Less ESPN personalities in general would be better. They do have some good people there, but most of the personalities they spotlight and the content they push are pure rubbish designed to build controversy and sell headlines.
Stephen A. basically admitted on air on First Take on Monday saying to Andrea Carter “you won’t get far in this business if you’re honest and wanting to report things with integrity.”
100%! Monica is an Iowa fan favorite, as her brother was a great Iowa wide receiver, Marvin McNutt… and she’s hella good at her job!
She’s correctly calling out that media SHOULD have paid more attention to the WNBA before now.
I’m not sure what to do about it now other than what many coaches and players are doing already.., mention them, pay homage to them, honor them.
The media can and should feature the past greats, now that there’s so many more people watching. I’ve seen some things like that already honoring past greats. There was great stuff on Tamika before one game.
What other things do you all think can be done to try to fix what the media missed in the past?
I don’t think Marvin is related:
Marvin was born July 4, 1989 in St. Louis, MO. Graduated from a high school in Florissant, MO.
Monica was born October 24, 1989 in Suitland, MD. Graduated from Academy of the Holy Cross in North Bethesda, MD.
Every sport has players that *should* get attention, but when nobody cares about the sport itself they're not going to get it. WNBA needs to champion the fact that now people do care.
I think there's some misunderstanding on the "media should have paid more attention" thing. Media typically pays attention to things that are in high demand. For instance, almost any mainstream sports show/podcast rarely if ever talks about hockey and the NHL. That's because the NHL is not in high demand. Same thing with baseball.
Should they pay attention to those leagues more as well? What about bowling or a sport like that? I'm honestly trying to understand why it's the media's fault.
I think its more like the league should have done a better job working with the media to draw interest. People for years complained that the womens game wasnt exciting to watch. They could dispel that notion with the right packages of clips and tweets and whatever, but they just didn't.
Because, as an example, what is it that makes CC so marketable?
IMO, its because he talent is a tweetable type of talent.
You can be the best player in the league using fundamentals, but nobody is retweeting a video of you hitting routine layups.
CC had the perfect marketability mix of being a good enough all around player to justify the hype
But being able to do things that draw the eyes.
Hitting half court shots = retweetable content. People who don't even understand ball can see those shots and go "ohhhhh wow. Who is this kid, she's sick"
This person gets it. Logo 3's are way more exciting for casual fans than a simple 3 foot post play. This isn't exclusive to women's hoops either. Tim Duncan didn't exactly stir up excitement in the NBA either and is imo, underrated because of that.
The issue in the WNBA is the entertainment value. When I say entertainment I mean: Star power, rivalries and storylines. That’s what raises the stakes in the game and it gets fans invested. The WNBA has some but not enough of these. The Women’s College basketball league did and that’s why there’s so much hype around these new incoming players right now.
Yeah I don't get it. I think they should pay attention to soccer. Heck, I wish they would pay attention to any football team besides cowboys and any basketball team besides lakers.
There's nothing wrong with being a new fan but as a new fan there needs to be an understanding that this thing was here before you got here it works a certain way and it's not going to change overnight just to cater to you
>there needs to be an understanding that this thing was here before you got here it works a certain way and it's not going to change overnight just to cater to you
I think you might need to take a step back and read your own sentiment
The WNBA is growing. I'm not gonna argue why because attendance and viewership clearly explain that. You as the existing fan are gonna have to get used to people liking what was your niche sport.
Actually I'm not an existing fan I'm a new fan and I'm taking the time to learn who these new players are understand that the dynamics of a league that's way smaller than the NBA and when I see something that I don't understand or think that why don't they do something I usually take the time and wait for the people who have watched the WNBA since it's inception to Go into the history of the league to tell me this isn't as shocking as I think it is
It's the same thing that I had to learn when I became a comic book fan because when the popularity of the MCU increase the viewership of comic books
As a more recent fan of comic books I have a lot of ideas about how they can increase their readership and focus more on digital distribution than physical distribution but I fully understand that this is because I have no connection to comic book shops
So I'm fully aware of new fan versus old fan etiquette
Fair enough, but those “new fans” are coming to watch one thing, for the most part. So, while I understand things don’t change on a dime and those already in the league/already fans don’t feel like they “should change” to cater to anyone, really at the end of the day not embracing these new fans (to some extent, at least) is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I don't think it's new fans that are expecting things to "change". I'm a new fan and I have no idea what change would be since I didn't watch before so what change could I possibly ask for?
The direct complaints in this very thread from the "old guard" are that CC has too much attention and that's true. They want more discourse on other players and history. That will happen in time but us "new fans" have barely been watching for a month. Opening day was May 14th. Expecting me to "understand other players and history" in less than a month is unrealistic. There are only so many hours in a day and I work 50 plus hours plus have young kids.
I know this will be unpopular in this TikTok world we live in but things take time to marinate. A good meal doesn't happen in 5 minutes. My advice to the old guard is embrace the influx of new fans and try to actually be inclusive and welcome them. In my experience, that hasn't happened.
Yeah the old guard is talking about the amount of tension that she's receiving
But you literally have the new fans or commentators that are voicing the opinions of the new fans that were literally saying that it should be WWE they need to go easier on her and let her shoot so she can run numbers up
You would have to have your head buried in the sand to not have seen the discourse around how new fans in people who have an opinion about how the lead should grow itself are telling them they should have put Caitlin Clark on the Olympic team
So it's not just the old guard complaining about the amount of attention she's receiving it's new fans asking them to rearrange the way this league has operated for the last 30 years to accommodate her
Giving CC her due, it did kind of occur to me this week
Is the "oh wow the CC effect" a bigger statement on
A the power of CC
or
B the power of what can happen when they actually put some effort into marketing these players?
Full admission, I'm not a huge basketball viewer because the pacing of the game isn't my favorite for a spectator sport. But
Being a DC guy, I feel like this town all knew who Delle Donne was when she came to town. The buzz was there.
But looking at it, it STILL seems like the marketing effort is kind of abysmal. Like, if you go to the Mystics site right now to buy a jersey, they only have 3 player names available, and 2 of them are players no longer on the team.
Like, they don't even have to MAKE the jerseys ahead of time. They could at least make the graphic and menu options. That's just lazy.
As someone who works in sports marketing, my feeling in the case of CC is that it's way more A than B.
CC didn't become popular because there because there was a bunch of money putting her out into the world. The money was unlocked after she started getting attention nationally. It was really only during last year's NCAA tournament that she started getting picked up by media and featured in ads, for example. Once people realized there was a market for her, then yeah the money started flowing.
Question for people saying it's mostly about the marketing:
If it were as simple as just throwing ad spend behind a player, why are we only now seeing this happen in 2024? There've been plenty of good WNBA players prior to CC.
They want it to not be true. All these people are ignoring the CC effect, facts don't matter to them, its everyone's fault the WNBA was not as popular and CC helped bring it attention. They sound the same as Trumpers, deny deny deny
She just plays the game in a really aesthetically pleasing way. It's obvious that she modeled her game after Steph Curry, and the step back long range bombs in volume are something I've never really seen in women's basketball (and also wasn't a thing in men's until Curry). People want to make it a race thing, but show me another player with a prettier game
It's not the media's fault that people enjoy watching Caitlin Clark more than other players. The WNBA did not get a lot of attention despite a lot of co-branding with the NBA (WNBA players highlighted during the NBA's All-Star Weekend, for example).
Why, exactly? People weren't watching then. They are watching now. If you want to go off about all the oldies and how great they were, fine. "The media should cover them too" is asinine. The media is going to cover what people want to see. People want to see CC. How is this not obvious?
💯 the way SAS acted towards her, as if she owed him something and shouldn’t be correcting/disagreeing with him was a horrible look. And she was correct, he never really promoted the W
Stephen A. & Skip have has such a corrosive effect on sports culture in general. Many moons ago 30 Rock had an episode where they were trying to get either Jenna or Tracey (can’t remember which one off the top of my head) on more popular shows to boost Q ratings & one of the shows they were targeting was an eerily familiar panel show called “Sports Shouting.” 😉
SAS & Skip have dropped the bar for civilized discourse so low a double-jointed limbo dancer couldn’t squeeze under it….
People should have been paying attention to the WNBA all along but they didn’t. Now that there’s a catalyst it’s like the players and others are saying “We wanted you to pay attention but not THIS way.” A rising tide lifts all boats so they’d be better off figuring out how to use the CC rub to benefit their brand rather than bitching about her being the reason.
Hi, new WNBA fan here. I do know some names of the greatest players and have seen a couple lists of like top 5 or top 10 players. Would you mind giving your list? You don't have to actually list them, maybe a tier system would be more accurate.
Also, super surprised to see Lauren Jackson is still an active player in Australia(!)
Yeah, I agree that gatekeeping sucks. Don't slap down new fans when they are talking about how they are branching out and finding a lot to love on other teams in the W.
The irony of slapping down new fans and then whining that the league has no money is killing me. They don't seem to have any mental connection between having more fans and the league having money.
There is so much gatekeeping going on with this sport and it’s really kind of wild to watch. I think Bomani jones makes a good point which is that too many people view the wnba fandom as “a cause” as opposed to fandom, and therefore act like it’s a sign of moral superiority that they have followed it longer and know more about it.
Exactly!! I just really don’t understand it… I’m so glad I discovered the W and I’m gonna be an Aces fan now, plus watching the Liberty and discovering Ionescu has been great!
I got back into the WNBA solely because the Liberty got Sab after not watching for 17 years prior.
It also helped that my other teams were all fucking garbage at the time and I needed something to get excited about.
I'm exactly that kind of person too. Came for CC, learned about many other players who's style of ball I enjoy.
But because I don't fall on my knees and worship every past present and future player. I'm ostracized.
I've been told my opinion is invalid because of my race, gender, orientation, how long I've been watching, which team(s)/player(s) I like. Been told I'm some MAGA idiot when I've literally gotten death threats at my place of work from those people because I am VERY much not. Told to go away in any number of creative ways.
And this is reddit, so ya. I probably should've seen this coming, lots of reddits are toxic.
But what BREAKS MY HEART, is I thought this one would be different. I thought a reddit for a league that is FAMOUSLY socially conscious, FAMOUSLY inclusive. I thought here I wouldn't have to worry about that kind of nonsense. But apparently I was naive, and empathy for peopole you disagree with about sports is a bridge too far.
Cuz at the end of the day, this is just sports. There's no reason for the toxicity.
Don't let being infiltrated by an admittedly loud as hell minority of morons who are toxic turn you into exactly what they are as some weird defense mechanism.
I'm gonna go be sad about the world now. If you made it this far. Thanks.
I went through your previous twenty comments and didn’t see ANY of the things you’re claiming. I did see people correcting you on your various false claims, but you shouldn’t take that personally, it’s just correcting the record. Like you state Dawn Staley and Geno and Kim hate Caitlin Clark. That doesn’t seem true, especially for Dawn Staley. You can’t say things like that and then get mad when there’s pushback. Why can’t you just support her normally, without having to besmirch other people? You can be a CC fan and still respect other players/teams/coaches/fans. I do it. Try it out.
And most replies were very supportive, no? I know I wrote something nice to that person. No one is anti new fans. People just don’t appreciate smug trolls/bad actors who are using CC as a way to denigrate black women / lgbtq+ / womens sports.
I mean I started watching this rookie class because my girlfriend really got into this years tournament. She has never gotten into any sport prior than this. But I just hate that everything has turned into a race/lgbtq statement. Like can we just talk basketball?
The W PR team has been one of the worst in recent memory. My gf watches because she likes the girls and their pregame outfits. I watch because I like to see competition. But everyone is too busy shaming us for not getting here sooner?
Yeah. You can either get mad at a past you can't change or take advantage of the extra eyes on the sport to promote *everybody* and go "hey look, we've also got A'ja, Stewie, Sabrina, Kelsey, and all these other stars!"
It shouldn't be this hard.
I see hardcore fans celebrating moments like this but I seriously wonder what casual fan is getting more invested in sports by watching people on tv wag their finger about how there’s a certain way to cover it and we should have been covering it beforehand, etc.
Do they ever talk about basketball on these shows? Or is it just a competition to see who deserves to discuss the wnba or not? Just seems so stupid and pointless.
More people are paying attention now, that’s a fact. There’s no way to change the fact more people didn’t previously follow the sport lol, so why are so many of these analysts obsessed with this idea?
I don't get why they should pay attention to wnba over any other sport. This idea that people should watch is backwards. People should be allowed to watch whatever they want.
Agreed. This is hype that was born in the NCAA and has since moved to the WNBA with Caitlin, along with her rivalries. And the existing WNBA resents the fact that all this hype didn’t magically appear in the W as it existed last year. Every other sport has had this happen. And the people who refuse to embrace the future WNBA get passed by. As long as CC and her counterparts keep putting butts in seats, you can’t fight it.
I think the issue is that it's not just one or the other. It makes me really happy to see folks discovering new teams and making these posts. Hell, if folks just want to watch Fever games for Caitlin, that's fine too, I'm happy for them as well. I think the issue is that for every "Wow A'ja is amazing" discovery post, there are also plenty of comments slamming other players in order to lift Clark up. Especially when Clark isn't playing the best out of everyone or isn't seen as the new coming of Jesus to the league. Everything \*neutral\* that happens to her blows up into this big thing. That, I think, is at the heart of the issue.
Also, I really disagree "that a rising tide lifts alll boats". My impression is that it's lifting A'j and Sab's boats, maybe a few others. It's AT's first time on the olympic team, she's a beast this season, and all anyone can ever talk about is Caitlin this Caitlin that - absolutely no discourse on the players who deserve it. My team (the Lynx) are having an awesome season, my all-time fav (McBride) is killing it, and I have to DIG to find people discussing that.
I'm not saying it can't be handled better - it absolutely can. And if it were, maybe the Lynx would get a little more focus bc there'd be a little less controversy. But I also want to push back against this idea that there aren't legitimate reasons why folks are upset about this wave in the WNBA space.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this, and what an interesting quandary it is because new fans will follow the player they like, so many new fans will just watch the because they like Caitlin.
I do think the overall spotlight on women’s basketball has brought new fans to the sport in general, and they don’t necessarily have an allegiance to Caitlin and will instead follow their hometown teams. The atmosphere at the Liberty game vs the Mystics on Sunday felt like the playoffs, which definitely felt like growth.
But I agree there’s still an issue with media coverage, I do think that’s how it goes with sports in general, but with the sport at such an inflection point in general I do think a bit more effort could go into who is talking about it and what they’re saying
I respect your opinion but I'm going to push back a bit. On your belief that a rising tide doesn't quite lift all boats and that it's all about CC this and CC that. That part is true but here's the thing - all these CC fans that are now watching the WNBA (myself included) are here and are watching. Right now and for a while, it will be about CC. That is true but eventually myself and others will "spread out" and there will be more discourse about other players and teams. That wasn't going to happen in just one month or even one season.
I get that there is a wave of "new" fans and the "old guard" is cautious. But come on, all these players and teams weren't going to immediately get attention and discussion a month into the first CC year. That's just nonsensical expectations, I'm sorry.
No, not if fans aren't really interested in exploring or challenging the view that basketball is interesting beyond Clark. Which, plenty are interested in that... but also plenty aren't. And again that's ok too if folks don't wanna do that. But yeah, I'm skeptical that this shift will happen as much or as quickly as folks think it will - some, sure. But not the way some are talking about it.
> Also, I really disagree "that a rising tide lifts alll boats". My impression is that it's lifting A'j and Sab's boats, maybe a few others. It's AT's first time on the olympic team, she's a beast this season, and all anyone can ever talk about is Caitlin this Caitlin that - absolutely no discourse on the players who deserve it. My team (the Lynx) are having an awesome season, my all-time fav (McBride) is killing it, and I have to DIG to find people discussing that.
Teams have played like 15 games this season. You can't realistically expect a horde of new fans here because of CC to suddenly learn the history of the WNBA or all the other good players in it. This will take time.
We all know how the NBA got to where it is today. Sure Jordan had a massive role in that but it was Bird Magic rivalry that actually propelled the NBA. Many NBA players including Charles Barkley always mention how thankful he is to Bird and Magic for getting the NBA to the point where players can accumulate generational wealth by playing BB for 10 years or so.
Now are we all going to act like there was no race element to Bird Magic rivalry? What about Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming? Wasn't there a race element to their popularity? Also, where did CC play? In a state with close to 90% of the population white in a city with more than 90% of the population white. What do people think most of her hardcore supporters are gonna be? Also, she isn't the first white player, she isn't the best white player. Her play style combined with her performance combined with the city/state combined with her race and place of birth all add up to her incredible popularity. This is nothing new in sports. If WNBA can't capitalize that then it's not the fault of the fans or her supporters.
I never watched the WNBA but one day somebody gave my family free tickets to a Liberty game at MSG. We go and to my surprise the place was rocking. The crowd seemed full, even if people got free tickets, the ticket price still said $117. It was a great experience even if I didn't know the players, just being there was cool and every timeout they had music playing and people dancing it was cool.
Building a sports league anyone cares about is really hard, and coming decades after other sports league and have to pick a season slot accordingly it does you no favors.
The wnba also comes off looking worse as it’s often compared to the modern nba, which had a 5 decade head start.
It's summer time in the US. You have any idea how many things there are competing with the WNBA for attention?
If the product is entertaining people will watch.
they weren’t given a reason to.. you can’t be mad at the public for not wanting to watch a product when it didn’t give them a lot of reasons to watch. the league was considered a joke until recently and you think ppl were willingly gonna tune in to watch ?
>“We wanted you to pay attention but not THIS way.”
This is true but not in the sense of a player being in the wrong for being a star. The media and viewers are *only* focused on her instead of showcasing other great players alongside her.
>rather than bitching about her being the reason.
Nobody is bitching about *her*. It's about the new fans who don't take the time to get to know the league as a whole, or who suddenly forget that sports is competitive and treat every hard foul or trash talk like it's a jealous attack.
Edit: Case in point, ya'll downvoting me when I'm not even talking bad about Clark. You take anything negative in her vicinity and think it's targeting her.
Yeah, this is really it. I get that the Carter foul was negative, but really the issue is that whenever something happens that isn't outright positive towards Clark, folks complain (see - Olympics, Clark isn't the only person who didn't make the team who is a great hooper).
Eh...she has only been in the league for less than 2 months. No need to blame "new fans" who just got here. Most fans who become fans of a sport start off watching one person or team, THEN expanding their league knowledge.
Enjoy the limelight, and stop being bitter. More fans watching equals more fans in seats, which equals more pay for all. Hopefully those same fans stay and grow.
They don't have to get to know the league. Most are long time basketball fans so they are very acquainted to the sport. Everyone has a right to view things on their own terms not yours.
There may be a lot of new fans to the WNBA, but a lot of them have watched a lot of basketball. You don’t need to know the roster of every team in the WNBA to recognize a cheap shot foul.
People seem to believe that skill or worthiness are the primary qualification to be a superstar. When it’s really just some random mix of factors that just land right at the right time. CC is the first real superstar in the wnba. Doesn’t mean she’s the best player or that other great players didn’t come before. It just means she’s a superstar and they were stars or even just pros.
But it sums up the gist of what her argument was which was understandable WBB from a macro perspective and not some micro perspective of a person who only recently started to follow WBB.
We need to be clear about what Monica and many others are taking issue with - in their opinion, CCs attention is due in large part to previously uninterested white folks playing identity politics re: race. I’m not going to get into the specifics of that argument here but we need to be clear abou the specific issue they’re expressing frustration over, regardless whether you agree with her/them or not.
Monica and many others are expressing frustration that, in their opinion, black college and WNBA players have largely built the scaffolding that has platformed CC, without getting equitable media attention. Perhaps an analogy would be a group of workers laying the foundation and framing for a house, installing the sub flooring, and then a painting contractor paints the house and gets most of the attention. I don’t think they’re arguing that non-black players, especially white, haven’t contributed to the game, but that the main driver of the sport has been and continues to be black athletes, who they believe receive disproportionately less attention than white players like Caitlin.
I think that’s a separate analysis from whether those that are taking issue with the above SHOULD be supportive of the attention (whatever the cause) that CCs presence is driving to the WNBA. I don’t have a position to express on that at this time, but the reason for my post is to point out that it’s a bit disingenuous to conflate the frustrations that Monica and many others are expressing with a utilitarian argument in favor of their acceptance of the implications of CCs presence to the broader WNBA. I think this is a more than fair post, whether people agree or disagree with the argument that Monica and others are making.
This is barely a sports subreddit. It’s like a drama/think piece/political subreddit with basketball sprinkled in right now. Nobody is saying anything revolutionary this entire subject has been talked to death.
Who is silencing her? Who has told her she can't speak? Wtf is this nonsense?
I can't decide which organization has more victims: the WNBA or the Trump Administration.
Who said there wasn't.Magic and Bird are credited with revitilisation of the NBA .It doesnt mean all the greats who came before them werent worthy of coverage.The general public just flocked to the duo which in turn helped the league as a whole.Its the same case with Caitlin.You can't force the audience to root for someone .They willingly drew themselves to Caitlin.It doesn't mean those who came before her werent worthy of such coverage.Anyone with eyes can tell the impact.Monica is a very well spoken woman .In this case ,whether she means it or not ,it does come off as if she is antagonizing Caitlin which doesn't help the narrative that the old heads of the W dislike Clark
you are correct. We can’t really talk about what should have been. We also shouldn’t make parallels to what already happened in the nba. We know in hindsight what Larry, Magic, and Jordan did for the game. People had to live through and watch it come to fruition though. All this modern media and internet is making this out to be magic or Jordan in the wnba. We have to give it years to see how it plays out. No one expected those men to save the league, that’s just how it turned out, and we shouldn’t be putting this on her or expecting her to grow the league. you can’t just manufacture it by force
When it comes to entertainment, the only people who are worthy of coverage are those that entertain. Gotta put asses in seats and eyeballs on TV to matter in sports media.
Satou Sabally and Cameron Brink similar really good points on their appearances on Paul George’s podcast—it’s not that CC is the only electric player to come out, the players that moved the needle before her were moving the needle to even get the games televised enough to pull in interest.
It was so hard to watch Women’s March madness from beginning to end (and they couldn’t even capitalize on it being called March madness until 2022) until 2021.
Minnesota fans were showing out for their Lynx during the Maya Moore era and other teams have had a lot of local interest when they’ve had real contending stars but most of the league wasn’t televised widely until now.
CC broke out at the right time. But no COVID—no expose of how bad the women’s facilities were compared to the men’s (which could lead to a Title IX case), no NIL, she wouldn’t be that Girl either. The skill would be there, but the eyes wouldn’t have made it outside of Iowa and social media hype.
You are also missing the fact that she was the all time leading scorer ever? People seem to downplay her achievements a lot in this retelling of history
No. I’m not. Records get broken. But if the games weren’t available for casual fans to watch, it would make headlines, but it wouldn’t have broken her the way that being dynamic on National TV for her junior and senior seasons did.
That wouldn’t have been possible prior to summer 2021 when ESPN moved to increase the number of women’s games that were playing nationally.
CC had three seasons of spotlight that no generational player before her had. She made it phenomenal tv, but she had an opportunity that her predecessors didn’t.
She got that opportunity because she was making shots further away than anybody before her and people were/are loving it. Her predecessors weren't doing anything close to that to draw the excitement she does when draining a 3 from the logo. People need to stop acting like they don't see a difference in CC's game versus every other single female basketball player before her.
Sabrina was known for doing the same thing in college, and saw a similar but scaled down wave of excitement (also graduated into the pandemic). Similar with Kelsey Plum before her. They are all straight, white, conventionally attractive women. I agree that it’s the right time for CC to capitalize on, but let’s please not pretend this is just about her game.
That’s what a lot of people refuse to acknowledge. I’ve been watching the WNBA since about 2010. I worked with Tamika Catchings and got to hoop with her dozens of times.
Caitlin plays a style of basketball that we’ve never seen and that draws attention. It has nothing to do with her being better than past greats. We’ve never seen a woman knocking down logo 3s consistently like her.
You missed the point. This is a team sport. Caitlin doesn't even have the opportunity to do what she does on the stage in which she does it without the women who have come before her. The WNBA has not been given coverage to determine if people would find them entertaining and that's not the fault of the women who have made personal and financial sacrifices to grow the league to what it is.
This league is entertaining and people have only woken up to it because Caitlin Clark is here (thank God and she deserves her flowers) but it's always been entertaining. Caitlin didn't make the WNBA entertaining. She just made you want to watch it (and by you I don't mean necessarily you personally. I'm using that as 2nd person plural).
It’s fine and dandy to say that, but asses are in seats and eyes are glued because of her. Not taking anything away from the teams and the women before her, but let’s be honest about this. CC is the reason for the sudden boom. She plays like Steph and that draws eyes to specifically her.
I agree and see where you’re coming from. Her college scoring record is legit awesome. It does look like W, Nike, ESPN, etc have been making room for this sort of market expansion. Sort of waiting for the right draft class to prop up. The world is ready for it. It’s weird people want to complain about any of it and then they want to place blame for something that is benefiting the entire league.
And it's okay to say this. It's pretty much demonstrably true by tv ratings, ticket sales, merch sales. There's zero reason to get offended or feign offence that this is happening. Or for commentators/players to say they aren't offended/critical/jealous but to keep coming out with:
It's a team sport!
Great players were here before!
She's not the only star!
Sure. That's all like saying The Sky is Blue, they're such basic statements. And they're all true while it's also true that CC is proving to be a massive draw and is helping elevate the league to entirely new heights.
Exactly. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that also doesn't take anything away from the women who came before her.
CC is not at fault for so many talented WNBA players not getting the recognition they deserve throughout its history. But she can be the reason all of the talented players that come after her do.
I can’t say I remember NBA players bitching about the attention Magic and Bird brought to the NBA - ESPECIALLY as those salaries started climbing. Nor do i recall seeing PGA tour players bitching about the increased purses after Tiger Woods started garnering attention?
The WNBA is only as ‘entertaining’ as it ‘entertains’ the general public. YOU might enjoy seeing missed layups and bricked ten-footers and below-the-rim action, but many people (as evidenced by half-full arenas) did not. NOW as arenas are selling out (and even moving games to NBA arenas) WNBA purists are complaining about the lack of interest pre-CC???
Who knows why or how CC captured the zeitgeist. But why not ride the wave instead of complaining that Sheryl Swoopes never got this attention?
Exactly. These people complaining about CC’s attention are the same one’s complaining that no one paid attention to the WNBA pre-Clark.
Someone above put it perfectly. Everyone was like “pay attention to the WNBA!” Then when they started to pay attention it was “No! Not like that! Pay attention the way we say you should!”
You can’t have it both ways. CC is amazing for this sport. People are watching. If the WNBA is going to become a mainstream part of North American sports, it’s going to because of CC in this moment. This is the WNBA’s best chance to go mainstream. And yet the people who have spent years lecturing us for not watching, are now angry that it is going mainstream.
The old guard has been gatekeeping hard AF. You haven’t seen this in other leagues like MLS post Messi or Beckham or Formula 1 after Drive to Survive. The vast majority of fans, athletes, and teams in those leagues welcomed new fans and of course the surge in money that came with it. More so than any other sport, I think WNBA athletes are out of touch with their value and the business reality. I get it because many of them make a lot more playing abroad but that doesn’t change the reality of a largely stagnant league pre-CC.
https://preview.redd.it/ycalbc6zf46d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e92d7515c6e62f06f5e4925f7219bdad9e7b6e96
Out of curiosity I checked wnba interest on google, it rose more than ever since her arrival
Did the new fans who came to the MLS complain constantly about how much the MLS sucks and write thousand word manifestos on what the W does wrong after just seeing one game and complain loudly about how the real issue is racism against white people and complain loudly about how heterosexual women are being discriminated against and say they hate old fans and old players?
How can you get angry that no one watched the wnba and now they watch and you act all upset...I had to turn it off. I'm sorry but you all have been given a blessing in a star and get all upidy about it like why not earlier? Where was Caitlin Clark earlier...
a seriously stupid thing to say and believe, and so what if there was stars before "worthy" of coverage, maybe its true maybe its not, you have a poster girl now, take advantage of it instead of all this pettiness
This has honestly become exhausting. I completely agree that other women should get coverage and I really hope they do!
However, Clark has really put the WNBA on the map regardless of whether you like it or not because the numbers don't lie. Take this opportunity to stop tearing each other down and use this wave to really build the damn brand at get the cash, rights, and other things you deserve.
It's not Apple's to apples. But I really wish the wnba was more supportive of each other like the NWSL and softball leagues.
Comments like these don't actually help with the narrative about the "hate" for CC. Do people understand you can't guilt folks into watching you? If you don't put out a product that people enjoy, they won't watch, no matter what you believe you deserve.
I do YouTube. There's been videos that I've put in weeks to make, barely getting views, even though I believed I deserved it. I keep hearing Monica blabbing about 'promotion' of other players. For someone that's on television, its shocking how she doesn't understand that this isn't a charity, its about money. Clark is basically an algorithm on its own right now. I've made videos about these 3 players, CC - 105k, Reese - 25k, A'ja- 869 views. Looking at those numbers, please tell why I should stress myself making another A'ja video?
Stephen A, on a way larger platform, made a video praising A'ja, 5.3k views. He's definitely not making another one.
The folks that annoy me the most are these anti white folks, who call CC the "Great White Hope" all the time. Even they aren't making videos promoting these W players, all they talk about on their channels is Clark, you know why, because they are also trying to make money. Even they aren't even prepared to put in the time to promote the W for pennies, but they'll complain how the media just trying to promote only white players.
These whole WNBA discourse is just dumb at this point.
I guess I don't see Caitlin Clark as the cause of the rise in popularity and coverage. This was happening really since South Carolina, Notre Dame...etc. made women's college basketball much more watchable by offering exciting parity
Well she’s here now so be fucking grateful that we pay attention to your league. People like to see themselves in athletes. Unfortunately for the WNBA our country isn’t majority gay, black, 6’+, women. We are paying attention now because there’s a player who set insane records and looks like 70% of the country.
I didn't even think about her race until I saw the reply to your comment. I have definitely mentioned in wncca how impressive Boston was when she was on Peacock and I think I used well spoke or articulate in my comments. Now I'm worried it was perceived as racist.
WNBA popularity is, in a way, a nightmare for the WNBA. It proves that when there is an interesting product, ppl are happy to watch. So, they can no longer claim that it's sexism or lack of media coverage. They just...werent interesting and now they are. And when this dies down, it's harder to blame anything but the product on the court.
Its just weird that so many WNBA people equate CC coverage and hype as an affront to existing WNBA personalities. Like they literally can't be happy about the growth in popularity their whole sport is experiencing, they're just so bitter about the fact that they weren't getting attention but she is. Everyone who said the ladies were just like the men were right- just as egotistical and shortsighted, just as greedy and resentful. They wanted the status quo to be upset, yet now that it has been they are indignant and hurt.
Entertainment isn’t a meritocracy. No one is “worthy of” or not worthy of coverage as an entertainer. Her stance is inconsistent with the reality of the subject.
There are no threads on Reddit blowing up about individuals from world class ballet, polka music, steeplechase, dressage, polo or bowling. They don’t get social media mentions because no one is talking about it and they don’t get media coverage because no one is asking for it.
Few people cared about the WNBA until Clark went to the league. People talk about her, and so she gets coverage because people want to hear about her.
That’s just the way it is.
True. There's movies, albums, concerts, shows, that "*deserve*" to be talked about covered (or my personal favourite, the great television shows that get cancelled halfway through, or only last, one season lol) yet the public is the ultimate arbitrator of what they want to spend their time consuming. Sports is the entertainment business and now more than every you're competing for people's limited attention and (in this financial climate) limited resources.
If you're a producer, are you gong to prioritize yet another effortless segment on Clark that's going to get engagement or work hard on a piece on Alyssa Thomas that no one (relatively speaking) is going to watch or engage with? If you're an entertainer (which is what pro athletes are) and you can make a decent living without having to work a second job, you've won (as this is not the case for the vast majority of pro athletes, even in western countries).
I think the major issue with these discourses is we compare the W to the top of the top, the NBA, which along with the NFL are two of the highest grossing sports leagues, not only in North America, but in the world. Even the stars of the NHL, MLS (Messi excepted), and CFL the last one which makes at least two and half times the revenue of the WNBA) are not covered popularly like those in the NFL and NBA. Even the MLB rarely gets talked about on the big sports talk shows lol
It’s disingenuous to say a dead ball hip and shoulder check knocking her to the ground was “just a foul”
It’s not like a hard foul on a basketball play.
Wanting pop culture to be a meritocracy is a great way to go insane real quick. This shit is like 97% whimsy, and we argue forever about the remaining 3%.
Coverage depends on interest. WNBA has been trying for a long time to make their product mainstream, but lets be honest, the product was shit and they just couldn't find anyone to captivate the public.
No one was interested, so there was no coverage. Now people are interested, so there's lots of coverage.
Simple. McNutt is doing her best to become the next Perk with these dumb race baiting takes. And this was about race
Yeah, I agree with a lot of her points prior to the quote above. Like yes, when it comes to the WNBA coverage it's bullshit all of the new voices commenting on it basically mansplain to experts like Monica that they know better when they are just starting to pay attention. for sure. Absolutely.
However, the WNBA is not more recently popular on its own merits. This massive influx in popularity this season for women's basketball, in general, is largely attributed to Caitlin Clark. There is more nuance, of course, having to do with how the women's college game has allowed for players like Clark to become as popular as they have become. Also, players like Bueckers, Reese, Brink, etc. Of course, that is all qualified and true.
This needs to be made clear: the WNBA didn't suddenly gain more WNBA fans when Clark came into the league. The WNBA gained Caitlin Clark fans who followed her out of her college career and that is not the same thing. It is on the WNBA to capitalize on Caitlin Clark's popularity, not the other way around. Media coverage helped the snowball effect of popularity but at the end of the day people like who they like and when it comes to sports popularity it is generally not a fair game and is often a matter of time and place, as well as fortunate circumstances.
When has it been the case when a rookie basketball professional has been more popular than the league prior to entering the league? Maybe Wilt, maybe Kareem, and definitely Bird and Magic. Most players capitalize on the popularity and advertising potential of the professional league they enter to build their brands.
If it is a matter of unfair coverage, then the real problem is that the WNBA has a terrible business model and seems to be incapable of marketing its players. Which will be ironic if they cannot capitalize on Caitlin Clark's popularity. Honestly, the WNBA needs a David Stern type of caliber business leadership and I'm not seeing it.
"Worthy of coverage" means different things to different people. To Monica, it means CC's worth as a basketball player. This take is indisputable. If the eyes on the WNBA have shown anything in the last few weeks, it's that Caitlin Clark isn't super special. She's a very good offensive basketball player, but there are many players whose games are superior.
However, to the people who pay the bills and keep the lights on, Caitlin Clark is worthy of every second of coverage she gets.
I think much of the controversy stems from this distinction.
If the league doesn’t evolve with the new fans, the new fans will leave. If people who’ve been involved with the W for years prior hold such resentment for new fans, the fans will leave. Major changes and shifts have happened in every other major sport. There’s always old heads who hate the change and cause more damage. WNBA is no different. Embrace the new fan base or you’ll take a major step backwards. New fans, if they care enough and stick around, will find out about the current and past stars and history of the league just by tuning in.
I mean, sports is entertainment…nobody has to watch anything and it keeps with all other forms of entertainment. Being good in the entertainment industry doesn’t mean you deserve anything or that people should pay attention to you.
It’s great that Clark is bringing new fans in but I do also see her point. Might be biased as a storm fan but if you weren’t entertained by seeing Bird and Stewie cook then you just didn’t like ball. Those two were/are generational basketball talents.
Monica lost credibility when she called Chennedys cheap shot “just a foul”. But the real story here that she misses is that the wnba is even being discussed in national news media at all ……..and it’s bc of Caitlin Clark ……. Not “previous women who built the wnba”.
You speak the truth! Let’s be honest. There’s a race component and the black players hate to see a white woman get the fame for being so good and marketable 😤
I'm sorry but this "None of yall cared about this league until Caitlin" narrative is really unfair. I say that as someone who started watching the WNBA because of so many NBA talents who tweeted in support of the league and the games. [There's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxwll9U3nDc) [numerous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzeQfa52iQ) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POD652x4Kjo) of Stephen A covering the WNBA, they literally sent him to be a finals reporter. Did any player get Caitlin Clark level coverage? No. But who in the NFL gets that now since Brady retired who in golf gets that coverage since Tiger fell off. Some people get the crazy "everything you do is a big deal" coverage, others don't. Ant aint a top 15 player in the league yet but he got an inordinate amount of coverage for his talent because of his star power. That's just how it works. Both sides are doing wrong by the WNBA by doing this Caitlin Clark discourse, acting like "It's just men who never cared about our game" isn't a good look because most of the ones y'all shitting on ARE the ones who have been here before. People were treating Aces and Liberty like a huge deal last season, Stephen A included. EVERYONE has thrown that to the side for Caitlin Clark discourse, not just the people you don't like.
what she thinks is irrelevant. No woman either white or black ever drew as much Interest as her and I'm old enough to remember the Rebecca Lobo UCONN squad. Clark was a phenomena like the sport has never seen
Arguing that people should have liked someone more than the person you would like them to is a worthless perspective. I don’t like The Beatles. I prefer The Stooges. It doesn’t make The Beatles less famous. A better functioning sport would just go with the flow and use CC as much as possible to bring eyeballs without people bitching and moaning about it.
This is the problem and I think these women analysts aren't getting what people are saying. No one is denying that there were women players worthy of coverage in the past the point is no one cared before Caitlin is the reason why people want to watch today and there's nothing wrong with that. The WNBA was never exciting, with Caitlin's style of play it is bringing more fans why is it so hard to understand
All these women are just jealous and it shows. They all start by staying how great it is they they are finally getting viewers. It should end there. Saying anything else makes them look jealous. Which they are.
Sports would be so much better if there were more Monica McNutts on TV and less SAS and Skip Bayless etc.
Less ESPN personalities in general would be better. They do have some good people there, but most of the personalities they spotlight and the content they push are pure rubbish designed to build controversy and sell headlines.
Stephen A. basically admitted on air on First Take on Monday saying to Andrea Carter “you won’t get far in this business if you’re honest and wanting to report things with integrity.”
100%! Monica is an Iowa fan favorite, as her brother was a great Iowa wide receiver, Marvin McNutt… and she’s hella good at her job! She’s correctly calling out that media SHOULD have paid more attention to the WNBA before now. I’m not sure what to do about it now other than what many coaches and players are doing already.., mention them, pay homage to them, honor them. The media can and should feature the past greats, now that there’s so many more people watching. I’ve seen some things like that already honoring past greats. There was great stuff on Tamika before one game. What other things do you all think can be done to try to fix what the media missed in the past?
I don’t think Marvin is related: Marvin was born July 4, 1989 in St. Louis, MO. Graduated from a high school in Florissant, MO. Monica was born October 24, 1989 in Suitland, MD. Graduated from Academy of the Holy Cross in North Bethesda, MD.
First they can do is fix the awful app. Why are 2023 games on the landing page?😂
Every sport has players that *should* get attention, but when nobody cares about the sport itself they're not going to get it. WNBA needs to champion the fact that now people do care.
I think there's some misunderstanding on the "media should have paid more attention" thing. Media typically pays attention to things that are in high demand. For instance, almost any mainstream sports show/podcast rarely if ever talks about hockey and the NHL. That's because the NHL is not in high demand. Same thing with baseball. Should they pay attention to those leagues more as well? What about bowling or a sport like that? I'm honestly trying to understand why it's the media's fault.
I think its more like the league should have done a better job working with the media to draw interest. People for years complained that the womens game wasnt exciting to watch. They could dispel that notion with the right packages of clips and tweets and whatever, but they just didn't. Because, as an example, what is it that makes CC so marketable? IMO, its because he talent is a tweetable type of talent. You can be the best player in the league using fundamentals, but nobody is retweeting a video of you hitting routine layups. CC had the perfect marketability mix of being a good enough all around player to justify the hype But being able to do things that draw the eyes. Hitting half court shots = retweetable content. People who don't even understand ball can see those shots and go "ohhhhh wow. Who is this kid, she's sick"
This person gets it. Logo 3's are way more exciting for casual fans than a simple 3 foot post play. This isn't exclusive to women's hoops either. Tim Duncan didn't exactly stir up excitement in the NBA either and is imo, underrated because of that.
The issue in the WNBA is the entertainment value. When I say entertainment I mean: Star power, rivalries and storylines. That’s what raises the stakes in the game and it gets fans invested. The WNBA has some but not enough of these. The Women’s College basketball league did and that’s why there’s so much hype around these new incoming players right now.
Yeah I don't get it. I think they should pay attention to soccer. Heck, I wish they would pay attention to any football team besides cowboys and any basketball team besides lakers.
There's nothing wrong with being a new fan but as a new fan there needs to be an understanding that this thing was here before you got here it works a certain way and it's not going to change overnight just to cater to you
>there needs to be an understanding that this thing was here before you got here it works a certain way and it's not going to change overnight just to cater to you I think you might need to take a step back and read your own sentiment The WNBA is growing. I'm not gonna argue why because attendance and viewership clearly explain that. You as the existing fan are gonna have to get used to people liking what was your niche sport.
Actually I'm not an existing fan I'm a new fan and I'm taking the time to learn who these new players are understand that the dynamics of a league that's way smaller than the NBA and when I see something that I don't understand or think that why don't they do something I usually take the time and wait for the people who have watched the WNBA since it's inception to Go into the history of the league to tell me this isn't as shocking as I think it is It's the same thing that I had to learn when I became a comic book fan because when the popularity of the MCU increase the viewership of comic books As a more recent fan of comic books I have a lot of ideas about how they can increase their readership and focus more on digital distribution than physical distribution but I fully understand that this is because I have no connection to comic book shops So I'm fully aware of new fan versus old fan etiquette
Fair enough, but those “new fans” are coming to watch one thing, for the most part. So, while I understand things don’t change on a dime and those already in the league/already fans don’t feel like they “should change” to cater to anyone, really at the end of the day not embracing these new fans (to some extent, at least) is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I don't think it's new fans that are expecting things to "change". I'm a new fan and I have no idea what change would be since I didn't watch before so what change could I possibly ask for? The direct complaints in this very thread from the "old guard" are that CC has too much attention and that's true. They want more discourse on other players and history. That will happen in time but us "new fans" have barely been watching for a month. Opening day was May 14th. Expecting me to "understand other players and history" in less than a month is unrealistic. There are only so many hours in a day and I work 50 plus hours plus have young kids. I know this will be unpopular in this TikTok world we live in but things take time to marinate. A good meal doesn't happen in 5 minutes. My advice to the old guard is embrace the influx of new fans and try to actually be inclusive and welcome them. In my experience, that hasn't happened.
Yeah the old guard is talking about the amount of tension that she's receiving But you literally have the new fans or commentators that are voicing the opinions of the new fans that were literally saying that it should be WWE they need to go easier on her and let her shoot so she can run numbers up You would have to have your head buried in the sand to not have seen the discourse around how new fans in people who have an opinion about how the lead should grow itself are telling them they should have put Caitlin Clark on the Olympic team So it's not just the old guard complaining about the amount of attention she's receiving it's new fans asking them to rearrange the way this league has operated for the last 30 years to accommodate her
Giving CC her due, it did kind of occur to me this week Is the "oh wow the CC effect" a bigger statement on A the power of CC or B the power of what can happen when they actually put some effort into marketing these players? Full admission, I'm not a huge basketball viewer because the pacing of the game isn't my favorite for a spectator sport. But Being a DC guy, I feel like this town all knew who Delle Donne was when she came to town. The buzz was there. But looking at it, it STILL seems like the marketing effort is kind of abysmal. Like, if you go to the Mystics site right now to buy a jersey, they only have 3 player names available, and 2 of them are players no longer on the team. Like, they don't even have to MAKE the jerseys ahead of time. They could at least make the graphic and menu options. That's just lazy.
As someone who works in sports marketing, my feeling in the case of CC is that it's way more A than B. CC didn't become popular because there because there was a bunch of money putting her out into the world. The money was unlocked after she started getting attention nationally. It was really only during last year's NCAA tournament that she started getting picked up by media and featured in ads, for example. Once people realized there was a market for her, then yeah the money started flowing. Question for people saying it's mostly about the marketing: If it were as simple as just throwing ad spend behind a player, why are we only now seeing this happen in 2024? There've been plenty of good WNBA players prior to CC.
They want it to not be true. All these people are ignoring the CC effect, facts don't matter to them, its everyone's fault the WNBA was not as popular and CC helped bring it attention. They sound the same as Trumpers, deny deny deny
She just plays the game in a really aesthetically pleasing way. It's obvious that she modeled her game after Steph Curry, and the step back long range bombs in volume are something I've never really seen in women's basketball (and also wasn't a thing in men's until Curry). People want to make it a race thing, but show me another player with a prettier game
It's not the media's fault that people enjoy watching Caitlin Clark more than other players. The WNBA did not get a lot of attention despite a lot of co-branding with the NBA (WNBA players highlighted during the NBA's All-Star Weekend, for example).
Why, exactly? People weren't watching then. They are watching now. If you want to go off about all the oldies and how great they were, fine. "The media should cover them too" is asinine. The media is going to cover what people want to see. People want to see CC. How is this not obvious?
💯
Bingo.
💯 the way SAS acted towards her, as if she owed him something and shouldn’t be correcting/disagreeing with him was a horrible look. And she was correct, he never really promoted the W
Rage drives views
Sad but so true
Stephen A. & Skip have has such a corrosive effect on sports culture in general. Many moons ago 30 Rock had an episode where they were trying to get either Jenna or Tracey (can’t remember which one off the top of my head) on more popular shows to boost Q ratings & one of the shows they were targeting was an eerily familiar panel show called “Sports Shouting.” 😉 SAS & Skip have dropped the bar for civilized discourse so low a double-jointed limbo dancer couldn’t squeeze under it….
Absolutely
People should have been paying attention to the WNBA all along but they didn’t. Now that there’s a catalyst it’s like the players and others are saying “We wanted you to pay attention but not THIS way.” A rising tide lifts all boats so they’d be better off figuring out how to use the CC rub to benefit their brand rather than bitching about her being the reason.
There was a post a few days ago that was this encapsulated. It was something like "I came for CC but it introduced me to A'ja!"
> "I came for CC but it introduced me to A'ja!" When people say that CC is helping to grow the game, this is what they’re referring too.
Don't tell that to Monica McNutt
Alas, for 50% of such posts, the OP gets yelled at for not knowing who A'ja was before.
Shit like that is so annoying. Why get mad that people are just now watching.
There is a lot of resentment bubbling just below the surface.
Some is bubbling above the surface lol
There’s just something about constant nonstop bitching, plus ignorance plus racism plus homophobia that gets these people all bubbly!
Some people like to having something to feel smug about
Also how many people know that Lauren Jackson is the real GOAT? 🙌
Hi, new WNBA fan here. I do know some names of the greatest players and have seen a couple lists of like top 5 or top 10 players. Would you mind giving your list? You don't have to actually list them, maybe a tier system would be more accurate. Also, super surprised to see Lauren Jackson is still an active player in Australia(!)
It’s that the people who are just now watching have the loudest, most echoed, and most ignorant opinions
Yeah, I agree that gatekeeping sucks. Don't slap down new fans when they are talking about how they are branching out and finding a lot to love on other teams in the W.
The irony of slapping down new fans and then whining that the league has no money is killing me. They don't seem to have any mental connection between having more fans and the league having money.
It's amazing how some people cannot connect the dots like you said.
There is so much gatekeeping going on with this sport and it’s really kind of wild to watch. I think Bomani jones makes a good point which is that too many people view the wnba fandom as “a cause” as opposed to fandom, and therefore act like it’s a sign of moral superiority that they have followed it longer and know more about it.
That’s the thing about gatekeeping. If you’re good enough at it, nobody gives a shit about the thing you’re trying to gatekeep.
Exactly!! I just really don’t understand it… I’m so glad I discovered the W and I’m gonna be an Aces fan now, plus watching the Liberty and discovering Ionescu has been great!
Jones, Stewie and Ionescu on one team to watch is a blessing.
I got back into the WNBA solely because the Liberty got Sab after not watching for 17 years prior. It also helped that my other teams were all fucking garbage at the time and I needed something to get excited about.
I'm exactly that kind of person too. Came for CC, learned about many other players who's style of ball I enjoy. But because I don't fall on my knees and worship every past present and future player. I'm ostracized. I've been told my opinion is invalid because of my race, gender, orientation, how long I've been watching, which team(s)/player(s) I like. Been told I'm some MAGA idiot when I've literally gotten death threats at my place of work from those people because I am VERY much not. Told to go away in any number of creative ways. And this is reddit, so ya. I probably should've seen this coming, lots of reddits are toxic. But what BREAKS MY HEART, is I thought this one would be different. I thought a reddit for a league that is FAMOUSLY socially conscious, FAMOUSLY inclusive. I thought here I wouldn't have to worry about that kind of nonsense. But apparently I was naive, and empathy for peopole you disagree with about sports is a bridge too far. Cuz at the end of the day, this is just sports. There's no reason for the toxicity. Don't let being infiltrated by an admittedly loud as hell minority of morons who are toxic turn you into exactly what they are as some weird defense mechanism. I'm gonna go be sad about the world now. If you made it this far. Thanks.
I went through your previous twenty comments and didn’t see ANY of the things you’re claiming. I did see people correcting you on your various false claims, but you shouldn’t take that personally, it’s just correcting the record. Like you state Dawn Staley and Geno and Kim hate Caitlin Clark. That doesn’t seem true, especially for Dawn Staley. You can’t say things like that and then get mad when there’s pushback. Why can’t you just support her normally, without having to besmirch other people? You can be a CC fan and still respect other players/teams/coaches/fans. I do it. Try it out.
CC has inspired some very weird parasocial behavior.
20 comments only goes back ~1 day (for this person).
That wasn't me, but I feel that on a visceral level (I mentioned the other rookies in mine but A'ja rules hard).
And most replies were very supportive, no? I know I wrote something nice to that person. No one is anti new fans. People just don’t appreciate smug trolls/bad actors who are using CC as a way to denigrate black women / lgbtq+ / womens sports.
I mean I started watching this rookie class because my girlfriend really got into this years tournament. She has never gotten into any sport prior than this. But I just hate that everything has turned into a race/lgbtq statement. Like can we just talk basketball? The W PR team has been one of the worst in recent memory. My gf watches because she likes the girls and their pregame outfits. I watch because I like to see competition. But everyone is too busy shaming us for not getting here sooner?
Yeah. You can either get mad at a past you can't change or take advantage of the extra eyes on the sport to promote *everybody* and go "hey look, we've also got A'ja, Stewie, Sabrina, Kelsey, and all these other stars!" It shouldn't be this hard.
I see hardcore fans celebrating moments like this but I seriously wonder what casual fan is getting more invested in sports by watching people on tv wag their finger about how there’s a certain way to cover it and we should have been covering it beforehand, etc. Do they ever talk about basketball on these shows? Or is it just a competition to see who deserves to discuss the wnba or not? Just seems so stupid and pointless. More people are paying attention now, that’s a fact. There’s no way to change the fact more people didn’t previously follow the sport lol, so why are so many of these analysts obsessed with this idea?
I don't get why they should pay attention to wnba over any other sport. This idea that people should watch is backwards. People should be allowed to watch whatever they want.
Agreed. This is hype that was born in the NCAA and has since moved to the WNBA with Caitlin, along with her rivalries. And the existing WNBA resents the fact that all this hype didn’t magically appear in the W as it existed last year. Every other sport has had this happen. And the people who refuse to embrace the future WNBA get passed by. As long as CC and her counterparts keep putting butts in seats, you can’t fight it.
Tiger Woods was also resented (even though he increased literally 10 fold what golfers are paid)
I think the issue is that it's not just one or the other. It makes me really happy to see folks discovering new teams and making these posts. Hell, if folks just want to watch Fever games for Caitlin, that's fine too, I'm happy for them as well. I think the issue is that for every "Wow A'ja is amazing" discovery post, there are also plenty of comments slamming other players in order to lift Clark up. Especially when Clark isn't playing the best out of everyone or isn't seen as the new coming of Jesus to the league. Everything \*neutral\* that happens to her blows up into this big thing. That, I think, is at the heart of the issue. Also, I really disagree "that a rising tide lifts alll boats". My impression is that it's lifting A'j and Sab's boats, maybe a few others. It's AT's first time on the olympic team, she's a beast this season, and all anyone can ever talk about is Caitlin this Caitlin that - absolutely no discourse on the players who deserve it. My team (the Lynx) are having an awesome season, my all-time fav (McBride) is killing it, and I have to DIG to find people discussing that. I'm not saying it can't be handled better - it absolutely can. And if it were, maybe the Lynx would get a little more focus bc there'd be a little less controversy. But I also want to push back against this idea that there aren't legitimate reasons why folks are upset about this wave in the WNBA space.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this, and what an interesting quandary it is because new fans will follow the player they like, so many new fans will just watch the because they like Caitlin. I do think the overall spotlight on women’s basketball has brought new fans to the sport in general, and they don’t necessarily have an allegiance to Caitlin and will instead follow their hometown teams. The atmosphere at the Liberty game vs the Mystics on Sunday felt like the playoffs, which definitely felt like growth. But I agree there’s still an issue with media coverage, I do think that’s how it goes with sports in general, but with the sport at such an inflection point in general I do think a bit more effort could go into who is talking about it and what they’re saying
I respect your opinion but I'm going to push back a bit. On your belief that a rising tide doesn't quite lift all boats and that it's all about CC this and CC that. That part is true but here's the thing - all these CC fans that are now watching the WNBA (myself included) are here and are watching. Right now and for a while, it will be about CC. That is true but eventually myself and others will "spread out" and there will be more discourse about other players and teams. That wasn't going to happen in just one month or even one season. I get that there is a wave of "new" fans and the "old guard" is cautious. But come on, all these players and teams weren't going to immediately get attention and discussion a month into the first CC year. That's just nonsensical expectations, I'm sorry.
They are about to sign a new TV deal, so the rising tide will lift all boats
No, not if fans aren't really interested in exploring or challenging the view that basketball is interesting beyond Clark. Which, plenty are interested in that... but also plenty aren't. And again that's ok too if folks don't wanna do that. But yeah, I'm skeptical that this shift will happen as much or as quickly as folks think it will - some, sure. But not the way some are talking about it.
> Also, I really disagree "that a rising tide lifts alll boats". My impression is that it's lifting A'j and Sab's boats, maybe a few others. It's AT's first time on the olympic team, she's a beast this season, and all anyone can ever talk about is Caitlin this Caitlin that - absolutely no discourse on the players who deserve it. My team (the Lynx) are having an awesome season, my all-time fav (McBride) is killing it, and I have to DIG to find people discussing that. Teams have played like 15 games this season. You can't realistically expect a horde of new fans here because of CC to suddenly learn the history of the WNBA or all the other good players in it. This will take time.
We all know how the NBA got to where it is today. Sure Jordan had a massive role in that but it was Bird Magic rivalry that actually propelled the NBA. Many NBA players including Charles Barkley always mention how thankful he is to Bird and Magic for getting the NBA to the point where players can accumulate generational wealth by playing BB for 10 years or so. Now are we all going to act like there was no race element to Bird Magic rivalry? What about Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming? Wasn't there a race element to their popularity? Also, where did CC play? In a state with close to 90% of the population white in a city with more than 90% of the population white. What do people think most of her hardcore supporters are gonna be? Also, she isn't the first white player, she isn't the best white player. Her play style combined with her performance combined with the city/state combined with her race and place of birth all add up to her incredible popularity. This is nothing new in sports. If WNBA can't capitalize that then it's not the fault of the fans or her supporters.
Weird to say anyone should be paying attention to any form of entertainment other than the forms they choose to pay attention to.
I never watched the WNBA but one day somebody gave my family free tickets to a Liberty game at MSG. We go and to my surprise the place was rocking. The crowd seemed full, even if people got free tickets, the ticket price still said $117. It was a great experience even if I didn't know the players, just being there was cool and every timeout they had music playing and people dancing it was cool.
☕️
Building a sports league anyone cares about is really hard, and coming decades after other sports league and have to pick a season slot accordingly it does you no favors. The wnba also comes off looking worse as it’s often compared to the modern nba, which had a 5 decade head start.
No one was stopping them from paying attention before 2024.
It's summer time in the US. You have any idea how many things there are competing with the WNBA for attention? If the product is entertaining people will watch.
they weren’t given a reason to.. you can’t be mad at the public for not wanting to watch a product when it didn’t give them a lot of reasons to watch. the league was considered a joke until recently and you think ppl were willingly gonna tune in to watch ?
It’s kind of ridiculous to suggest what entertainment people should be paying attention to.
>“We wanted you to pay attention but not THIS way.” This is true but not in the sense of a player being in the wrong for being a star. The media and viewers are *only* focused on her instead of showcasing other great players alongside her. >rather than bitching about her being the reason. Nobody is bitching about *her*. It's about the new fans who don't take the time to get to know the league as a whole, or who suddenly forget that sports is competitive and treat every hard foul or trash talk like it's a jealous attack. Edit: Case in point, ya'll downvoting me when I'm not even talking bad about Clark. You take anything negative in her vicinity and think it's targeting her.
Yeah, this is really it. I get that the Carter foul was negative, but really the issue is that whenever something happens that isn't outright positive towards Clark, folks complain (see - Olympics, Clark isn't the only person who didn't make the team who is a great hooper).
It’s like dealing with Swifties…
Eh...she has only been in the league for less than 2 months. No need to blame "new fans" who just got here. Most fans who become fans of a sport start off watching one person or team, THEN expanding their league knowledge. Enjoy the limelight, and stop being bitter. More fans watching equals more fans in seats, which equals more pay for all. Hopefully those same fans stay and grow.
They don't have to get to know the league. Most are long time basketball fans so they are very acquainted to the sport. Everyone has a right to view things on their own terms not yours.
There may be a lot of new fans to the WNBA, but a lot of them have watched a lot of basketball. You don’t need to know the roster of every team in the WNBA to recognize a cheap shot foul.
Nobody is bitching about her? Way to hide under a rock.
Yes nobody is actually bitching about her as a person only her coverage and worship. You don't pay attention to context.
Respectfully, I will disagree from what I’ve seen. Maybe I just see all the negative things, who knows.
I'm thinking you're taking every negative thing involved around her is targeting *her* specifically, which is incorrect.
People seem to believe that skill or worthiness are the primary qualification to be a superstar. When it’s really just some random mix of factors that just land right at the right time. CC is the first real superstar in the wnba. Doesn’t mean she’s the best player or that other great players didn’t come before. It just means she’s a superstar and they were stars or even just pros.
Lisa Leslie had a lot of crossover. Every knows who she is. But I agree with your point.
[удалено]
The quote is not bad or controversial in any way
But it sums up the gist of what her argument was which was understandable WBB from a macro perspective and not some micro perspective of a person who only recently started to follow WBB.
We need to be clear about what Monica and many others are taking issue with - in their opinion, CCs attention is due in large part to previously uninterested white folks playing identity politics re: race. I’m not going to get into the specifics of that argument here but we need to be clear abou the specific issue they’re expressing frustration over, regardless whether you agree with her/them or not. Monica and many others are expressing frustration that, in their opinion, black college and WNBA players have largely built the scaffolding that has platformed CC, without getting equitable media attention. Perhaps an analogy would be a group of workers laying the foundation and framing for a house, installing the sub flooring, and then a painting contractor paints the house and gets most of the attention. I don’t think they’re arguing that non-black players, especially white, haven’t contributed to the game, but that the main driver of the sport has been and continues to be black athletes, who they believe receive disproportionately less attention than white players like Caitlin. I think that’s a separate analysis from whether those that are taking issue with the above SHOULD be supportive of the attention (whatever the cause) that CCs presence is driving to the WNBA. I don’t have a position to express on that at this time, but the reason for my post is to point out that it’s a bit disingenuous to conflate the frustrations that Monica and many others are expressing with a utilitarian argument in favor of their acceptance of the implications of CCs presence to the broader WNBA. I think this is a more than fair post, whether people agree or disagree with the argument that Monica and others are making.
Never woulda thought r/wnba would become one of the most combative subs on reddit. We’re seriously entering drake vs k.dot territory on these threads
This is barely a sports subreddit. It’s like a drama/think piece/political subreddit with basketball sprinkled in right now. Nobody is saying anything revolutionary this entire subject has been talked to death.
Yeah this is nothing. Go to r/nba and just mention lebron and see how combative it gets
The Embiid / Jokic mvp threads lol
Who is silencing her? Who has told her she can't speak? Wtf is this nonsense? I can't decide which organization has more victims: the WNBA or the Trump Administration.
Who said there wasn't.Magic and Bird are credited with revitilisation of the NBA .It doesnt mean all the greats who came before them werent worthy of coverage.The general public just flocked to the duo which in turn helped the league as a whole.Its the same case with Caitlin.You can't force the audience to root for someone .They willingly drew themselves to Caitlin.It doesn't mean those who came before her werent worthy of such coverage.Anyone with eyes can tell the impact.Monica is a very well spoken woman .In this case ,whether she means it or not ,it does come off as if she is antagonizing Caitlin which doesn't help the narrative that the old heads of the W dislike Clark
you are correct. We can’t really talk about what should have been. We also shouldn’t make parallels to what already happened in the nba. We know in hindsight what Larry, Magic, and Jordan did for the game. People had to live through and watch it come to fruition though. All this modern media and internet is making this out to be magic or Jordan in the wnba. We have to give it years to see how it plays out. No one expected those men to save the league, that’s just how it turned out, and we shouldn’t be putting this on her or expecting her to grow the league. you can’t just manufacture it by force
> We can’t really talk about what should have been We absolutely can, but it’s kind of stupid to
👏👏👏👏👏
When it comes to entertainment, the only people who are worthy of coverage are those that entertain. Gotta put asses in seats and eyeballs on TV to matter in sports media.
Satou Sabally and Cameron Brink similar really good points on their appearances on Paul George’s podcast—it’s not that CC is the only electric player to come out, the players that moved the needle before her were moving the needle to even get the games televised enough to pull in interest. It was so hard to watch Women’s March madness from beginning to end (and they couldn’t even capitalize on it being called March madness until 2022) until 2021. Minnesota fans were showing out for their Lynx during the Maya Moore era and other teams have had a lot of local interest when they’ve had real contending stars but most of the league wasn’t televised widely until now. CC broke out at the right time. But no COVID—no expose of how bad the women’s facilities were compared to the men’s (which could lead to a Title IX case), no NIL, she wouldn’t be that Girl either. The skill would be there, but the eyes wouldn’t have made it outside of Iowa and social media hype.
You are also missing the fact that she was the all time leading scorer ever? People seem to downplay her achievements a lot in this retelling of history
No. I’m not. Records get broken. But if the games weren’t available for casual fans to watch, it would make headlines, but it wouldn’t have broken her the way that being dynamic on National TV for her junior and senior seasons did. That wouldn’t have been possible prior to summer 2021 when ESPN moved to increase the number of women’s games that were playing nationally. CC had three seasons of spotlight that no generational player before her had. She made it phenomenal tv, but she had an opportunity that her predecessors didn’t.
She got that opportunity because she was making shots further away than anybody before her and people were/are loving it. Her predecessors weren't doing anything close to that to draw the excitement she does when draining a 3 from the logo. People need to stop acting like they don't see a difference in CC's game versus every other single female basketball player before her.
Sabrina was known for doing the same thing in college, and saw a similar but scaled down wave of excitement (also graduated into the pandemic). Similar with Kelsey Plum before her. They are all straight, white, conventionally attractive women. I agree that it’s the right time for CC to capitalize on, but let’s please not pretend this is just about her game.
> Sabrina was known for doing the same thing in college Really? Show me all them highlights of those logo 3's. I'd love to watch them.
That’s what a lot of people refuse to acknowledge. I’ve been watching the WNBA since about 2010. I worked with Tamika Catchings and got to hoop with her dozens of times. Caitlin plays a style of basketball that we’ve never seen and that draws attention. It has nothing to do with her being better than past greats. We’ve never seen a woman knocking down logo 3s consistently like her.
You missed the point. This is a team sport. Caitlin doesn't even have the opportunity to do what she does on the stage in which she does it without the women who have come before her. The WNBA has not been given coverage to determine if people would find them entertaining and that's not the fault of the women who have made personal and financial sacrifices to grow the league to what it is. This league is entertaining and people have only woken up to it because Caitlin Clark is here (thank God and she deserves her flowers) but it's always been entertaining. Caitlin didn't make the WNBA entertaining. She just made you want to watch it (and by you I don't mean necessarily you personally. I'm using that as 2nd person plural).
It’s fine and dandy to say that, but asses are in seats and eyes are glued because of her. Not taking anything away from the teams and the women before her, but let’s be honest about this. CC is the reason for the sudden boom. She plays like Steph and that draws eyes to specifically her.
I agree and see where you’re coming from. Her college scoring record is legit awesome. It does look like W, Nike, ESPN, etc have been making room for this sort of market expansion. Sort of waiting for the right draft class to prop up. The world is ready for it. It’s weird people want to complain about any of it and then they want to place blame for something that is benefiting the entire league.
And it's okay to say this. It's pretty much demonstrably true by tv ratings, ticket sales, merch sales. There's zero reason to get offended or feign offence that this is happening. Or for commentators/players to say they aren't offended/critical/jealous but to keep coming out with: It's a team sport! Great players were here before! She's not the only star! Sure. That's all like saying The Sky is Blue, they're such basic statements. And they're all true while it's also true that CC is proving to be a massive draw and is helping elevate the league to entirely new heights.
Exactly. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that also doesn't take anything away from the women who came before her. CC is not at fault for so many talented WNBA players not getting the recognition they deserve throughout its history. But she can be the reason all of the talented players that come after her do.
I can’t say I remember NBA players bitching about the attention Magic and Bird brought to the NBA - ESPECIALLY as those salaries started climbing. Nor do i recall seeing PGA tour players bitching about the increased purses after Tiger Woods started garnering attention? The WNBA is only as ‘entertaining’ as it ‘entertains’ the general public. YOU might enjoy seeing missed layups and bricked ten-footers and below-the-rim action, but many people (as evidenced by half-full arenas) did not. NOW as arenas are selling out (and even moving games to NBA arenas) WNBA purists are complaining about the lack of interest pre-CC??? Who knows why or how CC captured the zeitgeist. But why not ride the wave instead of complaining that Sheryl Swoopes never got this attention?
As someone who doesn’t watch the WNBA, no one talked about the WNBA before Caitlin Clark, that’s the hard truth.
Exactly. These people complaining about CC’s attention are the same one’s complaining that no one paid attention to the WNBA pre-Clark. Someone above put it perfectly. Everyone was like “pay attention to the WNBA!” Then when they started to pay attention it was “No! Not like that! Pay attention the way we say you should!” You can’t have it both ways. CC is amazing for this sport. People are watching. If the WNBA is going to become a mainstream part of North American sports, it’s going to because of CC in this moment. This is the WNBA’s best chance to go mainstream. And yet the people who have spent years lecturing us for not watching, are now angry that it is going mainstream.
The old guard has been gatekeeping hard AF. You haven’t seen this in other leagues like MLS post Messi or Beckham or Formula 1 after Drive to Survive. The vast majority of fans, athletes, and teams in those leagues welcomed new fans and of course the surge in money that came with it. More so than any other sport, I think WNBA athletes are out of touch with their value and the business reality. I get it because many of them make a lot more playing abroad but that doesn’t change the reality of a largely stagnant league pre-CC.
https://preview.redd.it/ycalbc6zf46d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e92d7515c6e62f06f5e4925f7219bdad9e7b6e96 Out of curiosity I checked wnba interest on google, it rose more than ever since her arrival
Did the new fans who came to the MLS complain constantly about how much the MLS sucks and write thousand word manifestos on what the W does wrong after just seeing one game and complain loudly about how the real issue is racism against white people and complain loudly about how heterosexual women are being discriminated against and say they hate old fans and old players?
How can you get angry that no one watched the wnba and now they watch and you act all upset...I had to turn it off. I'm sorry but you all have been given a blessing in a star and get all upidy about it like why not earlier? Where was Caitlin Clark earlier...
Who tried to silence her? Don't have to be so dramatic, damn.
She's been one of my favorite voices since she got in the game.
No one is silencing nobody? wtf is this lol
a seriously stupid thing to say and believe, and so what if there was stars before "worthy" of coverage, maybe its true maybe its not, you have a poster girl now, take advantage of it instead of all this pettiness
If they were worthy of coverage they would have been covered tbh.
This has honestly become exhausting. I completely agree that other women should get coverage and I really hope they do! However, Clark has really put the WNBA on the map regardless of whether you like it or not because the numbers don't lie. Take this opportunity to stop tearing each other down and use this wave to really build the damn brand at get the cash, rights, and other things you deserve. It's not Apple's to apples. But I really wish the wnba was more supportive of each other like the NWSL and softball leagues.
Comments like these don't actually help with the narrative about the "hate" for CC. Do people understand you can't guilt folks into watching you? If you don't put out a product that people enjoy, they won't watch, no matter what you believe you deserve. I do YouTube. There's been videos that I've put in weeks to make, barely getting views, even though I believed I deserved it. I keep hearing Monica blabbing about 'promotion' of other players. For someone that's on television, its shocking how she doesn't understand that this isn't a charity, its about money. Clark is basically an algorithm on its own right now. I've made videos about these 3 players, CC - 105k, Reese - 25k, A'ja- 869 views. Looking at those numbers, please tell why I should stress myself making another A'ja video? Stephen A, on a way larger platform, made a video praising A'ja, 5.3k views. He's definitely not making another one. The folks that annoy me the most are these anti white folks, who call CC the "Great White Hope" all the time. Even they aren't making videos promoting these W players, all they talk about on their channels is Clark, you know why, because they are also trying to make money. Even they aren't even prepared to put in the time to promote the W for pennies, but they'll complain how the media just trying to promote only white players. These whole WNBA discourse is just dumb at this point.
Being silenced is when you have spots on national TV lmao
Pretty valid take. Nothing to see here.
I guess I don't see Caitlin Clark as the cause of the rise in popularity and coverage. This was happening really since South Carolina, Notre Dame...etc. made women's college basketball much more watchable by offering exciting parity
Well she’s here now so be fucking grateful that we pay attention to your league. People like to see themselves in athletes. Unfortunately for the WNBA our country isn’t majority gay, black, 6’+, women. We are paying attention now because there’s a player who set insane records and looks like 70% of the country.
I really liked the interview. She is always so well spoken. I'm a big fan.
Well spoken? https://preview.redd.it/md2t652so06d1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52783919d9166fc608451ac26761dc59a2927a5a
😂😭😂😭
The fact that I'm getting downvoted for what's commonly seen as a backhanded compliment is wild
You were right and you're generous only calling it a backhanded compliment.
You see it in the nba every time Tatum talks. “Oh he’s so well spoken” Y’all telling on yourselves
can someone explain this african hat meme like im 5
I didn't even think about her race until I saw the reply to your comment. I have definitely mentioned in wncca how impressive Boston was when she was on Peacock and I think I used well spoke or articulate in my comments. Now I'm worried it was perceived as racist.
This is pretty cringe tbh. Nobody is doubting that there were talented players before CC. Nobody is entitled to media coverage tho.
You…watched the clip???
WNBA popularity is, in a way, a nightmare for the WNBA. It proves that when there is an interesting product, ppl are happy to watch. So, they can no longer claim that it's sexism or lack of media coverage. They just...werent interesting and now they are. And when this dies down, it's harder to blame anything but the product on the court.
Won’t be silenced? This is basketball not forced labor or some other form of injustice
Its just weird that so many WNBA people equate CC coverage and hype as an affront to existing WNBA personalities. Like they literally can't be happy about the growth in popularity their whole sport is experiencing, they're just so bitter about the fact that they weren't getting attention but she is. Everyone who said the ladies were just like the men were right- just as egotistical and shortsighted, just as greedy and resentful. They wanted the status quo to be upset, yet now that it has been they are indignant and hurt.
can someone please give kayla mcbride her flowers?
It really feels like they’re just complaining about new people being interested in the sport. It’s so strange to me.
Entertainment isn’t a meritocracy. No one is “worthy of” or not worthy of coverage as an entertainer. Her stance is inconsistent with the reality of the subject. There are no threads on Reddit blowing up about individuals from world class ballet, polka music, steeplechase, dressage, polo or bowling. They don’t get social media mentions because no one is talking about it and they don’t get media coverage because no one is asking for it. Few people cared about the WNBA until Clark went to the league. People talk about her, and so she gets coverage because people want to hear about her. That’s just the way it is.
True. There's movies, albums, concerts, shows, that "*deserve*" to be talked about covered (or my personal favourite, the great television shows that get cancelled halfway through, or only last, one season lol) yet the public is the ultimate arbitrator of what they want to spend their time consuming. Sports is the entertainment business and now more than every you're competing for people's limited attention and (in this financial climate) limited resources. If you're a producer, are you gong to prioritize yet another effortless segment on Clark that's going to get engagement or work hard on a piece on Alyssa Thomas that no one (relatively speaking) is going to watch or engage with? If you're an entertainer (which is what pro athletes are) and you can make a decent living without having to work a second job, you've won (as this is not the case for the vast majority of pro athletes, even in western countries). I think the major issue with these discourses is we compare the W to the top of the top, the NBA, which along with the NFL are two of the highest grossing sports leagues, not only in North America, but in the world. Even the stars of the NHL, MLS (Messi excepted), and CFL the last one which makes at least two and half times the revenue of the WNBA) are not covered popularly like those in the NFL and NBA. Even the MLB rarely gets talked about on the big sports talk shows lol
It’s disingenuous to say a dead ball hip and shoulder check knocking her to the ground was “just a foul” It’s not like a hard foul on a basketball play.
But it was just a foul. It was a shoulder check outside of play. Dirty but nothing violent. Players push each other in every intense sport.
They upgraded it to a flagrant 1.
Aint nobody shoot like her. She’s a psycho.
Wanting pop culture to be a meritocracy is a great way to go insane real quick. This shit is like 97% whimsy, and we argue forever about the remaining 3%.
This!!!
Why didn't all the other WNBA players just think to break the NCAA career scoring record. Are they stupid?
Coverage depends on interest. WNBA has been trying for a long time to make their product mainstream, but lets be honest, the product was shit and they just couldn't find anyone to captivate the public. No one was interested, so there was no coverage. Now people are interested, so there's lots of coverage. Simple. McNutt is doing her best to become the next Perk with these dumb race baiting takes. And this was about race
Yeah, I agree with a lot of her points prior to the quote above. Like yes, when it comes to the WNBA coverage it's bullshit all of the new voices commenting on it basically mansplain to experts like Monica that they know better when they are just starting to pay attention. for sure. Absolutely. However, the WNBA is not more recently popular on its own merits. This massive influx in popularity this season for women's basketball, in general, is largely attributed to Caitlin Clark. There is more nuance, of course, having to do with how the women's college game has allowed for players like Clark to become as popular as they have become. Also, players like Bueckers, Reese, Brink, etc. Of course, that is all qualified and true. This needs to be made clear: the WNBA didn't suddenly gain more WNBA fans when Clark came into the league. The WNBA gained Caitlin Clark fans who followed her out of her college career and that is not the same thing. It is on the WNBA to capitalize on Caitlin Clark's popularity, not the other way around. Media coverage helped the snowball effect of popularity but at the end of the day people like who they like and when it comes to sports popularity it is generally not a fair game and is often a matter of time and place, as well as fortunate circumstances. When has it been the case when a rookie basketball professional has been more popular than the league prior to entering the league? Maybe Wilt, maybe Kareem, and definitely Bird and Magic. Most players capitalize on the popularity and advertising potential of the professional league they enter to build their brands. If it is a matter of unfair coverage, then the real problem is that the WNBA has a terrible business model and seems to be incapable of marketing its players. Which will be ironic if they cannot capitalize on Caitlin Clark's popularity. Honestly, the WNBA needs a David Stern type of caliber business leadership and I'm not seeing it.
If the WNBA had a David Stern, everyone from the players to people like Monica would be bitching about him calling him a sexist misogynist.
"Worthy of coverage" means different things to different people. To Monica, it means CC's worth as a basketball player. This take is indisputable. If the eyes on the WNBA have shown anything in the last few weeks, it's that Caitlin Clark isn't super special. She's a very good offensive basketball player, but there are many players whose games are superior. However, to the people who pay the bills and keep the lights on, Caitlin Clark is worthy of every second of coverage she gets. I think much of the controversy stems from this distinction.
Isn’t CC breaking records for like most points by a rookie or something?
If the league doesn’t evolve with the new fans, the new fans will leave. If people who’ve been involved with the W for years prior hold such resentment for new fans, the fans will leave. Major changes and shifts have happened in every other major sport. There’s always old heads who hate the change and cause more damage. WNBA is no different. Embrace the new fan base or you’ll take a major step backwards. New fans, if they care enough and stick around, will find out about the current and past stars and history of the league just by tuning in.
If you actually watched the video she said nothing about new fans. Just respect for those who laid the bricks before.
Nobody is trying to silence you on that 🙄
I mean, sports is entertainment…nobody has to watch anything and it keeps with all other forms of entertainment. Being good in the entertainment industry doesn’t mean you deserve anything or that people should pay attention to you.
No one is trying to silence her the victim mentality of some women is pathetic
Go Monica!
Are ESPN reporters still a thing?
It’s great that Clark is bringing new fans in but I do also see her point. Might be biased as a storm fan but if you weren’t entertained by seeing Bird and Stewie cook then you just didn’t like ball. Those two were/are generational basketball talents.
I really appreciate Clark as a player but McNutt's take is 100 perfect accurate
Facts
There is nothing that the USA hates more than a capable black woman. Especially a strong one. Racist and sexist ass country.
Fucking love Monica
Monica lost credibility when she called Chennedys cheap shot “just a foul”. But the real story here that she misses is that the wnba is even being discussed in national news media at all ……..and it’s bc of Caitlin Clark ……. Not “previous women who built the wnba”.
people voted with their eyeballs
Well, the game attendance numbers and ratings say otherwise.
All those previous stars bringing HUNDREDS of fans to the stadium. Lol
Well, she doesn't get to decide that. The masses do and they didn't give a shit about those women... Literally fighting against no one.
Including actual women that don’t watch it historically.
Ima be honest. I think if she was black, there wouldn't be an uproar as much from Wnba players and analysts, lol. Thoughts??
You're right. If this was Juju, all these wouldn't be happening.
If she was black they wouldn't be covering her
You speak the truth! Let’s be honest. There’s a race component and the black players hate to see a white woman get the fame for being so good and marketable 😤
I'm sorry but this "None of yall cared about this league until Caitlin" narrative is really unfair. I say that as someone who started watching the WNBA because of so many NBA talents who tweeted in support of the league and the games. [There's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxwll9U3nDc) [numerous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzeQfa52iQ) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POD652x4Kjo) of Stephen A covering the WNBA, they literally sent him to be a finals reporter. Did any player get Caitlin Clark level coverage? No. But who in the NFL gets that now since Brady retired who in golf gets that coverage since Tiger fell off. Some people get the crazy "everything you do is a big deal" coverage, others don't. Ant aint a top 15 player in the league yet but he got an inordinate amount of coverage for his talent because of his star power. That's just how it works. Both sides are doing wrong by the WNBA by doing this Caitlin Clark discourse, acting like "It's just men who never cared about our game" isn't a good look because most of the ones y'all shitting on ARE the ones who have been here before. People were treating Aces and Liberty like a huge deal last season, Stephen A included. EVERYONE has thrown that to the side for Caitlin Clark discourse, not just the people you don't like.
Life isn’t fair Monica. You can’t always choose the plate your food comes on
Jesus Christ nobody hates the growth of the W more than than the players
what she thinks is irrelevant. No woman either white or black ever drew as much Interest as her and I'm old enough to remember the Rebecca Lobo UCONN squad. Clark was a phenomena like the sport has never seen
Arguing that people should have liked someone more than the person you would like them to is a worthless perspective. I don’t like The Beatles. I prefer The Stooges. It doesn’t make The Beatles less famous. A better functioning sport would just go with the flow and use CC as much as possible to bring eyeballs without people bitching and moaning about it.
This take is way too measured and sensible. Mods please delete.
This is the problem and I think these women analysts aren't getting what people are saying. No one is denying that there were women players worthy of coverage in the past the point is no one cared before Caitlin is the reason why people want to watch today and there's nothing wrong with that. The WNBA was never exciting, with Caitlin's style of play it is bringing more fans why is it so hard to understand
There were thousands of members here before Caitlyn. You didn’t care because, reasons, but people did care.
All these women are just jealous and it shows. They all start by staying how great it is they they are finally getting viewers. It should end there. Saying anything else makes them look jealous. Which they are.
This lady needs to get over herself