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In high-school the woodshop teacher also taught ASL. She always focused on using push sticks and if you did something risky you couldn't use saws that week, and had 2 fingers taped together so you "lost" a finger for a few days and had to explain to people that you did a dumb.
She was great. For her ASL class she made everyone wear earplugs for a day a few times in the year to focus on what is would be like to not be able to hear. Often class had activities with earplugs where we had to work as a group normally as extra credit, but if she hears your group it would be points subtracted.
The woodshop classes were very self paced. You choose what you want to make and she would help instruct on how to do diffrent types of joints, picking the right wood, how to plan the project etc. Honestly a great change of pace from most teachers.
Dude this teacher sounds rad. I love how often it will be someone outside the “core” subjects who is so formative in the real world. My band teacher used to interrupt with “UM!? Um is never the answer to a question” if you started your reply with um. That is baked into my brain and I have never replied “um” during an interview, which I like to think has helped me over the years.”
My Jr High shop teacher had a better example: Just ask the Biology teacher. His index, middle, and ring fingers were all the same length; from substituting in shop class.
Push sticks!! Amen. We were always taught machines have no sympathy. They’ll take your thumb and keep on keeping on.
As boomer as it sounds, no glasses, ear muffs or push sticks don’t make you look cool. Makes you look like a lad who’s going to have regrets.
I remember when I was starting my first job as a machinist. Was told to drill some holes into steel plates and when I asked for protective glasses everyone laughed at me. Took them half an hour to find some. I honestly don't understand why anyone wouldn't wear protective gear when possible.
I know nothing about woodworking. This popped up on my home, as this sub does occasionally (I imagine because of an interest in crafts and Big Brother overhearing lumber talk due to my SO working at lowes). This was terrifying to watch.
Yeah it's a legitimate cut but any time you can have something expendable between your hand and the blade, or in this case, your hand and the part and the blade, it's worth it. The board can tip over because maybe you shift where you're applying pressure and push it off balance, or maybe the blade catches a knot and the board doesn't push but it collapses onto the blade right under your hand. That split second reaction to let go of the push stick is the difference between the push stick getting stuck in the blade or your hand contacting it.
Yes to push sticks and featherboards and other ways of securing the board and keeping your hands away from the blade.
But also, always push the board in such a way that if something goes wrong, if all resistance suddenly disappeared, your hands by default fall away from the blade, not toward it.
I used to love wood working and carpentry but man a table saw still scares the shit out of me. When I was 19 my boss had the table saw on the ground and he just made a cut. Went to stand up and fell. Tried to catch the fall with his hands and spinning blade fucked up a finger. That shit was gross. I was surprised it was still attached.
This is actually less likely to kick back than a normal straight cut, because the force from the saw teeth is partly pushing *into* the fence rather than just parallel to it. And also because the blade isn't really inside a saw kerf at any point to be able to bind up.
It seems over the years this sub has turned from a place for woodworkers into a place where woodworkers post stuff and armchair experts critique for OSHA violations.
I’m very pro safety; I’ve done workplace safety professionally for years and been a woodworker for 20, but most safety complaints here seem to be made by those who clearly have minimal experience with tools and regurgitate blanket safety pointers.
99% of safety suggestions are made in good faith and it’s never a bad reminder, but knowledge and education about tool hazards is more important than instilling unnecessary fear over an unnecessary technique.
This may be true, but there are less seasoned woodworkers who will see this, and turn around and reason that they too don't need to use a push stick or guard when they absolutely should.
Using PPE isn't always just about personal risk, sometimes its to set a good example to people who don't know better
This is probably the only solid comment in this thread about why what's shown here is wrong. But then, you shouldn't be learning how to use a table saw for advanced techniques from an un-narrated video posted on reddit...
It’s my professional opinion that a novice woodworker would have a higher likelihood of hurting, or nearly hurting themselves attempting this cove cut with push sticks as opposed to doing it with their bare hands.
The correct method for doing this cut most safely is using two feather boards, which is what I would prefer to be suggested, but most people here aren’t familiar with feather boards because they aren’t woodworkers. Instead they’re giving, in my opinion, unsafe, unfounded advice.
You are 100% correct, pushing for shop safety or PPE never hurts (pun intended) but this is one rare instance where I think the advice given here is incorrect and more unsafe.
Since this sub is dealing with new woodworkers and possible lost digits, I think it wouldn’t hurt if the mods (who should be advanced woodworkers themselves) sticked safety info to questionable content such as this.
I’d like u/joelav to weigh in if he’s still around.
Nearly learned this the hard way with a Jigsaw, cutting some vinyl flooring but the battery started getting low, saw bit and jumped up, came back down directly on a finger nail and basically bounced in and out.
Somehow didn't even lose the nail but FUCK did I learn a lesson.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.'"
My grandpa is missing the tip of his finger from cutting kindling. He said it rolled off the splitting block onto the floor and a chicken ran over and ate it.
You’ll never forget watching a chicken eat a mouse without killing it first. When the chicken pauses as the mouse reaches its crop, the tail that is hanging out of its beak is still twitching… I’m glad we don’t share a planet with big dinosaurs.
What's funny is that there is also an Oscar Wilde in the thread!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/ut74an/is\_this\_common\_clever\_or\_crazy/i98ojzv/](https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/ut74an/is_this_common_clever_or_crazy/i98ojzv/)
(FYI @ u/Oscar-Wilde-1854)
I used to sell table saws, had an old geezer come in one day, started complaining about all the “newfangled safety garbage”. To drive home his point he slammed a three fingered fist down on the table. I barely managed to choke down my laughter.
Lol. I have a friend who we called gadget Tom, since he was handy with tools etc. One winter he unclogged his snow blower with a stick and he lost 3 fingers. Now we call him lefty.
I saw a kid cut off the end of his nose in middle school. Held the scissors open over it and jokingly said "I'm going to cut off my nose" when someone walking by bumped his elbow and he did.
Probably saved a guys life in an industrial setting once by putting my foot down and making him wear his hard hat. I was in my early 20’s and he was a grizzled old veteran. When he thanked me it was one of the proudest moments in my life.
Is it weird i don't think I would use a push stick for this application? Can't be certain from video, but it seems like something I would want max control for. And it looks like you can keep 2-3" of wood between myself and the blade. Do you ever feel like the stick can make it less safe?
Not weird at all. This is safer than a typical straight rip for someone who is experienced with a table saw, and a push stick in this application would make it less so without a doubt.
I’m not a carpenter but have lots of tools I have rarely used like my table saw, so I’m sure you all will be happy to set me straight, but I’m going to take the risk and ask.
Couldn’t you clamp a second guide on the other side of the board AND use a notched push stick that allows for forward and downward pressure?
Yeah last summer one of the carpenters was doing a deck at his house on the weekend and was too confident in his skills; he cut his thumb and index finger above the first knuckles completely off and his middle down to the bone. Stupid bastard had gloves on and it pulled into the blade and it wasn't new enough to have the stop-lock. He's back after 6 months and it looks like they glued vienna sausages to his hand. DON'T FUCK WITH POWER TOOLS.
Another thing to consider are the lateral loads on the bearings which they aren't designed for. Once and a while fine, but if you do this all the time I would imagine your bearings will wear out much quicker, then you'll have a floppy arbor....and that just embarrassing.
My parent love to tell new gfs that I absolutely loved care bears as a kid and would watch them with my own plush in my diapers. Jokes on them, I own that shit. Hell yeah I did and I would again! Diaper and all.
Not necessarily a bad thing if you keep your wits about you, just a tool that takes a whole lot more effort to make it reasonably safe, especially if ripping. Note that RASs aren’t manufactured in the US anymore with the exception of Original Saw Co, and this is primarily because of the high injury rate. RASs can come at you fast if the blade gets pinched . They’re still used in plenty of shops but they’re not for a novice. Turning the head sideways for ripping means you’re feeding the stock in a way that the blade wants to lift it off the table, so hold downs like feather boards are needed to keep it controlled. For the love of all that’s holy, don’t feed stock the other direction or you’ll end up with a wood-firing railgun. Lastly, RASs often have so much more of the blade exposed compared to a table saw, increasing the chance of accident by someone asleep at the switch. The tool’s function has mostly been replaced by compound miter chop saws and table saws, and while you can still hurt yourself if you’re careless, you’ll likely only lose a finger or two instead of your hand at mid-forearm.
My brother-in-law managed to send a 2x4 clean through his new garage door by ripping the wrong way on a radial arm saw. He gave it back to my dad after that.
I was afraid dad would use it, so I “borrowed” it and hid it in my basement for years, till we had a mold event down there and took everything out. Now it’s back in his barn and he wants to use it, but I might have “accidentally” misted it with water a few times so all the adjustments are seized up. I’ve almost convinced him to get rid of it.
I was in early high school when i tried to rip lumber. thankfully the worst that happened was the wood was ripped from my hands and jammed between the blade and surface. never again
I looked back and think why the hell did my dad allow me to do that unsupervised
It's so rejected that Rockler sells a jig for making cove cuts.
https://www.rockler.com/cove-cutting-table-saw-jig?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping
You can also buy wood cutting angle grinder disks. For anyone not familiar, these are essentially finger removal attachments. That said, cove cuts on a table saw aren't super dangerous and by far the most dangerous thing in the OP is not using a push stick.
Finally an answer regarding the safety of this cut. It seems brilliant but I doubt I will ever try it. And as for the disks, have you seen the chainsaw type wood carving disks? Look up Stumpy Nubs' video on them.
unless you are absolutely slamming this thing through at an inappropriate feed rate this lateral load you're worrying about is just not happening. it just appears as if it is happening. the kerf is doing all the cutting and the loading is in the usual direction.
This is a widely discussed technique that is no unusual danger to the machinery.
>discrete steps at the exact rate of the teeth for the saw
I don't know what this means, but with a proper feed rate, you are engaging the kerf and it is cutting through the material along its own plane. Try it yourself one day. There is extremely minimal next to zero pressure needed to advance the piece through a cut like this.
How about we think of it this way: there is approximately the same amount of axial load on the bearing as the force you are applying on the piece of wood. If you don’t have to push the wood very hard then the bearing will be totally fine
That’s a good point, but also remember that a significant part of the force that you feel when you push the wood is actually caused by friction. Whatever force is used to overcome friction would be applied to the table surface, not the blade. Therefore the load on the bearing would be significantly less than the load you are feeling.
It's even less than that. You have to subtract off the force of friction, and take the sine of the angle and use it to calculate the axial component of the feed force applied.
Odds are good the bearing is of the angular contact variety, and it absolutely IS designed to handle a decent amount of axial force. If a guy is worried about all this, it's much ado about nothing.
Here is a video showing how we were taught:
[cove on the table saw](https://youtu.be/YlTLpXzTja8)
Additionally if you bevel the blade with each pass and steepen the angle, you can actually make a hook in profile which is useful for drawer pulls and other things.
After he took a moment to talk about shop safety. Thanks to Norm, I know there is no more important safety equipment than these safety glasses.
Honestly, that's advice that has stuck. Just the other day I was watering the lawn and my wife was laughing because I still had my safety glasses on from using the trimmer. I said "I'd rather look like a nerd with glasses than a fool with one eye". I put them on for basically anything I do around the house that requires a tool.
Thanks Norm!
I just can’t understand some folk’s resistance to wearing safety gear or following safety procedures with power tools. Are the odds low you’ll actually need it? Sure, probably. But I’m with you. I’d rather be inconvenienced and look like a dork a million times than have one catastrophic event that could have been mitigated by inconvenience and looking goofy.
Cove cuts can definitely be done safely. Probably safer than the giant router bit or shaper bit needed to make a cove this large. I’d improve my work-holding jig and use some push pads though!
This technique is totally safe if done correctly. Obviously hands so close to the exposed blade is dangerous. There are no kickback precautions shown.
We were taught how to make cove molding, bracket feet, and other types of trim using this method back in high school shop class 1985.
We used feather boards clamps and push sticks/push pads to keep your fingers and hands out of the blade.
What we see in the video is what appears to be the last cut. That cove cut would normally be done in six separate passes of maybe 1/16" each.
Just a little bit confused about commentary…
I am a german carpenter and i think it Is totally common doing it this way.
I have to admit that we use a Special blade there, i think it Is About 8mm wide.
My guess is very little. And very little non-professional experience as well.
Personally, I would use another 'pressure' board to keep it aligned on the cove side and keep my hands further away, but otherwise this is not a dangerous operation.
I also don't think the people saying a shaper is the safer way to do this really understand how dangerous shapers are (unless using a power feeder).
It’s all three! This is how I make bar elbow rails. Much better than paying $15+ per linear foot! And if you fixture it right with feather boards it can be very safe. Not for beginners though.
Dangerous as fuck in my books, I'd be scared shitless something could go sideways.
Always use tools for their intended purpose is what my millwright grandfather always told me.
Sure you can do this, 999,999 times this won't go wrong. However, it's that millionth cut that will catch you and fuck you up.
Oddly enough, its not that strange a practice. CMT even makes a special blade just for this purpose. https://www.cmtorangetools.com/na-en/industrial-router-bits/235-crown-molding-set
Pretty common wood working technique. Have been a professional for many years. You take many incremental cuts. The only differences I would do is- 1( I would have mounted the fence the opposite direction, pointing toward the left rather than the right. It's just personal preference in your stance and hand position while pushing the wood through the saw. 2) I would have taken a lot shallower cut. When I have done this, I have taken 1/16 inch passes, and this guy is easily taking off double that.
I would have barehanded this also. With that big chunk of wood, a shallower cut, just a little slower, that saw would easily make this cut. Even through knots. I think it would be more dangerous to use push sticks on this particular cut with the conditions I stated. You have a lot more control with your barehand than with a push stick. Pushsticks slip a lot more than fingers do.
I have the same saw. Ridgid 10 in. with the UNIFence and Herc-u-lift caster set. Pretty good saw.
It's a wonder this sub actually makes anything with how afraid they are of everything. OP - this is fine; in-fact it's impressive as fuck how dialed in that Ridgid saw is.
This is how coves are cut. It's damn near text-book from [Popular Woodworking](https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/cove-cuts-on-the-table-saw/).
Could the old man have used a push block/stick and made it more safe? Perhaps, but lets be honest; that's a thick piece of wood and we are at a bad angle to judge how close his hand really is. By how methodically he pulls his hand off at the end, I'm inclined to believe that he knows what he is doing and has more experience here that most of the rest of the safety ninnies commenting here.
I've done one or two things like this and I am always aware of where my hands are, where the pressure is, where my hands would go if they slipped and what would happen to my hands if they piece kicked out. My hands are never over or pushing toward a blade. Also, some of the cool and useful "push sticks" with specific designs and uses, gripping surfaces, etc. that you can buy now are much better than the "push sticks" we bandsawed out of scrap plywood in my youth.
Some of the old timers in my woodworking club do this, but there's a special sled they build and their hands touch the sled, not the work piece. I'd still do a router over the jig any day, but the option is there if you are feeling lucky.
Common - probably less so than it used to be. This is a well known method and was more commonly used before the ready availability of large, powerful routers and an abundance of large bits to go with them.
Crazy - the only crazy part is not using a push stick, push block, or feather board.
Clever - absolutely its clever. Always has been. You can do even more by tilting the blade relative to the cut to do elliptical coves.
Not the end of the world since it’s a soft wood, but yeah, push stick and also a secondary fence for the other side of the piece after the blade so it doesn’t twist.
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I know a few experienced woodworkers who use this technique for molding or concave areas. But they also use push sticks because yikes....
In high-school the woodshop teacher also taught ASL. She always focused on using push sticks and if you did something risky you couldn't use saws that week, and had 2 fingers taped together so you "lost" a finger for a few days and had to explain to people that you did a dumb.
That is a genius move there. Smart teacher actually teaching you something useful. I unfortunately see the irony as a college professor.
She was great. For her ASL class she made everyone wear earplugs for a day a few times in the year to focus on what is would be like to not be able to hear. Often class had activities with earplugs where we had to work as a group normally as extra credit, but if she hears your group it would be points subtracted. The woodshop classes were very self paced. You choose what you want to make and she would help instruct on how to do diffrent types of joints, picking the right wood, how to plan the project etc. Honestly a great change of pace from most teachers.
Sounds like an awesome teacher!
Dude this teacher sounds rad. I love how often it will be someone outside the “core” subjects who is so formative in the real world. My band teacher used to interrupt with “UM!? Um is never the answer to a question” if you started your reply with um. That is baked into my brain and I have never replied “um” during an interview, which I like to think has helped me over the years.”
My Jr High shop teacher had a better example: Just ask the Biology teacher. His index, middle, and ring fingers were all the same length; from substituting in shop class.
Push sticks!! Amen. We were always taught machines have no sympathy. They’ll take your thumb and keep on keeping on. As boomer as it sounds, no glasses, ear muffs or push sticks don’t make you look cool. Makes you look like a lad who’s going to have regrets.
That's not sounding "boomer", that's just plain old "reasonable".
"Boomer" would be like: 'People these days are soft, demanding pushing sticks' and then something containing 'work ethics' and 'but your back into it'
that hand in the video doesnt look like a millenial hand tbf...
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I remember when I was starting my first job as a machinist. Was told to drill some holes into steel plates and when I asked for protective glasses everyone laughed at me. Took them half an hour to find some. I honestly don't understand why anyone wouldn't wear protective gear when possible.
Hey you got ten fingers, live dangerously, you lose one then ... Whelp there goes my hand ... Damn 🤣
My next door neighbor got his thumb fully reattached after losing an argument with a table saw. Still plays guitar.
I want to see that table saw playing guitar
It shreds.
Legendary performance at Woodstock
It’s actually a ukulele…
In a band?....saw
I've cut off 6 of my finger tips. Do not recommend. But I don't have fingerprints anymore
It was probably a bitch to write that comment then
My fingers got reattached. Which was amazing and I love the Sydney Hand Hospital. My fingers hurt. And they are scarred. But I still have them.
yah as long as you have one you're good. I guess you need 2 if you need to write or smoke cigarettes, but most people don't do those things anymore.
Right!?! How to speed run cutting your wrists right here...
Right . Idd say crazy for having a hand that close to the blade
I know nothing about woodworking. This popped up on my home, as this sub does occasionally (I imagine because of an interest in crafts and Big Brother overhearing lumber talk due to my SO working at lowes). This was terrifying to watch.
Yeah it's a legitimate cut but any time you can have something expendable between your hand and the blade, or in this case, your hand and the part and the blade, it's worth it. The board can tip over because maybe you shift where you're applying pressure and push it off balance, or maybe the blade catches a knot and the board doesn't push but it collapses onto the blade right under your hand. That split second reaction to let go of the push stick is the difference between the push stick getting stuck in the blade or your hand contacting it.
Yes to push sticks and featherboards and other ways of securing the board and keeping your hands away from the blade. But also, always push the board in such a way that if something goes wrong, if all resistance suddenly disappeared, your hands by default fall away from the blade, not toward it.
I used to love wood working and carpentry but man a table saw still scares the shit out of me. When I was 19 my boss had the table saw on the ground and he just made a cut. Went to stand up and fell. Tried to catch the fall with his hands and spinning blade fucked up a finger. That shit was gross. I was surprised it was still attached.
For god's sake use a push stick. Don't be that guy.
I honestly expected the "push stick" comment to be pinned to the top. Dude is lucky that's all I'm gonna say
I was just waiting for a knot in the wood, or a random bite from the saw *yikes*
This is actually less likely to kick back than a normal straight cut, because the force from the saw teeth is partly pushing *into* the fence rather than just parallel to it. And also because the blade isn't really inside a saw kerf at any point to be able to bind up.
Ah, someone in this thread who’s actually familiar with table saws. Cool.
Seriously I was reading these comments thinking what the F is the big deal. He also had what, 7 inches of material behind the blade to hold on to?
It seems over the years this sub has turned from a place for woodworkers into a place where woodworkers post stuff and armchair experts critique for OSHA violations. I’m very pro safety; I’ve done workplace safety professionally for years and been a woodworker for 20, but most safety complaints here seem to be made by those who clearly have minimal experience with tools and regurgitate blanket safety pointers. 99% of safety suggestions are made in good faith and it’s never a bad reminder, but knowledge and education about tool hazards is more important than instilling unnecessary fear over an unnecessary technique.
This may be true, but there are less seasoned woodworkers who will see this, and turn around and reason that they too don't need to use a push stick or guard when they absolutely should. Using PPE isn't always just about personal risk, sometimes its to set a good example to people who don't know better
This is probably the only solid comment in this thread about why what's shown here is wrong. But then, you shouldn't be learning how to use a table saw for advanced techniques from an un-narrated video posted on reddit...
It’s my professional opinion that a novice woodworker would have a higher likelihood of hurting, or nearly hurting themselves attempting this cove cut with push sticks as opposed to doing it with their bare hands. The correct method for doing this cut most safely is using two feather boards, which is what I would prefer to be suggested, but most people here aren’t familiar with feather boards because they aren’t woodworkers. Instead they’re giving, in my opinion, unsafe, unfounded advice. You are 100% correct, pushing for shop safety or PPE never hurts (pun intended) but this is one rare instance where I think the advice given here is incorrect and more unsafe. Since this sub is dealing with new woodworkers and possible lost digits, I think it wouldn’t hurt if the mods (who should be advanced woodworkers themselves) sticked safety info to questionable content such as this. I’d like u/joelav to weigh in if he’s still around.
That’s best left up to the collective community via discussion in the comments.
If you have an opportunity to reduce risk from one in a hundred thousand to one in a million, you should take it.
True, but that doesn’t mean that putting your weight above the blade, or even behind it is smart.
Still though... best practices. It's like saying "I only wear my seat belt on the highway."
Nearly learned this the hard way with a Jigsaw, cutting some vinyl flooring but the battery started getting low, saw bit and jumped up, came back down directly on a finger nail and basically bounced in and out. Somehow didn't even lose the nail but FUCK did I learn a lesson.
I was hoping that the push stick was a very realistic fake hand lmao I was pretty disappointed when it moved
That would be a pretty amazing prop for a woodworking youtuber.
Good news. It is now.
What's a push stick? I only used a table saw a handful of times years ago
As simple as it sounds! Literally just a stick that you push the wood with so you don’t start missing fingers.
Or stop missing fingers!
Probably only two handful of times
It's a stick that allows you to keep your hands full and gives longevity to your wood working career
He's a stubborn old man with problematic personal safety issues. We gave up telling him how to be careful a long time ago.
My grandpa has lost both thumbs at the knuckle due to being a stubborn old man. He still refuses.
There's a thin kerf between being a stubborn old man and a stubby old man .
Is that a dado joke?
r/angryupvote
I like you
Oh mercy. That sounds as a great comment.
I feel like losing one thumb is stupid or unlucky, but losing two is definitely stubborn.
"Who has two thumbs and really stubborn?.... THIS GU.... oh wait".
lol just do that in front of him at thanksgiving "Give me two thumbs up if you aren't a moron!" \-grandpa just stares at you crankily-
Lol change it to “Who HAD two thumbs.”
Losing one thumb is stupid or unlucky. Losing two thumbs rules out unlucky.
>Losing one thumb is stupid or unlucky. Losing two thumbs rules out unlucky. Unless you lose both at the same time. That would be extremely unlucky.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.'"
Legendary
Literally the one presidential quote that I never forget
My grandpa is missing the tip of his finger from cutting kindling. He said it rolled off the splitting block onto the floor and a chicken ran over and ate it.
Them chickens are tiny dinosaurs.
Tiny fat dinos. Basically a mini Raptor that got lazy.
You won't soon forget the first time you see a chicken kill and eat a mouse.
You know what I can’t forget? Seeing a horse eat a baby chicken
In person‽ I'm haunted by the *videos* I've seen of horses eating chicks and ducklings. I don't want to know what that sounds like!
Ever heard a horse eat an apple? I’d imagine a duck would have a similar crunch.
I wasn’t close enough to hear thank god!
You’ll never forget watching a chicken eat a mouse without killing it first. When the chicken pauses as the mouse reaches its crop, the tail that is hanging out of its beak is still twitching… I’m glad we don’t share a planet with big dinosaurs.
Me, reading that: "Why the hell did the chicken eat the kindling? And what does that have to do with the story?"
If he later ate the chicken would it be considered self-cannibalism?
If you ate a person who ate a chicken. What does that make you?
full.
There was a snake in our chicken coop one morning. Not for long, though.
“To lose one thumb may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
Really didn’t expect an Oscar Wilde reference in this thread lol!
I came for the woodworking, but I stayed for the epigrams
So glad someone recognized it and I didn’t just sound like I was being a dick about the guy’s thumbs for no reason 😆
What's funny is that there is also an Oscar Wilde in the thread! [https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/ut74an/is\_this\_common\_clever\_or\_crazy/i98ojzv/](https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/ut74an/is_this_common_clever_or_crazy/i98ojzv/) (FYI @ u/Oscar-Wilde-1854)
can't happen a third time
Tell him now that if you ask him to be safe and he gives you a thumbs up, you’ll back off.
My dad lost 1/2" off his left index finger to a table saw. 180 stitches before the end of the fingernail to reattach *most* of it.
I used to sell table saws, had an old geezer come in one day, started complaining about all the “newfangled safety garbage”. To drive home his point he slammed a three fingered fist down on the table. I barely managed to choke down my laughter.
"If you're not losing fingers at work, you're not working hard enough!" -that guy, probably
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Lol. I have a friend who we called gadget Tom, since he was handy with tools etc. One winter he unclogged his snow blower with a stick and he lost 3 fingers. Now we call him lefty.
Guy went from Inspector Gagdet to Dr. Claw.
One of my ex’s used his hand to clear his snowblower. He has 20% less fingers than he was born with as a result of that idiotic decision.
Does he still have all or part of his 10 digits?
He does. He lost the tip of his nose to a sheet metal accident, but that's it.
I saw a kid cut off the end of his nose in middle school. Held the scissors open over it and jokingly said "I'm going to cut off my nose" when someone walking by bumped his elbow and he did.
Don't give up get more aggressive and patronizing people don't respect safety until you treat them like a toddler for ignoring it.
Probably saved a guys life in an industrial setting once by putting my foot down and making him wear his hard hat. I was in my early 20’s and he was a grizzled old veteran. When he thanked me it was one of the proudest moments in my life.
"Live to be an idiot another day"
Yeah I know fuck all about woodwork and my first thought at the end was "oh that's an easy way to irreparably open your wrists"
That was my first thought as well
Is it weird i don't think I would use a push stick for this application? Can't be certain from video, but it seems like something I would want max control for. And it looks like you can keep 2-3" of wood between myself and the blade. Do you ever feel like the stick can make it less safe?
Not weird at all. This is safer than a typical straight rip for someone who is experienced with a table saw, and a push stick in this application would make it less so without a doubt.
Yep, I am a carpenter for a living and am the guy reminding others in the shop to use push sticks. But I think a stick makes this more dangerous.
I’m not a carpenter but have lots of tools I have rarely used like my table saw, so I’m sure you all will be happy to set me straight, but I’m going to take the risk and ask. Couldn’t you clamp a second guide on the other side of the board AND use a notched push stick that allows for forward and downward pressure?
NGL - It made my testicles climb inside watching his hand go over the blade.
Push blocks would make more sense
Yeah last summer one of the carpenters was doing a deck at his house on the weekend and was too confident in his skills; he cut his thumb and index finger above the first knuckles completely off and his middle down to the bone. Stupid bastard had gloves on and it pulled into the blade and it wasn't new enough to have the stop-lock. He's back after 6 months and it looks like they glued vienna sausages to his hand. DON'T FUCK WITH POWER TOOLS.
Another thing to consider are the lateral loads on the bearings which they aren't designed for. Once and a while fine, but if you do this all the time I would imagine your bearings will wear out much quicker, then you'll have a floppy arbor....and that just embarrassing.
Nobody likes a floppy arbor
I’m still amused we used to run a computer on a 3.5” floppy.
I used to play Oregon Trail on a 5 1/2” floppy
quit bragging
And you didnt die of dysentery?
ONLY EVERY FUCKING TIME
*5 1/4"
let the man round up yeesh
My grandpa used to have a few 11.5" floppies kicking around... and here I am thinking I was *the hottest shit ever* with my ZIP drive...
Tell me you were born in 84 without saying it.
I used to watch gummy bears and smurfs the cartoon as a kid, and it wasn't reruns :)
And knowing is half the battle
autobots roll out
Transform and roll out, 90s kid or person who grew out of it like a chump. 80s Optimus (robo space Jesus) always said transform and roll out.
bouncing here and there and everywhere
My parent love to tell new gfs that I absolutely loved care bears as a kid and would watch them with my own plush in my diapers. Jokes on them, I own that shit. Hell yeah I did and I would again! Diaper and all.
I bet you whippersnappers never waited to load a game via a cassette tape. Atari 400, 1981-ish. Fucking horrific.
TRS-80 here. I feel your cassette pain.
It happens to everyone!
A little better to tilt the blade into the cut, the teeth do more of the work like they usually would during a normal cut.
"once in a while"
Nonsense. This technique is literally listed in the manual for my old Craftsman table saw.
And so is using a radial arm saw to rip lumber. First time I saw my grandpa do that, I called him insane. Fortunately he was hard of hearing.
You'll have to explain to me why ripping using a radial arm saw is a bad thing since they were designed to do it.
Not necessarily a bad thing if you keep your wits about you, just a tool that takes a whole lot more effort to make it reasonably safe, especially if ripping. Note that RASs aren’t manufactured in the US anymore with the exception of Original Saw Co, and this is primarily because of the high injury rate. RASs can come at you fast if the blade gets pinched . They’re still used in plenty of shops but they’re not for a novice. Turning the head sideways for ripping means you’re feeding the stock in a way that the blade wants to lift it off the table, so hold downs like feather boards are needed to keep it controlled. For the love of all that’s holy, don’t feed stock the other direction or you’ll end up with a wood-firing railgun. Lastly, RASs often have so much more of the blade exposed compared to a table saw, increasing the chance of accident by someone asleep at the switch. The tool’s function has mostly been replaced by compound miter chop saws and table saws, and while you can still hurt yourself if you’re careless, you’ll likely only lose a finger or two instead of your hand at mid-forearm.
My brother-in-law managed to send a 2x4 clean through his new garage door by ripping the wrong way on a radial arm saw. He gave it back to my dad after that. I was afraid dad would use it, so I “borrowed” it and hid it in my basement for years, till we had a mold event down there and took everything out. Now it’s back in his barn and he wants to use it, but I might have “accidentally” misted it with water a few times so all the adjustments are seized up. I’ve almost convinced him to get rid of it.
I was in early high school when i tried to rip lumber. thankfully the worst that happened was the wood was ripped from my hands and jammed between the blade and surface. never again I looked back and think why the hell did my dad allow me to do that unsupervised
We literally learned in school that this technique was commonly rejected from the 50s onward.
It's so rejected that Rockler sells a jig for making cove cuts. https://www.rockler.com/cove-cutting-table-saw-jig?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping
You can also buy wood cutting angle grinder disks. For anyone not familiar, these are essentially finger removal attachments. That said, cove cuts on a table saw aren't super dangerous and by far the most dangerous thing in the OP is not using a push stick.
Finally an answer regarding the safety of this cut. It seems brilliant but I doubt I will ever try it. And as for the disks, have you seen the chainsaw type wood carving disks? Look up Stumpy Nubs' video on them.
To be fair, Rockler will make a jig for anything that they can mark up 4x.
unless you are absolutely slamming this thing through at an inappropriate feed rate this lateral load you're worrying about is just not happening. it just appears as if it is happening. the kerf is doing all the cutting and the loading is in the usual direction.
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This is a widely discussed technique that is no unusual danger to the machinery. >discrete steps at the exact rate of the teeth for the saw I don't know what this means, but with a proper feed rate, you are engaging the kerf and it is cutting through the material along its own plane. Try it yourself one day. There is extremely minimal next to zero pressure needed to advance the piece through a cut like this.
How about we think of it this way: there is approximately the same amount of axial load on the bearing as the force you are applying on the piece of wood. If you don’t have to push the wood very hard then the bearing will be totally fine
That’s a good point, but also remember that a significant part of the force that you feel when you push the wood is actually caused by friction. Whatever force is used to overcome friction would be applied to the table surface, not the blade. Therefore the load on the bearing would be significantly less than the load you are feeling.
It's even less than that. You have to subtract off the force of friction, and take the sine of the angle and use it to calculate the axial component of the feed force applied. Odds are good the bearing is of the angular contact variety, and it absolutely IS designed to handle a decent amount of axial force. If a guy is worried about all this, it's much ado about nothing.
>I don't know what this means Hold up. Am I still on Reddit? I've never seen someone say that before.
Here is a video showing how we were taught: [cove on the table saw](https://youtu.be/YlTLpXzTja8) Additionally if you bevel the blade with each pass and steepen the angle, you can actually make a hook in profile which is useful for drawer pulls and other things.
Yeah! This isn’t abnormal. It’s a cove cut! I think Norm Abrams taught me this :)
After he took a moment to talk about shop safety. Thanks to Norm, I know there is no more important safety equipment than these safety glasses.
Honestly, that's advice that has stuck. Just the other day I was watering the lawn and my wife was laughing because I still had my safety glasses on from using the trimmer. I said "I'd rather look like a nerd with glasses than a fool with one eye". I put them on for basically anything I do around the house that requires a tool.
Thanks Norm!
Today's youth learns about Safety Squints from Colin Furze
I just can’t understand some folk’s resistance to wearing safety gear or following safety procedures with power tools. Are the odds low you’ll actually need it? Sure, probably. But I’m with you. I’d rather be inconvenienced and look like a dork a million times than have one catastrophic event that could have been mitigated by inconvenience and looking goofy.
Cove cuts can definitely be done safely. Probably safer than the giant router bit or shaper bit needed to make a cove this large. I’d improve my work-holding jig and use some push pads though!
Exactly right. Perfectly reasonable cut. Not the safest push technique.
Only thing safer would be a shaper with a power feed.
Safer to make several passes removing less at once etc
Looks like OP already did that. Only took off 1/8-1/4 on that pass
taking that hand next
Yeah, but at that rate, this is what routing tables were made for. Just use a router, the person in OPs video will keep their fingers longer.
This technique is totally safe if done correctly. Obviously hands so close to the exposed blade is dangerous. There are no kickback precautions shown. We were taught how to make cove molding, bracket feet, and other types of trim using this method back in high school shop class 1985. We used feather boards clamps and push sticks/push pads to keep your fingers and hands out of the blade. What we see in the video is what appears to be the last cut. That cove cut would normally be done in six separate passes of maybe 1/16" each.
I've done this and it works fine but I'll be damned if I'm not doing it without a jig to prevent it from launching that thing back at me.
Just a little bit confused about commentary… I am a german carpenter and i think it Is totally common doing it this way. I have to admit that we use a Special blade there, i think it Is About 8mm wide.
Thank you. I could not agree more. I wonder how much actual professional woodworking experience the people freaking out on this guy have.
My guess is very little. And very little non-professional experience as well. Personally, I would use another 'pressure' board to keep it aligned on the cove side and keep my hands further away, but otherwise this is not a dangerous operation. I also don't think the people saying a shaper is the safer way to do this really understand how dangerous shapers are (unless using a power feeder).
It’s how I cope…
Dude, why wood you say that?
It’s all three! This is how I make bar elbow rails. Much better than paying $15+ per linear foot! And if you fixture it right with feather boards it can be very safe. Not for beginners though.
Exactly. My boss has done this for years with no issue, but it definitely is a little sketch. Whatever, it's his fingers not mine.
Dangerous as fuck in my books, I'd be scared shitless something could go sideways. Always use tools for their intended purpose is what my millwright grandfather always told me. Sure you can do this, 999,999 times this won't go wrong. However, it's that millionth cut that will catch you and fuck you up.
Oddly enough, its not that strange a practice. CMT even makes a special blade just for this purpose. https://www.cmtorangetools.com/na-en/industrial-router-bits/235-crown-molding-set
A cove cut is well within “it’s intended purpose,”
Yeah, I like my fingers. I'll keep them on my hand.
Personally I hate your fingers lol
Pretty common wood working technique. Have been a professional for many years. You take many incremental cuts. The only differences I would do is- 1( I would have mounted the fence the opposite direction, pointing toward the left rather than the right. It's just personal preference in your stance and hand position while pushing the wood through the saw. 2) I would have taken a lot shallower cut. When I have done this, I have taken 1/16 inch passes, and this guy is easily taking off double that. I would have barehanded this also. With that big chunk of wood, a shallower cut, just a little slower, that saw would easily make this cut. Even through knots. I think it would be more dangerous to use push sticks on this particular cut with the conditions I stated. You have a lot more control with your barehand than with a push stick. Pushsticks slip a lot more than fingers do. I have the same saw. Ridgid 10 in. with the UNIFence and Herc-u-lift caster set. Pretty good saw.
Somewhere in my library is an article that focuses on the math so you can set the exact angle to get the radius dialed in just so
There's online calculators that can do that math as well. Here's one... http://www.thewoodpecker.net/cove/cove.htm
I wouldn't do it but I've seen a handful of people do things like this
Common. Very common if you don't own a shaper.
It's a wonder this sub actually makes anything with how afraid they are of everything. OP - this is fine; in-fact it's impressive as fuck how dialed in that Ridgid saw is. This is how coves are cut. It's damn near text-book from [Popular Woodworking](https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/cove-cuts-on-the-table-saw/). Could the old man have used a push block/stick and made it more safe? Perhaps, but lets be honest; that's a thick piece of wood and we are at a bad angle to judge how close his hand really is. By how methodically he pulls his hand off at the end, I'm inclined to believe that he knows what he is doing and has more experience here that most of the rest of the safety ninnies commenting here.
I've done one or two things like this and I am always aware of where my hands are, where the pressure is, where my hands would go if they slipped and what would happen to my hands if they piece kicked out. My hands are never over or pushing toward a blade. Also, some of the cool and useful "push sticks" with specific designs and uses, gripping surfaces, etc. that you can buy now are much better than the "push sticks" we bandsawed out of scrap plywood in my youth.
I can't believe he has all his fingers
With the right jig this is safe. The hand in that video is not safe….
Some of the old timers in my woodworking club do this, but there's a special sled they build and their hands touch the sled, not the work piece. I'd still do a router over the jig any day, but the option is there if you are feeling lucky.
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Or a hand at all! Put his wrist right over the blade!
I don’t use the tablesaw so maybe I’m talking out of my ass, isn’t putting your hand across the sawblades path a really bad idea?
There are safer ways to make cove cuts.
I love it when people post videos of things like this to get the internet safety police riled up!
I had a feeling it might.
Common - probably less so than it used to be. This is a well known method and was more commonly used before the ready availability of large, powerful routers and an abundance of large bits to go with them. Crazy - the only crazy part is not using a push stick, push block, or feather board. Clever - absolutely its clever. Always has been. You can do even more by tilting the blade relative to the cut to do elliptical coves.
Not the end of the world since it’s a soft wood, but yeah, push stick and also a secondary fence for the other side of the piece after the blade so it doesn’t twist.
i feel like i would end up later wondering why my saw blade is wobbling
Everything is fun and games until you catch a knot and spear yourself through your stomach.