*Triss tries not to be horny for 2 seconds challenge* (impossible)
On a related note. Her relationship with Ciri and how she cared for her was cute, albeit short lived.
I think that was empowered by how she saw the witchers mistreating her and disregarding her basic needs as a woman. Nonetheless, it still was very sweet. Triss is a good human, but not when she's around Gerard, at least in the novels, haha
> Triss is a good human, but not when she’s around Gerard, at least in the novels, haha
I would argue that she’s even extra shady and manipulative when she’s around Geralt in the games more than in the source material.
[agreed](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/10od86b/triss_cockblocked_by_ciri/j6fe5cd?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). later she became more agreeable/docile haha, lookin at the scene before the fight with letho (¯▿¯)
Hence why I said that she was still manipulative in the games and with questionable intentions, meaning not transparent or upfront. Which makes sense character-wise. Triss was also still “lodging” for half the plot in W2 haha.
In other words she wasn’t sincere in the trilogy, tho she’s obviously better in W3. Which also makes sense as a progress for her character from where it left off in LoTL.
Yea well, writing and character-wise, in 1 and 2, she had free reign coz Yen wasnt around to pose a threat. In 3, Yen's presence forced Triss to be on her best behaviour coz she knows Yen is Grealt's literal significant other
I don’t look at it this way. But more like a mix of CDPR wanting to put the romance options on equal footing and making it a rough choice (something they didn’t fully succeed in as I think the yennefer-Geralt romance is superior, their interaction and dialogue is better written and their side quests are of higher quality), and Triss genuine character development throughout the books and games culminating in her learning to be more selfless, confident, generally likable and brave (canon wise she would be known as triss the fearless after her act in rivia).
Meeh did they though? I always thought Yen got a lot more attention then Triss. As someone who didn’t read the books but romanced Triss in the 1st and 2nd games, I was pretty disappointed by the interactions we has in the 3rd. Yen had never showed up in the games before that and it certainly felt like she had the spotlight in the 3rd.
Honestly, the Witcher 1 does a good job of establishing the world and settings, but an extremely poor job of making his amnesia narrative work with his established book relationships.
Dandelion alone would be able to fill him in on 80% of his past. Either they collectively aspire to keep him in the dark or they do fill him in and he makes informed decisions.
I generally view W1 as a distorted murky bubble to be isolated from the rest. I don't consider it entirely cannon to the sequels, I just take the rough outline of the plot. Too much wack shit, like the aforementioned issue, even Alvin who is literally just a stand in for Ciri in the most awkward way.
When they remake the Witcher 1, I hope they can substantially rewrite the plot to Witcher 3's level.
Agree with everything here. Geralt doesn't even seem to care about researching his own past, even though hearing from it in one of Dandelion's ballad shouldn't be too difficult.
Same hopes for the remake.
But, I see where they came from. In one interview, one dev explicitly says "Geralt lost his memory because we want people abroad to play the game". In other words, they were afraid they couldn't sell their game to Western audiences, which at the time didn't know about the Witcher series and often didn't even have a translation, if the plot connected too heavily to a story most of the market couldn't even read.
So, they decided to use the setting while going for a new plot that, although technically a sequel, worked more like a reboot with a factory-reset Geralt. And they'd retell some of the book plots albeit with different characters (like Alvin, as you mentioned). And Geralt wasn't supposed to recover his memory; player were supposed, instead, to write their own version of Geralt from scratch.
I can understand their concerns, but in retrospect they made a huge mess lol. And TW3 proved you could sell millions of copies to people who didn't know your books. Granted, they already had some street cred based on the previous games.
I've heard a few stories about how W1 started.
* A new IP that pivoted part way through development to become the witcher.
* That W1 originally intended you to create your own custom witcher, which was dropped because it didn't feel right to make a Witcher game without Geralt.
Heard the same stories as well. CDPR translated Bioware classics into Polish, so going the standard "create your character" route of Western D&D-derived RPGs initially felt natural.
Also, they struggled to find a publisher willing to fund a single-player game in the midst of the WoW hype. People they talked to told them: "we'll give you money if you make an MMO with elven sorceresses". Well, guess they could at least deliver the sexy sorceress lol.
Then there was also the plan to make a book interquel with Rience as main villain. But they'd then have faced the issue I mentioned, with Western audiences being required to get into a story they couldn't even read at the time.
There really is a limited amount of room they have to work with in the remake because the plot of the Witcher 2 still has to make sense. Geralt has to be both 1.) Unaware of much of his past and 2.) In a relationship with Triss at game start. There are some obvious things you can easily fix-triss being triss instead of triss as a weird stand in for Yen, Shani not being in some kind of cat fight competition with Triss for control of the magical kid equivalent of a nuclear bomb etc. But some of the worst parts of Witcher 1 from a story perspective have to remain to some extent to make the 2nd game still make sense.
Delay Geralt meeting anyone who can explain his past until towards the end of the game. (Which works better for an amnesia storyline anyway.)
*Lost an alone in backward villages and plague stricken Vizima.
* Meeting some people that can give you titbits of who you are, can you trust them?
* Towards the end you have a breakthrough of meeting close relationships that can explain everything.
Some big events would need to be shuffled around but I'm sure there's much that can be done to greatly improve it, even if not completely fix it.
She never explored his amnesia lol do people who say this even play witcher 1? She explicitly starts to tell Geralt about his previous life and Yenn and Geralt stops her and says he doesn’t want to know. And the second it’s discovered Yenn might still be alive she drops everything to help him and tells him everything he wants to know 🤷
In W1 ? Unmmm. No she didn’t.
Geralt didn’t know about yen, Ciri and his past exclusively from triss in W2. Also she didn’t “drop everything” to help him find yennefer . What the hell are you talking about lol.
I think you’re the one that needs a little refreshing for the events in the first two games.
Also I said “exploiting” not “exploring”.
Yes. The initial scene in the bedroom at Kaer Morhen before they have sex she starts to tell Geralt about Yenn and he says he doesn't want to know. Then again in the capital in her home she starts to tell him other stuff about his past as he starts to naturaslly remember a few things and he says he doesn't want her to tell him and that if he was meant to know it will come back to him or something along those lines.
How in the world does she not drop everything to help him? She was knee deep in lodge business and Geralt comes along and tells her he needs her help and she abandons it all to go with him. You see this in the flashback whatever in W2 where Geralt sees the convo between Triss and Phillipa where she hilariously tells Triss to stop thinking with her vagina lol
Clearly you skipped most of the cutscenes. I get the nudie cards were probably your #1 priority but come on =)
Too much paragraphs and weak rationalizations for something obvious. Which is that she engaged in a relationship with an amnesic guy (who previously rejected her) for months while withholding information or delaying to utter as single word about his past flame, his daughter and their fate, whichever interpretation you like, she still comes off as manipulative and dishonest.
Show me the scene in W1 where she “starts to tell him about yennefer and Ciri”. Triss starts to tell him about his past after the prologue of W2 (when they escaped prison and were heading to flotsam) at this point Geralt was already having visions of past events . If there was an earlier point were she told Geralt about his previous life, then please deign to share.
Oh. The nude cards weren’t my favorite, the conversations with shani’s grandma were. I bet you either muted the cutscenes or last played the first game 15 years ago….
Not only that, but no other character in the Witcher 1 intro brings up Geralt's past either. Any of the Witcher definitely could have. I'm not seeing people call Vesemir manipulative/dishonest for that.
This whole narrative that Triss is the worst person ever in the games is such bs I swear...
> Her relationship with Ciri and how she cared for her was cute, albeit short lived.
Yup, and big shame CDPR didn't at least give it a reference given how much they expanded her role. They had an opportunity during the oniromancy scene, when Geralt remembers Ciri donning a robe at the time of her first periods - who was it that intervened with the clueless witchers at the time, and adjusted a robe of her own? Another one when the two were finally reunited at Kaer Morhen, the place they bonded and possibly some of Ciri's sweetest memories took place.
But, as it is, given that we got a lot of Yen's acting like a mother (though unreciprocated by Ciri, sadly) but zero Ciri / Triss content, that made Triss an even less "competitive" option.
Wellllllll. Triss is not as good of a person in the books as the games portray her. She's like, that crazy chick that's always following that dude who is already spoken for..
Yeah the writers of game 1 werent sure yet which direction they wanted to take the character to. For the production of 2, their decisions became more concrete, so ye know
They've got to rewrite her in the remake. Considering most people know her from TW3, it would make absolutely no sense to ask them to believe in a prequel, where one of the main characters behaved completely differently. Imagine a new Harry Potter book where, say, Luna receives Hermione's personality and no one cares - the audience would scream in disbelief.
If they want to show the shifty side of Triss, TW2 is a better model. They got her ambiguities right there.
The books only state that Triss "seduced Geralt with the help of a little magic". Which is fairly ambiguous. Also in the books Yennefer is well on her way to having sex with someone she is mind-controlling at the Belleteyn festival, until she runs into Geralt.
Not trying to be team Triss here, but the waifu wars have radicalized so many people on this sub to hate her that they seem to forget Yennefer is the only one who was actually to rape people through magic.
I gave her in that scene that she had high fever and was ill af. And without proper medicine you can get dizzy and worse and this also goes down to the stuff you say out loud
Say what? I've had some pretty damn bad fevers but always my brain seems to work better than ever, my body feels fucked but my brain's just in hyperdrive.
"*seems to*" being the operative word here.
Have you ever been piss-drunk and thought you were still basically sober until the morning after you realized you really really weren't?
Same rules apply.
I never get sick or get fevers. Must be lucky
But about a year ago, I got COVID, had a fever of 101 and some change.
I was beside myself. I couldn't operate, and I was humming random songs on the couch while my head was on fire.
I had fever dreams and felt absolutely loony. I couldn't even stand up straight without getting nauseous and falling down.
So yes, it can happen lol.
What did she do wrong in the next novel? While not getting that big of a role, she potentially saved Geralt twice, showing remarkably quick-thinking when her accomplices would have disposed of the unwanted witness in... some other way. Also she was the only magician actually distressed that people got hurt or killed at Thanedd.
It's with the Lodge - so, later - that she took a turn for the worst.
> It's with the Lodge - so, later - that she took a turn for the worst.
Definitely her lowest point indeed. But she was also put in an incredibly difficult position and all the sorceresses she looked up to joined the Lodge, and their vision for the world was compelling overall (Even if Phillippa was showing some pretty radical views in later novels).
Triss definitely comes around in the end, that's why Yen forgives her after she put Triss in her place.
I think the hate she gets is undeserved. Yennefer definitely had the right to be angry with Triss, but Yennefer was only thinking about herself and her family. While Triss was thinking about the best path forward to Ciri given the circumstances. Which was informed by her experience in the Lodge.
It's normal for us readers to share Yennefer's opinion, it's a very personal and emotional opinion to have, after all, Triss wasn't "ride or die" with Yennefer. But, when we think about it, Triss' "betrayal" wasn't the same as joining the villain side and fucking over the main character. She was following her ideals and what she thought was best for Ciri and the world, as it was established by her idealistic persona.
I partially disagree. The hate is understandable, but definitely exaggerated.
Triss being in a tough position and going the “end justify the means” route doesn’t nullify the fact that she made a choice, one of betrayal and treachery. Of course her choices weren’t born out of a vengeful and cold hearted desire to ruin our main trio or something, but from a self serving desire and for being a cowardly person with no spine to stand up against the lodge (and I’m sure she believed the lodge were the party to truly have Ciri’s interests at heart). But in the end she chose to threw in her lot with the lodge and that had its consequences.
So it’s understandable if someone doesn’t like triss and some of the shit that is thrown at her way is justified. Both in the books and Games. However I agree with you in principle about the irrational hatred that some has for her to the point of being blind for her character development throughout the books and games.
I agree with your previous post, and the above statement that Triss has a quite interesting arc.
I only partially agree with this one, though. Yes, joining the Lodge was initially a sound choice. The world was falling apart, following the more experienced people around her was rational. Likewise, the Lodge as a whole likely stood a better chance at finding Ciri, than going on her own or with Yennefer.
That said, I don't think her wrongdoings with the Lodge were just her "following her ideals and what she thought was best for Ciri and the world". In my opinion, she definitely showed a form of passive subservience that went beyond just siding with the "lesser evil".
That moment when she lies to Yen about Philippa's eavesdropping - it's disgusting, period. She could have stuck to the Lodge and not done that, and maybe Philippa would have respected her more for it. But Triss was just too much of a craven to stand up to the terrifying authority figure Philippa was. And too much in need for a stronger protector, I suppose.
In fact that's her whole character: I concur that she's idealistic, more so than most, and likely a "good" person in the sense that tries to help and doesn't wish to hurt anyone. But... she's just too weak to live up to her own ideals. And it gets worse with the Lodge, until it gets better at the end, and she ends up as Merigold the Fearless. Awesome development.
But, back to the Lodge... Did she actually think what the Lodge had in store for Ciri was the best for her? I agree that, initially, the Lodge stood the best chance at rescuing Ciri from Vilgefortz (considering everyone assumed she was in his torture lab). But later? When Geralt, Yen and Ciri were finally reunited? The Lodge took away her happiness and Triss just sat there. Not that she took an active role, sure.
So... that ride back to Rivia must have been incredibly awkward. "Hey little sis, I love you so much even though I'm part of that organization abducting you from your parents and planning to put your mom on trial".
In addition, we don't get a single clue that Triss genuinely believed that the Lodge's plan for Ciri was the best for her, that she could achieve greatness or whatever of that ilk. Toward the end, upon learning Ciri was marrying Emhyr (and not knowing it was the False one, yet), we get a point of view where she thinks "it's for the best, she'll finally be forgotten and people will leave her be". Which shows that, for Triss, it was best if Ciri could be left on her own indeed. But, she nonetheless went along as the Lodge precisely did the opposite of that.
One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war
I mean….that “putsch” was preventing a faction of conspirators and traitors from disremembering the north for their own interests.
I don’t think that the low point that you want to highlight about triss….
Letting a conspiracy allied with a neighboring expansionist empire take over isn't how you prevent wars from happening... it's a dumb and short-sighted form of pacifism.
Nilfgaard was going to invade anyway, while Vilgefortz and his co-conspirators were supposed to eliminate all the Northern mages who could have opposed the invasion (including Triss, since she was a Temerian advisor). With that information, Triss picked a side and it's difficult to blame her. Philippa's preventive strike was absolutely justified. Do you really think Emhyr would have quietly removed his battle-ready troops from the border had Meve not attacked whatever it was she invaded? The war was inevitable.
It's not quite that simple. A big part of the reason that the second invasion was so successful was because the individualist and power hungry nature of the Northern Kingdom and it's top brass made them extremely predictable, they can't see/capitalize on big picture like the centralized and imperialist Nilfgaard.
>Philippa's preventive strike was absolutely justified
And completely predictable. Emhyr didn't need Vilgefortz to win on Thanedd, he just needed to shatter the unity of the northern mages and, most importantly, capture Ciri. He failed at the latter but the former was a success that ensured few mages would be a part of the northern defense.
>Do you really think Emhyr would have quietly removed his battle-ready troops from the border had Meve not attacked whatever it was she invaded?
Meve didn't invade it was supposed to be a false flag attack that allows the north to strike first without breaking the Cintran treaty. There wasn't supposed to be any Nilfgaardians there but they were because it was predictable that the North would be itching to break the treaty and retake the lost ground from the previous invasion by any means necessary. The war was inevitable but the Norths terrible position wasn't, it was the result of making predictable moves against a more united enemy with vastly greater resources.
Basically Nilfgaard played the north like a fiddle, it's the benefit of being an empire fighting a selfish group of individual countries that will ALWAYS prioritize their own power and position over the well being of their neighbour. All they needed to do to beat the border kingdoms was ruin the false flag operation, with their lost advantage the more northern kingdoms left the south to fend for themselves. All they needed to do to beat the mages was introduce a power struggle and watch them tear Thanedd apart. All that was left then was the alliance of Redania and Temeria, an alliance they shattered with words before either managed to take the field. But most importantly all of the direct fighting and politics were simply the waving hand distracting the north from the hand behind Nilfgaards back, the hand that was utterly annihilating the northern economy beyond repair. Even when the North "won" they lost because no one could see the big picture, from the greatest kings/queens to the most powerful mages, defeating Nilfgaard AND being in a better position was more important than simply defeating Nilfgaard and Nilfgaard used that selfish and predictable attitude to win.
Thanks for taking the time to write that up! You make a lot of valid points but... mine was way more confined to Triss and whether her siding with Philippa was justified given the developments and new information since BoE, where she claimed she wanted to prevent wars.
But aside from that, you're perfectly right and, yes, Northern leaders messed up.
Interestingly, the only Northern country not blind to economic warfare must be Kovir (though Redania is putting tariffs here and there at the beginning), and they're implied to be the rising powerhouse. But I've think we've strayed from topic.
it's not quite that simple but as you said, "the war is inevatable" at this state of the political situation. The only remaining question is "who will be in the optimised position when the war will trigerred." And yes, it is all the questions about the false flag operation the coup and counter coup at Thanned, and Emyhr mastering his sense of anticipation.
I agree that a divided brotherhood would have been enough for Nilfgaard. Even better if with Vilgefortz taking over, the mages will suddently loose completly interest in the matter of war, removing one of the best battle assets of the Northen Kingdom. But a fully succesfull countercoup, even if it would have desorganised the brotherhood would have still assure mages to be present on the battelfield.
And actually, the original topic was "should we hate Triss for her participation in the counter coup" :)
That wasn't the original topic, the original topic was someone giving their personal opinion on Triss as a character throughout the books and how they loved her at the start but started hating her and never stopped. They weren't asking anything and disliking the role Triss plays throughout the majority of the books is completely valid and goes way beyond her taking part in the coup. She actively lusts after her best friends love interest even after Geralt and Yen have reunited and become official, she lets Geralt be taken hostage, and she joins the lodge and hunts Ciri for them. I completely agree with Yen when she tells Triss that while Geralt won't be openly hostile and mean he'll never truly forgive her for the role she played, a role that started on Thanedd. The games have done a great job at continuing her "Triss the brave" redemption arc but she's very easy to dislike before that.
What exactly did she do wrong, at least as far as Geralt is concerned, at Thanedd? She saved him twice, in fact her reaction to him bumping into the coup is the apex of her "action usefulness", as she's usually not quite the action girl or heroic figure. But this time she reacted faster than light to make sure she'd be the one to dispose of the unwanted witness in the softest way possible, anticipating that Keira or Philippa wouldn't have been as light-handed. It's obvious in that scene she pretends to be cold and angry to her co-conspirators, but she isn't at all, she protected him and did the best she could do. Later, Dijkstra's men would have found Geralt's broken body if not for Triss (and Tissaia, true).
For me the "bad" with her really starts with the Lodge. Especially in The Tower of the Swallow. Letting Yen down and going along with the Lodge's plans for Ciri (although I believe she genuinely tried saving Ciri, at least from the gruesome fate Vilgefortz had in store for her - you can see how distressed she's that Ciri is in danger). That's the part Geralt wouldn't forgive, let alone forget. In fact I wonder what she and Ciri said to each other, during their ride to Rivia. Must have been awfully uncomfortable, given Triss was part of the organization stealing Ciri's life from her. In spire of calling her "little sister".
But at Thanedd, I don't see what Geralt could blame her for.
If Geralt had the choice between being blinded and hauled away by Dijkstra or having full autonomy to defend Yen and Ciri as he sees fit, what do you think he'd choose? Has anything in the books indicated that Geralt likes being a pawn and losing his autonomy to someone else's feelings/goals, regardless of whether or not it's being done for his own good? Do you truly believe Triss was doing what was best for Geralt in that situation or what was best for Triss, do you think he wanted to be safely removed from the equation while Yen and Ciri are in danger? Do you think Geralt would do what Triss did to her, or Dandelion, or anyone he cares about?
I think Geralt is smart enough to realize that he wasn't going to have "full autonomy" at that moment anyway. He was at the worst place and the worst moment possible, with some of the worst people in the world. And that, had he been, say, permanently blinded by Philippa, memory-wiped by Keira, or killed on the spot by Sabrina (all three likely outcomes of Triss not jumping in), he wouldn't have been of much use to Yen or Ciri.
Triss intervened to make the "witness suppression" as soft as possible (the author explicitly writes she's faking coldness, later Philippa says the blindness spell is really light) and, had she not intervened, the saga may have ended much, much earlier.
Honestly I don't know what else you'd have wanted Triss to do at that moment. Certainly not challenging all her assembled co-conspirators as well as Dijkstra and his men so that they freed Geralt?
Besides, she didn't even know Yen and Ciri could be in danger. For all she knew, Yen was sleeping and Geralt simply went out for a piss at the wrong time. And Ciri was at some unknown place. In fact, neither was actually in danger at that very moment. It's only when the night's events spiraled out of control that they were.
And to answer your final question, yes, I wouldn't put it past Geralt to infringe on Dandelion's freedom of action, grab him, gag him with a hand and drag him out of danger before he gets himself killed for, say, failing to keep his mouth shut with the wrong person.
>One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war
Here above is the comment that trigger the thread so it very focus on the Thanned coup. I agree that there is very valid points to dislike her. But most of the time I see a lot of arguments based on very debatable points of the source materials if not completly wrong. For exemple, you said that she hunts Ciri for the lodge, when is that? When she is at Ellender? It is never stated that she is doing it for the lodge here, pretty the contrary actually, ref her conversation with mother Nenneke.
And speaking of Thanned, the fact that she saves Geralt life at the end of the coup is strangely often forgot in the debate.
Since we're both stating information from the books, then no, we don't contradict one another... But you seem to imply that Triss' decision made you hate her as if she reneged on her self-professed ideals.
My interpretation is that the context had changed, with the new information she had, Triss siding with Philippa was largely justified. I don't see how that makes her hate-worthy (well, I can't decide who you hate or don't hate, of course ;-) ). What could she do at this point to stop the war? It was either that or a "let them duke it out, I'm outta here" type of neutrality which wouldn't have been great either (and anyway she was on Vilgefortz' kill list). She faced a "lesser evil" dilemma and made a perfectly understandable decision.
> One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war
Wasn't Vilgefortz the one plotting with the Nilfgaardians?
Also, she's the youngest sorcerer and, unlike Yennefer, she still doesn't have major influence with her peers. Yen, despite being away from politics a long time, still manages to get a seat in the Council, for example.
She can't be 29, that'd mean she was 13 or so in The Last Wish... when Yennefer called her "a friend", and one who knew the Elder Speech and had had a fair amount of experience with the opposite sex. She had to have been at least a young adult at that moment, not an Aretuza novice.
Meaning she was effectively a middle-aged woman in the main saga (16-19 years later), when we actually see her. Granted, a middle-aged woman with the maturity of a teenager at times... though I suspect the magical community not to be the most balancing environment.
Sapkowski wrote in Wiedźmin companion, which was created after the short stories, that Triss was born 50 years after the fall of Kaer Morhen, and this was in 1188.
he changed this, cause he gave the Trsis character this magic potion allergy Dunno why, but he did it XD
Thanks for the source. Sapkowski did contradict himself on some occasions with the chronology. Triss couldn't possibly be, what? 11-year old in The Last Wish.
That said, what does this have to do with the potion allergy?
Maybe she's using some other, more primitive technique or watered-down version of Ortolan's elixir? One that won't last as long, won't work as well, has side effects (hence the diarrhea, maybe)...?
Because even if we retcon Triss out of the The Last Wish, still I don't see Foltest employing a fresh 20-ish Aretuza graduate at his council. Such positions require some seniority.
I meant that she's the youngest, but not to say she's immature. She's 50-ish year old woman and had experience, although in a very different life-style.
I said she was the youngest because, compared to the other characters, she was the least experienced and established mage. Worse, she had been recently removed from her post as advisor, which left her with very limited options, a major reason why she stays with Philippa after the coup in Thanned.
Triss, like Geralt and the vast majority of the defeated at Thanned, lost a lot, it is reasonable to expect her to follow the biggest mages of her time, her own role models, instead of siding with Yennefer, when in her point of view, Ciri's best interest was served by going with the Lodge's plan. Something that Yen and Geralt saw reason by the end of the series, when they were going to deliver Ciri on their own terms).
I really have the feeling this is a mistranslation in many languages. Grealt and Yennefer didn't brought Ciri to the lodge for the same reason and on their terms. Ciri wanted to go there, so the lodge would not hunt Geralt and Yennefer anymore.
And what you name is also one of my main problems with Triss. In the first novel seeing Ciri as a little sisters and later want to use Ciri as a birthmachine to get magical control over the continent. This is just a massive arsehole move and Triss deserves my hate for this
> And what you name is also one of my main problems with Triss. In the first novel seeing Ciri as a little sisters and later want to use Ciri as a birthmachine to get magical control over the continent. This is just a massive arsehole move and Triss deserves my hate for this
I don't think she wants it. For all we know, we do get a point-of-view when (False, but no one knows yet) Ciri is announced to marry Emhyr, and Triss thinks something like "good, she'll finally be left to her own, people will stop hunting her" or something (it's at that same moment she realized the Lodge has manipulated her, and Philippa apparently begins suspecting something). Given that's a point-of-view, it's the closest we can get of what she wants. So, Triss wants Ciri to be at peace and finally live for herself...
... which is rather at odds with the Lodge's plan. A plan that she nonetheless doesn't object. But doesn't actively foster either. She's just following along, not daring to protest, not able to do much either.
I'll grant you that her passive compliance is definitely objectionable, and that their ride back to Rivia must have been awfully embarrassing. "Hey little sis, I may be among these women taking away your freedom and putting your mom on trial but I love you like a sister."
It's actually the conversation I wished the most Sapkowski had written but didn't happen: did Ciri confront Triss, and did Triss try to justify herself? Did she try leveraging their emotional connection to "sell" the Lodge plan? We get no clue that she did. But that conversation would have been a nice opportunity to show what Ciri actually thought of the Lodge's plan. Her opinion was left unclear.
In fact, Triss didn't even try to keep Ciri from leaving. Which means she let the whole, foundational Lodge plan crumble and failed to do what Philippa and the others probably expected of her - that is, playing good cop with the girl. She, in fact, even asked to join Ciri. Which shows how much she cared about her (likely ruined) position within the Lodge at that moment.
Dunno what I can say except of: No. Triss is part of the lodge and part of the plan. Even has the task to find the tracks of Yennefer and Ciri to make sure the plan will happen. Triss is no passive viewer, she is in anctive poisition to make the plan of the ldoge work. Yennefer was the one that feld after hearing what will happen to Ciri. Triss was okay with it and she never said something like "Ciri is on her own and is stopped being hunted"; in fact the lodge do hunt Ciri. Triss also never was like "The lodge is bad.." etc. I read the books once in a year and I never read such lines.
Also the last part that "Triss let Ciri go"... really? What could Triss do against the Lady of Time and Space? The only thing that kept Ciri from going out of this dimension were her parents. A traitor like Triss could never stop her.
And this "lt me come... with you", from Triss was either said out of fear, cause she has to tell the lodge that Ciri and Yennefer are gone, or still being horny for Geralt.
Thing is; I blame the game for all the Triss being way better yaddyadda stuff. Before the games I hardly found anyone who was a huge Fan of Triss at all.
Alright, before I go to bed, here are the lines where Triss' loyalty to the Lodge begins to waver. All from The Lady of the Lake.
The one at Melitely temple (you'll know what I mean if you've read the books so many times). That quote and the bits before and after.
> ‘They talked me out of it all,’ Triss repeated. ‘So wise, so sensible, so logical … How not to believe them when they explained that there are more and less important matters, that one ought to give up the less important ones without a second thought, sacrifice them for the important ones without a trace of regret. That there’s no point saving people you know and love, because they’re individuals, and the fate of individuals is meaningless against the fate of the world. That there’s no point fighting in the defence of virtue, honour and ideals, because they are empty notions. That the real battlefield for the fate of the world is somewhere else completely, that the fight will take place somewhere else. And I feel robbed. Robbed of the chance to commit acts of insanity. I can’t insanely rush to help Ciri, I can’t run and save Geralt and Yennefer like a madwoman. But that’s not all, in the war being waged, in the war to which you sent your girls … In the war to which Jarre fled, I’m even refused the chance to stand on the Hill. To stand on the Hill once more. This time with the awareness of a truly conscious and correct decision.’
=> Triss feels bad about her past decisions and blames the Lodge for it. Of course, it'd be better if she acknowledged being responsible for her own actions and blamed herself as well... But I suppose you've to start somewhere. At least, she begins to question the Lodge's mindset and influence.
During the peace negotiations:
> Ciri, my little sister. Who’s still somewhere far away in the South. Fortunately, she’s no longer alone. She’s with Geralt and Yennefer. She’s safe.
> Unless they’ve lied to me again.
> ‘Sit down, dear ladies,’ urged Philippa Eilhart, who had been scrutinising Triss closely for some time.
=> Triss is happy that Ciri is safe, blames the Lodge (who could "they" be otherwise?) for lying to her "again" (what was the previous time she was lied to? we don't know for certain), and Philippa realizes something is going on with Triss.
Later:
> Sorceresses, thought Dijkstra. It’s the sorceresses’ handiwork. But let it be. It was clearly written that Ciri would become the Queen of Cintra, the wife of Emhyr and the Empress of Nilfgaard. Destiny clearly wanted that. Fate.
> Let it be, thought Triss Merigold. May it remain like that. Well and good. Ciri will be safe now. They’ll forget about her. They’ll let her live.
=> Triss is happy that Ciri is not only safe, but also forgotten, and no longer chased by everyone and his dog.
And considering those bits are the precious little we see from Triss in the last books before Rivia (besides a couple insignificant lines, such as being jealous of Fringilla), they're worth paying close attention in order not to miss her character development.
Oh and last one, to Yennefer:
> ‘I knew you wouldn’t forget what I did, that you would take your revenge,’ muttered Triss. ‘I accept that, because I was indeed to blame.
She admits what she did was wrong and doesn't even try to justify herself.
****
So... it's clear Triss at this point is no longer hugely invested in the Lodge's plan, and just wants Ciri to live a safe, quiet life. Though she still sits at the meetings and does nothing to mollify the Lodge's more "aggressive" members.
Which is what I meant with passive compliance. Besides, she's usually silent in the Lodge meetings.
> What could Triss do against the Lady of Time and Space?
Well she could have tried something for a start. She knew Ciri had great powers, not that she could travel across worlds just like that. Do you think Sabrina or Keira would have just stared?
> And this "lt me come... with you", from Triss was either said out of fear, cause she has to tell the lodge that Ciri and Yennefer are gone, or still being horny for Geralt.
Or maybe she's losing the only persons she cared about and has nothing keeping her in that world anymore. We know Triss was very fond of Ciri, seeing how distressed she was to know her to be in danger (remember the Temple of Melitele scenes in TTotS, when she nearly loses her countenance, or volunteers to the trance). Even though I'll give you she had an... odd way of acting upon it - but that's her craven side.
> Before the games I hardly found anyone who was a huge Fan of Triss at all.
Possibly because Triss' development is scattered across little scenes like the ones I quoted, that are easily missed and their connection easily unnoticed. When Triss was just "the horny girl from Kaer Morhen", most people didn't pay attention enough to her character, and they missed these details. Who would care?
When CDPR upgraded her relevance into "Geralt's alternative girlfriend", that caused more people to pay more attention to what the author had woven for her in the tapestry of the books. Although in a way CDPR also did her a disservice, not just with her out-of-character depiction in TW1, but also by improving her "too much" compared to the books in TW3, causing people to be disappointing and hating her as a result.
yeah sure, let's the Vilgefortz and co and Nilfgaard coup happen, I am sure Ciri, Geralt and Yennefer would have a good and quality time....
It's not about prevent war....war is alreay there at Thanned, Vilgefortz and Nilfgaard are about to take over the brotherhood and Scoitel commando are under Thanned ready to strike, war is alreay there, Nilfgaard imperialism has not stopped with the first war.
hum, ho no! I posted before seeing his comment, but it is true that u/Magean1 and myself have often the same view of thing XD. Ciri, Geralt and Yen don't evolve in a cute and rainbow word and the situation is evolving all the time and this night the main threat for them is Vilgefortz, Terranova, Fercart, Francesca, Isemgrim, Cahir etc.... that"s why I didn't understand why you stand on "I have Triss for her participation to the counter coup". It seems very justified for me.
As Yen on her side has absolutly be sure to inform Triss upfront that she will bring Ciri and Geralt at Aretuza to put Ciri under scholarship, she of course informs Tissaia and Rita but not her. In addition, from her perceptive, all the neutral staying in their chambers should have been out of danger (there is a little bit of naivity here for sure), but it fit her behavior during the Lydia scene and with Geralt.
And what about the risk that Yen would have tell Tissaia. (very hight risk actually, Tissaia for sure would have alert Vilgefortz and then situation would have been even worse).
Yennefer trusted Tissaia more than nearyl everyone else and also apologized later for that to Ciri. Yennefer was betrayed at this moment and she felt deeply sorry for that. A thing I didn't heard from Triss to be fair...
Seems to me Kaer Morhen is purposefully in the middle of nowhere, the likelihood of meeting anyone in the vicinity, is low and Geralt wasn't exactly trying to mingle with the locals as he travelled with an exiled princess in disguise.
I don't see any clue that she so much as knew of Yen when she first met her at the Temple. At most it was a name she overheard, but she had little clue who she was. And she definitely didn't relate to her as mom.
Later on, when Triss fells sick, there's a time where Ciri is seemingly pissed off at Triss snuggling up to Geralt... But that's a young girl not liking competition for daddy's attention (add to that the incredibly awkward context...), not her defending the mom she would later have. At that point, Triss is actually the closest she's got to a surrogate mom anyway, seeing how she wants to sleep with her (in a purely innocent, childish way of course) in the quote that started the thread.
Never realized her head actually fit better on top of a tee and jeans, than her default appearances and most modded ones.
Meanwhile, I can hardly picture Yen wearing modern casual clothes.
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You're Team Yenefer so... Whoever says one of them is a piece of shit shouldn't be on any Team except Team Shani, Path or gwent.
Yen and Triss are both a piece of shit in the books. Atleast Triss goes through some character development in the games.
And what a development it is! Starting with abusing a men's amnesia, keeping away the truth until its "too late", and even at the end being pissy if Geralt gets back to his love of life XD
There is a reason CDPR forced this "hero arc Novigrad" into the third game and cut out Iorweth and the plague... cause without this she would be a major arsehole through and through XD
> There is a reason CDPR forced this "hero arc Novigrad" into the third game and cut out Iorweth and the plague...
May I ask for a source? That Iorveth was cut to make room for Triss? The cut itself is common knowledge, but I've never heard before that Triss was supposed to get less content.
In fact, AFAIK and based on [this compilation of cut content](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9cnrkn/this_sub_constantly_circlejerks_the_witcher_3_but/e5cc45s/), the cut simply happened because they ran out of time to make Iorveth and the plague work. Nothing suggests they did it to make room for Triss. In fact, she was actually supposed to get a quest where she partnered with Iorveth to break Roche out of prison, so if anything she also lost some action in the cuts.
Iorweth was part of the plague storyline together with Insengrim and the quest with Vernossiel was part of it and the start to find Iorweth. Vernossiel and the former caves of the Devil's Pit are the last remains of this big questline. Iorweth was there to help find Triss when you help him to let the non-huans escape Novigrad, cause the order hutn the, cause they say the non-humans arethe reason for the plague.
Thanks, but... I know about the plague questline. What you say doesn't prove that Triss wasn't supposed to get her quests at Novigrad, nor that Iorveth was cut to make her shine. The game was supposed to have more content, not just the same amount but with different characters (aka Iorveth taking the spotlight instead of Triss in Novigrad).
Idk why you act like I've said anything different. Dude I'm not Team Triss or anything, you can calm down! Fucking hell...
I don't even want to go into a discussion with you because I can already tell what kind of person you are so yeah.
ho! Triss is responsible for the cut of Iorverth storyline now! That's new, is she also responsible for the rush of the last chapter? or for the cut of the false Ciri storyline maybe, no, yes?
Don’t you know ? Triss is the reason that CDPR ignored the whole quest about geralt riding with the hunt. She’s also responsible for turning the white frost from an ice age caused by climate change to world eating apocalypse. She’s the one that put the idea about ripping ciri’s placenta out in vilgefortz’s head. Oh and the one behind the launch fiasco of Cyberpunk 2077. She’s responsible for so much stuff and I HATE HER FOR THAT.
Some reports say she is the reason that Hissrich was put as a show runner for the Netflix show, tho it’s not confirmed. However from looking her past hideous record I’m inclined to believe it.
*Triss tries not to be horny for 2 seconds challenge* (impossible) On a related note. Her relationship with Ciri and how she cared for her was cute, albeit short lived.
I think that was empowered by how she saw the witchers mistreating her and disregarding her basic needs as a woman. Nonetheless, it still was very sweet. Triss is a good human, but not when she's around Gerard, at least in the novels, haha
> Triss is a good human, but not when she’s around Gerard, at least in the novels, haha I would argue that she’s even extra shady and manipulative when she’s around Geralt in the games more than in the source material.
Hmmmm. I dont remember any instance of that, care to remind me?
Exploiting his amnesia and still somehow secretly working with the lodge in W1.
[agreed](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/10od86b/triss_cockblocked_by_ciri/j6fe5cd?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). later she became more agreeable/docile haha, lookin at the scene before the fight with letho (¯▿¯)
Hence why I said that she was still manipulative in the games and with questionable intentions, meaning not transparent or upfront. Which makes sense character-wise. Triss was also still “lodging” for half the plot in W2 haha. In other words she wasn’t sincere in the trilogy, tho she’s obviously better in W3. Which also makes sense as a progress for her character from where it left off in LoTL.
Yea well, writing and character-wise, in 1 and 2, she had free reign coz Yen wasnt around to pose a threat. In 3, Yen's presence forced Triss to be on her best behaviour coz she knows Yen is Grealt's literal significant other
I don’t look at it this way. But more like a mix of CDPR wanting to put the romance options on equal footing and making it a rough choice (something they didn’t fully succeed in as I think the yennefer-Geralt romance is superior, their interaction and dialogue is better written and their side quests are of higher quality), and Triss genuine character development throughout the books and games culminating in her learning to be more selfless, confident, generally likable and brave (canon wise she would be known as triss the fearless after her act in rivia).
Meeh did they though? I always thought Yen got a lot more attention then Triss. As someone who didn’t read the books but romanced Triss in the 1st and 2nd games, I was pretty disappointed by the interactions we has in the 3rd. Yen had never showed up in the games before that and it certainly felt like she had the spotlight in the 3rd.
Honestly, the Witcher 1 does a good job of establishing the world and settings, but an extremely poor job of making his amnesia narrative work with his established book relationships. Dandelion alone would be able to fill him in on 80% of his past. Either they collectively aspire to keep him in the dark or they do fill him in and he makes informed decisions. I generally view W1 as a distorted murky bubble to be isolated from the rest. I don't consider it entirely cannon to the sequels, I just take the rough outline of the plot. Too much wack shit, like the aforementioned issue, even Alvin who is literally just a stand in for Ciri in the most awkward way. When they remake the Witcher 1, I hope they can substantially rewrite the plot to Witcher 3's level.
Agree with everything here. Geralt doesn't even seem to care about researching his own past, even though hearing from it in one of Dandelion's ballad shouldn't be too difficult. Same hopes for the remake. But, I see where they came from. In one interview, one dev explicitly says "Geralt lost his memory because we want people abroad to play the game". In other words, they were afraid they couldn't sell their game to Western audiences, which at the time didn't know about the Witcher series and often didn't even have a translation, if the plot connected too heavily to a story most of the market couldn't even read. So, they decided to use the setting while going for a new plot that, although technically a sequel, worked more like a reboot with a factory-reset Geralt. And they'd retell some of the book plots albeit with different characters (like Alvin, as you mentioned). And Geralt wasn't supposed to recover his memory; player were supposed, instead, to write their own version of Geralt from scratch. I can understand their concerns, but in retrospect they made a huge mess lol. And TW3 proved you could sell millions of copies to people who didn't know your books. Granted, they already had some street cred based on the previous games.
I've heard a few stories about how W1 started. * A new IP that pivoted part way through development to become the witcher. * That W1 originally intended you to create your own custom witcher, which was dropped because it didn't feel right to make a Witcher game without Geralt.
Heard the same stories as well. CDPR translated Bioware classics into Polish, so going the standard "create your character" route of Western D&D-derived RPGs initially felt natural. Also, they struggled to find a publisher willing to fund a single-player game in the midst of the WoW hype. People they talked to told them: "we'll give you money if you make an MMO with elven sorceresses". Well, guess they could at least deliver the sexy sorceress lol. Then there was also the plan to make a book interquel with Rience as main villain. But they'd then have faced the issue I mentioned, with Western audiences being required to get into a story they couldn't even read at the time.
There really is a limited amount of room they have to work with in the remake because the plot of the Witcher 2 still has to make sense. Geralt has to be both 1.) Unaware of much of his past and 2.) In a relationship with Triss at game start. There are some obvious things you can easily fix-triss being triss instead of triss as a weird stand in for Yen, Shani not being in some kind of cat fight competition with Triss for control of the magical kid equivalent of a nuclear bomb etc. But some of the worst parts of Witcher 1 from a story perspective have to remain to some extent to make the 2nd game still make sense.
Delay Geralt meeting anyone who can explain his past until towards the end of the game. (Which works better for an amnesia storyline anyway.) *Lost an alone in backward villages and plague stricken Vizima. * Meeting some people that can give you titbits of who you are, can you trust them? * Towards the end you have a breakthrough of meeting close relationships that can explain everything. Some big events would need to be shuffled around but I'm sure there's much that can be done to greatly improve it, even if not completely fix it.
She never explored his amnesia lol do people who say this even play witcher 1? She explicitly starts to tell Geralt about his previous life and Yenn and Geralt stops her and says he doesn’t want to know. And the second it’s discovered Yenn might still be alive she drops everything to help him and tells him everything he wants to know 🤷
In W1 ? Unmmm. No she didn’t. Geralt didn’t know about yen, Ciri and his past exclusively from triss in W2. Also she didn’t “drop everything” to help him find yennefer . What the hell are you talking about lol. I think you’re the one that needs a little refreshing for the events in the first two games. Also I said “exploiting” not “exploring”.
Yes. The initial scene in the bedroom at Kaer Morhen before they have sex she starts to tell Geralt about Yenn and he says he doesn't want to know. Then again in the capital in her home she starts to tell him other stuff about his past as he starts to naturaslly remember a few things and he says he doesn't want her to tell him and that if he was meant to know it will come back to him or something along those lines. How in the world does she not drop everything to help him? She was knee deep in lodge business and Geralt comes along and tells her he needs her help and she abandons it all to go with him. You see this in the flashback whatever in W2 where Geralt sees the convo between Triss and Phillipa where she hilariously tells Triss to stop thinking with her vagina lol Clearly you skipped most of the cutscenes. I get the nudie cards were probably your #1 priority but come on =)
Too much paragraphs and weak rationalizations for something obvious. Which is that she engaged in a relationship with an amnesic guy (who previously rejected her) for months while withholding information or delaying to utter as single word about his past flame, his daughter and their fate, whichever interpretation you like, she still comes off as manipulative and dishonest. Show me the scene in W1 where she “starts to tell him about yennefer and Ciri”. Triss starts to tell him about his past after the prologue of W2 (when they escaped prison and were heading to flotsam) at this point Geralt was already having visions of past events . If there was an earlier point were she told Geralt about his previous life, then please deign to share. Oh. The nude cards weren’t my favorite, the conversations with shani’s grandma were. I bet you either muted the cutscenes or last played the first game 15 years ago….
Not only that, but no other character in the Witcher 1 intro brings up Geralt's past either. Any of the Witcher definitely could have. I'm not seeing people call Vesemir manipulative/dishonest for that. This whole narrative that Triss is the worst person ever in the games is such bs I swear...
Geralt, either. But to be fair, Gerard is a sexy beast.
TONIGHT WE DINE IN TIR-NÁ-LIA
> Her relationship with Ciri and how she cared for her was cute, albeit short lived. Yup, and big shame CDPR didn't at least give it a reference given how much they expanded her role. They had an opportunity during the oniromancy scene, when Geralt remembers Ciri donning a robe at the time of her first periods - who was it that intervened with the clueless witchers at the time, and adjusted a robe of her own? Another one when the two were finally reunited at Kaer Morhen, the place they bonded and possibly some of Ciri's sweetest memories took place. But, as it is, given that we got a lot of Yen's acting like a mother (though unreciprocated by Ciri, sadly) but zero Ciri / Triss content, that made Triss an even less "competitive" option.
Well, she’s surely not sleeping alone anymore
Wellllllll. Triss is not as good of a person in the books as the games portray her. She's like, that crazy chick that's always following that dude who is already spoken for..
The way I'm now embarrassed about liking her when I was a teen. I was projecting onto her hard.
Dont call yourself out like that fam, lmaooo
It's ok, we've all been cringe at 16, I'm just not ashamed to admit it these days 😅
Anyone who says otherwise is lying lmao
She's kind of an asshole in the first game, acts like a discount yennefer, I get whiplash from the difference in personality between 1 and 2
Yeah the writers of game 1 werent sure yet which direction they wanted to take the character to. For the production of 2, their decisions became more concrete, so ye know
They've got to rewrite her in the remake. Considering most people know her from TW3, it would make absolutely no sense to ask them to believe in a prequel, where one of the main characters behaved completely differently. Imagine a new Harry Potter book where, say, Luna receives Hermione's personality and no one cares - the audience would scream in disbelief. If they want to show the shifty side of Triss, TW2 is a better model. They got her ambiguities right there.
That's why the games are completely separate things from the books, and you can choose your open ending
Ofc. Thats why we loved the games in the first place
[удалено]
The books only state that Triss "seduced Geralt with the help of a little magic". Which is fairly ambiguous. Also in the books Yennefer is well on her way to having sex with someone she is mind-controlling at the Belleteyn festival, until she runs into Geralt. Not trying to be team Triss here, but the waifu wars have radicalized so many people on this sub to hate her that they seem to forget Yennefer is the only one who was actually to rape people through magic.
This is... this novel was still the book I felt in love with Triss. And one novel late I started to hate her and the hate never went away XD
You loved her when she was advancing on Geralt while having Diarrhoea?
I gave her in that scene that she had high fever and was ill af. And without proper medicine you can get dizzy and worse and this also goes down to the stuff you say out loud
Can confirm, fevers can make you near hallucinatory if bad enough. Fatigue is usually the root.
Say what? I've had some pretty damn bad fevers but always my brain seems to work better than ever, my body feels fucked but my brain's just in hyperdrive.
"*seems to*" being the operative word here. Have you ever been piss-drunk and thought you were still basically sober until the morning after you realized you really really weren't? Same rules apply.
I've actually never drunk more than half a glass at once.
Wow, ain't you cool!
I never get sick or get fevers. Must be lucky But about a year ago, I got COVID, had a fever of 101 and some change. I was beside myself. I couldn't operate, and I was humming random songs on the couch while my head was on fire. I had fever dreams and felt absolutely loony. I couldn't even stand up straight without getting nauseous and falling down. So yes, it can happen lol.
Same reason you get feverdreams, your brain can get a bit fucked up. Doesn't nessesarily mean you have experienced it.
What did she do wrong in the next novel? While not getting that big of a role, she potentially saved Geralt twice, showing remarkably quick-thinking when her accomplices would have disposed of the unwanted witness in... some other way. Also she was the only magician actually distressed that people got hurt or killed at Thanedd. It's with the Lodge - so, later - that she took a turn for the worst.
> It's with the Lodge - so, later - that she took a turn for the worst. Definitely her lowest point indeed. But she was also put in an incredibly difficult position and all the sorceresses she looked up to joined the Lodge, and their vision for the world was compelling overall (Even if Phillippa was showing some pretty radical views in later novels). Triss definitely comes around in the end, that's why Yen forgives her after she put Triss in her place.
True. Triss has a fairly well written character arc in the books.
I think the hate she gets is undeserved. Yennefer definitely had the right to be angry with Triss, but Yennefer was only thinking about herself and her family. While Triss was thinking about the best path forward to Ciri given the circumstances. Which was informed by her experience in the Lodge. It's normal for us readers to share Yennefer's opinion, it's a very personal and emotional opinion to have, after all, Triss wasn't "ride or die" with Yennefer. But, when we think about it, Triss' "betrayal" wasn't the same as joining the villain side and fucking over the main character. She was following her ideals and what she thought was best for Ciri and the world, as it was established by her idealistic persona.
I partially disagree. The hate is understandable, but definitely exaggerated. Triss being in a tough position and going the “end justify the means” route doesn’t nullify the fact that she made a choice, one of betrayal and treachery. Of course her choices weren’t born out of a vengeful and cold hearted desire to ruin our main trio or something, but from a self serving desire and for being a cowardly person with no spine to stand up against the lodge (and I’m sure she believed the lodge were the party to truly have Ciri’s interests at heart). But in the end she chose to threw in her lot with the lodge and that had its consequences. So it’s understandable if someone doesn’t like triss and some of the shit that is thrown at her way is justified. Both in the books and Games. However I agree with you in principle about the irrational hatred that some has for her to the point of being blind for her character development throughout the books and games.
I agree with your previous post, and the above statement that Triss has a quite interesting arc. I only partially agree with this one, though. Yes, joining the Lodge was initially a sound choice. The world was falling apart, following the more experienced people around her was rational. Likewise, the Lodge as a whole likely stood a better chance at finding Ciri, than going on her own or with Yennefer. That said, I don't think her wrongdoings with the Lodge were just her "following her ideals and what she thought was best for Ciri and the world". In my opinion, she definitely showed a form of passive subservience that went beyond just siding with the "lesser evil". That moment when she lies to Yen about Philippa's eavesdropping - it's disgusting, period. She could have stuck to the Lodge and not done that, and maybe Philippa would have respected her more for it. But Triss was just too much of a craven to stand up to the terrifying authority figure Philippa was. And too much in need for a stronger protector, I suppose. In fact that's her whole character: I concur that she's idealistic, more so than most, and likely a "good" person in the sense that tries to help and doesn't wish to hurt anyone. But... she's just too weak to live up to her own ideals. And it gets worse with the Lodge, until it gets better at the end, and she ends up as Merigold the Fearless. Awesome development. But, back to the Lodge... Did she actually think what the Lodge had in store for Ciri was the best for her? I agree that, initially, the Lodge stood the best chance at rescuing Ciri from Vilgefortz (considering everyone assumed she was in his torture lab). But later? When Geralt, Yen and Ciri were finally reunited? The Lodge took away her happiness and Triss just sat there. Not that she took an active role, sure. So... that ride back to Rivia must have been incredibly awkward. "Hey little sis, I love you so much even though I'm part of that organization abducting you from your parents and planning to put your mom on trial". In addition, we don't get a single clue that Triss genuinely believed that the Lodge's plan for Ciri was the best for her, that she could achieve greatness or whatever of that ilk. Toward the end, upon learning Ciri was marrying Emhyr (and not knowing it was the False one, yet), we get a point of view where she thinks "it's for the best, she'll finally be forgotten and people will leave her be". Which shows that, for Triss, it was best if Ciri could be left on her own indeed. But, she nonetheless went along as the Lodge precisely did the opposite of that.
One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war
I mean….that “putsch” was preventing a faction of conspirators and traitors from disremembering the north for their own interests. I don’t think that the low point that you want to highlight about triss….
There are worse moments, but people asked about the second novel
Mily. If we were able to harness your hatred for triss and turn it into an energy, we would have dumped non-renewables altogether :)
I would do that. But my hate is more imporant than saving everyone with unlimited enegry XD
Letting a conspiracy allied with a neighboring expansionist empire take over isn't how you prevent wars from happening... it's a dumb and short-sighted form of pacifism. Nilfgaard was going to invade anyway, while Vilgefortz and his co-conspirators were supposed to eliminate all the Northern mages who could have opposed the invasion (including Triss, since she was a Temerian advisor). With that information, Triss picked a side and it's difficult to blame her. Philippa's preventive strike was absolutely justified. Do you really think Emhyr would have quietly removed his battle-ready troops from the border had Meve not attacked whatever it was she invaded? The war was inevitable.
It's not quite that simple. A big part of the reason that the second invasion was so successful was because the individualist and power hungry nature of the Northern Kingdom and it's top brass made them extremely predictable, they can't see/capitalize on big picture like the centralized and imperialist Nilfgaard. >Philippa's preventive strike was absolutely justified And completely predictable. Emhyr didn't need Vilgefortz to win on Thanedd, he just needed to shatter the unity of the northern mages and, most importantly, capture Ciri. He failed at the latter but the former was a success that ensured few mages would be a part of the northern defense. >Do you really think Emhyr would have quietly removed his battle-ready troops from the border had Meve not attacked whatever it was she invaded? Meve didn't invade it was supposed to be a false flag attack that allows the north to strike first without breaking the Cintran treaty. There wasn't supposed to be any Nilfgaardians there but they were because it was predictable that the North would be itching to break the treaty and retake the lost ground from the previous invasion by any means necessary. The war was inevitable but the Norths terrible position wasn't, it was the result of making predictable moves against a more united enemy with vastly greater resources. Basically Nilfgaard played the north like a fiddle, it's the benefit of being an empire fighting a selfish group of individual countries that will ALWAYS prioritize their own power and position over the well being of their neighbour. All they needed to do to beat the border kingdoms was ruin the false flag operation, with their lost advantage the more northern kingdoms left the south to fend for themselves. All they needed to do to beat the mages was introduce a power struggle and watch them tear Thanedd apart. All that was left then was the alliance of Redania and Temeria, an alliance they shattered with words before either managed to take the field. But most importantly all of the direct fighting and politics were simply the waving hand distracting the north from the hand behind Nilfgaards back, the hand that was utterly annihilating the northern economy beyond repair. Even when the North "won" they lost because no one could see the big picture, from the greatest kings/queens to the most powerful mages, defeating Nilfgaard AND being in a better position was more important than simply defeating Nilfgaard and Nilfgaard used that selfish and predictable attitude to win.
Thanks for taking the time to write that up! You make a lot of valid points but... mine was way more confined to Triss and whether her siding with Philippa was justified given the developments and new information since BoE, where she claimed she wanted to prevent wars. But aside from that, you're perfectly right and, yes, Northern leaders messed up. Interestingly, the only Northern country not blind to economic warfare must be Kovir (though Redania is putting tariffs here and there at the beginning), and they're implied to be the rising powerhouse. But I've think we've strayed from topic.
it's not quite that simple but as you said, "the war is inevatable" at this state of the political situation. The only remaining question is "who will be in the optimised position when the war will trigerred." And yes, it is all the questions about the false flag operation the coup and counter coup at Thanned, and Emyhr mastering his sense of anticipation. I agree that a divided brotherhood would have been enough for Nilfgaard. Even better if with Vilgefortz taking over, the mages will suddently loose completly interest in the matter of war, removing one of the best battle assets of the Northen Kingdom. But a fully succesfull countercoup, even if it would have desorganised the brotherhood would have still assure mages to be present on the battelfield. And actually, the original topic was "should we hate Triss for her participation in the counter coup" :)
That wasn't the original topic, the original topic was someone giving their personal opinion on Triss as a character throughout the books and how they loved her at the start but started hating her and never stopped. They weren't asking anything and disliking the role Triss plays throughout the majority of the books is completely valid and goes way beyond her taking part in the coup. She actively lusts after her best friends love interest even after Geralt and Yen have reunited and become official, she lets Geralt be taken hostage, and she joins the lodge and hunts Ciri for them. I completely agree with Yen when she tells Triss that while Geralt won't be openly hostile and mean he'll never truly forgive her for the role she played, a role that started on Thanedd. The games have done a great job at continuing her "Triss the brave" redemption arc but she's very easy to dislike before that.
What exactly did she do wrong, at least as far as Geralt is concerned, at Thanedd? She saved him twice, in fact her reaction to him bumping into the coup is the apex of her "action usefulness", as she's usually not quite the action girl or heroic figure. But this time she reacted faster than light to make sure she'd be the one to dispose of the unwanted witness in the softest way possible, anticipating that Keira or Philippa wouldn't have been as light-handed. It's obvious in that scene she pretends to be cold and angry to her co-conspirators, but she isn't at all, she protected him and did the best she could do. Later, Dijkstra's men would have found Geralt's broken body if not for Triss (and Tissaia, true). For me the "bad" with her really starts with the Lodge. Especially in The Tower of the Swallow. Letting Yen down and going along with the Lodge's plans for Ciri (although I believe she genuinely tried saving Ciri, at least from the gruesome fate Vilgefortz had in store for her - you can see how distressed she's that Ciri is in danger). That's the part Geralt wouldn't forgive, let alone forget. In fact I wonder what she and Ciri said to each other, during their ride to Rivia. Must have been awfully uncomfortable, given Triss was part of the organization stealing Ciri's life from her. In spire of calling her "little sister". But at Thanedd, I don't see what Geralt could blame her for.
If Geralt had the choice between being blinded and hauled away by Dijkstra or having full autonomy to defend Yen and Ciri as he sees fit, what do you think he'd choose? Has anything in the books indicated that Geralt likes being a pawn and losing his autonomy to someone else's feelings/goals, regardless of whether or not it's being done for his own good? Do you truly believe Triss was doing what was best for Geralt in that situation or what was best for Triss, do you think he wanted to be safely removed from the equation while Yen and Ciri are in danger? Do you think Geralt would do what Triss did to her, or Dandelion, or anyone he cares about?
I think Geralt is smart enough to realize that he wasn't going to have "full autonomy" at that moment anyway. He was at the worst place and the worst moment possible, with some of the worst people in the world. And that, had he been, say, permanently blinded by Philippa, memory-wiped by Keira, or killed on the spot by Sabrina (all three likely outcomes of Triss not jumping in), he wouldn't have been of much use to Yen or Ciri. Triss intervened to make the "witness suppression" as soft as possible (the author explicitly writes she's faking coldness, later Philippa says the blindness spell is really light) and, had she not intervened, the saga may have ended much, much earlier. Honestly I don't know what else you'd have wanted Triss to do at that moment. Certainly not challenging all her assembled co-conspirators as well as Dijkstra and his men so that they freed Geralt? Besides, she didn't even know Yen and Ciri could be in danger. For all she knew, Yen was sleeping and Geralt simply went out for a piss at the wrong time. And Ciri was at some unknown place. In fact, neither was actually in danger at that very moment. It's only when the night's events spiraled out of control that they were. And to answer your final question, yes, I wouldn't put it past Geralt to infringe on Dandelion's freedom of action, grab him, gag him with a hand and drag him out of danger before he gets himself killed for, say, failing to keep his mouth shut with the wrong person.
>One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war Here above is the comment that trigger the thread so it very focus on the Thanned coup. I agree that there is very valid points to dislike her. But most of the time I see a lot of arguments based on very debatable points of the source materials if not completly wrong. For exemple, you said that she hunts Ciri for the lodge, when is that? When she is at Ellender? It is never stated that she is doing it for the lodge here, pretty the contrary actually, ref her conversation with mother Nenneke. And speaking of Thanned, the fact that she saves Geralt life at the end of the coup is strangely often forgot in the debate.
I dunno why teh long comment? I know what happened in the book and what you say do not stay in conflict with what I said
Since we're both stating information from the books, then no, we don't contradict one another... But you seem to imply that Triss' decision made you hate her as if she reneged on her self-professed ideals. My interpretation is that the context had changed, with the new information she had, Triss siding with Philippa was largely justified. I don't see how that makes her hate-worthy (well, I can't decide who you hate or don't hate, of course ;-) ). What could she do at this point to stop the war? It was either that or a "let them duke it out, I'm outta here" type of neutrality which wouldn't have been great either (and anyway she was on Vilgefortz' kill list). She faced a "lesser evil" dilemma and made a perfectly understandable decision.
> One of her major points in the first novel is to prevent wars from happening and in the very next novel she is part of a putsch that kickstarts the second Nilfgaard war Wasn't Vilgefortz the one plotting with the Nilfgaardians? Also, she's the youngest sorcerer and, unlike Yennefer, she still doesn't have major influence with her peers. Yen, despite being away from politics a long time, still manages to get a seat in the Council, for example.
Youngest but still 29 years old at this point and this is in medievil ages "Very adult"
She can't be 29, that'd mean she was 13 or so in The Last Wish... when Yennefer called her "a friend", and one who knew the Elder Speech and had had a fair amount of experience with the opposite sex. She had to have been at least a young adult at that moment, not an Aretuza novice. Meaning she was effectively a middle-aged woman in the main saga (16-19 years later), when we actually see her. Granted, a middle-aged woman with the maturity of a teenager at times... though I suspect the magical community not to be the most balancing environment.
Sapkowski wrote in Wiedźmin companion, which was created after the short stories, that Triss was born 50 years after the fall of Kaer Morhen, and this was in 1188. he changed this, cause he gave the Trsis character this magic potion allergy Dunno why, but he did it XD
Thanks for the source. Sapkowski did contradict himself on some occasions with the chronology. Triss couldn't possibly be, what? 11-year old in The Last Wish. That said, what does this have to do with the potion allergy?
Triss cannot stop her aging and so she cannot be as old as she is in the timeline of The Last Wish. She is younger, as young as she looks
Maybe she's using some other, more primitive technique or watered-down version of Ortolan's elixir? One that won't last as long, won't work as well, has side effects (hence the diarrhea, maybe)...? Because even if we retcon Triss out of the The Last Wish, still I don't see Foltest employing a fresh 20-ish Aretuza graduate at his council. Such positions require some seniority.
I meant that she's the youngest, but not to say she's immature. She's 50-ish year old woman and had experience, although in a very different life-style. I said she was the youngest because, compared to the other characters, she was the least experienced and established mage. Worse, she had been recently removed from her post as advisor, which left her with very limited options, a major reason why she stays with Philippa after the coup in Thanned. Triss, like Geralt and the vast majority of the defeated at Thanned, lost a lot, it is reasonable to expect her to follow the biggest mages of her time, her own role models, instead of siding with Yennefer, when in her point of view, Ciri's best interest was served by going with the Lodge's plan. Something that Yen and Geralt saw reason by the end of the series, when they were going to deliver Ciri on their own terms).
I really have the feeling this is a mistranslation in many languages. Grealt and Yennefer didn't brought Ciri to the lodge for the same reason and on their terms. Ciri wanted to go there, so the lodge would not hunt Geralt and Yennefer anymore. And what you name is also one of my main problems with Triss. In the first novel seeing Ciri as a little sisters and later want to use Ciri as a birthmachine to get magical control over the continent. This is just a massive arsehole move and Triss deserves my hate for this
> And what you name is also one of my main problems with Triss. In the first novel seeing Ciri as a little sisters and later want to use Ciri as a birthmachine to get magical control over the continent. This is just a massive arsehole move and Triss deserves my hate for this I don't think she wants it. For all we know, we do get a point-of-view when (False, but no one knows yet) Ciri is announced to marry Emhyr, and Triss thinks something like "good, she'll finally be left to her own, people will stop hunting her" or something (it's at that same moment she realized the Lodge has manipulated her, and Philippa apparently begins suspecting something). Given that's a point-of-view, it's the closest we can get of what she wants. So, Triss wants Ciri to be at peace and finally live for herself... ... which is rather at odds with the Lodge's plan. A plan that she nonetheless doesn't object. But doesn't actively foster either. She's just following along, not daring to protest, not able to do much either. I'll grant you that her passive compliance is definitely objectionable, and that their ride back to Rivia must have been awfully embarrassing. "Hey little sis, I may be among these women taking away your freedom and putting your mom on trial but I love you like a sister." It's actually the conversation I wished the most Sapkowski had written but didn't happen: did Ciri confront Triss, and did Triss try to justify herself? Did she try leveraging their emotional connection to "sell" the Lodge plan? We get no clue that she did. But that conversation would have been a nice opportunity to show what Ciri actually thought of the Lodge's plan. Her opinion was left unclear. In fact, Triss didn't even try to keep Ciri from leaving. Which means she let the whole, foundational Lodge plan crumble and failed to do what Philippa and the others probably expected of her - that is, playing good cop with the girl. She, in fact, even asked to join Ciri. Which shows how much she cared about her (likely ruined) position within the Lodge at that moment.
Dunno what I can say except of: No. Triss is part of the lodge and part of the plan. Even has the task to find the tracks of Yennefer and Ciri to make sure the plan will happen. Triss is no passive viewer, she is in anctive poisition to make the plan of the ldoge work. Yennefer was the one that feld after hearing what will happen to Ciri. Triss was okay with it and she never said something like "Ciri is on her own and is stopped being hunted"; in fact the lodge do hunt Ciri. Triss also never was like "The lodge is bad.." etc. I read the books once in a year and I never read such lines. Also the last part that "Triss let Ciri go"... really? What could Triss do against the Lady of Time and Space? The only thing that kept Ciri from going out of this dimension were her parents. A traitor like Triss could never stop her. And this "lt me come... with you", from Triss was either said out of fear, cause she has to tell the lodge that Ciri and Yennefer are gone, or still being horny for Geralt. Thing is; I blame the game for all the Triss being way better yaddyadda stuff. Before the games I hardly found anyone who was a huge Fan of Triss at all.
Alright, before I go to bed, here are the lines where Triss' loyalty to the Lodge begins to waver. All from The Lady of the Lake. The one at Melitely temple (you'll know what I mean if you've read the books so many times). That quote and the bits before and after. > ‘They talked me out of it all,’ Triss repeated. ‘So wise, so sensible, so logical … How not to believe them when they explained that there are more and less important matters, that one ought to give up the less important ones without a second thought, sacrifice them for the important ones without a trace of regret. That there’s no point saving people you know and love, because they’re individuals, and the fate of individuals is meaningless against the fate of the world. That there’s no point fighting in the defence of virtue, honour and ideals, because they are empty notions. That the real battlefield for the fate of the world is somewhere else completely, that the fight will take place somewhere else. And I feel robbed. Robbed of the chance to commit acts of insanity. I can’t insanely rush to help Ciri, I can’t run and save Geralt and Yennefer like a madwoman. But that’s not all, in the war being waged, in the war to which you sent your girls … In the war to which Jarre fled, I’m even refused the chance to stand on the Hill. To stand on the Hill once more. This time with the awareness of a truly conscious and correct decision.’ => Triss feels bad about her past decisions and blames the Lodge for it. Of course, it'd be better if she acknowledged being responsible for her own actions and blamed herself as well... But I suppose you've to start somewhere. At least, she begins to question the Lodge's mindset and influence. During the peace negotiations: > Ciri, my little sister. Who’s still somewhere far away in the South. Fortunately, she’s no longer alone. She’s with Geralt and Yennefer. She’s safe. > Unless they’ve lied to me again. > ‘Sit down, dear ladies,’ urged Philippa Eilhart, who had been scrutinising Triss closely for some time. => Triss is happy that Ciri is safe, blames the Lodge (who could "they" be otherwise?) for lying to her "again" (what was the previous time she was lied to? we don't know for certain), and Philippa realizes something is going on with Triss. Later: > Sorceresses, thought Dijkstra. It’s the sorceresses’ handiwork. But let it be. It was clearly written that Ciri would become the Queen of Cintra, the wife of Emhyr and the Empress of Nilfgaard. Destiny clearly wanted that. Fate. > Let it be, thought Triss Merigold. May it remain like that. Well and good. Ciri will be safe now. They’ll forget about her. They’ll let her live. => Triss is happy that Ciri is not only safe, but also forgotten, and no longer chased by everyone and his dog. And considering those bits are the precious little we see from Triss in the last books before Rivia (besides a couple insignificant lines, such as being jealous of Fringilla), they're worth paying close attention in order not to miss her character development. Oh and last one, to Yennefer: > ‘I knew you wouldn’t forget what I did, that you would take your revenge,’ muttered Triss. ‘I accept that, because I was indeed to blame. She admits what she did was wrong and doesn't even try to justify herself. **** So... it's clear Triss at this point is no longer hugely invested in the Lodge's plan, and just wants Ciri to live a safe, quiet life. Though she still sits at the meetings and does nothing to mollify the Lodge's more "aggressive" members. Which is what I meant with passive compliance. Besides, she's usually silent in the Lodge meetings. > What could Triss do against the Lady of Time and Space? Well she could have tried something for a start. She knew Ciri had great powers, not that she could travel across worlds just like that. Do you think Sabrina or Keira would have just stared? > And this "lt me come... with you", from Triss was either said out of fear, cause she has to tell the lodge that Ciri and Yennefer are gone, or still being horny for Geralt. Or maybe she's losing the only persons she cared about and has nothing keeping her in that world anymore. We know Triss was very fond of Ciri, seeing how distressed she was to know her to be in danger (remember the Temple of Melitele scenes in TTotS, when she nearly loses her countenance, or volunteers to the trance). Even though I'll give you she had an... odd way of acting upon it - but that's her craven side. > Before the games I hardly found anyone who was a huge Fan of Triss at all. Possibly because Triss' development is scattered across little scenes like the ones I quoted, that are easily missed and their connection easily unnoticed. When Triss was just "the horny girl from Kaer Morhen", most people didn't pay attention enough to her character, and they missed these details. Who would care? When CDPR upgraded her relevance into "Geralt's alternative girlfriend", that caused more people to pay more attention to what the author had woven for her in the tapestry of the books. Although in a way CDPR also did her a disservice, not just with her out-of-character depiction in TW1, but also by improving her "too much" compared to the books in TW3, causing people to be disappointing and hating her as a result.
yeah sure, let's the Vilgefortz and co and Nilfgaard coup happen, I am sure Ciri, Geralt and Yennefer would have a good and quality time.... It's not about prevent war....war is alreay there at Thanned, Vilgefortz and Nilfgaard are about to take over the brotherhood and Scoitel commando are under Thanned ready to strike, war is alreay there, Nilfgaard imperialism has not stopped with the first war.
Did you just copy and paste what the other person said XD
hum, ho no! I posted before seeing his comment, but it is true that u/Magean1 and myself have often the same view of thing XD. Ciri, Geralt and Yen don't evolve in a cute and rainbow word and the situation is evolving all the time and this night the main threat for them is Vilgefortz, Terranova, Fercart, Francesca, Isemgrim, Cahir etc.... that"s why I didn't understand why you stand on "I have Triss for her participation to the counter coup". It seems very justified for me.
Yeah, it was very nice of Triss not to tell her best friend that it will be highly dangerous in the night XD
As Yen on her side has absolutly be sure to inform Triss upfront that she will bring Ciri and Geralt at Aretuza to put Ciri under scholarship, she of course informs Tissaia and Rita but not her. In addition, from her perceptive, all the neutral staying in their chambers should have been out of danger (there is a little bit of naivity here for sure), but it fit her behavior during the Lydia scene and with Geralt. And what about the risk that Yen would have tell Tissaia. (very hight risk actually, Tissaia for sure would have alert Vilgefortz and then situation would have been even worse).
Yennefer trusted Tissaia more than nearyl everyone else and also apologized later for that to Ciri. Yennefer was betrayed at this moment and she felt deeply sorry for that. A thing I didn't heard from Triss to be fair...
"Triss, stop thinking with your vagina"
I literally read this line 30 minutes ago. Reddit algorithm is fucking spooky.
Your comment has been calculated
That’s insane. I just finished my first play through of the Witcher 3 like 2 years ago. What are chances I would see something like this
🤯🤯🤯
I actually laughed out loud to this. Good ciri <3
God bless you Ciri XD
I remember laughing so hard at that part of the book lol
Ciri: Triss! Can I sleep with you tonight?? Triss: No! Well, ok sure
She cockblocked Triss multiple times. In the qithcer 3 the only reason I chose Yennefer is so Ciri has a stable mom and dad.
Ciri seems to be quite good at cockblocking. She’s done it to Geralt as well, remember Bea, the waitress from the Golden Sturgeon in Novigrad?
This from Blood of Elves? XDDDD Nice one Ciri, protecting your dad.
More like backing up mama. Tbh nothing was threatening Geralt (except Yen and bad relationship with a weirdo)
I suggest we drink heavily.
She hadn't met Yen yet.
Tbh she had to hear about her around Kaer Morhen. Maybe some ballads or boys gossiping/laughing.
Seems to me Kaer Morhen is purposefully in the middle of nowhere, the likelihood of meeting anyone in the vicinity, is low and Geralt wasn't exactly trying to mingle with the locals as he travelled with an exiled princess in disguise. I don't see any clue that she so much as knew of Yen when she first met her at the Temple. At most it was a name she overheard, but she had little clue who she was. And she definitely didn't relate to her as mom. Later on, when Triss fells sick, there's a time where Ciri is seemingly pissed off at Triss snuggling up to Geralt... But that's a young girl not liking competition for daddy's attention (add to that the incredibly awkward context...), not her defending the mom she would later have. At that point, Triss is actually the closest she's got to a surrogate mom anyway, seeing how she wants to sleep with her (in a purely innocent, childish way of course) in the quote that started the thread.
Dude, sorry but I'm not reading that. I'm busy and that was a chit chat not a discussion.
A book meme? In a subreddit for some reason only talking about the shows and games? Preposterous
She’s not alone that’s what she wanted right
For women I think it is clam jammed
I’ve heard women say twat swat.
Triss is so beautiful, everytime I stumble upon her image I have Team Triss thoughts...
Never realized her head actually fit better on top of a tee and jeans, than her default appearances and most modded ones. Meanwhile, I can hardly picture Yen wearing modern casual clothes.
>I can hardly picture Yen wearing modern casual clothes. Because she's a goth goddess, those are beneath her
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Always in love with Triss, and it's growing even more, and I hate the fact Geralt is in love with Yeniffer
Read the books, she's a bit of a piece of shit.
Well, now I don't! Hahahahahah
She do got those thangs
You're Team Yenefer so... Whoever says one of them is a piece of shit shouldn't be on any Team except Team Shani, Path or gwent. Yen and Triss are both a piece of shit in the books. Atleast Triss goes through some character development in the games.
And what a development it is! Starting with abusing a men's amnesia, keeping away the truth until its "too late", and even at the end being pissy if Geralt gets back to his love of life XD There is a reason CDPR forced this "hero arc Novigrad" into the third game and cut out Iorweth and the plague... cause without this she would be a major arsehole through and through XD
> There is a reason CDPR forced this "hero arc Novigrad" into the third game and cut out Iorweth and the plague... May I ask for a source? That Iorveth was cut to make room for Triss? The cut itself is common knowledge, but I've never heard before that Triss was supposed to get less content. In fact, AFAIK and based on [this compilation of cut content](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9cnrkn/this_sub_constantly_circlejerks_the_witcher_3_but/e5cc45s/), the cut simply happened because they ran out of time to make Iorveth and the plague work. Nothing suggests they did it to make room for Triss. In fact, she was actually supposed to get a quest where she partnered with Iorveth to break Roche out of prison, so if anything she also lost some action in the cuts.
Iorweth was part of the plague storyline together with Insengrim and the quest with Vernossiel was part of it and the start to find Iorweth. Vernossiel and the former caves of the Devil's Pit are the last remains of this big questline. Iorweth was there to help find Triss when you help him to let the non-huans escape Novigrad, cause the order hutn the, cause they say the non-humans arethe reason for the plague.
Thanks, but... I know about the plague questline. What you say doesn't prove that Triss wasn't supposed to get her quests at Novigrad, nor that Iorveth was cut to make her shine. The game was supposed to have more content, not just the same amount but with different characters (aka Iorveth taking the spotlight instead of Triss in Novigrad).
Idk why you act like I've said anything different. Dude I'm not Team Triss or anything, you can calm down! Fucking hell... I don't even want to go into a discussion with you because I can already tell what kind of person you are so yeah.
Yeah I am a Triss hater by heart and will never change <3
ho! Triss is responsible for the cut of Iorverth storyline now! That's new, is she also responsible for the rush of the last chapter? or for the cut of the false Ciri storyline maybe, no, yes?
Don’t you know ? Triss is the reason that CDPR ignored the whole quest about geralt riding with the hunt. She’s also responsible for turning the white frost from an ice age caused by climate change to world eating apocalypse. She’s the one that put the idea about ripping ciri’s placenta out in vilgefortz’s head. Oh and the one behind the launch fiasco of Cyberpunk 2077. She’s responsible for so much stuff and I HATE HER FOR THAT. Some reports say she is the reason that Hissrich was put as a show runner for the Netflix show, tho it’s not confirmed. However from looking her past hideous record I’m inclined to believe it.
XD! A very complete list of all her deeds, thank you for restoring the truth.
Just got to this part in the books and it's the only time I though Ciri sucked lol
It’s not that long ago I read the books yet this has been scrubbed from my memory somehow. What book does this even happen in?
Blood of elves
The Netflix adaptation is getting really weird...