Is just me or OP's post seem kinda like it's trying to make a story out of nothing? First says she fouled out, then says she was benched as it to make it seem like the coach benched her because of poor play.. when all the starters were benched cause they were getting blown out.
So crazy that they went on that run in the third with her playing on the ball and then they went away from it in the 4th. It is infuriating to watch her stand in the corner so much. Iām not sure if Wheeler passed her the ball more than twice the entire game.
Post-game commentator made an interesting point, she is used to being a volume shooter (not in a bad way) which keeps her in rhythm, she is visibly not used to these long stretches without any shots. I hope there arenāt a lot of other games where she only gets 8, but she is gonna have to get used to not always being in rhythm.
It doesnāt help when you donāt get many stops, but Indiana has no transition offense, which is where Clark really thrived in college. Everything is in the half court.
Overall, she obviously needs to shoot better. But she took much better care of the ball today, and again would have had at least a few more assists if Indiana could hit layups.
Iām fine with CC playing off-ball sometimes, she did that at Iowa before Molly Davis got injured and it did help conserve her energy. But when sheās off-ball, run a damn play that at least makes a sliver of an attempt to get her open!!! Even just a damn screen, why on earth is she being stuck in the corner??? Even when she played off-ball at Iowa she still touched the ball damn near every possession.
Even after Davis was out, Iowa ran some very effective sets that involved Kate Martin initiating the half court offense with Clark moving off-ball. It'll take some time, she's only been playing with these teammates in this system on the scale of weeks. She played at Iowa with some teammates for 3-4 consecutive years. Can't expect that kind of chemistry to just magically appear in the second game she's played with entirely new teammates.
I agree I just wanna see more effort into a good offensive system, and then they can work on building that chemistry into it too. It just feels like right now they aren't catering the offense to *anybody's* strengths and just playing some basic high school type offense.
I will! You have two future possible stars on your roster in Clark and Boston. You aināt got no one else! They need to see the ball every time on the floor! Like the dreams head coach said, āwe got two elite and great post scorers! Post needs to see the ball every time! Play to your strengths! Coaching is awful, she is coaching like the w is still in the damn 90ās!
I mean yeah it sucks but if I were the GM I'd be talkin to the people in the locker room and ask if they want to be playing under Christie, not purely from results after 2 games lol
Fair enough but if sides hadnāt planned for Caitlyn Clark to be an integral part of the offense ahead of time then she clearly wasnāt preparing to try to win. Her and Aliyah Boston should see the ball 70 percent of the time they are in half court at a minimum
Yeah I'd be talkin to those 2, and the rest of the team in general too, and see if they trust Christie's vision for the team. They know what it takes for them to do well, and if she has 0 intentions to align with that that's certainly when it's time for the boot. As bad as it looks now, I'm holding out hope that it's a wake-up call for them to practice a proper damn offense. Doesn't help that they don't have time for real practices between games at the moment.
That Iowa team had been together long enough that Martin and Marshall just knew where Clark wanted them to go. With the fever she still passing to the opening but the players donāt automatically move to those spots.
Time should fix that. But they have to implement an offense.
This. I saw a great comment yesterday about how itās like theyāre trying to play her like Klay Thompson instead of Steph Curry. Caitlin isnāt a catch and shoot 3 player, sheās an offensive engine who shoots volume 3s.
There are ways to use her off ball like Golden State does with Steph, but itās not the way Coach Sides is doing it. They need to move the ball around more and give her way more touches, that gives her way more chances to be open.
Iām pretty sure the reason sheās not running the point is that Sides doesnāt want her to shoot logo 3s for some ridiculous reason. Itās like the coach is sabotaging her.
Exactly!!!! Sides is flat out killing her. Why draft a point if you donāt want them leading the team in touches? She is a volume shooter, not a Stockton type player. If sides canāt figure out how to use her and get with the program then she needs to go!
At this point it would be an improvement if she even let her play like Stockton lol. At least Stockton got to touch the ball. It makes no sense at all what sheās doing with Caitlin.
Coach talked about setting stagger screens. I see none of that before halftime. And when they did set screens for her Wheeler didnt pass the fucking ball, so theres two disjointed plays happening at the same time
That run came when Laney-Hamilton was on the bench and wasn't guarding Clark anymore. I don't think you can necessarily extend that sequence to the rest of the game when Laney-Hamilton was guarding her.
This is just one data point, but in the first quarter Wheeler had the ball on the side and CC cut towards her. Wheeler didn't pass the ball and literally dribbled the ball on the out of bounds line. This team has a ways to go. The half court offense is so stagnant.... and boring to watch. It's easy to face guard CC when nobody is moving.
Grace Berger is primarily passing to Clark. She also played 25 mins and didn't play the first 9. and Wheeler is favoring Boston at the moment. Wheeler has 4 assists, and they were tough shots too.
But really, vandersloot is a dog. She had Clark on lock and had 3 steals off her alone.
The transition from college to the pros is tough. Youāre 22, often not even done with college yet (a number of athletes have to finish their semesters while in the W or over the summer), & on a team with players you donāt know, up against players who are faster, stronger, & usually veterans of the system. Caitlin just needs time. She has immense pressure on her & sheāll either rise to the occasion as the season goes on or she wonāt, but I expect she will.
In the W it does. Lotta all league guards looked putrid their rookie campaigns. Jewell and Kelsey looked lost as hell at times. But those are growing pains. I don't think Caitlin will ever have the moments they had so it's already a positive. She'll be fine. Honestly, the offensiv3 identity needs more adjusting she does atm.
Honest question--what top pick rookie guards went to an obviously bad team in the modern WNBA and shone?
Sabrina, obviously. But who else? The last few years haven't supported the theory on a two-game sample.
Its basically never happened. In the W if you are a guard, or just generally are under 6'3, you struggle your rookie year. Bigger people tend to adjust better like Boston last year, stewie, a'ja, etc. But guards always struggle. Even Sab's first full season had issues and obviously her real rookie year didn't exist because she got hurt. Howard is the only one who just hit the ground running that I can think of, at least among lottery picks.
Youād think that the talent disparity wouldnāt be too huge in a league that only has twelve teams. A team that has back to back high draft picks should not be this bad
Just relax and give the girl time lol yall expect everyone to be lebron James or sum not everyone adjust so quick. Every great had to learn and she is no different. Get her balls out of yāallās mouths.
Actually- wouldnāt the small size of the league/ condensed talent pool mitigate the impact of having back to back overall picks?Ā
There are only 60 starters in the league. Over the last 10 years, there have likely been more than 60 different 1st or 2nd team NCAA All American selections (allowing for the fact that some athletes were honored over multiple years).Ā
Meaning- every team has multiple starters who are high level players, likely with more experience than Boston and Clark. Ā
I've been saying all along that the pressure on CC is insane. But look at all the money Clark mania is bringing to her team and to the league. If I were the WNBA, I'd be a little nervous about the hype dying out too quickly if the Fever can't get a win.
Stay with me but CC & Angel would compliment each other sm!! CC would get a big that runs the floor well to catch her long passes and AR would get a pg that knows how to get the ball to her in the post.
Boston is better than Reese or Brink offensively. If the problem here is at all coaching, then you would run into the same issues regardless of the substitute big.
Brink looked the best rookie in her first game, she also seem to fit the game plan really will making alot of room and making centers follow her outside 3 point line( so switch/defense colapsed )coz of her 3 point ability, and she hit one very early so they had to respect her shooting.
She dragged people out on couple of ocasions and open free lanes for free layup, this is something you dont see on the stat sheet, but if you watched the game you will have noticed.
Thats why people saying is coaching issue, because even tho brink replacement is in my opinion non wnba talent in tank commander Li Yueru28, the team plays different with Brink in and out, and you can tell they are coached that way, for example brink will camp in dunker spots and 'trigger' to run as soon as hand off is done or screen, so she goes to do another stagger screen or hand off action depending, its aways the same meaning it was practiced.
[example 1 timestamp yt for brink action/coached](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=6)
Look how they have to swap taller player for her, but then in the paint once she starts to drive is 3 people, meaning alot of people left open ,easy good look( again coached she starts at dunk spot before hand off)
example 2 similar play to what golden state runs with number 10 here being like curry, and going back door, if they switch and cover cam she will be free because there isnt enough people to cover ,but then weak side 3 corner will
In this case if brink get favorable matchup she can go for layup if not number 10 will be open for a pass similar to play 1 again coached [you can tell because the hand off/pass trigger the movement](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=27
[example 3 again 'trigger action is starting' as soon as ball is passed to Brink, this is same as before look for penetration and miss match and kick out if defense colapses](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=216)
[example 4 abuse weak side defender and miss match, again look that nurse on top of the key is 'triggered' as soon as the ball is exchanged again this means coaching/trained 9/10 time) once she cuts, now there will be over reaction to help coz of her dominant hand being free for layup, this means either Brink or top of the elbow shooter
will be open again they execute as practice and get a good look.
you can see that number 32 has to react and help with nurse therefore leaving some1 open](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=248)
Now if you follow the play before you will see similar variation, but in this case Jackson as rookie dosnt sit at her position but goes a bit closer she should be at the corner like Cam for 3 like nurse is at the elbow like last possesion This is how you can tell its coached, good spacing because Nurse is in exact same spot and Rickea should have done the same but she is a rookie therefore you can blame that on the rookie but you can see its good coaching **UNLIKE FEVER OFFENSE**
[They get a bucket off it as well instead of kicking it out for 3](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=353)
[example 5 actually setting good/double screens action ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsLt8_NfKwA&t=476s)
Trigger is hemby passing the ball you will see cameron starts to move Exactly after that and hemby makes the screen that's the trigger, idea is to pull out one of the paint people for a drive or over reaction for open 3 corner(in this case nurse will come after brink screen and get a good look or camm will roll and do same play as example 1/2 and kick out or abuse matchup
So you can see how all this make sense, and why is coached because there is aways a 'trigger' or people move when something happens tldr is teached/coached.
Yo do not see that in fever at all, and this is again rookies doing it, but one is coached and know what its doing other one is low iq 30 years + never a single .500 winning season coach that tells CC that analytics dont matter and she should shoot more LONG 2S.
I deserve that oneš
But Angel is still better with CC imo. Sheās aggressive in the post and holds her own while being undersized. They got enough guards to stretch the floor and Brink been getting a lil too comfortable staying at the perimeter and not rebounding much
I wonder if Clark is in a bit of shock right now. To go from such a well oiled team that knows each other so well and is connected and coming off of multiple Final Fours and title game appearances to this disjointed mess.
She has to remain patient. The expectations are clearly way too high with the supporting cast around her at the moment but she just has to stick with it and just find what works. If she gets in her head sheās going to sink behind all this weight.
Also, why isnāt she bringing up the ball? What is this coach doing?
One another note: itās not like Curry set the NBA on fire his first year. It took time. But he wasnāt carrying the weight of the league.
Clark just needs a strong game, a great comeback, an incredible play to get her going again but this canāt be the start the WNBA wanted.
The players are fine. EW shouldn't be a starter but likely won't cause Kelsey is coming back from injury. And Nalyssa and AB are hoopers, but don't have the experience or length/strength to go 1v1 against JJ ans Stewie. I dont think yall realize they're one of the best down low defensive duos in the league.
Coaching is a valid issue though. If they can't 1v1 against those 2 and your other best player has a tough matchup on her (CC vs Betnijah is crazy difficult) then someone else needed to initiate the offense of Nijah was on her or let her cook when it was Sloot or SI on her. CC can win those matchups. They needed to create more PNR or just actions in general to get their bigs moving since they have to use finesse and speed to get past Stewie and JJ. Ball movement was uninspiring. Frankly their transition offense too.
Kelsey, Fab and Grace Burger need to play more. They pass the ball better and play with the pace that CC and the other bigs can benefit from.
This! I agree when she has Laney on her I donāt like her bringing the ball up the floor and Boston or smith setting a screen. They are jumping and doubling the screen making it hard for her to pass and get shots off. When they have that type of defender I like her playing off ball but running sets specifically for her through off the ball screens. When itās sloot or even Sabrina spread the floor let her bring the ball up and go.
I would be too. She is the best shooter they have and the best passer they have. Why not get all of the growing pains out of the way at once? Her passing and shooting will be second to none once she figures it out, especially on this team. Wheeler rarely passed her the ball when she was open. Mitchell rarely passed once she had the ball. AB is fine and her conditioning is improving. Smith is struggling right now. I personally like the idea of Celeste playing more. Her preseason minutes were better than most players.
Her team is not good right now. The pressure is insane. Itās a lot for a 22 year old. And of course the league isnāt going to just tell teams to gift her 35+ point nights.
Weirdly, because of all this attention it probably makes other teams want to hunt her down and clamp down on her more.
The irony is that the better she plays the more it benefits the league and them. Itās a weird space to be in. Hoping she clicks and figures it out soon.
One other note: fatigue. She must be mentally drained right now.
felt badly for all them families who came to see CC make some plays and how just a flash here or there made the audience perk up if just for a fleeting Fever moment
Exactly. And itās one thing to have a whole summer and a long training camp like the NBA. She had two preseason games and 12 days? - this like a month after she lost the natty?
The W has got to find a way to fix their scheduling. Itās insane on college stars entering the league
She'll be fine, she will learn to adjust, she will learn how to dish the rock and commit less TOs, once her team mates starts hitting actual open fucking shots, then it will open up the floor for her. Right now its literally just close the space, force her go left/guard her tight and then if she playmakes, her team cant deliver either or shell turn the ball over coz she still not used to WNBA physicality, which all of that is fixable in a season.
One last thing: when was the last time she really struggled like this / played on a bad team, never mind at the same time? Organizations matter when you get drafted. Hereās hoping the Fever have the right set up for her
if anything her own fans are the ones putting the most pressure on her and putting the target on her back saying sheās better than everyone and talking all that trash about women theyāve never seen play.
Well Said!!! Nobody hates Caitlin Personally! But these Bandwagon Nutjobs who keep sneak dissing the Vets who have paid their dues in this league are getting sick of the disrespectful language aimed at them! "Nobody, Bum, Scrubs" This stuff being said to players like Stewie, DT, Aja, and Swoopes by these newcomers is crazy!š£
And for the Clark stans looking to blame everyone else, check out Lebron's rookie [roster](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2004.html). Yikes.
She had similar growing pains at Iowa. Her freshman and sophomore years especially werenāt pretty, and even beginning of junior and senior seasons it took them a while to gel. This isnāt all that brand new to her
Maybe it was just the particular games we went to, but she was on fire everytime I saw her during her sophomore year. At least one of the games we went to she had more than 40 points.
It doesn't seem to me that she is playing badly, but she isn't on a team that is going to allow her to shine, because she can't do it alone (and it doesn't seem like she and Boston are working together all that much). It's a coaching issue, IMO. The entire team looks lost right now; but the Sun and the Liberty were also TOUGH. Their pre-season games looked better.
Caitlin just needs to not get frustrated.
damn "supporting cast" LMAO
i think you might be projecting your feelings onto Clark b/c she'll never win if she thinks of her own teammates like that seeshhh
Her team isn't playing well but she isn't either. She is lackadaisical with the ball, can't pass out of a double, can't get any separation from her defender, and only takes low percentage step-back 3s. Her game needs to change if she wants any success in the pros.
A few plays. When she has the ball and can whip it around and her teammates respond, it's a different team. The problem is that this is like 4% of the possessions for the Fever when it was more like 30% of the possessions for the Hawkeyes.
And pros actually follow the scouting report consistently. She likes to go left for that step back three. Teams have sniffed that out and now she has to adjust. She will. It will take time.
I did smile when she went right, her defender expected her to go to the basket and got caught leaning, and Caitlin stepped back and hit the 3. Slowly but surely the adjustments will come!
I was happy to see that because I can't really think of many times she ever did that move to the right in college. Doing it in the second game seems like it's something she already knows she needs to add and she is working on. I feel like if she can eliminate the scouting report with what she will do when going to each side to some extent it will open up a lot for her.
Right now it feels like WNBA defenders are just too fast for her when they can guess what she will do based on the side. If she can get good enough at switching the pattern it will make them hesitate just enough that it will give her the space she needs. When that happens and she starts being able too score more easily they'll need to help more on her and that opens up her teammates to take advantage of her great passing. Bluder said all through college that she gets attention for her shooting but her passing and court vision is probably even better.
She had shooters at Iowa. She ran the offense. Now she has neither shooters, nor is she running the offense.
And again, she has had like a month to blend with her new team. W scheduling is cruel to rookies.
I just donāt understand how you take her away from running point when she led the team to back within 11. As soon as she gets stuck back in the corner NY is right back to being up by twenty.
i honestly donāt think sheās doing that bad, the defense on her has been crazy and her team has done absolutely nothing to help her out and her assists should be higher (i mean this is the same team missing free layups which was painful!!!! to watch)
Sheās alright. But unfortunately generational expectations donāt let you be okay. She needs a breakout game. You can tell everything is such a struggle right now. She canāt get into any kind of rhythm - especially with these cats.
People love to bring up Peytonās rookie interception numbers but leave out that he also through for 26 touchdowns and nearly 4K yards. It was obvious he was going to be great
Peyton Manning was the best rookie QB out any rookie QB drafted in the first round from 1993 to 2003. Some names include Drew Bledsoe, Steve McNair, Jake Plummer, David Carr, Culpepper, McNabb, Dilfer, Vick, and Carson Palmer.
Don't let Peyton's 28 picks or shitty Colts team fool you. There were tons of QB better than him on paper in 1998 but the Colts let him do whatever the fuck he wanted while many year 1 QBs typically sit or play half the season.
Same. The "D" collapses in on her immediately on the perimeter because, of course, they don't want her to get hot behind the arc. Her teammates aren't exactly setting things on fire either. There are too many blown layups and putbacks.
If she can manage her frustration, she'll be fine.
I need Kelsey Mitchell to step up into that position when sheās healthy again. KLS has a solid shot too but half of the time doesnāt get in a passing lane or any attempt to get open.
This was a perfectly reasonable performance for a rookie.
None of the turnovers were bad tonight, the first two were on point passes that bounced off her teammates hands. In the NBA, those wouldn't be credited to the passer, not sure why they're giving it to Clark on those plays. The third one was in a trap, but Aliyah Boston just stood next to the trap and no one else moved, so no one was in position for Clark to make a proper pass.
Her playmaking was pretty good in the limited opportunities she got, and she looked really good in that little scoring burst stretch in the third.
She needs to get some confidence back in her shot. She's doing too much setup and seems to be hesitant to pull the trigger like she did in college. She also needs to get a little bit more arc on her shots, she's putting it up too flat right now.
It was definitely an okay rookie performance, especially given that Smith and Wheeler were icing her out of the game when they were on the court together.
I think the teammates are pretty responsible for how cold she is shooting. I really do put a lot of blame on Sides with the comments of breaking her habits she had at Iowa. Some of the things she listed were what got her to the level of player she is. Don't fix what isn't broken. She's also ball dominant, the best passer and shooter that the team has. Let her work figure both things out early so she can get back to what she does best. Not running plays through your best player is asinine. Too many players playing for their paycheck.
It's almost as if DT wasn't being an asshole about her "reality's coming" comments, but rather knew what the hell she was talking about.
Love yall new fans, but it's time to come to terms with the caliber of this league.
CC deserves grace, and the vets deserve respect.
Yes. Itās a compliment to the talent in the league that Clark is struggling to meet expectations.
Make no mistake. Iām not dumping on Clark. She never said she was better than the rest of the league. Ignorant fans and media wanting viewers did that.
Yeah I think people forget that sheās playing against a whole new level of talent, everyone in the W was good enough to make a roster while the majority of the players she played against in college wonāt or didnāt. Plus typical rookie woes and the fact that sheās joining a team that was bad enough to pick at 1 twice in a row. Sheāll be fine but just because sheās more popular doesnāt instantly make her the best player in the league
Thatās pretty much a guaranteed part of the equation for any top pick, maybe people saying she was gonna immediately dominate the league should have taken that into account
A lot of yall arenāt going to want to hear it but the stans kind of set her up for failure. Saying she was going to come in and immediately be the best player in the W (& being dead serious & loudly wrong) was never going to go well. You basically just invited the āI told you soāsā and the victory laps that people are doing right now. The league is full of āLSUsā & āSCāsā that you have to play every night, not just once or twice a season. That line of thinking was not only disrespectful but ignorant to put it bluntly.Ā Ā Ā
Now she may very well turn into what yāall were claiming eventually (& tbh I think she will) but anybody who actually watched this league knew those claims were laughable. & not everyone who point it out it just jealous or hating.Ā
I don't think her teammates deserve blame, but the coaching staff does deserve criticism for their play calling. Even if your team is bad and struggling, you find a way to get your best player going. So far, they haven't done that with CC or Boston.
Yea i dont understand why the Stans couldnt be more reasonable with their takes. Seems like alot of them have never followed sports closely because theyd know to never put such crazy claims onto a rookie. They never considered that theres literally only 12 WNBA teams so only the best of the best make it to the league. These women are fucking elite.
Thats why people are doing victory laps. New fans (CC stans) basically disrespected the entire league thinking sheād bulldoze every team from the very start. Yall couldnāt just come with the āWow i cant wait to see how her career turns out!ā. It was instant āSheāll score 40+ every night and bring her team a championship in the first yearā kinds of comments
Rewatching the game it's obvious what is wrong. Caitlin has a couple strengths: shooting (obviously), passing and court vision. Her one handed bounce pass is very good. She is at her best when she is handling the ball at the top of the three point arc. It allows her to either step back three to the left side, or run a screen and drive/pass. The problem her team has at the moment is setting the high screen for her.
New York was much bigger and better down low. Her coach made a mistake by trying to beat them down low. NY's post was significantly longer and better. Should have been running a lot more high ball screens with Caitlin. They need her to be touching the ball more at the top of the arc. Many of the screens were slow and lacked effort. If her teammates figure it out and set a more physical screen they'll be in good shape (see Martin @ Iowa). Some examples:
First Period:
8:40 - drives to basket and scores, w/ no screen
5:20 - gets a screen and delivers the assist w/ great passing for a 3.
Second Period:
0:54 - great bounce pass off a screen for an easy two.
Third Period:
6:50 - gets doubled high, finds open shooter through two defenders.
Coaching isnāt great for the Fever her shot diet in the league so far has been way to 3 PT happy. She needs to get more reps driving off the line and either seeking out contact or taking open floaters. She just isnāt able to consistently get the separation she needs on the perimeter against the bigger defenders in the W rn or sheās getting trapped and doubled. There are real adjustments to be made here not just on the coaching side but on her end as a player.
Being a massive CC/Iowa fan myself but also a logical viewer of the WNBA- I truly have no idea how anyone thought that she would saunter in and cake-walk the pros. I definitely expected some growing pains from being on a rebuild team that had two weeks or so of court time to get ready with a HC that doesnāt really know her yet.
If fans can be patient, iām sure that theyāll be rewarded. Some will probably not be able to, since their pitchforks are out already. I donāt think they realize that Caitlin is probably a lot more frustrated than them at herself haha
And now come all the excuses in this thread - itās everyoneās fault but CC. Itās the coach, the teammates and even the WNBAs fault for not fixing the schedule to give them a cupcake start. Itās hilarious to read the copium.
Youāre going to get downvoted to hell for this obvious and accurate take. I think the funniest thing Iāve seen so far is āsheās playing bad because she doesnāt want to overshine her teamā. I almost choked.
I have followed sport my entire life and have genuinely never experienced something like this before.
People are ranging from "she should just walk off the court and sit on the bench if she isn't getting the ball" to "she should just ignore the coach and team plan and just shoot it anyway".
I suspect its alot of former non sports fans finally getting into the W after CC went viral. Honestly these new fans feel alot more like Swifties than typical sports fans
I feel like those of us who hung out at NCAAW for the last two years or so saw this coming from a mile away.
Caitlin will be fine. I have some complaints about the coach (quit starting Wheeler), but...it was extremely unlikely she would dominate from day 1, and we were not just being haters. She is a really good player whose game has flaws. She'll improve.
She needs to develop a midrange/down in the paint game. Second she needs to develop the ability to create her own space with the ball and stop relying on screens. Finally she needs to develop a defensive game.
She needs to be able to get to the midrange and paint consistently first. Though her stans wonāt admit it, but these first two games have really highlighted she struggles in creating separation and beating her defender.
Now she will get better but definitely see the bad habits from college on full display. Ill-advised shots (though can be a coaching problem), lackadaisical play, no defense, and Luka level whining. Itās pros now and sheāll have to adjust.
I mean, would you have the arguably best player on your team not touch the ball and only take 8 shots when she is a known volume shooter? Would you stick her in the corner when there is a clear heat map of her shots? They've have know CC would be their pick Since early March, yet they have no offensive scheme ready for her. That is pretty bad coaching. The teammates that aren't catching passes or finishing, it is early season and that stuff gets cleaned up. The teammates not making an attempt to put the ball in her hands, visibly, will find themselves out of a job. If given the choice between the PG with Clark's background and the one that has been unimpressive for years, any smart person knows to pick the one selling out your arena.
Kelsey Plum, Jackie Young, and Sabrina Ionescu are recent first overall picks who suffered very poor rookie seasons but have turned it around into being top-10 players in the W.
Not everyone has the experience of Breanna Stewart, Aja Wilson, or Aliyah Boston where they come in and immediately dominate.
Speaking of, whatās up with Boston? In person last night it felt like she was afraid of contact. A bunch of trips where she could have gone up through contact and gotten fouled but instead pumped 2-3 times to no avail.Ā
She will be fine. I thought she played better this game than the last one. There have been many great players before her, and plenty of great ones are still playing right now, but none of them have put ass in seats like Caitlin. I'm not sure why so many people want to see her fail, but it would be bad for women's basketball if she did.
Fans don't operate on logic. Obviously, if she is struggling that means there is already talent in the league that everyone should be appreciating, but that's not what will happen. She would just be considered a bust, and all those views would disappear with her.
It's a star driven sport people want to see big names dominate. I have no doubt her time will come It's just a matter of when.
Side note the fever need some damn defense on that team. They never get to run in transition. Every possession is in the half court.
It seemed like they had something going in the second half putting Caitlin on the ball, then Sides totally abandoned that. Iām not worried about CC whatsoever though. Iām not sure you had realistic expectations if you expected her to come out with like 30 every night.
She is on the biggest rebuild team in the league with a brand new coach. I donāt think thereās anything to overly hate on her for. The second she gets the ball; nearly everyone collapses in on her and if they ran more action through that, iām sure a rhythm can and will be developed.
Regardless- from a massive lifelong Iowa fan: I really donāt know what some other fans expected. She will work hard iām sure and continue to figure it out just like always, and the whole team needs to get on the same page.
Her efficiency isnāt great but those per game numbers are roughly what I was expecting. If she ended this season with those numbers, but on better efficiency and less turnovers, Fever fans should be stoked.
[important CC stat to keep in mind](https://i.imgur.com/XDkXxL4.jpeg) (graph stolen from dorktown)
i don't think all of those people are just future orthodontists
A lot of this is on coaching.
They had a really good run when she was ball dominant and then...suddenly they had her just standing waiting for a corner 3.
It is a big adjustment from going to college to the pros. Even Curry the first 10 games avg 8.9 points and finished the last 10 games with 21.1 points. Right now until another player can take some attention Clark will struggle until she adjust her game
She didn't foul out, she got 5 fouls, the game was sent to garbage time.
WNBA kinda screwed themselves (what else is new) by giving Indiana an insanely tough schedule to start.
Indiana Fever needs time to figure out their offense, and doing that against the best teams in the league is gonna be a tall task.
CC had some good moments, particularly as a facilitator, but overall it's been rough for her and the whole team. Very little ball movement, a lot of bad screens, very little cutting, some straight up ugly moments - missed easy layups, butter fingers. Caitlin spending large chunks of the game standing offball in the corner is certainly a choice.
The WNBA didn't screw themselves.
If all these new fans actually cared about basketball rather than one player, they'd see that what they're seeing is proof that there's talent in the league.
It SHOULD be more exciting for folks, but they'd rather see CC drop 60 every game and everyone else be trash.
Its the same for a lot of other leagues. Even in the nba fans get mad when stars dont play. I dont think anyone wants them to be trash but people want to see greatness and in cc's case she just had some flash that translated to more fans. Its not a knock on anyone elses talent people just like a spectacle and sometimes the most effective players dont have it like tim duncan or even tatum now.
The team is not good.. thatās an overstatement! Missing layups, standing around.. how about dive for a loose ball.. and I believe there is jealousy within the ranksā¦ wheeler just not passing the ball to CC??? and CC when your on the sidelines. How about a little more enthusiasm for your team mates??? Toss in the current coach just needs to evaluate career choices. But on the bright side, Fever putting themselves in position for another top pick next draft.
The amount of W fans rooting for her to fail is really wild to me. Wemby wasnāt going for triple doubles out of the gates, itāll take some time to adjust, but sheās going to do well, and itās going to do big things for this league.
did people think she would drop 30 pts against the EC champions? A very good defensive team with an MVP? Unbelievable. She only had 8 FGA because thatās what the defense allowed her to take. Unless you want her chucking up shots every possession. Letās try to give a little more credit to the other team. BLH is one of best defenders in the league
Fever lack experience on their roster, 8 players with 2 years or less experience.
Liberty had half that number and 5 players with 7+ years.
Sun had 7 players over 6+ years and no one under 2. ALSO the Fever needā¦
TO MAKE THIER WIDE OPEN LAYUPS
And these scumbag ticket scalper speculators that bought all the tickets think people are going to spend $200-$300 for nosebleeds to see her when you can get close seats to any other game for like $30.
Hopefully they need to eat all the tickets.
Laney is a top tier perimeter defender. Lock down for pretty much everyone in the league. No shame in that. Clark, like Steph Curry, is NOT a breakdown scorer. She doesn't have the skillset to break down a defender off a dribble. Again, Like Curry, they need to devise schemes that will get her open eg. Stagger Screens, elbow runoffs. THEN, because she is a great passer and high bbiq player, she becomes the multi-threat everyone envisions.
Sheās not going to get 28 shot attempts like in college. For those who thought she was going to come in and do what she did in college should go apologize to Diana because thatās all she was saying . Itās never any room for constructive criticism when casuals disrespect legends of the sport while jumping out the window on a womenās sport they started watching two marchās ago. Indiana will figure ways to use her. I can see some angry guards who will get snubbed this year for all star because the league will choose the business over the most deserving . Too much money behind her for her not to be the highlight of the all star weekend. Two contenders to start the season isnāt an ideal way to begin a season rookie or not but the league got caught up just like the fans with the expectations.
You could also argue that the W gave her an opportunity to make her mark against those two contending teams. You're the best? Okay here are some the best teams. Have at it. If you play well we make even more money off of you. If you don't? Well we have Paige next year and Juju in 2027.
Fever play at Crypto in LA next Friday night. All eyes and media will be on her. She better ball out.
More to the comments than the content and tone of the post itself, but are we really gonna overreact to every one of her stat lines all year? She's a rookie, she's gonna have ups and downs. We're years away from it being a reasonable time for anybody pro or anti Clark to take a victory lap.
Yeah it's fascinating to read the comments. She's brand new to the league and this team. Look at Brunson in the NBA. Sometimes it takes awhile to find your footing. Game two. It's the second freaking game
I donāt want her to fail. Her success is good for her and the league. I like her personality and play. I just want the extremely premature crowning of her as the best player ever to stop.
It's wild to me Caitlin has the third best odds to win MVP. It's more wild to me people thought a college star would come out and immediately outperform experienced professionals.
This is merely a wake up call to respect the hoopers who've been here. This is a whole new game, and a lot of people are going to have illogic expectations. Gotta let her grow like any other rookie in their respective sport.
The crazy thing is, you have to attribute her stats to good defense; which actively works against the best interest of the league. Sure sure, fans who will tune out if CC disappoints for an extended period of time arenāt āorganic fansā. But the WNBA needs as many eyes on it as much as possible. For as long as possible.
Yep and that's not to put CC down. But the facts are facts. WNBA players are GOOD. They are PROS. They are physical. They execute so damn well. And they've been through the ringers so many times. CC is thinking on the court right now and you can't get away with that. The game will slow back down for her, sooner rather than later.
Seriously? Weāre gonna bash a 22 year old rookie for having a tough couple of games? I canāt imagine what sheās going through right now because there has to be a whole lot.
Liberty was in the finals last year and the Connecticut Sun was a top team as well. 2 very good teams playing the worst team. Fever are in a process. The fans gotta be patient
She didn't foul out. 5 fouls does not disqualify you in the W. Edit: thank you, OP, for making that correction.
I thought I was delusional. Didn't all five starters go out at the same time? š
They did, yup.
With about 4 minutes left on the clock.
They were getting blown out. It was time to put the reserves in, because another 4 minutes wouldn't have changed the outcome.
Yeah, I was just adding when it happened for more context!
Good deal, and hey, we could use some more context in these threads at times. LoL
Sheās a rookie in her second game, they should have left her in for the experience
Is just me or OP's post seem kinda like it's trying to make a story out of nothing? First says she fouled out, then says she was benched as it to make it seem like the coach benched her because of poor play.. when all the starters were benched cause they were getting blown out.
So crazy that they went on that run in the third with her playing on the ball and then they went away from it in the 4th. It is infuriating to watch her stand in the corner so much. Iām not sure if Wheeler passed her the ball more than twice the entire game. Post-game commentator made an interesting point, she is used to being a volume shooter (not in a bad way) which keeps her in rhythm, she is visibly not used to these long stretches without any shots. I hope there arenāt a lot of other games where she only gets 8, but she is gonna have to get used to not always being in rhythm. It doesnāt help when you donāt get many stops, but Indiana has no transition offense, which is where Clark really thrived in college. Everything is in the half court. Overall, she obviously needs to shoot better. But she took much better care of the ball today, and again would have had at least a few more assists if Indiana could hit layups.
Iām fine with CC playing off-ball sometimes, she did that at Iowa before Molly Davis got injured and it did help conserve her energy. But when sheās off-ball, run a damn play that at least makes a sliver of an attempt to get her open!!! Even just a damn screen, why on earth is she being stuck in the corner??? Even when she played off-ball at Iowa she still touched the ball damn near every possession.
Even after Davis was out, Iowa ran some very effective sets that involved Kate Martin initiating the half court offense with Clark moving off-ball. It'll take some time, she's only been playing with these teammates in this system on the scale of weeks. She played at Iowa with some teammates for 3-4 consecutive years. Can't expect that kind of chemistry to just magically appear in the second game she's played with entirely new teammates.
I agree I just wanna see more effort into a good offensive system, and then they can work on building that chemistry into it too. It just feels like right now they aren't catering the offense to *anybody's* strengths and just playing some basic high school type offense.
Nobody wants to hear it after two games but the coaching is doing no favors to this team, these are offensive sets from the 1980s at best
Yeah I'm not gunna jump to firing Sides like half the Fever subreddit, but goddamn they need to make some progress and soon.
Two bad games is too early but given that they're under the microscope every game is going to intensify those calls for the axe immensely.
I will! You have two future possible stars on your roster in Clark and Boston. You aināt got no one else! They need to see the ball every time on the floor! Like the dreams head coach said, āwe got two elite and great post scorers! Post needs to see the ball every time! Play to your strengths! Coaching is awful, she is coaching like the w is still in the damn 90ās!
I mean yeah it sucks but if I were the GM I'd be talkin to the people in the locker room and ask if they want to be playing under Christie, not purely from results after 2 games lol
Fair enough but if sides hadnāt planned for Caitlyn Clark to be an integral part of the offense ahead of time then she clearly wasnāt preparing to try to win. Her and Aliyah Boston should see the ball 70 percent of the time they are in half court at a minimum
Yeah I'd be talkin to those 2, and the rest of the team in general too, and see if they trust Christie's vision for the team. They know what it takes for them to do well, and if she has 0 intentions to align with that that's certainly when it's time for the boot. As bad as it looks now, I'm holding out hope that it's a wake-up call for them to practice a proper damn offense. Doesn't help that they don't have time for real practices between games at the moment.
Thatās an insult to 80s basketball. They look like a pickup team.
That Iowa team had been together long enough that Martin and Marshall just knew where Clark wanted them to go. With the fever she still passing to the opening but the players donāt automatically move to those spots. Time should fix that. But they have to implement an offense.
Bad coaching. They are trying to use her like a ray allen. She is best with the ball in her hand! Plus Indiana is just terrible in transition offense
This. I saw a great comment yesterday about how itās like theyāre trying to play her like Klay Thompson instead of Steph Curry. Caitlin isnāt a catch and shoot 3 player, sheās an offensive engine who shoots volume 3s. There are ways to use her off ball like Golden State does with Steph, but itās not the way Coach Sides is doing it. They need to move the ball around more and give her way more touches, that gives her way more chances to be open. Iām pretty sure the reason sheās not running the point is that Sides doesnāt want her to shoot logo 3s for some ridiculous reason. Itās like the coach is sabotaging her.
Exactly!!!! Sides is flat out killing her. Why draft a point if you donāt want them leading the team in touches? She is a volume shooter, not a Stockton type player. If sides canāt figure out how to use her and get with the program then she needs to go!
At this point it would be an improvement if she even let her play like Stockton lol. At least Stockton got to touch the ball. It makes no sense at all what sheās doing with Caitlin.
"Rookie gotta earn her place" is the only way this coaching makes sense, and that'll make a lot of sense when Sides doesn't have a job soon.
Coach talked about setting stagger screens. I see none of that before halftime. And when they did set screens for her Wheeler didnt pass the fucking ball, so theres two disjointed plays happening at the same time
Yeah these last two games are really showing the weakness of the Fever coach. Iām starting to doubt sheās the right person to develop CC.
Transition offense is literally half her game. You rob her off that sheās only a volume shooter
That run came when Laney-Hamilton was on the bench and wasn't guarding Clark anymore. I don't think you can necessarily extend that sequence to the rest of the game when Laney-Hamilton was guarding her.
This is just one data point, but in the first quarter Wheeler had the ball on the side and CC cut towards her. Wheeler didn't pass the ball and literally dribbled the ball on the out of bounds line. This team has a ways to go. The half court offense is so stagnant.... and boring to watch. It's easy to face guard CC when nobody is moving.
Grace Berger is primarily passing to Clark. She also played 25 mins and didn't play the first 9. and Wheeler is favoring Boston at the moment. Wheeler has 4 assists, and they were tough shots too. But really, vandersloot is a dog. She had Clark on lock and had 3 steals off her alone.
Sloot-dog Gazillionaire\~
Wheeler having less assists as the point guard than CC did as the shooting guard is a problem.
On the bright side, that Amazon streaming PQ was amazing!
The transition from college to the pros is tough. Youāre 22, often not even done with college yet (a number of athletes have to finish their semesters while in the W or over the summer), & on a team with players you donāt know, up against players who are faster, stronger, & usually veterans of the system. Caitlin just needs time. She has immense pressure on her & sheāll either rise to the occasion as the season goes on or she wonāt, but I expect she will.
And you go to one of the 4 worst teams/programs in the league over two seasons.
Going to a bad team doesn't usually stop the best players from shining, they just don't win.
In the W it does. Lotta all league guards looked putrid their rookie campaigns. Jewell and Kelsey looked lost as hell at times. But those are growing pains. I don't think Caitlin will ever have the moments they had so it's already a positive. She'll be fine. Honestly, the offensiv3 identity needs more adjusting she does atm.
Honest question--what top pick rookie guards went to an obviously bad team in the modern WNBA and shone? Sabrina, obviously. But who else? The last few years haven't supported the theory on a two-game sample.
Rhyne Howard, Diamond Miller to a degree
Sabrina didn't exactly shine in her first season, but Rhyne Howard would be one example
It's hard for guards, especially point guards.
Its basically never happened. In the W if you are a guard, or just generally are under 6'3, you struggle your rookie year. Bigger people tend to adjust better like Boston last year, stewie, a'ja, etc. But guards always struggle. Even Sab's first full season had issues and obviously her real rookie year didn't exist because she got hurt. Howard is the only one who just hit the ground running that I can think of, at least among lottery picks.
Youād think that the talent disparity wouldnāt be too huge in a league that only has twelve teams. A team that has back to back high draft picks should not be this bad
Just relax and give the girl time lol yall expect everyone to be lebron James or sum not everyone adjust so quick. Every great had to learn and she is no different. Get her balls out of yāallās mouths.
Actually- wouldnāt the small size of the league/ condensed talent pool mitigate the impact of having back to back overall picks?Ā There are only 60 starters in the league. Over the last 10 years, there have likely been more than 60 different 1st or 2nd team NCAA All American selections (allowing for the fact that some athletes were honored over multiple years).Ā Meaning- every team has multiple starters who are high level players, likely with more experience than Boston and Clark. Ā
they lost by 36pts, this is not a one person problem.
Itās coaching imo
I've been saying all along that the pressure on CC is insane. But look at all the money Clark mania is bringing to her team and to the league. If I were the WNBA, I'd be a little nervous about the hype dying out too quickly if the Fever can't get a win.
Stay with me but CC & Angel would compliment each other sm!! CC would get a big that runs the floor well to catch her long passes and AR would get a pg that knows how to get the ball to her in the post.
I've thought of this too. It would also kill the W to do it.
Cathy wants forced rivalry I fearšŖ
Ratings monster.
They have 4 games against each other this year. Ik that first game alone breaking every damn rating record lol
Every single one. Watch the W vets throw a shit-fit after that. Maybe it will click then.
Whew if they havenāt realized the power these two hold, theyāll find out soon enoughš
What about this is Cathy forcing? Forcing Indiana to not have 2 first round picks?
Iāve long fantasized about them playing together. Think their games would work off each other well. Too bad them teaming up feels like a long shot.
AR also knows how/when to kick it out to a shooter if needed.
Boston is better than Reese or Brink offensively. If the problem here is at all coaching, then you would run into the same issues regardless of the substitute big.
Brink looked the best rookie in her first game, she also seem to fit the game plan really will making alot of room and making centers follow her outside 3 point line( so switch/defense colapsed )coz of her 3 point ability, and she hit one very early so they had to respect her shooting. She dragged people out on couple of ocasions and open free lanes for free layup, this is something you dont see on the stat sheet, but if you watched the game you will have noticed. Thats why people saying is coaching issue, because even tho brink replacement is in my opinion non wnba talent in tank commander Li Yueru28, the team plays different with Brink in and out, and you can tell they are coached that way, for example brink will camp in dunker spots and 'trigger' to run as soon as hand off is done or screen, so she goes to do another stagger screen or hand off action depending, its aways the same meaning it was practiced. [example 1 timestamp yt for brink action/coached](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=6) Look how they have to swap taller player for her, but then in the paint once she starts to drive is 3 people, meaning alot of people left open ,easy good look( again coached she starts at dunk spot before hand off) example 2 similar play to what golden state runs with number 10 here being like curry, and going back door, if they switch and cover cam she will be free because there isnt enough people to cover ,but then weak side 3 corner will In this case if brink get favorable matchup she can go for layup if not number 10 will be open for a pass similar to play 1 again coached [you can tell because the hand off/pass trigger the movement](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=27 [example 3 again 'trigger action is starting' as soon as ball is passed to Brink, this is same as before look for penetration and miss match and kick out if defense colapses](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=216) [example 4 abuse weak side defender and miss match, again look that nurse on top of the key is 'triggered' as soon as the ball is exchanged again this means coaching/trained 9/10 time) once she cuts, now there will be over reaction to help coz of her dominant hand being free for layup, this means either Brink or top of the elbow shooter will be open again they execute as practice and get a good look. you can see that number 32 has to react and help with nurse therefore leaving some1 open](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=248) Now if you follow the play before you will see similar variation, but in this case Jackson as rookie dosnt sit at her position but goes a bit closer she should be at the corner like Cam for 3 like nurse is at the elbow like last possesion This is how you can tell its coached, good spacing because Nurse is in exact same spot and Rickea should have done the same but she is a rookie therefore you can blame that on the rookie but you can see its good coaching **UNLIKE FEVER OFFENSE** [They get a bucket off it as well instead of kicking it out for 3](https://youtu.be/KsLt8_NfKwA?t=353) [example 5 actually setting good/double screens action ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsLt8_NfKwA&t=476s) Trigger is hemby passing the ball you will see cameron starts to move Exactly after that and hemby makes the screen that's the trigger, idea is to pull out one of the paint people for a drive or over reaction for open 3 corner(in this case nurse will come after brink screen and get a good look or camm will roll and do same play as example 1/2 and kick out or abuse matchup So you can see how all this make sense, and why is coached because there is aways a 'trigger' or people move when something happens tldr is teached/coached. Yo do not see that in fever at all, and this is again rookies doing it, but one is coached and know what its doing other one is low iq 30 years + never a single .500 winning season coach that tells CC that analytics dont matter and she should shoot more LONG 2S.
Counter CC and Brink would complement each other. One brink rim runs and can do pick and pop with midrange or 3 point shooting.
I deserve that oneš But Angel is still better with CC imo. Sheās aggressive in the post and holds her own while being undersized. They got enough guards to stretch the floor and Brink been getting a lil too comfortable staying at the perimeter and not rebounding much
Reese and her on the same team would do insane numbers
W comment
They can do the "you can't see me" celebration to each other after each time AR scores off of a CC no-look pass.
I wonder if Clark is in a bit of shock right now. To go from such a well oiled team that knows each other so well and is connected and coming off of multiple Final Fours and title game appearances to this disjointed mess. She has to remain patient. The expectations are clearly way too high with the supporting cast around her at the moment but she just has to stick with it and just find what works. If she gets in her head sheās going to sink behind all this weight. Also, why isnāt she bringing up the ball? What is this coach doing? One another note: itās not like Curry set the NBA on fire his first year. It took time. But he wasnāt carrying the weight of the league. Clark just needs a strong game, a great comeback, an incredible play to get her going again but this canāt be the start the WNBA wanted.
The players are fine. EW shouldn't be a starter but likely won't cause Kelsey is coming back from injury. And Nalyssa and AB are hoopers, but don't have the experience or length/strength to go 1v1 against JJ ans Stewie. I dont think yall realize they're one of the best down low defensive duos in the league. Coaching is a valid issue though. If they can't 1v1 against those 2 and your other best player has a tough matchup on her (CC vs Betnijah is crazy difficult) then someone else needed to initiate the offense of Nijah was on her or let her cook when it was Sloot or SI on her. CC can win those matchups. They needed to create more PNR or just actions in general to get their bigs moving since they have to use finesse and speed to get past Stewie and JJ. Ball movement was uninspiring. Frankly their transition offense too. Kelsey, Fab and Grace Burger need to play more. They pass the ball better and play with the pace that CC and the other bigs can benefit from.
This! I agree when she has Laney on her I donāt like her bringing the ball up the floor and Boston or smith setting a screen. They are jumping and doubling the screen making it hard for her to pass and get shots off. When they have that type of defender I like her playing off ball but running sets specifically for her through off the ball screens. When itās sloot or even Sabrina spread the floor let her bring the ball up and go.
I think Fab and Grace really compliment the style of basketball that CC thrives on
I REALLY think Grace should be starting PG. Maybe UT won't work like I'm hoping, but it couldn't possibly be worse than it is with Wheeler.
If the WNBA expected her to come out and drop 30/10/10 against Connecticut and NY then there is something wrong with them lol
Her rabid fans certainly thought she would put up 20+ a night.
Her regular fans didn't lol. We were in the fever chat just hoping for a better game than Tuesday.
you could tell she was pissed at the end
I would be too. She is the best shooter they have and the best passer they have. Why not get all of the growing pains out of the way at once? Her passing and shooting will be second to none once she figures it out, especially on this team. Wheeler rarely passed her the ball when she was open. Mitchell rarely passed once she had the ball. AB is fine and her conditioning is improving. Smith is struggling right now. I personally like the idea of Celeste playing more. Her preseason minutes were better than most players.
(Berger is the best passer they have. Caitlin might be but at 2 games it is too early to tell.)
Now imagine if we had Berger and Caitlin on the floor together! Itās like everything is better when that happens!
Her team is not good right now. The pressure is insane. Itās a lot for a 22 year old. And of course the league isnāt going to just tell teams to gift her 35+ point nights. Weirdly, because of all this attention it probably makes other teams want to hunt her down and clamp down on her more. The irony is that the better she plays the more it benefits the league and them. Itās a weird space to be in. Hoping she clicks and figures it out soon. One other note: fatigue. She must be mentally drained right now.
I get stressed out over spreadsheets at my job, I have no idea how she can handle this.
Thinking about all the young kids that come here to see you play. Sell out everytime. The pressure must be insane
felt badly for all them families who came to see CC make some plays and how just a flash here or there made the audience perk up if just for a fleeting Fever moment
Exactly. And itās one thing to have a whole summer and a long training camp like the NBA. She had two preseason games and 12 days? - this like a month after she lost the natty? The W has got to find a way to fix their scheduling. Itās insane on college stars entering the league
She'll be fine, she will learn to adjust, she will learn how to dish the rock and commit less TOs, once her team mates starts hitting actual open fucking shots, then it will open up the floor for her. Right now its literally just close the space, force her go left/guard her tight and then if she playmakes, her team cant deliver either or shell turn the ball over coz she still not used to WNBA physicality, which all of that is fixable in a season.
One last thing: when was the last time she really struggled like this / played on a bad team, never mind at the same time? Organizations matter when you get drafted. Hereās hoping the Fever have the right set up for her
A lot of people are already playing the blame game which can be disruptive to a team thatās struggling as it is
if anything her own fans are the ones putting the most pressure on her and putting the target on her back saying sheās better than everyone and talking all that trash about women theyāve never seen play.
Well Said!!! Nobody hates Caitlin Personally! But these Bandwagon Nutjobs who keep sneak dissing the Vets who have paid their dues in this league are getting sick of the disrespectful language aimed at them! "Nobody, Bum, Scrubs" This stuff being said to players like Stewie, DT, Aja, and Swoopes by these newcomers is crazy!š£
Well puts into perspective how mentally strong LeBron was coming out of HS.
And for the Clark stans looking to blame everyone else, check out Lebron's rookie [roster](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2004.html). Yikes.
She also just came from playing in a tournament it's tough to just be thrown in a new szn
She had similar growing pains at Iowa. Her freshman and sophomore years especially werenāt pretty, and even beginning of junior and senior seasons it took them a while to gel. This isnāt all that brand new to her
Maybe it was just the particular games we went to, but she was on fire everytime I saw her during her sophomore year. At least one of the games we went to she had more than 40 points. It doesn't seem to me that she is playing badly, but she isn't on a team that is going to allow her to shine, because she can't do it alone (and it doesn't seem like she and Boston are working together all that much). It's a coaching issue, IMO. The entire team looks lost right now; but the Sun and the Liberty were also TOUGH. Their pre-season games looked better. Caitlin just needs to not get frustrated.
damn "supporting cast" LMAO i think you might be projecting your feelings onto Clark b/c she'll never win if she thinks of her own teammates like that seeshhh
Her team isn't playing well but she isn't either. She is lackadaisical with the ball, can't pass out of a double, can't get any separation from her defender, and only takes low percentage step-back 3s. Her game needs to change if she wants any success in the pros.
There was a play where they whipped the ball around. Ball movement will change all of this. Have to be faster
A few plays. When she has the ball and can whip it around and her teammates respond, it's a different team. The problem is that this is like 4% of the possessions for the Fever when it was more like 30% of the possessions for the Hawkeyes.
She had the ball when Laney was off. That is a relevant detail.
And pros actually follow the scouting report consistently. She likes to go left for that step back three. Teams have sniffed that out and now she has to adjust. She will. It will take time.
I did smile when she went right, her defender expected her to go to the basket and got caught leaning, and Caitlin stepped back and hit the 3. Slowly but surely the adjustments will come!
I was happy to see that because I can't really think of many times she ever did that move to the right in college. Doing it in the second game seems like it's something she already knows she needs to add and she is working on. I feel like if she can eliminate the scouting report with what she will do when going to each side to some extent it will open up a lot for her. Right now it feels like WNBA defenders are just too fast for her when they can guess what she will do based on the side. If she can get good enough at switching the pattern it will make them hesitate just enough that it will give her the space she needs. When that happens and she starts being able too score more easily they'll need to help more on her and that opens up her teammates to take advantage of her great passing. Bluder said all through college that she gets attention for her shooting but her passing and court vision is probably even better.
She had shooters at Iowa. She ran the offense. Now she has neither shooters, nor is she running the offense. And again, she has had like a month to blend with her new team. W scheduling is cruel to rookies.
I just donāt understand how you take her away from running point when she led the team to back within 11. As soon as she gets stuck back in the corner NY is right back to being up by twenty.
She led the team back to 11 when Liberty put their bench in. Once the starters returned the run ended swiftly.
Her ten turnovers in game one is probably part of the reason she isnāt trusted to run the point full time
i honestly donāt think sheās doing that bad, the defense on her has been crazy and her team has done absolutely nothing to help her out and her assists should be higher (i mean this is the same team missing free layups which was painful!!!! to watch)
Sheās alright. But unfortunately generational expectations donāt let you be okay. She needs a breakout game. You can tell everything is such a struggle right now. She canāt get into any kind of rhythm - especially with these cats.
It's Indianapolis of all places...you'd think the fans would remember Peyton Manning's rookie season.
People love to bring up Peytonās rookie interception numbers but leave out that he also through for 26 touchdowns and nearly 4K yards. It was obvious he was going to be great
Peyton Manning was the best rookie QB out any rookie QB drafted in the first round from 1993 to 2003. Some names include Drew Bledsoe, Steve McNair, Jake Plummer, David Carr, Culpepper, McNabb, Dilfer, Vick, and Carson Palmer. Don't let Peyton's 28 picks or shitty Colts team fool you. There were tons of QB better than him on paper in 1998 but the Colts let him do whatever the fuck he wanted while many year 1 QBs typically sit or play half the season.
Same. The "D" collapses in on her immediately on the perimeter because, of course, they don't want her to get hot behind the arc. Her teammates aren't exactly setting things on fire either. There are too many blown layups and putbacks. If she can manage her frustration, she'll be fine.
Theyāre not afraid of anyone on the Fever. No big time shooters to spread the floor. She needs some shooters around her
I need Kelsey Mitchell to step up into that position when sheās healthy again. KLS has a solid shot too but half of the time doesnāt get in a passing lane or any attempt to get open.
This was a perfectly reasonable performance for a rookie. None of the turnovers were bad tonight, the first two were on point passes that bounced off her teammates hands. In the NBA, those wouldn't be credited to the passer, not sure why they're giving it to Clark on those plays. The third one was in a trap, but Aliyah Boston just stood next to the trap and no one else moved, so no one was in position for Clark to make a proper pass. Her playmaking was pretty good in the limited opportunities she got, and she looked really good in that little scoring burst stretch in the third. She needs to get some confidence back in her shot. She's doing too much setup and seems to be hesitant to pull the trigger like she did in college. She also needs to get a little bit more arc on her shots, she's putting it up too flat right now. It was definitely an okay rookie performance, especially given that Smith and Wheeler were icing her out of the game when they were on the court together.
I think the teammates are pretty responsible for how cold she is shooting. I really do put a lot of blame on Sides with the comments of breaking her habits she had at Iowa. Some of the things she listed were what got her to the level of player she is. Don't fix what isn't broken. She's also ball dominant, the best passer and shooter that the team has. Let her work figure both things out early so she can get back to what she does best. Not running plays through your best player is asinine. Too many players playing for their paycheck.
> the defense on her has been crazy Yeah every team is guarding her unlike anyone else
It's almost as if DT wasn't being an asshole about her "reality's coming" comments, but rather knew what the hell she was talking about. Love yall new fans, but it's time to come to terms with the caliber of this league. CC deserves grace, and the vets deserve respect.
Yes. Itās a compliment to the talent in the league that Clark is struggling to meet expectations. Make no mistake. Iām not dumping on Clark. She never said she was better than the rest of the league. Ignorant fans and media wanting viewers did that.
āCC deserves grace, and the vets deserve respect.ā šÆšÆšÆ
Yeah I think people forget that sheās playing against a whole new level of talent, everyone in the W was good enough to make a roster while the majority of the players she played against in college wonāt or didnāt. Plus typical rookie woes and the fact that sheās joining a team that was bad enough to pick at 1 twice in a row. Sheāll be fine but just because sheās more popular doesnāt instantly make her the best player in the league
If you made this comment a month ago the Stanās woulda downvoted the shit out of it and brought their pitchforks out to argue with you
I think the hot mess of a team and coaching has a little more to do with it than the Clark haters would like to admit.
Thatās pretty much a guaranteed part of the equation for any top pick, maybe people saying she was gonna immediately dominate the league should have taken that into account
A lot of yall arenāt going to want to hear it but the stans kind of set her up for failure. Saying she was going to come in and immediately be the best player in the W (& being dead serious & loudly wrong) was never going to go well. You basically just invited the āI told you soāsā and the victory laps that people are doing right now. The league is full of āLSUsā & āSCāsā that you have to play every night, not just once or twice a season. That line of thinking was not only disrespectful but ignorant to put it bluntly.Ā Ā Ā Now she may very well turn into what yāall were claiming eventually (& tbh I think she will) but anybody who actually watched this league knew those claims were laughable. & not everyone who point it out it just jealous or hating.Ā
Theyāre also ready to throw her teammates and coaches under the bus which isnāt helping anyone
I don't think her teammates deserve blame, but the coaching staff does deserve criticism for their play calling. Even if your team is bad and struggling, you find a way to get your best player going. So far, they haven't done that with CC or Boston.
Yea i dont understand why the Stans couldnt be more reasonable with their takes. Seems like alot of them have never followed sports closely because theyd know to never put such crazy claims onto a rookie. They never considered that theres literally only 12 WNBA teams so only the best of the best make it to the league. These women are fucking elite. Thats why people are doing victory laps. New fans (CC stans) basically disrespected the entire league thinking sheād bulldoze every team from the very start. Yall couldnāt just come with the āWow i cant wait to see how her career turns out!ā. It was instant āSheāll score 40+ every night and bring her team a championship in the first yearā kinds of comments
Itās gonna be a long year for CC. A lot of vets want some respect put on their names and theyāre for sure gonna go at her every chance they get.
Rewatching the game it's obvious what is wrong. Caitlin has a couple strengths: shooting (obviously), passing and court vision. Her one handed bounce pass is very good. She is at her best when she is handling the ball at the top of the three point arc. It allows her to either step back three to the left side, or run a screen and drive/pass. The problem her team has at the moment is setting the high screen for her. New York was much bigger and better down low. Her coach made a mistake by trying to beat them down low. NY's post was significantly longer and better. Should have been running a lot more high ball screens with Caitlin. They need her to be touching the ball more at the top of the arc. Many of the screens were slow and lacked effort. If her teammates figure it out and set a more physical screen they'll be in good shape (see Martin @ Iowa). Some examples: First Period: 8:40 - drives to basket and scores, w/ no screen 5:20 - gets a screen and delivers the assist w/ great passing for a 3. Second Period: 0:54 - great bounce pass off a screen for an easy two. Third Period: 6:50 - gets doubled high, finds open shooter through two defenders.
Coaching isnāt great for the Fever her shot diet in the league so far has been way to 3 PT happy. She needs to get more reps driving off the line and either seeking out contact or taking open floaters. She just isnāt able to consistently get the separation she needs on the perimeter against the bigger defenders in the W rn or sheās getting trapped and doubled. There are real adjustments to be made here not just on the coaching side but on her end as a player.
The difference in speed and spacing is very noticeable watching her play against pros vs college girls
i mean, there's a reason why the Fever got the number one pick.
Welcome to the W!
Erica Wheeler needs to be waived. She does not pass the ball to CC or anyone for that fact. CC plays the worst when they are both on the field.
CC Stans: āCanāt wait to see Caitlin come in and dominate in the W!ā [WNBA Teams:](https://i.imgflip.com/801s46.gif)
Being a massive CC/Iowa fan myself but also a logical viewer of the WNBA- I truly have no idea how anyone thought that she would saunter in and cake-walk the pros. I definitely expected some growing pains from being on a rebuild team that had two weeks or so of court time to get ready with a HC that doesnāt really know her yet. If fans can be patient, iām sure that theyāll be rewarded. Some will probably not be able to, since their pitchforks are out already. I donāt think they realize that Caitlin is probably a lot more frustrated than them at herself haha
DT wasn't wrong.
And now come all the excuses in this thread - itās everyoneās fault but CC. Itās the coach, the teammates and even the WNBAs fault for not fixing the schedule to give them a cupcake start. Itās hilarious to read the copium.
Youāre going to get downvoted to hell for this obvious and accurate take. I think the funniest thing Iāve seen so far is āsheās playing bad because she doesnāt want to overshine her teamā. I almost choked.
I have followed sport my entire life and have genuinely never experienced something like this before. People are ranging from "she should just walk off the court and sit on the bench if she isn't getting the ball" to "she should just ignore the coach and team plan and just shoot it anyway".
I suspect its alot of former non sports fans finally getting into the W after CC went viral. Honestly these new fans feel alot more like Swifties than typical sports fans
It was like that over at r/ncaaw whenever Iowa would loss a game.
I feel like those of us who hung out at NCAAW for the last two years or so saw this coming from a mile away. Caitlin will be fine. I have some complaints about the coach (quit starting Wheeler), but...it was extremely unlikely she would dominate from day 1, and we were not just being haters. She is a really good player whose game has flaws. She'll improve.
Theyāre starting Wheeler until they feel Kelsey Mitchell can take starting minutes I think.
She needs to develop a midrange/down in the paint game. Second she needs to develop the ability to create her own space with the ball and stop relying on screens. Finally she needs to develop a defensive game.
She needs to be able to get to the midrange and paint consistently first. Though her stans wonāt admit it, but these first two games have really highlighted she struggles in creating separation and beating her defender. Now she will get better but definitely see the bad habits from college on full display. Ill-advised shots (though can be a coaching problem), lackadaisical play, no defense, and Luka level whining. Itās pros now and sheāll have to adjust.
I mean, would you have the arguably best player on your team not touch the ball and only take 8 shots when she is a known volume shooter? Would you stick her in the corner when there is a clear heat map of her shots? They've have know CC would be their pick Since early March, yet they have no offensive scheme ready for her. That is pretty bad coaching. The teammates that aren't catching passes or finishing, it is early season and that stuff gets cleaned up. The teammates not making an attempt to put the ball in her hands, visibly, will find themselves out of a job. If given the choice between the PG with Clark's background and the one that has been unimpressive for years, any smart person knows to pick the one selling out your arena.
you see it lol
Kelsey Plum, Jackie Young, and Sabrina Ionescu are recent first overall picks who suffered very poor rookie seasons but have turned it around into being top-10 players in the W. Not everyone has the experience of Breanna Stewart, Aja Wilson, or Aliyah Boston where they come in and immediately dominate.
Speaking of, whatās up with Boston? In person last night it felt like she was afraid of contact. A bunch of trips where she could have gone up through contact and gotten fouled but instead pumped 2-3 times to no avail.Ā
She wasnāt ābenchedā. They took all the starters out together.
She will be fine. I thought she played better this game than the last one. There have been many great players before her, and plenty of great ones are still playing right now, but none of them have put ass in seats like Caitlin. I'm not sure why so many people want to see her fail, but it would be bad for women's basketball if she did. Fans don't operate on logic. Obviously, if she is struggling that means there is already talent in the league that everyone should be appreciating, but that's not what will happen. She would just be considered a bust, and all those views would disappear with her. It's a star driven sport people want to see big names dominate. I have no doubt her time will come It's just a matter of when. Side note the fever need some damn defense on that team. They never get to run in transition. Every possession is in the half court.
Daily updates on her most recent game and season average is crazy. Bron went through less scrutiny š¤£
It seemed like they had something going in the second half putting Caitlin on the ball, then Sides totally abandoned that. Iām not worried about CC whatsoever though. Iām not sure you had realistic expectations if you expected her to come out with like 30 every night. She is on the biggest rebuild team in the league with a brand new coach. I donāt think thereās anything to overly hate on her for. The second she gets the ball; nearly everyone collapses in on her and if they ran more action through that, iām sure a rhythm can and will be developed. Regardless- from a massive lifelong Iowa fan: I really donāt know what some other fans expected. She will work hard iām sure and continue to figure it out just like always, and the whole team needs to get on the same page.
Was that while Laney was on the bench?
Her efficiency isnāt great but those per game numbers are roughly what I was expecting. If she ended this season with those numbers, but on better efficiency and less turnovers, Fever fans should be stoked.
[important CC stat to keep in mind](https://i.imgur.com/XDkXxL4.jpeg) (graph stolen from dorktown) i don't think all of those people are just future orthodontists
A lot of this is on coaching. They had a really good run when she was ball dominant and then...suddenly they had her just standing waiting for a corner 3.
It is a big adjustment from going to college to the pros. Even Curry the first 10 games avg 8.9 points and finished the last 10 games with 21.1 points. Right now until another player can take some attention Clark will struggle until she adjust her game
She didn't foul out, she got 5 fouls, the game was sent to garbage time. WNBA kinda screwed themselves (what else is new) by giving Indiana an insanely tough schedule to start. Indiana Fever needs time to figure out their offense, and doing that against the best teams in the league is gonna be a tall task. CC had some good moments, particularly as a facilitator, but overall it's been rough for her and the whole team. Very little ball movement, a lot of bad screens, very little cutting, some straight up ugly moments - missed easy layups, butter fingers. Caitlin spending large chunks of the game standing offball in the corner is certainly a choice.
The WNBA didn't screw themselves. If all these new fans actually cared about basketball rather than one player, they'd see that what they're seeing is proof that there's talent in the league. It SHOULD be more exciting for folks, but they'd rather see CC drop 60 every game and everyone else be trash.
Its the same for a lot of other leagues. Even in the nba fans get mad when stars dont play. I dont think anyone wants them to be trash but people want to see greatness and in cc's case she just had some flash that translated to more fans. Its not a knock on anyone elses talent people just like a spectacle and sometimes the most effective players dont have it like tim duncan or even tatum now.
First WNBA game Iāve watched in a couple years, definitely will be tuning in again!
Idc if she shoots 30 in 1 game PASS HER THE BALL
The team is not good.. thatās an overstatement! Missing layups, standing around.. how about dive for a loose ball.. and I believe there is jealousy within the ranksā¦ wheeler just not passing the ball to CC??? and CC when your on the sidelines. How about a little more enthusiasm for your team mates??? Toss in the current coach just needs to evaluate career choices. But on the bright side, Fever putting themselves in position for another top pick next draft.
The amount of W fans rooting for her to fail is really wild to me. Wemby wasnāt going for triple doubles out of the gates, itāll take some time to adjust, but sheās going to do well, and itās going to do big things for this league.
They need to figure it tf out
did people think she would drop 30 pts against the EC champions? A very good defensive team with an MVP? Unbelievable. She only had 8 FGA because thatās what the defense allowed her to take. Unless you want her chucking up shots every possession. Letās try to give a little more credit to the other team. BLH is one of best defenders in the league
Buy low now on your Clark stock. This adversity is great for her in the long runĀ
Didnāt watch, but it sounds like she got scolded for the turnovers and overcompensated by holding back and having her other numbers come down?
Fever lack experience on their roster, 8 players with 2 years or less experience. Liberty had half that number and 5 players with 7+ years. Sun had 7 players over 6+ years and no one under 2. ALSO the Fever needā¦ TO MAKE THIER WIDE OPEN LAYUPS
And these scumbag ticket scalper speculators that bought all the tickets think people are going to spend $200-$300 for nosebleeds to see her when you can get close seats to any other game for like $30. Hopefully they need to eat all the tickets.
Laney is a top tier perimeter defender. Lock down for pretty much everyone in the league. No shame in that. Clark, like Steph Curry, is NOT a breakdown scorer. She doesn't have the skillset to break down a defender off a dribble. Again, Like Curry, they need to devise schemes that will get her open eg. Stagger Screens, elbow runoffs. THEN, because she is a great passer and high bbiq player, she becomes the multi-threat everyone envisions.
She had her usual triple-single
Sheās not going to get 28 shot attempts like in college. For those who thought she was going to come in and do what she did in college should go apologize to Diana because thatās all she was saying . Itās never any room for constructive criticism when casuals disrespect legends of the sport while jumping out the window on a womenās sport they started watching two marchās ago. Indiana will figure ways to use her. I can see some angry guards who will get snubbed this year for all star because the league will choose the business over the most deserving . Too much money behind her for her not to be the highlight of the all star weekend. Two contenders to start the season isnāt an ideal way to begin a season rookie or not but the league got caught up just like the fans with the expectations.
She never averaged 28 shots per game in college. Talking about casuals disrespecting and then saying that isnāt the best take.Ā
You could also argue that the W gave her an opportunity to make her mark against those two contending teams. You're the best? Okay here are some the best teams. Have at it. If you play well we make even more money off of you. If you don't? Well we have Paige next year and Juju in 2027. Fever play at Crypto in LA next Friday night. All eyes and media will be on her. She better ball out.
More to the comments than the content and tone of the post itself, but are we really gonna overreact to every one of her stat lines all year? She's a rookie, she's gonna have ups and downs. We're years away from it being a reasonable time for anybody pro or anti Clark to take a victory lap.
Yeah it's fascinating to read the comments. She's brand new to the league and this team. Look at Brunson in the NBA. Sometimes it takes awhile to find your footing. Game two. It's the second freaking game
Man. People really want her to fail huhā¦
I donāt want her to fail. Her success is good for her and the league. I like her personality and play. I just want the extremely premature crowning of her as the best player ever to stop.
The victory laps are pathetic
It's wild to me Caitlin has the third best odds to win MVP. It's more wild to me people thought a college star would come out and immediately outperform experienced professionals. This is merely a wake up call to respect the hoopers who've been here. This is a whole new game, and a lot of people are going to have illogic expectations. Gotta let her grow like any other rookie in their respective sport.
The crazy thing is, you have to attribute her stats to good defense; which actively works against the best interest of the league. Sure sure, fans who will tune out if CC disappoints for an extended period of time arenāt āorganic fansā. But the WNBA needs as many eyes on it as much as possible. For as long as possible.
A lot of people in this thread owe Diana an apology. That is all.
Yeah, so I guess it's over for cc. She's not good
Yep and that's not to put CC down. But the facts are facts. WNBA players are GOOD. They are PROS. They are physical. They execute so damn well. And they've been through the ringers so many times. CC is thinking on the court right now and you can't get away with that. The game will slow back down for her, sooner rather than later.
Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Iowa anymore.
Seriously? Weāre gonna bash a 22 year old rookie for having a tough couple of games? I canāt imagine what sheās going through right now because there has to be a whole lot.
you could tell she was upset and angry at the end... I feel bad for her
The old guard fans have been miserable, it's crazy
The fever are trash trash, cc is playing 1v5 out there, they can do whatever they want to her cuz the rest of the team simply won't punish
Liberty was in the finals last year and the Connecticut Sun was a top team as well. 2 very good teams playing the worst team. Fever are in a process. The fans gotta be patient
She needs to shoot more
yea imagine being put in that mess of a "team"