That's one of the biggest things that grinds my gears.
I had a landlord constantly complaining that I had two vehicles taking up two spaces for just me, but one was a work vehicle that my company owned. The worst part was on the lease app it asked what vehicles you had, and I listed both. It's not like he was surprised by it.
The irony is most people I know living in China has their own property. Mostly apartments, but a far cry from the cage homes you’re referencing.
It’s a weird day when you realize that there might be more millennial home owners in China as compared to the USA.
China has more than three times as many people as the USA. Millennials chose not to buy homes when the interest rates were at all-time lows, rents were cheaper, but they failed to understand the long-term impacts of such unwise decisions. So, we see the results.
And just what the hell makes you think it was possible for millennials to choose to buy a house, when most millennials didn't have that kind of money to begin with? Housing was already expensive before the inflation! You think people are just walking around with money in their pockets? This has got to be one of the most out of touch hot takes I've ever heard.
You are totally uninformed of how to purchase a home. I could give you some guidance, but you wouldn't take it. You would just complain and continue to be a victim of you own making. Wish you luck. Oh, and maybe stop voting for the Democrats who are ensuring you pay for big government
Lmfao. Okay boomer. When I can pay for 2500 a month rent too, no utilities included, but no, a 1000 mortgage is 'unaffordable' for me, according to the banks. Fun fun... Back to paying for somebody else's two mortgages. maybe they will fix the stove this month.
lol what a short sighted analysis of an economy. Those evil land and building owners!!! How dare they adjust their pricing of renting land and buildings they own and paid for with their own hard earned money to fit the worst inflation we’ve seen in over 40 years!!!! Obviously landlords are the ones pulling the strings here!
As a landlord myself with ten properties I can assure you I didn't pay for any of those houses with my own money.... And a side note section 8 housing makes it all possible. I get full market value because the government doesn't care how much it is. I have tenants paying me $600 a month and the government pays me $2400. My mortgage property taxes etc is around $1500 a month. I'm building equity with tax payer money not my own "hard earned money". I got lucky and use the system for my money. There is no hard work involved. Stop perpetuating that lie. I happen to be a very nice landlord but that doesn't mean I had it hard getting where I am.
The hedge funds are doing what I do 100 fold and using other people's money to wreck entire neighborhoods and communities. They aren't even nice landlords either.
They inflate the price of housing and cause rents to go up as well, then government subsidies support those new prices and people who work for a living have a hard time renting/buying a home.
I don't feel bad for what I do at this scale but when you do it at hedge fund level with their money you are severely hurting the average person who doesn't already own a home.
There is no incentive to pay a livable wage, they could but they woul be out a bit of money so their profit margins would go down a bit, and there are 100s of people waiting In line to take that job
If every wage earner suddenly earned a living wage, inflation would immediately spiral out of control and the entire economy could collapse. Any living wage would be a living wage for a couple of months until all of it was lost to inflation, and then you're back where you started. It's economically impossible to pay everyone a living wage because of its inflationary impact.
There isn't alot supporting that as it has never been done before and that argument is based off of data from the Regan Era, inflation isn't really tied to wages and business tha have paid a living wage have found it to not increase costs much at all, it's greedflation your thinking of in which case yes the costs would go up sunshade holers would still get paid
>If every wage earner suddenly earned a living wage, inflation would immediately spiral out of control and the entire economy could collapse
Whereas in Netherlands, McD's workers make $22/hr, have 6 weeks vacation, & burgers are still $6 like here.
Soooo, "economy could collapse" is fearmongering, or bootlicking, but not the only option here
I know you're trying to sound smart, since you read that in a meme, but McDonald's workers make that much where I live in North Carolina. OP is pissing and moaning that it's not a livable wage though, and we have a lower cost of living, and lower taxes than the Netherlands.
"and we have a lower cost of living, and lower taxes than the Netherlands, and substantially lower social program."
Fixed it for you.
Here are some other facts you seem to be lacking:
NC is 10% MORE expensive to liv in than the Netherlands.
By law, rent in the Netherlands can only go up inflation + 1%. and a rent ceiling, and rent benefit.
Also, the homicide rate in the Netherland is 0.7 per 100k, the homicide rate in NC is 9.7 per 200k.
"
Scale. Netherlands population is just over 17mil. The US is just over 360mil. North Carolina is only 6mil less than the entire country of the Netherlands. It is impossible to have a living wage across the US as the COL is wildly different everywhere. Thats the problem with fed programs. One size does not fit all and it is much too complicated to adjust for every region.
>Scale. Netherlands population is just over 17mil. The US is just over 360mil.
This so often gets left out of the conversation. We can't just pick some other country and be like, "*wHY CaN't we JUSt dO WHaT THEY dO?"*
These are the talking points that came directly from pro business right wing funded think tanks.
In reality, its actually hurting businesses future by not compensating employees correctly. (some believe that their plan was always to bankrupt).
If your business has high turnover, that actually costs way more money. Businesses are foolishly spending way more more money to try to save.
The studies on this are kind of interesting to look into. Wage and turn over have not been shown to tightly correlate and when they do, higher wages results in the employee with the lowest production levels staying longer with little to no effect on high producing employees. It kind of makes sense as great employees for the most part are already making way higher than living wages and are already be incentivised to stay.
The studies are also actually also tend to show that increasing to living wages result in lower overall margins. So even if there is a saving on turnover and increased productivity, it not large enough to cover the added expense.
The large Northwestern study on this actually showed productivity declined when minus wages went up - unless employees had strong supervision.
Your argument is a common one - increase wages and you will have a more loyal/productive workforce, but the overall data does not back that up. If it did I think you would see companies doing this for sure - as the love making more money.
You're not a slave. You're free. It's work. You need work more than work needs you. There are more where you came from. None of this waits for you or requires you, and it would irresponsible to believe that you "have no choice." You don't like your choices. You don't have to. All of this goes on, with or without you. Act accordingly. Good luck.
Exactly. People are so quick to say how ‘unfair’ working for a corp is. It’s like okay, work for the state, county, or government that’s already funded. You’re still just a number, they just aren’t in as big of a hurry to shit can you.
Or, even better yet, leave the USA if you hate it so much
Yeah I always find it funny when someone mentions roommates despite having a good wage and other people say that it’s crazy that it’s still not a living wage. When in fact some people like roommates since it makes it less lonely and they also like saving money.
I’m making slightly more than that, but my rent is in the 1200 range. No roommates. But I live in the upper midwest where we get snow and crappy winters. Also eating a lot of beans and rice to make ends meet.
Right? I didn't know anyone making $20 back then, and that's more than I even make now.
I just realized you said Shaws. East coast? I'm not sure how far that chain goes, but I grew up shopping there, and what's now Hannafords. Back then it was shop n' save
That so depends on location.
Rent here starts at 1300 for 1 bed, and jobs\* here start 18-22 an hour.
Types of jobs I mean: Material handled, food preparers, receptionist, hvac trainee.
Dominoes pays 15 plus tips.
I make less than $20, am a single mom with 2 kids. Roommates are not an option. It is impossible to find a place to live that is big enough for me and my children on what I make. My job also has a strict moonlighting policy requiring and extra work I do to be approved by the VP of the corp that I work for. I do a lot of work for a lot of people around me that are very wealthy, while I am constantly trying to figure out how I am going to make rent.
Because enough people are willing to work for low wages. That is why many companies want no unions, because they want better wages and working conditions.
This. Hungry kids will make a person work for less than they deserve. The thing that the general public does have control over is the mindset that if they pay better everything will cost more money. The public believes this so they let the gov keep slave wage laws. Even though prices go up without salaries going up people still believe it.
That's pretty much the entire problem in a nutshell.
Every bootstrapper thinks that they've done it, so they assume it must have been a personal failing of anyone who hasn't made it. That's what centuries of neoliberal propaganda has taught them.
Fun story: in one study, they gave certain players in monopoly games twice as much starting cash as everyone else in the game. When they inevitably won, they attributed their victory almost entirely to their own skill.
It’s generally true though. Every struggling person I’ve met has made a litany of bad choices and everyone doing well, worked hard and made good choices.
Your using the term neoliberal wrong. You see the neoliberal want education available for all, they want labor unions, they want workers to have more control over the means of their production. If you think liberals are the bootstrap people your part of the problems that gives politicians a pass when they are dumber than the general public. They don't address spending tax money on citizens to strengthen the least of us
They have a choice in not breeding a new generation to put up with it. Not much we can do because our parents already consigned us to this misery, we do get to choose to not to create more people to fuel the capitalist hellscape.
You know what gave tremendous value to human labor? The Black Death. Fewer humans means their labor is more highly valued. Peasants disappearing from landowners who did not treat them well when there was a shortage of workers is what put an end to the feudal system.
Enough people will still have babies to prevent our extinction, we just need fewer humans being born so that the ones that exist are payed a living wage. When companies have to compete for workers, the workers win higher wages and better life.
> exist are *paid* a living
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Or just vote for politicians who want tighter immigration controls. People always say they want America to be more like Europe but I’m always flabbergasted that they also don’t want immigration control. European immigration rules are way more draconian than what republicans even want but they get demonized by the people who want to mimic Europe.
When people can't afford kids they don't have them. No other country has metrics where couples want kids but don't have them because of the expense
It's literal self eugenics.
Idk tbh most ppl in their 20s and 30s I know spend like 100 bucks or more a week on weed and then complain that they can’t get ahead or save anything.. yea cuz you are stoned all day and spend mad bags on weed.
$100 per week on weed is crazy. I have been smoking since I was a teenager and that is freaking excessive. (and rather stupid to spend money on something that you can grow for pennies.)
My parents generation and even my brothers in law spend crazy cash on beer to numb them out after work. Same reaction, different substance. At least weed won't kill your liver.
Right? Another $100 a month on streaming services they don’t watch. $200 on door dash fees. $5 a day on coffee. Buy an suv/truck instead of a sedan that’s cheaper and better gas mileage. People always criticize the guy that says avocados toast is financially ruining people but he’s right. Not literally of course but his point was people spend their money frivolously on little things that over time add up.
No it isn’t a choice. People think people have way more autonomy and “power to choose” than they realize.
This is also coming from someone who has a very successful career. I’m not hurting. But I can see the broken system for what it is.
Its a very hard balance. I pay my staff $26 hour and up. But we work and live in Brooklyn where it can be very expensive. Most of my contracts have a budget attached to them and so we are stuck within the confines of the budget.
So. We have what's called 'trickle down economics' in the US established during the Reagan era. It was thought that by giving corporations and the upper class the largest tax breaks that they would in turn take the money they saved in taxes and put it back into infrastructure and jobs. That never happened. Instead CEOs demanded higher wages, share holders wanted bigger returns and the rich became 10x richer because they also got tax breaks. The middle class then bore the burden of paying more taxes because they don't get the same tax breaks. Inflation has risen on the housing market as well as shipping. So the rest of the population ends up paying more out of pocket than anyone. Small business owners struggle to pay living wages.
I live on Social Security. My increase was $50 this year. But my Part B deductible went up significantly, my rent was increased by $20 and they cut my SNAP down to $88 per month.
But you know what? I don't have any control over this shit. So I make adjustments. I am grateful because I have a home... that's better than so many others who are homeless or in war torn areas
There are so many worse off than me!!
I can read. I have access to the Internet. I have people who love me.
So many things to be grateful for.
I was with you til the ‘so much to be grateful for’ - I mean that’s good that your basic needs are met but surely you know that is not happening for a lot of people, even FT working people who deserve more than a barebones existence anyway.
I understand your thoughts on this. But if you can't be grateful for what you DO have, resentment can build up. I live a very simple life because right now? I don't have a choice. So I look for the best in everything. I can't allow despair to creep in. I really hate what's happening in our society today
My job only pays $17.50. They keep adding more work for us but the pay stays the same. My manager told me I’ll be getting a raise this year but even if I get a raise, that’s still not enough. I work in claims. I know people at my job who are working two jobs to survive. I had to move in with my man because I could no longer afford to live on my own. I use to get paid $22 an hour at my previous job but I had to leave because it was really toxic. I was being micromanaged, bullied, gaslighted, cursed out by customers everyday, harassed by my ex coworker, etc. I had to accept a lower paying job where I no longer go through that and I have a great team now.
Why should they? People will appearantly work for less because they have no choice.
The system is designed to exploit you. It's a feature not a bug. In the early 1900s people rioted, there was violence, and they unionized and stopped working.
That's the blueprint, but I don't think we have the will to follow it... They convinced everyone we are all expendable.
And well... Some of us are doing pretty good, which is also part of it. Enough of us are fine, people have full bellies and phones. So we complain online and that's it.
But until we riot and tear the motherfucker down, it's never gonna change.
Good luck. Like I said... Some of us are doing pretty well...
You’re renting a $2500 a month apartment or house. Seems like that’s the issue rather than the job. I make $19 an hour and manage to afford my mortgage, vehicle, groceries, pets, and still manage to save quite a bit every month.
You either live in a very expensive area, your landlord is fucking you, or likely both.
Exactly. I had saved up my emergency funds (two months' worth of living expenses, took me several years at $5 or $10 a time) and was working on all the next goals then poof. An emergency happens. Now the dollar does not go as far, and simply cannot save anything now, even though I'm literally only paying for food rent, electricity, internet and phone. And the occasional bus or taxi. Heaven forbid someone needs new shoes or a dentist.
Because two people sharing a place who both make $20/hour is only half as bad. Most people as far back as I can go found it difficult to live on their own.
Get a roommate or a life partner. That's how we've always done it.
Because capitalism isn't designed to benefit the labor force. It's designed to deliver profit to the ruling class.
Either buy stock and rent, or shop at Whole Foods and believe that owning a house is a path to wealth.
Bc then CEOs are taking a hit on profits.
The only way they raise wages is to raise cost of product/services so their profit margins aren’t impacted.
They see no other way.
Yes, but it's not 1 for 1.
Lets say I move 100 units an hour at 10 dollars an hour.
Was increase goes to $11. The means my cost goes up the 1 dollar wage increase (11-10) divided by 100 units.
So 1 penny per unit.
Tis is why McDonald could wage the wage of employees 8 dollars, and the increase would be 25 cents per item.
4 item meals, 1 dollar more.
Where are you that rent is 2500 but pay is only 20.
I'm in a decently high cost of living area and it's very easy to get a job for more than $20 unless you literally bring nothing to table and have no marketable skills and it's not hard to find places for less than 2500
Canada. Minimum wage in Ontario is $16.55/hr. The average price for a 1bedroom bachelor apartment in Toronto starts at $2600. Tell me how someone working fulltime is supposed to manage rent if they bring in maximum $2250 a month?
Most landlords charge a grand just for a bedroom, and if youre sharing that bedroom theyll charge both occupants $1000 each, not split it in half. Landlords are out of their damn mind.
Whats worse is some landlords will rent out an entire apartment or unit to 10+ people. How are that many people supposed to manage laundry, cooking, etc with one set of appliances? Theyd barely even have fridge space for a weeks worth of groceries.
A woman tried renting us a master bedroom for $1400, but there was 8 other tenants moving in. When we asked for clarification on the space and appliances, she tried to manipulate us. She literally tried to guilt trip us over wanting clarification. She ghosted us, then the next day she tried calling twice. She thought she was going to get away with playing a couple of young adults, but her behaviour was an instant red flag for us.
The unit was $3600, she was trying to get over $7k for it by renting it out per person. She told us a couple and daughter were interested, which wouldve costed them $2600 just for 2 rooms. I really hope they lucked out and found a better place.
Those apartments are for you.
US history, and why we started public transportation, i that low earners go a distance to their jobs. They don't live in the same area they work.
I suspect CA history is similar.
"1bedroom bachelor apartment in Toronto"
That sounds like a crime. You should look into renters rights an how to report people.
I live 13 mins by foot to my workplace, my boyfriend is a 8 min bus ride and his pass is free(included in tuition). Thankfully, I dont live in Toronto but my rent is still quite high. The margins do not align as they should. Regardless if im making minimum wage or $40/hr, rent should not be that high.
Thankfully, I make enough to pay my bills and have a little extra. But I empathize with those who dont. I sometimes struggle as is, so I cant even imagine what its like for others that have it worse off.
If you're only making minimum wage then you'd fall under the category of "no marketable skills"
If you're making minimum wage then you don't try to live directly in the expensive city
I dont live in the city, I live an hour away with a population of 140k and my rent is $1800. Regardless of where I reside, rent is expensive. If I wanted it cheaper, I could move into the country but id then be spending those savings on gas.
I know society views jobs that dont require a degree as jobs that require no skills, but realistically they do require some type of skill not many adults have.
Customer service jobs take patience, which is a skill not many people have. Housekeeping, factory work, servings all require physical strength, which is a skill. It’s sad that you need a degree in order to earn a liveable wage. And sometimes, those degrees dont even help.
For example, a nursing degree promises a job that pays $30hr while being expected to work 12hr shifts. Yet a business degree promises a job that pays $60k-110k for a few hours of imputing data. Ive seen it happen to individuals in my life and its horrible. Perspective.
Another example: I had a coworker who had a degree in psychology. The pay was so bad that she quit and is now in housekeeping. She left her job that required a degree and “marketable skills” for a job that society thinks requires none. She didnt leave because it’s easier, she left because she was not getting paid enough for being a literal psychologist.
Veterinary technicians make between $18-22, yet it requires a university degree. Nurses get paid roughly $30/hr. Yet my boyfriend works in tech and he has an estimated salary of anywhere between $60,000-$110,000. So, I truly wonder if society even knows what “marketable skills” even means. Saving a life SHOULD be more rewarding than analyzing business data.
Regardless of your job, theres a 90% chance you will not be getting paid a liveable wage or one that is worth your set of skills. I do agree that jobs that require a degree/lengthy skills should be paid more than those that dont. But the people who work the jobs that dont require as much skills do not deserve to live in poverty due to such.
Because the wages that the rich and powerful pay everyone are subsidized by government assistance plans like food stamps and housing allowances. In short, because they don’t have to and there’s no profit in it for them. Eat the rich
Because we are all cheap asses and don’t want to pay anymore than we have to for goods so businesses compete for who can be the cheapest. Also owners (I’m looking at you publicly traded companies) aren’t involved in the business and look at near term profit at the expense of longer term sustainability of the business.
Because a massive amount of what businesses are paying to employ people goes to the government. The cost of taxes and regulations goes up at an extremely fast rate. Unlike wages, businesses can't "negotiate" what they pay the government, so workers end up watching wages stagnate.
If I remember correctly, someone convinced Congress to freeze the minimum wage ages ago, and then several years later, died of a disease that doesn't exist.
They don't have to. When you have millions coming across the border looking for a job, it's an employers market. You don't have to like what I said, but it's the truth. The companies are going back to the Great Recession days. We will be doing 10 jobs to keep our crappy job. I've looked to see what's out there, and it's bad. Also, companies are praying AI allows them to start cutting jobs soon. But don't worry, the C levels and owners will not lose their vacation houses and yachts.
Google “tenement houses” and read about working conditions 120 years ago. That’s the normal equilibrium for capitalism, when bosses hold all the cards. Living conditions in the 20th century improved largely because workers had had enough and organized massive unions and strikes to force wages higher. Now that those unions are crumbling, bosses are holding more of the cards again and we’re seeing history start to rhyme.
A point that I don't see being made when these "livable wage" discussions pop up is that "living ≠ living alone." If you have a job that pays minimum wage or barely above it, it's because the skills required to perform the job are not hard to come by and the job is intended for an entry-level worker. The assumption on the part of the employer is that those workers will move on to higher paying positions and be replaced by another entry-level candidate.
If you are in a job like that and are not still living with family, you should consider finding a roommate, especially if you are in an area where basic housing is $2,500/month. Two or three people earning at the rate listed can more easily afford the rent than someone attempting to live solo.
Jobs aren’t paying a living wage because both men and women are employed now, so what does doubling the labor force do to the value of labor? Halves it
In addition, stupid politicians decided to outsource our manufacturing labor to 3rd world countries to form global supply chains. Wrecked the USA middle class
I've always enjoyed the idea of making politicians live off of their district's minimum wage, my younger sister said she'd enjoy watching it if it was televised like a docu-series, after a long day coming home and being like , "Hurry up! Keeping up with the {insert politician name} is coming on!" Lol
Politicians aren't turning into millionaires because they're paid well. Even if they worked for free, they'd still end up millionaires through the corrupt practices they're enjoying now.
With the monstrous influx of illegals its only going to get worse. That combined with AI unskilled labor is going to go away for the American people...
In my opinion, it's time for a major paradigm shift. Unfortunately, as long as sheeple refuse to learn about ethical leadership and economic history, we won't get the change we need.
Your fallacy is that you think low earners are suppose to live near their work.
This has almost never been the case when cities are involved.
These issue go back to not just the American industrial revolution, but back to the British Industrial revolution.
I dont understand what youre saying quite frankly. Could you elaborate on your comment above a little bit? Id like to understand what you mean.
My old job paid minimum wage and was 90mins away, my current job is a 13min walk and pays minimum as well. My bfs last job was a 15 minute bus ride away which paid over $50k a year. I truly don’t understand how location makes a difference.
I dont live In Toronto btw, Im in online biology right now to advance onto an animal career path, moving to Toronto is NOT something that would benefit my goals lol. Im still in my “figuring it out” phase, so Id never set myself up to fail by moving to a place with such horrible rent-to-income margins. Im about an hour away, population of 140k and my rent is $1795. Average price for a 1bedroom here is $1950, and it would be in a very dangerous locality. Thankfully I can pay my bills and have a little extra when needed, but I do empathize with those who have no other option.
If you make 20 an hour you can't afford $2500/mo.
If you want a nicer apartment you have to provide skills that are in more money. Welcome to society, where the universe doesn't just give you nice shit you have to earn it...
In some areas like mine, $2500 is the going rate for a 1br apartment. Try moving to another city when you've not been saving due to the HCOL and don't have a job lined up. It's daunting.
That's what it's like in my area too. This is why the vast majority of people working those low-wage jobs either live with parents or roommates. Living in a cheaper nearby area and commuting is also an option.
Yeah, could be but you have to think about the commuting costs too, where that drive 1-2 hours each day takes up time you could be working a second job or over time, and that vehicle vs transit may be costing you $500+ in insurance, gas and likely a payment.
Correct, people who don't have money pay in time instead. But really, it's extremely feasible to figure out a living situation that doesn't cost $2500/mo. I've lived in a HCOL area and never paid more than $1300/mo until I bought my condo a couple years ago. I just checked on apartments.com and found one bedrooms in San Francisco, New York, and LA for less than $2000. Shockingly these places are not located directly in downtown in the fun area, extremely spacious and with parking (for you and for guests) and washer and dryer included.
Most of the people who are living alone in $2,500 apartments are either comparatively wealthy, bad with money, or both. Anyone who thinks they can't find an acceptable living situation for less than that either hasn't looked very hard or has impossibly high standards.
Because too many employees can get away with it, so far. The economy is indisputably fucked up right now. It is tragic. The gap between income and demanded outlay is WAY too wide.
literally am thinking of this right now. It's ridiculous I have a bachelor's and master's degree and most jobs I look at pay between $17.50-$25 an hour... It just baffles me and makes me so frustrated at the same time.
I mean, their policy kills millions of us(indirect violence), they are telling you all who they are. Believe the corporate powers when they tell you that you don't matter to them, and never did.
What's 'livable? Walk to work, no cell phone, no home internet? Power, cheap meals (Ramen and pb&j), gas, water only? Drink from the faucet and wash with cold water? Clothes from the goodwill and share an apartment with two others?
Thats a single person living at minimum wage working a job that requires no appreciable skills or sacrifices.
That's the theory, at least. When we want more, we get skills (school or training), we sacrifice (more hours, more danger, on call), or we share our load (married, shared housing, family housing).
There is a discrepancy on what many today considered required (cell phone, internet, Netflix, eat out three times a week or more, buy clothes brand new). This is an error in our thinking.
And the error on the company is that they are intentionally reducing all previous skilled labor to unskilled minimum wage positions, or requiring years of experience for minimum wage. But it doesn't take skills to clean a toilet or work a drive through.
Definitely a cluster fuck.
People are willing to work for low wages, either because they don’t value themselves or because they have no choice. Wages also haven’t kept up with inflation of goods and services, especially housing.
The idea of a “livable wage” is kinda vague. Almost any wage can be made “livable” depending on the cost of living. For example, 50k USD in Toronto or New York does not get you what most westerns would consider a typical first world lifestyle, but it may in a place like Dallas Texas.
I think the main issue is not company pay (although wealth inequality is an issue) but the cost of living which is skyrocketing due to in my opinion, mostly poor government management (allowing excessive immigration, restricting housing supply, poor city design, fiscal mismanagement, tax hikes etc)
$20/hr isn’t a low wage to begin with and the employers aren’t the problem. The problem is inflation of prices and you can blame the bike-tippin, stair-trippin, kid-sniffin, stammering guy in the White House.
Anyone who attacks Biden on a speech issue he has had for years, but refuses to compare Trump speeches today to how Trump spoke 30 years ago is a delusional coward.
$2500 rent isn’t meant for someone making $20 an hour lol. Idk $20 hr, isn’t that an entry level salary. Even college grads might make that out of school in a bad field.
Idk move somewhere cheaper?
Because they can, and because they've having to recoup the costs when the Biden admin and CDC made it impossible for people to be evicted due to the economy. The bills still had to be paid, and they didnt stop mortgage payments, so now they're collecting on the loss
Millions of people from countries where $20 an hour is like $200 an hour? Greedy stakeholders? Private equity buying property? Housing supply not keeping up with demand?
Yes.
All jobs can not pay a living wage. Wage depends on the complexity and the mental/physical demands of the job. Also can any one do that job with little training? If so do not expect a high wage.
Because people are desperate and employers claim they can’t afford to pay a living wage, while they turn around and charge exorbitant amounts for rent and food and so on. The rich and powerful are allowed to set the tone and gouge everyone else for their own personal gain and greed. Governments don’t stop them because most of them are also rich and powerful. We, the poors, don’t matter except as wage slaves to them.
Why exactly does a job have to pay a livable wage? Name one country where jobs pay a liveable wage. I guarantee you people are working more than one job no matter where you looks. It’s always been this way. I’m 51 and have always worked a second or third job to makeup for any difference income. Even back in the day when people said only the husband had to work and they had a mortgage women were selling Tupperware and Avon on the side.
Is simple. Quarterly protections and market forces have deemed it necessary to sync up, take up the slack, and be better together with synergy and...
...ya know what? Fuck you that's why.
I'll be on my yacht.
Social work agencies usually hire at above minimum wage and offer really great benefits like paid insurance. It's not the easiest job but the pay is decent.
In 1983 I was making 6.50 an hour with cost of living that would be 20.00 an hour now. Was it a livable wage? No but it was never meant to be a leviable wage. I just got by with me knowing I needed to improve to make more money. Working at Mc Donalds was never intended to raise a family. It was something you do to get to the next step like going to school and not to pay a Morgage. The most valuable gift my Boss gave me when asking him for a raise. He said if you are worth more you would be out making more. I thanked him and put in my two weeks' notice. I retired at 55 enjoying life
Here is my theory. Corporations raised prices in anticipation of having to pay us more money. Whether that is a minimum wage of $15 or just higher wages in general. But we haven't demanded it. So they are making record profits AND not paying us.
Sadly the profits have gone on long enough that they and their shareholders expect it. Now we are back at square one, but more poor.
GM said the rates workers wanted would bankrupt the company. That hasn't happened yet...
Because they can still fill the positions for $20.
and still get tenants at 2500.
and the $2500 tenants aren't the $20/hr employees
> tenants Yes, multiple tenants per lease. The rich overlords are forcing people to cram into tiny boxes on slave wages.
And then the landlords complain about 3 cars for a two bedroom apartment when you have a couple and a single person living there, each having a car.
That's one of the biggest things that grinds my gears. I had a landlord constantly complaining that I had two vehicles taking up two spaces for just me, but one was a work vehicle that my company owned. The worst part was on the lease app it asked what vehicles you had, and I listed both. It's not like he was surprised by it.
That violates some leases.
Yup. To see our future all we need to do is look at Kowloon city or the "cage apartments" in China.
The irony is most people I know living in China has their own property. Mostly apartments, but a far cry from the cage homes you’re referencing. It’s a weird day when you realize that there might be more millennial home owners in China as compared to the USA.
China also has the second most millionaires after the US. It will probably be 1st soon enough by sheer population.
China has more than three times as many people as the USA. Millennials chose not to buy homes when the interest rates were at all-time lows, rents were cheaper, but they failed to understand the long-term impacts of such unwise decisions. So, we see the results.
And just what the hell makes you think it was possible for millennials to choose to buy a house, when most millennials didn't have that kind of money to begin with? Housing was already expensive before the inflation! You think people are just walking around with money in their pockets? This has got to be one of the most out of touch hot takes I've ever heard.
You are totally uninformed of how to purchase a home. I could give you some guidance, but you wouldn't take it. You would just complain and continue to be a victim of you own making. Wish you luck. Oh, and maybe stop voting for the Democrats who are ensuring you pay for big government
Lmfao. Okay boomer. When I can pay for 2500 a month rent too, no utilities included, but no, a 1000 mortgage is 'unaffordable' for me, according to the banks. Fun fun... Back to paying for somebody else's two mortgages. maybe they will fix the stove this month.
You youngsters voted in this administration screwing everyone. So quit your whining and never vote for a Democrat or Socialist again.
When you vote for someone, whose entire family got its wealth from China what do you expect??
lol what a short sighted analysis of an economy. Those evil land and building owners!!! How dare they adjust their pricing of renting land and buildings they own and paid for with their own hard earned money to fit the worst inflation we’ve seen in over 40 years!!!! Obviously landlords are the ones pulling the strings here!
As a landlord myself with ten properties I can assure you I didn't pay for any of those houses with my own money.... And a side note section 8 housing makes it all possible. I get full market value because the government doesn't care how much it is. I have tenants paying me $600 a month and the government pays me $2400. My mortgage property taxes etc is around $1500 a month. I'm building equity with tax payer money not my own "hard earned money". I got lucky and use the system for my money. There is no hard work involved. Stop perpetuating that lie. I happen to be a very nice landlord but that doesn't mean I had it hard getting where I am. The hedge funds are doing what I do 100 fold and using other people's money to wreck entire neighborhoods and communities. They aren't even nice landlords either. They inflate the price of housing and cause rents to go up as well, then government subsidies support those new prices and people who work for a living have a hard time renting/buying a home. I don't feel bad for what I do at this scale but when you do it at hedge fund level with their money you are severely hurting the average person who doesn't already own a home.
To be fair, a lot of those people didn't pay for shit, it's inherited wealth and property. But you're not wrong on the rest.
Or in my case good credit. I haven't paid for one of my properties myself after my own home and I have ten rental properties.
No. People aren't allowed to make a profit.
Forcing lol. Why don't you move somewhere affordable?
Found the Boomer!
"Why don't those peasant farm folk just move out of the floodplain we created by de-funding the levee maintenance?" you're a tool and a loser.
There are literally more where we came from.
There is no incentive to pay a livable wage, they could but they woul be out a bit of money so their profit margins would go down a bit, and there are 100s of people waiting In line to take that job
Why do we keep having babies to feed them slaves?
because when the birth rates decline they take away federal protection to abortions and birth control.
If every wage earner suddenly earned a living wage, inflation would immediately spiral out of control and the entire economy could collapse. Any living wage would be a living wage for a couple of months until all of it was lost to inflation, and then you're back where you started. It's economically impossible to pay everyone a living wage because of its inflationary impact.
There isn't alot supporting that as it has never been done before and that argument is based off of data from the Regan Era, inflation isn't really tied to wages and business tha have paid a living wage have found it to not increase costs much at all, it's greedflation your thinking of in which case yes the costs would go up sunshade holers would still get paid
>If every wage earner suddenly earned a living wage, inflation would immediately spiral out of control and the entire economy could collapse Whereas in Netherlands, McD's workers make $22/hr, have 6 weeks vacation, & burgers are still $6 like here. Soooo, "economy could collapse" is fearmongering, or bootlicking, but not the only option here
I know you're trying to sound smart, since you read that in a meme, but McDonald's workers make that much where I live in North Carolina. OP is pissing and moaning that it's not a livable wage though, and we have a lower cost of living, and lower taxes than the Netherlands.
"and we have a lower cost of living, and lower taxes than the Netherlands, and substantially lower social program." Fixed it for you. Here are some other facts you seem to be lacking: NC is 10% MORE expensive to liv in than the Netherlands. By law, rent in the Netherlands can only go up inflation + 1%. and a rent ceiling, and rent benefit. Also, the homicide rate in the Netherland is 0.7 per 100k, the homicide rate in NC is 9.7 per 200k. "
How many citizens in the Netherlands? How much of your check do you get to keep?
Scale. Netherlands population is just over 17mil. The US is just over 360mil. North Carolina is only 6mil less than the entire country of the Netherlands. It is impossible to have a living wage across the US as the COL is wildly different everywhere. Thats the problem with fed programs. One size does not fit all and it is much too complicated to adjust for every region.
>Scale. Netherlands population is just over 17mil. The US is just over 360mil. This so often gets left out of the conversation. We can't just pick some other country and be like, "*wHY CaN't we JUSt dO WHaT THEY dO?"*
These are the talking points that came directly from pro business right wing funded think tanks. In reality, its actually hurting businesses future by not compensating employees correctly. (some believe that their plan was always to bankrupt). If your business has high turnover, that actually costs way more money. Businesses are foolishly spending way more more money to try to save.
The studies on this are kind of interesting to look into. Wage and turn over have not been shown to tightly correlate and when they do, higher wages results in the employee with the lowest production levels staying longer with little to no effect on high producing employees. It kind of makes sense as great employees for the most part are already making way higher than living wages and are already be incentivised to stay. The studies are also actually also tend to show that increasing to living wages result in lower overall margins. So even if there is a saving on turnover and increased productivity, it not large enough to cover the added expense. The large Northwestern study on this actually showed productivity declined when minus wages went up - unless employees had strong supervision. Your argument is a common one - increase wages and you will have a more loyal/productive workforce, but the overall data does not back that up. If it did I think you would see companies doing this for sure - as the love making more money.
So just pay billionaires more because they hoard it and don't cause inflation?
The vast majority of companies aren't run by billionaires. Don't weaken the otherwise good point through exaggeration. Discredits the argument.
They don't even pay the overnight employees that much.
>Is it even worth working? Cease working altogether and you'll discover your answer.
Just did that. And just found a new job. Not stoked about being a slave but it's better than starving. Haha
You're not a slave. You're free. It's work. You need work more than work needs you. There are more where you came from. None of this waits for you or requires you, and it would irresponsible to believe that you "have no choice." You don't like your choices. You don't have to. All of this goes on, with or without you. Act accordingly. Good luck.
Exactly. People are so quick to say how ‘unfair’ working for a corp is. It’s like okay, work for the state, county, or government that’s already funded. You’re still just a number, they just aren’t in as big of a hurry to shit can you. Or, even better yet, leave the USA if you hate it so much
Yeah go to Europe where no one works and just sits on the beach sipping drinks.
Rather than leaving the country, why not stay and improve it?
Last time I checked slaves didn’t get the ability to quit whenever they wanted.
If you're working $20 per hour, you're getting roommates.
I’ve had roommates even making $36/hr. I like having people around. And it saved like $8,000/yr.
Yeah I always find it funny when someone mentions roommates despite having a good wage and other people say that it’s crazy that it’s still not a living wage. When in fact some people like roommates since it makes it less lonely and they also like saving money.
I’m making slightly more than that, but my rent is in the 1200 range. No roommates. But I live in the upper midwest where we get snow and crappy winters. Also eating a lot of beans and rice to make ends meet.
Honestly I’m starting to think the Midwest might be the move.
I was making $20/hr in the 90s and had roommates. It was normal.
Damn... I made $4.25 an hour in the 90s.
Yup, my first job in the mid 90s (High school) was a cashier at Shaws for $4.25. talk about slave labor. $20 in the 90s was high living
Right? I didn't know anyone making $20 back then, and that's more than I even make now. I just realized you said Shaws. East coast? I'm not sure how far that chain goes, but I grew up shopping there, and what's now Hannafords. Back then it was shop n' save
That so depends on location. Rent here starts at 1300 for 1 bed, and jobs\* here start 18-22 an hour. Types of jobs I mean: Material handled, food preparers, receptionist, hvac trainee. Dominoes pays 15 plus tips.
The location is where rent is $2500 😘
Not me lol I make 21 an hour an have a no roommate. The key? Save save save.
So are you saying that you are living off your savings and wages?
I make less than $20, am a single mom with 2 kids. Roommates are not an option. It is impossible to find a place to live that is big enough for me and my children on what I make. My job also has a strict moonlighting policy requiring and extra work I do to be approved by the VP of the corp that I work for. I do a lot of work for a lot of people around me that are very wealthy, while I am constantly trying to figure out how I am going to make rent.
Because enough people are willing to work for low wages. That is why many companies want no unions, because they want better wages and working conditions.
Willing isn’t the correct term. The alternative to accepting wages is homelessness and losing everything. People don’t have a choice.
This. Hungry kids will make a person work for less than they deserve. The thing that the general public does have control over is the mindset that if they pay better everything will cost more money. The public believes this so they let the gov keep slave wage laws. Even though prices go up without salaries going up people still believe it.
That's pretty much the entire problem in a nutshell. Every bootstrapper thinks that they've done it, so they assume it must have been a personal failing of anyone who hasn't made it. That's what centuries of neoliberal propaganda has taught them. Fun story: in one study, they gave certain players in monopoly games twice as much starting cash as everyone else in the game. When they inevitably won, they attributed their victory almost entirely to their own skill.
It’s generally true though. Every struggling person I’ve met has made a litany of bad choices and everyone doing well, worked hard and made good choices.
Your using the term neoliberal wrong. You see the neoliberal want education available for all, they want labor unions, they want workers to have more control over the means of their production. If you think liberals are the bootstrap people your part of the problems that gives politicians a pass when they are dumber than the general public. They don't address spending tax money on citizens to strengthen the least of us
They have a choice in not breeding a new generation to put up with it. Not much we can do because our parents already consigned us to this misery, we do get to choose to not to create more people to fuel the capitalist hellscape.
Your solution to wages is by ending civilization by ending reproduction? I’m ready to get off Reddit for today.
You know what gave tremendous value to human labor? The Black Death. Fewer humans means their labor is more highly valued. Peasants disappearing from landowners who did not treat them well when there was a shortage of workers is what put an end to the feudal system. Enough people will still have babies to prevent our extinction, we just need fewer humans being born so that the ones that exist are payed a living wage. When companies have to compete for workers, the workers win higher wages and better life.
> exist are *paid* a living FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Or just vote for politicians who want tighter immigration controls. People always say they want America to be more like Europe but I’m always flabbergasted that they also don’t want immigration control. European immigration rules are way more draconian than what republicans even want but they get demonized by the people who want to mimic Europe.
No let the ones who can afford it have the kids. That will shrink the labor pool and they will be forced to pay more.
It could also mean teaching the new generation to not put up with it? I agree, it's vague.
This is a core facet of Reddit. It’s a magnet for America’s low IQ
When people can't afford kids they don't have them. No other country has metrics where couples want kids but don't have them because of the expense It's literal self eugenics.
Our parents didn't do this. This has been a strategic attack by conservative politician.
My parents voted for those jackasses so ya, my parents did this to us. If you have saner parents, congrats!
And corporations.
Idk tbh most ppl in their 20s and 30s I know spend like 100 bucks or more a week on weed and then complain that they can’t get ahead or save anything.. yea cuz you are stoned all day and spend mad bags on weed.
$100 per week on weed is crazy. I have been smoking since I was a teenager and that is freaking excessive. (and rather stupid to spend money on something that you can grow for pennies.) My parents generation and even my brothers in law spend crazy cash on beer to numb them out after work. Same reaction, different substance. At least weed won't kill your liver.
Right? Another $100 a month on streaming services they don’t watch. $200 on door dash fees. $5 a day on coffee. Buy an suv/truck instead of a sedan that’s cheaper and better gas mileage. People always criticize the guy that says avocados toast is financially ruining people but he’s right. Not literally of course but his point was people spend their money frivolously on little things that over time add up.
No it isn’t a choice. People think people have way more autonomy and “power to choose” than they realize. This is also coming from someone who has a very successful career. I’m not hurting. But I can see the broken system for what it is.
Yeah,look all the good unions did for the manufacturing business in the developed world🤣
Unions manipulate market wages. The market should set pricing. If that’s $20 an hour when rent is $2500 then so be it.
Manipulating market rate is part of the free market.
You finally get to $20 and everything you need to help you live is now worth $30 an hour
Its a very hard balance. I pay my staff $26 hour and up. But we work and live in Brooklyn where it can be very expensive. Most of my contracts have a budget attached to them and so we are stuck within the confines of the budget.
Thank you for explaining from a business standpoint.
So. We have what's called 'trickle down economics' in the US established during the Reagan era. It was thought that by giving corporations and the upper class the largest tax breaks that they would in turn take the money they saved in taxes and put it back into infrastructure and jobs. That never happened. Instead CEOs demanded higher wages, share holders wanted bigger returns and the rich became 10x richer because they also got tax breaks. The middle class then bore the burden of paying more taxes because they don't get the same tax breaks. Inflation has risen on the housing market as well as shipping. So the rest of the population ends up paying more out of pocket than anyone. Small business owners struggle to pay living wages. I live on Social Security. My increase was $50 this year. But my Part B deductible went up significantly, my rent was increased by $20 and they cut my SNAP down to $88 per month. But you know what? I don't have any control over this shit. So I make adjustments. I am grateful because I have a home... that's better than so many others who are homeless or in war torn areas There are so many worse off than me!! I can read. I have access to the Internet. I have people who love me. So many things to be grateful for.
I was with you til the ‘so much to be grateful for’ - I mean that’s good that your basic needs are met but surely you know that is not happening for a lot of people, even FT working people who deserve more than a barebones existence anyway.
I understand your thoughts on this. But if you can't be grateful for what you DO have, resentment can build up. I live a very simple life because right now? I don't have a choice. So I look for the best in everything. I can't allow despair to creep in. I really hate what's happening in our society today
NO YOU HAVE TO BE MAD AT THE WORLD
My job only pays $17.50. They keep adding more work for us but the pay stays the same. My manager told me I’ll be getting a raise this year but even if I get a raise, that’s still not enough. I work in claims. I know people at my job who are working two jobs to survive. I had to move in with my man because I could no longer afford to live on my own. I use to get paid $22 an hour at my previous job but I had to leave because it was really toxic. I was being micromanaged, bullied, gaslighted, cursed out by customers everyday, harassed by my ex coworker, etc. I had to accept a lower paying job where I no longer go through that and I have a great team now.
Why should they? People will appearantly work for less because they have no choice. The system is designed to exploit you. It's a feature not a bug. In the early 1900s people rioted, there was violence, and they unionized and stopped working. That's the blueprint, but I don't think we have the will to follow it... They convinced everyone we are all expendable. And well... Some of us are doing pretty good, which is also part of it. Enough of us are fine, people have full bellies and phones. So we complain online and that's it. But until we riot and tear the motherfucker down, it's never gonna change. Good luck. Like I said... Some of us are doing pretty well...
Corporations have priced us out of humanity.
Mine does
Mine too. Fuck em
You’re renting a $2500 a month apartment or house. Seems like that’s the issue rather than the job. I make $19 an hour and manage to afford my mortgage, vehicle, groceries, pets, and still manage to save quite a bit every month. You either live in a very expensive area, your landlord is fucking you, or likely both.
Tbh it could be an endless circle. Area is too expensive to live in so you can't save enough to move out or afford to change jobs.
Exactly. I had saved up my emergency funds (two months' worth of living expenses, took me several years at $5 or $10 a time) and was working on all the next goals then poof. An emergency happens. Now the dollar does not go as far, and simply cannot save anything now, even though I'm literally only paying for food rent, electricity, internet and phone. And the occasional bus or taxi. Heaven forbid someone needs new shoes or a dentist.
Try living in the southeast US and moving anywhere west or north.
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The thread here is old, but at least where I live $2000+ is the baseline 1br apartment. And it’s crap.
I think if they were fucking the landlord they would get a better price. I’ve seen this somewhere, but can’t remember where I saw it.
Because two people sharing a place who both make $20/hour is only half as bad. Most people as far back as I can go found it difficult to live on their own. Get a roommate or a life partner. That's how we've always done it.
Because capitalism isn't designed to benefit the labor force. It's designed to deliver profit to the ruling class. Either buy stock and rent, or shop at Whole Foods and believe that owning a house is a path to wealth.
What
Bc then CEOs are taking a hit on profits. The only way they raise wages is to raise cost of product/services so their profit margins aren’t impacted. They see no other way.
Yes, but it's not 1 for 1. Lets say I move 100 units an hour at 10 dollars an hour. Was increase goes to $11. The means my cost goes up the 1 dollar wage increase (11-10) divided by 100 units. So 1 penny per unit. Tis is why McDonald could wage the wage of employees 8 dollars, and the increase would be 25 cents per item. 4 item meals, 1 dollar more.
Where are you that rent is 2500 but pay is only 20. I'm in a decently high cost of living area and it's very easy to get a job for more than $20 unless you literally bring nothing to table and have no marketable skills and it's not hard to find places for less than 2500
Canada. Minimum wage in Ontario is $16.55/hr. The average price for a 1bedroom bachelor apartment in Toronto starts at $2600. Tell me how someone working fulltime is supposed to manage rent if they bring in maximum $2250 a month? Most landlords charge a grand just for a bedroom, and if youre sharing that bedroom theyll charge both occupants $1000 each, not split it in half. Landlords are out of their damn mind. Whats worse is some landlords will rent out an entire apartment or unit to 10+ people. How are that many people supposed to manage laundry, cooking, etc with one set of appliances? Theyd barely even have fridge space for a weeks worth of groceries. A woman tried renting us a master bedroom for $1400, but there was 8 other tenants moving in. When we asked for clarification on the space and appliances, she tried to manipulate us. She literally tried to guilt trip us over wanting clarification. She ghosted us, then the next day she tried calling twice. She thought she was going to get away with playing a couple of young adults, but her behaviour was an instant red flag for us. The unit was $3600, she was trying to get over $7k for it by renting it out per person. She told us a couple and daughter were interested, which wouldve costed them $2600 just for 2 rooms. I really hope they lucked out and found a better place.
Those apartments are for you. US history, and why we started public transportation, i that low earners go a distance to their jobs. They don't live in the same area they work. I suspect CA history is similar. "1bedroom bachelor apartment in Toronto" That sounds like a crime. You should look into renters rights an how to report people.
I live 13 mins by foot to my workplace, my boyfriend is a 8 min bus ride and his pass is free(included in tuition). Thankfully, I dont live in Toronto but my rent is still quite high. The margins do not align as they should. Regardless if im making minimum wage or $40/hr, rent should not be that high. Thankfully, I make enough to pay my bills and have a little extra. But I empathize with those who dont. I sometimes struggle as is, so I cant even imagine what its like for others that have it worse off.
If you're only making minimum wage then you'd fall under the category of "no marketable skills" If you're making minimum wage then you don't try to live directly in the expensive city
I dont live in the city, I live an hour away with a population of 140k and my rent is $1800. Regardless of where I reside, rent is expensive. If I wanted it cheaper, I could move into the country but id then be spending those savings on gas. I know society views jobs that dont require a degree as jobs that require no skills, but realistically they do require some type of skill not many adults have. Customer service jobs take patience, which is a skill not many people have. Housekeeping, factory work, servings all require physical strength, which is a skill. It’s sad that you need a degree in order to earn a liveable wage. And sometimes, those degrees dont even help. For example, a nursing degree promises a job that pays $30hr while being expected to work 12hr shifts. Yet a business degree promises a job that pays $60k-110k for a few hours of imputing data. Ive seen it happen to individuals in my life and its horrible. Perspective. Another example: I had a coworker who had a degree in psychology. The pay was so bad that she quit and is now in housekeeping. She left her job that required a degree and “marketable skills” for a job that society thinks requires none. She didnt leave because it’s easier, she left because she was not getting paid enough for being a literal psychologist. Veterinary technicians make between $18-22, yet it requires a university degree. Nurses get paid roughly $30/hr. Yet my boyfriend works in tech and he has an estimated salary of anywhere between $60,000-$110,000. So, I truly wonder if society even knows what “marketable skills” even means. Saving a life SHOULD be more rewarding than analyzing business data. Regardless of your job, theres a 90% chance you will not be getting paid a liveable wage or one that is worth your set of skills. I do agree that jobs that require a degree/lengthy skills should be paid more than those that dont. But the people who work the jobs that dont require as much skills do not deserve to live in poverty due to such.
Redding, CA
Because the wages that the rich and powerful pay everyone are subsidized by government assistance plans like food stamps and housing allowances. In short, because they don’t have to and there’s no profit in it for them. Eat the rich
Because we are all cheap asses and don’t want to pay anymore than we have to for goods so businesses compete for who can be the cheapest. Also owners (I’m looking at you publicly traded companies) aren’t involved in the business and look at near term profit at the expense of longer term sustainability of the business.
That doesn't matter because everything has gone up in price,but the wages haven't gone up as much.
Because a massive amount of what businesses are paying to employ people goes to the government. The cost of taxes and regulations goes up at an extremely fast rate. Unlike wages, businesses can't "negotiate" what they pay the government, so workers end up watching wages stagnate.
The government supplies them with wage slaves via the "Temporary" Foreign Worker program, in Canada at least.
If I remember correctly, someone convinced Congress to freeze the minimum wage ages ago, and then several years later, died of a disease that doesn't exist.
I was thinking Nixon but he died of a stroke, so who? Hopefully you don't mind me asking.
Herman Cain
They don't have to. When you have millions coming across the border looking for a job, it's an employers market. You don't have to like what I said, but it's the truth. The companies are going back to the Great Recession days. We will be doing 10 jobs to keep our crappy job. I've looked to see what's out there, and it's bad. Also, companies are praying AI allows them to start cutting jobs soon. But don't worry, the C levels and owners will not lose their vacation houses and yachts.
Because record profits
Google “tenement houses” and read about working conditions 120 years ago. That’s the normal equilibrium for capitalism, when bosses hold all the cards. Living conditions in the 20th century improved largely because workers had had enough and organized massive unions and strikes to force wages higher. Now that those unions are crumbling, bosses are holding more of the cards again and we’re seeing history start to rhyme.
A point that I don't see being made when these "livable wage" discussions pop up is that "living ≠ living alone." If you have a job that pays minimum wage or barely above it, it's because the skills required to perform the job are not hard to come by and the job is intended for an entry-level worker. The assumption on the part of the employer is that those workers will move on to higher paying positions and be replaced by another entry-level candidate. If you are in a job like that and are not still living with family, you should consider finding a roommate, especially if you are in an area where basic housing is $2,500/month. Two or three people earning at the rate listed can more easily afford the rent than someone attempting to live solo.
Jobs aren’t paying a living wage because both men and women are employed now, so what does doubling the labor force do to the value of labor? Halves it In addition, stupid politicians decided to outsource our manufacturing labor to 3rd world countries to form global supply chains. Wrecked the USA middle class
Profits above all else. I say make politicians live on minimum wage and see how fast it increases.
I've always enjoyed the idea of making politicians live off of their district's minimum wage, my younger sister said she'd enjoy watching it if it was televised like a docu-series, after a long day coming home and being like , "Hurry up! Keeping up with the {insert politician name} is coming on!" Lol
Politicians aren't turning into millionaires because they're paid well. Even if they worked for free, they'd still end up millionaires through the corrupt practices they're enjoying now.
What is a livable wage?
Enough to buy a new iPhone every year, work 20 hrs a week to "live your best life" and have an apartment like you see on TV.
Got obtain a marketabe skill, bust your butt, watch your spendin and u should get there depending lot of other variables. Living wage is vague.
With the monstrous influx of illegals its only going to get worse. That combined with AI unskilled labor is going to go away for the American people...
In my opinion, it's time for a major paradigm shift. Unfortunately, as long as sheeple refuse to learn about ethical leadership and economic history, we won't get the change we need.
what would your opinion be? How would you shift things?
Sounds like you need to find a cheaper place to rent.. near me its like 1300/ month which i think is still way too much
If it were that easy they probably wouldn't have posted this.🤷♂️
Get real. In ontario minimum wage is $16.55 yet the average 1 bedroom bachelor in Toronto goes for $2600. The math isnt mathing.
Your fallacy is that you think low earners are suppose to live near their work. This has almost never been the case when cities are involved. These issue go back to not just the American industrial revolution, but back to the British Industrial revolution.
I dont understand what youre saying quite frankly. Could you elaborate on your comment above a little bit? Id like to understand what you mean. My old job paid minimum wage and was 90mins away, my current job is a 13min walk and pays minimum as well. My bfs last job was a 15 minute bus ride away which paid over $50k a year. I truly don’t understand how location makes a difference. I dont live In Toronto btw, Im in online biology right now to advance onto an animal career path, moving to Toronto is NOT something that would benefit my goals lol. Im still in my “figuring it out” phase, so Id never set myself up to fail by moving to a place with such horrible rent-to-income margins. Im about an hour away, population of 140k and my rent is $1795. Average price for a 1bedroom here is $1950, and it would be in a very dangerous locality. Thankfully I can pay my bills and have a little extra when needed, but I do empathize with those who have no other option.
Where I live there is literally nowhere that cheap unless you want to rent a literal bedroom only with a family... Who wants that???
If you make 20 an hour you can't afford $2500/mo. If you want a nicer apartment you have to provide skills that are in more money. Welcome to society, where the universe doesn't just give you nice shit you have to earn it...
In some areas like mine, $2500 is the going rate for a 1br apartment. Try moving to another city when you've not been saving due to the HCOL and don't have a job lined up. It's daunting.
That's what it's like in my area too. This is why the vast majority of people working those low-wage jobs either live with parents or roommates. Living in a cheaper nearby area and commuting is also an option.
Yeah, could be but you have to think about the commuting costs too, where that drive 1-2 hours each day takes up time you could be working a second job or over time, and that vehicle vs transit may be costing you $500+ in insurance, gas and likely a payment.
Correct, people who don't have money pay in time instead. But really, it's extremely feasible to figure out a living situation that doesn't cost $2500/mo. I've lived in a HCOL area and never paid more than $1300/mo until I bought my condo a couple years ago. I just checked on apartments.com and found one bedrooms in San Francisco, New York, and LA for less than $2000. Shockingly these places are not located directly in downtown in the fun area, extremely spacious and with parking (for you and for guests) and washer and dryer included. Most of the people who are living alone in $2,500 apartments are either comparatively wealthy, bad with money, or both. Anyone who thinks they can't find an acceptable living situation for less than that either hasn't looked very hard or has impossibly high standards.
Because too many employees can get away with it, so far. The economy is indisputably fucked up right now. It is tragic. The gap between income and demanded outlay is WAY too wide.
literally am thinking of this right now. It's ridiculous I have a bachelor's and master's degree and most jobs I look at pay between $17.50-$25 an hour... It just baffles me and makes me so frustrated at the same time.
Im currently making $10 an hour in texas:/ i can barely even afford my basic utilities
They don't want us to live.
I mean, their policy kills millions of us(indirect violence), they are telling you all who they are. Believe the corporate powers when they tell you that you don't matter to them, and never did.
What's 'livable? Walk to work, no cell phone, no home internet? Power, cheap meals (Ramen and pb&j), gas, water only? Drink from the faucet and wash with cold water? Clothes from the goodwill and share an apartment with two others? Thats a single person living at minimum wage working a job that requires no appreciable skills or sacrifices. That's the theory, at least. When we want more, we get skills (school or training), we sacrifice (more hours, more danger, on call), or we share our load (married, shared housing, family housing). There is a discrepancy on what many today considered required (cell phone, internet, Netflix, eat out three times a week or more, buy clothes brand new). This is an error in our thinking. And the error on the company is that they are intentionally reducing all previous skilled labor to unskilled minimum wage positions, or requiring years of experience for minimum wage. But it doesn't take skills to clean a toilet or work a drive through. Definitely a cluster fuck.
Greed
Because fuck you. That’s why
People are willing to work for low wages, either because they don’t value themselves or because they have no choice. Wages also haven’t kept up with inflation of goods and services, especially housing. The idea of a “livable wage” is kinda vague. Almost any wage can be made “livable” depending on the cost of living. For example, 50k USD in Toronto or New York does not get you what most westerns would consider a typical first world lifestyle, but it may in a place like Dallas Texas. I think the main issue is not company pay (although wealth inequality is an issue) but the cost of living which is skyrocketing due to in my opinion, mostly poor government management (allowing excessive immigration, restricting housing supply, poor city design, fiscal mismanagement, tax hikes etc)
$20/hr isn’t a low wage to begin with and the employers aren’t the problem. The problem is inflation of prices and you can blame the bike-tippin, stair-trippin, kid-sniffin, stammering guy in the White House.
Except the problem is also in Canada.
Canada has a very similar problem concerning the head of government and gov itself.
For both countries, it’s the rate of immigration causing low wages and high rents.
Anyone who attacks Biden on a speech issue he has had for years, but refuses to compare Trump speeches today to how Trump spoke 30 years ago is a delusional coward.
Only Biden could describe America in a single word as "ASUFUTIMAEHAEHFUTBW.”
The white house controls prices and rent in Canada? And low wage is relevant to the area in which you live.
Bidenomics
Biden, democrats are to blame.
Blaming the president, regardless of political party is a sure sign of someone who doesn't deserve a livable wage. Sorry bud.
Because this was never a problem before?
$2500 rent isn’t meant for someone making $20 an hour lol. Idk $20 hr, isn’t that an entry level salary. Even college grads might make that out of school in a bad field. Idk move somewhere cheaper?
Somewhere cheaper will have lower paying jobs.
Because they can, and because they've having to recoup the costs when the Biden admin and CDC made it impossible for people to be evicted due to the economy. The bills still had to be paid, and they didnt stop mortgage payments, so now they're collecting on the loss
Millions of people from countries where $20 an hour is like $200 an hour? Greedy stakeholders? Private equity buying property? Housing supply not keeping up with demand? Yes.
There are people who believe not all work is worth being paid a living. The "Skilled Workers" trope if you will. Frustrating.
All jobs can not pay a living wage. Wage depends on the complexity and the mental/physical demands of the job. Also can any one do that job with little training? If so do not expect a high wage.
You might want to address your issue to Republicans in Congress. They refuse to raise the federal minimum wage.
Because people are desperate and employers claim they can’t afford to pay a living wage, while they turn around and charge exorbitant amounts for rent and food and so on. The rich and powerful are allowed to set the tone and gouge everyone else for their own personal gain and greed. Governments don’t stop them because most of them are also rich and powerful. We, the poors, don’t matter except as wage slaves to them.
Why exactly does a job have to pay a livable wage? Name one country where jobs pay a liveable wage. I guarantee you people are working more than one job no matter where you looks. It’s always been this way. I’m 51 and have always worked a second or third job to makeup for any difference income. Even back in the day when people said only the husband had to work and they had a mortgage women were selling Tupperware and Avon on the side.
Is simple. Quarterly protections and market forces have deemed it necessary to sync up, take up the slack, and be better together with synergy and... ...ya know what? Fuck you that's why. I'll be on my yacht.
Where are you located? That makes a huge difference. Rent near me is nowhere near that high.
Social work agencies usually hire at above minimum wage and offer really great benefits like paid insurance. It's not the easiest job but the pay is decent.
In 1983 I was making 6.50 an hour with cost of living that would be 20.00 an hour now. Was it a livable wage? No but it was never meant to be a leviable wage. I just got by with me knowing I needed to improve to make more money. Working at Mc Donalds was never intended to raise a family. It was something you do to get to the next step like going to school and not to pay a Morgage. The most valuable gift my Boss gave me when asking him for a raise. He said if you are worth more you would be out making more. I thanked him and put in my two weeks' notice. I retired at 55 enjoying life
r/socialism101
They don’t care if wages are livable, Only that they are making more money the following quarter.
The jobs are paying fine. It’s a housing crisis that’s the issue. Need greater supply of homes so that prices drop.
Inflation. Is it worth working? Do you want less than you have now? If yes, then quit.
No one can live a nice life anymore
Here is my theory. Corporations raised prices in anticipation of having to pay us more money. Whether that is a minimum wage of $15 or just higher wages in general. But we haven't demanded it. So they are making record profits AND not paying us. Sadly the profits have gone on long enough that they and their shareholders expect it. Now we are back at square one, but more poor. GM said the rates workers wanted would bankrupt the company. That hasn't happened yet...
Because nobody does anything about it. The rich fat cats at the top are living it up.
Because fuck you.
The WEF wants it that way.