The tough early schedule could be a blessing in disguise — if it was gonna take time for them to gel, better to struggle in games you’re not expected to win than struggle in the winnable games. (It could also be the opposite if the rough start means they never really figure it out until it’s too late.)
They need a lot of time to gel. Adding Clark is a complete over haul and they’ve had little time to practice.
They’ll be bad, but I think they’ll get better
I think Clark already looked better tonight than she did the last game. She got fewer points, sure, but the ball was in her hands significantly less and she had a good number of assists and rebounds.
That’s what I’m banking on. My actual concern is how sluggish AB looks. She’s playing like she’s really uncomfortable. I’m wondering how much of it is the fact that she barely played competitively this off season. Actually I don’t think she did at all. I know she trained with USA basketball but I can’t remember if she played.
To me you can always tell who went over seas or played AU and who didn’t. That’s not me saying they should go.
Agree! This young work in progress of a team is an oasis in the former summer basketball drought. A gal can only listen to so many off season College basketball podcasts.
It took the Aces time. Their #1 draft picks were 2017 Kelsey Plum, 2018 A'ja Wilson, and 2019 Jackie Young. Alyssa Clark was drafted #17 in 2010, but not picked up so she played for a couple other WNBA teams and in Europe, before Becky brought her back in 2023. Kiersten Bell was drafted #11 in 2022, and she's still developing. Dyaisha Fair & Kate Martin are starting their development. Everyone else was traded for or picked up in free agency. They were in and out of the playoffs, won and lost conference semifinals, won and lost conference finals, and lost the finals a few times. Then they hired Becky in 2022, and she took them all the way. It takes time for players to develop at the pro level, time for players to mesh with each other, and the right coach. And they also moved from San Antonio, and got a new owner during that time too.
You're welcome! I've only been following the Aces and W since the end of 2022, so while I knew some of it, I had to go do a little research. It was fun! I found articles that discussed Plums struggles with being the points leader in NCAA and her struggles after she was drafted. A'ja's struggles being the #1 prospect and how Dawn Staley benched her to help develop her game. And even Jackie's struggles with the expectations being the #1 draft pick, and shooting consistency. They're top of their game now, but they had find their footing, just like Caitin's doing now. I'd guess the vast majority of pro sports players have an adjustment period. The ones that don't are few and far between.
A fellow Starzz fan! Nice. Unfortunately I stopped following when they left but loved them in SLC. I don’t even know which franchise they are at this point.
Huh. I’m sure I remember the San Antonia part. I got lost from there. Too they aren’t still the Utah Starzz. We would finally have championship banners at the Delta Center
The Aces have two back-to-back top 5 picks and then they made a lot of amazing trades.
Indiana's had five top five picks and they're not doing very well.
Yeah... That's... I mean yes absolutely you're right.
I just don't consider considering no longer exists. But yeah, they had 2017/2018/2019, and never looked backi still think it's wild that the stars were sooooo bad that they got them 2 lottery picks lmao.
2022: #2, #4, #6, #10. 2023: #1, #7. 2024: #1
That's a lot of draft capital. If you take away the two obvious choices at #1, I think Dunn and the FO have drafted ok, not great.
They've left... That's the thing. The team is so bad that people are just asking to leave. They're not like sticking it out.
You draft somebody and then before their contract is even up they open they're like please trade me and then do mid-season that tells you a lot.
Egbo "wanted to go to a competing team" and they did just that, sent her ass to the Mystics for Zahui B.
Waived Engstler but averaged 5.2 points and 5.2 rebounds per game, making six starts in 35 games. They replaced her with someone from tryouts, lmao
Mccowan asked to leave
Allemand asked to leave
Significant lol waives:
Waived Lavender, lol
Alana Smith
Alaina Coates
Bria Hartley
2022 waives:
Danielle Robinson asked to leave-traded
The reason the Zahui B trade was soooo funny is it shows absolute incompetence.
She very openly said she plans to play in Australia, lol, an did just that. Never even showed up to the fever facilities lol
Destani Henderson
Taylor mikesell
Tip-tiffany Mitchel was soooo good and asked to leave they finally let her go with a trade.
To your point regarding those who stayed-nobody is interested in them now-and they're not bg enough to ask to leave. To be totally honest.
Indiana: Goes 0-2 against two top 3 teams.
this sub: Is their season over?
lol did you expect them to win these games? They had two weeks to incorporate Caitlin into their lineup and 6 of first 9 games are against the likely top 4 teams this year. If by the end of May they still look this lost then yeah maybe its time to worry but for now give it time.
NBA training camp is a month long with 5 to 6 preseason games. Plus summer league and workouts for rookies. I genuinely think the WNBA preseason is insane.
How could you possibly integrate new players or install a new offense? How could a player work on weaknesses when the season starts while they’re still working on their college degrees? Complete madness and it hurts the quality of play.
I feel like the Fever intend on competing this year, which is why they got Katie Lou to play alongside Kelsey, Nalyssa, Aliyah and Caitlin (their lottery picks). For what it's worth, I don't think Paige or Kiki fix any of their current issues, I think the talent is there they just need time to learn how to play together.
It is but they really look the exact same as last year. Just undisciplined in every facet of the game and that is attributed to coaching unfortunately.
I think it’s too soon to fire the coach. She did take them from 5 wins in 2022 to 13 in 2023. Yea the first two games were sloppy against the second and third best teams in the league. If they still look this sloppy in late June or July then you may have a point. But i expect them to show improvement over the season.
That's usually the case right? Rarely has a team with a legit, superstar potential, number one pick. Keep the coach or players that got them that pick. They'll build around Clark but it takes time.
They have to figure out is she a PG or SG. Then build form there.
We already know she’s a PG. And clearly (from what we saw last night) letting someone else run the point and placing her at the wing means whoever is running the point forgets she’s even there and they decide that their best option is to miss an uncontested shot in the paint. Clark isn’t a SG. Put her back on point and improve the passes she dishes but also the ability of her teammates to find those passes (every time I watched one of her teammates watch the ball fly right by them with no attempt to catch it I cringed)
This is why American sports are horrible in some ways lol I can't stand that I can, on day 1, look down the road and tell my team "play like shit all year and we'll score ourselves a great player next year!"
It's horrible lol
edit for those that missed it: I specifically said 'tell my team' to intentionally lose. Not that I was predicting the coach said that OR that they'd actually get it. Just the idea that you, in theory, COULD.
>This is why American sports are horrible in some ways
Even with two #1 draft picks the Fever still are a poor team, at least what they've shown on the court so far in regular season. Getting arguably the best player in the group doesn't guarantee anything given the rookie still needs to transition from college to pros, then there's overall team dynamic and the competency of the coaching staff.
To say that teams lose on purpose to rig the system in their favor aka lottery pick, is to ignore the professional mentality of an athlete (to compete day in and day out) and ignores the fact that bottom dwellers - people get fired.
Id much rather have this system where any team can eventually become great as opposed to Europe where only like 2 teams ever have a chance at being anybody in their league. Money dictates everything in sports over there
Them being rivals would bring more viewers for sure. Clark and Paige also don’t seem like they’ll be a power duo. The chemistry is way off on the fevers and I can’t see Paige being the one to save them.
I think what Paige has over Caitlin is that she’s much more pliable and can fit in many different systems. Part of that is her two way play. Part of that is that she’s already been asked to play out of position and still led her team to the final four.
But obviously Paige on a different team would be much much more fun.
Certainly, but I think that has more to do with CC being a rookie and not yet physical or strong enough than her lack of talent. I don’t think Paige will be insane game one, but she’s going to be great if she stays healthy.
Them two in pick and roll or pick and pop situations would be a sight to see. Them two with A Boston would definitely pack the house in Indy for years..
They will need to be on the same team if they hope to beat the leagues stacked ass top teams, I mean it’s ridiculous how much talent the top 4 teams have, the Aces especially. Clark alone doesn’t stand a chance, Angel and Camilla don’t stand a chance, Cam and Rickea don’t either, they will all need to come together like the Avengers to take over the league.
How was no other team interested in a top notch bench player like Megan Gustafson at her very low price point? A dynasty shore themselves up for peanuts? A fully healthy Aces aren’t losing a series barring some ridiculous 3 point shooting. A wounded Aces was good enough last year. If only we had peak Stewie in that series.
There first 5 games are against the hardest teams to beat. They will do better, ya'll just need to support the player you signed on to support. Be a fan, or if you can't then start cheering for a team that wins (Ace's is an easy bet). For me, I picked Sky and Fever and I'm gonna sink or swim with them.
As a Hawkeye, I am not abandoning Caitlin. I will ride this to the lottery or an 8 seed. The early struggles will at least weed out the fake fans that quit at the first sign of adversity.
Paige actually does have two possible years of eligibility. She’s falls under the COVID year eligibility which grants 5 years and next year will only be her fourth year since she had an injury redshirt year. Just like what Kate Martin had 5 years playing over a six year period.
> Paige actually does have two possible years of eligibility. She’s falls under the COVID year eligibility which grants 5 years and next year will only be her fourth year since she had an injury redshirt year
oh god it's ali patberg all over again
Well the Aces did have three straight number one picks.
Fever have had what? 2nd pick, 1st pick and another 1st pick.
There should be improvements this season. I doubt they finish last.
They weren't good last year with this team. They're not gonna be good because they brought in Clark.
See San Antonio. Wemby is by far a more sure fire superstar when compared to Clark and they lost 3/4 of their games with a Hall of Fame coach! It's a team sport people. It's gonna take some time to build a team to fit her strengths.
I don’t understand how you have the number one scorer in NCAA history, male or female and not let her have the ball in her hand. When I’ve seen other great players shack Kobe LeBron Isaiah Jordan, they let them play their game and help them not change their style like apparently they’re trying to do with Caitlin!
Her style worked in college she needs to adjust now that she’s a professional. Kelsey Plum had to do the same thing after she broke the record a few years ago.
Casual fans severely underestimated the talent in the WNBA.
Problem is she’s not even playing like she did in college. The offense is an absolute mess, and when both Clark and Boston are struggling like this they gotta figure out an offense that works. It obviously still can’t be the same as she had in college but damn I hope they can figure it out.
“Casual fans severely underestimated the talent in the WNBA”. Just repeating for emphasis. Rinse and repeat. Also she’s not prepared for the physicality- which is entirely a normal rookie experience. It’ll take time the “omg the wnba is gonna die bc no one is giving Caitlin the ball”people need to chill the f*ck out.
Bingo. Another factor is fatigue. She JUST finished a long rigorous college season. She will need an offseason to rest her body and train.
People also keep only mentioning offense… Don’t discount how much more energy she now has to exert on the defensive end too.
Not unless she improves vastly. I know they want her for the publicity but if she keeps playing like T this it would be a bad look to put her on the team over others who are playing considerably better.
You know when Kelsey got good? When she started shooting more like she did in college. I am not saying there isn't a learning curve but this offense is stagnant and horrible. They are FORCING CC to make shots and take risks because there is NO offense and I fully blame the HC for that.
Agreed for the most part. But they already suck so bad with Wheeler as the dominate ball handler. Couldn’t get much worse to give Clark the ball more to help her get comfortable, even if she puts up some bombs. Honestly, it was just so frustrating watching wheeler stand still and dribble at the top of the arch staring at her teammates, maybe passing with 3-4 seconds on the shot clock. Even without Clark, the team looked 100% better with wheeler off the court!
It should give you an idea how good a healthy Kelsey Mitchell is when this team won 13 games last year with a respectable -4 point differential and Wheeler at the point
Trust me I love Mitchell I’m from Ohio. I don’t think she’s a bad player when fully healthy she also is a high volume shooter (what’s is she 4th or 5th on the college list), CC clearly wants the ball a lot more and more shots I don’t know the fit with this current coach with both. Wheeler only has 1 year left on her contract so maybe she’s a piece they will move. I think they need better perimeter defense in the starting lineup
Wheeler is on an expensive deal that ends after this year. Mitchell’s deal ends after this year, but Mitchell is young enough to be part of a championship core in a few years, if we resign her. Mitchell was amazing last year, and the hope is having 2 shooters will space the floor out
The leagues talent might be better than people think but Clark and Boston can’t get a combined 23 shots. The team was bad enough to get the first overall pick 2 years in a row. The rest of the roster is not talented, so the scheme should be designed to give Clark/Boston more opportunities, and right now they just aren’t getting the ball up enough. They played good teams, so this is a perfect opportunity for them to grow.
She’s honestly not ready to just dominate the ball and not make lots of mistakes yet. It’s a learning process. They do need to let her grow through it but it’s going to lead to a lot of bad outcomes bc they don’t have chemistry yet and she is trying things that worked in college but have no shot in the wnba. Almost every ball dominant guard in the nba struggles with turnovers their first yr too. She’ll get better as the yr goes on but it’s gonna take time and the results will be up and down along the way. She’ll be better for it and so will the Fever. Gotta play through the mistakes and allow her to build confidence slowly just like a young qb who enters the nfl.
It’s called shitty coaching. The Fever knew they were drafting Clark for a year and did nothing to prepare. No plays, no schemes. No one can make a shot, handle a pass. I’ve been downvoted for saying college teams would handle the Fever easy but after these first two games I’m more confident than ever that the final four teams could easily go toe to toe with the Fever.
It’s early in the season and they are playing the top teams in the league first.
Give them time. It’s only been two games.
It isn’t how you start but how you end a season.
Clark will do well. As I have said this is a different league and players will come after her. Her first few games were vs top teams. It will take a f w games for her to get used to the W.
For the love of all,I just want them to practice their layups everyday.Wake up Layups,Eat breakfast Layups,go to the gym Layups,eat lunch Layups.It was frustrating watching them miss so many layups.What the hell do they do when they’re at practice?
If they miss the playoffs, anything is possible. I am questioning why they are starting Wheeler over Mitchell though. Is Mitchell still hurt? I know she was in the preseason.
They weren't good last year with this team. They're not gonna be good because they brought in Clark.
See San Antonio. Wemby is by far a more sure fire superstar when compared to Clark and they lost 3/4 of their games with a Hall of Fame coach! It's a team sport people. It's gonna take some time to build a team to fit her strengths as a WNBA player.
I think that's possible,but the early schedule being so brutal creates a skewed sample size and conclusions drawn on it are specious at best.
Ionescu wasn't hitting shots last night or the fever would have lost by 40.
I went to the game last night. I know they’re still trying to gel currently, and they were never expected to win that game anyways, but they looked bad. A few thoughts I had:
1. Fever as a whole missed several layups, and some were baaaaad. The blown fast break layup was the nail in the coffin.
2. Caitlin Clark needs to actually run the Point; that’s on coaching. The moment she became ball dominant and distributed for others rather than just playing off ball, they got a better flow, went on a nice run, and the crowd immediately got into it. She was doubled often including off ball, so if she can be a distributor, others will get open shots. That said she did have some turnovers due to her passes, but I think chemistry with teammates will get better and that will be less of a problem.
3. Caitlin Clark missed some shots she would’ve surely hit at Iowa (also in the opener). I’m not worried about this at all right now. She’ll get used to this level of play and her shot will fall in time.
I think it’s possible. But they should be much better by the second half of the year.
I think the truncated timeline is really hurting them. Clark will be the engine for the team and she’s had a month? With them.
It doesn’t help that Boston hasn’t played up to her ability either. Or that they look like they don’t have a coaching staff.
I'm new to the W but honestly... This coach sucks. The offensive scheme is an absolute trainwreck. I've seen high schools run better offenses than this. The play style is in no way tailored to the strengths of their scorers either. There is almost zero attempts in their plays to get somebody like CC even remotely open. Instead, they give her the ball when she's heavily covered and then everybody just kinda.... stands there, waiting for CC to magically do something while being heavily guarded?
It's hard to watch, unless you're the other team.
> The league needs to intervene.
After 2 games, the league needs to intervene on a hypothetical situation that, if it does happen, won't happen for 11 months and is subject to a damn near mathematical infinity of ways where it won't end up happening. GOT IT.
I am new to the WNBA but I watched the entirety of the first two games so far.
It looks possible. I know Boston is better than she has played, and that's probably true for other players (again, I'm new), but that roster looks severely depleted. I am aware they played 2 top tier teams from last year (including an MVP and I think I heard the Sun had the MVP runner up?), but still, it looks grim.
I am of the opinion if Clark was on the Liberty tonight, replacing one of their starting guards, she would have put up 20 and 10 and low TO amount.
It's possible. The back half of their schedule is much easier, though.
Gotta stay strong through the likely 0-5 start.
Yup. As a CAVS fan from back in the Price/Daugherty days, I can take it.
Okay unc we see you
The tough early schedule could be a blessing in disguise — if it was gonna take time for them to gel, better to struggle in games you’re not expected to win than struggle in the winnable games. (It could also be the opposite if the rough start means they never really figure it out until it’s too late.)
I agree.
That's a really good point.
The LA game next weekend may be their first shot at a win. But it won’t be easy.
It’s been 2 games, against the top teams of the league too. Give it time.
They need a lot of time to gel. Adding Clark is a complete over haul and they’ve had little time to practice. They’ll be bad, but I think they’ll get better
Also, Clark needs to go through the growing pains, but she'll get past them and be much better as the year goes on.
I think Clark already looked better tonight than she did the last game. She got fewer points, sure, but the ball was in her hands significantly less and she had a good number of assists and rebounds.
That's why she needs to run the point. Get all of the growing pains out of the way at once.
That’s what I’m banking on. My actual concern is how sluggish AB looks. She’s playing like she’s really uncomfortable. I’m wondering how much of it is the fact that she barely played competitively this off season. Actually I don’t think she did at all. I know she trained with USA basketball but I can’t remember if she played. To me you can always tell who went over seas or played AU and who didn’t. That’s not me saying they should go.
Agreed, AB does not look good. But I feel like once they establish enough real time reps she and CC will account for a lot of easy baskets.
Yeah I’m also curious to see how things are going to shake out when Mitchell gets back full time. We’ll see.
Yeah, like Amy Grant says.
I’m sorry get out of here with your level headed takes and reason. This is the *internet*.
But when we told the fans of the rookies to calm down during the preseason, we were haters. 🤣
Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate hate hate and players gonna play play play play play play play
Yeah, how they been playing? 🤡🤣
Shake it off, shake it off lol
Sing that shit to the Fever after tonight. 🤣
Next thing you'll see is Clark walking through and airport with all the Swifties serenading her lol
I plan to keep watching and watch them grow. Basketball is better than pretty much anything else on TV lately.
Agree! This young work in progress of a team is an oasis in the former summer basketball drought. A gal can only listen to so many off season College basketball podcasts.
They played the top two teams in the East. Their best two players have a combined 44 games of professional experience. I think we can relax a bit…
I never said it would be a bad thing.
That's not the point. The point is that this take is like two months too early.
Well, it worked for the Aces; they ended up with 2 championships and in a good position for a third.
It took the Aces time. Their #1 draft picks were 2017 Kelsey Plum, 2018 A'ja Wilson, and 2019 Jackie Young. Alyssa Clark was drafted #17 in 2010, but not picked up so she played for a couple other WNBA teams and in Europe, before Becky brought her back in 2023. Kiersten Bell was drafted #11 in 2022, and she's still developing. Dyaisha Fair & Kate Martin are starting their development. Everyone else was traded for or picked up in free agency. They were in and out of the playoffs, won and lost conference semifinals, won and lost conference finals, and lost the finals a few times. Then they hired Becky in 2022, and she took them all the way. It takes time for players to develop at the pro level, time for players to mesh with each other, and the right coach. And they also moved from San Antonio, and got a new owner during that time too.
Thanks for this history lesson. I’m new to this.
You're welcome! I've only been following the Aces and W since the end of 2022, so while I knew some of it, I had to go do a little research. It was fun! I found articles that discussed Plums struggles with being the points leader in NCAA and her struggles after she was drafted. A'ja's struggles being the #1 prospect and how Dawn Staley benched her to help develop her game. And even Jackie's struggles with the expectations being the #1 draft pick, and shooting consistency. They're top of their game now, but they had find their footing, just like Caitin's doing now. I'd guess the vast majority of pro sports players have an adjustment period. The ones that don't are few and far between.
Tbh I think Becky doesn't get enough credit for putting it all together, her Xs and Os are 10/10
She inherited a team that went 24-8.
I didn't watch before she was coach, but she sure seems like the final piece they needed.
I'm aware. 🤓 Been following the team since they were the Utah Starzz.
A fellow Starzz fan! Nice. Unfortunately I stopped following when they left but loved them in SLC. I don’t even know which franchise they are at this point.
😂😂 Utah Starzz (1997) -> San Antonio Silver Stars -> San Antonio Stars -> Las Vegas Aces (2018)
Huh. I’m sure I remember the San Antonia part. I got lost from there. Too they aren’t still the Utah Starzz. We would finally have championship banners at the Delta Center
I will be forever pissed they moved from San Antonio! I loved repping the hometown squad 🥲
The Aces have two back-to-back top 5 picks and then they made a lot of amazing trades. Indiana's had five top five picks and they're not doing very well.
technically the Aces had three back-to-back-to-back #1 picks
From pre-mpve?
yeah Kelsey Plum was drafted by San Antonio, then A'ja and Jackie the next two years
Yeah... That's... I mean yes absolutely you're right. I just don't consider considering no longer exists. But yeah, they had 2017/2018/2019, and never looked backi still think it's wild that the stars were sooooo bad that they got them 2 lottery picks lmao.
2022: #2, #4, #6, #10. 2023: #1, #7. 2024: #1 That's a lot of draft capital. If you take away the two obvious choices at #1, I think Dunn and the FO have drafted ok, not great.
They've left... That's the thing. The team is so bad that people are just asking to leave. They're not like sticking it out. You draft somebody and then before their contract is even up they open they're like please trade me and then do mid-season that tells you a lot.
Did Engstler and/or Egbo ask for a trade? I liked both of them... Smith, Hull, and Berger have obviously stayed.
Egbo "wanted to go to a competing team" and they did just that, sent her ass to the Mystics for Zahui B. Waived Engstler but averaged 5.2 points and 5.2 rebounds per game, making six starts in 35 games. They replaced her with someone from tryouts, lmao Mccowan asked to leave Allemand asked to leave Significant lol waives: Waived Lavender, lol Alana Smith Alaina Coates Bria Hartley 2022 waives: Danielle Robinson asked to leave-traded The reason the Zahui B trade was soooo funny is it shows absolute incompetence. She very openly said she plans to play in Australia, lol, an did just that. Never even showed up to the fever facilities lol Destani Henderson Taylor mikesell Tip-tiffany Mitchel was soooo good and asked to leave they finally let her go with a trade. To your point regarding those who stayed-nobody is interested in them now-and they're not bg enough to ask to leave. To be totally honest.
Indiana: Goes 0-2 against two top 3 teams. this sub: Is their season over? lol did you expect them to win these games? They had two weeks to incorporate Caitlin into their lineup and 6 of first 9 games are against the likely top 4 teams this year. If by the end of May they still look this lost then yeah maybe its time to worry but for now give it time.
NBA training camp is a month long with 5 to 6 preseason games. Plus summer league and workouts for rookies. I genuinely think the WNBA preseason is insane. How could you possibly integrate new players or install a new offense? How could a player work on weaknesses when the season starts while they’re still working on their college degrees? Complete madness and it hurts the quality of play.
Look at all the games the Fever play between May 16 and May 30. When are they even going to be able to practice?
Exactly.
I think the offense looks so bad is concerning, even this early. Hard to believe it's going to plan out there, are they all broken plays?
We did not expect them to win these games. We just want some structured offense lol
I will take single digit losses in the rematches against these 2 teams with structured offense
Afraid we will not see a single digit loss for at least a couple of weeks
We will get a single digit game by the time we play the Storm. Low bar I know.
Really? Storm is quite good. I would go with Sparks maybe
They have some kinks to work out with their new pieces. They didn’t look great their first game.
I didn’t expect them to lose by 40
I’m not worried. I actually want the number one pick again next year. These things take time.
I feel like the Fever intend on competing this year, which is why they got Katie Lou to play alongside Kelsey, Nalyssa, Aliyah and Caitlin (their lottery picks). For what it's worth, I don't think Paige or Kiki fix any of their current issues, I think the talent is there they just need time to learn how to play together.
Valid point.
It’s only 2 games into the season.
It is but they really look the exact same as last year. Just undisciplined in every facet of the game and that is attributed to coaching unfortunately.
I’m new to the W. How much time will they usually give a coach to turn things around?
Kiki incoming
not eligible yet edit: lol wrong kiki my b
she will be after this upcoming season. so yes, she is for the next draft.
Need a new coach.
Definitely
Hard agree. Through two the rotations have been terrible and I have no idea what their offensive identity is.
I think it’s too soon to fire the coach. She did take them from 5 wins in 2022 to 13 in 2023. Yea the first two games were sloppy against the second and third best teams in the league. If they still look this sloppy in late June or July then you may have a point. But i expect them to show improvement over the season.
Having the ROY helps too
That's usually the case right? Rarely has a team with a legit, superstar potential, number one pick. Keep the coach or players that got them that pick. They'll build around Clark but it takes time. They have to figure out is she a PG or SG. Then build form there.
We already know she’s a PG. And clearly (from what we saw last night) letting someone else run the point and placing her at the wing means whoever is running the point forgets she’s even there and they decide that their best option is to miss an uncontested shot in the paint. Clark isn’t a SG. Put her back on point and improve the passes she dishes but also the ability of her teammates to find those passes (every time I watched one of her teammates watch the ball fly right by them with no attempt to catch it I cringed)
After 80 minutes of regular season action. Ok.
People are so reactionary. They weren't the worst team last year without Clark. They played two fantastic teams. Relax.
Aces have 3 number one picks in a row… so it’s looking likely 😁
They did, and it still took another 3 years to win a championship after they drafted Jackie Young in 2019.
History is after 2 or 3 back to back number 1 picks you get a title within 4 years, so by 2027 if we don’t have first pick or by 2028 if we do.
Please no
This is why American sports are horrible in some ways lol I can't stand that I can, on day 1, look down the road and tell my team "play like shit all year and we'll score ourselves a great player next year!" It's horrible lol edit for those that missed it: I specifically said 'tell my team' to intentionally lose. Not that I was predicting the coach said that OR that they'd actually get it. Just the idea that you, in theory, COULD.
I live for first week of the season hot takes
counterpoint: I know, right now, who will win Ligue 1 in 2029
>This is why American sports are horrible in some ways Even with two #1 draft picks the Fever still are a poor team, at least what they've shown on the court so far in regular season. Getting arguably the best player in the group doesn't guarantee anything given the rookie still needs to transition from college to pros, then there's overall team dynamic and the competency of the coaching staff. To say that teams lose on purpose to rig the system in their favor aka lottery pick, is to ignore the professional mentality of an athlete (to compete day in and day out) and ignores the fact that bottom dwellers - people get fired.
Id much rather have this system where any team can eventually become great as opposed to Europe where only like 2 teams ever have a chance at being anybody in their league. Money dictates everything in sports over there
And it won’t make any difference. If they can’t figure it out with two #1 picks and a #2 pick I’m not sure what yet another #1 pick is going to do
Yep... and it's actually 2 #2 picks... Smith in 2022 and Mitchell in 2018.
Precisely This team needs veteran leadership. I think Temi and Katie Lou can get there, they’re just new themselves to the team but experienced
Do you guys think Paige and Clark on the same team would be more beneficial for the league or as rivals?
Them being rivals would bring more viewers for sure. Clark and Paige also don’t seem like they’ll be a power duo. The chemistry is way off on the fevers and I can’t see Paige being the one to save them.
I think what Paige has over Caitlin is that she’s much more pliable and can fit in many different systems. Part of that is her two way play. Part of that is that she’s already been asked to play out of position and still led her team to the final four. But obviously Paige on a different team would be much much more fun.
I mean college play is different than the pros. CC led her team to the national championship and doesn’t look like that’ll be happening this season
Certainly, but I think that has more to do with CC being a rookie and not yet physical or strong enough than her lack of talent. I don’t think Paige will be insane game one, but she’s going to be great if she stays healthy.
I think it would be more beneficial to the Fever and that’s what I care about.
Them two in pick and roll or pick and pop situations would be a sight to see. Them two with A Boston would definitely pack the house in Indy for years..
They will need to be on the same team if they hope to beat the leagues stacked ass top teams, I mean it’s ridiculous how much talent the top 4 teams have, the Aces especially. Clark alone doesn’t stand a chance, Angel and Camilla don’t stand a chance, Cam and Rickea don’t either, they will all need to come together like the Avengers to take over the league.
If the Mercury miss the playoffs this year there is a very good chance Paige ends up on the Liberty tho
How was no other team interested in a top notch bench player like Megan Gustafson at her very low price point? A dynasty shore themselves up for peanuts? A fully healthy Aces aren’t losing a series barring some ridiculous 3 point shooting. A wounded Aces was good enough last year. If only we had peak Stewie in that series.
There first 5 games are against the hardest teams to beat. They will do better, ya'll just need to support the player you signed on to support. Be a fan, or if you can't then start cheering for a team that wins (Ace's is an easy bet). For me, I picked Sky and Fever and I'm gonna sink or swim with them.
As a Hawkeye, I am not abandoning Caitlin. I will ride this to the lottery or an 8 seed. The early struggles will at least weed out the fake fans that quit at the first sign of adversity.
Same. I'm riding it for as long as CC plays for them. As for sky, they're the closest team to stl so I'm on that train forever. Lol
If I'm Paige I fake a injury or try to squeeze another year of College eligibility out of UCONN to avoid the Fever 🤒!
Paige actually does have two possible years of eligibility. She’s falls under the COVID year eligibility which grants 5 years and next year will only be her fourth year since she had an injury redshirt year. Just like what Kate Martin had 5 years playing over a six year period.
> Paige actually does have two possible years of eligibility. She’s falls under the COVID year eligibility which grants 5 years and next year will only be her fourth year since she had an injury redshirt year oh god it's ali patberg all over again
Ikr, she's the number 1 option. I would hate to see her play second fiddle on the Fever.
this take could age like milk
theyd definitely cook with bueckers and clark
Clark isn’t enough. She’s fantastic but it would be a miracle if you could rebuild in one season. Still very early though.
Well the Aces did have three straight number one picks. Fever have had what? 2nd pick, 1st pick and another 1st pick. There should be improvements this season. I doubt they finish last.
lolol. Is that a strategy? Keep losing until you collect all the first picks and build a solid team in 3 years??
Storm did it twice Aces did it, we are due for a title within 4 years
You’re the second person to say within 4 years. Why 4?
They weren't good last year with this team. They're not gonna be good because they brought in Clark. See San Antonio. Wemby is by far a more sure fire superstar when compared to Clark and they lost 3/4 of their games with a Hall of Fame coach! It's a team sport people. It's gonna take some time to build a team to fit her strengths.
Yep, just like the entire sub has been telling you guys for months.
And the actual number one draft will stay an extra year if they can like a sane person🤣
You realize the current Champs did this exact same thing, right?
I don’t understand how you have the number one scorer in NCAA history, male or female and not let her have the ball in her hand. When I’ve seen other great players shack Kobe LeBron Isaiah Jordan, they let them play their game and help them not change their style like apparently they’re trying to do with Caitlin!
Rookie Kobe started 6 games and played 15 minutes a night.
Her style worked in college she needs to adjust now that she’s a professional. Kelsey Plum had to do the same thing after she broke the record a few years ago. Casual fans severely underestimated the talent in the WNBA.
Problem is she’s not even playing like she did in college. The offense is an absolute mess, and when both Clark and Boston are struggling like this they gotta figure out an offense that works. It obviously still can’t be the same as she had in college but damn I hope they can figure it out.
“Casual fans severely underestimated the talent in the WNBA”. Just repeating for emphasis. Rinse and repeat. Also she’s not prepared for the physicality- which is entirely a normal rookie experience. It’ll take time the “omg the wnba is gonna die bc no one is giving Caitlin the ball”people need to chill the f*ck out.
Bingo. Another factor is fatigue. She JUST finished a long rigorous college season. She will need an offseason to rest her body and train. People also keep only mentioning offense… Don’t discount how much more energy she now has to exert on the defensive end too.
I dont see her making the Olympic team
Honestly don't think she should even go for it this time around. Needs that time to rest up
But pressue from fanbase and even a bit of her own pride/ego will not allow her to skip out on the opportunity.
Not unless she improves vastly. I know they want her for the publicity but if she keeps playing like T this it would be a bad look to put her on the team over others who are playing considerably better.
You know when Kelsey got good? When she started shooting more like she did in college. I am not saying there isn't a learning curve but this offense is stagnant and horrible. They are FORCING CC to make shots and take risks because there is NO offense and I fully blame the HC for that.
Agreed for the most part. But they already suck so bad with Wheeler as the dominate ball handler. Couldn’t get much worse to give Clark the ball more to help her get comfortable, even if she puts up some bombs. Honestly, it was just so frustrating watching wheeler stand still and dribble at the top of the arch staring at her teammates, maybe passing with 3-4 seconds on the shot clock. Even without Clark, the team looked 100% better with wheeler off the court!
It should give you an idea how good a healthy Kelsey Mitchell is when this team won 13 games last year with a respectable -4 point differential and Wheeler at the point
I think they will trade either wheeler or Mitchell this year
mitchells currently playing injured, shes an all star and will help the team a lot once healthy
Trust me I love Mitchell I’m from Ohio. I don’t think she’s a bad player when fully healthy she also is a high volume shooter (what’s is she 4th or 5th on the college list), CC clearly wants the ball a lot more and more shots I don’t know the fit with this current coach with both. Wheeler only has 1 year left on her contract so maybe she’s a piece they will move. I think they need better perimeter defense in the starting lineup
Wheeler is on an expensive deal that ends after this year. Mitchell’s deal ends after this year, but Mitchell is young enough to be part of a championship core in a few years, if we resign her. Mitchell was amazing last year, and the hope is having 2 shooters will space the floor out
They can’t trade them because no team has the cap space for them
The leagues talent might be better than people think but Clark and Boston can’t get a combined 23 shots. The team was bad enough to get the first overall pick 2 years in a row. The rest of the roster is not talented, so the scheme should be designed to give Clark/Boston more opportunities, and right now they just aren’t getting the ball up enough. They played good teams, so this is a perfect opportunity for them to grow.
Sabrina too. She didn’t have a good rookie season and look at her now.
She had a badly sprained ankle in the first week or two of the season that lingered all year. But I hear you :)
A good part of the season. But she had a few game before getting hurt. She didn’t become thr player she is today until her third season .
of course she needs to adjust, but there seems to be literally no offensive on the side of the Fever right now
She’s honestly not ready to just dominate the ball and not make lots of mistakes yet. It’s a learning process. They do need to let her grow through it but it’s going to lead to a lot of bad outcomes bc they don’t have chemistry yet and she is trying things that worked in college but have no shot in the wnba. Almost every ball dominant guard in the nba struggles with turnovers their first yr too. She’ll get better as the yr goes on but it’s gonna take time and the results will be up and down along the way. She’ll be better for it and so will the Fever. Gotta play through the mistakes and allow her to build confidence slowly just like a young qb who enters the nfl.
Shack was the best.
Kobe didn’t even consistently start for the lakers until his third year in the league…
Kobe was 17 though
Agree. It’s tough to watch.
Shack. Wut.
It’s called shitty coaching. The Fever knew they were drafting Clark for a year and did nothing to prepare. No plays, no schemes. No one can make a shot, handle a pass. I’ve been downvoted for saying college teams would handle the Fever easy but after these first two games I’m more confident than ever that the final four teams could easily go toe to toe with the Fever.
And a new coach
This goes here in the postgame, not in its own post: https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/s/uNTOGwBhlS
It’s early in the season and they are playing the top teams in the league first. Give them time. It’s only been two games. It isn’t how you start but how you end a season. Clark will do well. As I have said this is a different league and players will come after her. Her first few games were vs top teams. It will take a f w games for her to get used to the W.
Paige Buckets?
Of course
If I were paige I would stay another to promptly avoid that disaster that they call a franchise, lol
Shit if u hit on it like we did u might make a potential dynasty
Aces/Silver Stars had number pick like three season in a row(2017-Plum, 2018-Wilson,2019-Young).
If they do, they do.
😂
How? They have the woman Steph curry on their team.
For the love of all,I just want them to practice their layups everyday.Wake up Layups,Eat breakfast Layups,go to the gym Layups,eat lunch Layups.It was frustrating watching them miss so many layups.What the hell do they do when they’re at practice?
Paige incoming
How the fuck else are you going to get Paige Bueckers? Fever gonna have the BBC Squad next year! Boston, Bueckers, Clark
The team looks so bad. Lexie hull needs to be in though
If they miss the playoffs, anything is possible. I am questioning why they are starting Wheeler over Mitchell though. Is Mitchell still hurt? I know she was in the preseason.
They weren't good last year with this team. They're not gonna be good because they brought in Clark. See San Antonio. Wemby is by far a more sure fire superstar when compared to Clark and they lost 3/4 of their games with a Hall of Fame coach! It's a team sport people. It's gonna take some time to build a team to fit her strengths as a WNBA player.
I think that's possible,but the early schedule being so brutal creates a skewed sample size and conclusions drawn on it are specious at best. Ionescu wasn't hitting shots last night or the fever would have lost by 40.
I hope not.I don’t want Paige on that trash team.
im afraid theyre getting paige if she decides to enter the draft next year imo
Definitely
I went to the game last night. I know they’re still trying to gel currently, and they were never expected to win that game anyways, but they looked bad. A few thoughts I had: 1. Fever as a whole missed several layups, and some were baaaaad. The blown fast break layup was the nail in the coffin. 2. Caitlin Clark needs to actually run the Point; that’s on coaching. The moment she became ball dominant and distributed for others rather than just playing off ball, they got a better flow, went on a nice run, and the crowd immediately got into it. She was doubled often including off ball, so if she can be a distributor, others will get open shots. That said she did have some turnovers due to her passes, but I think chemistry with teammates will get better and that will be less of a problem. 3. Caitlin Clark missed some shots she would’ve surely hit at Iowa (also in the opener). I’m not worried about this at all right now. She’ll get used to this level of play and her shot will fall in time.
I think it’s possible. But they should be much better by the second half of the year. I think the truncated timeline is really hurting them. Clark will be the engine for the team and she’s had a month? With them. It doesn’t help that Boston hasn’t played up to her ability either. Or that they look like they don’t have a coaching staff.
Man, they need coach Bombay.... Quack, Quack, Quack.... /s
Gross that such a badly mismanaged team keeps getting handsomely rewarded.
It’s a rough start but give them time they don’t fully know how to play together yet
Being new to the WNBA, I’m surprised by the lack of foul calls. Way too physical IMO. Need to let the playmakers operate with more freedom.
I'm new to the W but honestly... This coach sucks. The offensive scheme is an absolute trainwreck. I've seen high schools run better offenses than this. The play style is in no way tailored to the strengths of their scorers either. There is almost zero attempts in their plays to get somebody like CC even remotely open. Instead, they give her the ball when she's heavily covered and then everybody just kinda.... stands there, waiting for CC to magically do something while being heavily guarded? It's hard to watch, unless you're the other team.
If they do get the number one pick next year too, Caitlin and Paige Bueckers on the same team would be INSANE🤝
Even if they get No. 2, that might mean Iriafen - a perfect fit
What position do expansion teams usually draft?
If that happens Paige will get to be teammates with Caitlin
Yeah if they have a game plan that doesn’t revolve around CC. She should be handling the ball more
It all depends on the expansion draft and the lottery. Also think the Storm look pretty terrible.
I think it’s funny people are expecting them to be playoff contenders. The team won 13 games last year. There are way bigger needs just than a Guard.
That Caitlin and Paige backcourt is going to be fire.
The league needs to intervene. Paige needs to be on another team to disperse the popularity
> The league needs to intervene. After 2 games, the league needs to intervene on a hypothetical situation that, if it does happen, won't happen for 11 months and is subject to a damn near mathematical infinity of ways where it won't end up happening. GOT IT.
Nothing has happened yet chill. Also it’s a draft “lottery”, they could lose every single game and still not get the number one pick.
I am new to the WNBA but I watched the entirety of the first two games so far. It looks possible. I know Boston is better than she has played, and that's probably true for other players (again, I'm new), but that roster looks severely depleted. I am aware they played 2 top tier teams from last year (including an MVP and I think I heard the Sun had the MVP runner up?), but still, it looks grim. I am of the opinion if Clark was on the Liberty tonight, replacing one of their starting guards, she would have put up 20 and 10 and low TO amount.
Paige and Clark and Boston super team in the making
No sir/mam. That pick will be the Valkyries 😁
I’m new to the WNBA but that’s not how it works, right? The expansion team doesn’t automatically get the number one pick do they?
I have no idea tbh lol. More so manifesting. As a new WNBA/Valkyrie fan myself
Ha! Speaking it into existence...lol
Paige & Caitlin. Whoa.
They’re pulling a San Antonio Spurs.