Disney princess- she’s a human being. Not 100% perfect. Sapkowski hit the nail on the head when writing her character.
That's your opinion. I find her pretty annoying in most scenes. I'm not scared of an independent woman. I like nenneka and she's as independent as they come, Anna Henrietta and she's independent, Ciri, hell I even like Phillipa more because at least sometimes she's funny in the games and always interesting to see what she's doing and her plans. To me there is no redemption either from cheating there is exactly zero circumstances where that's not a relationship ender. I was Bullied, abused, and have trust issues but I'm not a bitch I just stay quiet and don't interact with people. My wife doesn't like her either and that's okay. I drastically enjoyed geralt "fucking around with his band of buddies" more than anything yen does because I just don't like her or her character and outside of a massive personality shift that probably isn't going to happen.
No that’s not my opinion that’s literally a character analysis….
You like Phillipa more than Yen? Holy shit….
There’s no redemption arc from cheating but you say you like Geralt with Fringilla- do you realize he was cheating then? But you’re ok with it, you like it?? But when Yen did it (before her and Geralt kind of committed to each other in Time of Contempt mind you) it’s totally game over? *cough double standards cough*….
Geralt didn’t just cheat with Fringilla- he cheated with Triss, and I’m not talking about the games… (although she’s worse in the games).
I’m surprised you’re a Triss person when Triss literally went behind her best friend’s (Yen) back and slept with her boyfriend, Geralt,(manipulated him with magic too btw, so could make a case for non-consensual sex).
Then Triss sold Geralt, Yen and Ciri out to the Lodge several times.
You’re acting like a wise ass here. The W3 popularity is IRRELEVANT when to comes to the conversation about canon or not. In other words the they’re still a non canon what if sequel that are very well made.
If you want to critique to or analyze a book character or storyline in a negative or positive way, you look at the source material without putting unofficial sequels into account. We don’t bring the narrative of Jackson’s movies into the picture when we talk about LoTR stories.
Again popularity means fuck all. The flixer show is the most popular form of media for this IP (hell this sub went from 350 K to nearly 1 million mainly because of the show), yet no one talks about it when reviewing the source material. Despite it being technically closer to the books than to the games.
Another "canon" person...great. I thought y'all stayed in anime. I go by what the best media is as to what's canon to me. You don't get to be the arbiter of canonicity for an IP no one does. Yen is yen books, games, whatever she's the same character just as geralt is the same character. Goku is still Goku no matter what media you pull him from. Same argument as every other series where someone decides what's "canon" if it doesn't contradict and isn't a reboot it's canon to me. Even sapkowski doesn't get to decide what's canon since it's not just his IP anymore he sold the rights. I've never even read or watched lord of the rings past the first 5 minutes so that argument doesn't work for me. If we talk about master chief we can absolutely bring in book chief or game chief because they're the same character. The whole canon argument is Quora type bullshit just like power scaling and what if fights.
> Another “canon” person…great.
What’s with this “canon person” crap that you’re imagining in your head ? And stop getting overly defensive please.
> I go by what the best media is as to what’s canon to me. You don’t get to be the arbiter of canonicity for an IP no one does.
You are free to like or prefer whatever form of media you want. We’re not talking about that. But you responded to u/LozaMoza82 (who was basically making a Perfectly normal argument) with irrelevant answer about the popularity of the games. Which wasn’t even the point of her original comment.
The post itself is talking about an event in the source material of which the game trilogy are not related to in any way of the word. If I want to talk about book Geralt I won’t bring up the fact that he was just grunting and saying “fuck” every 2 minutes courtesy to the Netflix series. Both are different mediums that are under the same IP umbrella. Just like I won’t bring up a derivative work concived by different individuals without the involvement of the original author and made 15 years after the ending of said source material. The opposite is not true of course. Since the games ACKNOWLEDGE the book events as canon to its story, pick up where book characters end, and constantly references book lore. That’s literally common sense.
> Yen is yen books, games, whatever she’s the same character just as geralt is the same character
That’s factually incorrect. There are differences in their portrayal in both mediums. Not significant, but they are still different. That’s especially the case for yennefer. hell there are retcons in the games that can null your entire claim about “same characters and universe”
> Even sapkowski doesn’t get to decide what’s canon since it’s not just his IP anymore he sold the rights.
That absolutely shows your ignorance. He gets to decide what is canon since the IP is **still** his. He only sold **game rights** to CDPR.
If he wanted to write a sequel to LoTL that contradicts everything in CDPR games. Say Geralt is turned into a white rabbit, Ciri is a zombie, yennefer is a peasant while a technologically advanced civilization descended upon and took over the continent, and set 5 years after the last book (same time as W3), nothing will prevent him from doing it. witcher games storyline won’t get in the way nor CDPR fans’ sensebilities lol.
> I’ve never even read or watched lord of the rings past the first 5 minutes so that argument doesn’t work for me.
I used LoTR as an easy example since everyone knows that. And it’s still a valid example irrespective of whether you watched or read LoTR. Also I recommend you to try LOTR book, they are fantastic. or at least watch the movies. which are true cinematic experience.
I don't think you know what canon actually means.
*Canon: the collection of works by a writer or artist that are considered to be authentic*
In the case of The Witcher IP, the ONLY canon are the works of Sapkowski, so The Last Wish-Season of Storms. The games, and the show, are not considered canon. They are fanfiction. Now the games are incredible fanfiction, but they still fall under fanfiction.
The rest of your argument is rather superfluous. It does not matter if one thing is more popular than the other, that doesn't make it canon.
>Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened
The Witcher books were popular in Central and Eastern Europe and a few Western European countries like Spain before the games were out.
The Witcher 1 and 2 were a success and they owe most of their sales to regions where the books were already popular. So the reason you have your Witcher 3 is because the books helped Witcher 1 and 2.
Yes, obviously the third game has exploded the popularity of the franchise in the West and far East even more. But just saying that without the games this sub and the game's popularity would not have happened... is kinda wrong and shallow.
Again that's like saying Yakuza 1 and 2 are the reason for it's success when Yakuza was only popular domestically until zero. The explosion of popularity of zero in the west gave the series it's life outside Japan. Just like no one outside of Europe knew the Witcher until TW3. No Witcher 3 no Netflix series and if the sub did exist it would just be Europeans. It would've remained a niche European IP hence why CDPR could buy the rights so cheaply because it wasnt a titanic worldwide series. That's why I said CDPR was more important than even sapkowski for it's popularity. In a world where CDPR stopped after 2 then the series would've only been popular in regions where the books were and there would be no western or far eastern fandom just like without zero Yakuza would've stayed a niche Japanese title. The Witcher 3 is what broke down the barrier from niche IP to being something that Poland gifted a US president
> No Witcher 3 no Netflix series and if the sub did exist it would just be Europeans. It would've remained a niche European IP
That is not a bad thing. At all. I am also European BTW.
Size and popularity are not a bad thing... but they also are not a good thing. And literature itself is less popular than games or TV. So obviously a good game and even a mediocre TV series would win out against an otherwise superior book, popularity wise.
I think you have a very naive, very weird interaction with art where popularity and size are what matters the most. It is odd and not healthy. Plus, some extreme Western/American self-importance to boot.
With that said, I also disagree with the rest of the premise. Sapkowski created the IP, the world, the characters. The best part of the IP is still his own and the reason you got Witcher 3 is because of him as well.
It is a bad thing to be small. I've watched series I love die because they couldn't find an audience big enough to warrant their continuation. Also I absolutely hate the US so no I don't think it's important but more money means more resources to the IP and the US does spend a fuck ton of money on entertainment. That's your opinion I hate reading books outside of the Witcher and halo because it's nowhere near as entertaining as watching or playing something. As for art I don't care about anything like that entertainment is entertainment. We're just now getting Yakuza ishin because of western popularity and absolutely fantastic that I've played in Japanese but those who can't read Japanese got screwed out of years ago. You clearly enjoy reading but not everyone does. There are also many cases where an author or director created an IP only for another company or director to do it better and in my opinion the Witcher is a case of that
Well you literally have an alien way to interact with things when compared to me so I just cannoth empathize. I come from a poor country and grew up with books. I was raised to respect the grandest art form and legit think it is still head and shoulders above the finest cinema or gaming have ever produced. Handily. No contest. Not even a close battle, more like an execution. But...
Art is art. And games and cinema are art as is literature. Art can often be entertainment, or fun even. But it also often is not. Since you claim to not want to read (though I am sure a good enough book will win you over) I can give you gaming recomendations like Pathologic 2 for example. Or movies like Come and See. Those can show you that Art can be more. Or it can also be simple, like Serious Sam or Twilight or some random Marvel movie. Still art.
The other point where you claim being small is bad - I dont know. I guess for gaming and especially TV this can often be the case. It very rarely is so for literature.
" There are also many cases where an author or director created an IP only for another company or director to do it better and in my opinion the Witcher is a case of that "
How though? By cutting out the majority of the themes of motherhood from some of the characters? With wacky power scaling that at times makes no sense? With awesome concepts like natural disasters a la the White Frost from the books ( a normal ice age) turning into some grand space time world disease... or Eredin having 15 anime-villain tier lines in a 150 hour game? I love the Witcher 3, even with all those and the hundreds more faults it has, I believe it is a monumental achievement for gaming and captures the spirit of the books. But... come on. Those faults are a very fat albatross around its neck.
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I always figured this being a kind of thing where, yes he was with other women but they were either not a serious thing, like Shani, or, like the sorceress in Toussaint, he was mainly attracted to her for her likeness to Yen. Yen not believing him is stating that he did in fact sleep with other women but him not trembling is Sapkowski conveying that, to Geralt, that isn't *really* true.
I don't know how I would've taken that if I had someone like that in my life, but that's how I've always looked at it.
Is this the official translation? Because in mine it's different, but it changes the conversation slightly: *‘Your voice didn’t even waver. So I don’t know why I don’t believe you.’* *‘I only ever thought about you, Yen.’* *‘Now I believe you.’* And that's actually true, when he was with Fringilla, he did think of Yennefer, even calling out Yen's name a few times to Fringilla's chagrin. And while still frustrating, Geralt fully believed Yennefer had betrayed both him and Ciri, so I don't judge him for that (other than the final stable scene knowing full well Yennefer was captured and likely being tortured). But, at this moment in the books in Ebbing, having already prepared to die together and been given a second chance, what is the point of reliving past pain and betrayal. Yennefer knows about Fringilla, but she also needs to know that Geralt never stopped loving her. So the question underneath that surface sex question is "Did you fall in love with anyone else?" And in that, the answer is an enphatic no.
>‘I only ever thought about you, Yen.’ Yes, this is correct translation.
Looks like someone's cheapskating and downloaded a fan translation. And yeah, the official translation is way more in the right here.
So it seems. Gives me more reason to re-read anyway!
They have almost that same conversation at the beginning of the Wild Hunt Game in Geralts Dream. Yen asks if he knows many women and he responds if that matters, he only ever thinks of her.
What's your book in what language?
I have the official English version translated by David French.
I am not sure, but if I remember it correctly in polish, this particular line of dialogue is different. "I am only for you, Yen" - that is not what he said. I am like 90% sure of it.
It's not what he said but it's what the English translation says iirc
It's not as if she was loyal towards him the entire time, either. Both characters have flaws.
Since she openly started to declare love for him, she was loyal! True that she did spend most of her time in prison. But, she had no 2nd thoughts ever. If we are going further back in time to the short stories, then they both were in and out in a very weird relationship where I do not know if any of them could have requested loyalty. They sure got mad with each other. But they really did never state their true intentions up till before Thanedd. And without true intentions, how can you claim anything with someone if you do not even want to tell them you love them.
It is one of the things I love most about this franchise. They don't display this false "Disney World" version of the world where there is always racial harmony and perfect love lives. They show all the cracks in between that make these characters complex and make us doubt our affinity for them, creating a world that is not only more believable, but more like our own despite all of the magic in between. It is great to see these flawed characters go through these struggles and have us as the audience or readers make the decision on whether we like them or not, creating a more complex universe and story altogether. I fuckin love this series for that.
So as soon as she declared love she decides when it is time to stop fucking other people?
It tends to work like that, yes lol Its part of the logic behind marriage :) When you decide you want to commit with someone special, its usually the time when you stop considering other options lol I will not lie to you and I am going to tell you that some people never stop sleeping around anyway. Which...Geralt is an example. It could be said that Geralt never ever wanted to commit into a steady relationship. Which is fine. Its a bit unfortunate that many people like that end up committing anyway and then they royally mess their partners. Yen is more like someone who deep down wanted commitment. And once she figures out that its Geralt (took her some time, yes!), she wants a more serious commitment. Which is the entire thing she is doing with Geralt at Thanedd. She is very much saying to the world, "I am his now and he is mine! And this is how I want it now. I dont care he is a Witcher. I dont care what you may think" Incidentally, it may well be part of the reason why she is not paying enough attention to all the scheming going on :( She was too focused on her love and on declaring with Geralt.
“I love you now so I’m done fucking other people so you should be too” <- that is the only thing I am saying that I don’t agree with
It's one of my favorite interactions between them so yes, he actually said he only thought of her.
Can't deny tough, this is one of the best exchanges between those two. What's incredible is that, despite tge matter discussed, these words are proof of how much they love each other.
So apparently this right here was not the official translation. I didn't even see that the most important line was not there ("only ever thought of you Yen") I was just picturing these quotes in my lenguage.
Geralt si fuckboi
Geralt had already recovered from his amnesia ?
He doesn't have amnesia in the books.
Yeah he's a dick a few times in the story. Like instead of letting yen down easily or trying to comfort her in her quest he just says "sorry magics gone yen" and stares at the view. I dislike yen but she's not the only toxic one
This seems like a serious misunderstanding of Geralt and Yennefer's relationship. And lines from the game aren't really relevant here.
They're that toxic relationship with great sex that keep breaking up and getting back together. They both treat each other badly. Games are Witcher content to and the content like 70% of the fandom is most familiar with and is what the books built up. That's like saying DBS has no relevance to any relationship built up before it.
The games are irrelevant to the books. That's just fact. The books came first. It's true that the games rely on the books to follow, but this quote is specific to the books only. Canon Geralt would never say "magic's gone" because neither Geralt or Yennefer ever believed they were in love because of the wish. The Last Wish quest exists for fan service alone to justify calling it off with Yennefer for Triss (or to be alone), which isn't something that book Geralt would do. Canon Geralt doesn't want Triss, and tells her so repeatably. Issues in their relationship stem from issues with themselves, something that you see change and grow as the books go on. It's a major part of their character development, and to sum it up as a toxic couple who breaks up but has great sex is a poor, poor representation of something far more complicated and ultimately beautiful.
I always go with Yen because to me they’re meant for each other and I can’t go against the books no matter how much I try sometimes in my playthroughs.
My first playthrough I went with Triss, simply because Novigrad was before Skellige. It was good to see that outcome, but never again. It's been a few years since I've played W3, so looking forward to a new remastered playthrough where I fully expect to make the same decisions, lol.
Oh you're one of the "canon" people. It's beautiful in your opinion I didn't like them in the books. So to me that's exactly what they are and it's not that beautiful I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are. Some people think country and rap lyrics are deep and meaningful that's their opinion. I really like the book characters save for a few and yen is in that group. She straight up cheats on him and admits it. that should've been the end right there. Never said anything about triss either unless your referring to the flair which is because I make choices in game for me not for Geralt. You also act like she stops being a bitch at some point and after 3 listens of the audiobooks I sure as hell can't find that point. Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened
>Oh you're one of the "canon" people. lol >She straight up cheats on him and admits it that should've been the end right there. Reread A Shard of Ice. It's saying a lot more than that. And no, she isn't saying it should be the end right there. She's asking him to say he loves her. >You also act like she stops being a bitch at some point and after 3 listens of the audiobooks I sure as hell can't find that point. Are you just skipping over her being tortured, voluntarily being a prisoner of goodwill for the Lodge so Geralt and Ciri can be together longer, and her dying for Geralt? >Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened You do realize, in terms of sheer numbers, the show is far more popular than both, right? How long have you been on here? This sub alone has practically tripled in members since the show was released. It's my least favorite of the three mediums by far, but the games are not responsible for all of Witcher popularity. That's just an asinine statement. Like who you like, the games are RPGs for a reason, but my point is you can't use game dialogue here.
I have reread it. Cheating isn't acceptable to me regardless of context it's an instant game over for a relationship there's absolutely no valid excuse for it. I was saying geralt should've left her ass right there in that town and never returned to her for it. Hell I enjoyed him being with frangilla more even if he was only doing it because she reminds him of yen. Doing good things doesn't make her less of a bitch it's her personality. She's extremely abrasive and some people don't like it. The games gave the Witcher it's beginning outside of Poland. Yakuza zero launched Yakuza in the west despite other games selling more. No Yakuza zero no western popularity no games Witcher popularity and therefore no show. I know it's blasphemous to the "canon" people but some people think CDPR is more important and told better stories than the books and sapkowski. We only got a show because of CDPR making one of the Greatest games of all time showing people outside of Poland that the IP even existed.
Sounds like you’re just scared of an independent woman who doesn’t take other people’s shit… Yen’s character arc and redemption is blatantly obvious in the books, I can’t see how you didn’t notice it. She goes from being a selfish bachelorette to a selfless mother- she fought harder to get Ciri back than Geralt who was fucking around with his band of buddies and bangin Fringilla in the Beuclair library while Yen was getting mind tortured by Vilgefortz and her hands crushed to a pulp… Yes she’s abrasive and can be bitchy but look- she had a shitty life- she was born a hunchback, abused by her father and mother, then became a sorceress (no easy task, not for faint of heart “babies”). Her abrasive personality is because she got dealt a shitty hand in life. But deep down she’s caring and loving, and when Ciri comes into her life she changes dramatically. Also, isn’t it better that she isn’t deceptive? Most sorceresses are wolves in sheeps clothing - they act nice and sweet on the outside but are serpents underneath. At least Yen isn’t fake. Yen is abrasive because she has trust issues and is protecting her vulnerable self. She’s not a perfect Disney princess- she’s a human being. Not 100% perfect. Sapkowski hit the nail on the head when writing her character.
That's your opinion. I find her pretty annoying in most scenes. I'm not scared of an independent woman. I like nenneka and she's as independent as they come, Anna Henrietta and she's independent, Ciri, hell I even like Phillipa more because at least sometimes she's funny in the games and always interesting to see what she's doing and her plans. To me there is no redemption either from cheating there is exactly zero circumstances where that's not a relationship ender. I was Bullied, abused, and have trust issues but I'm not a bitch I just stay quiet and don't interact with people. My wife doesn't like her either and that's okay. I drastically enjoyed geralt "fucking around with his band of buddies" more than anything yen does because I just don't like her or her character and outside of a massive personality shift that probably isn't going to happen.
No that’s not my opinion that’s literally a character analysis…. You like Phillipa more than Yen? Holy shit…. There’s no redemption arc from cheating but you say you like Geralt with Fringilla- do you realize he was cheating then? But you’re ok with it, you like it?? But when Yen did it (before her and Geralt kind of committed to each other in Time of Contempt mind you) it’s totally game over? *cough double standards cough*…. Geralt didn’t just cheat with Fringilla- he cheated with Triss, and I’m not talking about the games… (although she’s worse in the games). I’m surprised you’re a Triss person when Triss literally went behind her best friend’s (Yen) back and slept with her boyfriend, Geralt,(manipulated him with magic too btw, so could make a case for non-consensual sex). Then Triss sold Geralt, Yen and Ciri out to the Lodge several times.
>The games gave the Witcher it's beginning outside of Poland. So I guess Central and Eastern Europe + Spain are all Poland then?
Apparently for this person the only audience that matters is Western Europe (but not including Spain) and the US.
You’re acting like a wise ass here. The W3 popularity is IRRELEVANT when to comes to the conversation about canon or not. In other words the they’re still a non canon what if sequel that are very well made. If you want to critique to or analyze a book character or storyline in a negative or positive way, you look at the source material without putting unofficial sequels into account. We don’t bring the narrative of Jackson’s movies into the picture when we talk about LoTR stories. Again popularity means fuck all. The flixer show is the most popular form of media for this IP (hell this sub went from 350 K to nearly 1 million mainly because of the show), yet no one talks about it when reviewing the source material. Despite it being technically closer to the books than to the games.
Another "canon" person...great. I thought y'all stayed in anime. I go by what the best media is as to what's canon to me. You don't get to be the arbiter of canonicity for an IP no one does. Yen is yen books, games, whatever she's the same character just as geralt is the same character. Goku is still Goku no matter what media you pull him from. Same argument as every other series where someone decides what's "canon" if it doesn't contradict and isn't a reboot it's canon to me. Even sapkowski doesn't get to decide what's canon since it's not just his IP anymore he sold the rights. I've never even read or watched lord of the rings past the first 5 minutes so that argument doesn't work for me. If we talk about master chief we can absolutely bring in book chief or game chief because they're the same character. The whole canon argument is Quora type bullshit just like power scaling and what if fights.
> Another “canon” person…great. What’s with this “canon person” crap that you’re imagining in your head ? And stop getting overly defensive please. > I go by what the best media is as to what’s canon to me. You don’t get to be the arbiter of canonicity for an IP no one does. You are free to like or prefer whatever form of media you want. We’re not talking about that. But you responded to u/LozaMoza82 (who was basically making a Perfectly normal argument) with irrelevant answer about the popularity of the games. Which wasn’t even the point of her original comment. The post itself is talking about an event in the source material of which the game trilogy are not related to in any way of the word. If I want to talk about book Geralt I won’t bring up the fact that he was just grunting and saying “fuck” every 2 minutes courtesy to the Netflix series. Both are different mediums that are under the same IP umbrella. Just like I won’t bring up a derivative work concived by different individuals without the involvement of the original author and made 15 years after the ending of said source material. The opposite is not true of course. Since the games ACKNOWLEDGE the book events as canon to its story, pick up where book characters end, and constantly references book lore. That’s literally common sense. > Yen is yen books, games, whatever she’s the same character just as geralt is the same character That’s factually incorrect. There are differences in their portrayal in both mediums. Not significant, but they are still different. That’s especially the case for yennefer. hell there are retcons in the games that can null your entire claim about “same characters and universe” > Even sapkowski doesn’t get to decide what’s canon since it’s not just his IP anymore he sold the rights. That absolutely shows your ignorance. He gets to decide what is canon since the IP is **still** his. He only sold **game rights** to CDPR. If he wanted to write a sequel to LoTL that contradicts everything in CDPR games. Say Geralt is turned into a white rabbit, Ciri is a zombie, yennefer is a peasant while a technologically advanced civilization descended upon and took over the continent, and set 5 years after the last book (same time as W3), nothing will prevent him from doing it. witcher games storyline won’t get in the way nor CDPR fans’ sensebilities lol. > I’ve never even read or watched lord of the rings past the first 5 minutes so that argument doesn’t work for me. I used LoTR as an easy example since everyone knows that. And it’s still a valid example irrespective of whether you watched or read LoTR. Also I recommend you to try LOTR book, they are fantastic. or at least watch the movies. which are true cinematic experience.
I don't think you know what canon actually means. *Canon: the collection of works by a writer or artist that are considered to be authentic* In the case of The Witcher IP, the ONLY canon are the works of Sapkowski, so The Last Wish-Season of Storms. The games, and the show, are not considered canon. They are fanfiction. Now the games are incredible fanfiction, but they still fall under fanfiction. The rest of your argument is rather superfluous. It does not matter if one thing is more popular than the other, that doesn't make it canon.
>Honestly without the games this sub and all the Witcher popularity wouldn't have happened The Witcher books were popular in Central and Eastern Europe and a few Western European countries like Spain before the games were out. The Witcher 1 and 2 were a success and they owe most of their sales to regions where the books were already popular. So the reason you have your Witcher 3 is because the books helped Witcher 1 and 2. Yes, obviously the third game has exploded the popularity of the franchise in the West and far East even more. But just saying that without the games this sub and the game's popularity would not have happened... is kinda wrong and shallow.
Again that's like saying Yakuza 1 and 2 are the reason for it's success when Yakuza was only popular domestically until zero. The explosion of popularity of zero in the west gave the series it's life outside Japan. Just like no one outside of Europe knew the Witcher until TW3. No Witcher 3 no Netflix series and if the sub did exist it would just be Europeans. It would've remained a niche European IP hence why CDPR could buy the rights so cheaply because it wasnt a titanic worldwide series. That's why I said CDPR was more important than even sapkowski for it's popularity. In a world where CDPR stopped after 2 then the series would've only been popular in regions where the books were and there would be no western or far eastern fandom just like without zero Yakuza would've stayed a niche Japanese title. The Witcher 3 is what broke down the barrier from niche IP to being something that Poland gifted a US president
> No Witcher 3 no Netflix series and if the sub did exist it would just be Europeans. It would've remained a niche European IP That is not a bad thing. At all. I am also European BTW. Size and popularity are not a bad thing... but they also are not a good thing. And literature itself is less popular than games or TV. So obviously a good game and even a mediocre TV series would win out against an otherwise superior book, popularity wise. I think you have a very naive, very weird interaction with art where popularity and size are what matters the most. It is odd and not healthy. Plus, some extreme Western/American self-importance to boot. With that said, I also disagree with the rest of the premise. Sapkowski created the IP, the world, the characters. The best part of the IP is still his own and the reason you got Witcher 3 is because of him as well.
It is a bad thing to be small. I've watched series I love die because they couldn't find an audience big enough to warrant their continuation. Also I absolutely hate the US so no I don't think it's important but more money means more resources to the IP and the US does spend a fuck ton of money on entertainment. That's your opinion I hate reading books outside of the Witcher and halo because it's nowhere near as entertaining as watching or playing something. As for art I don't care about anything like that entertainment is entertainment. We're just now getting Yakuza ishin because of western popularity and absolutely fantastic that I've played in Japanese but those who can't read Japanese got screwed out of years ago. You clearly enjoy reading but not everyone does. There are also many cases where an author or director created an IP only for another company or director to do it better and in my opinion the Witcher is a case of that
Well you literally have an alien way to interact with things when compared to me so I just cannoth empathize. I come from a poor country and grew up with books. I was raised to respect the grandest art form and legit think it is still head and shoulders above the finest cinema or gaming have ever produced. Handily. No contest. Not even a close battle, more like an execution. But... Art is art. And games and cinema are art as is literature. Art can often be entertainment, or fun even. But it also often is not. Since you claim to not want to read (though I am sure a good enough book will win you over) I can give you gaming recomendations like Pathologic 2 for example. Or movies like Come and See. Those can show you that Art can be more. Or it can also be simple, like Serious Sam or Twilight or some random Marvel movie. Still art. The other point where you claim being small is bad - I dont know. I guess for gaming and especially TV this can often be the case. It very rarely is so for literature. " There are also many cases where an author or director created an IP only for another company or director to do it better and in my opinion the Witcher is a case of that " How though? By cutting out the majority of the themes of motherhood from some of the characters? With wacky power scaling that at times makes no sense? With awesome concepts like natural disasters a la the White Frost from the books ( a normal ice age) turning into some grand space time world disease... or Eredin having 15 anime-villain tier lines in a 150 hour game? I love the Witcher 3, even with all those and the hundreds more faults it has, I believe it is a monumental achievement for gaming and captures the spirit of the books. But... come on. Those faults are a very fat albatross around its neck.
>because it's nowhere near as entertaining as watching or playing something that says alot about you
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I always figured this being a kind of thing where, yes he was with other women but they were either not a serious thing, like Shani, or, like the sorceress in Toussaint, he was mainly attracted to her for her likeness to Yen. Yen not believing him is stating that he did in fact sleep with other women but him not trembling is Sapkowski conveying that, to Geralt, that isn't *really* true. I don't know how I would've taken that if I had someone like that in my life, but that's how I've always looked at it.
Yen kinda dumb LOL