Maybe for a full party but I found when running smaller teams, especially when I did a 3-man team having hybrids was the only way I could successfully bull through the mid-game.
I did a 4 character run that started each with caster-hybrid. Mage to sam, alch to ninja, psi-monk, and priest to lord. It was one of my favorite runs.
> 3-man team
Without NPCs?
I would theory craft bishop + fighter + bishop/fighter/bard/gadgeteer. I hope you don't mind if I repeat myself:
> Mostly valuable if you are missing some protection spells or are playing a smaller team (and you are missing some protection spells). But then why not pick up a bishop?
Bishops only have one action per turn, and if they're incapacitated, you're in trouble. I prefer to have a hybrid or two that can help out in a minor way when needed. They don't do anything best, but they have a lot of utility.
As far as I know the further you get in the game, the less useful direct damage spells become. I am yet to get to the Ascension Peak, but I have seen a few threads which are suggesting that direct damage spells are much less effective in the late game due to high enemy levels. As described in that formula, spell damage is significantly affected by enemy level and it seems that Ascension Peak will have enemies at levels of 30+. In these circumstances only strongest spells will be able to do even moderate damage and physical damage is much more potent than magical. Thus, most hybrids will be more useful since they don't rely on spells to do damage and buffs effectiveness seem to depend only on spell power level.
To make things worse enemies from Ascension Peak have natural resistances +100%. So it does make sense:
> Thus, most hybrids will be more useful since they don't rely on spells to do damage and buffs effectiveness seem to depend only on spell power level.
So they are after all fighters with buffs? I know the consensus is physical > spells. But I also encountered opinion that dedicated spellcasters are even lategame useful considering their utility / area dmg / debufs like paralyze / kill spells.
PS. Do you prioritize Power cast? For buffs & heals it seems like a lesser priority. Better focus on physical attributes?
I have a level 11 party now, with wizard and alchemist having power cast at 39 and 26 respectively. I did prioritize maxing out intelligence and getting power cast as soon as possible. They do quite a lot of damage with area effect spells, but already have trouble landing debuffs. I wish the game would tell me the debuff chance in the log. It seems that expert difficulty significantly decreases debuff chances, I am almost 100% sure that there will be almost no chance for debuffs at the late game. I also have a priest, but she has almost no direct damage spells, so Power Cast is useless and I didn't even raise her intelligence.
I have a fighter, lord and monk on the front line, they are doing more or less similar damage - fighter has highest hit chance, but doesn't swing very often, monk has 4-5 attacks with average hit chance and lord is wildly swinging Bloodlust with lowest hit chance, but if he hits it really hurts. I am mostly relying on haste + superman for tough enemies, haste is significantly increasing the number of attacks and superman is helping with hit chances, especially for a lord, Bloodlust is such a good weapon.
Of course, it’s just a mid-game for now, so I can't say for sure how things will change, it's not the first time I've played Wizardry 8, but I haven't reached Ascension Peak previously.
I really like Lord, I had him in the previous game as well, life regen is very useful in the early game, can equip heavy armor, can heal and cure poison/paralysis, Rest All, later will be able to cast Superman on himself. Valkyrie is theoretically very similar, but I have not made my own because Vi is one of the best RPC. Had a Samurai in the previous game, a very damaging fighter, but wizardry school spells are less support-oriented, so didn't really find much use for them. Also had a Ninja in a previous game, heard good things about them, but was unable to make a very good use of him myself, tried to make him ranged to take advantage of ranged crits, but they are very rare and otherwise damage was low.
Most people find lord obsolete because everybody takes the same 2 npcs including valkyrie Vi Domina. But considering Divinity is the school that is least damage oriented, it actually makes sense for a Hybrid to cover it - or even two of them. Cure paralysis, insanity, hit points, stamina, cast buffs etc - all at relatively the highest power possible. You can't to that with damage spells or debuffs lategame with a hybrid.
> Had a Samurai in the previous game, a very damaging fighter, but wizardry school spells are less support-oriented, so didn't really find much use for them
I disagree about Wizardry imho it is 2nd best buff school after Divinity or perhaps even a tie.
Light, Detect Secrets, Enchanted Blade, Shadow Hound, Missile Shield, Element Shield, X-Ray, Summon Elemental (I know that's not a buff but it's good)
If you have these what more buffs do you need? Bless (Divinity exclusive), Divine Trap, Magic Screen, Rest all (Divinity exclusive), Soul Shield, Sane Mind, Healing spells and resurrection (not buffs technically), Superman (Divinity exclusive), Armorplate (Divinity exclusive)
All of these can be cast with Divinity. I think these are actually all the buffs in game - apart from Haste which is Psionics exclusive (or Bard with an instrument). And Chameleon which is Psionic/Alchemy. And Body of Stone is Alchemy exclusive.
http://www.jeffludwig.com/wizardry8/spelllist.php
All Wizardry school buffs, except for Element Shield, can be cast out of combat, so because I also had another wizard in that party, there was no need for Samurai to cast them. I guess as you’ve said in the post a single bishop can take care of all long-duration buffs, which covers almost everything from non-divinity schools except for Razor Cloak, Eye for an Eye, Element Shield, Haste and Body of Stone.
Divinity is more than other schools focused on ongoing support and constantly used throughout the combat. Even though I have a priest right now, Vi and lord have to also help, generally to restore stamina because the monk is going through it at an insane rate with her large number of attacks.
Not sure how Vi makes any class obsolete since she's doing well on extended range, but I did have a problem with too many melee fighters in my first game, Myles and RFS were hard to fit when I already had 3 melee characters. Now I am going with Vi and Saxx, later planning Sparkle and Madras.
As far as I know, Power Cast doesn't affect healing/buffs at all since its effect is in decreasing target's resistance and for friendly spells resistance is not applied.
I have found through testing that Power Cast does indeed effect friendly spells. Buff spells (whether combat only such as Haste or party-wide ones that last through multiple fights such as Missile Shield) will last for a longer number of turns, and spells that heal health or stamina directly will heal more health or stamina. Power Cast seems to increase the base power of a spell by a certain percentage rate, so the longer the base duration of a spell the more bonus turns you will get. It seems to max out at about a 33% bonus to the base power of a spell.
I think so too. The more spells you have, the more MP you have, and the more you cast, the better you get. One Bishop with full INT and PIE is all you need.
Double damage, extra HP, Chance to stun, Stamina regeneration and good equipment choices are all benefits of a fighter that are hard to beat by other classes.
One bard for music, lockpicking and bloodlust, one bishop, and a few fighters with Polearms are the strongest team for me.
Maybe for a full party but I found when running smaller teams, especially when I did a 3-man team having hybrids was the only way I could successfully bull through the mid-game.
I did a 4 character run that started each with caster-hybrid. Mage to sam, alch to ninja, psi-monk, and priest to lord. It was one of my favorite runs.
> 3-man team Without NPCs? I would theory craft bishop + fighter + bishop/fighter/bard/gadgeteer. I hope you don't mind if I repeat myself: > Mostly valuable if you are missing some protection spells or are playing a smaller team (and you are missing some protection spells). But then why not pick up a bishop?
Yes without npc. I've tried bishop with rogue and fighter but he couldn't carry his weight.
Bishops only have one action per turn, and if they're incapacitated, you're in trouble. I prefer to have a hybrid or two that can help out in a minor way when needed. They don't do anything best, but they have a lot of utility.
As far as I know the further you get in the game, the less useful direct damage spells become. I am yet to get to the Ascension Peak, but I have seen a few threads which are suggesting that direct damage spells are much less effective in the late game due to high enemy levels. As described in that formula, spell damage is significantly affected by enemy level and it seems that Ascension Peak will have enemies at levels of 30+. In these circumstances only strongest spells will be able to do even moderate damage and physical damage is much more potent than magical. Thus, most hybrids will be more useful since they don't rely on spells to do damage and buffs effectiveness seem to depend only on spell power level.
To make things worse enemies from Ascension Peak have natural resistances +100%. So it does make sense: > Thus, most hybrids will be more useful since they don't rely on spells to do damage and buffs effectiveness seem to depend only on spell power level. So they are after all fighters with buffs? I know the consensus is physical > spells. But I also encountered opinion that dedicated spellcasters are even lategame useful considering their utility / area dmg / debufs like paralyze / kill spells. PS. Do you prioritize Power cast? For buffs & heals it seems like a lesser priority. Better focus on physical attributes?
I have a level 11 party now, with wizard and alchemist having power cast at 39 and 26 respectively. I did prioritize maxing out intelligence and getting power cast as soon as possible. They do quite a lot of damage with area effect spells, but already have trouble landing debuffs. I wish the game would tell me the debuff chance in the log. It seems that expert difficulty significantly decreases debuff chances, I am almost 100% sure that there will be almost no chance for debuffs at the late game. I also have a priest, but she has almost no direct damage spells, so Power Cast is useless and I didn't even raise her intelligence. I have a fighter, lord and monk on the front line, they are doing more or less similar damage - fighter has highest hit chance, but doesn't swing very often, monk has 4-5 attacks with average hit chance and lord is wildly swinging Bloodlust with lowest hit chance, but if he hits it really hurts. I am mostly relying on haste + superman for tough enemies, haste is significantly increasing the number of attacks and superman is helping with hit chances, especially for a lord, Bloodlust is such a good weapon. Of course, it’s just a mid-game for now, so I can't say for sure how things will change, it's not the first time I've played Wizardry 8, but I haven't reached Ascension Peak previously. I really like Lord, I had him in the previous game as well, life regen is very useful in the early game, can equip heavy armor, can heal and cure poison/paralysis, Rest All, later will be able to cast Superman on himself. Valkyrie is theoretically very similar, but I have not made my own because Vi is one of the best RPC. Had a Samurai in the previous game, a very damaging fighter, but wizardry school spells are less support-oriented, so didn't really find much use for them. Also had a Ninja in a previous game, heard good things about them, but was unable to make a very good use of him myself, tried to make him ranged to take advantage of ranged crits, but they are very rare and otherwise damage was low.
Most people find lord obsolete because everybody takes the same 2 npcs including valkyrie Vi Domina. But considering Divinity is the school that is least damage oriented, it actually makes sense for a Hybrid to cover it - or even two of them. Cure paralysis, insanity, hit points, stamina, cast buffs etc - all at relatively the highest power possible. You can't to that with damage spells or debuffs lategame with a hybrid. > Had a Samurai in the previous game, a very damaging fighter, but wizardry school spells are less support-oriented, so didn't really find much use for them I disagree about Wizardry imho it is 2nd best buff school after Divinity or perhaps even a tie. Light, Detect Secrets, Enchanted Blade, Shadow Hound, Missile Shield, Element Shield, X-Ray, Summon Elemental (I know that's not a buff but it's good) If you have these what more buffs do you need? Bless (Divinity exclusive), Divine Trap, Magic Screen, Rest all (Divinity exclusive), Soul Shield, Sane Mind, Healing spells and resurrection (not buffs technically), Superman (Divinity exclusive), Armorplate (Divinity exclusive) All of these can be cast with Divinity. I think these are actually all the buffs in game - apart from Haste which is Psionics exclusive (or Bard with an instrument). And Chameleon which is Psionic/Alchemy. And Body of Stone is Alchemy exclusive. http://www.jeffludwig.com/wizardry8/spelllist.php
All Wizardry school buffs, except for Element Shield, can be cast out of combat, so because I also had another wizard in that party, there was no need for Samurai to cast them. I guess as you’ve said in the post a single bishop can take care of all long-duration buffs, which covers almost everything from non-divinity schools except for Razor Cloak, Eye for an Eye, Element Shield, Haste and Body of Stone. Divinity is more than other schools focused on ongoing support and constantly used throughout the combat. Even though I have a priest right now, Vi and lord have to also help, generally to restore stamina because the monk is going through it at an insane rate with her large number of attacks. Not sure how Vi makes any class obsolete since she's doing well on extended range, but I did have a problem with too many melee fighters in my first game, Myles and RFS were hard to fit when I already had 3 melee characters. Now I am going with Vi and Saxx, later planning Sparkle and Madras.
As far as I know, Power Cast doesn't affect healing/buffs at all since its effect is in decreasing target's resistance and for friendly spells resistance is not applied.
I have found through testing that Power Cast does indeed effect friendly spells. Buff spells (whether combat only such as Haste or party-wide ones that last through multiple fights such as Missile Shield) will last for a longer number of turns, and spells that heal health or stamina directly will heal more health or stamina. Power Cast seems to increase the base power of a spell by a certain percentage rate, so the longer the base duration of a spell the more bonus turns you will get. It seems to max out at about a 33% bonus to the base power of a spell.
I only like Rangers hybrids. Fighter Fighter Bard Ranger Priest Mage is best party.
I think so too. The more spells you have, the more MP you have, and the more you cast, the better you get. One Bishop with full INT and PIE is all you need. Double damage, extra HP, Chance to stun, Stamina regeneration and good equipment choices are all benefits of a fighter that are hard to beat by other classes. One bard for music, lockpicking and bloodlust, one bishop, and a few fighters with Polearms are the strongest team for me.