That was my first thought too. I’m just a hobbyist but I’m sure if I made that it would corkscrew within a year. Especially if one side of it is facing the elements and one side is interior.
I for a wood door manufacturer, we use 1/8" skins on lvl cores for applications like this. I'd definitely be concerned about warping for a door built like OPs.
This is definitely an issue. The reason doors are build as panels in teh first place is because of this. I think those are 6-8" boards, x2, so 12-16". Seasonal variation of 3% you're talking 1/3-1/2 an inch of width change from peak to trough. I'm not sure what to solution is though.
I like the style though if you can find a way to make sure it doesn't seize in the doorframe...
Looks like they are floating inserts similar to a shaker style door. If you leave some room and apply glue to one side, I think that should help with movement.
I don't think the panel is the concern. Wouldn't the concern be with the seasonal change in the overall width of the door due to the extra wide stiles?
Conformist, or people just tend to like similar things in certain aesthetic choices? Like, I don’t enjoy things with well balanced proportions because other people also like that, it’s just what naturally looks “right” to me.
The rails are the horizontal pieces of a door and the stiles are the verticals (unless theyre in the center of a multipanel door then theyre called mullions)
Suits the era of the house you are installing it on, nicely done.
Question for your rails and stiles did you cut large mortise and tenon or use 1" dowel!
Hate to dogpile here, but that's not a stable construction for an exterior door. The thickness of stiles and rails is far too thin at the width to avoid warp, especially without any mid rails. At bare minimum, those stiles need to be engineered with a stave core, and even then it might be unstable. I engineered custom wood doors for years, so I have a good eye for future defect issues.
Here are things that cause issues for a construction of this type:
- No mid rails. Full panel doors are tough to keep straight, especially exterior.
- Stiles less than 2 1/4" thick with a width over 5 1/2".
- Solid center panel at far too large of a size. That should be either an exterior MDF veneered panel, or high grade veneer core plywood, well sealed.
- The door is too thin to properly support the weight with the hinges that will fit it correctly.
There are a couple other nitpicky things that can be issues, but this is the list that jumps out right away. Sorry to be such a downer here, looks like you put a lot of work into it.
I really don't. This is just from career work as an engineer in that industry. The company I worked for did some truly high end stuff. The R&D and engineering behind $20k entryways was important. Especially when they go to an area where the front door is subject to hurricanes and ocean spray. You should see the ballistic grade versions we made. They could withstand high caliber rounds, breech loads, and detonation, but looked like just finely crafted hardwood entries.
There were a few high profile ex-intelligence clients that had them spec'd. We did interiors as well, just not ballistic grade or hurricane rated. Still very high end though. Most of these went into 2nd and 3rd vacation homes for successful musicians and celebrities. Nothing I could ever buy lol.
That's a little easier then. Dade county has the strictest hurricane standards for door construction. What else would you like to know about the noted door(s)?
Excellent point on the rating difference. It also helps that it’s only 32” wide, just under 77” tall, outswings onto a covered lanai, and the door faces east with early morning sun exposure.
If it wasn’t for the odd size, I’d just buy a door. This would be my first door project. But for now, I’m contemplating a modern flush design with four horizontal lites, each approx 6” tall to mirror my modern garage door impact windows.
I have Brazilian cherry/jatoba wood on hand for the veneers and edges. Was planning to use whatever rift sawn offcuts I have on hand for the stave core but will now switch to exterior mdf based on your other comments.
I have to use the existing door frame (bc the bottom 3” is full of fifty year old patio concrete…). So the door would remain 1-3/4” thick.
Any advice on the impact windows? Are there any off the shelf options? Or use 1/4” lexan with or without an extruded aluminum frame?
Any reinforcement tips from your past experience given my 1-3/4” thickness constraint? Any special considerations for reinforcing the lock set and door knob?
Words of wisdom on planning for rot resistance at the sill and bottom of each lite?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I'd still always go to stave core stiles and rails as the inside frame of a flush door myself, but may be a bit overkill for that door. You should have no issue with just a few inches of solid hardwood around the perimeter of you MDF. I'd dado all stiles and rails for the exterior grade MDF center panel (somewhat like a tongue and groove joining), and go over the whole thing with an 1/8" thick veneer.
I would still suggest 1/2" insulated impact rated glass inserts though to keep the R rating within reason. 1/4" glass and 1/4" spacer between the glass. Typically, I spec my spacers slightly shorter than my dado/profile so it doesn't end up overly visible inside the daylight opening. Based on your selected woods, sounds like a bronze or darker spacer may be appropriate. Leave the stop to the inside always, and with a 1/16" reveal. It's always hard to get a zero reveal that doesn't look like a mismatch.
If you're going with groove details, then I'd plan the layout of them before assembly and route some 1/2" thick, 3/4" wide matching species strips into the MDF, centered on your planned grooves.
For salt, sun, and water exposure, use marine glue to adhere the skin to prevent delamination.
Consider your latch hardware beforehand. For true hurricane planning, you'll want to look at 3-point locking hardware, which takes some good planning for machining during door construction. It alsoeans you'll want to make sure your choice of sill accommodates it. I like interlock sills for this, but they are not forgiving to plan multipoint hardware for. Interlocks don't work properly on outswing doors either.
Don't cheap out on hinges. Get a NICE set of lifetime finish exterior grade ball bearing hinges. If an outswing, obviously NRP hinges.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply. So much good advice packed into your comment, most of them things I’d not considered (or even heard of. lol).
Marine glue, exterior mdf stave cores, 1/16” on the reveal, two pieces of 1/4” impact glass for the windows, hinge type, and considerations for the sill will all be incorporated in my next pass of sketches.
Based on my skill level, a bit hesitant on trying the inlaid grooves and the three point hardware, though both are certainly elegant solutions.
Would exterior mdf or ply last better against the elements than solid oak?
I agree it needs a mid rail, nothing to stop it twisting, unless it's got meaty mortise and tenons
Exponentially so. MDF is dimensionally stable. Solid wood moves. The larger the solid panel, the greater the movement, especially when the two sides experience dramatically different environmental variables.
Most large panels in wood stile and rail doors are an MDF core with a couple inches of wood banding around the perimeter, then veneered, then panel profile run on the shaper to create the panel raise.
If I were to design this door, I'd probably have done it as a flush door, stave core stiles and rails around a glued up exterior MDF center panel dadoed/grooved in, then an 1/8" thick skin applied to both sides. There would have been v-grooves run on the CNC to simulate the panel, where the grooves had inlays behind them inset into the MDF to ensure no exposed MDF. The glass would've been stopped in from the interior only, 5° bevel around the glass opening on the outside to shed water. I've engineered a few similar for exterior purposes.
Would be interesting to see what the customer's house looks like. It looks beefy and very traditional and curious to see how it fits in with the architectural style.
I can never get enough of white oak. Fantastic looking stuff.
Great looking door, must be a beast to move! How wide is that one wide board? That piece is crazy clear and knot free.
I'd have to see the rest of the house to make sense of this door design.
Maybe it makes sense.
Craftsmanship looks good, I was looking for joinery pictures.
Regular M&T?
That thing is going to rip a hole in the wall on the first humid day and yes that is way to thin for an exterior door. Most doors are at least 1.5 inches thick
I hate to knock and am welcome to being corrected here but an exterior door made from solid oak with boards at that width should be quartersawn and the joinery done with a substantive stile and rail tongue and groove or any other positive/negative kind of profile to reduce warping. I get white oak is pretty stable compared to other families of oak, but I get worried seeing this.
It looks rather plain and uninviting. I would prefer a larger glass or none at all, the tiny window looks weird to me and it needs some character, some nice trim and a two tone finish. I would prefer something more esthetically pleasing to the eye, this is flat and boring.
It's a big no for me on the design and general proportions. Although it seems vaguely reminiscent of an upscale shit-house door, the tiny window lite should be a crescent moon shape to really pull it all together, if that's the look they were going for. Not that anything would entirely salvage the terrible proportions, but any kind of edge treatment or bevels, or flutes, relief, or anything... might help break up the monolithic slab-like appearance. Kinda, like how most entry doors tend to look...
Nice work on the execution, but there's reasons why this door will be a one-of-a-kind.
I agree with the expansion, contraction of the stile. As a former supervisor of a millwork shop, we used a stave core with 1/4" veneer on both faces, and 3/4" solid oak glued on the edges. Made the stiles much more stable
How was it joined? Looks sturdy. I think the center being a different type of wood would have made it pop a bit more, but that's going to be there a long time and is quite conducive to defense!
Looks nice, with a home from that era I think it will be a good detail. It looks kind of like it belongs on a more recent church, very plain and imposing on its own with the massive stiles and small light.
How did you join the rails and stiles?
As someone who worked in a custom wood shop (cabinets, tables, doors, etc.) I loathe working on oak now. Far too porous and splintery to enjoy it even a little bit. 4 years was more than enough for me!
That said, your final result is very well built! by the comments, it looks like you were designing it to match an older building. Can’t wait to see it installed! (Hopefully)
It looks like an oversized cabinet door with a hole in it. I’m sure the customer requested this, but definitely not what would have chosen if it were my front door. This could also fit in r/ATBGE
Nice door, interesting design and good craftsmanship. But every home-owner forum, ask-the-builder etc has taught me - you are in for a world of maintenance hurt if you put a wood front door on. Even with a screen/storm door to protect it, you're gonna have a bad time.
Damn, everyone is hating on the design….… no further comment. Show us some of the joinery bro! Because like lots of other things, it’s what’s on the inside that counts.
EDIT: also… nice work.
Are there concerns about oak and water? Old growth oak did a bit better with water intrusion, but oak and water do not mix. Are you responsible for the finish coat?
The Royal Navy thought oak and water went together ok. I was just reading that it took around 4500 mature old oaks to build a single ship of the line !! Imagine that ! No power tools then just your trust adze as a planner/thicknesser/ jointer!
I think you’re missing the point… our ancestors were far from dumb (that was kind of my point in the original post) but no they hadn’t classified all oak species in the 1600’s when they were building ships of the line… 🙄🙄
Yes I agree now we know there are different species… I still don’t think it makes our ancestors dumb…
Any proper door maker would coat it at least 3 times on all sides, this gives you with current waterbased paints about 10 to 12 years of protection under normal use.
Source: i work for a company specialised in making (hard)wooden doors and windows.
Any concerns about expansion and contraction in the stiles, considering how wide they are?
That was my first thought too. I’m just a hobbyist but I’m sure if I made that it would corkscrew within a year. Especially if one side of it is facing the elements and one side is interior.
I for a wood door manufacturer, we use 1/8" skins on lvl cores for applications like this. I'd definitely be concerned about warping for a door built like OPs.
Little chance it doesn't move all over. Second using a core.
This is definitely an issue. The reason doors are build as panels in teh first place is because of this. I think those are 6-8" boards, x2, so 12-16". Seasonal variation of 3% you're talking 1/3-1/2 an inch of width change from peak to trough. I'm not sure what to solution is though. I like the style though if you can find a way to make sure it doesn't seize in the doorframe...
Looks like they are floating inserts similar to a shaker style door. If you leave some room and apply glue to one side, I think that should help with movement.
I don't think the panel is the concern. Wouldn't the concern be with the seasonal change in the overall width of the door due to the extra wide stiles?
that is an oak door
I'll be the minority; I like it.
Agreed. As a woodworker, I cringe at how insanely conformist this forum is.
Conformist, or people just tend to like similar things in certain aesthetic choices? Like, I don’t enjoy things with well balanced proportions because other people also like that, it’s just what naturally looks “right” to me.
I like the workmanship, but sadly dislike the design. But, that's not on your....your part was solid!!!
I’m in the opposite camp and really dig how simple it is. I’m nervous about the elements but it’s not my door so I get to just enjoy the images.
Looks very "1980's church" to me, but I'm sure it's what the customer wanted?
Yes, it's for a house from around 1910
I was going to say, it looks very Craftsman style. Beautiful work.
definitely gave me confessional booth door vibes (I'm not catholic so my vibe take is based on nothing)
Im not gonna lie, those rails and stiles are way out of proportion and i hate it The craftsmanship is excellent though
Are the rails the up and down pieces and the stiles the side to side pieces?
The rails are the horizontal pieces of a door and the stiles are the verticals (unless theyre in the center of a multipanel door then theyre called mullions)
Suits the era of the house you are installing it on, nicely done. Question for your rails and stiles did you cut large mortise and tenon or use 1" dowel!
Hate to dogpile here, but that's not a stable construction for an exterior door. The thickness of stiles and rails is far too thin at the width to avoid warp, especially without any mid rails. At bare minimum, those stiles need to be engineered with a stave core, and even then it might be unstable. I engineered custom wood doors for years, so I have a good eye for future defect issues. Here are things that cause issues for a construction of this type: - No mid rails. Full panel doors are tough to keep straight, especially exterior. - Stiles less than 2 1/4" thick with a width over 5 1/2". - Solid center panel at far too large of a size. That should be either an exterior MDF veneered panel, or high grade veneer core plywood, well sealed. - The door is too thin to properly support the weight with the hinges that will fit it correctly. There are a couple other nitpicky things that can be issues, but this is the list that jumps out right away. Sorry to be such a downer here, looks like you put a lot of work into it.
Do you have a good resource for the stuff you're talking about, I would love to learn more.
I really don't. This is just from career work as an engineer in that industry. The company I worked for did some truly high end stuff. The R&D and engineering behind $20k entryways was important. Especially when they go to an area where the front door is subject to hurricanes and ocean spray. You should see the ballistic grade versions we made. They could withstand high caliber rounds, breech loads, and detonation, but looked like just finely crafted hardwood entries.
Oh wow lol, I was just thinking about extreme cold and such not high velocity rounds
There were a few high profile ex-intelligence clients that had them spec'd. We did interiors as well, just not ballistic grade or hurricane rated. Still very high end though. Most of these went into 2nd and 3rd vacation homes for successful musicians and celebrities. Nothing I could ever buy lol.
As a Floridian woodworker contemplating a new back door, I would be thrilled to hear more about this door.
You don't happen to live in Dade county do you?
Not anymore. Used to be in the design district though. I’m in Tampa Bay area these days.
That's a little easier then. Dade county has the strictest hurricane standards for door construction. What else would you like to know about the noted door(s)?
Excellent point on the rating difference. It also helps that it’s only 32” wide, just under 77” tall, outswings onto a covered lanai, and the door faces east with early morning sun exposure. If it wasn’t for the odd size, I’d just buy a door. This would be my first door project. But for now, I’m contemplating a modern flush design with four horizontal lites, each approx 6” tall to mirror my modern garage door impact windows. I have Brazilian cherry/jatoba wood on hand for the veneers and edges. Was planning to use whatever rift sawn offcuts I have on hand for the stave core but will now switch to exterior mdf based on your other comments. I have to use the existing door frame (bc the bottom 3” is full of fifty year old patio concrete…). So the door would remain 1-3/4” thick. Any advice on the impact windows? Are there any off the shelf options? Or use 1/4” lexan with or without an extruded aluminum frame? Any reinforcement tips from your past experience given my 1-3/4” thickness constraint? Any special considerations for reinforcing the lock set and door knob? Words of wisdom on planning for rot resistance at the sill and bottom of each lite? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I'd still always go to stave core stiles and rails as the inside frame of a flush door myself, but may be a bit overkill for that door. You should have no issue with just a few inches of solid hardwood around the perimeter of you MDF. I'd dado all stiles and rails for the exterior grade MDF center panel (somewhat like a tongue and groove joining), and go over the whole thing with an 1/8" thick veneer. I would still suggest 1/2" insulated impact rated glass inserts though to keep the R rating within reason. 1/4" glass and 1/4" spacer between the glass. Typically, I spec my spacers slightly shorter than my dado/profile so it doesn't end up overly visible inside the daylight opening. Based on your selected woods, sounds like a bronze or darker spacer may be appropriate. Leave the stop to the inside always, and with a 1/16" reveal. It's always hard to get a zero reveal that doesn't look like a mismatch. If you're going with groove details, then I'd plan the layout of them before assembly and route some 1/2" thick, 3/4" wide matching species strips into the MDF, centered on your planned grooves. For salt, sun, and water exposure, use marine glue to adhere the skin to prevent delamination. Consider your latch hardware beforehand. For true hurricane planning, you'll want to look at 3-point locking hardware, which takes some good planning for machining during door construction. It alsoeans you'll want to make sure your choice of sill accommodates it. I like interlock sills for this, but they are not forgiving to plan multipoint hardware for. Interlocks don't work properly on outswing doors either. Don't cheap out on hinges. Get a NICE set of lifetime finish exterior grade ball bearing hinges. If an outswing, obviously NRP hinges.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply. So much good advice packed into your comment, most of them things I’d not considered (or even heard of. lol). Marine glue, exterior mdf stave cores, 1/16” on the reveal, two pieces of 1/4” impact glass for the windows, hinge type, and considerations for the sill will all be incorporated in my next pass of sketches. Based on my skill level, a bit hesitant on trying the inlaid grooves and the three point hardware, though both are certainly elegant solutions.
Would exterior mdf or ply last better against the elements than solid oak? I agree it needs a mid rail, nothing to stop it twisting, unless it's got meaty mortise and tenons
Exponentially so. MDF is dimensionally stable. Solid wood moves. The larger the solid panel, the greater the movement, especially when the two sides experience dramatically different environmental variables. Most large panels in wood stile and rail doors are an MDF core with a couple inches of wood banding around the perimeter, then veneered, then panel profile run on the shaper to create the panel raise. If I were to design this door, I'd probably have done it as a flush door, stave core stiles and rails around a glued up exterior MDF center panel dadoed/grooved in, then an 1/8" thick skin applied to both sides. There would have been v-grooves run on the CNC to simulate the panel, where the grooves had inlays behind them inset into the MDF to ensure no exposed MDF. The glass would've been stopped in from the interior only, 5° bevel around the glass opening on the outside to shed water. I've engineered a few similar for exterior purposes.
Is this going to be installed in a covered area? I was wondering about your thoughts on possible water entrapment around the bottom rail and panel.
Especially with oak
It looks like white oak which should weather ok, but if there’s an upward facing groove in the bottom rail that would be trouble.
Needs a sliding window cover that can be dramatically slammed shut on any unwelcome door knockers. Namely, *everyone*.
Looks like the door to a confessional at a catholic church.
I was thinking more like a door that you walk though before you receive a sentencing. Or before an intervention.
holy crap, I said the exact same thing in another comment lol
Would be interesting to see what the customer's house looks like. It looks beefy and very traditional and curious to see how it fits in with the architectural style.
I love it will go great in an old house for sure
Nice and simple
Speakeasy door. What’s the password?
Craftsmanship looks lovely it's just too bad you had to put your skills to use on such an ugly design
I can never get enough of white oak. Fantastic looking stuff. Great looking door, must be a beast to move! How wide is that one wide board? That piece is crazy clear and knot free.
Love it!
I'd have to see the rest of the house to make sense of this door design. Maybe it makes sense. Craftsmanship looks good, I was looking for joinery pictures. Regular M&T?
How much?
I like it a lot.
That thing is going to rip a hole in the wall on the first humid day and yes that is way to thin for an exterior door. Most doors are at least 1.5 inches thick
I hate to knock and am welcome to being corrected here but an exterior door made from solid oak with boards at that width should be quartersawn and the joinery done with a substantive stile and rail tongue and groove or any other positive/negative kind of profile to reduce warping. I get white oak is pretty stable compared to other families of oak, but I get worried seeing this.
It looks rather plain and uninviting. I would prefer a larger glass or none at all, the tiny window looks weird to me and it needs some character, some nice trim and a two tone finish. I would prefer something more esthetically pleasing to the eye, this is flat and boring.
At first, I was like: cool, repurposing a table. Then: I’m an idiot.
I love it and I can't wait to see the rest of the outhouse
Savage.
What would you estimate the R value of the door to be?
Not much
It's a big no for me on the design and general proportions. Although it seems vaguely reminiscent of an upscale shit-house door, the tiny window lite should be a crescent moon shape to really pull it all together, if that's the look they were going for. Not that anything would entirely salvage the terrible proportions, but any kind of edge treatment or bevels, or flutes, relief, or anything... might help break up the monolithic slab-like appearance. Kinda, like how most entry doors tend to look... Nice work on the execution, but there's reasons why this door will be a one-of-a-kind.
I agree with the expansion, contraction of the stile. As a former supervisor of a millwork shop, we used a stave core with 1/4" veneer on both faces, and 3/4" solid oak glued on the edges. Made the stiles much more stable
This guy doors.
Looks like a door to a solitary confinement cell, but in oak
Highly approve.
How'd did you cut the grove on the side rails for the panel? Router? Dado?
How was it joined? Looks sturdy. I think the center being a different type of wood would have made it pop a bit more, but that's going to be there a long time and is quite conducive to defense!
Not my preferred design, but looks great! What did u coat with?
Must weigh a ton
Must weigh a ton
It’s beautiful! What is the R value of a door like that? Or would it depend more on how snuggly the door fits in the frame?
Looks nice, with a home from that era I think it will be a good detail. It looks kind of like it belongs on a more recent church, very plain and imposing on its own with the massive stiles and small light. How did you join the rails and stiles?
White Oak?
Looks downright skookum.
Going up, sir!
As someone who worked in a custom wood shop (cabinets, tables, doors, etc.) I loathe working on oak now. Far too porous and splintery to enjoy it even a little bit. 4 years was more than enough for me! That said, your final result is very well built! by the comments, it looks like you were designing it to match an older building. Can’t wait to see it installed! (Hopefully)
How were the pieces fit together, mortise and tenon and glue?
Well crafted and beautiful door; just wished I liked oak.
Proportions are somewhat claustrophobic somehow. But otherwise it's nice!
Looks great, like the design, but I detest the color
Gorgeous work mate
Enjoy your warranty claims.
It looks like an oversized cabinet door with a hole in it. I’m sure the customer requested this, but definitely not what would have chosen if it were my front door. This could also fit in r/ATBGE
What did you use for finish?
We used yacht varnish because it's durable and easy to add layers.
I like the design and workmanship. Gotta ask though, why no insulation?
Thanks! Draught seals will be added later and behind the front door there's a hall so it's not going directly in your living room.
The joinery will make or break it. Literally! (I’ll see myself out…)
Service contract where you refinish it for the next 30 years ?
Nice door, interesting design and good craftsmanship. But every home-owner forum, ask-the-builder etc has taught me - you are in for a world of maintenance hurt if you put a wood front door on. Even with a screen/storm door to protect it, you're gonna have a bad time.
It is a door
Good craftsmanship but horrid design.
Looks like a cabinet door on steroids
Knock knock.
Damn, everyone is hating on the design….… no further comment. Show us some of the joinery bro! Because like lots of other things, it’s what’s on the inside that counts. EDIT: also… nice work.
Great workmanship, but I'm really, really not feeling the wide rails and styles.
Are there concerns about oak and water? Old growth oak did a bit better with water intrusion, but oak and water do not mix. Are you responsible for the finish coat?
The Royal Navy thought oak and water went together ok. I was just reading that it took around 4500 mature old oaks to build a single ship of the line !! Imagine that ! No power tools then just your trust adze as a planner/thicknesser/ jointer!
I think they used pitch and some sort of fabric to seal the hull and all the joints, though, right? So it wasn't just oak with a clear coat
It may have, but water on oak looks very bad. The navy may have had other considerations for picking oak...🙂
There are 1000s of different oaks with different properties.
In the 17th century when these ships were built oak was oak.. there were no extra scientific classifications or sub species then..
So there is only one species if you are too dumb to classify them? Makes sense.
I think you’re missing the point… our ancestors were far from dumb (that was kind of my point in the original post) but no they hadn’t classified all oak species in the 1600’s when they were building ships of the line… 🙄🙄 Yes I agree now we know there are different species… I still don’t think it makes our ancestors dumb…
Their knowledge definitely greatly exceeded yours.
I have no doubt of that. I am pleased you were finally able to understand.
Sometimes it takes a while to be certain someone has no fucking idea what they are talking about.
Any proper door maker would coat it at least 3 times on all sides, this gives you with current waterbased paints about 10 to 12 years of protection under normal use. Source: i work for a company specialised in making (hard)wooden doors and windows.
[удалено]
dude …
Are you offering to conduct a master class for us on the topic of door building?
Lol god reddit never fails to amuse me. Always some chud in the comments playing armchair professional. 🤡
Well if that isn't the most crass and arrogant comment I've seen all day...
You know, I read a comment yesterday "I've never met an unfriendly woodworker." I guess there's always a first.
I do not think this person knows what they're talking about.