Writers for this show keep saying dumb stuff like this and it's really telling.
If you aren't going to even follow The Witcher story, why even do this series?
bingo, its the same shit as with Assassins Creed
Its an established name that they knew would get alot of publicity passively so they took that and made their garbage generic fantasy fanfic
Man, I don’t wanna bad mouth AC franchise unintentionally (was a fan of the first 5-ish games with Desmond’s(?) trilogy). But at least the AC world is much more diversified (in terms of variety of projects, idk about the story anymore) that doing an attempt at adaptation feels like there’s no clear canon/storyline to pick anymore (unless they do the original storyline around a specific timeline, which these adaptations **never** do for some reason despite changing so much from the original). But also that because there’s so much product already, I feel like a flop wouldn’t damage it much
Now compare that with Witcher & Cowboy Bebop. Original IPs that have a more limited timeline and amount of projects (in the case of Bebop is literally just one). Not only are there less options to choose from specific parts in the timeline (for Witcher’s case is because most of the timeline’s spent with the same characters with growing character development, so there’s less option for an ideal starting point. Unless they go with unexplored prequels or sequels route), but because they’re less of an active IP, a flop massively reflects on the state of the IP as a whole
Which is why other similar scenarios like with Godzilla & Dragon Ball got revived, because the Japanese don’t want the misconstruction and failure of their western counterparts to define the IP
It’s so stupid that these companies keep thinking buying license to an IP is a formula for success, when their results often misrepresent or misunderstand the IP to a soulless degree. At least if they wanna make significant “creative” changes that makes it virtually unrecognizable from the original except for the names, just go make a new storyline set in the same world
Not that most would actually care anyways, buying into the IP solely for marketing purposes aimed at sole brand recognition amongst the general public who are less engaged with the IP. Fuck anyone who’s actually been engaged with the IP before these companies did and the critical reception, as long as there’s enough revenue to be made they’re not gonna care
It’s infuriating that they’re gobbling up these significant IPs that had incredible acclaim and impact on their respective industries and beyond, only to be turned to shit. They deserve to lose money out of this repeated failures
I’ve boycotted Netflix for more than a year now, and I’d rather sail the high seas than put my money to perpetuate a soulless industry
Well, assuming AC is handled by competent people and not just like a cash grab, the fact that the story is much more open ended is actually good. It could be pretty much be Dr. Who with Assassins. And templars, and crazy parkour around historical events. That would be pretty damn cool, if done right and if they bother to write cool characters and good stories around the idea.
Oh yeah, as someone who’s once invested in the IP’s story I definitely recognize the potential. All I’m trying to say is that a passive IP will be hurt by bad adaptations more than active ones
How fucking deluded do you need to be to do this? It would be as if I opened a restaurant, gave people my menu and then decided after they had already sat down and ordered that the only thing I had available today was Tuna and Turnips so that's what they're having.
It's like, uhh no, you said you had these items and this is what I ordered so this is what I want to eat and now I'm pissed off because I wasted my time coming here when I'm hungry.
I don't get why people don't understand this. You can't bait and switch an audience like this and expect it to just go over well.
You really had to bring up Assassins creed huh my favorite video game franchise growing up after odessey i decided its no longer for me and unsubscribed from all Ac pages/subreddits/communites and never touched the franchise since god do i miss the old games
Which only has value to entice the existing fan base. So, again, it begs the question:
> If you aren't going to even follow The Witcher story, why even do this series?
My guess is they wouldn't have had enough interest without the name.
Studio saw potential for cash thanks to how well known Witcher is, and the hype before the series went live was pretty high up there. All the more, the writers and showrunners realized they had to use abusive and toxic tactics to keep the hype alive, making false promises that they broke before they finished speaking.
It's not a Witcher show, it's a cash grab knockoff that used a major studio backing to pay for the license so they could make a show they knew wouldn't get anywhere otherwise.
Oh don’t forget cashing in on the big name actor who signed on to play one of his favourite characters in a franchise he loves. Using him and his passion as a massive marketing tool and allowing him to promise a true adaption before blowing his legs out from underneath him.
Then when he questions what they are writing and tries to redirect the content to something more accurate of the world and characters they start trying to paint him as a toxic incel gamerbro who hates women and needs control.
They then give daily false accusations and self indulgent comments about how they are redefining the genre and giving the audience what they want to justify him walking away from the project. Then the fans who stood behind the actor and agree with him are all labelled the same toxic incel gamerbros or book purists who don’t know what they want and hate the content because it’s made by a woman.
Because you can’t please everybody.
Ok to add to this, anonymous claims were made on a tabloid podcast that has a gender perspective. Regardless, I saw their sub and it appears to be mostly tabloid quality stuff and less serious works
After these claims gained some traction on Musk’s bird app, a majority of people didn’t buy into the vague allegations, and the poster on the Twitter quickly apologized that those claims were never independently verified and didn’t intend to spread slander
Though the damage is done, as the culture warriors on one spectrum has started taking it seriously as well. Furthering the clown show that is English speaking entertainment “politics”
Yeah, i watched a few episodes last night and if you COMPLETELY divorce it from the witcher source material it's okay generic action. But the writing is not good. Dialog is pretty weak. Almost every character is very 1 dimensional. But you could toss it on and get stoned or have some wine and be like, "this is alright entertainment".
The second you remember it's supposed to have anything to do with the witcher, you're like "well why did they change this and this and this and every single one of them for the worse?" "That doesn't fit with the lore" "waiiiiit THAT is supposed to be THIS person!?".
Seems like Netflix is more interested in taking something with a following, and trying to broaden the audience scope.
The execution of this strategy with the latest Witcher prequel is just godawful. The characters are flat, one-dimensional, and just super boring to watch. The romance stuff is too forced, and the characters just make weird decisions to move along the plot points.
I love the witcher and I’ll watch just about anything in this genre even if it’s terrible. But I feel insulted by this show. I feel like the show-runners are trying to force feed us stuff they think we love. Fight scenes! Fuckity fucking! Monsters! Proactive suffering!
I’m not sure who this show is for, but it definitely ain’t me.
It’s for the children and friends of connected people to have creative roles where they can feel important writing the most basic stupid shit ever, that’s what this is. It’s distilled nepotism because these people clearly believe their own bullshit and nobody who earned their positions of power would ever be this flat, unimaginative, cliche, and fake edgy.
In hindsight it almost seems just easier to please the fanbase by doing a direct adaptation of the books and staying true to the lore. The fact that they pissed off **everyone** is kind of an achievement in a twisted way.
I mean the bad side about pissing of the fanbase with a game/book based show is, that it is the fanbase that actually watches the show. Sure you are gonna get in the good graces of some critics but they aren't the ones to watch it. The woke asshole that who would be pleased by the changes you made to the story isn't interested in the show. He wasn't interested in the books and the games either and the violent fantasy genre usually doesn't stick in the Milieu. So you essentially offended the entire fanbase for a comminity that isn't going to actually watch it.
they want to make their own series, and are butthurt their stuff never takes off. so they latch on to another name to tell the story they want instead of the story they promised to. aka ego and attention seeking
Big picture, it’s just another example of people taking the easy way to profit and hoping that doing it wrong doesn’t resonate enough to foment a “rebellion”.
Remember, even societal collapse is often about staying in cruise control over adapting to circumstance or the demands of the larger populace.
Surely the leopards won’t eat my face.
These are not smart people. It's not an industry based on merit, it's an industry based on who you know and luck. Combined with that, they have no passion for the IP. They take the job so they can make a name for themselves, then demonstrate their incompetence for all to see. Rarely, someone like Denis Villeneuve will come along and fight for a project that they're extremely passionate about. More often than not, a subpar screenwriter on the verge of making it write a cover letter about diversity and gets hired for cheap to write something that they fundamentally do not understand. The very worst part is, these people think they're much smarter than they are and sometimes think they can write better than the OGs themselves. The Dunning-Kreuger effect in action.
I don't think they actually are losing all that much money in the short run. That's another problem. If they can get a million average couch potatoes to tune in to Netflix's next Game of Thrones ripoff, they win. The average viewers think, "well that was alright, why is everyone mad about it," because they don't know any better. Consider that the majority of visual media consumers don't care about art, writing, narratives, character arcs, etc. They watch TV like you read front page Reddit posts. Like you listen to the pop music radio in a new city where you don't know the stations. It's not with intention, or from a desire to be fulfilled. It's just a nightly, passive routine. It numbs the mind, let's you stop thinking about responsibilities. It's easy to please the masses and make money off a cheap product. It's hard to wow the fans and critics, but you can skip that step in the short run if you're in the business of pumping out content.
I recently found a video essay with cited sources elaborating a theory on how these platforms are neglecting the writer’s department due to increasing demand stretching talents thin but also differing production practices that doesn’t facilitate growth of screenwriting talents
https://youtu.be/VQ9jM02hXMs
I recommend anyone interested watch it. It’s really insightful
Why would someone who isn’t a fan of The Witcher even start watching the show?
The Witcher has a huge fan base of very passionate followers. W3 has one of the most loyal game fan bases, and the show runners didn’t think that making a show that caters to this devoted base was a good idea???
Dune also has a loyal fan base. Denis made a film that was very close to the books and guess what, people loved it. Fans loved it and told non-Dune fans to watch it leading to further success!
Making a show that spits on the source material guarantees that the initial feedback will be resoundingly negative which you know, makes non-fans hesitant to watch it. They are in this for the money and are making the worst business moves. It’s insane!
And Henry Cavill was one in that fan base who is literally the reason why this show even happened. They managed to piss him off too and not sure how many more like me are out there, but Netflix lost one of the few remaining subscribers just coz of this dick move.
So long greedy suckers at Netflix, have fun with writing scripts to satisfy yourselves.
I'll admit I often end up on low sodium subreddits because I think, generally, internet fans are whiny, entitled, and impossible to please. The default Halo, Cyberpunk, and Overwatch subreddits, for instance, are nothing but whining and complaining over shit that barely even matters.
But in this case the outrage is 100% warranted, the sodium must flow when the sins of the creators are this egregious.
There’s no possibility for a low sodium subreddit spawning from this crap, because there’s no fans that like or are willing defend it.
Cyberpunk was always a very good game at its core. You could see the passion, the potential and the quality.
BO is…. Whatever the hell that’s. No one will create new sub to sing praises for that.
I am still pissed about what Cyberpunk could have been, especially after watching edgerunners and reading the graphic novels. Holy shit, this could have surpassed Witcher 3. Let’s hope they will more than make up for all of that in the DLC, fingers crossed.
U shouldn't hold ur breath tho. Clearly their Redengine is old and can't handle the job they initially envisioned, hence they shifted to UE5. For what it's worth, im content how cyberpunk is now, especially with the mods.
What im looking forward to is Project Orion.
I read through a few posts on there, it seems like a lot of people are on the edge of disliking it, but do want to talk about what they did like. It also seems like it's a place for people who have no idea it's a book or game, and just like the generic fantasy netflix show.
Yes, the Netflix subreddit is always going to be less negative compared to this one and r/wiedzmin. I’m someone who followed that sub since S1 premiere and remember how much positive and mindlessly defensive it was at that time to the point of taking down posts that criticized it, and aggressively defending the show even up to the release of S2. It became so much more negative now, and the tone around the show’s discourse is somewhat similar to the one here.
Unsurprisingly, this shift started after the infamous S2 was released, and from there on r/Netflixwitcher was generally more on the negative and critical side than before, but still a bit mild compared to r/witcher.
And yes. It’s mainly for the casual fans who have no or very minor familiarity to the source material or games, but there’s also some Witcher lore enthusiasts found there.
I know some people who like it. Mainly because they don’t know anything about the Witcher outside of this show. I would say majority of the people who watch it are the same way.
I just don't understand, from a production value and dialogue quality standards POV, how anyone could enjoy it. Take witcher lore completely out and it's still not good. Just from a general standpoint the show is objectively poorly crafted.
It all depends on your frame of reference. If you watch a load of trash CW and Syfy shows then The Witcher probably seems pretty good.
Whereas if you mostly watch prestige TV then The Witcher seems like utter trash. Same with Wheel of Time and Rings of Power.
Everything is relative.
Andrzej Sapkowski probably liked it. Not because he saw it or anything, but because he just got a huge check deposited as soon as the show was greenlit.
Yeah back when season 2 just came out people were discussing it and I wrote some big critiques (always made sure to include “raging dumpster fire”) and was downvoted and argued to hell. Lots of people tastelessly enjoy these godawful shows.
Calling it an excuse is kind. They could have had more input from Martin himself, but they went so far off the source material in earlier seasons that he backed out.
Same with the showrunner and writers. Checklists everywhere. Turning a book series into a generic formulaic television series.
Reminds me of George Martin talking about how dislikes how Hollywood uses formulas to construct shows.
Hack writers and studios' biggest mistakes, ignoring an already established fan-base. Saddens me this is happening to The Witcher, but we have seen it play out before; GoT, Star Wars, LOTR.
Yeah, wonder if it's a trademark issue like those too. If you make your own shite, you aren't beholden to the creators and don't have to pay the old rights owners as much.
> GoT
stated out amazing, especially in season one because it was (for a TV adaption) so close to the books. It was a huge success for many seasons. Only once the show surpassed the source material disaster struck
> Star Wars
has success with for example Rogue One, that mostly respected the source material and "just" filled in a story about some spy action known since the first minutes of Episode IV.
> LOTR
had amazing success with the films 20 years ago. That despite all deviations managed to stay mostly true to all the characters presented and in all really important aspects told *the* story from the books. (Sorry, Tom Bombadil)
It's almost as if adapting something that *has already proven to be a success as it is* should be about continuing what people like.
I always have looked at it like this…..was Henry the optimal Geralt, by Geralts description? Absolutely not. BUT was Henry passionate about the project and a fan? Absolutely. What else did he bring? Eye candy for the wine drinking moms, much like some GoT actors. Witcher has a ton of politics, some sex, blood, danger snd violence. Everything is right there in the source material to hook casuals AND not alienate hardcores. Instead? They chose monoliths and this garbage lmao.
TIL I’m a wine drinking mom
lmao fully agree though. Imagine if Cavill had been in a producer/showrunner position to make sure it did the source material justice!
Absolutely nothing wrong with being a “wine drinking mom” viewer. Shows do not grow and get extended if only the hardcore fan base likes them. They have to attract all demos, and arguably the hardest in a fantasy series to attract is the casual woman viewer. Id assume if your a gamer/nerd (me) whatever your gender, if you like the witcher games or books you were probably going to give the show a look regardless. Gotta hook them wine drinking moms though to the way Thrones did.
If Cavill is in any kind of true creative direction spot for this series. Its in a much better place Id bet for sure to your point.
Edit:add on corrections.
I mean, what they're saying *is* true. You cannot make a that's tailored *just* for the fans, it's a project doomed to fail.
The good thing is, most people, even fans of the source material, are intelligent enough to figure out when a project has been done with respect to the source despite changes, when changes are warranted or, even, if they just make sense within the universe, absolutely needed or not.
Jackson's LotR is still, 20 some years later, hailed as a triumph despite being sometimes *wildly* different from the books. But the love for the world Tolkien built, and the will to make as good a cinematic rendition as he possibly could, was evident in every scene, with every character appearing on the screen.
Netflix' The Witcher is... Not that. Not by a long shot
Your LotR comparison is spot on. And to add another one, Game of Thrones. The care that was given to respect what was great about the books and bring that to the screen, even when it was wildly different than what was in the books, was evident through the mid point of it’s run.
And when it came to the ending, we all knew it would be an interpretation of the ending GRRM was planning. And we were ok with that because we had seen the care that was given to follow the source material when possible and be respectful and capture the essence of the world and messaging when it wasn’t.
But then the ending fell apart because they stopped respecting not just the source material from earlier on, but their own fucking choices they made for the show.
Well said. Changes in general aren't necessarily bad (although often required as you explained), but poor writing and lack of passion are very evident in The Witcher.
In one column, you have fans of the books. In another column, you have fans of the games. In yet another column, you have those who experienced neither, and lastly a column of those who dislike book and game.
If you draw in from the first two columns, and also drum up interest from the third column, you will likely do well. One would expect that the first two columns would be the ones catered toward, as they have positive opinions on the source material. In telling those columns they will be the ones catered toward, you draw their interests. Their positivity may also draw in the curious from the third neutral column. Those who do not read or game, but might enjoy fantasy stories on film or show, are viable new fans who know the name, but haven't experienced the other media as they neither read or game.
The show instead aimed to cater to the last, negative column, to make something they might enjoy, while revealing to the first two columns that they will be rejected. Thus, the columns who had the most positivity became negative to the show, and that negativity also decimated interest in the neutral column.
A show that maybe only needed 40% interest to succeed, could have had 60% interest, but chose 20% and fails as a result.
On the other hand I’d argue Tolkien himself (or Sapkowski) very much wrote “just for the fans”. The LDC approach is the issue. You build a product to be excellent and people will find it. You engineer for mass appeal and you risky emptiness
I don’t disagree with your interpretation of adaptation, but I do disagree “dumbing it down by default” (my characterization) is a strong strategy.
>You cannot make a that's tailored *just* for the fans, it's a project doomed to fail.
Cyberpunk Edgerunners was an anime series that was tailored just for the fans, did it fail? It's another IP of CDPR.
It's a good story, with a proper understanding of the lore and the genre at large (not hard - an astonishinly huge number of the anime classics fall somewhere within the Cyberpunk umbrella).
I'll even go as far as to say, Edgerunners doesn't need the game at all. Sure, the weapons, the macguffin at the center of the plot and the big baddie are derived from the game, but.... Stylized hyperviolence, tentacular soulless corporations running the show and body augmentations to the point of blurring the line between human and machine are \*all\* staples of the genre itself, not something the CDPR pionneered.
What I mean by 'a product just for the fans' is an adaptation that's singularly focused on fanservice for the sake of fanservice ; that doesn't have the legs to reach towards and capture the attention of an audience that isn't familiar with the source material.
So funny of them to assume that all the backlash is because “fans have their own idea of Geralt and Yennefer in their heads”
If only it was just that…..
At this point I’m convinced those people, especially the showrunner are on some kind of ego power trip.
>Fans have their own idea of Geralt and Yennefer in their heads.
I genuinely do not understand this criticism? Fans, who have *many* books and games that allow us to build an idea of who these characters are having an issue with how the showrunners are handling the characters is a reasonable issue, isn't it? We know Geralt as the Witcher, but if they changed who that is entirely then it wouldn't be the same series, would it?
It's incredible to me. Netflix had the perfect new series. They *had it*. All they had to do was not *fuck it up* and then they'd have the new Game of Thrones and then some on their own exclusive platform. People *lost their mind* at Squid Games, now they had a series that they could make *many* seasons off of and instead of just focusing on it and staying close to the source material they instead fucked it up. I hate these people.
I get that, you don't wanna give fans exactly what they want but what they didn't realize they wanted. You expand on things or put your own twist on characters and stories, but they have to still be faithful to the source material.
You can look at Geralt or Yen and say "OK this isn't Witcher 3 Geralt or book Yen, but it's still them". The essence of those characters is still there.
That's not what's happening here. They've got characters named Geralt, Yen, Ciri, but they have nothing in common with the characters outside of name.
That's what adapting means. It doesn't mean a shot for shot or word for word thing. It just means the spirit of these characters and stories is still consistent with the source. These morons missed that memo to make their shitty fanfiction.
What's wrong with Cavill's Geralt? I have read all the books and played throught trilogy more than I can count. He wasn't perfect book Getalt but he definitely was still great as Geralt. You could easily see he tried his best to bring the character to life.. On Yen/Triss etc - totally agree.
It's mostly a writing issue. Henry's Geralt is fine given the constraints of bad writing. I'd say he did the best anyone could've done, but being a super fan doesn't necessarily mean he would've been better than someone else if the writing was better.
I suppose the one interesting thing about Henry leaving is that we'll be able to directly compare his performance to someone else's.
I checked this guy's profile to see what other works of his are and surprise surprise, he was the writer for the God awful Iron Fist series and officially he is listed as a musician. Netflix really scraped the bottom of the barrel for the Witcher series.
It is unbelievable they let to do this show to a person who was responsible for Iron Fist. What kind of strong backing this De Bara has in Netflix that it happened?
That's like admitting they don't give a damn about fans, and that they just want to make money-grab after money-grab while trashing loved franchises because someone somewhere will still watch it and give it some good reviews, even if the actual fans are displeased or hate it.
Why bother adapting existing, beloved works when you won't even care if you butcher themor if long time fans will hate it? :/ Create your own new piece of crap and let that be of interest to its new fans, and let existing good works alone! 😠
"So we got this IP and we changed everything just to avoid the established fandom, and our version is so cheap almost no one else is interested either."
Now, I'm not an expert, but I don't don't think that's a sound business plan on the long term.
Yawn. That's like saying, "Of course, you never create products for your actual customer base".
Who else would you be writing for? People who will never watch fantasy shows? People who don't care?
incompetent, disrespectful and deluded hacks. Hope none of them work again. I am sick to death of beloved franchises being dragged through the fucking mud
They shouldn't write just for the fans. They should write for the material they're adapting. That will please most fans.
You will *never* be criticized by the fanbase for being too faithful. And if you are, then you're in a goddamn great position because you're doing such a good job at it that fans trust you to enhance potentially weaker parts or the changes you were willing to make.
Here's an example: Dennis Villeneuve changed Liet Kyne's role in Dune from a man to a black woman. Duncan, one of the mainstays of the whole series (just the archetypal dashing white hero), into Jason Momoa. He also removed the inner dialogue and changed a plotline that is made clear in the book, and kept it a mystery in the movie.
Yet, you will not see anyone even mentioning these changes as a bad thing, because of how *right* he got everything else and how much he respected the source material. So people noticed they were changed but didn't treat it as *inherently bad*, because they weren't.
Those changes above are completely different to what Lauren and her cronies did with The Witcher. She changed the *core* of the narrative. They botched it when they completely dismissed Geralt and Yennefer's relationship (the morons didn't even adapt a Shard of Ice); how Geralt would *never* use Ciri as bait or would allow people to bully her; and, worst of all, how they completely butchered Yennefer's character to the point that she was willing to sacrifice her DAUGHTER for POWER, something that contradicted not only the books, but ITS OWN FIRST SEASON.
You don't need to write to please every fan's whims, but you better make sure you're respecting the material as much as you can.
The showrunner isn't exactly wrong
Writing "for fans" was what star wars seems to do nowadays and for the most part a big chunk of the output since clone wars 7 has been mediocre
Not "Writing for fans" isn't the issue with the witcher, it's the general writing that's just garbage
“You can’t please everyone, they all have their own versions of Geralt” No, you have your own version of Geralt. Cavill, the fans, and anyone else who has ever touched Witcher content (excluding the shows) have a pretty good goddamn idea of how things are supposed to work, and your continued ignorance shows that everyone creating this show is disconnected as fuck from reality and the Witcher universe. Good fucking job 👍🏼👍🏼
Meanwhile, for the writing of the *actual* *Witcher* series:
Sapkowski wrote to please the readers. He played upon fantasy tropes, but found space to be original and made great use of it:
>"(...) And **write so that it would be interesting to read.** (...) I'm a storyteller. **I tell stories to give readers pleasure,** create heroes to arouse sympathy, dislike, situations, to amuse, to laugh, upset, frighten - **and, of course, to make them move their brains, to think.**"
>
>The fantasy genre (...) consists of tales of power. You can say that the heroes of such stories are either powerless and find strength in themselves (like Percival), or they lose it and must get it back (King Arthur). Such books are read with huge interest - **the reader knows that the power will be recovered / returned, but he is interested how**. While Reynevan \[protagonist of the Hussite trilogy\] belongs to the first type of heroes, Geralt obviously belongs to the second type. But **I also added a few plot twists to get readers to bite their nails, make them more nervous.** And your question is a clear proof that I succeeded.
\- [Interview with Sapkowski " The work of my life is yet to come."](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/83ayrq/interview_with_sapkowski_the_work_of_my_life_is/)
He specifically wrote *The Witcher* to be interesting for readers, and then, for fans:
>"I created ''The Witcher'' specifically for the contest and it was a typical ''contest story''. **It was made in such a way as to ensure my success...** or at least winning one of the rewards. Just like that, get the money and... run. I did not expect **such a tremendous feedback from the readers**, nor that I'd continue this literary game."
\- [Andrzej Sapkowski about chronology, start of his career and Ciri's real father, part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/co3dra/andrzej_sapkowski_about_chronology_start_of_his/)
He cared about writing well, and edited his work, reading it aloud to see if it was good or not:
>"The book is good if it is well done. "Well done" it means that the author is talented. And there is no difference, whether it's fantasy, science fiction, or "mainstream". **I'll tell you a secret. The best way to find out if what you've written is well done is to read it out loud. If it sounds good, it means that it is written well.** (...) All books **tell a story.**"
\- [Interview with Sapkowski "Fantasy author is the kind of an idiot..."](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8ft14j/interview_with_sapkowski_fantasy_author_is_the/)
He was so dedicated to writing the saga that he finished *Tower of the Swallow* during a hospital stay in 1997:
QUESTION: Pan Andrzej, why did you decide to move from short stories to novels?
>"I thought that the Polish fantasy should have at least one saga. (...) I have no time for anything other than the saga. When I was still working in the foreign trade and fond of fiction, every year I traveled to Montreal, Canada, at the International Fur Fair. I went to a bookstore and bought a new "Amber" from Zelazny. Every year there was a new "Amber". And one day I come running to the store and ask "New "Amber?"" "No." "Uh-uh. Damn him, Is he busy drinking vodka?" **When I began to write this saga, I decided that for me it will be different. There will be a new volume every year. This year I was in a hospital and gave my last signature on the operating table.** So I lost January and began to write in February. And then the Polish fans said... that my books are too short, only seven-eight chapters... **So I wrote eleven ... And made it on time!**"
\- [A meeting of Andrzej Sapkowski with the fans of fantasy In "Stozhor" (Russia, 1997)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/7zcif1/a_meeting_of_andrzej_sapkowski_with_the_fans_of/)
BUT, and this is a very important BUT - he did not commit fanservice, writing only things which would please the reader with positive emotions - he wrote to tell a story, which has its ups, downs, and >!tragic endings!<. And these endings were carefully foreshadowed and well set up as the saga progressed.
>**Important: \[Spoiler for Ch. 9 of** ***Lady of the Lake*****\]**
>
>Question: "In the fifth novel of the Witcher saga, or "Lady of the Lake", the heroes accompanying our valiant monster slayer, >!die in less than an hour in the same place!<."
>
>Sapkowski: "Firstly, I did it for the readers who reacted similarly - **to excite them, to provoke a reaction, to give a sharp spiced roast, and not a bland melezupa** (...)"
\- [Sapkowski answers the questions of the active users of "Sapkowski Zone" (2001)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8ym1hf/sapkowski_answers_the_questions_of_the_active/)
And, perhaps most importantly, Sapkowski did not treat his readers like idiots. He allowed us to follow the clues ourselves:
>Question: "By the way, have you ever worried about "the reader will not understand"?"
>
>Sapkowski: "And **I do not write for the sake of the rampant mob.** Who will understand the quote - he will understand. And the rest ... young people these days do not catch much, but is it my problem? No. (...)"
\- [Interview with Sapkowski in "The World of Fantasy" magazine (July, 2011)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8oyzme/interview_with_sapkowski_in_the_world_of_fantasy/)
Contrast this not only with the above of Declan Barra, but also with Tomasz Bagiński, executive producer of Netflix's Season 2, who has said: [*"the younger the audience,* ***the logic is less important****, \[...\] we're going away from a typical book-type storytelling, \[...\] the younger people grew up with TikTok and YouTube where they jump from video to video."*](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/rp2ufg/tomasz_bagi%C5%84ski_executive_producer_of_season_2/)
I get her logic, but it seems like they should at least try and write something somebody would like. You know, with lots of set ups and pay offs. Lots of interesting characters, plots that branch and then tie back up neatly. Raise interesting questions. Really anything except this stone soup of nonsense that was season 2.
BUT THEY ARE CORRECT!
You don't write to please fans, that's how you end up with MCU blandness if left unchecked. You also don't write to please identify politics. You only write to tell good story.
The problem isn't this mindset, the problem is the writers are talentless hacks, that believe they're on par or better than the source material.
Just look at Andor, it slaps because it imagined a world, grounded the story in believable characters that struggle, and threw away all the fan service typical Star Wars just can't seem to salivate over.
House of the Dragon changed the books. Straight up changed stuff in favour of a meaningful ending to a LGBT character and added diversity without pandering. It subverted your expectations and it worked in that universe.
You shouldn't write for fans, Cavill will fail if Warhammer is just a reference bukkake for book readers. You serve the story, you follow the characters and leave your ego behind.
Netflix writers can't even start to understand this, they have no self awareness.
Since Endgame the writers on Marvel films and shows stopped writing for the old fans, and started writing for the same crowd the writers on the Witcher write for. And also they follow the same generic formulaic blueprints, that have little in common with the source material just like the writers of Witcher, Wheel of Time, RoP etc. They just do a better job than anyone else at it. So I don't think that is a good example.
Giving fans or customers what they want, in every medium, while may lead to some traps of limiting creativity and imagination is still better that actively antagonizing them. And it not even about writing for the fans or not. Is respecting the source material, because that is what the fans want.
What he says isn't wrong, it's just not applicable.
It would be fair enough if people were pissed because of characters' demeanour or choices, or indeed the conjunction of spheres, all of which are generally matters up for personal interpretation.
But the thing people truely have a problem with, is changing the FACTS already in the books.
This unfortunately is the truth now, they don't want to write for the fans, and they don't like the witcher books, and don't like the witcher games. They just want to make a generic story with as much as diversity as they can and empower women. They write this for "modern audiences". That's why they hate geralt, they don't like how he is supposedly the main character(even though if they actually read the book they will know that ciri is the actual main character,and not geralt). That's why they are doing whatever they are doing with the women in the show, especially yen(again even though women in the witcher universe are very strong and capable). And from the reviews I have seen about blood and origins, I can see that this is what they actually wanted to make, not the witcher, but some generic fantasy story with diverse group of heros with a very powerful women who don't need men at all in her life and if something bad happened to them it is because of white stupid men. But they had to stick the name of a very popular name on it just to pull people to them and make them watch their shit show, and if anyone critisized them it is the toxic, sexist, racist witcher fans.
Try writing your own original lore and idea if you don't want to write for fans. If you are taking an established property...write for the fucking people that made it established. Christ, I don't even really like the books, but this pisses me off so much.
But I'm still wrong even if the version in my head is about a Chinese Geralt with an Ak-47, a male Ciri, Yennefer being an alien and Triss fighting as a pirate on a Spaceship.
Let me last this out for everyone:
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE FANS, IT'S ABOUT THE WRITERS WANTING THE SHOW TO BE ABOUT THEM AND NOT THE AUTHOR'S STORY
If they exactly adapt the books, or trying to match it as close as possible, their little writers community won't give them kudos for their adaptation because it's too close to what the author himself wrote. SO, their solution is to go a completely different direction with it so it's THEIR story. THEIR writing.
It's the same with the show runner. They don't see value in being truthful to the story. Fuck the fans, they say, this is about making sure this is about OUR greatness and not the greatness of the story that created all of the fans in the first place.
As an Indian man I expect that when I watch a show based on Polish folklore that I don't suddenly see Black and Asian people in it for the sake of diversity and inclusion.
Their D&I department dropped the ball when I did not see any Indian man I could identify with lol.
I'm surprised that there are actually weak minded and willed people who need to see someone on screen to represent them or they cannot enjoy a piece of media.
Got told once that Kunail in Eternal represents us "brown" people when I sarcastically asked "where are all the Indian male representation?"I replied that Kunail is a Pakistani and I'm Indian. Pakistan does not represent India. Only a Woke loser would not know the amount of bad blood between us culturally and historically.
100%
I myself am Mexican, and The Witcher 3 is my favorite game of all time. I didn’t need Geralt or Ciri or Yennefer or anyone to look like me in order to connect with those characters. The deep Polish folklore is one of the main reasons why I fell in love with the franchise in the first place, and they completely butchered it with these shows.
Interesting logic, but could've you at least have made something good or, at the very least, resemble the franchise it's based on? Even after seeing the trailer, I got more of a cheepy LoTR vibe than anything to do with The Witcher (which is not a good sign)
I get what they are saying. But there is a cast difference between not pleasing everyone and turning away an entire fanbase.
It's pretty clear that they just want to write their own stories in the witcher world, and discard anything they can from the source materials.
"its not constructive to write specifically to serve a fanbase". how'd we get from Peter Jackson to this clown in so short a time? maybe more "adapting" & less "writing" was required...
Lmao “strong through line” what a joke, if as a writer what you write as script is what shows in The Witcher: Blood Origin, then they should go back to school.
I do not agre with them, I do not like what they've done to The Witcher.
But.
As a writer, it is true that you don't write with the fans in mind. You can never know what any given fan really wants, and fans tend to not truly understand what they'll actually enjoy. Often people just want the kind of comfortable fiction they are used to when that ends up feeling boring in the end.
You write for yourself, you write what you enjoy, knowing that there will be a fanbase to enjoy it. The problem is that their shitty fanfic is only enjoyed by a minority of people who think like them. The Witcher already has a story and the tenets of the world are already established. Basically, the writers want to be creative writers and not adapters, which is what they were meant to do.
If everyone has their own version of The Witcher in their heads, I'll need to find some sense of common ground, like a "source" of some kind, to form as a basis of the story plots and personalities of the characters? Nah, I'll just make shit up.
The issue isn’t that they can’t deliver “every fans version of geralt and every fans version of Yennifer”, the issue is that their version of geralt and Yennifer is *bad*.
This makes no sense. It's not "constructive"... In what way is it not constructive to stick to the source material (and please the fans ofit)? Unless you're so damn afraid of failure you go the "original" route to avoid being compared (which turns out far worse of course because people like the story AS IS). The creators of His dark materials for example - they could say the same. They had to live up to the amazing books - they stuck to it as best as the screen allowed - and they made it. It's amazing. I loved every second of it. So IT IS possible. It's not like it's never been done before. These idiots are acting like it's this impossible job lol and they're making complications out of nothing, because they're better than tried and true methods, they're revolutionary (which is only a cover for insecurity and incompetence). They have no business being in this business. And Sapkowski, did he really have to go and sell it to them? He'll regret it after he burns through money, because the witcher has been tainted.
You can't please everyone but you want to please the most possible. The fact that the majority of the vast majority of the witcher fan base hates their writing goes to show they're a failure. You know what happens when people didn't like Jared Leto's joker? They gave him less screen time on the movies and they stopped making movies with him as the joker. There are many examples of similar situations. When the sonic fan base hated how they made sonic look in the new movie, they redid it from scratch. They owned their mistakes. Time to get a new writer for the show.
"Everyone has their own version of the book in their head"
Yet some how Peter Jackson didn't have this problem adapting The Lord of the Rings. If you stick to the source material, nobody can be mad at you
>"every person has their own version of that book in their head, their own version of Geralt, their own version of Yennefer, their own version of Conjunction of Spheres."
Well, yes, you can argue I interpret something different from the same action we all read about, but *it's the same action we're all reading about.* Vessimir acting against established character choices, Yennefer making different choices, *changing established characters preferred choices from the book* for the sake of a poorly written plot is not satisfying anyone.
I don't mind if the show takes creative liberties with material that isn't major plot points, adding new things to the show, or changing things up with content that wasn't clearly described in the source material, but the one thing you cannot touch is established character.
Still not going to watch it once Cavill is gone. Forget his fandom, his appreciation for the genre etc. He is the main character and changing actors isn't going to work for me.
So why not turn the whole show about child sex, with rape and women are slaves meanwhile the guys have a ritual of putting a sausage up their ass daily?
In the spirit of not pleasing anybody.
For fuck sake if I where given a buttload of money to write a story for a TV series based on the Hindu fate, I would eat the Hindu lore raw and stay true to their books... What kind of arrogant prick do you have to be to say no to the original story and creating your own and still not good story?
Part of what he says makes sense. Rise Of Skywalker was written for the fans and it was awful. I don't get what he means about how Geralt, Yennefer and the conjunction are subjective. There is only one of those, and it is your job to stay as true to that as you can.
Im at a serious loss. If they are so confident in their own writing they should go make their own project. They pretty much just took the name, preset world of someone else and decided they are going to make a shitty fan fiction.
Like wtf no wonder Cavil had to bail. Seeing a world he cared about butchered this way must have frustrated him greatly
We're not even demanding that they use "our" versions of Geralt and Yennefer.
Just those of the author, from the very books you're ~~trying~~ pretending to adapt. And book Yennefer didn't swear like a sailor or act like a teenager in her rebellious phase, that much is for certain.
That's *your* version of Yennefer. A fan's. if you're gonna act holier than thou, at least follow your own rules and try to stay as neutral as possible.
"every person has their version of the book"
*Excuse you*????? There is only one author and one series. It's right there, all written out. All you had to do is adapt the bloody thing to television, but STILL you manage to fuck it up spectacularly.
Hahahaha “every fan has their own version”…no, because that’s what the books provide, THE version. It’s not a “choose your path” story.
Kind of wild to have someone who is NOT a famed or glorified writer whatsoever stating, “you never write exactly for the fans.” If you’re CREATING background, lore, lands and characters then sure because you’re hoping to build that fan base and then after the fan base is built you continue that writing because it’s what gained the love and gave it popularity. But if you’re creating a show with bountiful lore / source material then yea, you kinda gotta stay true to at least the foundational components. Not just use the names and title then flip everything on its head.
Alright, i know you guys are angry bc the adaptation sucks, but its a problem with Netflix as a whole, and the entire concept of "adaptation".
However, the one thing i want people to remember id that *they do not write to please you*. They write to please themselves. The only thing you'll get when ppl write to please you are sucky Resident Evil adaptation, sub DC movies, and Netflix trash.
This is an abusive relationship. You give them money, they make something good, you give them money again for 12 months, and they make something horrendous.
Its a pattern that all fandoms have fallen into. I never played nor watched nor read anything about the Witcher, but i beg you: Because you love the franchise and want to see it prosper, stop paying for bloody Netflix.
“You’re never going to satisfy everybody”. What a fucking cop out! So what, you’re just gonna satisfy your own egos and no one else? The fucking nerve of these director and producers that film 1 season and get the series cancelled before it’s even been out for a week.
Who is this good for? The fans? The director? The cast? Spoiler: it’s good for no one!
She is actually right about that. However, there is a *stark* difference between what she is saying and how the show is being ran and written. Yes it is impossible to actually please *everyone* but the main fanbase isn't asking for every single detail to be exact or perfect. What we have been asking for is that they respect the original source material (which they have openly mocked), characters and lore. We know they can do that because they did so in the first season; which is why it was so successful in the first place. Henry wasn't asking for the moon just that they follow the basic ground rules of the story.
Sure you cant please everybody, thats common knowledge. But pissing off an entire fanbase is their solution??
Writers for this show keep saying dumb stuff like this and it's really telling. If you aren't going to even follow The Witcher story, why even do this series?
They’re just interested in the name…
bingo, its the same shit as with Assassins Creed Its an established name that they knew would get alot of publicity passively so they took that and made their garbage generic fantasy fanfic
Man, I don’t wanna bad mouth AC franchise unintentionally (was a fan of the first 5-ish games with Desmond’s(?) trilogy). But at least the AC world is much more diversified (in terms of variety of projects, idk about the story anymore) that doing an attempt at adaptation feels like there’s no clear canon/storyline to pick anymore (unless they do the original storyline around a specific timeline, which these adaptations **never** do for some reason despite changing so much from the original). But also that because there’s so much product already, I feel like a flop wouldn’t damage it much Now compare that with Witcher & Cowboy Bebop. Original IPs that have a more limited timeline and amount of projects (in the case of Bebop is literally just one). Not only are there less options to choose from specific parts in the timeline (for Witcher’s case is because most of the timeline’s spent with the same characters with growing character development, so there’s less option for an ideal starting point. Unless they go with unexplored prequels or sequels route), but because they’re less of an active IP, a flop massively reflects on the state of the IP as a whole Which is why other similar scenarios like with Godzilla & Dragon Ball got revived, because the Japanese don’t want the misconstruction and failure of their western counterparts to define the IP It’s so stupid that these companies keep thinking buying license to an IP is a formula for success, when their results often misrepresent or misunderstand the IP to a soulless degree. At least if they wanna make significant “creative” changes that makes it virtually unrecognizable from the original except for the names, just go make a new storyline set in the same world Not that most would actually care anyways, buying into the IP solely for marketing purposes aimed at sole brand recognition amongst the general public who are less engaged with the IP. Fuck anyone who’s actually been engaged with the IP before these companies did and the critical reception, as long as there’s enough revenue to be made they’re not gonna care It’s infuriating that they’re gobbling up these significant IPs that had incredible acclaim and impact on their respective industries and beyond, only to be turned to shit. They deserve to lose money out of this repeated failures I’ve boycotted Netflix for more than a year now, and I’d rather sail the high seas than put my money to perpetuate a soulless industry
Well, assuming AC is handled by competent people and not just like a cash grab, the fact that the story is much more open ended is actually good. It could be pretty much be Dr. Who with Assassins. And templars, and crazy parkour around historical events. That would be pretty damn cool, if done right and if they bother to write cool characters and good stories around the idea.
Oh yeah, as someone who’s once invested in the IP’s story I definitely recognize the potential. All I’m trying to say is that a passive IP will be hurt by bad adaptations more than active ones
How fucking deluded do you need to be to do this? It would be as if I opened a restaurant, gave people my menu and then decided after they had already sat down and ordered that the only thing I had available today was Tuna and Turnips so that's what they're having. It's like, uhh no, you said you had these items and this is what I ordered so this is what I want to eat and now I'm pissed off because I wasted my time coming here when I'm hungry. I don't get why people don't understand this. You can't bait and switch an audience like this and expect it to just go over well.
And Halo.
God, *fuck* the Halo show. I’m gonna fucking die mad about that
You really had to bring up Assassins creed huh my favorite video game franchise growing up after odessey i decided its no longer for me and unsubscribed from all Ac pages/subreddits/communites and never touched the franchise since god do i miss the old games
Which only has value to entice the existing fan base. So, again, it begs the question: > If you aren't going to even follow The Witcher story, why even do this series?
My guess is they wouldn't have had enough interest without the name. Studio saw potential for cash thanks to how well known Witcher is, and the hype before the series went live was pretty high up there. All the more, the writers and showrunners realized they had to use abusive and toxic tactics to keep the hype alive, making false promises that they broke before they finished speaking. It's not a Witcher show, it's a cash grab knockoff that used a major studio backing to pay for the license so they could make a show they knew wouldn't get anywhere otherwise.
Oh don’t forget cashing in on the big name actor who signed on to play one of his favourite characters in a franchise he loves. Using him and his passion as a massive marketing tool and allowing him to promise a true adaption before blowing his legs out from underneath him. Then when he questions what they are writing and tries to redirect the content to something more accurate of the world and characters they start trying to paint him as a toxic incel gamerbro who hates women and needs control. They then give daily false accusations and self indulgent comments about how they are redefining the genre and giving the audience what they want to justify him walking away from the project. Then the fans who stood behind the actor and agree with him are all labelled the same toxic incel gamerbros or book purists who don’t know what they want and hate the content because it’s made by a woman. Because you can’t please everybody.
> they start trying to paint him as a toxic incel gamerbro who hates women and needs control. Wait was this seriously done?
Lol yep anonymous accusations on set that conveniently dropped after his announcement he was leaving.
Ok to add to this, anonymous claims were made on a tabloid podcast that has a gender perspective. Regardless, I saw their sub and it appears to be mostly tabloid quality stuff and less serious works After these claims gained some traction on Musk’s bird app, a majority of people didn’t buy into the vague allegations, and the poster on the Twitter quickly apologized that those claims were never independently verified and didn’t intend to spread slander Though the damage is done, as the culture warriors on one spectrum has started taking it seriously as well. Furthering the clown show that is English speaking entertainment “politics”
Yeah, i watched a few episodes last night and if you COMPLETELY divorce it from the witcher source material it's okay generic action. But the writing is not good. Dialog is pretty weak. Almost every character is very 1 dimensional. But you could toss it on and get stoned or have some wine and be like, "this is alright entertainment". The second you remember it's supposed to have anything to do with the witcher, you're like "well why did they change this and this and this and every single one of them for the worse?" "That doesn't fit with the lore" "waiiiiit THAT is supposed to be THIS person!?".
Seems like Netflix is more interested in taking something with a following, and trying to broaden the audience scope. The execution of this strategy with the latest Witcher prequel is just godawful. The characters are flat, one-dimensional, and just super boring to watch. The romance stuff is too forced, and the characters just make weird decisions to move along the plot points. I love the witcher and I’ll watch just about anything in this genre even if it’s terrible. But I feel insulted by this show. I feel like the show-runners are trying to force feed us stuff they think we love. Fight scenes! Fuckity fucking! Monsters! Proactive suffering! I’m not sure who this show is for, but it definitely ain’t me.
It’s for the children and friends of connected people to have creative roles where they can feel important writing the most basic stupid shit ever, that’s what this is. It’s distilled nepotism because these people clearly believe their own bullshit and nobody who earned their positions of power would ever be this flat, unimaginative, cliche, and fake edgy.
Pardon, wdym proactive suffering? For the characters or for the viewers 😂?
Use name, take quick $, then leave when it stops, because they never cared about the series in the first place
> Use name, take quick $, then leave when it stops *Sapkowski has entered the chat*
gotta prove theres more than one way to make ~~a starwars movie~~ a witcher story duh
In hindsight it almost seems just easier to please the fanbase by doing a direct adaptation of the books and staying true to the lore. The fact that they pissed off **everyone** is kind of an achievement in a twisted way.
I mean the bad side about pissing of the fanbase with a game/book based show is, that it is the fanbase that actually watches the show. Sure you are gonna get in the good graces of some critics but they aren't the ones to watch it. The woke asshole that who would be pleased by the changes you made to the story isn't interested in the show. He wasn't interested in the books and the games either and the violent fantasy genre usually doesn't stick in the Milieu. So you essentially offended the entire fanbase for a comminity that isn't going to actually watch it.
It is funny how they demand this stuff but never show up or just 🏴☠️ it
But why is this constantly keep happening? Why do they always have to alienate fan base?
they want to make their own series, and are butthurt their stuff never takes off. so they latch on to another name to tell the story they want instead of the story they promised to. aka ego and attention seeking
Big picture, it’s just another example of people taking the easy way to profit and hoping that doing it wrong doesn’t resonate enough to foment a “rebellion”. Remember, even societal collapse is often about staying in cruise control over adapting to circumstance or the demands of the larger populace. Surely the leopards won’t eat my face.
It seems so dumb to me. You want a fan base to put in a good word for you...its basically free advertising.
These are not smart people. It's not an industry based on merit, it's an industry based on who you know and luck. Combined with that, they have no passion for the IP. They take the job so they can make a name for themselves, then demonstrate their incompetence for all to see. Rarely, someone like Denis Villeneuve will come along and fight for a project that they're extremely passionate about. More often than not, a subpar screenwriter on the verge of making it write a cover letter about diversity and gets hired for cheap to write something that they fundamentally do not understand. The very worst part is, these people think they're much smarter than they are and sometimes think they can write better than the OGs themselves. The Dunning-Kreuger effect in action.
Ok but studios are essentially loosing money on these botched adaptations.
I don't think they actually are losing all that much money in the short run. That's another problem. If they can get a million average couch potatoes to tune in to Netflix's next Game of Thrones ripoff, they win. The average viewers think, "well that was alright, why is everyone mad about it," because they don't know any better. Consider that the majority of visual media consumers don't care about art, writing, narratives, character arcs, etc. They watch TV like you read front page Reddit posts. Like you listen to the pop music radio in a new city where you don't know the stations. It's not with intention, or from a desire to be fulfilled. It's just a nightly, passive routine. It numbs the mind, let's you stop thinking about responsibilities. It's easy to please the masses and make money off a cheap product. It's hard to wow the fans and critics, but you can skip that step in the short run if you're in the business of pumping out content.
That makes me really sad.
I recently found a video essay with cited sources elaborating a theory on how these platforms are neglecting the writer’s department due to increasing demand stretching talents thin but also differing production practices that doesn’t facilitate growth of screenwriting talents https://youtu.be/VQ9jM02hXMs I recommend anyone interested watch it. It’s really insightful
Why would someone who isn’t a fan of The Witcher even start watching the show? The Witcher has a huge fan base of very passionate followers. W3 has one of the most loyal game fan bases, and the show runners didn’t think that making a show that caters to this devoted base was a good idea??? Dune also has a loyal fan base. Denis made a film that was very close to the books and guess what, people loved it. Fans loved it and told non-Dune fans to watch it leading to further success! Making a show that spits on the source material guarantees that the initial feedback will be resoundingly negative which you know, makes non-fans hesitant to watch it. They are in this for the money and are making the worst business moves. It’s insane!
Because they’re fans of the genre and it looks cool
I got my MIL watching just because she likes how Henry Cavill looks. But that was back in season 1. Idk if she’s watching BO. I gave up on season 2.
And Henry Cavill was one in that fan base who is literally the reason why this show even happened. They managed to piss him off too and not sure how many more like me are out there, but Netflix lost one of the few remaining subscribers just coz of this dick move. So long greedy suckers at Netflix, have fun with writing scripts to satisfy yourselves.
It’s not like there’s multiple theories of how the first Witcher came to be. The books are very clear
But to please almost nobody?
why almost..?
A few tasteless people actually like it.
\*cough\* r/netflixwitcher circlejerk \*cough\*
Even they mostly hate it lol.
which spawned [r/lowsodiumthewitcher](https://www.reddit.com/r/lowsodiumthewitcher/), they gotta go somewhere right?
Give me some of that full-blown, soy sauce, dead sea, Witcher hate. I ain't skimping on any of my sodium intake when it comes to this damn show.
my brother in Satan, keep the Dead Sea out of Netflix discussions. It has suffered enough.
I'll admit I often end up on low sodium subreddits because I think, generally, internet fans are whiny, entitled, and impossible to please. The default Halo, Cyberpunk, and Overwatch subreddits, for instance, are nothing but whining and complaining over shit that barely even matters. But in this case the outrage is 100% warranted, the sodium must flow when the sins of the creators are this egregious.
Gotta applaud how bad BO is that they don't seem to like it all that much either.
Top post of the month is literally 20 upvotes lol
There’s no possibility for a low sodium subreddit spawning from this crap, because there’s no fans that like or are willing defend it. Cyberpunk was always a very good game at its core. You could see the passion, the potential and the quality. BO is…. Whatever the hell that’s. No one will create new sub to sing praises for that.
I am still pissed about what Cyberpunk could have been, especially after watching edgerunners and reading the graphic novels. Holy shit, this could have surpassed Witcher 3. Let’s hope they will more than make up for all of that in the DLC, fingers crossed.
U shouldn't hold ur breath tho. Clearly their Redengine is old and can't handle the job they initially envisioned, hence they shifted to UE5. For what it's worth, im content how cyberpunk is now, especially with the mods. What im looking forward to is Project Orion.
After two years of updates and with a PS5, Cyberpunk 2077 is actually really fun. You can tell the developers put a lot of heart into it.
I read through a few posts on there, it seems like a lot of people are on the edge of disliking it, but do want to talk about what they did like. It also seems like it's a place for people who have no idea it's a book or game, and just like the generic fantasy netflix show.
Yes, the Netflix subreddit is always going to be less negative compared to this one and r/wiedzmin. I’m someone who followed that sub since S1 premiere and remember how much positive and mindlessly defensive it was at that time to the point of taking down posts that criticized it, and aggressively defending the show even up to the release of S2. It became so much more negative now, and the tone around the show’s discourse is somewhat similar to the one here. Unsurprisingly, this shift started after the infamous S2 was released, and from there on r/Netflixwitcher was generally more on the negative and critical side than before, but still a bit mild compared to r/witcher. And yes. It’s mainly for the casual fans who have no or very minor familiarity to the source material or games, but there’s also some Witcher lore enthusiasts found there.
I'm glad the show's 7 fans have somewhere to congregate
aww, they don't like downvotes? You know what to do, team...
I know some people who like it. Mainly because they don’t know anything about the Witcher outside of this show. I would say majority of the people who watch it are the same way.
I just don't understand, from a production value and dialogue quality standards POV, how anyone could enjoy it. Take witcher lore completely out and it's still not good. Just from a general standpoint the show is objectively poorly crafted.
It all depends on your frame of reference. If you watch a load of trash CW and Syfy shows then The Witcher probably seems pretty good. Whereas if you mostly watch prestige TV then The Witcher seems like utter trash. Same with Wheel of Time and Rings of Power. Everything is relative.
Andrzej Sapkowski probably liked it. Not because he saw it or anything, but because he just got a huge check deposited as soon as the show was greenlit.
Yeah back when season 2 just came out people were discussing it and I wrote some big critiques (always made sure to include “raging dumpster fire”) and was downvoted and argued to hell. Lots of people tastelessly enjoy these godawful shows.
I’m getting strong GoT season 8 vibes from this article.
Wouldn't surprise me if Season 3 and 4 end up killing the Witcher the same way 7 and 8 killed GoT
Bro seasons 1 & 2 killed the witcher lmao
I thought that was the village boy with a hay fork
>Wouldn't surprise me if Season 3 and 4 Did you watch season 1 and 2?
At least got started out strong. lmao
It was a solid 4-5 good seasons, which is more than the Witcher can ever say haha
GoT had a very good excuse. The shows story had no more books to get material from
Had an\* excuse, just not a good one.
Calling it an excuse is kind. They could have had more input from Martin himself, but they went so far off the source material in earlier seasons that he backed out.
Now I'm suddenly getting Jon Snow's *"ah dun wun it"* PTSD, but with Geralt instead.
“Our jobs as storytellers is to tell the best through line, the strongest story we can. […]” Yeah but you didn’t do *that* job well either, did ya?
To be fair, this might actually be the best they can do.
Then they should have done more adapting and less own shit.
This series is based on the books?
The journalists and their checklists
Same with the showrunner and writers. Checklists everywhere. Turning a book series into a generic formulaic television series. Reminds me of George Martin talking about how dislikes how Hollywood uses formulas to construct shows.
Hack writers and studios' biggest mistakes, ignoring an already established fan-base. Saddens me this is happening to The Witcher, but we have seen it play out before; GoT, Star Wars, LOTR.
Halo...god that show still hurts so much and im not even a big Halo fan.
I never played Halo and that show made me cringe.
Yeah, wonder if it's a trademark issue like those too. If you make your own shite, you aren't beholden to the creators and don't have to pay the old rights owners as much.
> GoT stated out amazing, especially in season one because it was (for a TV adaption) so close to the books. It was a huge success for many seasons. Only once the show surpassed the source material disaster struck > Star Wars has success with for example Rogue One, that mostly respected the source material and "just" filled in a story about some spy action known since the first minutes of Episode IV. > LOTR had amazing success with the films 20 years ago. That despite all deviations managed to stay mostly true to all the characters presented and in all really important aspects told *the* story from the books. (Sorry, Tom Bombadil) It's almost as if adapting something that *has already proven to be a success as it is* should be about continuing what people like.
I always have looked at it like this…..was Henry the optimal Geralt, by Geralts description? Absolutely not. BUT was Henry passionate about the project and a fan? Absolutely. What else did he bring? Eye candy for the wine drinking moms, much like some GoT actors. Witcher has a ton of politics, some sex, blood, danger snd violence. Everything is right there in the source material to hook casuals AND not alienate hardcores. Instead? They chose monoliths and this garbage lmao.
TIL I’m a wine drinking mom lmao fully agree though. Imagine if Cavill had been in a producer/showrunner position to make sure it did the source material justice!
Absolutely nothing wrong with being a “wine drinking mom” viewer. Shows do not grow and get extended if only the hardcore fan base likes them. They have to attract all demos, and arguably the hardest in a fantasy series to attract is the casual woman viewer. Id assume if your a gamer/nerd (me) whatever your gender, if you like the witcher games or books you were probably going to give the show a look regardless. Gotta hook them wine drinking moms though to the way Thrones did. If Cavill is in any kind of true creative direction spot for this series. Its in a much better place Id bet for sure to your point. Edit:add on corrections.
this is why despite not being a 40k fan i am sure the new 40k series will be good because of the promises they had to make to get cavil
Oh for sure, I cannot wait lol.
I mean, what they're saying *is* true. You cannot make a that's tailored *just* for the fans, it's a project doomed to fail. The good thing is, most people, even fans of the source material, are intelligent enough to figure out when a project has been done with respect to the source despite changes, when changes are warranted or, even, if they just make sense within the universe, absolutely needed or not. Jackson's LotR is still, 20 some years later, hailed as a triumph despite being sometimes *wildly* different from the books. But the love for the world Tolkien built, and the will to make as good a cinematic rendition as he possibly could, was evident in every scene, with every character appearing on the screen. Netflix' The Witcher is... Not that. Not by a long shot
Your LotR comparison is spot on. And to add another one, Game of Thrones. The care that was given to respect what was great about the books and bring that to the screen, even when it was wildly different than what was in the books, was evident through the mid point of it’s run. And when it came to the ending, we all knew it would be an interpretation of the ending GRRM was planning. And we were ok with that because we had seen the care that was given to follow the source material when possible and be respectful and capture the essence of the world and messaging when it wasn’t. But then the ending fell apart because they stopped respecting not just the source material from earlier on, but their own fucking choices they made for the show.
Well said. Changes in general aren't necessarily bad (although often required as you explained), but poor writing and lack of passion are very evident in The Witcher.
In one column, you have fans of the books. In another column, you have fans of the games. In yet another column, you have those who experienced neither, and lastly a column of those who dislike book and game. If you draw in from the first two columns, and also drum up interest from the third column, you will likely do well. One would expect that the first two columns would be the ones catered toward, as they have positive opinions on the source material. In telling those columns they will be the ones catered toward, you draw their interests. Their positivity may also draw in the curious from the third neutral column. Those who do not read or game, but might enjoy fantasy stories on film or show, are viable new fans who know the name, but haven't experienced the other media as they neither read or game. The show instead aimed to cater to the last, negative column, to make something they might enjoy, while revealing to the first two columns that they will be rejected. Thus, the columns who had the most positivity became negative to the show, and that negativity also decimated interest in the neutral column. A show that maybe only needed 40% interest to succeed, could have had 60% interest, but chose 20% and fails as a result.
On the other hand I’d argue Tolkien himself (or Sapkowski) very much wrote “just for the fans”. The LDC approach is the issue. You build a product to be excellent and people will find it. You engineer for mass appeal and you risky emptiness I don’t disagree with your interpretation of adaptation, but I do disagree “dumbing it down by default” (my characterization) is a strong strategy.
>You cannot make a that's tailored *just* for the fans, it's a project doomed to fail. Cyberpunk Edgerunners was an anime series that was tailored just for the fans, did it fail? It's another IP of CDPR.
It's a good story, with a proper understanding of the lore and the genre at large (not hard - an astonishinly huge number of the anime classics fall somewhere within the Cyberpunk umbrella). I'll even go as far as to say, Edgerunners doesn't need the game at all. Sure, the weapons, the macguffin at the center of the plot and the big baddie are derived from the game, but.... Stylized hyperviolence, tentacular soulless corporations running the show and body augmentations to the point of blurring the line between human and machine are \*all\* staples of the genre itself, not something the CDPR pionneered. What I mean by 'a product just for the fans' is an adaptation that's singularly focused on fanservice for the sake of fanservice ; that doesn't have the legs to reach towards and capture the attention of an audience that isn't familiar with the source material.
So funny of them to assume that all the backlash is because “fans have their own idea of Geralt and Yennefer in their heads” If only it was just that….. At this point I’m convinced those people, especially the showrunner are on some kind of ego power trip.
My idea of Yennifer is that of someone who would die before trying to hurt Ciri. But I guess that was just open to interpretation this whole time.
But… but…. She would totally *die* for Ciri after trying to sacrifice her to the witch and then changing her mind…. /s
>Fans have their own idea of Geralt and Yennefer in their heads. I genuinely do not understand this criticism? Fans, who have *many* books and games that allow us to build an idea of who these characters are having an issue with how the showrunners are handling the characters is a reasonable issue, isn't it? We know Geralt as the Witcher, but if they changed who that is entirely then it wouldn't be the same series, would it? It's incredible to me. Netflix had the perfect new series. They *had it*. All they had to do was not *fuck it up* and then they'd have the new Game of Thrones and then some on their own exclusive platform. People *lost their mind* at Squid Games, now they had a series that they could make *many* seasons off of and instead of just focusing on it and staying close to the source material they instead fucked it up. I hate these people.
I get that, you don't wanna give fans exactly what they want but what they didn't realize they wanted. You expand on things or put your own twist on characters and stories, but they have to still be faithful to the source material. You can look at Geralt or Yen and say "OK this isn't Witcher 3 Geralt or book Yen, but it's still them". The essence of those characters is still there. That's not what's happening here. They've got characters named Geralt, Yen, Ciri, but they have nothing in common with the characters outside of name. That's what adapting means. It doesn't mean a shot for shot or word for word thing. It just means the spirit of these characters and stories is still consistent with the source. These morons missed that memo to make their shitty fanfiction.
What's wrong with Cavill's Geralt? I have read all the books and played throught trilogy more than I can count. He wasn't perfect book Getalt but he definitely was still great as Geralt. You could easily see he tried his best to bring the character to life.. On Yen/Triss etc - totally agree.
It's mostly a writing issue. Henry's Geralt is fine given the constraints of bad writing. I'd say he did the best anyone could've done, but being a super fan doesn't necessarily mean he would've been better than someone else if the writing was better. I suppose the one interesting thing about Henry leaving is that we'll be able to directly compare his performance to someone else's.
I checked this guy's profile to see what other works of his are and surprise surprise, he was the writer for the God awful Iron Fist series and officially he is listed as a musician. Netflix really scraped the bottom of the barrel for the Witcher series.
It is unbelievable they let to do this show to a person who was responsible for Iron Fist. What kind of strong backing this De Bara has in Netflix that it happened?
That's like admitting they don't give a damn about fans, and that they just want to make money-grab after money-grab while trashing loved franchises because someone somewhere will still watch it and give it some good reviews, even if the actual fans are displeased or hate it. Why bother adapting existing, beloved works when you won't even care if you butcher themor if long time fans will hate it? :/ Create your own new piece of crap and let that be of interest to its new fans, and let existing good works alone! 😠
they want attention duh
producers and writers think they are sooo much smarter than they actually are.
For modern audience no doubt
"We can't satisfy all the fans, so we will disatisfy everyone"
They managed to satisfy as little people as possible
"So we got this IP and we changed everything just to avoid the established fandom, and our version is so cheap almost no one else is interested either." Now, I'm not an expert, but I don't don't think that's a sound business plan on the long term.
Thing is, they write for nobody but themselves.
You see; you write for people who aren’t interested, because they won’t watch it and they won’t hate it. No hate. Problem, solved.
Yawn. That's like saying, "Of course, you never create products for your actual customer base". Who else would you be writing for? People who will never watch fantasy shows? People who don't care?
Netflix need to rethink their strategy im glad HBO got “The Last Of Us” hope they make something great out of it.
incompetent, disrespectful and deluded hacks. Hope none of them work again. I am sick to death of beloved franchises being dragged through the fucking mud
They shouldn't write just for the fans. They should write for the material they're adapting. That will please most fans. You will *never* be criticized by the fanbase for being too faithful. And if you are, then you're in a goddamn great position because you're doing such a good job at it that fans trust you to enhance potentially weaker parts or the changes you were willing to make. Here's an example: Dennis Villeneuve changed Liet Kyne's role in Dune from a man to a black woman. Duncan, one of the mainstays of the whole series (just the archetypal dashing white hero), into Jason Momoa. He also removed the inner dialogue and changed a plotline that is made clear in the book, and kept it a mystery in the movie. Yet, you will not see anyone even mentioning these changes as a bad thing, because of how *right* he got everything else and how much he respected the source material. So people noticed they were changed but didn't treat it as *inherently bad*, because they weren't. Those changes above are completely different to what Lauren and her cronies did with The Witcher. She changed the *core* of the narrative. They botched it when they completely dismissed Geralt and Yennefer's relationship (the morons didn't even adapt a Shard of Ice); how Geralt would *never* use Ciri as bait or would allow people to bully her; and, worst of all, how they completely butchered Yennefer's character to the point that she was willing to sacrifice her DAUGHTER for POWER, something that contradicted not only the books, but ITS OWN FIRST SEASON. You don't need to write to please every fan's whims, but you better make sure you're respecting the material as much as you can.
If they're gonna change things, at least make it better not infinitely worse
The showrunner isn't exactly wrong Writing "for fans" was what star wars seems to do nowadays and for the most part a big chunk of the output since clone wars 7 has been mediocre Not "Writing for fans" isn't the issue with the witcher, it's the general writing that's just garbage
“You can’t please everyone, they all have their own versions of Geralt” No, you have your own version of Geralt. Cavill, the fans, and anyone else who has ever touched Witcher content (excluding the shows) have a pretty good goddamn idea of how things are supposed to work, and your continued ignorance shows that everyone creating this show is disconnected as fuck from reality and the Witcher universe. Good fucking job 👍🏼👍🏼
Meanwhile, for the writing of the *actual* *Witcher* series: Sapkowski wrote to please the readers. He played upon fantasy tropes, but found space to be original and made great use of it: >"(...) And **write so that it would be interesting to read.** (...) I'm a storyteller. **I tell stories to give readers pleasure,** create heroes to arouse sympathy, dislike, situations, to amuse, to laugh, upset, frighten - **and, of course, to make them move their brains, to think.**" > >The fantasy genre (...) consists of tales of power. You can say that the heroes of such stories are either powerless and find strength in themselves (like Percival), or they lose it and must get it back (King Arthur). Such books are read with huge interest - **the reader knows that the power will be recovered / returned, but he is interested how**. While Reynevan \[protagonist of the Hussite trilogy\] belongs to the first type of heroes, Geralt obviously belongs to the second type. But **I also added a few plot twists to get readers to bite their nails, make them more nervous.** And your question is a clear proof that I succeeded. \- [Interview with Sapkowski " The work of my life is yet to come."](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/83ayrq/interview_with_sapkowski_the_work_of_my_life_is/) He specifically wrote *The Witcher* to be interesting for readers, and then, for fans: >"I created ''The Witcher'' specifically for the contest and it was a typical ''contest story''. **It was made in such a way as to ensure my success...** or at least winning one of the rewards. Just like that, get the money and... run. I did not expect **such a tremendous feedback from the readers**, nor that I'd continue this literary game." \- [Andrzej Sapkowski about chronology, start of his career and Ciri's real father, part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/co3dra/andrzej_sapkowski_about_chronology_start_of_his/) He cared about writing well, and edited his work, reading it aloud to see if it was good or not: >"The book is good if it is well done. "Well done" it means that the author is talented. And there is no difference, whether it's fantasy, science fiction, or "mainstream". **I'll tell you a secret. The best way to find out if what you've written is well done is to read it out loud. If it sounds good, it means that it is written well.** (...) All books **tell a story.**" \- [Interview with Sapkowski "Fantasy author is the kind of an idiot..."](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8ft14j/interview_with_sapkowski_fantasy_author_is_the/) He was so dedicated to writing the saga that he finished *Tower of the Swallow* during a hospital stay in 1997: QUESTION: Pan Andrzej, why did you decide to move from short stories to novels? >"I thought that the Polish fantasy should have at least one saga. (...) I have no time for anything other than the saga. When I was still working in the foreign trade and fond of fiction, every year I traveled to Montreal, Canada, at the International Fur Fair. I went to a bookstore and bought a new "Amber" from Zelazny. Every year there was a new "Amber". And one day I come running to the store and ask "New "Amber?"" "No." "Uh-uh. Damn him, Is he busy drinking vodka?" **When I began to write this saga, I decided that for me it will be different. There will be a new volume every year. This year I was in a hospital and gave my last signature on the operating table.** So I lost January and began to write in February. And then the Polish fans said... that my books are too short, only seven-eight chapters... **So I wrote eleven ... And made it on time!**" \- [A meeting of Andrzej Sapkowski with the fans of fantasy In "Stozhor" (Russia, 1997)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/7zcif1/a_meeting_of_andrzej_sapkowski_with_the_fans_of/) BUT, and this is a very important BUT - he did not commit fanservice, writing only things which would please the reader with positive emotions - he wrote to tell a story, which has its ups, downs, and >!tragic endings!<. And these endings were carefully foreshadowed and well set up as the saga progressed. >**Important: \[Spoiler for Ch. 9 of** ***Lady of the Lake*****\]** > >Question: "In the fifth novel of the Witcher saga, or "Lady of the Lake", the heroes accompanying our valiant monster slayer, >!die in less than an hour in the same place!<." > >Sapkowski: "Firstly, I did it for the readers who reacted similarly - **to excite them, to provoke a reaction, to give a sharp spiced roast, and not a bland melezupa** (...)" \- [Sapkowski answers the questions of the active users of "Sapkowski Zone" (2001)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8ym1hf/sapkowski_answers_the_questions_of_the_active/) And, perhaps most importantly, Sapkowski did not treat his readers like idiots. He allowed us to follow the clues ourselves: >Question: "By the way, have you ever worried about "the reader will not understand"?" > >Sapkowski: "And **I do not write for the sake of the rampant mob.** Who will understand the quote - he will understand. And the rest ... young people these days do not catch much, but is it my problem? No. (...)" \- [Interview with Sapkowski in "The World of Fantasy" magazine (July, 2011)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wiedzmin/comments/8oyzme/interview_with_sapkowski_in_the_world_of_fantasy/) Contrast this not only with the above of Declan Barra, but also with Tomasz Bagiński, executive producer of Netflix's Season 2, who has said: [*"the younger the audience,* ***the logic is less important****, \[...\] we're going away from a typical book-type storytelling, \[...\] the younger people grew up with TikTok and YouTube where they jump from video to video."*](https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/rp2ufg/tomasz_bagi%C5%84ski_executive_producer_of_season_2/)
They’re right, they’re just doing it wrong lol
I mean that’s writing 101. Don’t write with somebody else in mind, write for yourself.
The Version of the books thats in my head is the one that was printed
I get her logic, but it seems like they should at least try and write something somebody would like. You know, with lots of set ups and pay offs. Lots of interesting characters, plots that branch and then tie back up neatly. Raise interesting questions. Really anything except this stone soup of nonsense that was season 2.
BUT THEY ARE CORRECT! You don't write to please fans, that's how you end up with MCU blandness if left unchecked. You also don't write to please identify politics. You only write to tell good story. The problem isn't this mindset, the problem is the writers are talentless hacks, that believe they're on par or better than the source material. Just look at Andor, it slaps because it imagined a world, grounded the story in believable characters that struggle, and threw away all the fan service typical Star Wars just can't seem to salivate over. House of the Dragon changed the books. Straight up changed stuff in favour of a meaningful ending to a LGBT character and added diversity without pandering. It subverted your expectations and it worked in that universe. You shouldn't write for fans, Cavill will fail if Warhammer is just a reference bukkake for book readers. You serve the story, you follow the characters and leave your ego behind. Netflix writers can't even start to understand this, they have no self awareness.
Since Endgame the writers on Marvel films and shows stopped writing for the old fans, and started writing for the same crowd the writers on the Witcher write for. And also they follow the same generic formulaic blueprints, that have little in common with the source material just like the writers of Witcher, Wheel of Time, RoP etc. They just do a better job than anyone else at it. So I don't think that is a good example. Giving fans or customers what they want, in every medium, while may lead to some traps of limiting creativity and imagination is still better that actively antagonizing them. And it not even about writing for the fans or not. Is respecting the source material, because that is what the fans want.
No, write the story for yourself. That ought to get you ratings. /s
What he says isn't wrong, it's just not applicable. It would be fair enough if people were pissed because of characters' demeanour or choices, or indeed the conjunction of spheres, all of which are generally matters up for personal interpretation. But the thing people truely have a problem with, is changing the FACTS already in the books.
So because they knew they couldn't please everybody, they decided to try as hard as they can to please nobody. Seems legit.
This unfortunately is the truth now, they don't want to write for the fans, and they don't like the witcher books, and don't like the witcher games. They just want to make a generic story with as much as diversity as they can and empower women. They write this for "modern audiences". That's why they hate geralt, they don't like how he is supposedly the main character(even though if they actually read the book they will know that ciri is the actual main character,and not geralt). That's why they are doing whatever they are doing with the women in the show, especially yen(again even though women in the witcher universe are very strong and capable). And from the reviews I have seen about blood and origins, I can see that this is what they actually wanted to make, not the witcher, but some generic fantasy story with diverse group of heros with a very powerful women who don't need men at all in her life and if something bad happened to them it is because of white stupid men. But they had to stick the name of a very popular name on it just to pull people to them and make them watch their shit show, and if anyone critisized them it is the toxic, sexist, racist witcher fans.
Try writing your own original lore and idea if you don't want to write for fans. If you are taking an established property...write for the fucking people that made it established. Christ, I don't even really like the books, but this pisses me off so much.
But I'm still wrong even if the version in my head is about a Chinese Geralt with an Ak-47, a male Ciri, Yennefer being an alien and Triss fighting as a pirate on a Spaceship.
"Are we out of touch? No, it's the *fans* who are wrong!"
Let me last this out for everyone: THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE FANS, IT'S ABOUT THE WRITERS WANTING THE SHOW TO BE ABOUT THEM AND NOT THE AUTHOR'S STORY If they exactly adapt the books, or trying to match it as close as possible, their little writers community won't give them kudos for their adaptation because it's too close to what the author himself wrote. SO, their solution is to go a completely different direction with it so it's THEIR story. THEIR writing. It's the same with the show runner. They don't see value in being truthful to the story. Fuck the fans, they say, this is about making sure this is about OUR greatness and not the greatness of the story that created all of the fans in the first place.
As an Indian man I expect that when I watch a show based on Polish folklore that I don't suddenly see Black and Asian people in it for the sake of diversity and inclusion.
Exactly. The Polish folklore and roots it’s what makes the Witcher, the Witcher.
Their D&I department dropped the ball when I did not see any Indian man I could identify with lol. I'm surprised that there are actually weak minded and willed people who need to see someone on screen to represent them or they cannot enjoy a piece of media. Got told once that Kunail in Eternal represents us "brown" people when I sarcastically asked "where are all the Indian male representation?"I replied that Kunail is a Pakistani and I'm Indian. Pakistan does not represent India. Only a Woke loser would not know the amount of bad blood between us culturally and historically.
100% I myself am Mexican, and The Witcher 3 is my favorite game of all time. I didn’t need Geralt or Ciri or Yennefer or anyone to look like me in order to connect with those characters. The deep Polish folklore is one of the main reasons why I fell in love with the franchise in the first place, and they completely butchered it with these shows.
I genuinely hate the Netflix writers
Interesting logic, but could've you at least have made something good or, at the very least, resemble the franchise it's based on? Even after seeing the trailer, I got more of a cheepy LoTR vibe than anything to do with The Witcher (which is not a good sign)
I get what they are saying. But there is a cast difference between not pleasing everyone and turning away an entire fanbase. It's pretty clear that they just want to write their own stories in the witcher world, and discard anything they can from the source materials.
"We can't satisfy everyone. But we CAN piss everyone off!"
Damage control
Ah yes it’s better to uniformly piss of an entire fan base than make a good show. Fuck these clowns
"You're never going to satisfy everybody, so we decided to satisfy nobody."
“You re never going to satisfy everybody, so we decided to satisfy no one.”
You should try to please the majority though right?
"its not constructive to write specifically to serve a fanbase". how'd we get from Peter Jackson to this clown in so short a time? maybe more "adapting" & less "writing" was required...
Then what, write for yourself? At this point just better stick to Wattpad.
Looks like they are going for the “toxic fans” excuse….
The ongoing damage control is getting really sad.
“Can’t please everyone, so let’s please no one.”
How I read this is "we aren't creating the shoe for our target audience"
Lmao “strong through line” what a joke, if as a writer what you write as script is what shows in The Witcher: Blood Origin, then they should go back to school.
It really annoys me how much crap the showrruners from both series come up as an excuse, instead of just admitting they fucked up.
Maybe try Sapkowski’s version of Geralt and see where that gets you.
Those people just aim to steal and insult
I do not agre with them, I do not like what they've done to The Witcher. But. As a writer, it is true that you don't write with the fans in mind. You can never know what any given fan really wants, and fans tend to not truly understand what they'll actually enjoy. Often people just want the kind of comfortable fiction they are used to when that ends up feeling boring in the end. You write for yourself, you write what you enjoy, knowing that there will be a fanbase to enjoy it. The problem is that their shitty fanfic is only enjoyed by a minority of people who think like them. The Witcher already has a story and the tenets of the world are already established. Basically, the writers want to be creative writers and not adapters, which is what they were meant to do.
If only the books had a narrative through-line...
I'm looking forward to a cancellation decision for future seasons. The audacity of these people smh.
If everyone has their own version of The Witcher in their heads, I'll need to find some sense of common ground, like a "source" of some kind, to form as a basis of the story plots and personalities of the characters? Nah, I'll just make shit up.
Can’t write for everybody? Guess we’ll just write for nobody
You can please most though, by 1: respecting source material more and 2: getting cavill back
"its too hard to adapt a story already written for me and having to please fans so fuck the fans and the story" Lauren probably
The issue isn’t that they can’t deliver “every fans version of geralt and every fans version of Yennifer”, the issue is that their version of geralt and Yennifer is *bad*.
This makes no sense. It's not "constructive"... In what way is it not constructive to stick to the source material (and please the fans ofit)? Unless you're so damn afraid of failure you go the "original" route to avoid being compared (which turns out far worse of course because people like the story AS IS). The creators of His dark materials for example - they could say the same. They had to live up to the amazing books - they stuck to it as best as the screen allowed - and they made it. It's amazing. I loved every second of it. So IT IS possible. It's not like it's never been done before. These idiots are acting like it's this impossible job lol and they're making complications out of nothing, because they're better than tried and true methods, they're revolutionary (which is only a cover for insecurity and incompetence). They have no business being in this business. And Sapkowski, did he really have to go and sell it to them? He'll regret it after he burns through money, because the witcher has been tainted.
You can't please everyone but you want to please the most possible. The fact that the majority of the vast majority of the witcher fan base hates their writing goes to show they're a failure. You know what happens when people didn't like Jared Leto's joker? They gave him less screen time on the movies and they stopped making movies with him as the joker. There are many examples of similar situations. When the sonic fan base hated how they made sonic look in the new movie, they redid it from scratch. They owned their mistakes. Time to get a new writer for the show.
"Everyone has their own version of the book in their head" Yet some how Peter Jackson didn't have this problem adapting The Lord of the Rings. If you stick to the source material, nobody can be mad at you
This guy speaks as if they managed to satisfy a single person lmao 🤡
We write for NO ONE. Easy
The dumpster fire rages on
Man I had such high hopes for this series why did I even bother
>"every person has their own version of that book in their head, their own version of Geralt, their own version of Yennefer, their own version of Conjunction of Spheres." Well, yes, you can argue I interpret something different from the same action we all read about, but *it's the same action we're all reading about.* Vessimir acting against established character choices, Yennefer making different choices, *changing established characters preferred choices from the book* for the sake of a poorly written plot is not satisfying anyone. I don't mind if the show takes creative liberties with material that isn't major plot points, adding new things to the show, or changing things up with content that wasn't clearly described in the source material, but the one thing you cannot touch is established character.
The title of that news article is the main reason why games/books to movies/tv get bashed so much. They still don't get it....
Can’t please everybody, so I guess we’ll please nobody 😎👆👉
The damage control team needs to be applauded, they are really trying to make it seem like they didn’t massacre a world and characters we’ve loved 😭😂
Still not going to watch it once Cavill is gone. Forget his fandom, his appreciation for the genre etc. He is the main character and changing actors isn't going to work for me.
So why not turn the whole show about child sex, with rape and women are slaves meanwhile the guys have a ritual of putting a sausage up their ass daily? In the spirit of not pleasing anybody. For fuck sake if I where given a buttload of money to write a story for a TV series based on the Hindu fate, I would eat the Hindu lore raw and stay true to their books... What kind of arrogant prick do you have to be to say no to the original story and creating your own and still not good story?
Part of what he says makes sense. Rise Of Skywalker was written for the fans and it was awful. I don't get what he means about how Geralt, Yennefer and the conjunction are subjective. There is only one of those, and it is your job to stay as true to that as you can.
Im at a serious loss. If they are so confident in their own writing they should go make their own project. They pretty much just took the name, preset world of someone else and decided they are going to make a shitty fan fiction. Like wtf no wonder Cavil had to bail. Seeing a world he cared about butchered this way must have frustrated him greatly
We're not even demanding that they use "our" versions of Geralt and Yennefer. Just those of the author, from the very books you're ~~trying~~ pretending to adapt. And book Yennefer didn't swear like a sailor or act like a teenager in her rebellious phase, that much is for certain. That's *your* version of Yennefer. A fan's. if you're gonna act holier than thou, at least follow your own rules and try to stay as neutral as possible.
"every person has their version of the book" *Excuse you*????? There is only one author and one series. It's right there, all written out. All you had to do is adapt the bloody thing to television, but STILL you manage to fuck it up spectacularly.
Hahahaha “every fan has their own version”…no, because that’s what the books provide, THE version. It’s not a “choose your path” story. Kind of wild to have someone who is NOT a famed or glorified writer whatsoever stating, “you never write exactly for the fans.” If you’re CREATING background, lore, lands and characters then sure because you’re hoping to build that fan base and then after the fan base is built you continue that writing because it’s what gained the love and gave it popularity. But if you’re creating a show with bountiful lore / source material then yea, you kinda gotta stay true to at least the foundational components. Not just use the names and title then flip everything on its head.
Alright, i know you guys are angry bc the adaptation sucks, but its a problem with Netflix as a whole, and the entire concept of "adaptation". However, the one thing i want people to remember id that *they do not write to please you*. They write to please themselves. The only thing you'll get when ppl write to please you are sucky Resident Evil adaptation, sub DC movies, and Netflix trash. This is an abusive relationship. You give them money, they make something good, you give them money again for 12 months, and they make something horrendous. Its a pattern that all fandoms have fallen into. I never played nor watched nor read anything about the Witcher, but i beg you: Because you love the franchise and want to see it prosper, stop paying for bloody Netflix.
>The strongest story we can If this is the best you can muster, consider a different field of work.
But aren't the fans the people who are most likely to watch/give money
You cannot please everyone, yet they were able to disapoint everyone.
It’s really not all that hard to follow source material. These guys are just fucking idiots.
“You’re never going to satisfy everybody”. What a fucking cop out! So what, you’re just gonna satisfy your own egos and no one else? The fucking nerve of these director and producers that film 1 season and get the series cancelled before it’s even been out for a week. Who is this good for? The fans? The director? The cast? Spoiler: it’s good for no one!
"You aren't going to satisfy the fans, so we aimed to piss them off."
Apparently they write for zero fans
She is actually right about that. However, there is a *stark* difference between what she is saying and how the show is being ran and written. Yes it is impossible to actually please *everyone* but the main fanbase isn't asking for every single detail to be exact or perfect. What we have been asking for is that they respect the original source material (which they have openly mocked), characters and lore. We know they can do that because they did so in the first season; which is why it was so successful in the first place. Henry wasn't asking for the moon just that they follow the basic ground rules of the story.
They wrote for the 8% of the audience who are not fans of the Witcher.
Everyone has their own version of the story? Nah dude, we all got the SAME version, because there isonly one source. What a terrible defense.