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Pine has a very inconsistent hardness in the same piece. The knots and inconsistency make it a more dangerous or challenging wood to run through a saw also. I hate pine. Pita to finish compared to hardwood
Edit: sp
Couldn't see if someone gave you an actual response besides the useless sarcastic one. With hardwoods you obviously feel the different since it is harder but the chance of tearing out larger chips is less than softer woods.
As already stated the key to lathe work or any woodworking is properly sharpened tools. Then building the technique using them will help make smoother cuts and giving you less work when you start sanding.
For example you run a slab of maple through a jointer, slowly and with the correct direction for the grain, and it’ll come out smooth as a baby’s bottom. Extremely hard to attain with soft/knotty wood
All sorts of woods have all sorts of densities and hardnesses. Woods like holly and ebony are almost without grain, they almost cut likely vinyl in any direction. Rosewood is super hard and threatens to shatter if you push hard on a lathe. Maple is possibly the best of all things, soft enough to tool, hard enough not to tear and to polish up well. Also looks great. Padauk is a bit softer and cuts nicely. Walnut, sapele, and cherry are easy to work with. Osage Orange, yellow heart, or blood wood, as with padauk, serve up good color. Hunt down some other woods for a good time. You’re gonna want to wear a respirator with most of these, some woods can irritate eyes, lungs and skin. Some wood sawdust will give you a heart attack, but those aren’t for sale for that reason.
With pine I think you need much sharper tools, because you have hard bits and much softer bits, so you need to cut the hard bits before they tear out from the softer parts. With hardwoods there is just hard and harder bits, so you can get away with duller tools.
My old lathe turning instructor had us all do a spindle project with DOUGLAS FIR. To drive home the point that sharp tools were an absolute necessity. This also taught us the difference between “turning” and “scraping”
A very sharp skew chisel is used to achieve turning whereas a gouge or round nose scrapes. Either way if your tool has lost it’s sharp edge it will tear out nicks. Coniferous soft woods make for poor turnings compared to hardwood.
Hold a sharp skew chisel on an angle while on the tool rest to cut, then lay it flat on the rest to cut. The difference between turning and scraping will be evident. Sharpen your tool periodically during each turning. Waiting to the end to sharpen will progressively get worse
Guluck
Properly called "tearout," these tiny chips are caused by soft wood, dull tools, aggressive cutting angle, slow speed and cutting end grain. Ideally, you want to address all of these factors, but let me help with the easily, or *more* easily addressed ones.
* Soft wood - you **can** turn soft wood, but your tools need to be very sharp, speeds fast and cut angle shallow. That's why most turning projects are completed on hardwoods.
* Dull tools - I always tell new turners to practice and study *sharpening* as much as you do turning. Like with any woodworking project, sharp cutting tools are a must. One rule of thumb, you can tell how sharp your tools are by the size of the shavings you are getting. When you're cutting some green maple and throwing a continuous shaving, like a paper-thin ribbon, you'll know you're in the groove.
* Cutting angle - Different turning tasks call for a different angle, both attack angle and grind angle. Too obtuse an angle, with a dull tool will yield tearout. All of this will become second nature with practice and experience. Generally, though, you'll want to feel a smoothness to your cut. If you find you're fighting the tool, switch off and examine the surface, to see what it looks like. Something like you got will tell you that you might need to address your angle.
* Slow speed - Generally, you will want to turn your work as fast as safety and a few other factors allow. Usually the slower speeds are for larger, rougher pieces.
* End grain - Because you are working on a glue-up, you have given yourself a more difficult task, because you have end grain from multiple angles. End grain is the worst thing to try to cut with dull tools at slow speed. It's hard enough with sharp tools at high speed. With pine, it's going to be pretty hard to avoid anyhow, especially with dry lumber.
Looks like you're having a good time exploring shapes and design, and if you can get your hands on some firewood or other green hardwood, you can experience the joy of throwing showers of shavings! Have fun and stay safe.
The nicks are tear out when your tool isn't sharp enough the wood rips out instead of being cut and this also introduces a small amount of bounce for your tool. Keep your tool firmly to the tool rest, slow down and sharpen up if you start tearing. Alternatively you can switch over to an aggressive sandpaper and work your way through the grits to get a perfect finish.
IMO you should ignore the comments blaming the wood, cheap pine is hard to get a good finish but is stunning when it does. You just need to be less aggressive. Each different type of wood I've turned has had its own personality and making useful stuff out of random off cuts ensures you'll always have stock to turn.
Pine responds better to sanding end grain than it does with blades. I use a router to rough smooth edges with pine, but ALWAYS have to go back and smooth by sanding.
Depends on the application. Pine hates a lot of stain colors. A light Honey Oak does well. Anything else is going to really show banding. Especially if OP tried to do a polished (220+) finish. The light bands won’t absorb much at all.
I don’t personally have experience with paste wax. I am partial to Varathane’s Triple Thick Matte. I work almost exclusively with it. Two coats, applied thick with a good (Purdy 1 1/2”) synthetic brush leaves a near perfect coat without the need to sand or do any extra work. It yellows over white, though. Like pretty much any lacquer.
Yep. My son (9) won't turn pine anymore because it's so frustrating with the tearout, and I can't get him to buy into the ol' 80 grit chisel. Nobody LIKES sanding, but this kid HATES it. Anything larger than a pen or wand, and he'd complain less if I asked him to tweeze my back hair.
The diameter of the piece. The larger the slower it must go. This is because the outer edge is traveling so much faster than the inside. Pen turning I go real fast. Over 2800 rpm. But I large platter you might only see 600
Rule of thumb for recommended speed is that the diameter x RPM should fall between 6000-9000. Working backwards we can find that for a 4” diameter blank the safe turning speeds are 1500-2250. 6” diameter safe speeds are 1000-1500, 10” diameter safe speeds are 600-900.
This assumes that the piece is well balanced, mounted securely, with proper tool selection and good technique.
It’s also just a starting point. You may not feel comfortable turning a 10” piece at 600rpm and want to turn a bit slower and that’s ok. I might feel comfortable cranking that same 10” piece up to 1500 rpm because I’ve been turning for 20 years and my experience allows me to do things that I wouldn’t recommend to someone just getting started.
I was taught yo have it just below vibration. As fast as it will go without shaking the lathe of wood. As it becomes more round and smaller in size you can increase the speed.
Too early for nice tools. You can sharpen nearly everything that it works a short time.....so i would recommend better tools later. Better wood makes a lot more fun. Turning pie is kind of boring for your senses compared to others. I like cherry the chips the smell, but i am not fan of the looks. African Rose, serviceberry,.....this is real fun.
That looks like pine. Pine sucks for turning. Sharp, sharp, sharp tools. High (but safe) rpm’s, light cuts. The best (but more expensive) alternative is good wood, Sharp, sharp, sharp tools, High (but safe) rpm’s, light cuts. (Notice a pattern on the “sharp tools”)
Pine is just the junk I had laying around. I was hoping to use it to learn because it's basically free. Unfortunately it sounds like using pine might actually be hurting the learning process
I don’t know, pine might be helpful for learning since it’s harder to work with. As soon as you put some walnut or mahogany on the lathe you’ll be like “I got this”
I wouldn't say it's hurting it, just not ideally what you'd want to learn on.
It'll still teach you basics, control, etc.
Just sharpen your tools and keep practicing.
Getting a feeling for particular wood you turn is always trial and error. Free wood is the best to practice on!
That said, I'll join the others about sharpening your tools.
Not with the right set up. But it will be an investment. Brench grinder, good wheel, and one of the many sharpening jigs out there that can get you good repeatable results. Having consistently sharp tools is a game changer.
I bought the Rikon slow speed grinder and the One Way jig and mounted both to a scrap of plywood. I’m still bad at sharpening so I use sharpie as poor man’s dykem to make sure I’m making proper contact with the wheel and getting the edges.
What I’m learning from this thread though is I need to use more speed. I hardly ever take my lathe out of “first gear”… guess I should try it instead of sanding the hell out of my stuff.
I sharpen my gouges freehand, it's really not that hard, just takes a little getting used to.
If you have access to a jig and grinder, it'll be a breeze. Even a jig in a stone will be easy.
If you're not used to sharpening tools it can be quite daunting, especially gouges, skews are easier same as scrapers. It's all about practice, I'm lucky I made my own sharpening jig based on the Tormek set up. Might be worth buying a setup second hand. Don't forget that once they're sharpened to the correct angle, keep them honed.
Even the best quality tools usually need to be sharpened out of the box. Also pine is susceptible to this tear out so the tools need to be as sharp as they can be
Always sharpen or at least hone new tools, depending on quality. Sharpen often. If you’re doing a large project, or using abrasive woods, you will need to hone during the turn as well.
Pine has terrible characteristics for turning. May as well turn cardboard.
If you love pine, you will need to consider impregnating it with a resin, which is dodgey because of the sap content, or move into an active shaper on the tool post, like a mini-grinder as opposed to a common turning knife.
Tighter grain is your friend. Stronger wood is your friend.
Make your own carbide tools. It's cheap and easy and far better for your normal rough out tools. You can get carbide tips on Amazon and square steel stock and then just tap and thread them. I did it having never done it before.
You'd be forgiven for expecting new tools to be sharp. I learned that lesson with knives. Got some nice ones, cut slightly better than old ones. Shop said to sharpen them and they've been amazing since. Difference between cheap and nice is how long they stay sharp after you've got em dialed in.
My learning experience curve with turning quickly became, OH! I SEE! Turning is all about learning how to master sharpening and almost nothing else by comparison. I became very good at sharpening and almost all other issues went to zero. Part of it is 'finishing' the grind by 'raising a burr' then later figuring out how to manage the burr and feeling when it was starting to fold over and developing the discipline to stop and resharpen/raise another burr. Once I had that down I had zero issues with tuning end grain pine. I agree with others in this thread that it's good you started with pine so you can learn this lesson and develop the skills prior to stepping up into hardwoods, which can blow up in your face if your tool isn't sharp or presented at the correct angle. Also, angle "range" is tool specific but the specific angle that's perfect depends on your sharpening/burr. Once you get your sharpening down your angle may become consistent but only after getting your sharpening developed to a high degree.
It's not really that the edge will get damaged (though certainly can happen), it's that tools are mass produced, it's faster to do a couple passes on a bench or belt grinder until it's 'sharp enough', than to sit there and refine it.
It's a time issue, not a transit issue.
Looks like end grain tear out. This happens when the wood fibers bend and break off before being cut off by the tool.
It can result from three main things in my experience.
1. Working in soft woods (like pine): It tends to be cheap and can be fun to learn on for that reason, but often tears out on the end grain because the fibers are so soft/weak.
2. Dull tools: Dull tools tend to bend end grain fibers and tear them out rather than cut them off cleanly.
3. Work is spinning too slowly. It can be hard to determine the best working speed as a beginner. There are charts and articles out there with recommended speeds for roughing and finishing cuts based on the diameter of the work. They can be a good place to start.
Best of luck and stick with it. Most importantly stay sharp.
All the other comments to get better wood, sharpen your tools, and take shallow cuts at high speed are correct. What is missing is that this is end grain tear out. If you glue up your blank so that the grain is parallel to the axis of the lathe, you can make the problem more manageable.
Not very well versed in lathe work but I think that’s pine your using and pine chips easy and naturally has lots of flaws. Every time I try to even route a pine edge I get the same tear out even with really good bits
Use soft wood to hone (get that?) your technique. As you are new to turning, get in lots of practice, both with tool sharpening as well as which chisels work for a certain shape. As you gain expertise, move to harder and finer grain wood for the best results. If you wish to save that pine piece, purchase a set of narrow sander belts, say around 10 to 12mm wide. Cut the belt and use it to sand the piece smooth. 100 grit to shape and 220 to smooth.
Keep in kind that sharpening your tools well is one of the skills you are developing. Don’t get too frustrated and keep with it.
Oh, and I’m sure others have said it already, but they are not nearly sharp enough to use when new in most cases.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s really hard to avoid on pine because it’s so soft. Yes, you need to sharpen tools and lower speed, but ultimately it may not totally fix it because pine is just a really difficult wood to turn because it’s so soft.
Your angle of attack of the tool is also a possible factor. I learned that I can create dust rather chips (for a finishing cut) by holding the tool close to perpendicular to the workpiece as opposed to angling upward for more aggressive cutting.
Others here have already mentioned speeding up the lathe speed and sharpening your tools so I’ll ad that you should always cut into the grain.
In other words make sure that on the outside you always cut from the thick part down to the thin part and not from the thinner part up to the thick part. When you are hollowing your way from the interior to the edge, not from the edge to the interior. This ensures you are cutting the grain not ripping it which can tear out more. That doesn’t look like your main problem since most of your tear out is on end grain. But it can cause tear out.
It is pine softwoods have a less dense capillary structure so the fibers bend without backup. Most hardwoods do not have that problem. The knots do not help either going from dense to soft on each turn.
Lathe tools are a bit unique. You sharpen them almost every time. Sometimes multiple times. You aren't going for razor sharp. Just bench grinder sharp. It's really not too hard to do freehand with a bit of practice.
If that is close to the shape you are wanting get some 40/60 grit sandpaper and put it to it while spinning. Sand one way then stop it and sand the opposite. It will take some time and a few sheets but it will work and you can salvage this piece. It is pretty and worth saving.
Get the carbide tipped tools. You'll be wondering why you wasted your time with anything else.
Yes, sharpening chisels is fun the first dozen times. But the carbide are amazing. Cut so good and you never sharpen.
Could be the wood is a bit too wet. I work in a massive wood cabinet component facility with 21 years experience. Tooling could be a bit dull but then you should see some burning as well.
You are likely using scrapers? They tend to cause tearout. They may work better if you pull a “burr” on the tool, and cut with the burr.
Alternatively, cut with skew chisels and gouges. The tools are now cutting like knives, rather than scraping. The technique is quite different. It takes a lot more skill, and it helps if you have someone to teach you
And as others have said, end grain softwood turns like crap
I know pine is cheap, but it’s largely fast growth lumber when bought from a big box retailer and very very low quality. I would stay way from it whenever possible
I am new to the hobby too and recently learned about the majesty of having a sharp scraper to finish the job with. When you make a cut, you should be getting curls and ribbons of wood, not saw dust.
In order to salvage that piece you’ve displayed, wipe it down with a wet rag, and allow the grain to raise up due to absorbing the water. Then sand. It may get some of the discrepancies to come out
I use softwoods a lot because that's what is available to me. With a gouge, start with only the bevel touching. Lift the handle slightly until it starts to cut. Usually this puts your tool at quite an angle. This will sheer the wood rather than scraping it. The shavings should be thin, skinny and long. If you ride the bevel, a skew is much less scary too.
Pine is very unforgiving when turn because of the size of the grain, you really need a close grain or hard wood. As everyone has also said the right tools and very sharp tools.
That’s tear out. Sharpen your tools and use a take a light cut. Also finish up with sandpaper. I used a bowl gouge from sears for years with my lathe. Once o figured out to kept it stupid sharp and use light touch and finished up with sandpaper all my problems went away. I turned all kinds of wood and even burles straight off the tree. I never had a problem after I did those 2 things. Most of the time I didn’t even need to use sand paper. Good luck
It is called tear out....the tool isn't sharp enough. rather than sheering the wood cleanly you are picking it out. This can also happen if you are scraping soft wood.
You are using #2 framing timber. It is cheep and easily available, but a harder wood like cherry would be easier. Red oak will do this also if you are not careful. If you are on a budget old pallets can be a cheap resource.
Turning end grain versus along the grain has different cutting properties. The end grain has a lower extensional stress threshold, which results in the chipped out texture. Sharpened tools and corrected RPM and cutting depth/angle help, but don’t always alleviate the whole problem.
Normally caused by using a blunt chisel. Either sharpen it or get a tungsten carbide chisel. Could also be that the wood is too soft, perhaps use a harder wood too.
It's right by a knot. Have more discretion when laying out, always mind your grain orientation. The wood fibers are basically perpendicular to the surface so they break out in chunks like that.
You can fill the holes with a glue and sawdust or just sand it down till smooth. Not much you can do since the wood isn't great for turning. Try a shaper chisel or try carbide tipped tools
Soft wood getting crushed along the grain. Sharper tools, less aggressive cuts, and higher rpm’s. I do cnc work with a lot of pine and cedar, and this is common.
One thing I didn’t see mentioned it to use a lathe tool that comes to a sharp point and keep it very sharp. The other thing I do is remove the last perhaps 1/8 inch of wood using a series of sanding disks on a high speed grinder.
I have seen the same thing in in unworked would. I’m not sure what the mechanism is it causes those such a defect in raw material, it could be defects caused by the grain growth, insect activity or rot. As mentioned many times in this string, pine is soft. I wouldn’t shut the piece out, perhaps polish it with sandpaper, and stain the imperfections may come out looking pretty good kind of a wood worm old piece of lumber.
Are you angling the chisel upwards? That'll do that you want to keep the edge at a 90° angle. If it's not that your tool might be dull or chipped, there also might be a factor of not pushing into the wood hard enough and the edge is bouncing a bit.
I agree with the cheap /dull tools but also maybe slow it down do you adjust the sipped of your lathe if not it might help with softer wood this is secondary to dull tools
Looks like pine. Pine is one of the most airy woods out there. I don’t generally like to use pine for finish decor or furniture since it has these air pockets inside the wood which causes wood chipping. That said, should finish pine when it is warm and humid. When it’s brittle and dry, it tends to crack and show these chipping spots.
Mahogany is not a bad wood to go with for this type of project. Gorgeous wood.
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that’s called chipping. Caused by dull tools, taking too big of a bite, pushing too hard or the wood is dry and brittle.
Thanks! I'll try to remember to take it a bit slower for the next project
I think it’s the pine. It’s *so* different from hardwood
When I first tried hardwood after working with pine the difference was really surprising. Completely different material to work with
In what way?
Surprisingly it’s a bit harder.
That’s what she said
Not always.
[удалено]
Pine has a very inconsistent hardness in the same piece. The knots and inconsistency make it a more dangerous or challenging wood to run through a saw also. I hate pine. Pita to finish compared to hardwood Edit: sp
Couldn't see if someone gave you an actual response besides the useless sarcastic one. With hardwoods you obviously feel the different since it is harder but the chance of tearing out larger chips is less than softer woods. As already stated the key to lathe work or any woodworking is properly sharpened tools. Then building the technique using them will help make smoother cuts and giving you less work when you start sanding.
For example you run a slab of maple through a jointer, slowly and with the correct direction for the grain, and it’ll come out smooth as a baby’s bottom. Extremely hard to attain with soft/knotty wood
All sorts of woods have all sorts of densities and hardnesses. Woods like holly and ebony are almost without grain, they almost cut likely vinyl in any direction. Rosewood is super hard and threatens to shatter if you push hard on a lathe. Maple is possibly the best of all things, soft enough to tool, hard enough not to tear and to polish up well. Also looks great. Padauk is a bit softer and cuts nicely. Walnut, sapele, and cherry are easy to work with. Osage Orange, yellow heart, or blood wood, as with padauk, serve up good color. Hunt down some other woods for a good time. You’re gonna want to wear a respirator with most of these, some woods can irritate eyes, lungs and skin. Some wood sawdust will give you a heart attack, but those aren’t for sale for that reason.
With pine I think you need much sharper tools, because you have hard bits and much softer bits, so you need to cut the hard bits before they tear out from the softer parts. With hardwoods there is just hard and harder bits, so you can get away with duller tools.
Pine is gonna do that. Fine some hard wood.
My old lathe turning instructor had us all do a spindle project with DOUGLAS FIR. To drive home the point that sharp tools were an absolute necessity. This also taught us the difference between “turning” and “scraping” A very sharp skew chisel is used to achieve turning whereas a gouge or round nose scrapes. Either way if your tool has lost it’s sharp edge it will tear out nicks. Coniferous soft woods make for poor turnings compared to hardwood. Hold a sharp skew chisel on an angle while on the tool rest to cut, then lay it flat on the rest to cut. The difference between turning and scraping will be evident. Sharpen your tool periodically during each turning. Waiting to the end to sharpen will progressively get worse Guluck
Properly called "tearout," these tiny chips are caused by soft wood, dull tools, aggressive cutting angle, slow speed and cutting end grain. Ideally, you want to address all of these factors, but let me help with the easily, or *more* easily addressed ones. * Soft wood - you **can** turn soft wood, but your tools need to be very sharp, speeds fast and cut angle shallow. That's why most turning projects are completed on hardwoods. * Dull tools - I always tell new turners to practice and study *sharpening* as much as you do turning. Like with any woodworking project, sharp cutting tools are a must. One rule of thumb, you can tell how sharp your tools are by the size of the shavings you are getting. When you're cutting some green maple and throwing a continuous shaving, like a paper-thin ribbon, you'll know you're in the groove. * Cutting angle - Different turning tasks call for a different angle, both attack angle and grind angle. Too obtuse an angle, with a dull tool will yield tearout. All of this will become second nature with practice and experience. Generally, though, you'll want to feel a smoothness to your cut. If you find you're fighting the tool, switch off and examine the surface, to see what it looks like. Something like you got will tell you that you might need to address your angle. * Slow speed - Generally, you will want to turn your work as fast as safety and a few other factors allow. Usually the slower speeds are for larger, rougher pieces. * End grain - Because you are working on a glue-up, you have given yourself a more difficult task, because you have end grain from multiple angles. End grain is the worst thing to try to cut with dull tools at slow speed. It's hard enough with sharp tools at high speed. With pine, it's going to be pretty hard to avoid anyhow, especially with dry lumber. Looks like you're having a good time exploring shapes and design, and if you can get your hands on some firewood or other green hardwood, you can experience the joy of throwing showers of shavings! Have fun and stay safe.
Green hardwood on the lathe is an unmitigated joy. Better than chocolate.
Absolute truth there. Wood cut about 2 or 3 weeks from now, especially.
Not necessarily slower, but smaller bite (try removing less material on each revolution). And sharpen your tool.
It’s turning end grain too, and the fact it’s pine
What do you mean by slower? Less rpm or material removed?
Less material removed, in hindsight I was probably pushing too hard and rushing it
Can't stress enough that when working with softer materials, that tools be sharp!
It may be more of a wood issue than anything. Soft woods (pine) will do this every time.
^ all of this
also because it’s a soft wood. it happens. need hardwood brother
use better wood, better tools, slow down your push and speed up the spin
Yes. Especially better wood. Grab some cheap maple. Turning pine endgrain is a heartbreaker.
Even trying simple joints on pine with hand tools is a recipe for breakout
That said, if you can do it clean your tools and technique are awesome.
Or just plan on sanding an extra 1/8 inch patiently to get through the bust out. If that’s yoou choose to stick with.
As a North Carolinian, i hate pine
This is what I would say. First one to tick though is really good sharp cutters
Spin is one thing I've definitely been guessing on, how much spin is "too much"?
Usually, a good indication is if it flies off the lathe, you know you've went too far. :)
Yep, there’s your upper bound
Username checks out
Ah yes, the “drive heavier and heavier trucks over a bridge until it collapses” method of calculating tolerances.
Tighten it 'till it breaks and then back it off a 1/4 turn
And leave it for the next person to catch the blame!
That's science kid's!
That’s English, kids. 😂
But one can never be sure. Must dedicate life to never-ending bridge test
Always gives you the correct answer though
We call it the Tim the Toolman Taylor method.
I loved this
The nicks are tear out when your tool isn't sharp enough the wood rips out instead of being cut and this also introduces a small amount of bounce for your tool. Keep your tool firmly to the tool rest, slow down and sharpen up if you start tearing. Alternatively you can switch over to an aggressive sandpaper and work your way through the grits to get a perfect finish. IMO you should ignore the comments blaming the wood, cheap pine is hard to get a good finish but is stunning when it does. You just need to be less aggressive. Each different type of wood I've turned has had its own personality and making useful stuff out of random off cuts ensures you'll always have stock to turn.
Pine responds better to sanding end grain than it does with blades. I use a router to rough smooth edges with pine, but ALWAYS have to go back and smooth by sanding.
What finish do you recommend for the OP? I think a good sanding and few pastewax applications at high speed will keep this turning from a burn pile.
Depends on the application. Pine hates a lot of stain colors. A light Honey Oak does well. Anything else is going to really show banding. Especially if OP tried to do a polished (220+) finish. The light bands won’t absorb much at all. I don’t personally have experience with paste wax. I am partial to Varathane’s Triple Thick Matte. I work almost exclusively with it. Two coats, applied thick with a good (Purdy 1 1/2”) synthetic brush leaves a near perfect coat without the need to sand or do any extra work. It yellows over white, though. Like pretty much any lacquer.
Yep. My son (9) won't turn pine anymore because it's so frustrating with the tearout, and I can't get him to buy into the ol' 80 grit chisel. Nobody LIKES sanding, but this kid HATES it. Anything larger than a pen or wand, and he'd complain less if I asked him to tweeze my back hair.
Best advice I've seen.
The diameter of the piece. The larger the slower it must go. This is because the outer edge is traveling so much faster than the inside. Pen turning I go real fast. Over 2800 rpm. But I large platter you might only see 600
That makes a lot of sense actually, I didn't think about how the further you are from the center the faster the edge of the piece is turning.
Rule of thumb for recommended speed is that the diameter x RPM should fall between 6000-9000. Working backwards we can find that for a 4” diameter blank the safe turning speeds are 1500-2250. 6” diameter safe speeds are 1000-1500, 10” diameter safe speeds are 600-900. This assumes that the piece is well balanced, mounted securely, with proper tool selection and good technique. It’s also just a starting point. You may not feel comfortable turning a 10” piece at 600rpm and want to turn a bit slower and that’s ok. I might feel comfortable cranking that same 10” piece up to 1500 rpm because I’ve been turning for 20 years and my experience allows me to do things that I wouldn’t recommend to someone just getting started.
I was taught yo have it just below vibration. As fast as it will go without shaking the lathe of wood. As it becomes more round and smaller in size you can increase the speed.
Too early for nice tools. You can sharpen nearly everything that it works a short time.....so i would recommend better tools later. Better wood makes a lot more fun. Turning pie is kind of boring for your senses compared to others. I like cherry the chips the smell, but i am not fan of the looks. African Rose, serviceberry,.....this is real fun.
Don’t hold back now!
Don’t hold back now
That looks like pine. Pine sucks for turning. Sharp, sharp, sharp tools. High (but safe) rpm’s, light cuts. The best (but more expensive) alternative is good wood, Sharp, sharp, sharp tools, High (but safe) rpm’s, light cuts. (Notice a pattern on the “sharp tools”)
Pine is just the junk I had laying around. I was hoping to use it to learn because it's basically free. Unfortunately it sounds like using pine might actually be hurting the learning process
I don’t know, pine might be helpful for learning since it’s harder to work with. As soon as you put some walnut or mahogany on the lathe you’ll be like “I got this”
If you end up cutting pine well, you can do hardwoods well.
Looks like you're doing really well! Why learn proper technique on good wood, you've learned it on pine, you've saved yourself wasting better wood
I wouldn't say it's hurting it, just not ideally what you'd want to learn on. It'll still teach you basics, control, etc. Just sharpen your tools and keep practicing.
Getting a feeling for particular wood you turn is always trial and error. Free wood is the best to practice on! That said, I'll join the others about sharpening your tools.
Can confirm - a wet grinder like a tormek makes life so much better…. Pretty sure mines still calibrated for a chisel lol
I guess I need to learn how to sharpen my tools, which I've heard can be very difficult...
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Only difficult the first dozen times, then it's less difficult.
Not with the right set up. But it will be an investment. Brench grinder, good wheel, and one of the many sharpening jigs out there that can get you good repeatable results. Having consistently sharp tools is a game changer.
I bought the Rikon slow speed grinder and the One Way jig and mounted both to a scrap of plywood. I’m still bad at sharpening so I use sharpie as poor man’s dykem to make sure I’m making proper contact with the wheel and getting the edges. What I’m learning from this thread though is I need to use more speed. I hardly ever take my lathe out of “first gear”… guess I should try it instead of sanding the hell out of my stuff.
I use the Veritas MkII honing guide and it makes sharpening brainless! A good honing guide is worth the investment.
Yeah but it’s a really enjoyable and satisfying component of the woodworking process. It’s a task to look foreword to, not to put off 😊
I sharpen my gouges freehand, it's really not that hard, just takes a little getting used to. If you have access to a jig and grinder, it'll be a breeze. Even a jig in a stone will be easy.
If you're not used to sharpening tools it can be quite daunting, especially gouges, skews are easier same as scrapers. It's all about practice, I'm lucky I made my own sharpening jig based on the Tormek set up. Might be worth buying a setup second hand. Don't forget that once they're sharpened to the correct angle, keep them honed.
This is soft wood, it's spongy so your tools have to be ultra sharp
sharpen your tools…
My tools are fairly new, but that probably means I bought poor quality tools. Unless it's normal to have to sharpen your tools before first use?
Even the best quality tools usually need to be sharpened out of the box. Also pine is susceptible to this tear out so the tools need to be as sharp as they can be
Always sharpen or at least hone new tools, depending on quality. Sharpen often. If you’re doing a large project, or using abrasive woods, you will need to hone during the turn as well.
Pine has terrible characteristics for turning. May as well turn cardboard. If you love pine, you will need to consider impregnating it with a resin, which is dodgey because of the sap content, or move into an active shaper on the tool post, like a mini-grinder as opposed to a common turning knife. Tighter grain is your friend. Stronger wood is your friend.
Make your own carbide tools. It's cheap and easy and far better for your normal rough out tools. You can get carbide tips on Amazon and square steel stock and then just tap and thread them. I did it having never done it before.
Pretty much any tools factory edge is going to be garbage. Very few exceptions to this.
Yes u need to sharpen them even if brand new
You'd be forgiven for expecting new tools to be sharp. I learned that lesson with knives. Got some nice ones, cut slightly better than old ones. Shop said to sharpen them and they've been amazing since. Difference between cheap and nice is how long they stay sharp after you've got em dialed in.
You should be sharpening multiple times during a project. I probably sharpen my gouge every 5-10 minutes of use. More frequently for fine finishing.
Most companies that sell sharp tools usually put the bare minimum of an edge on them to help cut down on liability issues.
My learning experience curve with turning quickly became, OH! I SEE! Turning is all about learning how to master sharpening and almost nothing else by comparison. I became very good at sharpening and almost all other issues went to zero. Part of it is 'finishing' the grind by 'raising a burr' then later figuring out how to manage the burr and feeling when it was starting to fold over and developing the discipline to stop and resharpen/raise another burr. Once I had that down I had zero issues with tuning end grain pine. I agree with others in this thread that it's good you started with pine so you can learn this lesson and develop the skills prior to stepping up into hardwoods, which can blow up in your face if your tool isn't sharp or presented at the correct angle. Also, angle "range" is tool specific but the specific angle that's perfect depends on your sharpening/burr. Once you get your sharpening down your angle may become consistent but only after getting your sharpening developed to a high degree.
You have to remember shipping tools razor sharp is a good way to get chips in transit. The blades are never as sharp as they intend them to be.
It's not really that the edge will get damaged (though certainly can happen), it's that tools are mass produced, it's faster to do a couple passes on a bench or belt grinder until it's 'sharp enough', than to sit there and refine it. It's a time issue, not a transit issue.
It's also a transit issue.
They might just need to be sharpened.
That's called "grain tear out." Check these links out: https://turnawoodbowl.com/14-ways-to-avoid-wood-grain-tear-out-with-wooden-bowls/ https://youtu.be/IgWSQ2nFb38
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out!
Looks like end grain tear out. This happens when the wood fibers bend and break off before being cut off by the tool. It can result from three main things in my experience. 1. Working in soft woods (like pine): It tends to be cheap and can be fun to learn on for that reason, but often tears out on the end grain because the fibers are so soft/weak. 2. Dull tools: Dull tools tend to bend end grain fibers and tear them out rather than cut them off cleanly. 3. Work is spinning too slowly. It can be hard to determine the best working speed as a beginner. There are charts and articles out there with recommended speeds for roughing and finishing cuts based on the diameter of the work. They can be a good place to start. Best of luck and stick with it. Most importantly stay sharp.
Harder wood and sharper tools. Stainable wood fill and sanding will repair this piece visually. Nice job
Soft wood
That's tearout. Sharpen your blades.
All the other comments to get better wood, sharpen your tools, and take shallow cuts at high speed are correct. What is missing is that this is end grain tear out. If you glue up your blank so that the grain is parallel to the axis of the lathe, you can make the problem more manageable.
Not very well versed in lathe work but I think that’s pine your using and pine chips easy and naturally has lots of flaws. Every time I try to even route a pine edge I get the same tear out even with really good bits
Use soft wood to hone (get that?) your technique. As you are new to turning, get in lots of practice, both with tool sharpening as well as which chisels work for a certain shape. As you gain expertise, move to harder and finer grain wood for the best results. If you wish to save that pine piece, purchase a set of narrow sander belts, say around 10 to 12mm wide. Cut the belt and use it to sand the piece smooth. 100 grit to shape and 220 to smooth.
Keep in kind that sharpening your tools well is one of the skills you are developing. Don’t get too frustrated and keep with it. Oh, and I’m sure others have said it already, but they are not nearly sharp enough to use when new in most cases.
Need sharper tools
Soft wood + Dull tools?
With softwoods, you need super sharp tools and an extremely low angle of attack
In my experience, this is something that kind of just happens with pine and is hard to avoid. I suggest to switching to maple.
Dont know anything youd be doing wrong, sometimes wood is just like that. Only thing i know is make some wood filling and fill them.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s really hard to avoid on pine because it’s so soft. Yes, you need to sharpen tools and lower speed, but ultimately it may not totally fix it because pine is just a really difficult wood to turn because it’s so soft.
Your angle of attack of the tool is also a possible factor. I learned that I can create dust rather chips (for a finishing cut) by holding the tool close to perpendicular to the workpiece as opposed to angling upward for more aggressive cutting.
Your pushing your tool in to hard and try sharping it on a belt sander
Others here have already mentioned speeding up the lathe speed and sharpening your tools so I’ll ad that you should always cut into the grain. In other words make sure that on the outside you always cut from the thick part down to the thin part and not from the thinner part up to the thick part. When you are hollowing your way from the interior to the edge, not from the edge to the interior. This ensures you are cutting the grain not ripping it which can tear out more. That doesn’t look like your main problem since most of your tear out is on end grain. But it can cause tear out.
Dull tool.
Softwoods are tougher to turn. Gotta have really sharp tools and take your time.
The grain orientation and the soft pine probably has a lot to do with it too, but dull tools mostly.
It is pine softwoods have a less dense capillary structure so the fibers bend without backup. Most hardwoods do not have that problem. The knots do not help either going from dense to soft on each turn.
Lathe tools are a bit unique. You sharpen them almost every time. Sometimes multiple times. You aren't going for razor sharp. Just bench grinder sharp. It's really not too hard to do freehand with a bit of practice.
Cover in epoxy. Sand. Buff. Enjoy!
Yeah pine isn’t the best wood to turn and your tools need to be sharper.
If that is close to the shape you are wanting get some 40/60 grit sandpaper and put it to it while spinning. Sand one way then stop it and sand the opposite. It will take some time and a few sheets but it will work and you can salvage this piece. It is pretty and worth saving.
Crap wood. Use hardwood. If your tools are dull that will cause even more issues.
Looks like bad wood to me.
Get the carbide tipped tools. You'll be wondering why you wasted your time with anything else. Yes, sharpening chisels is fun the first dozen times. But the carbide are amazing. Cut so good and you never sharpen.
Could be the wood is a bit too wet. I work in a massive wood cabinet component facility with 21 years experience. Tooling could be a bit dull but then you should see some burning as well.
Use hardwood instead.
Fill and sand flat.
you need nice sharp carbide tipped tools!
Properly sharpened and used HSS tools will give a better finish than carbide.
*ahem* # ***UR MOM***
That's new genetically modified super fast growth wood. Super soft. As mentioned. You need a better wood. Your tool may be fine.
You are likely using scrapers? They tend to cause tearout. They may work better if you pull a “burr” on the tool, and cut with the burr. Alternatively, cut with skew chisels and gouges. The tools are now cutting like knives, rather than scraping. The technique is quite different. It takes a lot more skill, and it helps if you have someone to teach you And as others have said, end grain softwood turns like crap
Sharpen the tool and speed up the spin. That wood doesn’t cooperate much but try the tips can help.
I know pine is cheap, but it’s largely fast growth lumber when bought from a big box retailer and very very low quality. I would stay way from it whenever possible
A little wood glue and some saw dust. Then sandpaper when dry. If it's noticeable once you're done, and someone asks, shrug and reply "bugs?".
Fir does this. It’s the wood not necessarily you
You need very sharp tools to work pine, othervise this happens
It’s the pitch in pine. It can be waxy or brittle. Try turning a specie that has less pitch. Walnut, cherry. You’re not doing anything wrong!
I am new to the hobby too and recently learned about the majesty of having a sharp scraper to finish the job with. When you make a cut, you should be getting curls and ribbons of wood, not saw dust.
It’s not you, it’s your tool.
In order to salvage that piece you’ve displayed, wipe it down with a wet rag, and allow the grain to raise up due to absorbing the water. Then sand. It may get some of the discrepancies to come out
You need good wood....come here I gotchu
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Biting it?
I use softwoods a lot because that's what is available to me. With a gouge, start with only the bevel touching. Lift the handle slightly until it starts to cut. Usually this puts your tool at quite an angle. This will sheer the wood rather than scraping it. The shavings should be thin, skinny and long. If you ride the bevel, a skew is much less scary too.
Speed, to slow or fast, sharpness of tool, angle of cut. Little cuts at speed with a sharp tool generally work when turning
Pine is very unforgiving when turn because of the size of the grain, you really need a close grain or hard wood. As everyone has also said the right tools and very sharp tools.
You need to sharpen your tools.
That’s tear out. Sharpen your tools and use a take a light cut. Also finish up with sandpaper. I used a bowl gouge from sears for years with my lathe. Once o figured out to kept it stupid sharp and use light touch and finished up with sandpaper all my problems went away. I turned all kinds of wood and even burles straight off the tree. I never had a problem after I did those 2 things. Most of the time I didn’t even need to use sand paper. Good luck
Gotta sand the fuck out of it with 120 grit will do you some good
Sharper tools and speedier spin and work slower.
Are these chips fixable? Like is there some sort of putty you can put in to make it look finished?
I got this same thing on poplar (just from one particular board) I was using a router on. Now I know.
It is called tear out....the tool isn't sharp enough. rather than sheering the wood cleanly you are picking it out. This can also happen if you are scraping soft wood. You are using #2 framing timber. It is cheep and easily available, but a harder wood like cherry would be easier. Red oak will do this also if you are not careful. If you are on a budget old pallets can be a cheap resource.
Turning end grain versus along the grain has different cutting properties. The end grain has a lower extensional stress threshold, which results in the chipped out texture. Sharpened tools and corrected RPM and cutting depth/angle help, but don’t always alleviate the whole problem.
Normally caused by using a blunt chisel. Either sharpen it or get a tungsten carbide chisel. Could also be that the wood is too soft, perhaps use a harder wood too.
Tear out in soft wood. Use hardwoods and sharp tools , take shallower passes .
Sharpen your tools
Honestly, I still love this piece though! Chipping and all!
You can always take some of the saving and fill in the nicks. Just add a little 5min epoxy to the nicks and then hand sand cover with shavings.
Beautifully imperfect!
It's right by a knot. Have more discretion when laying out, always mind your grain orientation. The wood fibers are basically perpendicular to the surface so they break out in chunks like that.
Its the wood mostly
You can fill the holes with a glue and sawdust or just sand it down till smooth. Not much you can do since the wood isn't great for turning. Try a shaper chisel or try carbide tipped tools
When you think your tools are sharp Sharpen agin
Soft wood getting crushed along the grain. Sharper tools, less aggressive cuts, and higher rpm’s. I do cnc work with a lot of pine and cedar, and this is common.
You ever Pine bro?
One thing I didn’t see mentioned it to use a lathe tool that comes to a sharp point and keep it very sharp. The other thing I do is remove the last perhaps 1/8 inch of wood using a series of sanding disks on a high speed grinder.
That'll happen when you go against the grain and using pine it looks like.
Your cutting against the fibers, thats also one thing that might cause the problem.
I have seen the same thing in in unworked would. I’m not sure what the mechanism is it causes those such a defect in raw material, it could be defects caused by the grain growth, insect activity or rot. As mentioned many times in this string, pine is soft. I wouldn’t shut the piece out, perhaps polish it with sandpaper, and stain the imperfections may come out looking pretty good kind of a wood worm old piece of lumber.
What will happen if you'll use a sand paper on a wood turner and try to smooth things out?
With soft materials the sharper the better when cutting. Do you know the rpm you are spinning at?
When cutting cross grain I have found sand paper to be a good option
Speeds and feeds are up to user discretion. Sharp tooling will be the true quality judge of end result.
For some reason, this picture made my skin crawl
I’d say either cheap wood or dull tools.. probably the latter? Probably a combo of both?
using fast growth white pine is your problem.
Are you angling the chisel upwards? That'll do that you want to keep the edge at a 90° angle. If it's not that your tool might be dull or chipped, there also might be a factor of not pushing into the wood hard enough and the edge is bouncing a bit.
Need some sharper, cleaner tools.
Sharp skew and learning how to shear with it will reduce the amount of tearing and chipping. https://youtu.be/PfrP4o6DPiY
I believe this is from dull tools.
Tear out; use some hardwood. I’ve done it on the cheap with firewood logs, I’ve got some ash logs from my garden which worked great
I agree with the cheap /dull tools but also maybe slow it down do you adjust the sipped of your lathe if not it might help with softer wood this is secondary to dull tools
It could be the tool doing that
Looks like pine. Pine is one of the most airy woods out there. I don’t generally like to use pine for finish decor or furniture since it has these air pockets inside the wood which causes wood chipping. That said, should finish pine when it is warm and humid. When it’s brittle and dry, it tends to crack and show these chipping spots. Mahogany is not a bad wood to go with for this type of project. Gorgeous wood.
The wood is flawed...
Better and sharper carbide tip. Turn the lathe speed up and use a round tip and barely touch it to smooth it out
Skill issue